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Active: 677 users

[G] Judging a Melee Map

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-09 14:22:02
September 24 2012 16:28 GMT
#1
--- Nuked ---
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
September 24 2012 16:35 GMT
#2
If you're wondering, I'm doing UMS/Arcade mapmaking now

omg teeeach me
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
myRZeth
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1047 Posts
September 24 2012 17:23 GMT
#3
oh wow
good "red suture"
i m not sure whether this explains what i mean^^
BongChambers
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada591 Posts
September 24 2012 17:47 GMT
#4
Maps are quite frankly top 3 most important things about SC2 or BW or quite frankly any RTS, its the battle feild in which all your battles take places, just ask any General or commanding officer how important knowing the Terrain and layout of the battleground is.

Gotta love MapMakers that really put time and effort into everything about thier map rather then just "ooo 4 base map and pretty doodads all over the place "
420
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
September 24 2012 18:05 GMT
#5
On September 25 2012 02:47 BongChambers wrote:
Maps are quite frankly top 3 most important things about SC2 or BW or quite frankly any RTS, its the battle feild in which all your battles take places, just ask any General or commanding officer how important knowing the Terrain and layout of the battleground is.

Gotta love MapMakers that really put time and effort into everything about thier map rather then just "ooo 4 base map and pretty doodads all over the place "


Hahaha I guess my maps don't get enough exposure
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
September 24 2012 19:57 GMT
#6
This is a big read, and quite a good one. I could definitely see this helping just about everyone, but even more so the beginners out there. Sticky it, perhaps?
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10143 Posts
September 24 2012 20:04 GMT
#7
7: Thirds
FlaShFTW: Does he approve?
a) if yes, good third.
b) if no, bad third. Improve

good list :D
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
September 24 2012 20:30 GMT
#8
Awesome post. Why aren't you a motm judge again?
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
September 25 2012 02:40 GMT
#9
--- Nuked ---
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 02:48:36
September 25 2012 02:46 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 02:47:38
September 25 2012 02:47 GMT
#11
tldr; play the map before judging it


good job barrin
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
GT350
Profile Joined May 2012
United States270 Posts
September 25 2012 03:45 GMT
#12
Great job with this!
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
September 25 2012 04:11 GMT
#13
But these are also useful for how to judge your own map during its construction and provide some useful vocabulary for talking about maps and giving feedback after you have played on somebody else's map.

Very concise, as large as it is.

I'll spend some time thinking about whether you've missed anything this weekend.
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
September 25 2012 04:37 GMT
#14
The only I think you've missed is- What makes this map special? What maps the map different from the other maps in the map pool? What was the motivation behind making it? What gameplay does it feature?

All of these questions are asking about the map concept. Its what kind of gameplay you are trying to emphasize. Maybe the map addresses something in the metagame, like early Protoss third bases. Or the static three/four base layout that we see so often. Basically, there should be some purpose to the map, even if its something as simple as a learning map (developing editor skills) or to be perfectly balanced.
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
September 25 2012 05:52 GMT
#15
On September 25 2012 13:37 monitor wrote:
The only I think you've missed is- What makes this map special? What maps the map different from the other maps in the map pool? What was the motivation behind making it? What gameplay does it feature?

All of these questions are asking about the map concept. Its what kind of gameplay you are trying to emphasize. Maybe the map addresses something in the metagame, like early Protoss third bases. Or the static three/four base layout that we see so often. Basically, there should be some purpose to the map, even if its something as simple as a learning map (developing editor skills) or to be perfectly balanced.

This might be the most important thing for mappers to consider once they are confident in their basic competence.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 07:17:38
September 25 2012 07:15 GMT
#16
On September 25 2012 14:52 EatThePath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 13:37 monitor wrote:
The only I think you've missed is- What makes this map special? What maps the map different from the other maps in the map pool? What was the motivation behind making it? What gameplay does it feature?

All of these questions are asking about the map concept. Its what kind of gameplay you are trying to emphasize. Maybe the map addresses something in the metagame, like early Protoss third bases. Or the static three/four base layout that we see so often. Basically, there should be some purpose to the map, even if its something as simple as a learning map (developing editor skills) or to be perfectly balanced.

This might be the most important thing for mappers to consider once they are confident in their basic competence.


The main problem I see with this attitude is that people think they just have to try to get some cool features together and forget about tweaking all the small think, adjust chokes and spaces , consider flow.

But yes, it is a smart strategic decision to make something cool, conceptual that stands out and looks like it will play different (just hope that people go beyond the two/three bases that you made standard

And these two points:

On September 25 2012 11:47 Plexa wrote:
tldr; play the map before judging it


good job barrin

EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
September 25 2012 07:49 GMT
#17
On September 25 2012 16:15 Samro225am wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 14:52 EatThePath wrote:
On September 25 2012 13:37 monitor wrote:
The only I think you've missed is- What makes this map special? What maps the map different from the other maps in the map pool? What was the motivation behind making it? What gameplay does it feature?

All of these questions are asking about the map concept. Its what kind of gameplay you are trying to emphasize. Maybe the map addresses something in the metagame, like early Protoss third bases. Or the static three/four base layout that we see so often. Basically, there should be some purpose to the map, even if its something as simple as a learning map (developing editor skills) or to be perfectly balanced.

This might be the most important thing for mappers to consider once they are confident in their basic competence.


The main problem I see with this attitude is that people think they just have to try to get some cool features together and forget about tweaking all the small think, adjust chokes and spaces , consider flow.

But yes, it is a smart strategic decision to make something cool, conceptual that stands out and looks like it will play different (just hope that people go beyond the two/three bases that you made standard

And these two points:

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 11:47 Plexa wrote:
tldr; play the map before judging it


good job barrin


Well you know I favor novelty.

However I was seconding (what I understand to be) monitor's standpoint, which is that the best state of mind for mapmaking is where you consider the holistic experience of the map, the total outcome of what you've made. Having the vision to access that during the creative process and not in retrospect is the hardest thing there is about mapping; I'm not sure anyone is consistently at that level yet.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
September 25 2012 09:27 GMT
#18
On September 25 2012 16:49 EatThePath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 16:15 Samro225am wrote:
On September 25 2012 14:52 EatThePath wrote:
On September 25 2012 13:37 monitor wrote:
The only I think you've missed is- What makes this map special? What maps the map different from the other maps in the map pool? What was the motivation behind making it? What gameplay does it feature?

All of these questions are asking about the map concept. Its what kind of gameplay you are trying to emphasize. Maybe the map addresses something in the metagame, like early Protoss third bases. Or the static three/four base layout that we see so often. Basically, there should be some purpose to the map, even if its something as simple as a learning map (developing editor skills) or to be perfectly balanced.

This might be the most important thing for mappers to consider once they are confident in their basic competence.


The main problem I see with this attitude is that people think they just have to try to get some cool features together and forget about tweaking all the small think, adjust chokes and spaces , consider flow.

But yes, it is a smart strategic decision to make something cool, conceptual that stands out and looks like it will play different (just hope that people go beyond the two/three bases that you made standard

And these two points:

On September 25 2012 11:47 Plexa wrote:
tldr; play the map before judging it


good job barrin


Well you know I favor novelty.

However I was seconding (what I understand to be) monitor's standpoint, which is that the best state of mind for mapmaking is where you consider the holistic experience of the map, the total outcome of what you've made. Having the vision to access that during the creative process and not in retrospect is the hardest thing there is about mapping; I'm not sure anyone is consistently at that level yet.


we could call ourselves lucky if we all were on the level to make solid maps consistently
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
September 25 2012 09:53 GMT
#19
we could call ourselves lucky if we all were on the level to make solid maps consistently


Yeah definitely no one is there yet. Even some of the most "famous" community mapmakers have bad maps. For instance a couple of LSprime's most popular maps (got to be on GSL and hence the rest of the tourneys, although that has more to do w/ the prime mapmakers' connections than anything, but that's another story) weren't balanced: Atlantis Spaceship and Metropolis.
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 13:12:42
September 25 2012 13:10 GMT
#20
--- Nuked ---
1 2 Next All
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