Yeah, but the side backdoor to the in-base expo makes it incredibly difficult to even hold four bases and be able to attack.
I suppose you could just ignore it and take the gold but that would be very weird.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 10 2014 05:54 GMT

#2382

very interesting skd, I can't tell if it works or not. which I think is a good thing, heh. ^^

I'm curious, when you redo your terrain do you make it all the same texture first and then retexture for your wip picture? because I can't work at all with cliffs that don't match the textures extant from an older version.

-NegativeZero-

United States2142 Posts

July 10 2014 07:03 GMT

#2383

@skdeimos: I like it, especially how many different orders in which you can take the expansions. The one thing I see that could potentially be a problem is that P could immortal all-in through the backdoor rocks without crossing any real open areas to get surrounded, but like EatThePath said I have no idea how it'll actually play out...

skdeimos

Canada155 Posts

July 10 2014 07:36 GMT

#2384

@EatThePath: I have done so because it bothers me just as much - it's just that last time I basically threw on textures as quickly as possible. Did a slightly better job this time for readability.

@NegZero: Yeah, the expansion order ambiguity was the main goal here. I've done my best to make sure that different 3-4 base layouts end up being balanced and dynamic, while shifting the aggressor/defender role to one player or another. As for the allin through the backdoor rocks, which path do you mean? Straight through the centre, I think there are opportunities for a Z to flank and surround, it just requires forethought because the paths aren't as interconnected as they could be. if you mean swinging around the edge of the map and attacking the natural, I think it's pretty fair/balanced to be able to take an extra long path in order to get a better attack route, and I've also altered some things in the newer version that might make it more difficult to do that anyway.

I've modified some things in response to Templar's feedback. I think 4base might have been too hard in the last version, so I added watchtowers and altered the highground plateaus so that they are crucial to defend the corner base and the natural's back backdoor. I think that with smart army positioning and map awareness it should be possible to reliably hold four bases on the current version. I've also narrowed the natural's front backdoor, but I'm debating changing it back to a 4x ramp.

algue

France1436 Posts

July 10 2014 08:36 GMT

#2385

@skdeimos : i'm not sure about the usefulness of the highground pods where the XNT are placed, you could just use some LoS blockers

skdeimos

Canada155 Posts

July 10 2014 09:23 GMT

#2386

It's moreso the fact that all traffic attacking the corner base has to go through there, and the defender will know about it in advance.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 10 2014 09:54 GMT

#2387

Maybe it's just my personal dislike of monolithic tower + highground features, but tower just doesn't seem right to me. Otherwise the map is looking good imo. Note: are you supposed to be able to blink in across the gap to the highground nat? Because this gives blink access to the main without air vision, which is pretty broken.

What if you did this with the tower? That way it pulls the action towards the center en route to the highground, where the orange star is, and doesn't make defensive usage so army-campy.

[image loading]

skdeimos

Canada155 Posts

July 11 2014 11:35 GMT

#2388

Actually yeah EatThePath that looks a lot better and more interesting for both the attacker and defender than what I currently have. I'm going to do something similar, thanks for the idea! This is why I love this thread.

IeZaeL

Italy991 Posts

July 12 2014 19:47 GMT

#2389

http://i.imgur.com/BTuNIJ2.jpg

sorry didnt bother to reupload the image with the correct size.

The_Templar

your Country52798 Posts

July 12 2014 20:49 GMT

#2390

top right has too many minerals I think ^^

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 13 2014 12:15 GMT

#2391

On July 13 2014 04:47 IeZaeL wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/BTuNIJ2.jpg

sorry didnt bother to reupload the image with the correct size.

uhhh, so 3rd base = winner base?

Waugh

France8 Posts

July 13 2014 14:18 GMT

#2392

Hi guys!

This is my very first map for SC2.
The playable zone is 140*128.

That's a long time I wanted to handle the SC2 map editor, but I didn't have the time until this week end.

This is completely WIP. There is no doodads/decals/ornaments, I wanted to focus first on the overall structure.
Just tell me what you think about it, I know it's far from being perfect and I'm open to any critics :-)

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 13 2014 18:21 GMT

#2393

@Waugh: Welcome to the map community! That looks quite nice for a first map, well done. A few little things to keep track of: make sure the tower doesn't give vision of the main base near the ramp. And you might want to pull back that area a little to reduce blink surface area. The main base could probably be a bit bigger. I would move the lowground 3rd a little further from the ramp so it's not as easy to ff or wall right there.

For the layout, this looks like a fun, solid concept that's well executed but a little small for sc2 nowadays. Compare to Bel'Shir Vestige which is basically the same expansion pattern with more security for the later bases due to distance. If there's anything I'd do on this map, I'd increase the vertical dimension a bit (separate the sides more in the north/south direction) and maybe add some kind of intervening terrain feature at the center highground bases so they don't lead directly to the middle/tower/lowground enemy maincliff base. (This is going to be a little bit annoying to do even with copy/paste tools. Again, welcome to mapping! haha) This would also let you add a bit more mainbase space easily.

Despite the apparent "hard to take more than 4 bases" style, this map shows pretty good proportions which is one of the more difficult things to judge, so good work. ^^

monitor

United States2409 Posts

July 13 2014 20:15 GMT

#2394

Looking for some feedback-

Just finished up 3 maps from a while ago. Probably going to finish at least one. Leaning towards #1 or #3 but I'm not completely sure.
http://imgur.com/ienD7Zr,SjT72ns,v3B7vef#0

+ Show Spoiler [#1] +

+ Show Spoiler [#2] +

+ Show Spoiler [#3] +

IeZaeL

Italy991 Posts

July 13 2014 20:42 GMT

#2395

I'd definitely finish the first one , i also really like the second. The third i dont think will work unfortunately.

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 13 2014 22:56 GMT

#2396

If you can stomach the rotational imba the 3rd one is cool too, but I doubt it'd fly with the way the sc2 club rolls.

I love #2, giving me destination vibes with the backdoor rocks area (how it functions tactically, not the way it looks). Please do this one and make it great!

I think by adjusting the highground dividers and where the path goes through, you could fit in some very spicy potential 4th bases that are right in the middle with decent ground separation and very close air (either side of the ridge). It would provide a nice feeling of options and thereby improve the safeness of the normal 4th.

Waugh

France8 Posts

July 14 2014 13:13 GMT

#2397

@EatThePath thanks for your answers.

I tried to consider all your feedbacks :
- I moved the main base to avoid these damned blink stalkers ; also, it's bigger now.
- Xel towers don't show the main base => check ;-)
- I have moved slightly the 3rd. I'm not sure if it's enough to avoid forcefield.
- I have reworked the maincliff base, with more ramps and a rock; it seems more interesting that way (?)

Thanks again !

fedexfan

Bulgaria40 Posts

July 15 2014 13:59 GMT

#2398

Current WIP

[image loading]

You think it has potential ?
Also, appreciate ideas. Thanks !

EatThePath

United States3943 Posts

July 15 2014 17:15 GMT

#2399

@Waugh: That looks much better to me, now you can take a 5th base and have a chance of defending it even if you're slightly behind. (I think comeback potential is very important, especially lategame since 3 bases is almost scripted at this point in the sc2 HotS meta.)

I would change the ramps a little like this:
[image loading]

With rocks there the only path into the natural is the obvious one, and the alternate route is painfully long and requires you to traverse the entire map. Without the blockage on the ramp, the attacker can take the middle and then has the option of taking the highground route, which I think should be a fair prize for having map control. To me there's not a clear reason to have rocks there, and in that case, I err towards more options for army movement, which I think will improve the function of the highground later in the game as well.

Also on that note, I think there should be at least one large ramp to the highground so that there is a good place for the attacker to gain it, and therefore an important place for the defender to be positioned, making a strategic hotspot which is good for gameplay and spectator value. In this case, the wide ramp where I indicated will make it attractive for the attacker not to go straight for the 4th base, but to get the highground first and then "cut in" from there. It will also help pull the battle away from the short head-to-head push across the middle.

I hope this isn't too much analysis!

@fedexfan: You should push the lowground all the way up to the cliffs of the "backdoor" base to create more room in the middle. All the routes across the map are very narrow and the middle especially could be covered completely by half a mech army right now. Also the backdoor, I think you can warp in from above the rocks, and by extension "into" the main base. You can definitely blink in, too. You should put the rocks on the ramp going up to block vision and stop these options, which most people consider to be imba.

fedexfan

Bulgaria40 Posts

July 15 2014 17:49 GMT

#2400

I agree about the middle and the backdoor rocks, i can't understand what you want to tell me about pushing the lowground to the cliffs of the backdoor, can you explain in more simple way, thanks