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On June 05 2012 02:05 EatThePath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 00:08 Superouman wrote:
Poll: Main choke to main backdoor is shorter than main choke to main choke.
It's not about this, it's bad if the distance between main choke and main backdoor is shorter for the attacker than the defender.
It's even worse on blistering sands because the attacker can attack the natural and main backdoor from the same position and the defender can't do anything about it.
In this map the main choke to main backdoor distance is shorter for the defender so it's fine, keep it. Dear god thank youI've been brainstorming about this sort of map on and off since the game came out. The problem I had was not how to make it nominally balanced in the base setup --> 3rd base issues, but how to make an interesting map beyond the 6spawn gimmick. (I say gimmick, but it is genuinely an interesting setup, it just doesn't offer anything special beyond scouting and the 3rd base.) This map, you have way too much open space through the middle, the LosB help break it up but don't change the fighting characteristics much (pro zerg everywhere), and the ramps in the middle barely matter to the map. This isn't really a huge problem to me because I take it this is more of a proof of concept, and I think you did that well enough. It just offers very little as a new map besides the "gimmick". I think the key to making a map on this foundation at the size you used is to have some bases in the center somewhere that pull the players in. If not this, you need more circuitous passage between the bases on the inside of the circuit along all the main ramps. Anyway I like the choices you made to get it to hang together. What are your thoughts on reducing the overall size? edit: To be more specific about the center... what I'd really like to see is a forward position that helps a player defend better when they take a lowground 3rd on the other side of their main. Right now if you "head them off" from outside your 2-entrance enclave, your army is completely out in the open. For example, this creates a situation in PvZ where protoss will always take a high ground 3rd regardless of spawns. Maybe that's just how the map has to be played but I'd prefer more options to consolidate your bases by guarding forward routes.
Yeah, dear god thank you. Sea Food really had no idea what he was talking about T.T
i guess the middle is pretty open, but they're all blockable via 4-5 forcefields. Im not sure if i should make it more chokey.
If i make the map any more smaller, the mains will be tankable and so will the naturals, which i want to avoid. If i put bases in center it is way too in the center and i feel it will be only good for terran. what do you think? It's a 6 player map which makes this even more difficult. if i put center bases, i have to put 6 of them, which is too many bases. GOD wat can i do. maybe 4 bases in the center? im really not sure how to approach this.
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Main backdoor choke = suicidal map.
I don't think anyone will ever try to engage a battle in the center of the map because of the 4 chokes.
Too little expos and too many destructible rocks!
The 6 player 1v1 map concept should be more widespread; it could have been an interesting map.
How big is this map in actual dimensions? I'm curious!
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On June 05 2012 03:11 sorrowptoss wrote:
Main backdoor choke = suicidal map.
I don't think anyone will ever try to engage a battle in the center of the map because of the 4 chokes.
Too little expos and too many destructible rocks!
The 6 player 1v1 map concept should be more widespread; it could have been an interesting map.
How big is this map in actual dimensions? I'm curious!
BACKDOOR IS MINERALS NOT ROCKS please conceptualize this... It is not as easy to break the back door... sigh
also i might add central bases hugging the main. still testing. it's 156 by 156. the idea isnt that the 6 spawns are individual, they're supposed to be connected so it's not a complete 6 player map.
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United States10334 Posts
dear god it is perfect circle syndrome. *faints*
not a bad concept, its one of the better 6p maps for 1v1 ive seen.
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On June 05 2012 04:59 FlaShFTW wrote:
dear god it is perfect circle syndrome. *faints*
not a bad concept, its one of the better 6p maps for 1v1 ive seen.
Wait, there were other 6p maps for 1v1?? Could I see them? I'd love to note their base layout and see if they work.
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Map looks a bit boring: Just expand in a circle and always fight in the same positions.
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An idea to pimp it would be to make it always cross spawn and to change the middle in such a way that each and every cross spawn would cause a different dymanic in the middle.
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This is new and exciting! I like the idea of making the middle a bit more interesting, but I think cross spawns only would kind of kill some of the excitement of having to scout different spawns.
I would love to see a more polished version of this with some more interesting terrain in the middle.
How did you make those giant mineral patches?
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On June 05 2012 07:33 TheFish7 wrote:
This is new and exciting! I like the idea of making the middle a bit more interesting, but I think cross spawns only would kind of kill some of the excitement of having to scout different spawns.
I would love to see a more polished version of this with some more interesting terrain in the middle.
How did you make those giant mineral patches?
Footprint of desructible rocks, and size scale 3.
I am in fact working on a polished version of this map, a bit smaller as well.
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On June 05 2012 02:33 kim9067 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 02:05 EatThePath wrote:On June 05 2012 00:08 Superouman wrote:
Poll: Main choke to main backdoor is shorter than main choke to main choke.
It's not about this, it's bad if the distance between main choke and main backdoor is shorter for the attacker than the defender.
It's even worse on blistering sands because the attacker can attack the natural and main backdoor from the same position and the defender can't do anything about it.
In this map the main choke to main backdoor distance is shorter for the defender so it's fine, keep it. Dear god thank youI've been brainstorming about this sort of map on and off since the game came out. The problem I had was not how to make it nominally balanced in the base setup --> 3rd base issues, but how to make an interesting map beyond the 6spawn gimmick. (I say gimmick, but it is genuinely an interesting setup, it just doesn't offer anything special beyond scouting and the 3rd base.) This map, you have way too much open space through the middle, the LosB help break it up but don't change the fighting characteristics much (pro zerg everywhere), and the ramps in the middle barely matter to the map. This isn't really a huge problem to me because I take it this is more of a proof of concept, and I think you did that well enough. It just offers very little as a new map besides the "gimmick". I think the key to making a map on this foundation at the size you used is to have some bases in the center somewhere that pull the players in. If not this, you need more circuitous passage between the bases on the inside of the circuit along all the main ramps. Anyway I like the choices you made to get it to hang together. What are your thoughts on reducing the overall size? edit: To be more specific about the center... what I'd really like to see is a forward position that helps a player defend better when they take a lowground 3rd on the other side of their main. Right now if you "head them off" from outside your 2-entrance enclave, your army is completely out in the open. For example, this creates a situation in PvZ where protoss will always take a high ground 3rd regardless of spawns. Maybe that's just how the map has to be played but I'd prefer more options to consolidate your bases by guarding forward routes. Yeah, dear god thank you. Sea Food really had no idea what he was talking about T.T i guess the middle is pretty open, but they're all blockable via 4-5 forcefields. Im not sure if i should make it more chokey. If i make the map any more smaller, the mains will be tankable and so will the naturals, which i want to avoid. If i put bases in center it is way too in the center and i feel it will be only good for terran. what do you think? It's a 6 player map which makes this even more difficult. if i put center bases, i have to put 6 of them, which is too many bases. GOD wat can i do. maybe 4 bases in the center? im really not sure how to approach this.
Well seafood is always good for an argument about this or that.
Tanks, rush distances, terran center bases, too chokey, these are all difficult problems. Maybe it's impossible to create a perfect incarnation of it. My thinking with the center bases is that it will create more spaces than just 1. middle 2. outer ring. I thought 2 or 3 would be best, because 4 takes up quite a lot of space, and has the most difference based on spawn locations. Since the map already has a light rotational aspect, the center can play off of that potentially, although the more perfectly symmetrical the less balance pitfalls.
About the openness, you do have those obstructions, including the sides of the ramps, which create relative funnels, but 4-5 forcefields is a lot these days (based on sentry counts in typical macro build compositions), so the middle is such that a decent protoss army can survive, but it has nowhere in can pick a good fight. So traversing the middle is dangerous if the army has any slow units (tech units), and this leads to deathball strategy or all-in timings. If there were some severe chokes at certain points the relative openness would be much less problematic overall. I suppose certain terran armies would enjoy it too, while it also creates opportunities for baneling mines and fungal growth leverage. On a map where the distances can be pretty long it's nice to have little spots where a small army feels comfortable flirting with engaging a larger army, so you can be out on the map a little with some hope of getting home if you need to.
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wow, this is pretty interesting when you think about it (no close positions, hurray xD)
thanks for making! also, nice on testing ~20 games :D
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On June 05 2012 07:21 AdrianHealey wrote:
An idea to pimp it would be to make it always cross spawn and to change the middle in such a way that each and every cross spawn would cause a different dymanic in the middle.
I would never make it cross only. That would seriously kill the map. It is very difficult becuase it's a 6 player map and EACH spawn has to be somewhat equal (minus the standard ramps T.T)
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So I worked on the map a little more, and here's the result:
I closed the monorails, all spawns should have equal map boundaries.
Added center bases. What do you think?'
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ESSFv.jpg)
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How about making the middle bases half bases (6m1hyg or 5m1g)? cause right now there are 18 bases, and even though most likely you wont be able to take all the bases possible, it is still a crazy amount. Also, the minerals and gas looks a bit cramped in there, and with less resources it would look better 
Oh, and I can host it in EU for you, just give me the details
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On June 07 2012 19:25 moskonia wrote:How about making the middle bases half bases (6m1hyg or 5m1g)? cause right now there are 18 bases, and even though most likely you wont be able to take all the bases possible, it is still a crazy amount. Also, the minerals and gas looks a bit cramped in there, and with less resources it would look better Oh, and I can host it in EU for you, just give me the details
Thanks for the feedback. I thought of that, then realized that there are 6 half bases then, which i thought might be too Terran favored, as they have mules that stack. But I will consider it after some testing.
Since it's a 6 player map, it's 12 minerals or 18 minerals - Quite tough to decide.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EJhPW.jpg)
Hey guys, I've been working on a new version of this map, this time it is significantly smaller. what do you think? (just fill in the other bases with your imagination, backdoors are mineral wall, etc)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zDyFE.jpg)
Update to map!
-Aesthetic changes
-LOS Blockers added
-Changed central bases to 6m 1g bases
-Etc
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LOL! just realized the center looks like an eye 
Anyways, I don't think the map is to big, what is the distance between the main ramps?
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I'm liking this map more and more. Maybe do something with the center like what they did w/  Sniper Ridge.
That way it'll be less open and it makes runby's and possitioning more important.
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EPT
