|
Scorching Dawn
By Timetwister22
Version 2.0 Published on NA
Overview+ Show Spoiler +Aesthetics+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer+ Show Spoiler +TexturesRedstone Rock Redstone Rocky Dirt Redstone Dirt Redstone Mud Craxi Alpha Plates Braxis Alpha Mesh Redstone Rough Braxis Alpha Dark Plates CliffsBraxis Alpha Organic Cliffs Braxis Alpha Manmade Cliffs Size: 150x150 Main-Main- 41 seconds Nat-Nat-36 seconds
Features:
-Backdoor into natural shortens distance to 3rd, but can also open up an additional attack path for your opponent.
-No Xel'naga tower, but plenty of high ground areas to put overlords and observers.
-Added several attack paths with the intent to decrease 2-3 base turtling play and promote multi-prong attacks and the importance of scouting.
Concept
So, I didn't want to make a map that had the usual Xel'naga tower in the middle with all the resources along the edges. Instead I made a map without a Xel'naga tower and had two bases residing in the middle. All with the intent to promote multi-prong attacks and to emphasize the importance of scouting.
Changes from Last Version
Huge aesthetics update, but also slightly changed a few of the chokes.
Change Log
Previous versions
V 0.3
+ Show Spoiler +Overview+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer+ Show Spoiler +I am slightly concerned about the amount of dead space along the corners however, and was wondering if islands would be viable here. Though, islands wouldn't really fit the concept, so not sure if I would add them even if they are viable.
V 0.5
+ Show Spoiler + Overview+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer + Show Spoiler +Size: 150x150 Main-Main- 41 seconds Nat-Nat-36 seconds Used Redstone texture set, but this may change. Changes from Last Version- Increased the distance between the high ground 5th and the expansion along the main to make it less linear and play smoother. - Widened choke to 3rd - Made the expansion along the main a bit more chokey, allowing it to be better suited as a 4th. - Siege tanks can no longer hit your 3rd from the high ground, but can still hit a gas geyser.
V 1.1
+ Show Spoiler +Overview+ Show Spoiler +Aesthetics+ Show Spoiler +TexturesChar Dirt Char Dirt Cracked Char Sponge Redstone Rock Redstone Lava Cracks Redstone Rough CliffsTyphon Manmade and Char Organic Analyzer![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2fw0r.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/69I2S.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Tq9tC.png) Size: 150x150 Main-Main- 41 seconds Nat-Nat-36 seconds Changes from Last VersionSome adjustments have been made to the main to ensure it is not siegable. Aside that, aesthetics and pretty doodads. That's really about it.
V 1.4
+ Show Spoiler +Overview+ Show Spoiler +Aesthetics+ Show Spoiler +Analyzer+ Show Spoiler +TexturesChar Dirt Char Dirt Cracked Char Sponge Redstone Rock Redstone Lava Cracks Redstone Rough Aiur Small Bricks CliffsTyphon Manmade and Char Organic Size: 150x150 Main-Main- 41 seconds Nat-Nat-36 seconds Changes from Last VersionFixed a view bugs with textures and doodads found during play tests. Aside that, I've given the map an awesome night lighting and added in a few more doodads. No general layout changes though.
As always, feedback is more than welcome 
|
I think islands in general are beginning to phase out of popularity - much like golds. But I am seriously digging the layout here. I don't mind the lack of watchtowers either - I think they're improperly regarded as a necessity simply because every Blizzard map has them. Certain styles of map just don't have the room for one without it being imbalanced, and I don't think it's fair that maps like those get ruled out altogether. Yours being one of these. I really, really like it though, kicks XNC's ass left and right. There might be minor problems(like pecking at the 3rd from the nearby ledge with tanks), but it looks really well designed overall.
|
I really like the choice in fourths... one is closer to the third but also closer to the center and therefore the enemy, while the other is farther away but also farther from the enemy.
As for empty space in corners, I think it's personally fine. It just encourages harass at the third more, which is good (imo). I would watch the part of the fourth sticking out towards the third though as that could be... interesting. It's not really an imbalance, just make sure you have good reasoning behind wanting tanks in siege range there and it's not just that it's not just "because it's cool."
Lastly, is one of the main gases siegable from the counter-clockwise third? It looks like it might be somewhat borderline (although I may be exaggerating the distance of tanks' range in my head...). Definitely don't want any main sieging.
Otherwise, I really like this layout. Definitely showing yourself to be more than a one-shot star.  This is looking to be a great map.
|
Really like the layout. Also I'm a huge fan of removing Xel'Naga towers :D Any idea when this will be released and on what servers?
|
The mains aren't in siege range what so ever. At the natural, the gas to the third is barely in siege range from the low ground by the destructible rocks. I just did a minor change that prevents siege tanks from attacking the base at the 3rd from the high ground, but are still in range of a gas however. Both of these features go toward the concept of preventing 2-3 base turtle/tech play.
However, it is rare that I see tanks used in TvP except in the forms of 111 all in builds. Thus, this really only applies to TvT and TvZ in todays meta game. Though, with such a feature available, a terran might consider tank drops vs a protoss on this map to be viable, which it is always awesome to see players adapt to a map like that.
|
On December 13 2011 14:28 Brosy wrote:
Really like the layout. Also I'm a huge fan of removing Xel'Naga towers :D Any idea when this will be released and on what servers?
I can release this now on NA, and maybe get it out on others if some of my ESV teammates have accounts on the other servers. Keep in mind however, it is quite doodad-less and a work in progress. I do have a few doodads, but they are simply there to block pathing.
|
This is my favourite of your maps to be honest. Then again, I'm a sucker for middle map expansions.
|
This map makes me want to force my friend to log on and play it with me.
Take that how you wish.
Edit: Looking at some other maps I have realized, I like this map because it feels a little bit smaller. I don't know, I really need some sleep right now, but I want to see pros play this map.
|
The concept I see is that 3-base is relatively easy, and then the 4th base is either dead center in no man's land, or it's wide open all the way around the main. In other words, 3 bases is good, 4th is just hard to take, which makes this map the ideal protoss map.
Here is what I would suggest (and these are purely my ideas based on speculation)
1) Widen the choke into the 3rd, and take the ramp and move it closer to the natural a little bit, just a tiny bit. In addition, remove the back door with rocks, since moving the primary ramp closer to your natural makes that backdoor useless.
2) The 4ths next to the mains... take the high ground barriers near it and move it closer to the 4th to make it a little more chokey.
Also, fix the minerals in the top left main... they look awkward compared to the bottom right main base minerals (I can tell you rotated them).
If you need me to draw it out i will.
|
On December 13 2011 15:51 IronManSC wrote:
The concept I see is that 3-base is relatively easy, and then the 4th base is either dead center in no man's land, or it's wide open all the way around the main. In other words, 3 bases is good, 4th is just hard to take, which makes this map the ideal protoss map.
Here is what I would suggest (and these are purely my ideas based on speculation)
1) Widen the choke into the 3rd, and take the ramp and move it closer to the natural a little bit, just a tiny bit. In addition, remove the back door with rocks, since moving the primary ramp closer to your natural makes that backdoor useless.
2) The 4ths next to the mains... take the high ground barriers near it and move it closer to the 4th to make it a little more chokey.
Also, fix the minerals in the top left main... they look awkward compared to the bottom right main base minerals (I can tell you rotated them).
If you need me to draw it out i will.
1) Good idea with widening the choke, but my team mates have suggested that without the back door, a contain on the natural isolates the 3rd, which I'm told isn't too much of a good thing.
2) Good idea, will do.
3) Minerals being fixed
Also, I'm increasing the distance between the high ground 5th and the base up against the main to make it less linear and smoother to play on.
|
|
|
easily my favorite map of yours so far. seems like a big improvement to your previous maps imho. i am liking the layout. now go add doodads
|
On December 13 2011 15:51 IronManSC wrote:
The concept I see is that 3-base is relatively easy, and then the 4th base is either dead center in no man's land, or it's wide open all the way around the main. In other words, 3 bases is good, 4th is just hard to take, which makes this map the ideal protoss map.
I dunno if it's protoss favored. I do think it's good for all 3 races though. As for the 4ths, a terran would take the center base and make a planetary fortress, allowing them to sit on 4 bases with no problems. And as a zerg I would probably go for the far expansion, taking advantage of my more mobile army. As protoss, I think either the center base or the one next to the main would make a viable 4th. I would think the momentum they can achieve on 3 bases would let them secure a 4th, depending on their unit mixes, with blink stalkers giving some leeway, in the same way as speedlings and mutalisks.
|
Why does this map remind me of steak? Perhaps it is the red centers and brownish outer edges. I like it though, it could be very interesting.
|
On December 13 2011 16:16 Timetwister22 wrote:
1) Widen the choke into the 3rd, and take the ramp and move it closer to the natural a little bit, just a tiny bit. In addition, remove the back door with rocks, since moving the primary ramp closer to your natural makes that backdoor useless.
Well, the mapmaking community can really jump on anything like that, but it's important to keep an open mind. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes, giving players an easy way out isn't really the best thing to do. We see these sorts of "imbalances" actually be pretty successful in tournament maps. For a ladder map, I would leave a back door for the mid-level player.
Truth is, I think there are plenty of maps which have a single entrance to the third and in a location similar to this, and containing on the nat is almost never an issue in games. Having the possibility of it there just makes there one more thing for the players to take into account, and forces them to position their army differently, or make other adjustments.
So I think whether a challenge for players like this is a good thing depends on whether it rewards the better player, or allows the worse player a chance to abuse something.
Edit: And what the above are saying about three bases easy to take and a fourth difficult, I agree that that is an issue in maps (whether or not in this map,) and removing the backdoor ramp to the third would probably help with it if it's a problem.
|
I really like this map. But I feel like there's something really wrong with the middle + side base. Both bases lie essentially along the same path. Their 'entrance' is basically in the same area. To defend them, you literally have to move your units just a pebble's throw away.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is little to differentiate these bases; you are basically taking two bases for the price of one. This expansion layout will be much favored because of this, and also because by expanding the far fourth, makes it next to impossible to defend all your bases due to the extreme distance you have to traverse.
|
Then maybe I should widen the ramp that goes from side base to the farther fourth? It would make this high ground 5th harder to defend if you take the middle fourth, but still maintains the smaller ramp if you take it as your fifth from the farther fourth along your main.
|
TBH I don't want to offer any more recommendations really .. there's particularness about the map that I really like, so I would leave it to you to alter or keep as you see fit
|
Recommendations are always welcome. It's the feedback like yours that I like to hear, as I will continue to keep it in mind for future maps, even if I can't use it on this one.
|
I might increase the size of the main a little. With it's current shape, size and mineral positioning, it might be difficult to fit enough production facilities as Terran. Lots of space behind the main to expand to.
|
You, sir, win the grand prize. I must say, I have never been happier to see a new map. Look at that! There are expansions in the center, and you made it look good! I can't see anything about this map that I don't like. The layout is superb; it flows perfectly. The size is just right; it isn't too big or too small. The tileset is used well. Holy crap, I love it!
Even though everyone knows this is the best map ever, it's time to test it out! I, for one, will be giving it a whirl tonight. It looks so good that the only way to know what to change will come from watching games on it.
Kudos on a map well made! It's easily among my favorites of all time already. I hope this style catches on, because it's been time for a change for a while now.
|
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback thus far. The complaints I have received with the current version so far are that the map is too dark, looks a little too bland, and the mains are pretty tight for terran. Easy fixes at this point, as they're mostly aesthetically. However I probably won't get around to dealing with them until the end of the week, thus continue play testing it as is for now. More feedback is always welcome, good or bad
|
I totally love the look and layout of the map! You've been a great addition to the map-making community!
|
Excellent map mate. Layout and visuals look incredible and love the bases in middle.
|
I like most of the map, except for one thing: the center. Let me elaborate. The center of this map truly is the center of this map. If you manage to park a big army there that dramatically increases your chance of winning in a late game situation. No matter where your opponent has his army you can threaten one of his bases and have a relative short path for defense. That means you can expand more easily, in a case of a strong backstab along the other lanes you can just walk to his main.
So why is this a problem? There is only one center as opposed to two staging points, one for each player. I am afraid that this then promotes deathball play, with a big clash in the middle and the winner of that fight takes the center and then the game. Which sounds boring and does not live up the the potential of this map. The problem is, I have no idea how to fix this. The center of the map is just there, its not like you can move some stuff a little bit and it disappears. Perhaps it is not even such a big deal, but in my experience maps with a strong center position produce boring games.
|
I can kind of understand what you are saying, but to a minor degree. Where I do see you're point, I rarely think the middle will actually be the middle as you describe, simply due to player expansion patterns. The middle would only be the middle in a scenario where both players take the middle expansion as their 4ths. However, in each match up, there is usually one player who expands toward their opponent and one who expands away. Thus, both middle bases won't be mining at the same time, or else one player is at a serious disadvantage. For example, in pvz, if both the protoss and the zerg took the middle expansion as their 4th, the zerg would most likely lose the game. Too easy for toss to abuse the fact that the zerg expanded toward them. Wouldn't be hard for an immobile protoss army to go from their 4th to the zergs 4th, and the zerg wouldn't have much reaction time. So what I'm essentially saying is that the focus points late game really depend on where each player takes their 4th.
However I could very well be wrong. We can speculate all day, but it really comes down to play testing the map to see where things stand.
|
Map updated and published for version 1.1
|
Timetwister, I don't know if you came up with this layout solely by yourself or if you even did the texture work all by yourself (I'm just spit-balling and thinking ESV helped you a lot), but I have to say this map is starting to look extremely gorgeous ^^
|
I like the map a lot, though I am struggling to imagine games beyond 3-base play. How about adding rocks on the ramp between the high ground 4th/5th and the opposite low-ground base? I feel like that would split the expansions on the map more naturally and would make expanding beyond 3 bases less difficult. Although, doing that, you might have to take out the mid-map 4th/5th because, by securing that, a player would secure the high ground as well. Hmm. I'm no longer sure that suggestion is any good, but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Also, I am curious about the high-ground arm extending into the 3rd. Is that so players can have a high ground advantage when attacking the 3rd? It looks siege-able. And a good place for pylon harass. I don't know if that makes it more or less assault-able than a wider choke. I don't really get it.
|
If you know how to do any texture editing, can I suggest you hue shift that low-ground reddish texture (marking paths) away from purple and closer toward an orange. Right now it clashes with the other textures on the map really, really bad.
|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BFEWv.jpg)
One of my older maps, Antiga Prime:
![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6532/tpwantigaprime.jpg)
For months i've been told to fix the center highground 3rds and I finally got around to doing it, and churned out this:
+ Show Spoiler +
So...similar...lol
|
IronMan, I swear this is coincidence :/ The idea of this layout came from Havens, as I really loved how the fourth was in front of the 3rd. The rest just happened from there.
Though, I would say this isn't the first time I've seen two mapmakers come up with nearly identical map layouts. Plexa gave me these examples a while back when he showed me RoV from broodwar and compared it to Havens. Funny enough, these comparisons also include Antiga Prime, though what seems to be a different version of the map.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: had broken spoiler
|
On December 21 2011 18:24 mangoloid wrote:
I like the map a lot, though I am struggling to imagine games beyond 3-base play. How about adding rocks on the ramp between the high ground 4th/5th and the opposite low-ground base? I feel like that would split the expansions on the map more naturally and would make expanding beyond 3 bases less difficult. Although, doing that, you might have to take out the mid-map 4th/5th because, by securing that, a player would secure the high ground as well. Hmm. I'm no longer sure that suggestion is any good, but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Also, I am curious about the high-ground arm extending into the 3rd. Is that so players can have a high ground advantage when attacking the 3rd? It looks siege-able. And a good place for pylon harass. I don't know if that makes it more or less assault-able than a wider choke. I don't really get it.
Yeah, I don't think rocks would do. I kind of want that high ground base to be a viable 5th from both the middle 4th and the 4th along the main. I may just have to space them out better, but test games that I've played haven't really given to any issues as of yet.
As far as the 3rd extension, it just makes it harder to hold your 3rd. The base itself is not siegable, but a geyser is. Also, I loved how in PvZ roaches, hydras, etc could assault the protoss's wall from the high ground, must like Korhal Compound. Both reasons contribute to the concept of encouraging multi-prong attacks.
|
United States10149 Posts
I love this map. Was it your intention to allow shelling of the third with that extended high ground?
Looks like a great map though!
|
Well, the base itself cannot be shelled, but it was intended to allow a gas and the potential wall to be shelled from the high ground. Just playing test games on it at the moment, and also reconsidering aesthetics.
|
It's okay timetwister, yours is basically a better, updated version (also prettier).
|
Updated for 1.4
-Changed lighting and fixed texturing bugs
-Fixed a few pathing and doodad bugs
-No layout changes
|
Updated for 2.2
-Huge aesthetics update. Finally settled on something I like a lot.
-Slightly changed a few of the chokes in the middle and at the third.
Removed ESV tag. Now version 2.0
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yUYuu.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/sGA4W.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zYdRM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/hs7RO.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PaTxx.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZSDRS.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mcLIx.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/I7K7I.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IwbGf.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/OLU8p.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/g7j6P.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pMR6u.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fQdec.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MXcFG.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vBZSX.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/obN9n.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9S9Hv.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HBLfq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EmIt9.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nqlwM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DQu2W.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CdOSj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iaGeA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TXbnV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://theplanetaryworkshop.com/maps/Antiga_Prime/overview.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/avy08.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/H76re.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TLswy.jpg)
