Thank you for pointing this out. It might be worth changing the minerals so it isn't possible- but right now there I'm not in a position to be making any changes to the LE version. It is possible that Blizzard will change it.

Carmine

United States263 Posts

February 11 2012 20:36 GMT

#42

I played a bunch of games on this map last night. Loved it. The expansions flow nicely. The map rewards awareness and positional games. Macro games and more agressive games good. The look is easy on the eyes. Im excited to see it in the ladder!

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

February 11 2012 20:53 GMT

#43

I'm so excited that this is on ladder and that I'll have gotten a head start on playing it... also, the cannons aren't until the third right? That's not such a big deal, since it basically denies zerg from throwing down a crazy fast third, and that's only if they put cannons down... Regardless I like this map, and congrats again :D

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

February 11 2012 20:59 GMT

#44

On February 11 2012 17:11 Timmay wrote:
I found a potential problem with the third base in PvZ:

Should it be that easy to cannon?

Why not it's a third base.

ZAiNs

United Kingdom6525 Posts

February 11 2012 21:21 GMT

#45

I'm curious, did Blizzard give you guys a reason why they wanted to make the natural choke wider?

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

February 13 2012 02:05 GMT

#46

Hey they published a new ladder version, 1.1, does anyone know what they changed?

monitor

United States2409 Posts

February 13 2012 02:16 GMT

#47

On February 13 2012 11:05 Pocky52 wrote:
Hey they published a new ladder version, 1.1, does anyone know what they changed?

I'm not sure if the bottom natural was 1hex more to wall from ramp-nexus than the top in 1.0, but it is 2gates for each spawn now. So maybe that was the fix? Other than that, I can't see anything.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

February 14 2012 19:22 GMT

#48

I don't know how Blizzard did it, but they took an awesome map like this one and completely fucked it up.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

February 14 2012 19:33 GMT

#49

--- Nuked ---

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

February 14 2012 19:53 GMT

#50

The changes to the natural kinda change the expansion dynamic on the map.

RumbleBadger

322 Posts

February 15 2012 02:33 GMT

#51

On February 15 2012 04:33 Barrin wrote:
I really wish to know precisely what they changed D:

This post contains all the information I've found

Show nested quote +

Funny... you can still see where blizz hasn't fixed the aesthetics in spots where they edited the terrain. That's strange.

Adebisi

Canada1637 Posts

February 15 2012 02:46 GMT

#52

On February 15 2012 04:53 Plexa wrote:
The changes to the natural kinda change the expansion dynamic on the map.

Seriously, I don't know if they're trying to make forge FE less viable or what @_@. No likey :[

NewSunshine

United States5938 Posts

February 15 2012 03:48 GMT

#53

On February 15 2012 11:33 RumbleBadger wrote:
Funny... you can still see where blizz hasn't fixed the aesthetics in spots where they edited the terrain. That's strange.

Not to slight Blizz or anything, but check out searing crater and entombed valley, and just have a small look around.

Obviously, it won't ruin anyone's day on the ladder, but they don't appear to be paying much attention to aesthetic details these days. Shame, when Blistering Sands was very nicely detailed, by comparison.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

February 15 2012 03:53 GMT

#54

On February 15 2012 11:46 Adebisi wrote:

Show nested quote +

Seriously, I don't know if they're trying to make forge FE less viable or what @_@. No likey :[

As someone who FFE'd on XNC every game, Korhal might just be one of the worst maps I've had to wall

Doz

United States145 Posts

February 15 2012 04:07 GMT

#55

Monitor: Huge congrats man! If anyone deserves the honor of having their work make it into the regular ladder, it's you. I know you put a huge amount of effort and thought into your maps.

I got to play a few games on it this evening. In TvP, given the space between expansions, it was pretty easy to deal good damage with drop play. I don't say that in a bad way, it's certainly a good change of pace from what is typical of blizzard maps, i.e. the protoss turtle to 3 bases, 3/3 upgrades and maxing before pushing out. TvZ, muta harass not properly guarded against can be quite devastating given the "empty" areas between expansions. Play has definitely been fun and encourages more "pro" style of play, meaning get off your ass and make drop play, runby's, and harassment happen. Lot's of fun!

Keep up the hard work! You've earned this!

prodiG

Canada2016 Posts

February 15 2012 04:11 GMT

#56

On February 15 2012 12:53 Plexa wrote:

Show nested quote +

As someone who FFE'd on XNC every game, Korhal might just be one of the worst maps I've had to wall

It's pretty brutal, yeah. Really wish they'd have left it the way it is, so much more vulnerable to annoying allins

Pocky52

United States463 Posts

February 15 2012 04:28 GMT

#57

Nownow, they had to "replace" Xel'naga, they couldn't possibly make it too easy to expo

and they didn't even need rocks to fuck it up!

But in all seriousness, I wish they would have just left the natural alone, like Plexa said, even just changing the nat changes the progression of the rest of the game...
I'm guessing they didn't talk to you monitor about any of the changes they made? Like even a reason why they changed the natural?

monitor

United States2409 Posts

February 15 2012 05:02 GMT

#58

On February 15 2012 13:07 Doz wrote:
Monitor: Huge congrats man! If anyone deserves the honor of having their work make it into the regular ladder, it's you. I know you put a huge amount of effort and thought into your maps.

I got to play a few games on it this evening. In TvP, given the space between expansions, it was pretty easy to deal good damage with drop play. I don't say that in a bad way, it's certainly a good change of pace from what is typical of blizzard maps, i.e. the protoss turtle to 3 bases, 3/3 upgrades and maxing before pushing out. TvZ, muta harass not properly guarded against can be quite devastating given the "empty" areas between expansions. Play has definitely been fun and encourages more "pro" style of play, meaning get off your ass and make drop play, runby's, and harassment happen. Lot's of fun!

Keep up the hard work! You've earned this!

Wow, thank you!!

On February 15 2012 13:28 Pocky52 wrote:
Nownow, they had to "replace" Xel'naga, they couldn't possibly make it too easy to expo

and they didn't even need rocks to fuck it up!

They didn't talk to me about the changes (or tell me the changes for that matter, I just found the changes by looking around the LE version), but I don't really mind. It is theirs now, and I'm honored that it is in ladder- even though I don't agree with their changes.

I think that they widened the natural so that four base Protoss/Terran was more vulnerable in their two chokes. Unfortunately it screws up the early game, so it isn't the best change. I would rather they widen the third or fourth entrance instead.

RumbleBadger

322 Posts

February 15 2012 06:09 GMT

#59

Just realized something interesting about this map... four bases is easier to defend than three. Allow me to explain:

For three bases, look at this pic. The attacker has to walk barely any further than the defender to attack different choke points. Plus the attacker can abuse the high ground overlooking the third. This puts the attacker on near equal footing with the defender, so timing attacks may be hard to defend on three bases (ie, a 6-gate might be rather strong against a zerg taking a fast third).

But now look at four bases: pic. The defender is still defending 2 chokes, each roughly the same size as on three bases, but now also has a bigger army. Also, the travel distances for both the attacker and the defender are nearly the same as before. The difference lies in two places: the defender now holds the high ground, and the defender now likely has the watch tower (vision) and therefore a decent amount of map control (also due to more central position).
But the attacker likely won't take the shortest path possible from choke to choke, because the defender could easily see the army with the watchtower and attack it from the high ground. Thus the attacker will more likely go all the way around the central low ground (see black dotted line). This gives the defender more of an advantage.

So, in conclusion, holding four bases is just as easy, if not easier, than holding three.

Now what does that mean for the map? I don't really know... I'll have to think about it more...
Some early thoughts though: allows zerg to macro up faster if they can get fourth very fast (although the slightly more difficult third might simply make this a trade off), protoss players can death ball on four bases instead of three (that's gonna be a helluva death ball), and terran can use PFs to easily defend the third/fourth (fourth covers the third entrance, so a PF at the fourth will be very strong).

Some fun stuff going on there. Can't wait to play this map on ladder. =D And like Doz said, you really deserve this, great work.