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Canada2480 Posts
On March 24 2011 09:17 GBataille wrote:lol so many people hatinng on Bisu. It would be very strange imo if he didn't make the rank. He should probably be about 5 imo. Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 17:15 GolemMadness wrote:On March 23 2011 09:37 Lightwip wrote:
I'd say Bisu belongs in 5-6th place. His losses are all to very aggressive strategies, except the one to Stats, and his wins are all pretty nice.
There's still the MSL group coming up though. ...5th place for a player who's gone 3-4 this month? Don't be ridiculous. Yeah... I remember when Flash was #1 on PR while going 6-6, so why not...? During a time when Jaedong was absolutely on fire. It would also be VERY strange imo to put stats above Jaedong on the rank (but I didn't see Stats last game though).
keeping Flash at number 1 happened to be one of the most controversial decisions in Power Rank history
Bisu's dominance during the previous months is not even half of Flash's back then either
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I don't think Bisu should be off the rank entirely - I've always been a fan of rankings that incorporate overall 'scariness' of a player as well as their performance in that particular month.
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On March 23 2011 17:32 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2011 17:15 GolemMadness wrote:On March 23 2011 09:37 Lightwip wrote:
I'd say Bisu belongs in 5-6th place. His losses are all to very aggressive strategies, except the one to Stats, and his wins are all pretty nice.
There's still the MSL group coming up though. ...5th place for a player who's gone 3-4 this month? Don't be ridiculous. ...Did you read anything I just said? Luckily, we get the PO this month as well.
Yeah, I did. Because he lost to "aggressive strategies" and winning some good games, he deserves 5th or 6th despite having a losing record so far this month? That's clearly absurd. He's lost four straight games, and hasn't beaten anybody S-class this month to make up for it.
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The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank.
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On March 24 2011 11:29 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 09:17 GBataille wrote:lol so many people hatinng on Bisu. It would be very strange imo if he didn't make the rank. He should probably be about 5 imo. On March 23 2011 17:15 GolemMadness wrote:On March 23 2011 09:37 Lightwip wrote:
I'd say Bisu belongs in 5-6th place. His losses are all to very aggressive strategies, except the one to Stats, and his wins are all pretty nice.
There's still the MSL group coming up though. ...5th place for a player who's gone 3-4 this month? Don't be ridiculous. Yeah... I remember when Flash was #1 on PR while going 6-6, so why not...? During a time when Jaedong was absolutely on fire. It would also be VERY strange imo to put stats above Jaedong on the rank (but I didn't see Stats last game though). keeping Flash at number 1 happened to be one of the most controversial decisions in Power Rank history Bisu's dominance during the previous months is not even half of Flash's back then either
Sure, but to be honest being half as dominant as the best player on the rank usually buys you a high spot on the PR. Now it's about even staying on the ranking at all.
I really don't like Bisu because of all his ridicules fans anyway so I couldn't care less. It's just that it seens unfair to drop him entirely (unless he loses in MST lollollol).
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On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank.
Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR.
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On March 24 2011 21:35 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank. Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR.
It's too bad for Bisu that he isn't Flash.
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On March 24 2011 21:35 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank. Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR.
Flash was completely tearing up proleague at the time, Bisu has not been this month, you really don't see the difference?
Besides Bisu 2-0d his MST group convincingly showing that he at least belong on the PR so what are you whining about?
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Bisu was the most dominant player last month in Winners League and still he was ranked below Flash and not to take anything away from Flash. All it takes is three fluke losses from Bisu for his haters to start spewing "he isn't even top 10" and Flash/JD/Kal/Stork/insert any other big name is x1 000 000 times better bla bla bla bla yada yada...
On March 24 2011 21:47 okum wrote:
It's too bad for Bisu that he isn't Flash.
Exactly why is it bad? Isn't Bisu the highest payed progamer? And he has a bunch of personal/team titles.
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He's also not the fucking bonjwa, what the hell how are you even comparing them? Flash got leeway for having a dumpy month because he just won double titles and completely dominated proleague. Bisu has ONLY dominated proleague and when he stops doing that he gets the same treatment?
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On March 24 2011 21:35 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank. Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR. ?
When he did that, he was demoted to #5.
#5.
I'm not totally for the idea of dropping Bisu out of next month's PR either, but at least get your facts right.
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On March 24 2011 21:35 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank. Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR.
To be fair, Bisu had a similar drop back when he dropped both leagues in the ToTM era.
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On March 24 2011 22:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:
He's also not the fucking bonjwa, what the hell how are you even comparing them? Flash got leeway for having a dumpy month because he just won double titles and completely dominated proleague. Bisu has ONLY dominated proleague and when he stops doing that he gets the same treatment?
Bisu had his time riding his bonjwa train long time ago. It's not the point I'm making here and overall Flash is better than anyone today and Power Ranking is accurate.
Only two leagues were available for both Bisu and Flash - no difference here right?
PR spot is about monthly performance and if player "x" gets high# treatment based on his previous win/lose % than why player "y" shouldn't? I'm not suggesting 1st spot btw but Bisu should be ranked high.
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I don't think dropping from 3 to a low ranking for having a barely winning month is that big of a punishment. Bisu was great in proleague but he does not deserve the kind of leeway Jaedong and Flash get.
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On March 24 2011 21:35 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 19:52 HopLight wrote:
The whole Bisu discussion is solved so easily, if he crushes his MST group he stays fairly high on the PR(4-6ish) , OK performance = low PR rank, dropping out 0-2 = dropping off the power rank. Unless it's Flash who can go 0-2 in MSL/OSL and stay at 1-3 in PR.
Flash dropped to #5 in the month he fell from OSL/MSL. He returned to #1 only after mopping up in SWL when all other #1 candidates were showing holes in their game.
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On March 24 2011 23:16 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2011 22:32 TwoToneTerran wrote:
He's also not the fucking bonjwa, what the hell how are you even comparing them? Flash got leeway for having a dumpy month because he just won double titles and completely dominated proleague. Bisu has ONLY dominated proleague and when he stops doing that he gets the same treatment? Bisu had his time riding his bonjwa train long time ago. It's not the point I'm making here and overall Flash is better than anyone today and Power Ranking is accurate. Only two leagues were available for both Bisu and Flash - no difference here right? PR spot is about monthly performance and if player "x" gets high# treatment based on his previous win/lose % than why player "y" shouldn't? I'm not suggesting 1st spot btw but Bisu should be ranked high.
Since when was Bisu ever a bonjwa? ...you seem to be living in a different world than everybody else.
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On March 25 2011 00:22 Mortality wrote:
Since when was Bisu ever a bonjwa? ...you seem to be living in a different world than everybody else.
That's the problem here, when peepz find weaknesses in Bisu's game and his overall skill - it's okay but when you try to do that with Flash/JD until recently - you are living in your own world 
It depends from which side you look on it and I'm talking 2007 Bisu when he ended Savior's bonjwa reign before Jaedong became bonjwa. Who was bonjwa in that gap? I'm not gonna argue but I have my own opinion that it was Bisu (excluding he never won both tourneys which is his curse  )
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United States10328 Posts
On March 25 2011 01:09 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 00:22 Mortality wrote:
Since when was Bisu ever a bonjwa? ...you seem to be living in a different world than everybody else. That's the problem here, when peepz find weaknesses in Bisu's game and his overall skill - it's okay but when you try to do that with Flash/JD until recently - you are living in your own world It depends from which side you look on it and I'm talking 2007 Bisu when he ended Savior's bonjwa reign before Jaedong became bonjwa. Who was bonjwa in that gap? I'm not gonna argue but I have my own opinion that it was Bisu (excluding he never won both tourneys which is his curse )
There doesn't have to be a "bonjwa" at every point. Bisu was the best player in the world between March 2007 and maybe November 2007, and again during the era of the Six Dragons. He was by no means "Bonjwa"--he was scary, but looked hardly untouchable. In his first era of dominance, he was rather poor in Proleague, and in his second, plenty of people were clipping at his heels.
And as you said, Bisu's always failed the OSL, except for maybe one semifinal run. Bisu's never been bonjwa. Best player in the world isn't bonjwa...
Anyway, I'd probably put Bisu somewhere between 5-8 inclusive.
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On March 25 2011 01:09 Hazard wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 00:22 Mortality wrote:
Since when was Bisu ever a bonjwa? ...you seem to be living in a different world than everybody else. That's the problem here, when peepz find weaknesses in Bisu's game and his overall skill - it's okay but when you try to do that with Flash/JD until recently - you are living in your own world It depends from which side you look on it and I'm talking 2007 Bisu when he ended Savior's bonjwa reign before Jaedong became bonjwa. Who was bonjwa in that gap? I'm not gonna argue but I have my own opinion that it was Bisu (excluding he never won both tourneys which is his curse )
Jaedong was never a bonjwa either. I have no idea what world you are living in. If you want to think of Jaedong as anything it was more like "#1 contender." Flash did not become the 5th bonjwa until his defeat of Jaedong in both OSL and MSL finals in the same season, at which point he became undisputed.
The closest Bisu can boast is his ClubDay MSL/GOM Classic Season 2 run but there's a huge difference between having a single dominant season ("dominant" meaning high win % + SL win + in this case a win in another important tournament) and having over a year of 80+% wins and appearing in every single SL final during that time.
If the standard for being bonjwa was simply "beat a previous bonjwa in a finals + have high + multiple finals appearances" then there are other players like Nal_Ra and July who would have the title as well. Bonjwa is undisputed. Bonjwa is Michael Jordan, Sugar Ray Robinson, or Jesse Owens. Bonjwa is undisputed. Bisu was never undisputed. Neither was Jaedong. Flash was.
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On March 25 2011 03:40 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2011 01:09 Hazard wrote:On March 25 2011 00:22 Mortality wrote:
Since when was Bisu ever a bonjwa? ...you seem to be living in a different world than everybody else. That's the problem here, when peepz find weaknesses in Bisu's game and his overall skill - it's okay but when you try to do that with Flash/JD until recently - you are living in your own world It depends from which side you look on it and I'm talking 2007 Bisu when he ended Savior's bonjwa reign before Jaedong became bonjwa. Who was bonjwa in that gap? I'm not gonna argue but I have my own opinion that it was Bisu (excluding he never won both tourneys which is his curse ) Jaedong was never a bonjwa either. I have no idea what world you are living in. If you want to think of Jaedong as anything it was more like "#1 contender." Flash did not become the 5th bonjwa until his defeat of Jaedong in both OSL and MSL finals in the same season, at which point he became undisputed. The closest Bisu can boast is his ClubDay MSL/GOM Classic Season 2 run but there's a huge difference between having a single dominant season ("dominant" meaning high win % + SL win + in this case a win in another important tournament) and having over a year of 80+% wins and appearing in every single SL final during that time. If the standard for being bonjwa was simply "beat a previous bonjwa in a finals + have high + multiple finals appearances" then there are other players like Nal_Ra and July who would have the title as well. Bonjwa is undisputed. Bonjwa is Michael Jordan, Sugar Ray Robinson, or Jesse Owens. Bonjwa is undisputed. Bisu was never undisputed. Neither was Jaedong. Flash was.
You know a lot and I usually apreciate your posting, but you simplify too much. Both Jaedong and Bisu were undisputed at their peaks. I remember when it seemed like Bisu couldn't lose if he only got the scout in. It was every bit as frustrating as it was to see Flash when he was at his peak :/ (im a zerg fan <3)
lol, Jaedong a "#1 contender" when he was ranked #1 in KeSPA 11 coesecutive months? Give me a break ffs...
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EPT
