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Power Rank 02/01/2011 - Page 9

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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JosephStalin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States20 Posts
February 02 2011 14:11 GMT
#161
at first i was angry at you for putting flash so far above bisu (since bisu did an all kill 3 times in a row, and has won more) but your reasoning makes sense.

I approve
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 14:15:47
February 02 2011 14:12 GMT
#162
On February 02 2011 22:55 Elroi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 22:46 StylishVODs wrote:
On February 02 2011 22:44 infinity2k9 wrote:
Jaedong is 'beatable' so he's down in 5th. Hrmm. Flash is 'beatable' too. That's why he's in neither Starleague.

I think Jaedong should have been abit higher. But lets face it, Flash didn't look very beatable this month. He lost those games in december.
Jaedong looked beatable this month, flash looked unbeatable this month and there's the difference.
Still, jaedong is getting results and I don't think we have to be that worried about him.

If Stork didn't advance in any starleague he would look unbeatable too, and I'm almost 100% sure he would have had a better PL record too by now.

Sure, we can only judge from what we see and think we know. If you advance you have the chance to show your skills in yet another league, but he showed that he can lose horrible 0-3's in BoX.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
aupstar
Profile Joined June 2007
Australia912 Posts
February 02 2011 14:13 GMT
#163
Very good writeup, I thoroughly enjoyed the read..

Thank you and keep it up!
Firebats, the natural enemy of octozerg
popzags
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Poland604 Posts
February 02 2011 17:13 GMT
#164
The only thing I disagree with is Stork's placement. He should really be behind Bisu.

NO CLOSE NO CIGAR:

(T)Leta

He is on nine-game losing streak and although it began with losses to top players, beatdowns from hands of (P)Perfectman, (Z)Hero and (Z)Roro wouldn't ever happen to old good Leta. Dude, c'mon!

(P)Free

He scored couple of wins in January, but his complete inability to at least put up a good fight against decent opponents makes me rage. Also, losing to (Z)ggaemo and (T)Frozen shouldn't ever happen.

(Z)Kwanro

[image loading]

Where the fuck is he?
What what the the fuck fuck? That blew my mind so much, I doubled every word in the phrase 'What the fuck' to get: 'What what the the fuck fuck my what the the fuck fucking what did the drop dropship medivac where in the what in the hell?' - Day[9]
Grebliv
Profile Joined May 2006
Iceland800 Posts
February 02 2011 17:37 GMT
#165
On February 03 2011 02:13 popzags wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
The only thing I disagree with is Stork's placement. He should really be behind Bisu.

NO CLOSE NO CIGAR:

(T)Leta

He is on nine-game losing streak and although it began with losses to top players, beatdowns from hands of (P)Perfectman, (Z)Hero and (Z)Roro wouldn't ever happen to old good Leta. Dude, c'mon!

(P)Free

He scored couple of wins in January, but his complete inability to at least put up a good fight against decent opponents makes me rage. Also, losing to (Z)ggaemo and (T)Frozen shouldn't ever happen.


(Z)Kwanro

[image loading]

Where the fuck is he?


Found him!:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
ESV Mapmaking!
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
February 02 2011 18:32 GMT
#166
I disagree with your ranking of fantasy. He needs to be lower. While he did destroy Stork, he's been near-tanking it for him team in WL. 6-6 with three straight losses as his ELO continues to dip well below his peak he achieved in December. I almost think Stork is far too high, as well. He gets massacred in two Bo5s in both leagues. He looked so bad in the OSL finals. Le sigh... Then again, if you ranked Stork below Bisu, people would say, "Hey! But Stork beat Bisu in WL AND back in MSL Ro16!" If you rank fantasy below Stork, they'll say, "Hey, remember the OSL finals? You should take a look!" If you rank Jaedong too high, "He hasn't beaten anyone great all year!" Indeed, I don't envy your position, but you did manage to rank players in the least controversial way possible. Except for the fact that fantasy's is indeed too high
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
February 02 2011 18:51 GMT
#167
What a weird month!

Fantasy underdog vs Stork
Coach declare Fantasy best TvP in the world now.
a few hours later...
Fantasy loses all his TvP so far.



FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
February 02 2011 19:57 GMT
#168
On February 02 2011 20:46 Fenrax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 02 2011 20:00 Lightwip wrote:
On February 02 2011 19:55 raga4ka wrote:
On February 02 2011 19:12 FabledIntegral wrote:
Personally, I would have done....

Flash
Bisu
Jaedong
Fantasy
Stork
Hydra


PS. Hydra is 31-7 in his last 38 games.... 81% win jesus. Let's hope it just isn't a random fluke like Hyuk was when he did a similar record over like 35 games.


Really Hyuk having 80 % winrate in 35 games ? ... I won't believe that even if i see it .

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/details.php?section=korean&type=players&id=7&part=games&vs=all&league=standard&map=any&from_year=2010&from_month=2&from_day=11&to_year=2010&to_month=6&to_day=5&action=Update
He had this decent streak.


That is not even close to Hydra's streak. And also, unlike when Hyuk won a lot, when watching Hydra at the moment I don't feel that there is much luck or buildorder gambling involved. During that streak Hyuk beat a lot of Protosses with Hydra busts and a lot of Terrans (if that was this time) with 2-Hatch-Muta-Ling breaks or similar strategies.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, Hydra does it too. But Hydra also plays Standard games and just wins them because of his sense for strategy, Micro and Macro.

So I don't think that Hydra's streak is a fluke. I think he is just a damn good player.


90% sure Hyuk's streak was better than that, imma look it up later.
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
February 02 2011 20:02 GMT
#169
Iirc Hyuks crazy streak included offline preliminary games and stuff.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 20:20:46
February 02 2011 20:19 GMT
#170
Hyuk periodically goes on wacky streaks:

The earliest: July/August 2008. 3-0 against Shine, Luxury, magma, then proceeds to roflstomp through both prelims for a 15-2 total record... before crashing out 1-2 against Pure in his first OSL match.

The next: in July-September 2009. Riding a 4-games Proleague streak - including a win over Jaedong - Hyuk rips up the prelims again, then beats Jaedong (again) and EffOrt and Kwanro in Proleague, with a final tally of 22-5. He's then stopped in his first OSL match, 1-2 against Pure.

And again: in April 2010. Starting with wins over Puma and fOrGG, Hyuk puts together a 16-3 run through the middle of June (including OSL prelims this time) before going back to being smacked around in Proleague.

Leaving out prelims, we can still find:

The 2009 run: 10-2
The 2010 run: 9-2
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
February 02 2011 20:26 GMT
#171
I think Hydra is already better than Jaedong at this point. When he wins the MSL, you'll see. Can't wait seeing Hydra take on Flash.
chameleonism
Profile Joined May 2010
United States31 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-02 20:29:06
February 02 2011 20:27 GMT
#172
I think you would have to put Flash as either 1st or 4th. It really depends on if you discount him not being in any of the single player leagues. If you discount what he is doing since he has "less to worry about" so to speak, then I think the rank should go the following: JD/Fantasy, Stork, Flash, Bisu. However, if you think that is in the past and you see him as unstoppable (which he does look right now, tbh) then the rank should be the following: Flash, JD/Fantasy, Stork, Bisu.

If Stork would have won just 1 of those 2 series or they been close, I think he would be a shoe in for top slot. However, he went out in rather bad fashion so he obviously falls. He is still ahead of Bisu since he is crushing him head to head.

As for JD, his numbers are still pretty good and he is still moving through the MSL. He may not have played perfect in that Snow series but he found a way to win and Snow looked like he was the love child of Bisu and Stork. Oz has been playing better overall so we have seen less playtime from JD. He does have a couple WL losses but I'm not too concerned considering they were against Protoss and he just won a tough ZvP series. I really think JD should have been somewhere between #1 and #3.

Fantasy won the OSL. That is a huge achievement. Yes, he didn't have to face Flash or JD in a series, but he beat who they put in front of him and he did crush Stork. That alone could have put him in the #1 spot tbh. However, his WL performance has not been exceptional so I see the why people have concerns.

If you look at the power rank as "who is the most fearsome player atm" than I would put Flash on top. However, if you look at the achievements in that month, combination of WL/OSL/MSL, I really think Fantasy should have been given the nod. I do think Flash should be penalized for not being in either single player league (through January).

My personal list: Fantasy, JD, Stork, Flash, Bisu.
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
February 02 2011 23:12 GMT
#173
On February 03 2011 05:27 chameleonism wrote:
I think you would have to put Flash as either 1st or 4th. It really depends on if you discount him not being in any of the single player leagues. If you discount what he is doing since he has "less to worry about" so to speak, then I think the rank should go the following: JD/Fantasy, Stork, Flash, Bisu. However, if you think that is in the past and you see him as unstoppable (which he does look right now, tbh) then the rank should be the following: Flash, JD/Fantasy, Stork, Bisu.

If Stork would have won just 1 of those 2 series or they been close, I think he would be a shoe in for top slot. However, he went out in rather bad fashion so he obviously falls. He is still ahead of Bisu since he is crushing him head to head.

As for JD, his numbers are still pretty good and he is still moving through the MSL. He may not have played perfect in that Snow series but he found a way to win and Snow looked like he was the love child of Bisu and Stork. Oz has been playing better overall so we have seen less playtime from JD. He does have a couple WL losses but I'm not too concerned considering they were against Protoss and he just won a tough ZvP series. I really think JD should have been somewhere between #1 and #3.

Fantasy won the OSL. That is a huge achievement. Yes, he didn't have to face Flash or JD in a series, but he beat who they put in front of him and he did crush Stork. That alone could have put him in the #1 spot tbh. However, his WL performance has not been exceptional so I see the why people have concerns.

If you look at the power rank as "who is the most fearsome player atm" than I would put Flash on top. However, if you look at the achievements in that month, combination of WL/OSL/MSL, I really think Fantasy should have been given the nod. I do think Flash should be penalized for not being in either single player league (through January).

My personal list: Fantasy, JD, Stork, Flash, Bisu.


Yeah, I've always viewed the power rank as "who came out of this month as the most dominating?" which is essentially the same thing. Fantasy just doesn't feel dominating atm, just overall quite good, which is why he should def be on it in a respectable position, but the Flash/Stork/Jaedong/Bisu all feel scarier than him.
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
February 02 2011 23:47 GMT
#174
Flash Fantasy Stork JD and Bisu top 5. ORDER AT LAST
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
February 02 2011 23:52 GMT
#175
I think it's pretty amazing that flamewheel came up with a list that a significant minority agrees with. There are good arguments for most of the 120 permutations for top 5 and even some where Hydra makes it and someone gets left out.

It might feel like the three spots between Flash and Bisu is too much. But that doesn't have to mean a big difference in power. It's just that the field is more competitive than ever. 5 month ago the difference between number 1 and 2 and number 2 and 3 were bigger than the difference between 1 and 5 now.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
Yodo
Profile Joined March 2010
Russian Federation327 Posts
February 02 2011 23:59 GMT
#176
Coach declare Fantasy best TvP in the world now.
a few hours later...
Fantasy loses all his TvP so far.

Coach has not been so wrong. Lets check overall vs P stats:


Player Wins Losses Games Percentage
Flash 114 45 159 71.70%
EffOrt 41 18 59 69.49%
Jaedong 116 53 169 68.64%
July 93 45 138 67.39%
H.O.T- 38 19 57 66.67%
sAviOr 70 37 107 65.42%
Bisu 95 52 147 64.63%
ChoJJa 58 32 90 64.44%
Fantasy 67 39 106 63.21%
BeSt 44 26 70 62.86%
Calm 52 32 84 61.90%
oov 67 44 111 60.36%


As you can see, it is really hard to master TvP. There are only 3 T with winrate above 60%. Fanta's TvP is really gosu.
Thx to Mumei for this stats.
Mumei
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States254 Posts
February 03 2011 00:59 GMT
#177
Four, actually. ChRh had a 39 - 25 record (60.94%) when he retired, but I missed him before. I haven't found any other Terrans with particularly high lifetime averages against Protoss, though.
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
February 03 2011 01:09 GMT
#178
On February 03 2011 08:59 Yodo wrote:
Show nested quote +
Coach declare Fantasy best TvP in the world now.
a few hours later...
Fantasy loses all his TvP so far.

Coach has not been so wrong. Lets check overall vs P stats:


Player Wins Losses Games Percentage
Flash 114 45 159 71.70%
EffOrt 41 18 59 69.49%
Jaedong 116 53 169 68.64%
July 93 45 138 67.39%
H.O.T- 38 19 57 66.67%
sAviOr 70 37 107 65.42%
Bisu 95 52 147 64.63%
ChoJJa 58 32 90 64.44%
Fantasy 67 39 106 63.21%
BeSt 44 26 70 62.86%
Calm 52 32 84 61.90%
oov 67 44 111 60.36%


As you can see, it is really hard to master TvP. There are only 3 T with winrate above 60%. Fanta's TvP is really gosu.
Thx to Mumei for this stats.


Still 8.5% lower than Flash, though. That is a very significant amount.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-03 01:32:38
February 03 2011 01:23 GMT
#179
Yeah, that Fantasy is one of the better TvP players out there we have known quite a while.
Saying that he's the best is pretty bold though.

I feel that TvP is actually Flash's best matchup right now.
TvT, he usually wins but many of the games are closer than they should have to be. Maybe thats because of TvT nature but I still feel much safer and certain that he's going to win a TvP these days.

Despite the stats, I'd rank his matchups TvP > TvZ > TvT

In the last 50 TvP games.

Flash 42-8 (85%)
Fantasy 33-17 (65%)


The difference is pretty significant if you ask me and this is just comparing records.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Yodo
Profile Joined March 2010
Russian Federation327 Posts
February 03 2011 01:54 GMT
#180
Well, it is not like I state that Fantasy > Flash in TvP. I just mean Fantasy is the best TvPer amongst the humans =)
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