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[WCS KR] Ro4 Preview / Code A&S Recap

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130 CommentsPost a Reply
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[WCS KR] Ro4 Preview / Code A&S Recap

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
Graphics bypetad, shiroiusagi
May 22nd, 2013 21:29 GMT

2013 GSL Season 2
Banner art by petad


Code A/Code S Placement
Mixed Recap


Innovation vs. RorO
Semi-final 2 Preview


Brackets and standings on Liquipedia

Code A & S Recap

by Waxangel

Last night featured an unusual double-header, with both Code A and Code S games being played on the same night. Code A was business as usual, with a handful of final round games being played with next season's Code S spots on the line.

However, the Code S matches were something new entirely. The new WCS system has the top six players from the Korean region being invited to the combined season final (along side players from America and Europe), which meant placement matches had to be played to figure out who came in 5th and 6th place. The four quarter-final losers faced off in two important series, with spots at the season finals on the line.

Code A Round 3: (P)Rain, (T)Bbyong, (Z)soO, and (Z)RagnaroK advance to Code S/OSL
Match Results from Live Report Thread by Dodgin.
+ Show Spoiler [Results] +
RagnaroK vs. GuMiho
(Z)RagnaroK <Daybreak> (T)GuMiho
(Z)RagnaroK <Bel'Shir Vestige> (T)GuMiho
(Z)RagnaroK <Akilon Wastes> (T)GuMiho

Ragnarok wins 2-0!

ParalyzE vs. soO
(P)ParalyzE <Star Station> (Z)soO
(P)ParalyzE <Red City> (Z)soO
(P)ParalyzE <Whirlwind> (Z)soO

soO wins 2-0!

Leenock vs. Bbyong
(Z)Leenock <Bel'Shir Vestige> (T)Bbyong
(Z)Leenock <Atlas> (T)Bbyong
(Z)Leenock <Akilon Wastes> (T)Bbyong

Bbyong wins 2-0!

ByuN vs. Rain
(T)ByuN <Star Station> (P)Rain
(T)ByuN <Akilon Wastes> (P)Rain
(T)ByuN <Red City> (P)Rain

Rain wins 2-1!


There were two major surprises in the final day of Code A, as two relative newcomers usurped FXO's two established Code S players. First, the ex-TSL Zerg (Z)LG-IM_RagnaroK used drop builds to catch (T)FXO.GuMiho with his pants down, taking a surprisingly easily 2 - 0 victory. The sixteen year old Zerg had shown flashes of brilliance since he was on TSL, and he realized his potential by making it to his first Code S/OSL tournament.

FXO took another blow as their ace (Z)Leenock fell to CJ's (T)Bbyong. Bbyong had been crushed by Leenock in the GSL in the past, but he looked much improved in HotS as he took a 2 - 0 victory against his much more decorated opponent. All it took was solid macro games from Bbyong, who battered Leenock with marines, medivacs and mines until he earned the GG. Leenock didn't look to be in particularly good form on the day, with his poor lair-phase macro costing him dearly.

The other two matches were toss-ups, and would not have been a big surprise no matter how they ended. In the end, (P)SKT_Rain managed to defeat (T)ByuNPrime 2 - 1, surviving a dangerous SCV-pull timing in game three for a narrow win. In the SKT team-kill match, (Z)soO defeated his teammate (P)ParalyzE 2 - 0 in a humorous series where Paralyze made immense mistakes in both games. Paralyze didn't seem fazed by getting crushed in terrible games, however, and was more than happy to perform a ceremony that made it hard to tell he was the loser.

[image loading]


(Z)RorO and (Z)LosirA trump (P)PartinG and (T)Bomber to earn spots at the WCS Season 1 Finals
Match Results from Live Report Thread by Wintex.
+ Show Spoiler [Match Results] +
RorO vs. PartinG
(Z)RorO <Daybreak> (P)PartinG
(Z)RorO <Bel'Shir Vestige> (P)PartinG
(Z)RorO <Red City> (P)PartinG
(Z)RorO <Whirlwind> (P)PartinG
(Z)RorO <Atlas> (P)PartinG

(Z)RorO wins 3-1!



KangHo vs. Bomber
(Z)KangHo <Star Station> (T)Bomber
(Z)KangHo <Daybreak> (T)Bomber
(Z)KangHo <Akilon Wastes> (T)Bomber
(Z)KangHo <Atlas> (T)Bomber
(Z)KangHo <Red City> (T)Bomber


(Z)KangHo wins 3-0!


The Zerg duo of (Z)Samsung_RorO and (Z)LG-IM_KangHo earned fine consolation for their elimination from the GSL, receiving shots at more prize money and valuable WCS points at the WCS Season 1 Finals.

The first series saw GSL champion RorO face the Soul Train conductor (P)SKT_PartinG. Although RorO was thoroughly thrashed by Innovation in the quarter-finals, he showed his ZvP was still up to snuff by taking a 3 - 1 over PartinG. Mass mutalisk-corruptor play was a big part of the series for RorO, as it figured heavily into the two most exciting games of the night. In one game, RorO achieved a throw that was reminiscent of his earlier game in the Proleague against HerO, where his carelessly stacked flyers were wiped by his opponent's splash damage. However, RorO showed that he could be very good at mutalisk micro when needed, as he won a beautiful air vs. ground engagement in the final game of the series. In one of the closest, most exciting ending sequences ever seen in a professional game, RorO managed to win an intense, small-scale engagement of mutalisks against archons and templars to close out the series.

The other series was not quite as exciting, as (Z)LG-IM_KangHo won an easy 3 - 0 victory against (T)ST_Bomber. Just like his loss against Symbol in the quarter-finals, Bomber showed great weakness against Zerg's aggressive attacks. A huge ling-bane attack crushed him in the first game, while a horrible lowered-depot blunder cost him the game against Losira's roach rush in game three. To add insult to injury, Bomber even lost in his forte, a macro game on Daybreak. Losira out-bombered Bomber, continually pumping out Zerg units regardless of losses until he was able to swarm over his opponent in the end.

Semi-Finals: Innovation vs. Symbol

by stuchiu

  • (T)STX_Innovation

    Strengths
    - Strongest TvZ in the world.
    - Great macro, micro and multitasking.
    - Can spike his HPM (hellbats per minute) to 600 in dire situations

    Weaknesses
    - Other Terrans
    - Has to juggle GSL with carrying STX Soul in Proleague
    - TL and Artosis both really want to pick him to win, so that can't be good

    Ideal Winning Scenario: Wins 4-0 in a one-sided stomp like the entirety of his run so far.

    Craziest Winning Scenario: Wins 4-0 in a surprisingly close set. Innovation is not an imaginative man.

  • (Z)Azubu_Symbol

    Strengths
    - Great at preparing for long series.
    - Nydus God: 13-3 when using Nydus Worms in GSL.
    - Has the entire TSL-Zerg brain trust backing him.

    Weaknesses
    - Playing against Innovation, isn’t that enough?

    Ideal Winning Scenario: Somehow, someway wins 4-3. Even a close series of 3-4 would be seen as a miracle considering who he’s playing.

    Craziest Winning Scenario: Wins 4-3 only using only Nydus attacks. Mr.Chae cries tears of blood as he gets another ZvZ finals.



Still the Greatest Terran in the World

“...and though Mvp was the last and most valiant defender of the Terran Kingdom, his era was coming to an end. Though already long past broken, he kept his vigil for one year longer than anyone thought possible, but the foul Zerg youth named Life finally cut him down and ended the glorious Terran Kingdom. The Terran was vanquished, Zerg had triumphed. The Zerg era had begun. But from the ashes of defeat would rise a new champion. Reborn under the waters of Yongsan and anointed upun the Korean ladder, Innovation would rise to retake the GSL.”
- MajOr 3:16

Three weeks ago I called Innovation the greatest Terran player in the world based solely on his awe inspiring straight up macro play Three weeks later, not much has changed. He crushed his way through the group of death going 4 - 1 , easily stomping Flash and Life into the ground. He crushed the reigning champion Roro 3-0 in the quarter-finals, and he got two Proleague all-kills along the way against EG-TL and CJ Entus. Innovation is on a roll and his momentum has never been stronger. He has risen to a point where his macro play is now so strong that mixing it up actually hurts his chances of winning. All-ins, strategies, gimmicks, tricks, and oddball styles are of no meaning to Innovation. He will play straight up, he will play to the late game and he will just use his superior mechanics to edge out a win every time. And he could very well be the first Terran GSL champion in over a year.

GSL for the majority of its lifetime has been an all Terran affair. While Nestea and MC represented their races well, it has always been a Terran dominated tournament with the most champions and finalists coming from that race. This all changed in 2012 as it became a more even battle with between the three races and for a brief moment it looked like Protoss would have a chance to shine and take up the trophy. Unfortunately for them, DRG slapped Genius around and the entirety of the Protoss race underestimated the willpower of broken man Mvp leaving them with only Seed as their GSL winner. After that came the era of the Zergs as Life, Sniper and Roro would go on to win three GSLs, twice in ZvZ finals.

Going into HotS, this meant that the first tournament of the expansion had a large amount of Zergs, 14 in total. But of those 14, 5 stood above the rest: Life, Leenock, Soulkey, Roro and Symbol. Of them, Innovation has now exterminated 3. He beat Leenock decisively 3-0 at MLG. He beat Life in the Ro16 group of death 2-0. And he beat Roro 3-0 in the Ro8. From the other two races, only four others can match Innovation's skill level. For Protoss there is Parting, Rain and sOs. For Terran, there is Flash. He beat Flash 2 - 1 in the group of death, beat Rain in the deciding match in the Ro32 and Parting was derailed by Soulkey in the ro8. Only two now stand in his way. Symbol here and Soulkey in the finals. This is Innovation’s GSL for the taking.


Symbol, the Nydus God

Among the top Zerg players, Symbol was probably the least likely to make it this far. Life was a 2 time GSL champion and had just won MLG. Leenock was a 2 time MLG Champion and one of the best players to never win the GSL. Soulkey was a consistent Zerg player in the GSL, reaching the ro8 twice, and is one of two aces of the strongest team in Proleague. Roro was the reigning champion of GSL having beaten Symbol to take it. Symbol and Roro had the least amount of time to switch literally playing WoL to the very last second of the expiration date.

In another way, Symbol was the most likely to get this far. Among the Zergs, no one matches him in terms of consistency: Ro8 - Ro8 - Ro16 - Finals - Ro4. Since his debut into Code S, he has reached the playoff bracket 4 times out of 5. The only time he didn’t, he was stuck in a hellhole with Life, Leenock and Soulkey. On top of that Symbol is the best Zerg at reinventing himself. Other Zergs like Life, Roro and Soulkey just focus on their own styles and slowly hone it over time until it becomes a sword that can cut through anything. Symbol is different. One season he loses with his ultralisk queen infestor. The next he just goes broodlord infestor. One season he is all about macro late game zerg. The next he’s busting Zergs and Terrans alike with lings, banes and roaches. Symbol doesn’t care about his style. His only style is victory at any cost. He does not care if it comes to him in a drawn out 50 minute game or a 5 minute bust. So long as he thinks the strategy is the one most likely to gain him victory, he will use it.

But for Symbol, this will be beyond hard. Even ignoring Innovation’s TvZ and just looking at the outside environment. No one expects him to win. Almost no one wants him to. No one from Kespa, no one from ESF, not Mr. Chae, not the casters, and not the fans. Anything to avoid the THIRD ZvZ final in a row. In the entire world, only a handful of people want him to win: CMStorm_Polt, Quantic.Hyun, MVP_Shine, and LG-IM_Ragnarok. Even after the dissolution of TSL, the old team of the Swarm preserved strong camaraderie, sharing strategies, cheering each other on and generally helping each other out whenever they can. And Symbol will need all the help he can get. With the entire world against him and praying for his defeat, Symbol will go into that booth with everyone in the world rooting against him.

By now, even the ladder-focused Innovation must know that all Symbol has done is large roach baneling attacks and nydus attacks against Terrans thus far. The problem for Symbol is that while he can play macro games with the best Terrans in the world, Innovation is on another level. He devastated both Life and Roro in long macro games. But if Symbol sticks to his roach bane bust style then Innovation must at least veer from his preferred builds and play safer than he wants. At the very least, disallowing Innovation from playing his game is a good start for Symbol.

Symbol must find a way to catch Innovation off guard in every games of this series. He must disrupt the plan, strike when Innovation’s guard is down, get ahead in the mental game. If not, then he will have to take a page out of Parting’s book. Back in WoL, Parting believed that he could not win late game against Zerg so he perfected the build we now know as the Soul Train. In Symbol’s case, if he cannot find a way to beat Innovation in a late game, it can be entirely possible that he goes for a nydus bust 7 times in a row. And for any other player that would be ludicrous and suicidal. For Symbol, it could be his only chance. Having gone 13-3 in games with the Nydus, it may be his only weapon he can use to even get a glimmer of victory against the man with the world’s greatest TvZ. The question is, do Zergs have souls?


Overall predictions:

Unless Symbol finds a weakness in Innovation’s play that no one else has yet discovered, this will be a very hard match for him. Innovation is seemingly nearly invincible in this matchup going 16 - 1 so far in HotS, the one loss being a game in PL against Soulkey. This will be by far Symbol’s hardest series to date, and for Innovation it will be business as usual. I can’t see this going any other way except in Innovation’s favor. Unless Innovation has a complete meltdown in his mental state, he should make it out of this series easily.

Innovation 4 - 1 Symbol

Writers: stuchiu and Waxangel.
Graphics: shiroiusagi.
Editor: Waxangel.
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TL+ Member
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
May 22 2013 21:33 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
SaikOuLighT
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada742 Posts
May 22 2013 21:38 GMT
#3
"In the entire world, only a handful of people want him to win: CMStorm_Polt, Quantic.Hyun, MVP_Shine, and LG-IM_Ragnarok." I found this really funny lol
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
May 22 2013 21:39 GMT
#4
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 22 2013 21:39 GMT
#5
I swear when team zergs help their terran buddy prepare for GSL/proleague, they only go macro.. because every terran always goes balls to the balls greed, and then get stomped 9/10 of the games. I hope Innovation doesn't die to stupidty greed like Bomber (and any reason these days) do.
Refer to my post.
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
May 22 2013 21:42 GMT
#6
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.

lets just start already

zerg op fucking symbol QQ
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Sogetsu
Profile Joined July 2011
514 Posts
May 22 2013 21:43 GMT
#7
This GSL must be won by Innovation, I simply can't see anything different. The worst would be if he loses and then the "best Terran player in the world" tittle won't be backed like a lot of users say (comparing it to MVP)
Raptor: "Es hora de salvar a los E-Sports..." http://i3.minus.com/ibtne3liprtByB.png
AgentW
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
United States7725 Posts
May 22 2013 21:44 GMT
#8
When are people going to start to recognize Symbol as one of the best in the world?

Symbol 4-3 Innovation
Who's the bigger scrub, the scrub, or the scrub who loses to him?
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
May 22 2013 21:47 GMT
#9
Last GSL Symbol beat Innovation 3-2, actually. Still hoping for 4-0, I don't want this to be close. Save me the stress and disappointment!
Refer to my post.
DBS
Profile Joined July 2012
515 Posts
May 22 2013 21:48 GMT
#10
The Major quote was so dramatic, I love it
"a pitchfork is for hay. a trident is for killing bitches." -djwheat
Popkiller
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3415 Posts
May 22 2013 21:54 GMT
#11
gogo Innovation. And I keep forgetting about OGN hosting the next Code S... crazy.
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2953 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 22:00:35
May 22 2013 21:55 GMT
#12
On May 23 2013 06:44 AgentW wrote:
When are people going to start to recognize Symbol as one of the best in the world?

Symbol 4-3 Innovation


Yes!
Symbol lost 2 (!!!) maps so far. I mean, he didn't have to fight as strong players as Innovation, but Symbol has just been INSANELY good lately and a victory over Innovation might not be the expected result - but I would not consider it a huge upset if it happens.

Symbol has always been incredibly good in ZvT and - even though I don't remember many games of him in that Matchup - as far as I know ZvP as well. The reason he never won a GSL title was his - REALLY bad - ZvZ. But that has changed as well, so there's absolutely no surprise he's in the semi finals imo.
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
May 22 2013 21:55 GMT
#13
I want Symbol to win even if it means a zvz finals.
Moderatorlickypiddy
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
May 22 2013 21:56 GMT
#14
16-1....holy fuck lol
"Expert" mods4ever.com
EnumaAvalon
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Philippines3613 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 21:59:06
May 22 2013 21:58 GMT
#15
Hahaha! Afrotoss looks less sad than I thought!

Edit: Also Symbol 4-2
(._.) ( l: ) ( .-. ) ( :l ) (._.) They see me rolling. They hating.
tozi
Profile Joined October 2008
United States506 Posts
May 22 2013 21:58 GMT
#16
Lets go symbol! Waiting fr the upset.
nothing
Gexs
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia214 Posts
May 22 2013 22:00 GMT
#17
Symbol 4-2
In GodLife we trust.
Ctesias
Profile Joined December 2012
4595 Posts
May 22 2013 22:01 GMT
#18
Innovation 4-1. Can't see Symbol winning this. Still, I'm expecting a great series, with lots of nydus play and cool stuff from Innovation. One win will come from a sneaky nydus build.
Flash | Mvp
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
May 22 2013 22:09 GMT
#19
lol nice write-up.

Hope Innovation gets it done.
derpface
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden925 Posts
May 22 2013 22:09 GMT
#20
I could see this going 4-0 for Symbol TBH.

Why?

Just watch the games and the strats he will pull.
Will be a different for each map.

Though he will lose to Soulkey in the finals.
gg no re #_< no1 Hydra and Leta fan >_#
eonrulz
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom225 Posts
May 22 2013 22:09 GMT
#21
Ohhh, ParalyzE. Your hair and propensity for hilarious gif-worthy ceremonies more than makes up for any (horrendous) mistakes you might make.

<3

Fantastic article again, guys. I'm going to go on a limb and say Innovation 4-3 Symbol. Symbol's ZvT is on a tear, so I think he'll make it a much closer series than people are expecting. But still... its Innovation.
Boop!
xNebulous
Profile Joined May 2012
United States142 Posts
May 22 2013 22:10 GMT
#22
Symbol. Last defender of ESF. Back to back KESPA champs if he loses.
Evil_Sheep
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada902 Posts
May 22 2013 22:10 GMT
#23
4-2 Innovation.
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
May 22 2013 22:13 GMT
#24
this could really go either way. but i'm rooting for Innovation hard, especially because i don't want another ZvZ finals t.t

i really hope this series doesn't go full sOs vs Soulkey though
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 22:18:14
May 22 2013 22:15 GMT
#25
Strengths
- Great at preparing for long series.
- Nydus God: 13-3 when using Nydus Worms in GSL.
- Has the entire TSL-Zerg brain trust backing him.

Wut? Did I miss something?? TSL Zombies?
They're out for brains, run!
Get off my lawn, young punks
iMrising
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
United States1099 Posts
May 22 2013 22:17 GMT
#26
TL and Artosis both really want to pick him to win, so that can't be good

uh oh
$O$ | soO
rshawer
Profile Joined December 2012
178 Posts
May 22 2013 22:17 GMT
#27
Innovation to win 4-0, I don't see Symbol taking a single game
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 22 2013 22:22 GMT
#28
Someone should overlay the Guile theme music on that Paralyze sequence.
still alive
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-22 22:31:50
May 22 2013 22:31 GMT
#29
Poor Minipolt Center, always forgotten
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
Iwik
Profile Joined March 2013
57 Posts
May 22 2013 22:47 GMT
#30
please innovation..make a tank or two early on...pleaseeeee
i admit there was a time in my life that i thought that putting my birthday in my username was cool
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
May 22 2013 22:53 GMT
#31
Symbol!!!!!!!!!
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Kotreb
Profile Joined June 2011
Croatia1392 Posts
May 22 2013 23:07 GMT
#32
Go symbol! ZvZ may be boring, but it will be awesome with symbol in it :D
If you don't sin Jesus died for nothing.
suicideyear
Profile Joined December 2012
Ivory Coast3016 Posts
May 22 2013 23:16 GMT
#33
if symbol wins i am going to be disappointed and frown at my monitor
)))____◎◎◎◎█████
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States1583 Posts
May 22 2013 23:21 GMT
#34
Innovation will probably win this GSL.

Then Flash will dethrone him, just like Flash put a dozen other upstarts in their place when they looked like the new big thing. Bogus will share the same fate as ZerO, free, Stork, BeSt, Movie, Bisu, Kal, Leta, Kwanro, and BaBy.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
May 22 2013 23:34 GMT
#35
Symbol is very good, no denying that, he is underrated, but InnoVation is..InnoVation, he committed double deicide (sorry life and flash), symbol aint got nothin
oh yea and 3-0 v RorO and 4-0 v EGTL aint half bad either
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
May 22 2013 23:39 GMT
#36
Such a sick write up!

I wonder how symbols feeling right now XD
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
May 22 2013 23:47 GMT
#37
Symbol has beaten Innovation with various roach all-ins in the past, no reason he can't do it again. I like Innovation, but I think it's important to realize that so many things can go wrong for him, Symbol is a very dangerous opponent.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Schroedinger
Profile Joined April 2012
Germany80 Posts
May 22 2013 23:47 GMT
#38
I hope for a "flawless" victory for Innovation 4-0 or 4-1.
Terran needs a new King..
Conquest is made of the ashes of one's enemies
Ace Frehley
Profile Joined December 2012
2030 Posts
May 22 2013 23:51 GMT
#39
I wonder if there'll be too much rage if Symbol cheese Innovation out
That'd be amusing
...
largehadroncollider
Profile Joined May 2013
United States88 Posts
May 22 2013 23:54 GMT
#40
On May 23 2013 08:51 Ace Frehley wrote:
I wonder if there'll be too much rage if Symbol cheese Innovation out
That'd be amusing


Symbol will definitely cheese, perhaps the first 2 games, and then it all goes downhill for him.
still alive
snakeeyez
Profile Joined May 2011
United States1231 Posts
May 22 2013 23:59 GMT
#41
Innovation would probably win most macro games, but I doubt symbol is going to play all macro games. He can easily all in a few wins off innovation who will probably play pretty greedy. If innovation is smart he will play safer then normal getting vision everywhere to watch the nydus and get a tank or two instead of just relying on widow mines. Symbol will nydus or baneling bust at least one game.
Misacampo
Profile Joined July 2012
167 Posts
May 23 2013 00:04 GMT
#42
>GSL for the majority of its lifetime has been an all Terran affair. While Nestea and MC represented their races well, it has always been a Terran dominated tournament with the most champions and finalists coming from that race.

Actually theres been 8 Zerg GSL wins, 7 Terran GSL wins and 3 Protoss GSL wins.

Zerg has won more GSL than terran has.
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
May 23 2013 00:29 GMT
#43
On May 23 2013 09:04 Misacampo wrote:
>GSL for the majority of its lifetime has been an all Terran affair. While Nestea and MC represented their races well, it has always been a Terran dominated tournament with the most champions and finalists coming from that race.

Actually theres been 8 Zerg GSL wins, 7 Terran GSL wins and 3 Protoss GSL wins.

Zerg has won more GSL than terran has.

I think the number of finalists still goes to T though, and Protoss still sucks lol
"Expert" mods4ever.com
Lunareste
Profile Joined July 2011
United States3596 Posts
May 23 2013 00:40 GMT
#44
Let's go Innovation!!!

Terran FIGHTING!
KT FlaSh FOREVER
WhX
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany778 Posts
May 23 2013 00:42 GMT
#45
I just want to see some very good games, that's all. Please Bogus andSymbol, don't disappoint us!
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
May 23 2013 00:47 GMT
#46
On May 23 2013 09:42 WhX wrote:
I just want to see some very good games, that's all. Please Bogus andSymbol, don't disappoint us!

agreed, especially after that Soulkey vs sOs series lol
"Expert" mods4ever.com
TR
Profile Joined February 2011
2320 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 00:48:15
May 23 2013 00:47 GMT
#47
Even though I like Symbol a lot, I really hope INnoVation wins this just because of how amazing INnoVation vs. Soulkey finals would be.
isospeedrix
Profile Joined November 2010
United States215 Posts
May 23 2013 00:55 GMT
#48
Should definitely mention that symbol beat innovation in their previous encounter 3:2.
http://www.youtube.com/isospeedrix
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17676 Posts
May 23 2013 00:57 GMT
#49
On May 23 2013 09:55 isospeedrix wrote:
Should definitely mention that symbol beat innovation in their previous encounter 3:2.

yea surprising they didn't mention this is a rematch from the previous quarterfinals
"Expert" mods4ever.com
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
May 23 2013 00:58 GMT
#50
Really looking forward to this.

I know Innovation is a beast, but I want Symbol to win so badly (even though that'll totally bork the finals). Also, Zerg would then be 1-2 and 5-6.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
TheZanthex
Profile Joined January 2012
United States144 Posts
May 23 2013 01:13 GMT
#51
If we're looking at recent results I'd say Innovation 4-0 or 4-1. Symbol is great and underrated but Innovation is freaking unstoppable right now. As long as he scouts well and prepares for Symbol I don't see Mr. Zergie standing a chance.

Maybe I just want an epic TvZ finals. Meh. I hope Inno takes it so I can be happy. xD
IdrA fan for life, man. <3
asdfOu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2089 Posts
May 23 2013 01:14 GMT
#52
BoGus 4-0 Zerg
rip prime
asdfOu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2089 Posts
May 23 2013 01:18 GMT
#53
LOLOL I LAUGHED SO HARD AT THAT FROTOSS THING i was hoping sooo much they would make a gif out of that THANK YOU !
rip prime
FuRong
Profile Joined April 2010
New Zealand3089 Posts
May 23 2013 01:21 GMT
#54
I would be surprised if Symbol wins less than two games.
Don't hate the player, hate the game
omisa
Profile Joined January 2011
United States494 Posts
May 23 2013 01:21 GMT
#55
InnoVation 4-0

ezpz
\m/
kubiks
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1328 Posts
May 23 2013 01:23 GMT
#56
Lol at all the people thinking Innovation will face his buisness at usual. If symbol isn't stupid/overconfident, he will prepare a different all-in for each map (if you look in the GSL matches I think you can find 7 differents that worked well, ragnarok added 2 more yersterday), maybe 1 or 2 macro build in the middle (with weird timings, like soulkey) to not be too predictable. I honnestly don't know why Innvation don't get more cheesed, but symbol will maybe show us he's a god at defending all-ins
Juanald you're my hero I miss you -> best troll ever on TL <3
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
May 23 2013 01:29 GMT
#57
I really really hope Innovation wins. I can't imagine another damn ZvZ finals.

Still, I think Innovation does have this one pretty easily. The last time I've seen someone so dominant in TvZ was MMA, but even he was susceptible to early cheeses. With the widow mines and speed boost, it's going to be very hard to see Innovation lose this, unless he gets sick on match day or something (god forbid).

Plus, seeing this guy kill Zergs is so cathartic after Wings of Liberty.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
SwansGoMoo
Profile Joined October 2011
United States145 Posts
May 23 2013 01:29 GMT
#58
I'm cheering for Symbol incredibly hard, but I don't think I see Innovation losing this.

4-2 Innovation.
PXEnTei
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States209 Posts
May 23 2013 01:52 GMT
#59
Inovation 2-0
No that is not an error. halfway through the 3rd game, Symbols brain will explode, but the reffs, wont call it a game to inovation, just disqualify symbol.

If Symbol wins, god 4th zerg champ in a row.
"Sue me, dickhead!" -Thor
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2603 Posts
May 23 2013 02:31 GMT
#60
    (1959) INnoVation  0-0  Symbol (1932)        
-------------------------------------------------
6.87% 4-0 0-4 5.67%
13.41% 4-1 1-4 11.62%
16.36% 4-2 2-4 14.87%
15.97% 4-3 3-4 15.22%
-------------------------------------------------
52.62% 47.38%

Median outcome: INnoVation 4-3 Symbol
Estimated by Aligulac. Modify.

Aligulac gives roughly even chance. I don't believe it though.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
isaachukfan
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada785 Posts
May 23 2013 02:32 GMT
#61
TL and Artosis both really want to pick him to win, so that can't be good

Upon seeing that, I made my liquidbet choice....

However, I do seriously think Symbol has a chance even in macro games....he's really good!
I'm a mennonite, yes I'm allowed to use a computer
Pazuzu
Profile Joined July 2011
United States632 Posts
May 23 2013 02:40 GMT
#62
On May 23 2013 06:42 teddyoojo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.

lets just start already

zerg op fucking symbol QQ


what he said. HEY EVERYONE! RIOT
"It is because intuition is sometimes right, that we don't know what to do with it"
Alryk
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States2718 Posts
May 23 2013 02:41 GMT
#63
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.



I want symbol to win
Team Liquid, IM, ViOlet!
DidYuhim
Profile Joined September 2011
Ukraine1905 Posts
May 23 2013 02:59 GMT
#64
On May 23 2013 08:54 largehadroncollider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 08:51 Ace Frehley wrote:
I wonder if there'll be too much rage if Symbol cheese Innovation out
That'd be amusing


Symbol will definitely cheese, perhaps the first 2 games, and then it all goes downhill for him.

That's why 4-1.
Jazzman88
Profile Joined January 2012
Canada2228 Posts
May 23 2013 03:03 GMT
#65
Man, I'm so scared because every time I think my chosen champion for the season has it, they tank. The last man I backed all the way to win it from pool play was MVP's title last year over Squirtle.

Still, like others have said, Innovation has to make Major mistakes (I'm so sorry for that, btw) in order to lose this series. If the combined power of Life, Roro, Flash, and Parting cannot stop him, I really don't see Symbol doing the trick, unless Symbol is way better than I remember him being and Innovation comes out much flatter than he looks in any matchup lately.

Innovation 4-2 Symbol, but the two games Symbol wins will be amazing all-ins that will haunt my ladder nightmares for weeks.
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
May 23 2013 03:15 GMT
#66
I really really hope Innovation wins. He is so good and deserves it.

But damn, Zerg are so strong. I think they have really figured out HotS faster than other races, and stomping Parting/Bomber so easily kind of shows it.
Paradisee
Profile Joined February 2013
United States37 Posts
May 23 2013 03:27 GMT
#67
Innovation 4-0.
And maybe there's no peace in this world, for us or for anyone else, I don't know. But I do know that, as long as we live, we must remain true to ourselves.
Meigas
Profile Joined March 2011
12 Posts
May 23 2013 03:31 GMT
#68
I'm sorry all Symbol fans, but Innovation is on a crazy roll right now. He is going to crush Symbol and it won't be close.
thegnome
Profile Joined December 2012
Brazil68 Posts
May 23 2013 03:32 GMT
#69
omg, so much hype on Innovation

I wouldn't be surprised if symbol beats him, people keeping mentioning innovation has the best TvZ in the world but symbol's ZvT is insane too, and don't forget....it was Symbol who eliminated innovation in the last GSL
Gorlin
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2753 Posts
May 23 2013 03:38 GMT
#70
I want Symbol to win
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 23 2013 03:42 GMT
#71
I still don't understand this HPM measurement. How can the numbers be so high? Say you take HPM to mean hellbats per minute. Then a reasonable value would be maybe 1, for 15 hellbats made over 15 minutes. If you use it to mean Hellbats per Mineral, it gets even more confusing. Given that a player mines tens of thousands of minerals in a game and makes less than a hundred hellbats, I don't get how HPM values aren't like .0001 or something.
jjakji fan
Thrillz
Profile Joined May 2012
4313 Posts
May 23 2013 03:48 GMT
#72
Innovation over Roro was easy to predict because Roro plays very standard/macro/predictable, and Innovation just doesn't lose TvZ in normal games. That being said, Symbol will definitely try cheeses/allins because that's the only way I see him beating Innovation. Still

4-2 Innovation.
Marcinko
Profile Joined May 2013
South Africa1014 Posts
May 23 2013 03:57 GMT
#73
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.


We will riot hard, hahaha!
....
Dragoonstorm7
Profile Joined December 2012
United States599 Posts
May 23 2013 04:04 GMT
#74
On May 23 2013 06:47 Zenbrez wrote:
Last GSL Symbol beat Innovation 3-2, actually. Still hoping for 4-0, I don't want this to be close. Save me the stress and disappointment!


that was WoL tho
oblivion awaits- dark archon (aka best unit ever)
DeCoder
Profile Joined December 2010
Finland236 Posts
May 23 2013 04:20 GMT
#75
Symbol! I believe!
elmerpogs
Profile Joined August 2011
Philippines441 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 04:34:37
May 23 2013 04:33 GMT
#76
Innovation vZ: 16-1 (94.12%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W W W W W W W <------- Brutal massacre for Symbol incoming. 4-0 !!
SKT [img]http://i.imgur.com/1NuGXvx.png[/img] is still the best [img]http://i.imgur.com/MsxcOXX.png[/img]
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
May 23 2013 04:35 GMT
#77
Well the last Ro4 contained all kinds of odd crap, don't see this one being any different.

Odd crap favors Symbol though so he could easily win 4 strange games.

Still gonna Liquibet Innovation because picking against him is dumb :p
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
BoxingKangaroo
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Japan955 Posts
May 23 2013 04:36 GMT
#78
Symbol craziest winning scenario:
Cheeses 4 games straight, wins in 15 minutes or less each game, Artosis flips the casters desk in disgust.

Innovation is at least a Terran who's living up to the hype (unlike that other one), so it'll be nice to see him progress. People are still underestimating Symbol though. He's shown he's far more than a 'patch Zerg'. Given his GSL consistency, and the fact that he knocked out Innovation last time, I think it'll be close.
tomastaz
Profile Joined January 2013
United States976 Posts
May 23 2013 04:38 GMT
#79
Go Symbol Go ESF!
No church in the wild --- @tzhang0126
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 23 2013 04:41 GMT
#80
On May 23 2013 13:36 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Innovation is at least a Terran who's living up to the hype (unlike that other one)

Who, Dayshi? He's actually been doing quite well for himself, I'd say.
jjakji fan
Abstinence
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States328 Posts
May 23 2013 05:20 GMT
#81
It would indeed be terribly sad if Symbol won. We have to see an Innovation finals.
jiberish
Profile Joined April 2011
80 Posts
May 23 2013 05:26 GMT
#82
"Mr.Chae cries tears of blood as he gets another ZvZ finals" I laughed so hard
Tsubbi
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany7996 Posts
May 23 2013 05:26 GMT
#83
symbol 4:0
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50238 Posts
May 23 2013 05:26 GMT
#84
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.


oh by riot I thought you meant play LoL...
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Shibunbundit
Profile Joined May 2011
Bulgaria22 Posts
May 23 2013 05:27 GMT
#85
On May 23 2013 13:36 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Symbol craziest winning scenario:
Cheeses 4 games straight, wins in 15 minutes or less each game, Artosis flips the casters desk in disgust.


This made me LOL so much I think I just woke up several dead men.. :D
Symbol must die! (ingame) go go Terran!
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 23 2013 05:27 GMT
#86
On May 23 2013 14:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.


oh by riot I thought you meant play LoL...

It's the first thing you think of when you see Fionn nowadays.
jjakji fan
Bahajinbo
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany488 Posts
May 23 2013 06:06 GMT
#87
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.

Damn, this sums it up. :D

No, I really hope INnoVation wins. A man with that multitasking has to win!
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
May 23 2013 06:09 GMT
#88
On May 23 2013 14:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 06:39 Fionn wrote:
If Symbol wins, we riot.

And by riot, I mean post angrily on a message board that ZvZ is stupid and that we're not going to watch it, but watch it anyways because we have nothing better to do.


oh by riot I thought you meant play LoL...

good spot
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
ChoDing
Profile Joined November 2009
United States740 Posts
May 23 2013 06:15 GMT
#89
On May 23 2013 14:26 Tsubbi wrote:
symbol 4:0


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAvHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

in your dreams!!!

the new god will kill lil symbol 4:0 ez pz
관광 since 2008. Master of Cheese. God of Heartbreak Ridge.
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3805 Posts
May 23 2013 06:23 GMT
#90
He must disrupt the plan, strike when Innovation’s guard is down, get ahead in the mental game. If not, then he will have to take a page out of Parting’s back.


Should be book.
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 06:56:57
May 23 2013 06:55 GMT
#91
Symbol was so lucky that he had to face only 1 KESPA player on his way to this match. Both of his 2 groups in the group stage had only one KESPA player each. Symbol had to play (and won, I will grant him that) against Soo only once. He should have been eliminated out of this tournament right in the first group stage if that group had had 2 KESPA players. Oh well unforunately for him there are so much ESF players left in the tournament to face him until now. The Ro4 has 3 KESPA so he inevitably has to play one. And his road will end here. Next season the GSL will have more than around 70% KESPA (so far). He will, hopefully, be put into his place along side with his lucky (not anymore) ESF friends. If the groups don't put too much KESPA players together I predict a full KESPA Ro16 (2nd group stage) next season. At least this time ESF will have 2 candidates out of 6 going to WCS, so lucky for them. I am still bitter that Roro had to play Parting. At least they should have done the double-elimination group style to decide the 5-6th placement. In that case, there would be 5 KESPA in top 6 without a doubt.
DustbinBieber
Profile Joined April 2013
France276 Posts
May 23 2013 06:55 GMT
#92
4-0 sweep by Bogus
Can't believe you guys haven't understood the true ampleur of his TvZ madness yet.
moshyesim
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany31 Posts
May 23 2013 07:08 GMT
#93
I want symbol to win, GO SYMBOL!
buchaa
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Pakistan77 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 07:17:28
May 23 2013 07:14 GMT
#94
...and though Mvp was the last and most valiant defender of the Terran Kingdom, his era was coming to an end. Though already long past broken, he kept his vigil for one year longer than anyone thought possible, but the foul Zerg youth named Life finally cut him down and ended the glorious Terran Kingdom. The Terran was vanquished, Zerg had triumphed. The Zerg era had begun. But from the ashes of defeat would rise a new champion. Reborn under the waters of Yongsan and anointed upun the Korean ladder, Innovation would rise to retake the GSL.”
- MajOr 3:16


LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT!!!!

I never thought anybody's TvZ could be better than LIFE's ZvT. A man of Mvp's experience saw a little window trying blue flame hellions and even that was in vain eventually...

Last game Innovation built proxy rax that got scouted by Roro before the first marine came out, and still was able to put pressure. He went for hellbat drops against a roach bane all in which is one of the best counters known to man vs hellbat drops... And after losing 80% of his workers still made it work...

Who the hell is this guy?? and how is he soooo fuckin good ??
BoxeR, Michael Schumacher, Michael Jordan (Legends never get old)
threesxmafia
Profile Joined December 2010
United States131 Posts
May 23 2013 07:30 GMT
#95
poor symbol, looking like one of the kongs of sc2, hopefully he'll get a championship some day... but it won't be this time. 4-2 innovation over symbol (both symbol wins with a nydus ofc), 4-1 innovation over soulkey, ushering in a returning age of terrran roflstomping.
this is the only thing worth giving your life for. RIP TSL + RIP KT Violet
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
May 23 2013 07:31 GMT
#96
On May 23 2013 12:42 slowbacontron wrote:
I still don't understand this HPM measurement. How can the numbers be so high? Say you take HPM to mean hellbats per minute. Then a reasonable value would be maybe 1, for 15 hellbats made over 15 minutes. If you use it to mean Hellbats per Mineral, it gets even more confusing. Given that a player mines tens of thousands of minerals in a game and makes less than a hundred hellbats, I don't get how HPM values aren't like .0001 or something.

are you by any chance Romanian?
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 23 2013 07:32 GMT
#97
I hope Symbol wins 4-0 and Soulkey vs Symbol finals turns out to be a series of only baneling busts.
Then TL would implode
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
May 23 2013 07:34 GMT
#98
On May 23 2013 15:55 chisuri wrote:
Symbol was so lucky that he had to face only 1 KESPA player on his way to this match. Both of his 2 groups in the group stage had only one KESPA player each. Symbol had to play (and won, I will grant him that) against Soo only once. He should have been eliminated out of this tournament right in the first group stage if that group had had 2 KESPA players. Oh well unforunately for him there are so much ESF players left in the tournament to face him until now. The Ro4 has 3 KESPA so he inevitably has to play one. And his road will end here. Next season the GSL will have more than around 70% KESPA (so far). He will, hopefully, be put into his place along side with his lucky (not anymore) ESF friends. If the groups don't put too much KESPA players together I predict a full KESPA Ro16 (2nd group stage) next season. At least this time ESF will have 2 candidates out of 6 going to WCS, so lucky for them. I am still bitter that Roro had to play Parting. At least they should have done the double-elimination group style to decide the 5-6th placement. In that case, there would be 5 KESPA in top 6 without a doubt.

someone's a bit sore
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
May 23 2013 07:38 GMT
#99
On May 23 2013 16:31 Schelim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 12:42 slowbacontron wrote:
I still don't understand this HPM measurement. How can the numbers be so high? Say you take HPM to mean hellbats per minute. Then a reasonable value would be maybe 1, for 15 hellbats made over 15 minutes. If you use it to mean Hellbats per Mineral, it gets even more confusing. Given that a player mines tens of thousands of minerals in a game and makes less than a hundred hellbats, I don't get how HPM values aren't like .0001 or something.

are you by any chance Romanian?

I just get disoriented when people bring up HPM and then say values like 300 or 600, the joke doesn't work if it makes no sense.
jjakji fan
RyLai
Profile Joined May 2011
United States477 Posts
May 23 2013 08:01 GMT
#100
On May 23 2013 06:33 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2013 10:40 Emzeeshady wrote: Terran players are stubborn so I think Symbol takes a few games before Innovation figures out he needs to build units before 8 minutes. 4-2 Innovation

I stand by this


Yes, Terran players are stubborn, that's why they're the FotM race. Zergs are the stubborn ones. The game doesn't go their way, QQ until the game breaks in their favor. Still not winning 100% of their matches outside of ZvZ, QQ some more about non-existent OPs. You go into a BoX with a plan of what you're going to do. It's unlikely that you'll deviate greatly from that because that ruins your chances of winning just the same as doing a build order you and your opponent thoroughly know, if not more.

On May 23 2013 06:43 Sogetsu wrote:
This GSL must be won by Innovation, I simply can't see anything different. The worst would be if he loses and then the "best Terran player in the world" tittle won't be backed like a lot of users say (comparing it to MVP)


For the current best Terran player in the world, it's no real doubt it's either INnoVation or Flash. Flash died to INnoVation and INnoVation is making "top Zergs" look like a joke. Advantage: INnoVation (for now). You don't really need a title to prove it if no other Terran wins a title. Being the best Terran/Zerg/Protoss player in the world doesn't guarantee titles if the race is underpowered or the players of that race constantly go up against their worst matchups early and frequently everytime (which was *vZ for everyone back in WoL).

On May 23 2013 06:47 Zenbrez wrote:
Last GSL Symbol beat Innovation 3-2, actually. Still hoping for 4-0, I don't want this to be close. Save me the stress and disappointment!


Last GSL was also played on WoL. If Symbol barely beat INnoVation on WoL when the game was BLATANTLY imbalanced, imagine how thoroughly Symbol will get stomped in a relatively balanced game like HotS. And while the game it still young (before the Zergs 100% figure out the timings and most efficient defense for everything), the matchup is slightly Terran favored. NOW is the time for Terrans to take back the game and start winning TvZs. 3-4 months from now it'll either be the return of the Zerg Empire or the creation of a Protoss Kingdom. The time of Terrans is not long (at least in pro level play). The Terrans are but rebels in this war, fighting for the last, limited hours of life they have left.

If INnoVation doesn't get revenge and doesn't stomp Symbol 4-0, the game is clearly imbalanced (speaking as your average Zerg player would). In reality, if INnoVation doesn't actually win 4-0, then Symbol did a really good job preparing for the match. All ins or not, all of them have a fairly reasonable response from the Terran if they scout it (pray for lucky scans) and depending on the timing. Zerg rushes have sort of devolved into those stupid timings that Terran used to do back in the day. Though I would say the comparison of situations favors the Zerg since scouting with well-position Overlords is more effective and consistent than praying for a good scan.
Greenei
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1754 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 08:05:15
May 23 2013 08:01 GMT
#101
Here's how it will go:

Game 1: Ragnarok style Roachdrop catching Inno off guard 1:0
Game 2: Nydusbust 2:0
Game 3: Roachbaneallin 3:0
Game 4-6: Innovation wins in lategame: 3-3
Game 7: Hatch at Innos natural, because Symbol watched Meta with Artosis: Gangnamstudio burns down. TL livethread melts, chat implodes.
IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
May 23 2013 08:05 GMT
#102
On May 23 2013 17:01 Greenei wrote:
Here's how it will go:

Game 1: Ragnarok style Roachdrop catching Inno off guard 1:0
Game 2: Nydusbust 2:0
Game 3: Roachbaneallin 3:0
Game 4-6: Innovation wins in lategame: 3-3
Game 7: Hatch at Innos natural, because Symbol watched Meta with Artosis: Gangnamstudio burns down. TL livethread melts, chat implodes.


please make this happen, PLEASEEEEEEEEEE
Draconicfire
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 23 2013 08:07 GMT
#103
Man. Innovation is dominating so hard lately.

I hope the TL/Artosis curse doesn't bring him down.
@Drayxs | Drayxs.221 | Drayxs#1802
Ragnarork
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
France9034 Posts
May 23 2013 08:11 GMT
#104
Gogo INno !

Been more than a year without a T winning GSL ! Save us from another Z champ ! Save us from ZvZ !

If Symbol wins, I'll claim he's hurting esports.
LiquipediaWanderer
Schelim
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Austria11528 Posts
May 23 2013 08:13 GMT
#105
On May 23 2013 17:01 Greenei wrote:
Here's how it will go:

Game 1: Ragnarok style Roachdrop catching Inno off guard 1:0
Game 2: Nydusbust 2:0
Game 3: Roachbaneallin 3:0
Game 4-6: Innovation wins in lategame: 3-3
Game 7: Hatch at Innos natural, because Symbol watched Meta with Artosis: Gangnamstudio burns down. TL livethread melts, chat implodes.

haha made me giggle
TY <3 Cure <3 Inno <3 Special <3
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2953 Posts
May 23 2013 08:22 GMT
#106
On May 23 2013 17:01 Greenei wrote:
Here's how it will go:

Game 1: Ragnarok style Roachdrop catching Inno off guard 1:0
Game 2: Nydusbust 2:0
Game 3: Roachbaneallin 3:0
Game 4-6: Innovation wins in lategame: 3-3
Game 7: Hatch at Innos natural, because Symbol watched Meta with Artosis: Gangnamstudio burns down. TL livethread melts, chat implodes.


Hm...
Last year Symbol was considered to be one of THE best late game Zerg with a somewhat weaker early/midgame. He changed his style up by quite a bit, includes some cheese builds, but his late game is probably still insanely good - even though he does not rely on that alone any longer..
Of course late game Zerg vs Innovation is hard, but I don't think Symbol would lose every single one of the macro games. Symbol had some quite impressive late game ZvT's in the past.
Jerom
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands588 Posts
May 23 2013 08:54 GMT
#107
I want symbol to lose so badly. From what he's shown us he's just a very lame and gimicky player that relies upon that weird part of zerg where you can randomly all in and take games against better players.

Don't think he can beat Innovation in a macro game though, and in a BO7 I don't think he can get away with cheesing all the time. I really hope I am right, if it's ZvZ finals again I might actually cry.
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
May 23 2013 09:06 GMT
#108
I want Innovation to win and I want the finals to be an incredible brawl between Soulkey and Innovation (don't care who wins).

Unfortunately for what I want, I think Symbol can take this series. It isn't the most likely thing, but it is definitely quite possible.
Evil_Sheep
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada902 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 09:18:48
May 23 2013 09:11 GMT
#109
Honestly I feel this preview (along with everyone else) seriously underestimates Symbol. Symbol beat Innovation last code S by straight-up outplaying him, and he can do it again.

On May 23 2013 06:29 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
Unless Symbol finds a weakness in Innovation’s play that no one else has yet discovered
[...]
All-ins, strategies, gimmicks, tricks, and oddball styles are of no meaning to Innovation. He will play straight up, he will play to the late game and he will just use his superior mechanics to edge out a win every time.

He already did, and TL discovered it too. It's called predictability. Innovation does the same thing every game and that can be punished. Symbol read it last time, either catching Innovation off-guard with aggressive all-ins or playing extremely greedy like 3-hatch before pool knowing Innovation won't punish.

Symbol looks stronger than ever. Last GSL in his finalist appearance, he finished with a record of 17-14, barely over 50% and having scraped by in most of his series. This GSL so far, Symbol is 11-2.

That said, Innovation is also looking stronger than ever. In fact, he's looking like he could be the best in the world after he's taken down the best in the world one after another. That's why I still think Innovation will take it, maybe 4-2 or 4-3. But it's a mistake to write off Symbol's chances. It's happened before.
Gben592
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom281 Posts
May 23 2013 10:01 GMT
#110
How... what? huh? Innovation is still alive?
"The more skilled player is the one who wins, and I don't think there's better balance than what we have now." INnoVation
RandyL
Profile Joined May 2013
Australia148 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 10:32:29
May 23 2013 10:18 GMT
#111
not only alive, but dominating so hard that symbol, one of the best players in the world, is looking like a complete rookie, only games he wins is through cheesing - as expected by most.

so much for all those people saying "stop underestimating symbol/overestimating innovation"
BurNIng your soul.
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
May 23 2013 10:19 GMT
#112
On May 23 2013 17:54 Jerom wrote:
I want symbol to lose so badly. From what he's shown us he's just a very lame and gimicky player that relies upon that weird part of zerg where you can randomly all in and take games against better players.

Don't think he can beat Innovation in a macro game though, and in a BO7 I don't think he can get away with cheesing all the time. I really hope I am right, if it's ZvZ finals again I might actually cry.


how long have you been watching symbol play? i'm guessing not long give him some more credit than that lol
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
May 23 2013 10:34 GMT
#113
On May 23 2013 06:33 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 22 2013 10:40 Emzeeshady wrote: Terran players are stubborn so I think Symbol takes a few games before Innovation figures out he needs to build units before 8 minutes. 4-2 Innovation

I stand by this


Ooh I remember reading this, we're at the 6th game here, will you be correct?
maru lover forever
chisuri
Profile Joined January 2010
Vietnam789 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 10:52:38
May 23 2013 10:52 GMT
#114
So good to be correct. Still, I have to admit I underestimated Symbol. I thought he would lose 4 games straigth but he managed to score 2 wins. Great achievement, no wonder he is the best out of ESF players.
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
May 23 2013 10:57 GMT
#115
the game would have been 4-0 if symbol didnt all in... he managed to get lucky and get two games off then innovation build tanks. tried going for bane/roach and failed.. 4-2. Innovation won.
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
May 23 2013 10:59 GMT
#116
Did not expect Inno will lose to that 2nd all in . Well still wins the series anyways. GL Inno!
AKMU / IU
Lysanias
Profile Joined March 2011
Netherlands8351 Posts
May 23 2013 11:00 GMT
#117
I believe Symbol deserves a bit more credit then a 1-4 loss.
He's just so solid i don't ever see him getting crushed in long series.
Though i think Innovation will win it's going to be alot harder for him then it has been so far.

4-2 / 4-3 Innovation.
Riner1212
Profile Joined November 2012
United States337 Posts
May 23 2013 11:13 GMT
#118
On May 23 2013 07:00 Gexs wrote:
Symbol 4-2


Lol you got the score right but not the name
Sjow "pretty ez life as protoss"
Sejanus
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Lithuania550 Posts
May 23 2013 11:29 GMT
#119
On May 23 2013 06:44 AgentW wrote:
When are people going to start to recognize Symbol as one of the best in the world?

Symbol 4-3 Innovation


When Symbol 4:3 Innovation becomes something more than just dreams and/or joke
Friends don't let friends massacre civilians
Kontys
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland659 Posts
May 23 2013 11:33 GMT
#120
4-2 to the Nephalem Zerg!
Kontys
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland659 Posts
May 23 2013 11:35 GMT
#121
Oh it was played already. Damn, well, next season then.
Khai
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia551 Posts
May 23 2013 11:39 GMT
#122
Innovation!!! Haha Paralyze gif!
Jornada
Profile Joined February 2012
United States223 Posts
May 23 2013 13:07 GMT
#123
i would love to be on Paralyze's team! Such a good sport hahah
www.twitch.tv/jornada28 Master Protoss. Follow me on Twitter for SC2 Updates https://twitter.com/#!/elelvlent
shiheng
Profile Joined May 2013
China4 Posts
May 23 2013 13:55 GMT
#124
--- Nuked ---
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-23 13:57:29
May 23 2013 13:56 GMT
#125
Can they please just let Innovation win so Terran gets nerfed? lol.

Seriously, those hellbats really hurt!
"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 23 2013 14:13 GMT
#126
innovasion so nice ... he even let symbol take 2 games before build a tank and destroy his all in
damn i cant see soulkey beat him in ANY form ... just ... no chance innovasion is like from another star
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
May 23 2013 14:13 GMT
#127
On May 23 2013 22:56 DinoMight wrote:
Can they please just let Innovation win so Terran gets nerfed? lol.

Seriously, those hellbats really hurt!


with 6 z in top 8 you really want a nerf because the 1 terran ? i dont think it will happen not with z win every tour right now haha i think balance is fine even it sounds i am z bashing, thats just a hobby
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Banchan
Profile Joined May 2011
United States179 Posts
May 23 2013 14:37 GMT
#128
On May 23 2013 22:56 DinoMight wrote:
Can they please just let Innovation win so Terran gets nerfed? lol.

Seriously, those hellbats really hurt!


pretty sure blizz learned their lesson last time they nerfed something from the results of 1 player in 1 tournament
Incognoto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
France10239 Posts
May 23 2013 14:43 GMT
#129
On May 23 2013 23:37 Banchan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 22:56 DinoMight wrote:
Can they please just let Innovation win so Terran gets nerfed? lol.

Seriously, those hellbats really hurt!


pretty sure blizz learned their lesson last time they nerfed something from the results of 1 player in 1 tournament


The funny thing is that I don't believe Innovation made a single hellbat.
maru lover forever
lue
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden27 Posts
May 23 2013 14:59 GMT
#130
On May 23 2013 23:43 Incognoto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 23 2013 23:37 Banchan wrote:
On May 23 2013 22:56 DinoMight wrote:
Can they please just let Innovation win so Terran gets nerfed? lol.

Seriously, those hellbats really hurt!


pretty sure blizz learned their lesson last time they nerfed something from the results of 1 player in 1 tournament


The funny thing is that I don't believe Innovation made a single hellbat.


Pretty sure of this aswell, a fairly interesting thing to note seems to be that the absolutely best korean Terrans are simply going bio, whereas you have the slightly worse terrans going mech with some hellbats incorporated, vs the euro terrans who are just herpderpsherping along with mass amounts of hellbats throughout the entire game.

I still think they should cost gas tho.
Madars
Profile Joined December 2011
Latvia166 Posts
May 23 2013 16:35 GMT
#131
On May 23 2013 06:29 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:
With the entire world against him and praying for his defeat, Symbol will go into that booth with everyone in the world rooting against him.


Definition of the "world" : it is something that contains everyone that is against Symbol
<3 Alexis Eusebio, Lee Shin Hyung, Choi Seong Hun, Joo Sung Wook, Jang Min Chul, Kim Yoo Jin, Lee Young Ho, Lee Shin Hyung, Yun Young Seo, Kim Joon Ho, Jeong Jong Hyeon, Eo Yoon Su, Johan Lucchesi, Ilyes Satouri
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