Life wins 4-3 and is your 2012 Season 4 Code S Champion!
Life Walks the Royal Road
"Ugh, now you want me to kiss this thing."
At the end of a battle with two competing, historic achievements on the line, ST_Life's quest for the Royal Road* trumped that of LG-IM_Mvp's for a fifth GSL championship. At the age of fifteen, Life becomes not only the first GSL Royal Roader, but the tournament's youngest champion as well. As a side benefit, Life's team Startale was able to win its first major title, ridding itself of a second place jinx that begun at the very first GSL tournament in 2010.
While the series was a close, 4 - 3 victory for Life, the games themselves ended up being one-sided affairs. For Life, the recently controversial brood lord-infestor combination was key, as he won all four games where he was able to attain that composition uncontested. For Mvp, the key to success was blue-flame hellions, units well suited to countering Life's speedling heavy style of play in the early game. They seemed to be the answer to Life initially, allowing Mvp to go up 3 - 2 in the middle of the series. However, Life had it all worked out by the end of the series, and managed to wrangle Mvp's hellions en route to winning the final set.
*Winning the Code S championship in ones first Code S season
Match Recaps
Game One - Cloud Kingdom
Life decided to change things up from what he had shown earlier in the tournament, giving up his usual fast speedlings to go for a greedier build with late gas. As an indirect result, Mvp's blue flame hellion build ended up paying dividends, as he roasted almost two dozen drones to take an early game lead. However, a second wave of hellions was easily caught and destroyed, making it ambiguous as to who had come out ahead.
In any case, Mvp transitioned into mech play, while Life went down the usual road to brood lords and infestors. Despite the early game shenanigans, the game ended up playing out in a fairly normal pattern, with Mvp looking to hit with a powerful mech army before Life could tech up to brood lords.
The scenario ended up playing out in Life's favor, thanks to both Life and Mvp. Life delayed Mvp's attack admirably, and only lost one base before his brood lords were out. Due to some inattention from Mvp, Life even managed to backstab one of Mvp's bases and kill it, an advantageous trade.
In addition, Mvp had invested too heavily in his pre-brood lord attack, and was left with woefully inadequate anti-air once Life's brood lords out. Combined with a bizarre decision to keep up with heavy tank production while pumping vikings off only one starport, it didn't take too long for Life to gather a brood lord task force powerful enough to force the GG from Mvp in the first game.
Life 1 - 0 Mvp
Game Two - Entombed Valley
While Mvp got in an early blow on Life in game one, he couldn't even dent his opponent in game two as Life put on a near perfect performance on Entombed Valley. With Mvp going for mech play once again, Life made it a point to put the pressure on hard and never let it up. Speedlings and infestors kept Mvp tied up on his side of the map for most of the game, and Life seemed perfectly content to give away minerals and energy as long as it meant he was buying time to tech up to brood lords.
Life was able to reach brood lords unscathed as he had planned, and Mvp was caught flat-flooted as he was in game one. While Mvp did get vikings out faster, it was still nowhere near enough to deal with the numbers of brood lords, corruptors, and infestors Life had out already. Mvp's first push out was easily gobbled up, and the rest of the game merely consisted of him being battered by Life (with one impressive hold) before he was forced to GG.
Life 2 - 0 Mvp
Game Three - Antiga Shipyard
With Life opting for a two base, fast mutalisk rush, Mvp again went for fast blue flame hellion to try to take the advantage early. The IM Terran was able to hold off an early zergling attack with relative ease, and then executed his plan while Life remained unaware.
Mvp moved out on the map with a seven hellions and three more on the way. He took control of the center with four, deflected the zerglings on the map, grouped up and attacked straight into a naked natural apart from three queens. The hellions killed 29 drones, and with Vikings being produced at the Terran base to counteract the mutalisks, Life surrendered a fast GG.
Life 2 - 1 Mvp
Game Four - Whirlwind
Life decided to go with his kinda-early pool build on Whirlwind, similar to how he played the map against TaeJa in the semi-finals. While he forced a command center cancel on Mvp, the game ended up in a relatively even state nonetheless.
As Life went for quick three bases with heavy ling production, Mvp figured he would take his blue flame hellions for another spin. While Life wasn't all-in like he was in the previous game, Mvp still ended up getting marvelous results with his hellions as he scorched dozens of drones for a modest investment. Mvp followed up with mech yet again, but this time he had accrued such an early advantage it didn't really matter what kind of army he wanted. After massing a decent amount of units he moved out to crush Life and tie up the series.
Life 2 - 2 Mvp
Game Five - Abyssal City
With the series tied 2 - 2, we saw the two players start with what might be their 'signature' openers, Mvp going hellion-banshee into mech while Life went for fast zergling speed while getting three basis. Both players poked and prodded at each other with their early hellions and zerglings, but neither player could take an advantage as they macroed up and headed to the mid-late game.
Whether by choice or due to pressure from Mvp, Life went for a later hive than he had in previous games, and his choice of units was ultralisks at that. It was exactly the kind of composition Mvp wanted to see after getting mauled by brood lords earlier in the series, and his tank-heavy mech push was finally allowed to thrive. Life's troops were torn apart, and after some futile attempts to recover with backdoor attacks, he GG'd out.
Life 2 - 3 Mvp
Game Six - Ohana
Though the score was now 2 - 3 with Life facing elimination, game six played out very similarly to game five, with both players choosing to go standard. However, this time around Mvp was unable to duel evenly with Life's speedlings, and allowed Life to take an advantage by killing hellions and forcing a cancel on a greedily placed third command center.
It was this kind of buffer that allowed Life to go directly into his preferred play, securing a fourth base while teching up to hive and brood lord tech as he had games one and two. During the three games he won, Mvp hadn't come up with an answer for how to deal with Life's brood lord tech, and found himself facing the same kind of slow, certain doom. Mvp's tank heavy composition wasn't able to get anything done before Life had his end game units, and belatedly produced vikings did pitifully little against the well-prepared Life. Mvp conceded the game, and sent the series to the final map.
Life 3 - 3 Mvp
Game Seven - Daybreak
Not surprisingly, Mvp went with blue flame hellions in the last set, having relied on them for most of his success in the series. On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
From his early pool opener, Life pretended to transition into normal three base play, but actually plotted to rush up to mutalisks to catch his opponent off guard. With Mvp going blue-flame hellions, Life faced a similar disaster as the one he faced on Antiga Shipyard, where his drones would be roasted before his mutalisks were out. But this time, Life caught whiff of Mvp's plans in time. Though it wasn't the most efficient defense in the world, Life managed to pump out enough lings to keep Mvp's hellions at bay and keep his drone losses at a manageable level.
An easily thwarted muta-ling counter attack allowed Mvp to settle into a position where he could comfortably take four bases on his half of the map while Life was left to figure out what to do with his respectable economy but useless mutalisks tech. Unable to rush for hive in a more direct way, Life decided he would play a roach-ling-infestor mid game before moving on. With Mvp comfortably producing off four bases, it looked like Life would have to handle a dangerous attack with just lair units if he was to transition to hive.
That dangerous timing turned into a brilliant turning point for Life, as he used one of his trademark backstab attacks to retake the lead when Mvp moved out. Giving up one of his expendable bases, Life initiated a backstab attack that forced Mvp to split his army into attacking and defending parts. Life then used roaches and zerglings to crush the attacking portion of Mvp's army, which was exactly what he needed for a safe transition into brood lords.
The story of the game after brood lords were out was the same as the previous three losses for Mvp. Mvp could not get sufficient anti-air up in time, and could only delay his demise as Life chipped away with his perfectly supported brood lords. With the series and championship on the line, Mvp stuck in for a few more desperation minutes than usual, but in the end he had no choice but to make way for Life on the Royal Road.
Life 4 - 3 Mvp
Writers: Waxangel. Graphics and Art: GomTV, Meko and shiroisagi. Editors: Waxangel.
I was really rooting for Mvp to win, but i guess, congratulations to Life. I'm not going to be entirely surprised if Mvp is going to go to another finals next season, as his goal this year to be 5 time champion is not yet fulfilled .
this was probably my happiest moment over the 2+ years of SC2, so happy for Life and StarTale for so many reasons, and to think it'd be in such a clutch 4-3 victory after I had started to lose hope made it even sweeter
Guys, for some reason or another, I cannot log onto gomtv to watch any gsl games. I have never been able to, the page just doesn't refresh properly, but is there anywhere other than gomtv where I can watch vods of this series?
Also, I read some people weren't particularly amazed by the series, is it worth watching having already known the results?
I feel like some of those games MVP could have won if he put his expansions behind or in his base...all those games he threw his expos either at the mineral line (resulting in him losing them) or next to his natural where roaches would 1 shot the currently constructing command centers. Good finals overall though, looks like MVP isn't getting that G5L trophy just yet.
well , not so amazing finals , not because of the players playing bad or something , just that festor+BL is the most boring thing to watch ever.
no baneling bombs , no amazing muta harrass , not a fun final in my opinion... nothing to blame on the players as they did what they had to do in order to take the series but right now SC2 may be a balanced game but its definitely stale to watch sometimes.
On October 20 2012 20:01 RyuuZer0 wrote: What if Mvp never wins a 5th GSL title?
Hahahaha!
well with all the kespa players joining the party we're gonna have a massive influx of potential champions in the near future so it'll be harder for Mvp as well
Don't forget Season 5 starts again next week starting with the Up and Dows and the schedule will be very tight because of the ro4 and finals held in Vegas at IPL in early December
That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that MVP went 1 rax expo, then 2fact bf hellion into mech or 1/1/1 into mech every single game. Every game MVP lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to kill a bunch of drones early. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss marines
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
Yeah, GJ life. I think terran has been really nerfed badly. at least turn back the snipe damage back
Entertaining finals but I really wanted MVP to win. I will be hated for this but I just thought MVP played better. With all the drone kills, missing spines, just throwing away lings and resources... No I´m not a pro but I do feel the Zerg race is a bit too much atm.
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
Yeah, GJ life. I think terran has been really nerfed badly. at least turn back the snipe damage back
"at least" yeah such a small thing the old snipedmg. What is wrong with this community.
at the end of game 5, one of my twitter friends tweeted:
"So this whole final is a SlayerS-tribute from Mvp… #GSL"
haha, so much blue flames, so much nostalgia to the Terran summer of 2011, and some mighty fine tank columns that would make GoOdy excited
I noticed in game 6, Mvp didn't rush for the Blue Flame upgrade like he did in the other games, and instead opting for the fast 3rd, the greedy play that backfired...
I definitely wanted Mvp to win, but i'm okay with Life completing his journey on the Royal Road
I've not been this happy for a player ever, and the whole Royal Road thing makes it even sweeter. Mvp played great too, however - truly a beastly performance, as well.
On October 20 2012 20:08 ManicMarine wrote: That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that MVP went 1 rax expo, then 2fact bf hellion into mech or 1/1/1 into mech every single game. Every game MVP lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to kill a bunch of drones early. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss marines
On October 20 2012 21:34 Dwayn wrote: Was kind of boring. I hate BLs, such a stupid unit design, but it's what you need to win. Life played better and deserves it .
Absolutely agree with these. MvP hardly showed any of the brilliant flexibility him and his race are known for. His defence was also so solid that it made Life's exciting lingbling composition useless, forcing him to go for 3 of the most boring units: Infestors, roaches and broodlords.
I will remember this finals for this: I started off wanting Life to win because of the Royal Road, his young age and for no more KongTale (my fave team). However, As the series progressed I began wanting MVP to win, just because of how retarded Infestor-broodlord is, both entertainment-wise and balance-wise.
Conclusion: Not a very entertaining finals due to the army compositions used by both sides. Happy for Life, but man, zerg's "win-composition" has to be the most boring yet. I hate broodlords so, so, so very much.
Congrats to Life and especially Mvp who played real great games in my opinion. I dunno why, but i kinda feel like Life did more mistakes and still won the series. At my level I definately can't say the game is imbalanced though I hope there is a new balance discussion coming up.
Gratz to life! Also, I feel bad for blizzard... not only are they tasked with balancing SC2 (not an easy task), but apparently they should be making units "exciting" as well.
Would brood lords be more exciting if they fired tank shells instead? Just make them a guardian? Or maybe if they spewed out my little ponies or something.
Seriously. I can totally understand wanting a balanced game, but to complain that a unit "isn't exciting enough" is pretty lame imo.
Thors are just a boring, only their attacks "explode" so people like them more for some reason?? bleh....
Awesome to see a 15 year old champ, again, congratz to Life!
On October 20 2012 22:05 Microsloth wrote: Gratz to life! Also, I feel bad for blizzard... not only are they tasked with balancing SC2 (not an easy task), but apparently they should be making units "exciting" as well.
Would brood lords be more exciting if they fired tank shells instead? Just make them a guardian? Or maybe if they spewed out my little ponies or something.
Seriously. I can totally understand wanting a balanced game, but to complain that a unit "isn't exciting enough" is pretty lame imo.
Thors are just a boring, only their attacks "explode" so people like them more for some reason?? bleh....
Awesome to see a 15 year old champ, again, congratz to Life!
Broodlords don't only launch projectiles, they launch little 0 food, 0 cost units that dish out massive damage in numbers, get upgrades, restrict movement, and come in droves. Combined with infestors, who ALSO have an AOE spell for restricting movement, and what do you get? An army that you can't even micro against. Yipee. This promotes deathball vs deathball. It's not only not exciting, it's downright boring and retarded, also frustrating to fight against.
On October 20 2012 22:05 Microsloth wrote: Gratz to life! Also, I feel bad for blizzard... not only are they tasked with balancing SC2 (not an easy task), but apparently they should be making units "exciting" as well.
Would brood lords be more exciting if they fired tank shells instead? Just make them a guardian? Or maybe if they spewed out my little ponies or something.
Seriously. I can totally understand wanting a balanced game, but to complain that a unit "isn't exciting enough" is pretty lame imo.
Thors are just a boring, only their attacks "explode" so people like them more for some reason?? bleh....
Awesome to see a 15 year old champ, again, congratz to Life!
Broodlords don't only launch projectiles, they launch little 0 food, 0 cost units that dish out massive damage in numbers, get upgrades, restrict movement, and come in droves. Combined with infestors, who ALSO have an AOE spell for restricting movement, and what do you get? An army that you can't even micro against. Yipee. This promotes deathball vs deathball. It's not only not exciting, it's downright boring and retarded, also frustrating to fight against.
Thanks for assuming I didn't know how the units function.
Also, I wish there was more "adapt and overcome" instead of "cry for balance".
This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
On October 20 2012 22:22 xAdra wrote: Broodlords don't only launch projectiles, they launch little 0 food, 0 cost units that dish out massive damage in numbers, get upgrades, restrict movement, and come in droves. Combined with infestors, who ALSO have an AOE spell for restricting movement, and what do you get? An army that you can't even micro against. Yipee. This promotes deathball vs deathball. It's not only not exciting, it's downright boring and retarded, also frustrating to fight against.
Hey don't diss the broodlords. They are a massive improvement over the Brood War guardian (this coming from somebody who prefers BW to SC2, by the way). I'd say the blame falls on the Infestor and its overpowered, gimmicky spells.
Back like 2-3 months BEFORE the queen patch, when early/mid agression was quite standard for both sides BL's seemed like a luxury, that made you gasp in awe when they came out.
Nowadays they're too standard imo, but enough of that Life played really well and showed he can adapt. Didn't see that much of Life's unique playstyle but oh well.
GG wp by both. I think MVP should still be considered the most accomplished/best WoL player even though he lost.
On October 20 2012 20:08 ManicMarine wrote: That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that MVP went 1 rax expo, then 2fact bf hellion into mech or 1/1/1 into mech every single game. Every game MVP lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to kill a bunch of drones early. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss marines
That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that Life went ling/infestor, then broodlord/infestor every single game. Every game Life lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to get infestor/broodlord up. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss actually exciting gameplay.
On October 20 2012 22:59 Andr3 wrote: Back like 2-3 months BEFORE the queen patch, when early/mid agression was quite standard for both sides BL's seemed like a luxury, that made you gasp in awe when they came out.
Nowadays they're too standard imo, but enough of that Life played really well and showed he can adapt. Didn't see that much of Life's unique playstyle but oh well.
GG wp by both. I think MVP should still be considered the most accomplished/best WoL player even though he lost.
Mvp already had 'best WoL' player wrapped up with his season 2 win. This finals run just put him even further up.
I think the finals were only fun to watch because of what was on the line. It was just a clash of the same build order seven times (with slight variations).
Takes me back to the amazing DRG vs. MKP rivalry, that seemed a lot more fun to watch...
Still, Life played very solid and found the strength needed after game 5, Mvp's fifth title will have to wait.
On October 20 2012 21:23 joe321 wrote: no one think Infestor is overpower？ only zerg player need do is A and control infestor F to terran army !
protoss does the same, using F with forcefield
Plus if you want to look at statistics, im pretty sure MC + MVP have won more titles/tournaments than their respective zerg players, before people whine about balance.
Amazing final! And wow, we are looking at a terrifying future Zerg-player if you ask me. Really sad to see MVP loose tough. I firmly belive that Terran players will start picking up ghosts again after this finals. Vikings aren't enough to battle against corruptors and GG-Lords with Infestor support.
Funny that everyone is bashing on life going infestor broodlord when it was MVP who went mech every single game... As you may already know the only viable composition lategame vs mech is infestor/brood/roach. Life's games in ro8 and ro4 were among the best zvts i have seen this year... Even though the games were kinda stale at times it was still an epic finals imo.
On October 20 2012 20:08 ManicMarine wrote: That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that MVP went 1 rax expo, then 2fact bf hellion into mech or 1/1/1 into mech every single game. Every game MVP lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to kill a bunch of drones early. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss marines
That was one of the silliest Bo7s I've seen in a long time. It wasn't terrible like Inca vs Nestea, but it was so boring that Life went ling/infestor, then broodlord/infestor every single game. Every game Life lost was for the same reason, and every game he won he was able to get infestor/broodlord up. Was so hyped for this finals, pretty disappointed. I miss actually exciting gameplay.
And MVP went Tank/Thor/Hellion every game. So what? What unit is he supposed to build? Life pretty much built all the units in the Zerg arsenal this series except Hydras. He made Zerglings, Roaches, Mutas, Infestors, Broodlords, Ultralisks and Corrupters. Which other units should he have built?
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
Yeah, GJ life. I think terran has been really nerfed badly. at least turn back the snipe damage back
"at least" yeah such a small thing the old snipedmg. What is wrong with this community.
I dont think subtier players realize how retarded the old snipe made TvZ at high levels. A metagame where one unit counters all zerg T3 is a bad meta.
THANKS for the quick recap of the finals, I could only stay up for the 2 games. Kind of depressing that MVP couldn't hold off a single Broodlord based composition after I've seen it done so flawlessly many times. Want to buy VOD of final GG.
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
Yeah, GJ life. I think terran has been really nerfed badly. at least turn back the snipe damage back
"at least" yeah such a small thing the old snipedmg. What is wrong with this community.
I dont think subtier players realize how retarded the old snipe made TvZ at high levels. A metagame where one unit counters all zerg T3 is a bad meta.
It was almost as bad as the old Neural made ZvP.
It never was OP, snipe only looked OP in a couple of series' by a couple of the best players in the world, they didnt even give it a chance to develop in the metagame, just nerf hammered it as soon as it looked viable, like many other strats, fucking blizzard
Very happy for Life and Startale, even though I was rooting for Mvp. Royal roading makes me hot and bothered. Finals was on at a shit time for me so I'll check the VODs now. Once again, congrats Life!
Wow, pretty damn impressive of Stalife to not only win the GSL after coming back from being inactive for a long time, but to also do so after switching from Terran to Zerg!
So, can we just sum up that the zerg won the games where he successfully teched to broodlord / corruptor / infestor and lost the rest? Or the terran lost all the games where he allowed the zerg to tech to broodlord / corruptor / infestor and won the rest?
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
No agressive play? Life opened early pool twice and was always searching for backstabs and openings and kept Mvp at his base for as long as possible. Blame Mvp for going mech EVERY single game if you didn't like passive play.
I don't think it was life's fault, he was agressive, there's just no other way to kill mech at lategame without brood lords, specially with so many tanks
On October 21 2012 00:36 JustPassingBy wrote: So, can we just sum up that the zerg won the games where he successfully teched to broodlord / corruptor / infestor and lost the rest? Or the terran lost all the games where he allowed the zerg to tech to broodlord / corruptor / infestor and won the rest?
pretty much. i kinda feel that the whole series was too 1 dimensional and didn't have much variety. straight up mech vs broodlord/corruptor/infestor. i was hoping mvp with spice things up a bit or life would try something insane but it didn't happen. but then again, it's all for the sake of winning so i guess they both just made compositions that they know will win the game for them.
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
Haha, watch the games before you whine. As i recall it was Life who was the agressor throughout most of the series. The only real agression MVP did was trying to roast drones in the early part of the game, rest of the games he turtled heavily. Gongratz Life!
Managed to spoil myself, so no idea how exciting the finals really were. Slightly repetative with really similar builds - from both players throughout the series, but to me it looked like they were really evenly matched. I was betting on MVP winning, but hoped Life would win, so gratz Life! He won himself some of the games with nice tech switching to Ultralisks.
I am looking forward to HotS with it's new units, because I think the metagame is becoming a little stale. I dislike that the whole low use of the Battlecruiser and Carrier. Both Zerg and Terran air-to-air seems a bit too strong, probably due to the Colossi.
On October 21 2012 01:15 Freezd wrote: The entire series was patchzerg/ling vs hellion bio/ with some mech thrown in.
Bio with some match thrown in? Did you even watch the games at all? If you think it is "Bio" when Terran makes few Marines at the start and a BUNKER, then yeah, there was a Bio play in all 7 games... And some mech? He used Mech every single game.
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
No agressive play? Life opened early pool twice and was always searching for backstabs and openings and kept Mvp at his base for as long as possible. Blame Mvp for going mech EVERY single game if you didn't like passive play.
I don't think it was life's fault, he was agressive, there's just no other way to kill mech at lategame without brood lords, specially with so many tanks
The problem is though that early aggression just doesn't cut it for terrans with queens like they are now. this range buff killed a lot of terran openings. The style we see thus is more lategamefocused with a lot of turtling from T. And Z really can't break a Terran defense without Blords. And there we go with this finals.
I rooted for MVP but I can't say Life didn't deserve it. congratz
it's a shame the outcome of the Finals are on TL's front page. Spoiler alert, someone? It's the first thing I read this morning and I would have liked to keep the results hidden until I viewed the games...
I don't know what is going on with all the people saying "GG I guess..." or "boring games". The builds may have been just about the same every game, but the micro and tactics and harass from both players made the finals so intense. Very exciting games. Congratulations Life!
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
No agressive play? Life opened early pool twice and was always searching for backstabs and openings and kept Mvp at his base for as long as possible. Blame Mvp for going mech EVERY single game if you didn't like passive play.
I don't think it was life's fault, he was agressive, there's just no other way to kill mech at lategame without brood lords, specially with so many tanks
The problem is though that early aggression just doesn't cut it for terrans with queens like they are now. this range buff killed a lot of terran openings. The style we see thus is more lategamefocused with a lot of turtling from T. And Z really can't break a Terran defense without Blords. And there we go with this finals.
I rooted for MVP but I can't say Life didn't deserve it. congratz
Bullshit. Plenty of Terrans still play aggressive. MVP has either been cheesing or turtling against Zerg for over a year now. It's his style. Before the finals all the fanboys were saying he was the perfect counter to Life's aggressive play, because he's the master of turtling.
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
lol did you even watch the games? wtf i don't even..
On October 21 2012 00:35 bsdaemon wrote: i thought life said he wouldn't kiss the trophy and just hold it? lol.
Yeah and then the MC made it a point to say, "now we will have the OBLIGATORY trophy kiss ceremony." which just made me laugh, because life couldn't decide whether to kiss it or not.
I think it's crazy that someone can lose 40 drones and still win the game. The production ability of Zerg is just insane and late game zerg is just as crazy. Not to say that Terran doesn't have it's issues.
Anyways... GG to life... you have to give it to him, he just beat one of the best (if not "currently" the best) players in the world.
THAT WAS SUCH AN EPIC FINALS>my hands are shaking from the epicness all over the place. MVP is so frickin good vs zerg it isnt even real and life is a scary mofo who basically requires perfect execution and prediction to kill.
MVP had so many brilliant plays and i think the finals recapper failed to mention that if MVP split his vikings in the first two games than he may of been able to win. in addition, it should have been noted that the exact amount of MVPs drone kills(anywhere from 11-40) strongly predicted how the game would play out, and that the BFH build got dimishing returns. Also you can't say
On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
Slightly puzzling? That shuts down any greediness or early 2rax, the two scary things terran players and MVP have shown they like to pull out at crunch time.
SUCH A GOOD FINALS though. and the recap is by no means bad. And I think in the first games MVP may have disillusioned himself into thinking that he could hide his vikings behind siege tanks so they couldn't get fungled, but that didn't work.
Life is good. Mvp is so good. SC2 is so good. Dying? in the same way Life is dying(hint: Life is 15 and the average human lifespan is more than 3 times that so haha)
On October 21 2012 01:53 Bippzy wrote: THAT WAS SUCH AN EPIC FINALS>my hands are shaking from the epicness all over the place. MVP is so frickin good vs zerg it isnt even real and life is a scary mofo who basically requires perfect execution and prediction to kill.
MVP had so many brilliant plays and i think the finals recapper failed to mention that if MVP split his vikings in the first two games than he may of been able to win. in addition, it should have been noted that the exact amount of MVPs drone kills(anywhere from 11-40) strongly predicted how the game would play out, and that the BFH build got dimishing returns. Also you can't say
On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
Slightly puzzling? That shuts down any greediness or early 2rax, the two scary things terran players and MVP have shown they like to pull out at crunch time.
SUCH A GOOD FINALS though. and the recap is by no means bad. And I think in the first games MVP may have disillusioned himself into thinking that he could hide his vikings behind siege tanks so they couldn't get fungled, but that didn't work.
Life is good. Mvp is so good. SC2 is so good. Dying? in the same way Life is dying(hint: Life is 15 and the average human lifespan is more than 3 times that so haha)
good finals? hardly. close score but the games were one-sided with sloppy play from both sides throughout the series. The fact that the underdog won through great perseverance and mechanics made it an OK finals
On October 20 2012 22:40 pimsc2 wrote: This was a terrible final… We really see how zergs mindset is right now. No micro, no agressive play, just pure boring & passive defensive macro style into even more boring & passive broodlord infestors deathballs… And it works, even if you make more mistakes than your opponent. Thanks David Kim for your great work. I'm gonna watch older GSL games, they were a lot more entertaining back then, and more rewarding for the great players like the Mvp.
lol did you even watch the games? wtf i don't even..
Really nice play by both of them, happy with Life taking a championship , IM have enough for now haha. The build orders might not have been that varied but the games were still exciting and it could have easily gone either way.
The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
On October 21 2012 01:57 IcemanAsi wrote: SON OF A BITCH! SPOILERS!
What the hell is wrong with you guys?! Putting that kind of spoiler on the front page?! FFS!
..click the the hide spoiler box?
A. What spoiler box?! B. Why isn't that damn thing clicked by defult?! . . . . found the box, think it could be more hidden?! It should be part of profile settings and be turned on as defult.
On October 20 2012 22:59 Andr3 wrote: Back like 2-3 months BEFORE the queen patch, when early/mid agression was quite standard for both sides BL's seemed like a luxury, that made you gasp in awe when they came out.
2-3 months? Its 5 months + get over it. Terran arguments are all pathetic and disrespectful - why dont you get BL "free" units are not that huge? What is the option here? Give the Bl a direct attack with some splash? because splash is needed, mass tier1 units would be OP as hell imagine just marine/medivac armys. 5k minerals income and 30 rax with reactor.
People say omg noobzerg, turtles for BL etc. but Life tried to be agressive, actually lifting up buildings or wallin is enough for terran to stop that which is ridiculous. 3-4 Vikings +1 turret at every mineral patch are enough to stop muta harass. Bunkers with massrepair, Planeterys with mass repair. We saw several tries to be agressive even if he was behind but nothing worked.
Lets be honest, terran is the turtling race and imagine Life wouldnt lose so much every single game to blueflame - we would see completely other games and he proved it, hes able to play a another style of zerg.
Although this was a 7 game series I felt the games themselves were fairly one-sided; game seven was probably the only game that was somewhat close. Every game was essentially MVP doing some harass and then hitting his mech timing and either winning the game with the attack, or losing the game shortly after the attack was defended. There was never a situation where both players came out even after a major engagement.
On October 21 2012 02:27 Akash1223 wrote: Although this was a 7 game series I felt the games themselves were fairly one-sided; game seven was probably the only game that was somewhat close. Every game was essentially MVP doing some harass and then hitting his mech timing and either winning the game with the attack, or losing the game shortly after the attack was defended. There was never a situation where both players came out even after a major engagement.
Isn't that the case for a lot of the games? It comes down to timings or that big engagement.
On October 21 2012 01:53 Bippzy wrote: THAT WAS SUCH AN EPIC FINALS>my hands are shaking from the epicness all over the place. MVP is so frickin good vs zerg it isnt even real and life is a scary mofo who basically requires perfect execution and prediction to kill.
MVP had so many brilliant plays and i think the finals recapper failed to mention that if MVP split his vikings in the first two games than he may of been able to win. in addition, it should have been noted that the exact amount of MVPs drone kills(anywhere from 11-40) strongly predicted how the game would play out, and that the BFH build got dimishing returns. Also you can't say
On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
Slightly puzzling? That shuts down any greediness or early 2rax, the two scary things terran players and MVP have shown they like to pull out at crunch time.
SUCH A GOOD FINALS though. and the recap is by no means bad. And I think in the first games MVP may have disillusioned himself into thinking that he could hide his vikings behind siege tanks so they couldn't get fungled, but that didn't work.
Life is good. Mvp is so good. SC2 is so good. Dying? in the same way Life is dying(hint: Life is 15 and the average human lifespan is more than 3 times that so haha)
good finals? hardly. close score but the games were one-sided with sloppy play from both sides throughout the series. The fact that the underdog won through great perseverance and mechanics made it an OK finals
At the pinnacle of skill both of the players were playing at, the mistakes were nearly forced considering the circumstances. It was a great finals. I don't even see the onesidedness you speak of, remarkable things had to be done by the player with the a higher supply to even begin to look like they were winning.
lucky for the zenex disband. startale couldve been a long time until startale was good enough for a title. lifes always been a pretty consistent player. well deserved victory.
Some say that Life won this season because of his style, and how unusual it was and that no one knows how to go against it probably. I disagree. If you look at it on paper, Mvp's style should counter Life's ling heavy, very aggressive style pretty handily, but that was not the case all of the time. Look at the games Mvp won, and how much he turtled and how much damage he did you kill Life. The fact that Life was able to defeat the counter-style of his style was amazing, and shows a lot of skill in my eyes.
As a mech player I was thoroughly disappointed in MVP's play. You have to drop 2-3 starports if you are going to move out with a maxed Mech army, to be prepared for the BroodLord switch. This is how MVP lost games 1 and 2.
Also, SIEGE YOUR TANKS MVP wtfffff. If you don't siege the tanks to zone out the infestors, they can just walk in and fungal your vikings + throw swarm eggs all over your tanks. Not to mention MVP never built Thors to go with his siege tank army. Thors are awesome for holding of BL's and shooting clumped up corrupters.
Lastly, why didn't MVP use AUTO-REPAIR ?! Send like 5 scv's with your maxed army, and set them to auto-repair so your units stay strong. MVP repeatedly let his tanks and hellions get into the red and then tried to take positions with them on the map. This is not smart play, and shows that MVP hasn't thought out his strategies thoroughly. I expected more from the 4-time champ who is renowned for his strategizing in 7-game series'.
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
Mvp forced Life into BL/Infestor with his mech composition. What other composition do you suggest against mech?
I feel like G7 was the only game really worth watching. Life probably could have won 4-0 if he just stuck to infestor bl. The fact that MVP went mech every game was a bit weird but probably due to his injury so it makes sense that he did, but he did the same openings every time and I feel like Life should have picked up it and just gone early spire muta harass into infestor broodlord. I'm impressed with how well he did against blueflame hellion harass with pretty much just lings and queens, after the first huge harass where MVP got 29 drone kills Life caught on and it became more ineffective. G7 was really well played by LIfe though, I think it showed that he understood what MVP's mindset was and how to crush him. The transition from roaches into mutas back into roaches and then into BL's was really cool to watch and completely caught MVP off guard. Maybe it was because it was 5:00AM and I was still drunk, but the whole series, and G7 specifically, was an amazing thing to watch. Mostly because he's the first Royal Roader and doing it against MVP, even an injured MVP is something incredible.
Also in the Mech style that MVP chose, mass tanks and a sprinkling of thors and vikings, there really isn't a case where you come out even from an engagement. You either push back the more mobile zerg army or you get trampled. For either side there wasn't the unit composition where you can commit and then decide that it isn't going in your favor and back out, lick your wounds and regroup, especially Mech against Ling / Infestor / BL, when those fights were over Life can just remax super fast, and he usually had corruptors left over that he could morph real quick, also he had burrow just about every game I recall so the infestors were able to get away and MVP didn't have the mobility to capitalize on the energyless infestors.
And in every game that Life didn't go BL's MVP's sheer tank production took over and allowed him to push Life back and gg him.
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
MVP did a good job in the last game, I believe it was, with his viking spread, he had almost a full 180 degree spread shooting down the BL's. But as it's been said elsewhere he needed to change up his comp a bit more, less siege tanks and more thors. The hellions helped tremendously but he was never really prepared for an air army.
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
you know asspained zergs/protoss said the same thing every time MVP won a GSL right? the reality is much simpler than all this convoluted balance whining - MVP and Life are both really good players, and Life won a series between them
it's not some big expression of all the evils in the world..it's just one guy winning a series over another guy if you want to imply that Life didn't work obscenely hard or play ridiculously well, you're just being a dick
As much of an Mvp and IM fan that I am, Life deserves his accomplishment. Not only that but I don't feel bitter at all, he's a talented kid with a great future in esports, and the parallels to him and Flash are easy to draw given their youth at the time they won their first major starleague. It's cool to think that we actually have a Royal Roader now as well as Startale feeling much happier as a team for finally having a champion. Startale has been a great team with tons of memorable players over the past few years since SC2 came out, I still remember seeing them in the GSTL finals. They deserve it and hopefully it brings out more fight in Life and the other players on his team so that they can win even more championships.
As for Mvp, I'm sure he's feeling bitter about missing the chance to have that G5L trophy, but in due time I have no doubt he will get his hands on it. People have missed the chance to get a golden mouse and gotten it later, I believe eventually Mvp will get it.
Well that's a bit surprising. I think this is a good lesson to Terrans: Mech still isn't the best choice vs zerg. Hell, mech wasn't even used at all much until the HoTS beta came out. This also shows how good BL's are still.
Even though it wasn't the best series ever (certainly not on par with DRG vs MMA in the blizzard cup or Leenock vs Jjakji GSL november) and I've seen more impressive TVZ series from MVP (namely him vs leenock all the time), it certainly was a good one, better than MC vs Seed for sure or Inca vs Nestea (the horror...). For those who whine about zergs turtling, it's actually terrans who turtle with mech, not the opposite. And saying that when the zerg is none other than Life, the most agressive and proactive player I've seen, it just doesn't make sense: he was constantly everywhere on the map, cancelling CCs and destroying expensions left and right, abusing his mobility vs mech's slow pace. As a zerg I do think a nerf is in order, but Life has always been a pre-patch lair agressive player, I'm convinced he would have been in the same situation regardless of balance issues.
Really happy for god who played the best Zerg I've ever seen. Sorta feel like MVP threw that last game away after a significant lead though, so I am sad for him. Great finals and great story.
On October 21 2012 03:19 DreamTheaterFan wrote: Even though it wasn't the best series ever (certainly not on par with DRG vs MMA in the blizzard cup or Leenock vs Jjakji GSL november) and I've seen more impressive TVZ series from MVP (namely him vs leenock all the time), it certainly was a good one, better than MC vs Seed for sure or Inca vs Nestea (the horror...). For those who whine about zergs turtling, it's actually terrans who turtle with mech, not the opposite. And saying that when the zerg is none other than Life, the most agressive and proactive player I've seen, it just doesn't make sense: he was constantly everywhere on the map, cancelling CCs and destroying expensions left and right, abusing his mobility vs mech's slow pace. As a zerg I do think a nerf is in order, but Life has always been a pre-patch lair agressive player, I'm convinced he would have been in the same situation regardless of balance issues.
GG to both!
The only good thing about MMA vs DRG was the last game.
honestly the reason mvp lost was because he attacked lifes 5th instead of defending his fourth on the last game. he would have defended easily and maxed and attacked,with lifes low energy infestors and no brood tech yet or just finishing and would have crushed him such a shame gj to life...... i guess
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
"Didn't like the finals much... wanted MVP to win... balance aside." This is the first post... so sad.
The finals reminded me how little I like those comps and how much more exciting bio vs ling/bane/muta was. I feel like the back and forth tension makes the game so much more interesting then economic advantage into the better unit comp into automatic win.
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
Mvp forced Life into BL/Infestor with his mech composition. What other composition do you suggest against mech?
Glad Life won, but the games we'rent all that great. Some we're good, but I can't call losing 20+ Drones in all the games to Hellions because you're too stubborn to make a Roach Warren stellar play. Mvp vs Squirtle was way better.
I liked the "I don't understand why people kiss the trophy. I just want to hold it." in the interviews pre-game, and then you get on teamliquid and featured news image is him kissing the trophy haha.
On October 21 2012 04:48 Names wrote: I liked the "I don't understand why people kiss the trophy. I just want to hold it." in the interviews pre-game, and then you get on teamliquid and featured news image is him kissing the trophy haha.
I noticed that too ! Well, you (Life) maybe don't get it until you finally get your hands on this trophy !
Congrats to life on showing some great results and winning but after watching the vods it's clear late game balence hurt mvps's chances might be time to un nerf snipe for ghosts
On October 21 2012 04:48 Names wrote: I liked the "I don't understand why people kiss the trophy. I just want to hold it." in the interviews pre-game, and then you get on teamliquid and featured news image is him kissing the trophy haha.
He probably stood on the stage looking at it and thought "Oh, this is why people kiss the trophy. Because it's the sexiest thing I've ever seen in my life."
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
On October 21 2012 04:48 Names wrote: I liked the "I don't understand why people kiss the trophy. I just want to hold it." in the interviews pre-game, and then you get on teamliquid and featured news image is him kissing the trophy haha.
I noticed that too ! Well, you (Life) maybe don't get it until you finally get your hands on this trophy !
Or it might have something to do with the fact that the award ceremony ends with "And now it is time for the obligatory trophy kissing ceremony", as translated by Snowbird.
Great Finals! As I was routing for MVP, him winning would be the only thing to make it better but I am happy for startale and certainly Life. Life definitely proved himself to be an excellent player this season. I'm not a zerg player so I didn't realize until the finals who great a player he really is. He might have taken out Taeja and MKP with cheesy play but now I think, as Tastosis said, that he was jsut responding to their play-style. Bravo Life
Infestor/Broodlord is probably the most powerful composition in the game. But it was MVP's fault that he produced tanks non-stop and refused to throw down extra starports in the games he lost (which would have given him the best chance against the comp).
Why are we blaming balance, when it was MVP's style that forced BL/Infestor in almost every game...?
On October 21 2012 02:17 Shinespark wrote: The best terran in the world knew what his opponent would do on every map. He still couldn't stop it even though he played like a god. Defended cheese on the last map and then mutas that did absolutely nothing but kill a depot and he still lost. Taeja said so on an interview just the other day, brood lord infestor is unbeatable.
how dare you come here and tell people the truth
What about last season? Or the season before that? Beatable then, huh? Its so funny how zerg wins one GSL out of the last 3, and 2 out of the last 7 or something, and everybody whines like a bitch. Why did MVP have to go mech and turtle every game? Why didn't he make some starports instead of an insane amount of tanks? I will remind you, the series was very close. There is no other answer for Mech, MVP made the decision and Life reacted.
Look at the # of zergs in Code A up and downs, and the number that made it through code A....the most underrepresented race....wow, how could that be when broodlord infestor is unbeatable? So biased and idiotic.
I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
Edit: The above post is pretty indicative of the posts of the whiney idiots who came to post in here after MVP, who hasn't been dominant for quite a while (despite winning a GSL), lost to a Zerg who's been outclassing just about everyone he's faced, including a much better TvZ'er in the semis, for the past two months. Terran does have it tough in the late game no doubt, but Terran still had 2 of 4 spots in the semis of the GSL, so do everyone a favor and, at least in zerg players fan clubs, STFU and GTF out of here with balance whine. Thanks.
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
Edit: The above post is pretty indicative of the posts of the whiney idiots who came to post in here after MVP, who hasn't been dominant for quite a while (despite winning a GSL), lost to a Zerg who's been outclassing just about everyone he's faced, including a much better TvZ'er in the semis, for the past two months. Terran does have it tough in the late game no doubt, but Terran still had 2 of 4 spots in the semis of the GSL, so do everyone a favor and, at least in zerg players fan clubs, STFU and GTF out of here with balance whine. Thanks.
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
I see you've met an important part of everyday life - taste and opinion. I am sorry if my opinion of these games is 'wrong' because you didn't like it.
Mvp didn't go mech each game and thus made hellions - he purposely got a second factory to get the Infernal Preigniter. Standard mech play involves getting only one Reactor Factory for hellions and not Infernal Preigniter - Mvp purposely over-made hellions to counter Life's ling style in almost every game he played.
Yes, I watched the games. It was Life against a couple of oblivious Terrans - Taeja and Marineking, who were not aware of Life's aggressive style therefore attempted to play their typical TvZ and lost. I doubt Life would've lasted through Round of 16/8 if he played Terrans who specifically prepared for his style and not just play a couple of practice matches to keep their fingers warmed up.
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
I see you've met an important part of everyday life - taste and opinion. I am sorry if my opinion of these games is 'wrong' because you didn't like it.
Mvp didn't go mech each game and thus made hellions - he purposely got a second factory to get the Infernal Preigniter. Standard mech play involves getting only one Reactor Factory for hellions and not Infernal Preigniter - Mvp purposely over-made hellions to counter Life's ling style in almost every game he played.
Yes, I watched the games. It was Life against a couple of oblivious Terrans - Taeja and Marineking, who were not aware of Life's aggressive style therefore attempted to play their typical TvZ and lost. I doubt Life would've lasted through Round of 16/8 if he played Terrans who specifically prepared for his style and not just play a couple of practice matches to keep their fingers warmed up.
I like how you claim one thing and MKP's interview claims the opposite. Should I trust the random scrub on the forums who says things about players, or what the players actually say?
Watched it, but I'm gonna take a break from GSL, till HotS most likely. While the MU may be balanced, I really want to see something else than infestors every game. (Heck, even Tastetosis got bored with watching the energy bars of those bugs and trying to count how much more fungals and IT we must endure, until something like a fight can happen...)
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
I see you've met an important part of everyday life - taste and opinion. I am sorry if my opinion of these games is 'wrong' because you didn't like it.
Mvp didn't go mech each game and thus made hellions - he purposely got a second factory to get the Infernal Preigniter. Standard mech play involves getting only one Reactor Factory for hellions and not Infernal Preigniter - Mvp purposely over-made hellions to counter Life's ling style in almost every game he played.
Yes, I watched the games. It was Life against a couple of oblivious Terrans - Taeja and Marineking, who were not aware of Life's aggressive style therefore attempted to play their typical TvZ and lost. I doubt Life would've lasted through Round of 16/8 if he played Terrans who specifically prepared for his style and not just play a couple of practice matches to keep their fingers warmed up.
I like how you claim one thing and MKP's interview claims the opposite. Should I trust the random scrub on the forums who says things about players, or what the players actually say?
Well, if that's your favorite emotional outlet - you can also get pissed over somebody's analysis and post about it on Team Liquid. It's up to you.
it seems sc2 pro players haven't yet reached to so-called S-class level. So many mistakes here and there. Life had so many opportunities to drop zerglings into MVP's base given that his mech was immobile. MVP neglecting to use ghosts to defend infestor pressure (before broodlords). There are so many possibilities yet to discover I hope they gonna step up their games.
On October 21 2012 06:10 NMxSardines wrote: I didn't like the finals at all. It was just a constant game of 'Mvp gets hellions, Life loses' or 'Life gets Brood Lords, Mvp loses.' At some point, their weaknesses were so distinct that it makes me wonder how either of them even got to the finals.
This post is silly and wrong. MVP went mech each game and thus built hellions each game. In the final game he made lots of hellions (instead of just a couple), did a fair amount of damage and still lost. Life stomped everyone he faced up to the finals, so it's idiotic to question his past performances. I doubt you even watched the games.
I see you've met an important part of everyday life - taste and opinion. I am sorry if my opinion of these games is 'wrong' because you didn't like it.
Mvp didn't go mech each game and thus made hellions - he purposely got a second factory to get the Infernal Preigniter. Standard mech play involves getting only one Reactor Factory for hellions and not Infernal Preigniter - Mvp purposely over-made hellions to counter Life's ling style in almost every game he played.
Yes, I watched the games. It was Life against a couple of oblivious Terrans - Taeja and Marineking, who were not aware of Life's aggressive style therefore attempted to play their typical TvZ and lost. I doubt Life would've lasted through Round of 16/8 if he played Terrans who specifically prepared for his style and not just play a couple of practice matches to keep their fingers warmed up.
I like how you claim one thing and MKP's interview claims the opposite. Should I trust the random scrub on the forums who says things about players, or what the players actually say?
Well, if that's your favorite emotional outlet - you can also get pissed over somebody's analysis and post about it on Team Liquid. It's up to you.
Maybe I'll write an angry post on Reddit that will receive no responses!
But seriously, you're just wrong. MKP knew about Life's aggressive style but he is not flexible enough to develop counters; the same applies to Taeja. Mvp did do it but he is an anomaly since he knows how to play every style optimally.
Great finals, but basically every game came down to one question: how much damage can MVP do with his blue-flame hellions. If he did, he gets a gigantic, scary army like on Abyssal City and no Zerg in the universe can stop it and he wins the game. Or, Life defends it well enough that when he has Broodlords out, MVP has like 25 tanks and 4 vikings out, like what happened on Ohana.
Amazing to see how great players can make such small differences early turn into huge game-changing factors later on.
Why is everyone blaming balance for MVP? He played the same strat or a similar derivation every single game. He chose a one-dimensional playstyle, and Life properly responded. Grats to ST_Life.
Personnaly, i think MVP was completely off mechanically. He was the better player strategically but he couldn't do what he wanted to do because he was limited by his hands (he never played bio in his bo7). his macro was off and he did some tactical mistakes, but i think his mind wasn't clear with all the pain. I'm really tired with all this " games were boring", "infestors are imba", etc. It really depressing, immature whining is killing sc2.
on the other hand Life is a monster mechanically and a good tactical player, but he was schooled by MVP strategically
at the end of the day, the better player won. Even if it was not a 100% MVP, you have to give credit to the kid, a handicaped MVP can beat anyone in a final ( hi squirtle).
On October 21 2012 09:02 Befall wrote: Why is everyone blaming balance for MVP? He played the same strat or a similar derivation every single game. He chose a one-dimensional playstyle, and Life properly responded. Grats to ST_Life.
In fact Mvp basically figured Life's style out. Even in 7th game he had pretty little advantage all game long before he made a mistake by suciding his units for Life's 4th base. Overall, it's pretty close series but Mvp just made more costly mistake that costed him the game. I respect both players. They are both great players.
On October 21 2012 09:26 Samhax wrote: Personnaly, i think MVP was completely off mechanically. He was the better player strategically but he couldn't do what he wanted to do because he was limited by his hands (he never played bio in his bo7). his macro was off and he did some tactical mistakes, but i think his mind wasn't clear with all the pain. I'm really tired with all this " games were boring", "infestors are imba", etc. It really depressing, immature whining is killing sc2.
on the other hand Life is a monster mechanically and a good tactical player, but he was schooled by MVP strategically
at the end of the day, the better player won. Even if it was not a 100% MVP, you have to give credit to the kid, a handicaped MVP can beat anyone in a final ( hi squirtle).
I think Mvp can go bio (he did vs Symbol) and people are reading too much into this injury thing. Yes, he is injured and cannot practice as much but Mvp still can play bio tank. Problem is that with bio tank you are hoping the Zerg makes a mistake or they can't deal with multi pronge harass. If your drop play doesn't do damage, there is also no timing to hit per BL. We just saw Life steamrolling through MKP, Taeja who are the 2 best bio users in the world. And considering Mvp won 3 games with mech, I think his choice was correct.
On October 21 2012 09:26 Samhax wrote: Personnaly, i think MVP was completely off mechanically. He was the better player strategically but he couldn't do what he wanted to do because he was limited by his hands (he never played bio in his bo7). his macro was off and he did some tactical mistakes, but i think his mind wasn't clear with all the pain. I'm really tired with all this " games were boring", "infestors are imba", etc. It really depressing, immature whining is killing sc2.
on the other hand Life is a monster mechanically and a good tactical player, but he was schooled by MVP strategically
at the end of the day, the better player won. Even if it was not a 100% MVP, you have to give credit to the kid, a handicaped MVP can beat anyone in a final ( hi squirtle).
I think Mvp can go bio (he did vs Symbol) and people are reading too much into this injury thing. Yes, he is injured and cannot practice as much but Mvp still can play bio tank. Problem is that with bio tank you are hoping the Zerg makes a mistake or they can't deal with multi pronge harass. If your drop play doesn't do damage, there is also no timing to hit per BL. We just saw Life steamrolling through MKP, Taeja who are the 2 best bio users in the world. And considering Mvp won 3 games with mech, I think his choice was correct.
but going mech in all 7games is not working either if u watch game 6 and 7 it was clear that life figured out mvp's mech style
Yikes Mvp just not preparing enough anti-air every single time he lost! I felt like it was almost a build order thing... because he always had like 15 tanks taking on broodlings and like no thors and 5 viking. Is it just me or did that happen every time life won?
On October 21 2012 12:51 GrandMaster_07 wrote: Not that I am trying to troll or anything but Life seems to be licking his trophy instead of kissing it (in the cover picture).
He's 15-years-old. This was probably his first time making out with something. Give him a break.
Seeing life's 10 pool and Mutas fail and then losing 25 drones and still able to pump roaches and brood lords quite honestly has made me a bit skeptical. Zerg seems to be incredibly forgiving at the moment
MVP really threw those games away. He barely made any thors, and instead just made a ton of siege tanks every time. His vikings were always super late too so he never had any anti air. Not sure why he was so set on making tanks non stop :/.
On October 21 2012 15:59 Horuku wrote: MVP really threw those games away. He barely made any thors, and instead just made a ton of siege tanks every time. His vikings were always super late too so he never had any anti air. Not sure why he was so set on making tanks non stop :/.
Agreed. I'm so disappointed with MVP. I was crying in game 1, when MVP had gone almost pure tanks (!?!?). Then he scouts the broodlords... and yet keep making 3 tanks at a time for the rest of the game. His tanks melted and wasn't costeffective at all.
I feel like it would be another story if he had like 5-10 thors.. 3/3 thors are actually decent against 1/0 broodlords... and forces zerg into some difficult airsplitting.
If he really is the master of build orders, then he shouldnt have gone mech 7 times in a row.. cause his lategame-mechplay wasnt impressive in my eyes.
Grats to Life, he honestly didn't look half as good in these finals as all the lead up games since his 'style' wasn't really on display for the games he won. But he still looked better than MVP on the day overall since MVP made some critical errors in composition.
But yeah, despite being 4-3, all of the games of this finals weren't terribly interesting compared to others. Only a couple felt like the advantage shifted at some point.
:'-( So sad... Now more than ever I feel that TvZ late-game needs to be rebalanced =/ I hope Mvp will get there eventually, and as a fan I will always be behind him!
i have to say the games were so boring even though it went 4-3 that i ended up not even watching the last two games and instead browsing the web most of the time
basically you know who will win 95% of the time after the first harass and then you can watch it play out gruesomely slow for the next 20 minutes...
if terran doesnt do huge damage harassing then zerg will win with its ridic overpowered late game comp. if terran kills 50 drones early on then terran will win because he can push before zerg gets that comp
drop defense is so easy for zerg and harass options so limited that games just dont get turned around later on any more
infestors being so ridiculously overpowered that they make banelings and mutas unnecessary thus taking out two very fun to watch units in favor of OMG ANOTHER PERFECT FUNGAL YAY
its the same "watch shit turn green and die to gglords" every lategame and micro-wise i see players do pretty much the same to me in diamond league so its really hard to get excited over it...
On October 21 2012 19:36 summerloud wrote: i have to say the games were so boring even though it went 4-3 that i ended up not even watching the last two games and instead browsing the web most of the time
basically you know who will win 95% of the time after the first harass and then you can watch it play out gruesomely slow for the next 20 minutes...
if terran doesnt do huge damage harassing then zerg will win with its ridic overpowered late game comp. if terran kills 50 drones early on then terran will win because he can push before zerg gets that comp
drop defense is so easy for zerg and harass options so limited that games just dont get turned around later on any more
infestors being so ridiculously overpowered that they make banelings and mutas unnecessary thus taking out two very fun to watch units in favor of OMG ANOTHER PERFECT FUNGAL YAY
its the same "watch shit turn green and die to gglords" every lategame and micro-wise i see players do pretty much the same to me in diamond league so its really hard to get excited over it...
i agree that infestors are less fun to watch than muta/bling. But i disagree about the lategame being completely unwinnable for Terran; MVP in this series played far from perfect, he did some crucial mistakes, basically he never had a optimal late game composition :
-no Thor to help the vikings againt corruptors -no ghost to emp infestors, even if at sometimes he had the economy to do it -no raven, PDD is really good against corruptors and seekers missile is also good against broodlords
it would be legit to whine if MVP played perfectly and lost but it was not the case at all.
On October 21 2012 01:57 IcemanAsi wrote: SON OF A BITCH! SPOILERS!
What the hell is wrong with you guys?! Putting that kind of spoiler on the front page?! FFS!
Get over it, it's the same with every sport on the planet, you're just going to have to suck it up if you didn't watch it live
Yeah, guess why people are shying from news, tvs, internet etc if they recorded a game! It's to dodge spoilers, just like TL.net is a news site you should regard it in the same way, dodge it if you dont want spoils from the "stanley cup" of starcraft 2
I thought either MVP would win in a close series because of his experience and success in them or Life would steamroll MVP because of his superior mechanics. Seems like it didn't turn out either way.
Did I watch a completely different series from everyone else? Personally, I thought this was the best finals yet. The story was there, the score 4-3 was there. As for the games, I thought that they were noticeably different different from typical TvZ.
For 1 thing, life did not simply defend the hellion or hellion/banshee harass for the first 20 minutes and win with BL/infestor. He was contesting the map with lings, always looking for counter attacks (although he didn't get them too often vs. the solid mech play from MVP) and keeping the hellions off of his mineral lines for most of the games that he won. When MVP won, he was able to get decent drone kills early on.
The ling heavy style itself was another interesting thing. Life delays his roaches for quite some time every game (unlike most zergs that play against mech) and still manages to deflect the 2 fact attacks while allowing himself counterattack opportunities. His ling/infestor control was the best that I've seen in a long time.
Even when BL compositions were used, they weren't the same "turtle to 5 base make 20 BL's and go" games.Life always had supporting lings or roaches that were hitting another location. In fact, I would say Life was almost wasteful with his BL armies. Not wasteful in the sense of suiciding them, but in the sense that he didn't rely on them very heavily and could afford to lose them in many situations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Life ever remaxing on BL infestor.
There was rarely an idle moment in these games. It seemed like there was always something happening on screen that would have an impact on the outcome.
tl;dr: I loved these finals because Life's play looked inspiring, despite what most people think of the games ^.^ The story was good too!
On October 21 2012 09:26 Samhax wrote: Personnaly, i think MVP was completely off mechanically. He was the better player strategically but he couldn't do what he wanted to do because he was limited by his hands (he never played bio in his bo7). his macro was off and he did some tactical mistakes, but i think his mind wasn't clear with all the pain. I'm really tired with all this " games were boring", "infestors are imba", etc. It really depressing, immature whining is killing sc2.
on the other hand Life is a monster mechanically and a good tactical player, but he was schooled by MVP strategically
at the end of the day, the better player won. Even if it was not a 100% MVP, you have to give credit to the kid, a handicaped MVP can beat anyone in a final ( hi squirtle).
Watched VODs and you are right. MVP's builds and/or macro were completely off, from the game 1 where I saw his mineral piling over 1.5K and gas nearly 1K. And that was during early-mid game when he only had 2 bases. Casters did not mention that (understandable), but throughout the series MVP's macro was total crap.
He was still able to almost win it, which is a testament to his skill and game understanding, but it made a lackluster series where Life got away with so many mistakes. (which, ironically, aren't really mistakes for Life since he is so fast that he can afford to waste some units here and there -> a testament to his skill as well)
I just think the games would have been better quality had MVP showed up with a better condition.
On October 22 2012 03:59 TheGGparadox wrote: Did I watch a completely different series from everyone else? Personally, I thought this was the best finals yet. The story was there, the score 4-3 was there. As for the games, I thought that they were noticeably different different from typical TvZ.
For 1 thing, life did not simply defend the hellion or hellion/banshee harass for the first 20 minutes and win with BL/infestor. He was contesting the map with lings, always looking for counter attacks (although he didn't get them too often vs. the solid mech play from MVP) and keeping the hellions off of his mineral lines for most of the games that he won. When MVP won, he was able to get decent drone kills early on.
The ling heavy style itself was another interesting thing. Life delays his roaches for quite some time every game (unlike most zergs that play against mech) and still manages to deflect the 2 fact attacks while allowing himself counterattack opportunities. His ling/infestor control was the best that I've seen in a long time.
Even when BL compositions were used, they weren't the same "turtle to 5 base make 20 BL's and go" games.Life always had supporting lings or roaches that were hitting another location. In fact, I would say Life was almost wasteful with his BL armies. Not wasteful in the sense of suiciding them, but in the sense that he didn't rely on them very heavily and could afford to lose them in many situations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Life ever remaxing on BL infestor.
There was rarely an idle moment in these games. It seemed like there was always something happening on screen that would have an impact on the outcome.
tl;dr: I loved these finals because Life's play looked inspiring, despite what most people think of the games ^.^ The story was good too!
The story was great, but the games lacked a bit I would say. Compare it to Blizzcon 2011 for example where we got a handful of one-sided games but also some real nailbiter.
All in all a satisfying finals, though, and a worthy conclusion of the season. In fact, the 2012 season 4 could really be one of the most memorable seasons ever.
This kid has great mechanics, he has the aggression, he will dominate in the years to come meaning Zerg will be nerfed (just like Terran for strong performances)
Mvp played very well. Most of the time when I see so many blue flame hellions I GG immediately. The fact that Life was able to come back from such deficits only makes him more incredible. Mvp just didn't put out the right unit compisitions to finish Life.
Yeah...for all the people complaining about infestor brood lord... How else is Life supposed to beat a late game mech comp with that many siege tanks? Roaches? Banelings? ...Hydras?
The balance whining in this thread is truly out of control. And how can you even mention balance when everyone has been saying that MVP was being sloppy? He got vikings too late, no ghosts, no ravens (you can wipe out BL/Inf with a few HSMs), tanks were caught unsieged countless times, not enough thors, and he didn't take scvs for repair.
But even if it seemed that MVP was playing perfectly and lost, that literally means nothing in terms of balance.
Personally I thought it was a great series and very exciting. MVP went hellions every game to deal with Life's zergling style and it was working, but he was outplayed later on in the game. Yes outplayed.
On October 23 2012 09:04 Sakray wrote: Nestea managed to just lolstomp a mech comp with pure banelings.
In 2011...
Completely different situation, too. The baneling style only works against the pure thor/hellion/scv push that comes super fast (before it's even realistically possible to get broods out).
What an awesome GSL finals this year. As much as I would like to see a protoss player in the finals, this was the most exciting non protoss finals ive seen in a long time. What i cant figure out is why MVP stayed on mech every single game.. did MVP ever comment on this? I was thinking maybe it was his way of avoiding using higher apm because of his wrist, or maybe he knew that life is really good at shutting down bio.
On October 20 2012 19:26 noddy wrote: Didn't like the finals that much and even though I wanted MVP to win, congrats to Life. Great accomplishment, balance aside.
Yeah, GJ life. I think terran has been really nerfed badly. at least turn back the snipe damage back
"at least" yeah such a small thing the old snipedmg. What is wrong with this community.
I dont think subtier players realize how retarded the old snipe made TvZ at high levels. A metagame where one unit counters all zerg T3 is a bad meta.
It was almost as bad as the old Neural made ZvP.
I don't think subtier players realize how short a time that snipe was 'OP' before Blizzard nerfed it.
It was less than two weeks. People are such drama queens.
It's funny how blizzard won't change the queen range buff because they "want the metagame to flesh out" but yet they nerf pretty much any terran strat that has success instantly (thorzains thor strat tvp, snipe tvz).
Fuck blizzard. And before you ask, yes, I mad.
Edit: OT Congrats too life, was kinda sad cuz I was rooting for Mvp the whole way, but Life deserved to win. Mvp made too many mistakes in the game he lost. (Especially game 7, wtf was that stupid move-out with 2 thors, 2 tanks and 4 hellions? Wtf?)
I don't think subtier players realize how short a time that snipe was 'OP' before Blizzard nerfed it.
It was less than two weeks. People are such drama queens.
Come on. Patch 1.4.3 arrived on 21st February. Snipe was OP as early as BlizzCon 2011 - I recall that Mvp sniped the whole NesTea's army, which was rather sweet example of how Ghosts with Snipe were OP. It was on 22nd October. Four months minus a day. And I don't think it was first showcase of OP Snipe.
On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
I dont understand why "nobody" understands why. It was probable, by that I mean more than 50%, that MVP would do a "cheese" on the last map considering he surprisingly never did it during the finals, perfect time for it. Life's respected MVP's mix play, and that could be the only reason as to why he opened that way.
Great finals, MVP is very important for the true legend killers to shine through!
To give a better point of view on the subject, we also have to rememeber that is how MVP did win against Squirtle, after what was the most incredible moment in SC2 history (Squirtle crushing an off-the-charts amount of resources in BCs). He is not afraid to do such things after blunders.
On October 25 2012 00:59 mantadoerr wrote: What an awesome GSL finals this year. As much as I would like to see a protoss player in the finals, this was the most exciting non protoss finals ive seen in a long time. What i cant figure out is why MVP stayed on mech every single game.. did MVP ever comment on this? I was thinking maybe it was his way of avoiding using higher apm because of his wrist, or maybe he knew that life is really good at shutting down bio.
Mech is probably just easier to deal with Life's mass ling style. Notice how in 7 games, Life basically did zero damage to Mvp and won the games where he got brood lords out in time, lost the ones where he took too much damage and couldn't.
On the other hand, Life made the slightly puzzling move of going for an early pool, with which he succeeded at forcing an annoying command center cancel on Mvp.
I dont understand why "nobody" understands why. It was probable, by that I mean more than 50%, that MVP would do a "cheese" on the last map considering he surprisingly never did it during the finals, perfect time for it. Life's respected MVP's mix play, and that could be the only reason as to why he opened that way.
Great finals, MVP is very important for the true legend killers to shine through!
It's not just this, but on Entombed Valley, TvZ is usually a CC first or 11/11 2 rax. 10 pool does fine against either one, so it's a pretty "safe" build as long as you don't commit too hard to the 10 pool.
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/S4_2012/lifemvpgf.jpg)
MVP <Cloud Kingdom> 
Life![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/GSL/S4_2012/lifetrophygaze.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/689Yz.png)
Patch 1.4.3
