Before the actual review, I'd like to mention I'm one of those people who thinks all this fussing around with spoilers is something that should go away as soon as possible. I'd like Starcraft II to become like any other sport, where results are out there quickly. That said, I suppose it doesn't hurt to have some minimal spoiler protection for minority that does care significantly (for now, anyway).
Jjakji started with reactor Hellions into cloaked Banshees, an opening that caught Sen slightly off guard. Though he fended off the Banshees after taking a little damage, he was not ready at all for the follow-up Marine-Tank-Banshee attack. The attack dealt a huge amount of damage, and Jjakji was able to end the game quickly.
After a regular Hellion fast expansion, Jjakji followed up with a very strong Marine-Marauder-Stim timing attack into Sen's newly hatched third base. This attack hit at a great time, before Sen had many Banelings or their speed upgrade. Jjakji showed great micro to focus fire down individual banelings, after which he laid waste to the remaining forces.
Sen tried to play the game out, but he couldn't recover from the early loss of his third base. When Jjkaji came with his next attack, Sen just didn't have enough to hold it off.
Ganzi opened the game up with a couple of cute tricks, including a proxy Barracks inside Boxer's natural (just out of sight range of a building CC) and fast cloaked Banshees. In the end though, he only did just enough damage to offset Boxer's fast expansion advantage, which saw both players go into the mid-game pretty even.
Boxer opted for bio while Ganzi opted for mech, and it seemed for a while that Ganzi was getting the better of emperor with good army positioning and movement. However, Boxer had a masterful ace up his sleeve. He secretly massed vikings in his main, hiding them while Ganzi only built a handful for himself. When the two met for a huge engagement, Boxer knocked Ganzi's Vikings out of the sky and dropped his infantry on top of the sieged Tanks to score a crushing victory. Ganzi was sent reeling, and Boxer secured the victory in a few more minutes.
This game was defined by a series of mistakes from the Emperor. He opened with three Reapers which lost their lives for nothing. He tried to expand on the back of the reapers without enough defenses, which forced him to take SCV losses defending against an early Marine counter-attack from Ganzi. And finally, he tried a two-Medivac drop which he forgot to pay attention to at the worst time possible, losing the entire cargo for nearly no gain. With that many accumulated disadvantages, Boxer just didn't have a chance to win.
Boxer opened with a proxy Barracks reaper, which was easily stuffed by Ganzi's good scouting. Boxer attempted to follow-up with cloaked Banshees, which were delayed compared to Ganzi's direct move to Starport. Because of this, Boxer did nearly no damage with his Banshee while Ganzi picked up more than a dozen kills. Ganzi decided to exploit the advantage in the short-run instead of riding it out, and clinched the series with a marine-tank attack.
We got to see a straight up macro-battle between the two players, with Ganzi going mech while Jjakji represented no-tank, straight-up bio. Throughout the game, Ganzi played slightly better, getting in nice blue flame hellion attacks while deflecting Jjakji's drop harassment without much trouble. In the end, it was an overambitious two-pronged drop + ground attack that doomed Jjakji, as Ganzi had the positioning and reaction speed to fend off both attacks without much trouble. After Jjakji expended so many units on that failed tactic, he just couldn't put up any resistance against the advancing mech wall.
Once more, the two players played a straight up macro battle (Ganzi did a few early Banshee tricks), but this time both players decided to go with mech builds. Jjakji seemed to take a mid game advantage after establishing control of the center with his first big push, but Ganzi showed his greater mastery of mech to come back and take the game. Despite being behind on army, he took small advantages just by being more active with his units and taking the initiative. He took a hidden expo at another main, used hellions to cut into Jjakji's SCV count, and employed clever baits to draw Jjakji's army into bad positions. The master stroke was a switch to Vikings and Banshees, after realizing he could not catch up in the Tank count any time soon. This move worked beautifully, forcing Jjakji all the way back to his main and forcing a GG.
This was an ugly game, where Boxer spent the first half of the match donating his army to Sen with constant over-aggression. After taking a commanding lead, Sen spent the second half of the game donating his army to Boxer, who had turtled up for the long haul. Boxer emerged victorious in the end, as a poorly microed late-game Terran army tends to defeat a poorly microed late-game Zerg army.
The two players split and took their respective sides of the map and headed straight into a late-game macro war. Once again, the late game management and micro on Sen's side just wasn't good enough to take on competent Korean Terran, and he came out on the losing end of the engagements. Eventually, he lost his bases and GG'd out.
Jjakji went for his own variation of Boxer's patented build by going for two Rax speed-reaper drop while Boxer went for a 1/1/1 variant. It looked like a pure build order win for Boxer, as he had enough troops to defend against Jjakji's reapers while Jjakji himself had almost no anti-air. The game developed into a base trade scenario, and as expected, Boxer's banshees won out in the end.
This time Jjakji went for Banshees followed by a Marine-Tank push, while Boxer went for a more typical FE into infantry build. The game looked over when Boxer fended off the Banshee harass very well, and had Stim and Shields before Jjakji even had his siege mode done. However, Jjakji somehow managed to pull off his one-base timing attack anyway, forcing the GG from the emperor.
There was a massive early game slugfest, as Jjkaji desperately tried to defend with his FE build against Boxer's proxy Starport + floated Barracks + reactor Hellions. The situation looked very grim for Jjakji at times, but through some great crisis management, he managed to survive. Boxer had expanded in the meanwhile, and had built up a significant SCV lead.
However, Jjakji struck back immediately with some very clever play. He located Boxer's proxy Starport and camped it with two Vikings while sending a Banshee to attack Boxer. Having followed up with mech, Boxer was forced to wait an agonizingly long time for Thors to stop the Banshee.
Afterwards, Jjakji used dropships well to pressure Boxer into staying near his main, allowing him to push forward with his Tanks and set up a containment position right outside Boxer's base. This stand-off lasted for a fair amount of time, until Jjakji got off a perfect scan just as Boxer unsieged all his tanks to try and inch forward. Jjakji instantly reacted by stimming all of his Marines and Marauders for a forward charge, and annihilated Boxer's unsieged tanks to secure the victory.
Notes and Comments
Jjakji as MKP the Second: My concerns about Jjkaji were partially confirmed in his Code S RO32 group, as he showed some decent but shaky TvT performances. A TvT Achilles heel is a terrible thing to have in what's still a Terran dominated tournament, and I think we can consider Jjakji quite lucky to have not encountered any top tier Terrans in his GSL November run (though he was rather lucky in general).
Obviously, he differs from MKP in that he actually won a championship, and he has a completely different play style, but they're looking like eerily similar players when you assess them as tournament threats: Awesome TvZ, very good TvP, and very hit-or-miss TvT that makes fans fear for their progress. It's still too early to come to a conclusion, but his TvT has not impressed so far.
Just another Foreigner: Granted, Jjakji is one of the best TvZ players in the world. Sen wasn't going to win that one. But losing to Boxer, in one of the ugliest TvZ series seen in the GSL? I guess we can say that Sen isn't a Code S class player yet. I know that the A beat B, B beat C, so A beats C logic isn't valid, but if you consider how well Sen has done against other foreigners... And then take into account a very disappointing and crushing foreigner defeat at HomeStoryCup...
Nope, not a very hopeful start to the year for professional gamers outside of Korea.
Hope for Boxer: Boxer did one thing very well during his stint with the Air Force team towards the end of his Brood War career, as his skills were waning and he knew he could not play his younger peers in straight-up games. He knew how to take games and lead them off the beaten track, creating messy, unfamiliar scenarios where it was anyone's game. Boxer did just the same in his Code S group, playing out a bunch of scrappy games where he came very close to securing a spot in next round.
For the large part, Starcraft II games don't tend to 'break down' into non-standard scenarios as often as Brood War games, but when it does happen, Boxer's large body of experience can give him an advantage. I don't think it's a long-term winning game-plan for Boxer, but I think it could get him into the RO16 in the future if he can get a few lucky breaks.
You're Leenock. You have just won the MLG National Championship in Providence and barely lost to Jjakji in one of the best series in Starcraft 2 history in the GSL finals. You have been given the opportunity to pick your first round opponent in the next GSL. Do you pick a newcomer without much stage experience like Brown or Parting? Maybe take on someone like Lucky who didn't look the strongest in his qualifying matches?
Nope. I want the former MSL champion, the player who has absolutely decimated everyone he has come across so far in the GSL. I want The Pretender. I want oGsFin.
With this decision, Leenock is banking on his top level ZvT to be good enough to take down the former Brood War A-teamer, having been able to take down the likes of MMA and MVP recently with his skill. It's going to be hard, but if any Zerg will have a chance against Fin, it'll be Leenock. With his relentless pressure and macro, he might be able to combat Fin's specific strategies and match his macro. Leenock is going to have to a difficult time in his group, having to take on Fin and then either one of the best mech oriented players in the world, Supernova, and the player who knocked him out of the Blizzard Cup, MC.
You can't forget that this group is essentially Leenock vs. oGs. The oGs players will be going into this group gunning for two spots and pushing Leenock out the door into Code A. With the title of God of Zerg still hanging in the air for 2012 with Nestea's stumbles recently, it's time for Leenock to show the past two months weren't a fluke and he's a force to stay for the oncoming year.
Call him ForGG, Fin, The Pretender, or whatever else nickname or ID you want to pin on him. All I know is that so far he has only done one thing: win. In Code A, he faced three top players at each race. Sage? No problem, I'll 2-0 him. Polt? Super Tournament champion? Who cares about that, I'll 2-0 him, too. July? Give me your golden mouse, buddy, because I am going to 2-0 your ass as well. With his much hyped up debut in GSL, Fin hasn't disappointed as he hasn't dropped a set yet and is looking towards the top of GSL right away, wanting to win the championship this season.
But it won't be that easy as he'll have to face three hard opponents in this group, two of them being his very own teammates. No offense to the three players he faced in Code A, but I would say his opponents in this group are a step up in competition. MC is a better player than Sage, who is very intellectual and has some good strategies, but can't compare to MC's overall game. Polt is a great Terran, but he and Supernova are two totally different beasts; Polt prefers bio while Supernova prefers mech, and as we all know, a high-level mech player usually beats a high-level bio player when playing at his absolute best. With July, the little Prince of War has passed him by, with the God of War looking like a broken down engine. Rumors of him practicing less are in the air, and his all-ins are becoming more frequent. Leenock will be the ultimate test for Fin in this group and if he can get past him with a 2-0 score, everyone else in Code S should prepare for the worst.
Hi, SuperNova. I'm sorry I predicted you to win GSL November and jinxed you into bombing out in the first round, throwing away a checkmate victory against Jjakji in one of the most mind numbing games of all-time. I'm happy you're back from the depths of hell and hope you enjoy your stay back in Code S. I promise I won't pick you ever again to win the GSL, so I hope you enjoy your late Christmas present.
Supernova is the underdog going into this group. Leenock was just in the GSL final and won MLG; MC is coming off a win at Homestory Cup and a strong performance in the Blizzard Cup; and Fin is ForGG, and we all know about his past and his dominating Code A performance. Supernova dropped to Code A and had to battle his way back to Code S, now being put in one of the most difficult groups of all-time and has to play his absolute best to get out.
I can't rave enough about how well Supernova plays mech, and if he wants to advance, he'll need to play it perfectly against the likes of Fin and Leenock. In his first match against MC, it'll be tough, but I don't think he'll be that big of an underdog as many think he will be. MC has been very good lately, but you can't compare someone like Sound, who MC destroyed in the Homestory Cup finals, to Supernova, a player who has made deep Code S runs and is top tier Korean Terran.
The Boss Toss is back, taking more foreign money last weekend with a win at HomeStory Cup, crushing Sound in the finals. With the momentum of that win behind him, he'll be hard to knock off in this group. If he isn't jet lagged or tired, that is. Homestory should be a pretty exhausting tournament. A regular tournament just has you playing, practicing, and then more playing. The focus is solely on the tournament and the money. Homestory is more about the players having fun and playing Starcraft on the side. Will MC be able to cope with the jet lag and after effects of partying it up in Europe for four straight days?
That's really what MC's play comes down to. Will we see the MC that played so well at Blizzard Cup and Homestory Cup, or will we see a jetlagged and tired MC that won't be able to handle the massive amount of games put in front of him in the new group set-up in GSL. I think if MC is playing at his absolute top play, he can get through to the Round of 16, but I don't know if the Homestory Cup trip can be put behind him so easily.
Predictions: Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock > MC
Leenock and Fin advance
Art by Fishuu
Writers: Fionn and Waxangel. Graphics and Art: Meko and Pony Tales (disciple and Lip the Pencilboy). Editor: WaxAngel
Nice writeup. I think that Fin and Supernova will advance just because they are deadly timing attackers and in another hand i'm cheering of ForGG to win the GSL so. Fin > Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock < MC Fin > Supernova Supernova > MC
Fin has shown horrifically poor tvz and tvt games primarily, and those matchups in code a were July and Polt looking pathetic and broken, it was like watching MC drop into code B for free. I can't see him beating anyone but MC in this group.
On January 10 2012 11:04 SandMan. wrote: Are you guys serious? For me, the clear favorite of this group is Leenock. He will dominate this group, no doubt.
Why? He got pretty badly stomped by MC in blizzcup.
Again, this group gives me the runs. Legit 4 of my favourite players. Two are my absolutely favourites. Leenock and MC are in my top 3. SuperNova i've been a fan of since his Code A run. And fOrGG? I'm buying into the hype. He's so manly.
Still haven't seen Fin play yet in non-ladder matches. If he isn't as superwtfgodly as everything seems to think, I'm thinking Leenock and MC advance fairly easily.
Great write-up. RE: the spoiler thing - I personally think SC2 is ahead of other sports in the way it deals with results.
Never before have replays of sports games been SO readily available for fans to consume. Other sports grew up when the internet was not around, and VoDs were not available. This sport did not. I can watch a replay of an SC2 match any time I like, so accidentally seeing a result really could ruin my enjoyment. Spoilers hardly detract from the article. If anything, the standard of using them means that I always feel confident to consume content from TL without worrying about ruining matches I would like to see.
On January 10 2012 11:15 Samp wrote: They wrote the group of death o_O? Group C has MVP and Nestea in the same group..id call that the real group of death..
If ForGG wins his group, then he will win GSL.
Quote me later for posterity. I'm jumping on the hype train and going full speed and I don't plan on bailing out just yet. ForGG will destroy everyone in his path and leave no mercy. He did it once before, and he definitely will do it again.
I think Leenock might drop out of Code S. Fin's true skill remains to be seen, but he is certainly good enough for his Code S spot. I think Fin would have the advantage due to his extra experience from more years as a progamer than Leenock. I think Supernova has a good chance against MC because of not only the possible jetlag, but also because MC would have had a harder time to practice in the crucial days before his match while at the HSC.
On January 10 2012 11:15 Samp wrote: They wrote the group of death o_O? Group C has MVP and Nestea in the same group..id call that the real group of death..
3.5/5 for Boxer vs Ganzi? Boxer doing his mass dropships all over Ganzi's tanks was straight out of BW. In fact that doesn't even happen in Brood War much anymore what with mass wraith being in vogue nowadays. I'd give that match 4.5 just for that one moment.
On January 10 2012 11:27 red4ce wrote: 3.5/5 for Boxer vs Ganzi? Boxer doing his mass dropships all over Ganzi's tanks was straight out of BW. In fact that doesn't even happen in Brood War much anymore what with mass wraith being in vogue nowadays. I'd give that match 4.5 just for that one moment.
Yeah, that game was at least a four ... especially since for the most of the game Artosis and Tasteless thought Boxer was completely hosed.
Fin is very good. More so that his micromanagement is fairly ridiculous and his sense of timing is brilliant. And Leenock is coming from wins against MMA? One 2-1 at Providence truly means nothing. MMA beat him recently in Blizzard cup and the last time they met in the GSL November.
He's good, but no where near scary nor is he the best zerg right now (DRG has him well beat). MC and Fin to advance. Fin is brilliant, and MC should roflstomp Leenock and MC is pretty good against Terran, especially Supernova who probably has weaker bio than the average Terran.
Leenock looked so strong but he wasn't really consistent lately in blizzcup or the ksl
The last games I saw from forgg were in ksl team leagues I believe and he lost all of them, but it was only like 2 games and it's not the same, he will have time to practice so he could have a strong showing
MC just came back from germany, he could just be tired as hell and couldn't prepare for his opponents those last days
Supernova is too unpredictable, he is good but only has one good gsl finish
I don't think ForGG is overrated he's been practicing for like 6 months maybe more?? 6-0 in Code A against good players. He's not overrated but saying he will win Code S is probably not gonna happen this season.
All: 189-112 (62.79%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W L W L L W W W L | View Games vT: 57-41 (58.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W W W L W L W | View Games vZ: 51-27 (65.38%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L L L W L L W W L | View Games vP: 81-44 (64.80%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L L L L L W | View Games
That's against foreign T's too. Is it really a surprise he came last with three Korean T's in his group?
On January 10 2012 13:37 babylon wrote: Sen's international TLPD:
All: 189-112 (62.79%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W L W L L W W W L | View Games vT: 57-41 (58.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W W W L W L W | View Games vZ: 51-27 (65.38%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L L L W L L W W L | View Games vP: 81-44 (64.80%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L L L L L W | View Games
That's against foreign T's too. Is it really a surprise he came last with three Korean T's in his group?
historically yah, but he did pretty well against thorzain, select, and brat_ok in his recent tournaments, and they're pretty damn good foreigners
Nice write up! I expect to see Fin and Supernova advance. MC is going to be tired from all the traveling and such from Homestory Cup so I would be surprised to see him win 1 set.
Wait after MC schooled Leenock in blizzcup and shutout top foreign zergs like nerchio and sepahno you pick him over MC? I don't think so. There are no protoss' or Polts or pumas or MVPs in his group so don't worry about MC.
I pray ForGG doesn't go through. Not only do I dislike his style of play, but oh the drama with the Elephant thread /again/ aswell as TL admins trolling around for a week. Not fun at all. It's for the best that he gets 3rd.
Agreed on Fin and Leenock. For those saying Fin is overrated/overhyped and won't advance... are you basing that off his stream? It's pretty obvious he's completely messing around on there...
Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
On January 10 2012 14:31 oxxo wrote: Agreed on Fin and Leenock. For those saying Fin is overrated/overhyped and won't advance... are you basing that off his stream? It's pretty obvious he's completely messing around on there...
So let's hope Fin won't be messing around today! I'm expecting him to have the most skill due to his former bw results and his recent results. Also his mechanics on the stream seemed great.
I really hope for a straight up macro game of Leenock and Fin without those stupid mass drone kills where the game is like instantly over and pretictable.
Overall I'm really hyped for this group, too bad I always have school during the live stream, so I'm gonna watch the VODs.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
I wouldnt say he is no good and he was hot/great that month but he's no DRG. He better not run into MC with his abysmal 44%vP WR.
On January 10 2012 11:15 Samp wrote: They wrote the group of death o_O? Group C has MVP and Nestea in the same group..id call that the real group of death..
Well a group of death usually has more than 2 monsters. And while a group including MVP and Nestea 6 months ago would almost certainly net Group of Death status, Nestea has played pretty horrible recently. And MVP has been knocked out of a couple of GSL's. Which is fine, he's still amazing, but he's gone back to being mortal if MMA and Leenock can take games off him. And then you have idra, who while in good form, is still a foreigner and has been absent from the GSL for a fair while, so there's a question mark hanging over him. And lastly Lucky.
On the other hand you have Leenock, who just played an amazing finals in November and is more and more looking like the best zerg around. You have ForGG, who will either win the GSL or go deep - talent wise he's looking amazing. You have MC, probably the best protoss or one of the best. And Supernova, one of the best terrans in the world.
So it seems clear to me that the latter is stronger than the former.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
Leenock has always been great. His games against jjakji alone prove that.
Very strict game scores. Not very consistent with past scores, however I would be pleased if this became the new standard. In the past it felt kind of like game scores, where 3 was normal, 4 was okay and 5/5 was great. I think it gives game scores more value and depth when only games like Set 7 MMA vs DRG in blizzard cup get 5 stars.
Also, could you possibly just make the stars the rating? Like just displaying 2 or 3 1/2 stars, instead of saying STAR 2/5? That might visually look better.
I don't think you should worry about spoilers if they are in the thread. If the spoiler is on the front page, i could understand people being upset, but otherwise, no.
On January 10 2012 11:15 Samp wrote: They wrote the group of death o_O? Group C has MVP and Nestea in the same group..id call that the real group of death..
This group has 3 tiptop tier players in it, and Supernova who seems always pretty underrated. I'd say Group C is MVP/Nestea ezpz (sorry idra).
On January 10 2012 13:37 babylon wrote: Sen's international TLPD:
All: 189-112 (62.79%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): L W L W L L W W W L | View Games vT: 57-41 (58.16%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W W W L W L W | View Games vZ: 51-27 (65.38%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L L L W L L W W L | View Games vP: 81-44 (64.80%) | Last 10 (old -> recent): W L W W L L L L L W | View Games
That's against foreign T's too. Is it really a surprise he came last with three Korean T's in his group?
historically yah, but he did pretty well against thorzain, select, and brat_ok in his recent tournaments, and they're pretty damn good foreigners
Well, Thorzain's TvZ is his weakest MU (and has been for a while) @ 57%, while SeleCT's TvZ is also ... not quite stellar @ 58% (SeleCT's TvP is definitely his best MU). Brat_OK's TvZ is pretty good though, I'll say, and it does break 60%. In any case, they're not pushovers, but I'd say you need at the very least a 60%+ win-rate in a MU in the international TLPD in order to be anywhere near competitive in the MU in Korea, and Sen's ZvT has always been really, really weak compared to his other two MUs. I mean, just look at his ZvT vs. ZvP and ZvZ; the difference is huge.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
You just 100% ignored the GSL. He made it to the finals in Code S, taking out the best Terran in the world along the way. Keep in mind that was a best of 5, and MVP was preparing strategies specifically for Leenock. So he was practicing for matches against him, and still didn't come out on top in what was an epic series. Leenock has close to the best ZvT in the world, a toss up really between him and DRG.
Nice write up, but I really don't think Fin has what it takes to beat Leenock. He's good, but this hype is just silly. Leenock and MC to advance.
Personally I would have given game 2 between Sen and BoxeR more than 1.5... to me (didn't watch Boxer vs Jjakji) it was one of the best games of the night (g1 BoxeR v GanZi was awesome), Sen struggling and as Tasteless said "barely not stabilising" and trying to come back after an early deficit. But hey, matter of opinion.
1) One look at this group reminds me why GSL Code S holds such a high prestige and esteem. It's becoming harder and harder to survive the group stages, let alone winning the Code S.
2) If I had to pick one weakness in ForGG, it's his TvZ match up especially when zergs are allowed to get 3rd and 4th base. I think Leenock has a great chance to beat ForGG if he can hold off the early aggression.
3) MC's in great form recently, but not sure what condition he will be in after his trip to Home Story Cup.
4) SuperNova is definitely going to be the underdog in this group regardless of who he's facing, and he actually plays a lot better when the pressure is not entirely on him. This group is so hard to pick as I see just about everyone having an equal chance of beating each other.
Great writeup but this is he first ti'm I've read the predictions and thought there's just no way that'll happen. MC and Leenock to advance I think. Fin is overhyped, tho maybe he's gotten better over christmas.
ForGG better bring more then that same timings in Code A, then again he's the master of timings so i am curieus to see what he brings
And to those who say Leenock is not good ... Did you even see his road to the finals ? This kid got some serieus TvZ and ZvZ given this TvP looks a bit shaky compared to the other matchups but i would still say he's going through.
Leenock/MC with the upset of ForGG with a sick timed build, dropping either of the 2.
Definitely the hardest group this GSL imo. Everyone of those 4 guys would advance in every other group (Yes even group C) and its very hard to predict the results of today. Supernova showed his huge potential in the past GSLs, Leenock owned Provence and got to the last GSL finals, Fin is just... Fin, nothing more to say, And MC just showed at the Homestorycup, that he is back.
Realistic view: Fin + Leenock But I'm rooting for MC and Leenock; please MC, it would be a perfect birthday present to see you advance in this group of death
If MC wasn't just returning from HSC4 he would have absolutely no problems with this group. But now, I am not so sure. Hope HSC4 will not ruin MCs run in Code S.
People do know Leenock didn't "choose" fin don't they?
Leenock was top 8 of GSL November so in tier 1 while fin had so little GSL points for the year he was in tier 4. (MC was in tier 2 based on his GSL 2011 points, Supoernova Tier 3)
Of the 8 players in each tier one was randomly picked by drawing names or whatever to go in to each group, the player from tier 1 would play the player from tier 4, Leenock just happened to get fin, he in no way "chose" to play him.
It's only the round of sixteen where group nominations occur.
On January 10 2012 17:24 mvtaylor wrote: People do know Leenock didn't "choose" fin don't they?
Leenock was top 8 of GSL November so in tier 1 while fin had so little GSL points for the year he was in tier 4. (MC was in tier 2 based on his GSL 2011 points, Supoernova Tier 3)
Of the 8 players in each tier one was randomly picked by drawing names or whatever to go in to each group, the player from tier 1 would play the player from tier 4, Leenock just happened to get fin, he in no way "chose" to play him.
It's only the round of sixteen where group nominations occur.
I'm hoping fOrGG will still be able to play in the final match with cloud kingdom as set 1. Seeing how Leenock is doing right now, fOrGG might take a 1-2 loss from him and take convincing wins from MC or Supernova.
All in all, I want him to play on friggin' CLOUD KINGDOM. Props to Superouman as well!
Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock < MC
Wow my predictions are like a reversal of yours
Forgg < Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock > Supernova Forgg > MC Forgg > Supernova
ForGG doesn't have better tvz than Jjakji, not by a mile. Unless for a really creative all in cheese i don't think Leenock will lose. ForGG over MC? You must be kidding. MC gives chills to MVP when they play and you think Forgg has a chance over a veteran like MC?
I like ForGG but don't think of him of a never before seen genius. He has first to fall to really rise.
On January 10 2012 17:24 mvtaylor wrote: People do know Leenock didn't "choose" fin don't they?
Leenock was top 8 of GSL November so in tier 1 while fin had so little GSL points for the year he was in tier 4. (MC was in tier 2 based on his GSL 2011 points, Supoernova Tier 3)
Of the 8 players in each tier one was randomly picked by drawing names or whatever to go in to each group, the player from tier 1 would play the player from tier 4, Leenock just happened to get fin, he in no way "chose" to play him.
It's only the round of sixteen where group nominations occur.
I'm glad to hear one of TL Writers agrees, this spoiler bullshit needs to end, cause all it serves are people that are too selfish, and want to protect their own satisfactions instead of for the greater good of e-Sports to grow. Yes all those rallying for this continuation of spoilers are selfish. All you want is to protect the excitement of games that you weren't able to watch Live, which is understandable, and sucks, but it's a selfish mindset. If you truly cared about Starcraft growing as an e-Sport you'd understand that for the greater good and growth (not that it's not growing already, but even greater), then the big news regarding SC2 results would be posted instantly, and in a celebratory fashion just like traditional sports through ESPN/Yahoo/CNN/etc. And don't give me that BS about e-sports is nothing like traditional sports. I'm not saying they are alike, but I want SC2 to be the biggest and baddest mother fucking SPORT in the world, e-Sport or not, and we need mad attention any way we can get it. This is for the greater good here, sacrifices must be made, and it's quite easy to sacrifice the selfishness of really a small percentage of the community that whine about not wanting things spoiled.
Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock < MC
Wow my predictions are like a reversal of yours
Forgg < Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock > Supernova Forgg > MC Forgg > Supernova
ForGG doesn't have better tvz than Jjakji, not by a mile. Unless for a really creative all in cheese i don't think Leenock will lose. ForGG over MC? You must be kidding. MC gives chills to MVP when they play and you think Forgg has a change to a veteran like MC?
I like ForGG but don't think of him of a never before seen genius. He has first to fall to really rise.
Well as I predict that Forgg loses to Leenock, I'm not sure what the first part of your post is referencing.
As for your bias love of MC, you talk like MC has just won his second GSL and Forgg is some scrub sacrifice. Forgg smashed Sage and Tassadar. It's not unreasonable to believe he could beat MC.
Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock < MC
Wow my predictions are like a reversal of yours
Forgg < Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock > Supernova Forgg > MC Forgg > Supernova
ForGG doesn't have better tvz than Jjakji, not by a mile. Unless for a really creative all in cheese i don't think Leenock will lose. ForGG over MC? You must be kidding. MC gives chills to MVP when they play and you think Forgg has a change to a veteran like MC?
I like ForGG but don't think of him of a never before seen genius. He has first to fall to really rise.
Well as I predict that Forgg loses to Leenock, I'm not sure what the first part of your post is referencing.
As for your bias love of MC, you talk like MC has just won his second GSL and Forgg is some scrub sacrifice. Forgg smashed Sage and Tassadar. It's not unreasonable to believe he could beat MC.
Sorry about Leenock, saw different.
So I need to be a biased fan of MC to tell a fact like that? You are a ForGG biased fan that thinks he can just come and win a GSL from the first try like he is joining a retarded tournament.
I'm really into the ForGG hype, I want him to kick ass, and I know he's 2-0'd everyone on his way to CodeS, but he lost everytime in the KSL tournaments, to people lesser than the ones he beat, so I'm not sure he can pull this off.
Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock < MC
Wow my predictions are like a reversal of yours
Forgg < Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock > Supernova Forgg > MC Forgg > Supernova
ForGG doesn't have better tvz than Jjakji, not by a mile. Unless for a really creative all in cheese i don't think Leenock will lose. ForGG over MC? You must be kidding. MC gives chills to MVP when they play and you think Forgg has a change to a veteran like MC?
I like ForGG but don't think of him of a never before seen genius. He has first to fall to really rise.
Well as I predict that Forgg loses to Leenock, I'm not sure what the first part of your post is referencing.
As for your bias love of MC, you talk like MC has just won his second GSL and Forgg is some scrub sacrifice. Forgg smashed Sage and Tassadar. It's not unreasonable to believe he could beat MC.
Again: Sage lost to an undefended proxy rax and to a timing attack after mass zealots vs marauders, not exactly the most proving matches in my book; he also is not at MC's level.
Fin > Leenock MC > Supernova Leenock > Supernova Fin > MC Leenock < MC
Wow my predictions are like a reversal of yours
Forgg < Leenock MC < Supernova Leenock > Supernova Forgg > MC Forgg > Supernova
ForGG doesn't have better tvz than Jjakji, not by a mile. Unless for a really creative all in cheese i don't think Leenock will lose. ForGG over MC? You must be kidding. MC gives chills to MVP when they play and you think Forgg has a change to a veteran like MC?
I like ForGG but don't think of him of a never before seen genius. He has first to fall to really rise.
Well as I predict that Forgg loses to Leenock, I'm not sure what the first part of your post is referencing.
As for your bias love of MC, you talk like MC has just won his second GSL and Forgg is some scrub sacrifice. Forgg smashed Sage and Tassadar. It's not unreasonable to believe he could beat MC.
Sorry about Leenock, saw different.
So I need to be a biased fan of MC to tell a fact like that? You are a ForGG biased fan that thinks he can just come and win a GSL from the first try like he is joining a retarded tournament.
Yeah the difference is, when I quoted the guy above me, I didn't act incredulous about his choices like he was an idiot.
Very hard group to predict. Leenock vs forgg? Forgg still has to prove himself, his run in code A was great but until we can see more of his pay in the GSL, its too early to tell. Personally from what I saw, there were a few games in that run where the losers lost the game, rather than forgg winning them. Leenock is good, there is no doubt about it. Zergs usually have a hard time against terran, and i would comfortably put money on Forgg to win if it were almost any other zerg, but against leenock, no way. He always puts up an incredible fight against terrans.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say MC and forGG advance. I just think that MC is going to hurt Leenock, and win against superNova. Leenock will beat forGG and froGG will beat superNova... just my thoughts though
Am I the only person getting terrible lag on gomtv tonight and is it just me or is the stream quality really lacking? (900kb/s and 400kb/s streams not free one)
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
On January 10 2012 14:32 Utaheka wrote: Really sorry to be the one to point it out, since nobody has realized it yet: Leenock is not good. Yeah, he won an MLG, but when everybody was practicing for MLG, they didn't expect Leenock to be any good, so they didn't try to practice any specific strategies against him. Now that people have realized he isn't that bad, they will start practicing against him, and he will fall faster than we saw him.
I just had to quote you. You were saying?
i wonder if hes watching gsl atm lol, say again?
Something tells me he's most likely not.
i recall some random zerg player that doesnt know what hes talking about leenock the best zerg in the world... i think his name was nestea or something...
As for leenock's... whatever it was, what if he had placed a creep tumor outside detection range of the cannon? It would have delayed the nexus for... a very long time
Also, nice predictions. I just want to say xD. Never bet on a GSL runner up :p
I expected leenock to roll over everything (though I shouldnt, nobody does well after a GSL win). Supernova would obviously lose here, and MC/forGG would fight for the second spot.
Lol so SuperNova and MC make it through... pretty much the opposite of what I was hoping. But maybe SuperNova will finally make a splash and live up to his previous hype.
On January 10 2012 11:17 sol1 wrote: Great write-up. RE: the spoiler thing - I personally think SC2 is ahead of other sports in the way it deals with results.
Never before have replays of sports games been SO readily available for fans to consume. Other sports grew up when the internet was not around, and VoDs were not available. This sport did not. I can watch a replay of an SC2 match any time I like, so accidentally seeing a result really could ruin my enjoyment. Spoilers hardly detract from the article. If anything, the standard of using them means that I always feel confident to consume content from TL without worrying about ruining matches I would like to see.
I absolutely agree with this statement about the spoilers. If you ever hear someone who missed the game talking, and warning his friends not to tell him anything (even the results) "I have it Tivoed I don't want you to spoil it damnit", you know that its important to people to feel the suspense of the games, this is even more true in SCII i feel.
forGG played really good IMO but he got some of the toughest opponents possible, a 2 time gsl champ (whom finally seems to be on a roll again), the current silver medalist of gsl, and a dude that hasnt been knocked out of code s since it pretty much existed. Cheer up folk. Even MVP got knocked around a few times in GSL before actually winning one.
On January 11 2012 01:54 iky43210 wrote: As it seems people need to stop hyping FIN as the king already, he still has a way to go before dethroning mvp
He will never Dethrone MVP. FIN is good MVP is inn my opnion the person that will become a bonjwa, if he isn't already.
That works fine when news sites are not ALSO access sites. If you don't want to be spoiled in sports, you tape the game/look up a replay option in TV guide. Then you avoid news sites, and watch the (non-spoiled) game.
The problem with spoilers on Team Liquid is that TL is the place you come to find VODs. Unless you want to drive VOD-watchers away from Team Liquid a no-spoil policy is simply a practical necessity. Make TL more of a instant news site = make it a no-go location for anyone planning to watch a VOD in the future.
Fact of the matter is, more people watch non-live events in e-sports than they do for 'real' sports, so a 'real' sports spoiler policy is a fool's comparison.
I was watching game 1 of Fin v MC and i thought "wow seriously screw terran man" went to get a drink, came back and almost fell off my chair because it said MC vs leenock o.O
I question how anyone can call any group the group of death yet. SC2 doesn't have the equivalent of Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu yet. No one has shown the consistency from beta until now to be deemed the best Z/T/P player yet. Now we're hyping ForGG, seriously people calm down. Give the game another year before throwing around group of death. If MVP, Nestea, or MC can win this GSL then they can prove that they have the consistency factor.
On January 11 2012 03:45 NEOtheONE wrote: I question how anyone can call any group the group of death yet. SC2 doesn't have the equivalent of Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu yet. No one has shown the consistency from beta until now to be deemed the best Z/T/P player yet. Now we're hyping ForGG, seriously people calm down. Give the game another year before throwing around group of death. If MVP, Nestea, or MC can win this GSL then they can prove that they have the consistency factor.
How can you say MVP isn't consistent?
.......
Flash loses.
Jaedong, and all of Team 8 are struggling to even find a sponsor.
Bisu loses.
MVP is THE best Terran player, there is no ifs ands or buts about it. MVP and Nestea in the same group is always going to be Group of Death until they stop winning so much.
On January 11 2012 03:45 NEOtheONE wrote: I question how anyone can call any group the group of death yet. SC2 doesn't have the equivalent of Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu yet. No one has shown the consistency from beta until now to be deemed the best Z/T/P player yet. Now we're hyping ForGG, seriously people calm down. Give the game another year before throwing around group of death. If MVP, Nestea, or MC can win this GSL then they can prove that they have the consistency factor.
How can you say MVP isn't consistent?
.......
Flash loses.
Jaedong, and all of Team 8 are struggling to even find a sponsor.
Bisu loses.
MVP is THE best Terran player, there is no ifs ands or buts about it. MVP and Nestea in the same group is always going to be Group of Death until they stop winning so much.
Clearly you aren't listening. I said those three are the best candidates for the tops of their races. Nestea has been in a slump and has something to prove. MC just came off a slump. MVP could very well lose to IdrA again. If MVP gets out of the group, and goes deep into GSL yet again, then he cements himself as the most consistent player in SC2.
On January 11 2012 03:45 NEOtheONE wrote: I question how anyone can call any group the group of death yet. SC2 doesn't have the equivalent of Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu yet. No one has shown the consistency from beta until now to be deemed the best Z/T/P player yet. Now we're hyping ForGG, seriously people calm down. Give the game another year before throwing around group of death. If MVP, Nestea, or MC can win this GSL then they can prove that they have the consistency factor.
How can you say MVP isn't consistent?
.......
Flash loses.
Jaedong, and all of Team 8 are struggling to even find a sponsor.
Bisu loses.
MVP is THE best Terran player, there is no ifs ands or buts about it. MVP and Nestea in the same group is always going to be Group of Death until they stop winning so much.
Clearly you aren't listening. I said those three are the best candidates for the tops of their races. Nestea has been in a slump and has something to prove. MC just came off a slump. MVP could very well lose to IdrA again. If MVP gets out of the group, and goes deep into GSL yet again, then he cements himself as the most consistent player in SC2.
When did MVP lose to IdrA?
Nestea is in a slump but he's still the main candidate for best Zerg, Leenock is rising though.
Why does MVP have to go deep into this GSL again to cement himself as the most consistent? Look at what he's won for Pete's sake.
Clearly you're a BW elitist, we don't need anymore of that please. I don't even know what making comparisons to BW players has anything to do with the term "Group of Death", lol. It's not like people are tossing bonjwa around, Group of Death isn't BW specific.
On January 11 2012 01:15 B.I.G. wrote: forGG played really good IMO but he got some of the toughest opponents possible, a 2 time gsl champ (whom finally seems to be on a roll again), the current silver medalist of gsl, and a dude that hasnt been knocked out of code s since it pretty much existed. Cheer up folk. Even MVP got knocked around a few times in GSL before actually winning one.
well this cheered me up, fOrGG will be great some day, just not this month.
The sen argument doesn't make sense. He beat Zenio @ NASL, nearly beat MC there as well, judging him by 2 ugly games isn't really fair. Sen just played horribly. That was honestly just painful to watch. I can guarantee that any other day of the week he would have won those 2 games (obviously I REALLY doubt he would beat Jjaki on any other day, but those games...) with ease.
EPT
Ns_HS.Jjakji, 
GammaniaSen, ![[image loading]](/blogs/images/blackstar.gif)
oGsMC
![[image loading]](http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvs3gwE00v1r543i2o1_500.jpg)
