Nine months ago Tyler (then Nony) defeated Mondragon to take the TSL2 and $10,000 in the largest online Starcraft: Brood War tournament ever. Since then, we've seen Starcraft 2 released and our community explode in membership and visitors. We feel that now is the perfect time to run TL's first large-scale Starcraft 2 tournament: the TeamLiquid Starleague 3.
We feel that the TSL is a nice bridge between two games we both love. New SC2 fans might recognize some of the top TSL2 players: Tyler, Idra, Morrow, Strelok, White-Ra, Ret, Sen, Fenix, Haypro, Tarson, TT1, Incontrol. The list goes on. You might also recognize a few of the commentators who weren't quite as famous back then: Artosis and Day9.
If you've never experienced a TSL, we hope you tune in over the next few months. We're adding a bunch of new wrinkles to our tournament. The prize pool is the largest we've ever had, and we're expanding the bracket to 32 players. For the first time ever, we're inviting selected top players from Korea to compete. We hope these changes will add a new level of competition and entertainment for our fans to enjoy.
Qualifiers and Invites
The TSL would not be the TSL if there weren't some sort of open qualification process. There are sixteen combined Europe and North American qualifier slots into the main 32 player draw. These will be filled through eight TeamSpeak TL SC2 Opens over the next two months. Eight winners will automatically qualify, and then the next eight players in order of rank points determined by consistent high finishes in these tournaments. Details can be found in the FAQ stickies of the TSL3 forum located here
We're going to be seeding three players into the draw: TSL2 champion TLAF-Liquid`Tyler, TSL2 runner up Mondragon, and TSL2 third place FnaticMSI.Sen. Additionally, we'll be inviting 13 top players from Korea and Asia to fill the rest of the slots. These players will be announced at a later date.
TSL3 Round of 32 - March 2011
The TSL3 begins Round of 32 broadcasts in March 2011 and will run through April 2011. The TSL3 will be broadcast through replay casting to solve time zone, lag, and scheduling issues between all the servers. The Grand Final will be broadcast live from the TL HQ in New York City. Both finalists will be flown to New York and stay at the HQ and play one best-of-seven for $15,000.
About Our Sponsor - PokerStrategy.com
PokerStrategy.com is a poker school and community. It's a place where you can learn poker from the very basics to advanced levels. They have an active forums in 18 different languages, and offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level.
**Please note: following offer is only available to non-US citizens and residents.
If you'd like to support PokerStrategy.com and TeamLiquid, you can get a free $50** to the poker room of your choice by registering and passing their poker quiz. If you do, please make sure to use this referral link so TL gets credit for the sign up. We will also need to track users from TL that pass the quiz for our raffle later on. Limit one per person.
A few words from our sponsor:
An interesting year has passed since we sponsored the last TeamLiquid StarLeague. StarCraft 2 was released, hundreds of thousands of new StarCraft fans emerged and TeamLiquid.net went through a phase of incredible growth and development. That’s why we are proud to be back and support the new tournament.
We see TeamLiquid and StarCraft as what we want to be for poker: the world’s best place to learn the game and talk about it. StarCraft is a beautiful game of strategy – and large events such as the TeamLiquid StarLeague help it being recognized beyond the core fan base.
Enjoy the games!
TSL3: What's next?
We'll have lots of exciting TSL3 news over the next few weeks. We'll be announcing the TSL3 commentators and the 13 Korean / Asian invited players as well. We will also be announcing the details about how to enter our TSL3 raffle -- we'll be sending two lucky people to South Korea for GSL Finals and a tour of the oGs-Liquid house.
TSL3 Qualifiers begin in one week, on January 8th, 2011 with the TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #8 / TSL3 Qualifier #1.
You can qualify for one of the 16 spots by doing the following: 1. Winning a qualifier tournament. 2. Placing in the Top 8 of non-winners (ranking points).
Ties are broken with a playoff.
Who can qualify for the 16 EU / NA spots?
Players who do not reside in countries assigned to the Taiwan / Korea Battle.net servers can compete in the TSL3 Qualifiers. Players residing in SEA countries can compete.
Jan 08 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #8 / TSL3 Qualifier #1 -
EU Server Jan 15 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #9 / TSL3 Qualifier #2 - NA Server Jan 22 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #10 / TSL3 Qualifier #3 - NA Server Jan 29 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #11 / TSL3 Qualifier #4 -
EU Server Feb 05 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #12 / TSL3 Qualifier #5 -
EU Server Feb 12 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #13 / TSL3 Qualifier #6 - NA Server Feb 19 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #14 / TSL3 Qualifier #7 -
EU Server Feb 26 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #15 / TSL3 Qualifier #8 - NA Server
**You can enter all of them provided you don't live in a Korea/Taiwan server country.
If I win a tournament can I play in the others?
No, you cannot. You cannot secretly play under another name -- this will result in disqualification from the TSL and future TL events.
What about banned or previously disqualified users?
Banned users (for any reason) cannot enter these tournaments. Do not try to circumvent by creating smurf accounts. We will find you, and you will be disqualified from the TSL and future TL events. Additionally, previously disqualified abusers from TSL2 still serving out their punishments cannot play as well.
Can I enter all eight qualifiers?
Yes. Anyone who can enter one qualifier can enter all eight. You do not have to play all eight, but your chances increase as you play more.
Do the TeamSpeak TL SC2 Opens / TSL Qualifiers still have $200 prizes?
Yes. The TSL qualification and ranking points are additional prizes. The TeamSpeak TL SC2 Opens are stand alone events. If you qualify for TSL and do not wish to participate, you can decline and we will give the spot to the player with the next highest number of points.
What is the Map Pool for the TSL Qualifier tournaments?
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station. Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
What about hackers / cheaters / abusers?
Any sort of cheating may result in disqualification from the TSL and from future TL events. We take cheating very seriously, and we will hand out harsh punishments.
These details will be released closer to the first broadcast date in March.
Live final in New York? Can I come to it!?
Sorry, but currently there are no plans to have a venue where fans can watch the final live. We may have a fan meet with the players before the final but no live audience. Maybe for TSL4!
Why are you guys doing invites for Korea / Asia?
We looked at the logistics of running TL Opens for Korea / Asia and decided that it was too complicated. Language barriers, time zones, and publicity are all huge challenges and we felt that for TSL3 we would not be able to run an open qualifier that was up to our standards. Maybe we can for TSL4, but definitely not now.
Why don't you allow everyone including Chinese/Koreans to join the TL Opens on US/EU?
We would have preferred doing something for everyone, but we have to be realistic. We are not ready and capable to deal with a hundred progamers playing our US-EU Open tournaments on borrowed accounts without us having a clue who is who. Such a tournament would be a logistical nightmare, with many players not able to communicate with their opponents or admins. Instead, we have chosen for a system that we know we can deliver on, and we will work to improve on it as we gain more experience. Everyone wants Chinese and Koreans to participate, including us. But right now, we're not ready.
From our standpoint it is a choice between an invite system for Korea / Asia or no players from there at all, so we chose invites.
What about the TSL2 abusers? Are they allowed to play in TSL3?
No, they are not allowed to play in TSL3, but they will be allowed for TSL4. If they attempt to smurf for TSL3 or play illegally, they will be given an even harsher punishment. You can read the thread about the TSL2 abusers here.
Who are the 13 mystery Korean / Asian invites?
We will announce the invited players at a later date.
Who are these three seeds?
Tyler won the TSL2, taking home $10,000 and defeating players like Tarson, Idra, and Mondragon. He placed high in several MLG events in 2010 and currently plays for TLAF-Liquid.
Mondragon finished second in the TSL2, defeating players like Brat_OK, Fenix, and Sen. He was considered one of the best players outside Korea for Starcraft: Brood War. Mondragon is not "officially active" in Starcraft 2 but has played 500 games (3100 rated). He will be active and practicing for TSL3 -- he didn't accept his seed to just lose in the first round.
Sen finished third in the TSL2 and is currently one of the top international Zergs. He qualified for GSL3, where he advanced to the Round of 32 before losing in a close series with GSL2 Champion IM.NesTea. Sen currently plays for FnaticMSI.
Who drew that portrait of Tyler?
Glider, TL member since 2003, draws a lot of portraits. He's going to be doing a sketch of every single TSL qualifier. We'll be sending the originals out to the players -- yet another incentive to qualify! If you want to watch the Tyler portrait teaser again, here it is: + Show Spoiler [Video] +
How do I help support TL and PokerStrategy.com?
You can play in the qualifiers, tune into the broadcasts, and tell your friends about the TSL. If you live outside the US, you can register at Pokerstrategy.com, take their quiz, and get a free $50. By doing this you'll also enter our raffle to win a trip to Korea for GSL Finals and a tour of the oGs-Liquid house. Make sure to use this Referral Link so we can track you properly.
Hoping for Tastosis and Chill+Day9 casting archons. Also hoping the ladder maps don't change during the tournament. :O Also not expecting a foreigner to win anymore.
Wow words cannot express the joy and hype I feel for this tournament, TSL always such a great and well run tournament. This is going to be beyond awesome!:D
wowowowowowowwowowow this is so amazing i just tab into tl to celebrate the new year and this happens wow i'm so happy right now words can't describe. THANK YOU TEAM LIQUID!!!
When one of the mods behind this has a chance, can you please explain the map elimination decisions? I'm curious about why Jungle Basin and Delta Quad are removed, for example.
So the map pool is awesome too no steppes all good well rounded maps thank you god and I CAN'T WAIT! Jesus the excitement I have is unbelievable. I knew the countdown would have something big I was thinking TSL or something else glad it was TSL.
OMG I saw the counter and was only thinking it would be the New Years. This is just... wow... beyond my wildest expectation. I didn't expect TSL3 to start until next year. So looking forward to this, and major love for pokerstrategy.com I'm in love with those guys.
Just as a clarification, the TLAF-Liquid in Korea and IdrA can't play the qualifiers, right? So they can only join through an invite? (That they would obviously get if I'm right)
YES ASIA INVITES AND SEN AND OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGREMINDS ME OF TSL1 DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN DOWN
On January 01 2011 14:23 lazyfeet wrote: is that mean nony mondragon and sen already gonna walk away with at least 150 dollars?
so?
gsl s-class players have a guaranteed 1.2k $ a month for just being s-class.
in the end it wont matter anyway as these 3 wont care at all about 150 bucks when 100 times more money is up for grabs. if they lose in the first round, they wont go home with the 150 $ and say "hey, great, i won money despite failing my games".
holy fucking epic intro im so happy this is going down( i really think there should e some Bw in this tourny maybe a losers bracket in bw or even some show matches even if there is no money for it im just the pros would do it for the fans(plus the first hybrid sc2/bw tourny would be cool)
Was just checking the linked thread about cheaters and noticed Dimaga on there. I am wondering if this Dimaga is the same as the SC2 Dimaga? And thusly would he not be able to play in this TSL?
On January 01 2011 14:30 Traveler wrote: Was just checking the linked thread about cheaters and noticed Dimaga on there. I am wondering if this Dimaga is the same as the SC2 Dimaga? And thusly would he not be able to play in this TSL?
Yes that is the same Dimaga. He will not be able to compete in TSL3. It is also the same Sarens and same Pomi.
On January 01 2011 14:28 DOMINOSC wrote: holy fucking epic intro im so happy this is going down( i really think there should e some Bw in this tourny maybe a losers bracket in bw or even some show matches even if there is no money for it im just the pros would do it for the fans(plus the first hybrid sc2/bw tourny would be cool)
losers bracket with bw would be a horrible idea when korean ex-bw-pros participate. despite not having practiced bw for several months since they switched, guys like mvp or nada would BRUTALLY VIOLATE and fucking ROFLSTOMP any1 who hasnt lived in a bw team house. in broodwar, the ai gives you more resistance than guys like sjow or kiwikaki would give to mvp or nada.... no offense to sjow or kiwi intended...
This is gonna be bigger than people expect, the prize pool is compared to BlizzCon's. We are guaranteed to see high quality players and high quality play.
On January 01 2011 14:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, so can people go to the TSL3 Final? I live just outside NYC.
Unfortunately, given the setup at the TLHQ, this won't be possible. Time permitting we may be able to hold a fan meet for the players, but we'll have to see about that when we know who are finalists might be and what their schedules allow. We'll keep you informed.
Holy smokes. It crossed my mind when I saw the timer, I knew it was something other than just a new year thing, but a 35k prize pool TSL?! This is fantastic; it's been a craptacular night and this just turned everything around
The Grand Final will be broadcast live from the TL HQ in New York City. Both finalists will be flown to New York and stay at the HQ and play one best-of-seven for $15,000.
wow this is unreal. so is the Raffle prize.Trip to South Korea. Unbelievable.
I assume day9 and chill / wheat will be casting live from there as well. That is sick
Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. I had a feeling that something special was going to come when I visited TL today. This is bad-asssss. TL, you're the bomb (Glider, you're the bomb too!).
Holy smokes. It crossed my mind when I saw the timer, I knew it was something other than just a new year thing, but a 35k prize pool TSL?! This is fantastic; it's been a craptacular night and this just turned everything around
YES! Thank you TL, this year couldn't have ended better
If you need any help at all doing ANYTHING. Like, I mean, if you need someone to pick up all the popcorn after people are done watching I'm there. AWESOME
On January 01 2011 14:59 Kenny wrote: YES! Thank you TL, this year couldn't have ended better
If you need any help at all doing ANYTHING. Like, I mean, if you need someone to pick up all the popcorn after people are done watching I'm there. AWESOME
I think you mean started! The year just started with TL making nerds happy.
On January 01 2011 14:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, so can people go to the TSL3 Final? I live just outside NYC.
Unfortunately, given the setup at the TLHQ, this won't be possible. Time permitting we may be able to hold a fan meet for the players, but we'll have to see about that when we know who are finalists might be and what their schedules allow. We'll keep you informed.
thats unfortunate to hear. If you guys ended up renting out a place to hold the finals i'm sure your turn out would be MASSIVE.
WOW!!! I just arrived from the new year's party and decided to check TL before going to bed, just to see if the counter was just for New Year or something else... That's awesome! Great way for Teamliquid to start a new year!
That beginning portrait of tyler brought back memories of TSL2 when he beat idra. Seriously I watched every single one of those games, and ive never been more into a tournament then tsl2!
Being TSL 3 saddens me, since no difference between Sc2 and BW TSL's means no future BW ones. Anyways, though not a fan of WoL, I'm glad to see those innitiative from this site, which equals guaranteed quality .
On January 01 2011 15:24 Golondrin wrote: Being TSL 3 saddens me, since no difference between Sc2 and BW TSL's means no future BW ones. Anyways, though not a fan of WoL, I'm glad to see those innitiative from this site, which equals guaranteed quality .
Unless I'm missing something I don't think there's any specific reason to believe that there couldn't be other TSLs for broodwar... all we can say is that TSL3 will be for SC2.
On January 01 2011 15:33 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote: How did Dimaga get put on the ban list?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=108352 all the answers are in there. But to be crystal clear, everyone on that list was win trading on the TSL2 Ladder to boost themselves up the rankings. If not for those games players like LZgamer probably would have qualified rather than risk and lose his points right at the end of the ladder.
oh man this is amazing, i won the last 2 north american teamspeak tourneys, so i am a bit disappointed that i did not qualify already ; T_T but i will try my best to win another one! GL to everyone :D this will be sooooo epic <3 TSL
On January 01 2011 15:33 ch0c0b0fr34k wrote: How did Dimaga get put on the ban list?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=108352 all the answers are in there. But to be crystal clear, everyone on that list was win trading on the TSL2 Ladder to boost themselves up the rankings. If not for those games players like LZgamer probably would have qualified rather than risk and lose his points right at the end of the ladder.
Thanks. It is a sad sight to see a great player be banned from competing, but what's done is done. Best of luck to Dimaga in TSL4.
That pop-up scared the shit out of me... I thought I was being hacked or had some virus lol.
This tourny looks amazing. Weird seeing mondragon as a seed tho considering we haven't seen him do anything in a long time (unless he was using some other name I don't know about) tho I know why he was seeded obviously.
I am seriously nerding out in excitement for this. Wow I love this so goddamn hard it hurts. I bet iNcontroL is casting. Holy shit this is awesome. I fucking love the intro video. CAN'T WAIT!!!!
No steppes, DQ or JB is awesome imo. I'm glad they are taking the initiative and removing the worst of the worst. A smaller pool is better if the maps are more balanced (LT is still meh but better than steppes).
Is anybody else getting this weird bug where whenever they go to the teamliquid.net main page for the first time they see some huge youtube video of some random guy being drawn and some music plays while this is happening? Was the site hacked? Is my credit card number compromised?
On January 01 2011 15:36 drewbie.root wrote: oh man this is amazing, i won the last 2 north american teamspeak tourneys, so i am a bit disappointed that i did not qualify already ; T_T but i will try my best to win another one! GL to everyone :D this will be sooooo epic <3 TSL
Oh little drewbie the next TL opens are gonna have more pro's then the last TL opens I would imagine
On January 01 2011 15:42 jaiBing wrote: i wonder what maps they will use??
From the second post: What is the Map Pool for the TSL Qualifier tournaments?
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station.
Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
edit: beaten, guess I shouldn't wait so long and reply to something in what's sure to be a huge thread, after clicking "all" to read everyone's reactions (:
Wow when they said big things were coming in 2011 i didn't expect something this huge! As usual TL is there to raise the bar! and the prize pool as well - just incredible.. this is going to be so damn amazing!!
On January 01 2011 15:36 drewbie.root wrote: oh man this is amazing, i won the last 2 north american teamspeak tourneys, so i am a bit disappointed that i did not qualify already ; T_T but i will try my best to win another one! GL to everyone :D this will be sooooo epic <3 TSL
Wouldn't be fair, most top players didn't play at the TL Opens.
I knew i was right! Awesome! TSL 3! BUT...how will you keep the results from being leaked considering any person that has some of the qualified players in their friend list can check their played game list and see the results.
Woohoo, this really sounds like FUN. Just asking here, but are there any chances for future qualifiers/invites for other servers? SEA, RU, LA (particularly LA, if you ask me XD)? Maybe for TSL4?
I know TL.net is a US/EU based community, but we the players from "secondary servers" face a huge dilemma: to play in our regional servers and lose the opportunity to participate in all of these amazing tournaments; or to play in the US server, don't help your regional community grow, and say goodbye to any chances of Blizzard ever taking our region seriously again.
On January 01 2011 16:07 theuser wrote: I knew i was right! Awesome! TSL 3! BUT...how will you keep the results from being leaked considering any person that has some of the qualified players in their friend list can check their played game list and see the results.
Will TSL 3 use new accounts for players?
Rest assured that the results of the matches will be kept a secret.
This made me run around my room squeeling with joy :D This just made my terrible night at work seem so meaningless! And what could be possibly better to start the new year off with! ^-^ Amazing intro video too by the way!
Maybe because it's two in the morning, maybe it was the champagne.. but I started to daydream about Nada and Julyzerg in the TSL... and then realized I had a gigantic nosebleed.
I mean, there's blood everywhere. Like the scene of some pagan solstice ritual. Well done, TL.
TSL hype is one of the few things that can send shivers down my spine. Now I'm not too sure how sc2 will fit into it but it's a great tournament. Hearing Artosis in that video above brings back so many memories. Bw was a beautiful thing, let's hope sc2 will come close one day.
On January 01 2011 16:50 iamho wrote: Aren't there like a billion sc2 tournaments every day already :s
lol? Are you serious? This ones already bigger then every other tournament (excluding GSL). 15k for first place yeah guess there are alot of tournaments like this every day...
Happy New Years TL!!!!! This looks like it'll be awesome! Can't wait to see the finals for this, and maybe I'll play in one of the opens (and get knocked out round 1 :p)
Nony Hwaiting!!!!!!!!!!!!! Super excited for a another TSL. The past 2 have been great events that I enjoyed watching. If my PC is working for the qualifiers I will try to play. GL everyone! Great job TL as always.
Holy shit. I read a lot of speculation earlier today and read through a lot of the old TSL threads. I was pretty excited about the idea, but I didn't really think it would happen! Then I clicked on a thread I had open when I got back in for the night, and fucking Tyler's face materializes! TSL!!! This site is seriously the best thing I've encountered related to gaming that wasn't a game.
BOOOOOOOM! TL fails to disappoint once again. Love you and keep going. Organisations tend to turn shit with growth but I am optimistic about TL's future.
Awesome. I have a feeling that this tournament will be done amazingly and will bring tons of new sponsors for future TSLs and other SC2 tournies. The TL talent is top class.
But I can't help and not chuckle at the map pool, tells a lot about the current state of the maps
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station. Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
Teamliquid is getting better and better every day I still remember TSL 1 and 2 as the best tournaments I've ever seen. But the wait is going to be a killer ^^.
I'm not sure who cast's the TSL Qualifiers/ TL opens, but I am interested in live streaming any games...check TheRushNetwork.com out for me and our casting crew.
HOLY SHIT. I just got home from a friend's new years eve party and I told myself to get some sleep, but instead hop on TL. It was a great decision to do so since the teaser video is fucking epic. 2011 is gonna be an awesome year for the growth of SC2.
Wow, Awesome. My heart skipped a beat when I came back into my room and there was this super cute Tyler sketch on the screen :3. Also the level of professionalism and how well the plans are thought trough is commendable. Love you guys, can't wait! And good luck to everyone participating in the qualifiers. Fighting!
What is the Map Pool for the TSL Qualifier tournaments?
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station. Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
And one empty spot that can be filled by dozen of players (I hope there's a spot reserved for Boxer, but there's a lot of players out there who deserve an invite, LeenockfOu, oGs Zenio, Tester...)
Yay. Was expecting some kind of announcement as TL does everything in KST so a countdown for new year would also have been in kst (and probably prefaced with a "New year in: "). However never dared hope for tsl3.
On January 01 2011 20:27 alonndo wrote: no dimaga i guess in this tournamnent
The rules about cheaters/abusers is in the FAQ on the very first page. Dimaga even posted:
On January 01 2011 18:57 NgS.DIMAGA wrote: WAITING TSL 4 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOOD LUCK TO EVERYBODY Thx for greate event i will follow it
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station. Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
The Qualifiers will be so intense, especially considering that 4 of the Saturdays collide with offline Tournaments where quite a few top european players will attend (PokerIdol.com in London, Takes Homestory Cup in Krefeld(Germany), IEM Europe in Kiev and Assembly Lan in Helsinki). So I guess we will see quite a few suprises in the qualifiers, People who are a bit behind the very top players but who will be able to play all 8 Tournaments. Might lead to have lots more US qualificants than EU in the end.
At least on 3 of the 4 dates its the tournaments being played on US server which collide (I guess thats no coincidence)
i think its very silly to have shakuras in the map pool when its not on the ladder anymore. if u gonna add shakuras u might aswell add other custom made maps that are at least as good as these blizzard maps
TL Thank you so much for this. This is the perfect way to start the year. This is going to be epic in every way possible. I cannot believe how hyped I am!!!
On January 01 2011 21:04 ParasitJonte wrote: My only concern is the map pool. I think you should have been more brave and added some of the best custom maps available...
On January 01 2011 22:04 Agh wrote: I Assume the opens are still alternating between US and EU? (Doesn't specifically say, but then again I could be blind).
Just curious as to how those are going to work.
Close to alternating.:
On January 01 2011 14:00 TL.net Bot wrote: What is the qualifier schedule?
Jan 08 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #8 / TSL3 Qualifier #1 -
EU Server Jan 15 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #9 / TSL3 Qualifier #2 - NA Server Jan 22 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #10 / TSL3 Qualifier #3 - NA Server Jan 29 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #11 / TSL3 Qualifier #4 -
EU Server Feb 05 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #12 / TSL3 Qualifier #5 -
EU Server Feb 12 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #13 / TSL3 Qualifier #6 - NA Server Feb 19 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #14 / TSL3 Qualifier #7 -
EU Server Feb 26 - TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #15 / TSL3 Qualifier #8 - NA Server
**You can enter all of them provided you don't live in a Korea/Taiwan server country.
Sweeet ! This is so effin awesome ! GO EUROPE ! Whoever may be fighting i hope this will be amazingly entertaining as Dreamhack was with Namaa and Mana :D
untill I read about the korean/chinese invitations. Seriously, TSL was THE event for every non-korean, now just look what happed at Kaspersky, just to easy to predict that the Koreans will take it all, like most tournaments they participate in. Their are just not enough foreign players (btw I hate that term...) that can keep up with the korean training and mechanical skill and the longer SC2 is out, the bigger will be the difference.
Anyway, the I'm hoping for some upsets from the non-koreans, some awesome casting at cet prime time and a lot of great starcraft action =)
Boom, this is what we all have been waiting for! This is going to gilden this spring! Im very positive towards the koreans players being invited, it's time to show the world that EU/US can play on the same field as Korea!
yea wooo so epic bla bla bla, can i just ask TL why koreans again? i mean seriously can we have normal foreigner tournament w/o koreans ? we will have koreans stomping foreigners again, and posibly no foreigners in finals/semis/quarters in faken foreigner tournament ;/
On January 01 2011 14:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, so can people go to the TSL3 Final? I live just outside NYC.
Unfortunately, given the setup at the TLHQ, this won't be possible. Time permitting we may be able to hold a fan meet for the players, but we'll have to see about that when we know who are finalists might be and what their schedules allow. We'll keep you informed.
I figured one of you might say this. I'm actually interested to find out how many people would actually drive down for something like this. Does anyone know how many people showed up for SC at MLG and Comic Con? Perhaps we could do a poll to find out how many people would attend.
I wouldn't be surprised if a few thousand would show up and perhaps we could do a pre-ticket sale or something. :/
On January 01 2011 15:31 Manifesto7 wrote: I feel the people wishing for a BW TSL, but at this point, who would be there to play in it?
I wouldn't be surprised if half the foreigners went back to playing BW for a little bit in preparation for it. Besides that, we wouldn't need several months to prepare the brackets because we could do the ICCUP ladder again. Not to mention; I think it would help bridge the gap between the two communities we have here at TL.
Will these qualifier be the same 512 ppl tournaments you have been running the last few times? I mean bo1 seems like a bad idea whit so much money on the line.
Also will there be alot more reserved spots for pro players since alot will try to sign up now for sure?
The breakdown is on the first page. The only reserved spots are for the seeded players and the Asian invitees.
Every other player has to qualify through the 512 open tournaments and the guys who get the most points during the qualifiers will qualify as well. As long as you have several top finishes, you will make it.
haha, whenever TL doesn't load smoothly within 5 secs there's a good chance a TSL is coming up. I guess this shows how amazingly this website is run more than anything.
On January 01 2011 23:54 Looky wrote: i think someone should start a petition to lift the ban off dimaga its been over a year... >_< lets forgive right?
I don't post much, but I've been visiting this site religiously since 2005. This community is amazing. Things like this truly make this website a special place.
On January 01 2011 23:54 Looky wrote: i think someone should start a petition to lift the ban off dimaga its been over a year... >_< lets forgive right?
edit: plus its a new game.
nope
The ban specifically stated next TSL whenever it may be, how can TL hope to discourage cheating if we don't stick to clearly outlined punishments for it?
I doesn't really like this invite thing at all. TSL players were suppossed to play qualification tournaments/ladder and those 13 will be invited just because they're from Asia or such it doesn't make sense compared withe the previous TSL's. Anyway its just my opinion. Hope, the best players will qualify!
Wow I didn't expect another TSL THIS early into SC2.. wow. And the prize pool - holy shit.
Pokerstrategy <3
A live final will be so epic aswell, no audience but being able to see the players live aswell as the commentators will just add to that professional feeling.
First thought "wtf?" at the video when i got online.
Then i read TSL3 and thought "wee?"
Then i thought "weeeeeeee"
What is the Map Pool for the TSL Qualifier tournaments?
Shakuras Plateau, Metalopolis, Xel'Naga Caverns, Lost Temple, and Scrap Station. Please note that Blistering Sands, Desert Oasis, Jungle Basin, Delta Quadrant, Steppes of War, and Kulas Ravine are removed from the qualification map pool.
So who are all the notable players who are banned from playing in this tournament? The TSL cheaters like Dimaga are pretty clear, but didn't Naniwa's TL account get banned a while back? So that means that he couldn't play, either? Who else?
I knew there was something big whena random video started playing. Damn, coupled with continued GSL and new and improved MLG 2011 is shaping up to be fucking awesome.
On January 01 2011 14:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Wait, so can people go to the TSL3 Final? I live just outside NYC.
Unfortunately, given the setup at the TLHQ, this won't be possible. Time permitting we may be able to hold a fan meet for the players, but we'll have to see about that when we know who are finalists might be and what their schedules allow. We'll keep you informed.
I figured one of you might say this. I'm actually interested to find out how many people would actually drive down for something like this. Does anyone know how many people showed up for SC at MLG and Comic Con? Perhaps we could do a poll to find out how many people would attend.
I wouldn't be surprised if a few thousand would show up and perhaps we could do a pre-ticket sale or something. :/
No doubt it'd be pretty huge, hence why we don't think we could do a TL-quality job of it. To make something happen we'd need a dedicated staff just to make the venue happen (also need to set the stage with booths etc). It's something we'd love to do, but it's not something we can realistically accomplish. However you can probably organise an independent TL meetup in NYC and we can take the finalists there after the match or something!
On January 01 2011 23:28 TaKemE wrote: Will these qualifier be the same 512 ppl tournaments you have been running the last few times? I mean bo1 seems like a bad idea whit so much money on the line.
Also will there be alot more reserved spots for pro players since alot will try to sign up now for sure?
Details about the TLopens and any changes to the format will be announced on Monday (EST)
On January 02 2011 00:16 arew wrote: I doesn't really like this invite thing at all. TSL players were suppossed to play qualification tournaments/ladder and those 13 will be invited just because they're from Asia or such it doesn't make sense compared withe the previous TSL's. Anyway its just my opinion. Hope, the best players will qualify!
If we thought we could run 8 successful TLopens in Asia we would. Unfortunately we're not in a position to do so. So that gave us two choices - include Asia or exclude Asia. We believe that excluding Asia is a step in the wrong direction as TSL strives to be the best tournament in the world, so we went with invites. In future seasons we hope we can correct this.
On January 01 2011 20:59 MorroW wrote: gg gl tl never dissapoints!
i think its very silly to have shakuras in the map pool when its not on the ladder anymore. if u gonna add shakuras u might aswell add other custom made maps that are at least as good as these blizzard maps
Look at it this way Morrow. Either Blizzard fixes the map and reintroduces the map and we don't have an issue, or that this is the first step towards using non-Ladder maps in tournaments.
On January 01 2011 20:37 TBO wrote: The Qualifiers will be so intense, especially considering that 4 of the Saturdays collide with offline Tournaments where quite a few top european players will attend (PokerIdol.com in London, Takes Homestory Cup in Krefeld(Germany), IEM Europe in Kiev and Assembly Lan in Helsinki). So I guess we will see quite a few suprises in the qualifiers, People who are a bit behind the very top players but who will be able to play all 8 Tournaments. Might lead to have lots more US qualificants than EU in the end.
At least on 3 of the 4 dates its the tournaments being played on US server which collide (I guess thats no coincidence)
We have done our best to accommodate the Europeans, but it is a busy few months.
hmmmz. Koreans eh? That will be interesting. 3 months to practice for the foreigners I assume idra/jinro/fd/zergbong/mc will take 5 of those invite slots. Maybe ret as well? Can't wait^^
I haven't heard anything about it so I'm asking: "Why is Dimaga banned from this tournament?" I mean the whole reason. Damn shame he can't compete in TSL, he's obviously really good.
On January 02 2011 01:25 raidmaster wrote: I haven't heard anything about it so I'm asking: "Why is Dimaga banned from this tournament?" I mean the whole reason. Damn shame he can't compete in TSL, he's obviously really good.
Just ended up here after having that teaser video forced on me when I tried to view the forums.
Bravo guys, I love what you've done to hype the tourney :D
The teaser was simultaneously beautiful and hilarious. Nony, a handsome man for sure, looking as intimidating as one can. His play would intimidate the hell out of me, but in the back of my mind there's the phrase "just chillin'".
On January 02 2011 01:25 raidmaster wrote: I haven't heard anything about it so I'm asking: "Why is Dimaga banned from this tournament?" I mean the whole reason. Damn shame he can't compete in TSL, he's obviously really good.
Its great, but personaly i preffered previous qualification format. With league and a lot of matches. It seemed a little better to me. Still with no iccup or anything like that tournamnt style qualifications seem much better.
On January 02 2011 01:39 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Why can't TL.net make qualifications for korea server? I mean US and EU has more accounts generally than korean server so less spots seems fair.
On January 02 2011 01:39 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Why can't TL.net make qualifications for korea server? I mean US and EU has more accounts generally than korean server so less spots seems fair.
We don't have the manpower to admin an open even on the asian servers primarily due to language barriers. We're not prepared to outsource such an important part of our tournament.
Big ups to TL for putting this together, it seems like players always get super creative for TSL tournements (anyone remember that pvz dt build nony used last TSL). Do it to it again nony!
Also, I'm glad the picture of Nony is good this time around. IIRC last TSL Nony's drawing made him look ridiculous hahah. I wanna find a picture of it because it was so off.
On January 02 2011 01:39 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Why can't TL.net make qualifications for korea server? I mean US and EU has more accounts generally than korean server so less spots seems fair.
We don't have the manpower to admin an open even on the asian servers primarily due to language barriers. We're not prepared to outsource such an important part of our tournament.
Well I was assuming when writing my suggestion that TL.net has connections to Korean scene and some korean language speakers to handle this. Of course TL could inform other tournament holders like playXP that winner gets spot to TL season 3.
Not related to suggestion anymore but I guess this way TL can invite all TL.net players instead of seeing them not qualifying through qualifiers. (If TL players who play in Korea are not allowed to play EU or US accounts)
Is the map pool set in stone? If (by some miracle) Blizzard adds good, new maps to the ladder, or allows some sort of professional map scene, in the interim would those be up for inclusion in the TSL3 map pool?
True, arew but following their logic.. it's quite understandable as to why they would have to go down that route.
I really hope its players like sen, Loner, etc. and not just foreigners in Korea who get the nod. Then again, TSL qualifications have always been through a Ladder but unfortunately that cannot be the case this time.
This process will be just as grueling though and some players might have to participate in almost every Open to qualify.
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
To be fair "Korea" covers Taiwan/Korea/China and possibly also foreigners playing in GSL. If the latter then it's definitely a great international pool, if not the latter then it will be great as long as there's a few Chinese players as well. We'll have to wait and see the player pool.
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
You don't support your argument with any reasons. Why isn't (close to) half and half fair? Are you afraid of playing against the best of Korea? You have to face them sometime if you want to be the best. The TSL is about the best playing against the best for the most entertaining games. Frankly, this could be the most exciting SC2 tournament yet in terms of the amount of top talent from around the world.
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
You don't support your argument with any reasons. Why isn't (close to) half and half fair? Are you afraid of playing against the best of Korea? You have to face them sometime if you want to be the best. The TSL is about the best playing against the best for the most entertaining games. Frankly, this could be the most exciting SC2 tournament yet in terms of the amount of top talent from around the world.
umm because their getting their spots handed to them and we have to earn ours?
Wowowow that was so epic. I am looking extremely forward to this, I started watching SC : BW a lot a few months before TSL2 and it was epic. I expect no less from this one.
One thing I am wondering is that are the Teamspeak TL Opens they are talking about the ones that have been already running?
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
You don't support your argument with any reasons. Why isn't (close to) half and half fair? Are you afraid of playing against the best of Korea? You have to face them sometime if you want to be the best. The TSL is about the best playing against the best for the most entertaining games. Frankly, this could be the most exciting SC2 tournament yet in terms of the amount of top talent from around the world.
umm because their getting their spots handed to them and we have to earn ours?
what does that have anything to do with their being "too many" ? wouldn't you agree that there are more better players in korea?
On January 01 2011 23:28 TaKemE wrote: Will these qualifier be the same 512 ppl tournaments you have been running the last few times? I mean bo1 seems like a bad idea whit so much money on the line.
Also will there be alot more reserved spots for pro players since alot will try to sign up now for sure?
-The point system where top 8 non-winner with the most point fixes this issue. If someone does well enough consitantly throughout the TL opens then that person deserves it.
-Reserve spots? There shouldn't be anymore reserve spots besides the korean invites and the seeded players. We need a tournament where the best players in the world are participiating and the opens will determine that. So I dont see any reason to have anymore reserve spots.
I wouldn't classify Jinro, HuK and IdrA as Asian players, but I'm sure they're included unfortunately.
I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I really think players who can qualify should have to go through the process like everyone else considering they all have EU, NA accounts as well and speak English.
On January 02 2011 03:20 StarStruck wrote: I wouldn't classify Jinro, HuK and IdrA as Asian players, but I'm sure they're included unfortunately.
I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I really think players who can qualify should have to go through the process like everyone else considering they all have EU, NA accounts as well and speak English.
:/
why should they have to qualify while korean players don't? that'd be racist
the invite process has to deal with logistics (playing from korea) and skill (more better players there).
if they made the entire tournament so that you had to qualify through TL opens but that koreans could play(and somehow do it without lag) then it's likely that every single qualifier would be won by someone from korea. that wouldn't be very fun now would it?
On January 02 2011 03:20 StarStruck wrote: I wouldn't classify Jinro, HuK and IdrA as Asian players, but I'm sure they're included unfortunately.
I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I really think players who can qualify should have to go through the process like everyone else considering they all have EU, NA accounts as well and speak English.
:/
I'd like to hear some clarification on that myself. It seems like a huge number of spots being given away to Koreans if the 13 doesn't include TLAF, Idra etc.
But on the flip side it's kind of unfair that they don't have to navigate these tournaments with bo1 rounds full of alliners etc.
I am having a hard time deciding how I personally would want it handled. I mean ideally it's qualifiers for every region, or something ladder related with the reset coming
On January 02 2011 03:20 StarStruck wrote: I wouldn't classify Jinro, HuK and IdrA as Asian players, but I'm sure they're included unfortunately.
I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I really think players who can qualify should have to go through the process like everyone else considering they all have EU, NA accounts as well and speak English.
:/
It seems unfair that those players would have to deal with server lag issues to try and qualify when they are all clearly top level players. I can see the argument but I cannot see a way around it when those 3 players have huge fanbases, are extremely skilled, and do not have the means to play without (at points crippling) lag.
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
Just get back to the form you had for mlg and you can win this np
Those 13 also include the NA/EU players in korea like idra, huk and jinro but I also think some korean qualifers for them would have been better then just invites.
And I agree it pretty retarded that the Koreans get their spots like that. Its not even funny how racist that is, imagine giving Brazil and Argentina a spot in the Football World Cup, while no other South American nations can compete, and while the rest of the world has to earn their spot. Logistics or not, its retarded.
On January 02 2011 03:30 Gomas wrote: I agree this is gonna be epic.
And I agree it pretty retarded that the Koreans get their spots like that. Its not even funny how racist that is, imagine giving Brazil and Argentina a spot in the Football World Cup, while no other South American nations can compete, and while the rest of the world has to earn their spot. Logistics or not, its retarded.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE
there are white people, white guys! living in korea who will get spots. it has to do with the fact that way over 50% of the top sc2 players are in korea and there's no reasonable way for TL to run qualifiers there! why shouldn't they get an at least somewhat proportional amount of spots in the tournament??
On January 01 2011 23:28 TaKemE wrote: Will these qualifier be the same 512 ppl tournaments you have been running the last few times? I mean bo1 seems like a bad idea whit so much money on the line.
Also will there be alot more reserved spots for pro players since alot will try to sign up now for sure?
-The point system where top 8 non-winner with the most point fixes this issue. If someone does well enough consitantly throughout the TL opens then that person deserves it.
-Reserve spots? There shouldn't be anymore reserve spots besides the korean invites and the seeded players. We need a tournament where the best players in the world are participiating and the opens will determine that. So I dont see any reason to have anymore reserve spots.
About the reserve spots, I think he is talking about for the Teamspeak TL Opens and not TSL3. In which case, if I'm not mistaken, pros are given priority registration, so that shouldn't be an issue.
On January 02 2011 03:30 Gomas wrote: I agree this is gonna be epic.
And I agree it pretty retarded that the Koreans get their spots like that. Its not even funny how racist that is, imagine giving Brazil and Argentina a spot in the Football World Cup, while no other South American nations can compete, and while the rest of the world has to earn their spot. Logistics or not, its retarded.
Racist? Really? Maybe you should read the FAQ or some of Plexa's explanations instead of spewing nonsense
On January 02 2011 03:20 StarStruck wrote: I wouldn't classify Jinro, HuK and IdrA as Asian players, but I'm sure they're included unfortunately.
I was hoping that wouldn't be the case. I really think players who can qualify should have to go through the process like everyone else considering they all have EU, NA accounts as well and speak English.
:/
It seems unfair that those players would have to deal with server lag issues to try and qualify when they are all clearly top level players. I can see the argument but I cannot see a way around it when those 3 players have huge fanbases, are extremely skilled, and do not have the means to play without (at points crippling) lag.
I guess it depends on who gets the invites.
Do TLAF players other than Ret/Jinro get invites? Can that be justified if you are using the level of skill as the a deciding factor to use this system, surely there's better Koreans. If there were actual Korean qualifiers do any non Kor beside Jinro/Ret/Idra have a reasonable chance?
It sounds like it's set up out of convenience more than it is in the spirit of fairness or having an ultra competitive tournament. It's still gonna be awesome so I can't complain too loud, and i do understand how hard it would be to be running tournaments all around the world.
This will be epic ! The only "problem" I see is if players like MVP, Foxer or MC are there they will roll over everyone. (this is not a real problem, just less suspense) Well, there's a few months of preparation, perhaps they won't be as dominant anymore then.
On January 02 2011 03:30 Gomas wrote: I agree this is gonna be epic.
And I agree it pretty retarded that the Koreans get their spots like that. Its not even funny how racist that is, imagine giving Brazil and Argentina a spot in the Football World Cup, while no other South American nations can compete, and while the rest of the world has to earn their spot. Logistics or not, its retarded.
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE
there are white people, white guys! living in korea who will get spots. it has to do with the fact that way over 50% of the top sc2 players are in korea and there's no reasonable way for TL to run qualifiers there! why shouldn't they get an at least somewhat proportional amount of spots in the tournament??
I couldn't find a better word for it but racist. You know what I mean, nationalist in a different way than nationalist is normally used.
All the reasons you gave are subjective. Over 50% of top sc2 players are Korean. Where did u get that figure from? What's a top sc2 player? As far as i know, they might be better they might be worse. It doesn't matter. Certain players could get invitations because they are good, but not because they're Korean, and that's what's happening here. Korean's participated in some foreigner events, and they weren't dominating (eg. dreamhack). But even if your point is true, even if they are gods among men, and the whole nation deserves an 'invitation', based on the whole nations quality, but an individual players' then still I don't get it. This would not happen in any other sport.
I'm digging myself deeper into this but just trying to convey my thoughts. I understand u can't do it, but its still worth criticizing imo.
On January 02 2011 02:22 TT1 wrote: the amount of koreans who are getting invites is way too high tho, 3-4 woulda been nice but 13 is so much
You don't support your argument with any reasons. Why isn't (close to) half and half fair? Are you afraid of playing against the best of Korea? You have to face them sometime if you want to be the best. The TSL is about the best playing against the best for the most entertaining games. Frankly, this could be the most exciting SC2 tournament yet in terms of the amount of top talent from around the world.
umm because their getting their spots handed to them and we have to earn ours?
what does that have anything to do with their being "too many" ? wouldn't you agree that there are more better players in korea?
ok.. its tls tourney/money so ill just leave it be, congrats to all the gosus in korea who are getting free spots
So I was just chilling on my computer reading e-mails and what-not. Then I was like, what should i do now? Then I decided to visit teamliquid as I normally do daily - and saw this. Happy New Year indeed. This is incredible. Sincerely, you guys rock!
Re-watching the old TSL intros, I'm so excited to see the new one for this season, and the if the finals could have a kickarse custom intro just like some of the OSLs? I wouldn't know what do do with myself.
On January 02 2011 03:01 0neder wrote: Asia players I'm hoping for: + Show Spoiler +
Sen SlayerSBoxeR Nada Tester JulyZerg Kyrix MC Jinro HuK Idra FruitDealer MarineKing HongUn
Sen SlayerSBoxeR Nada Tester JulyZerg Kyrix Ret MC Jinro HuK Idra FruitDealer MarineKing HongUn SangHo + Rainbow or Loner to complete the 13 (since Sen doesn't count)
Last night I had a bad dream that BitByBitPrime somehow cheesed his way to an invite D:
YES!!!!! last tsl was one of the best tournyes ever! made me a huge tyler fan, all i can say is TYLER HWAITING!!!!! this will be awesome. also some day9-chill casting would be epic.
On January 02 2011 04:32 TaKemE wrote: Well this does seems like it set up just go get ppl from their team into the tournament, seeding players from a starcraft1 tournaments and makeing it so that huk, jinro and maybe ret have to get invited or you would miss those known to be the best from US/EU of their race. I personal think it would have been alot more fair if the EU/US players in korea had to play the qualifers even thought they can have a bit lag.
Also if TL realy cant run a korean qualifer, you could just use the ladder system since im sure top korean players would ladder alot more if that was a way to qualify and they had 2-3 month to get to the top.
However its your tournament and you can do what you want and I will for sure be watching.
For the Koreans... it's an invite. They're not going to invite some random people, but good people. Plus, what makes the EU/US players in Korea different from actual Koreans? And finally, Nony and Sen are already accomplished sc2 players, and they probably would make in anyway, I don't know about Mondragon, but seeding past winners of the same tournament is definitely justified
This is Epic but with 13 Koreans, whom i assume will be all GSL competitors, I dont see how how our foreigners have a chance.I mean look at the kaspersky Invite only 3 Koreans there and they all went to semis..... and the finals was oGsMC vs oGsTop lol. still tho im looking forward to it, next time not so many Koreans ><
Also this is going to make the Teamspeak tournaments 100 times better because top players will play in a lot of them to try and qualify if they dont win, omg im so excited
it's hilarious to me that ppl are still complaining about 13 invites from korea.
if they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
and then there are people on the opposite spectrum that seem to think there should be some sort of anti-korea bias. this is supposed to be a global tournament, why would it have some ridiculous anti-korean bias. this is supposed to be a tournament for the best sc2 players.
If they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
No, travis. There is a misunderstanding. We're talking about Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean players here. Not the pro's of other nationalities living in Korea. It's a thin line.
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad and I would still expect players like IdrA and ret to compete. These guys should have no problems qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the players I just mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their given country in the Asian continent (not just residing there) - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
Since i am a pretty newbie to TL, i haven't heard of TSL. But serial, i already love this community so much now and seeing so much spam for just this tournament is making me soooo superexcited!!!
Very good news for the community it sure will be an great tournament I hope we can see some fighting from Mondragon and I hope we will see many more TLS's in the near future. I am hoping for 2 a year.
If they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
No, travis. There is a misunderstanding. We're talking about Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean players here. Not the pro's of other nationalities living in Korea. It's a thin line.
why? thats totally unfair
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad. Players like IdrA and ret for instance, should have no problem qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the three players I mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based. jesus christ this isn't the olympics where nationality matters this is an e-sport where you log on the freakin internet and play the game
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their country - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
dude, what does it matter if they are citizens of the country not wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING
what does it matter if they speak english obviously most asians will not have secondary accounts to play on EU with
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i can't believe ur actually suggesting that tl should somehow find out whether or not each individual KR server player is able to log onto EU and play in qualifers and then only invite OTHER players. how do you not see how incredibly unfeasable/stupid that is
or are you actually just saying that ONLY the white guys in korea should have to log onto EU at weird times to spend hours upon hours trying to qualify with only half the qualifiers as opportunities despite there being numerous koreans(some of them in the house with them) that could easily be doing the same thing?
edit: i went through and edited out all my caps. u successfully frustrated the hell out of me
If they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
No, travis. There is a misunderstanding. We're talking about Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean players here. Not the pro's of other nationalities living in Korea. It's a thin line.
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad. Players like IdrA and ret for instance, should have no problem qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the three players I mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based. jesus christ this isn't the olympics where nationality matters this is an e-sport where you log on the freakin internet and play the game
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their country - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
dude, what does it matter if they are citizens of the country not wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING
what does it matter if they speak english obviously most asians will not have secondary accounts to play on EU with
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i can't believe ur actually suggesting that tl should somehow find out whether or not each individual KR server player is able to log onto EU and play in qualifers and then only invite OTHER players. how do you not see how incredibly unfeasable/stupid that is
or are you actually just saying that ONLY the white guys in korea should have to log onto EU at weird times to spend hours upon hours trying to qualify with only half the qualifiers as opportunities despite there being numerous koreans(some of them in the house with them) that could easily be doing the same thing?
edit: i went through and edited out all my caps. u successfully frustrated the hell out of me
"""""wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based""""
So are you saying the EU/NA players (Jinro, ret, huk, idra and haypro) in korea will not have a higher chance of being one of those 13 invited then other top koreans.
If they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
No, travis. There is a misunderstanding. We're talking about Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean players here. Not the pro's of other nationalities living in Korea. It's a thin line.
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad. Players like IdrA and ret for instance, should have no problem qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the three players I mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based. jesus christ this isn't the olympics where nationality matters this is an e-sport where you log on the freakin internet and play the game
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their country - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
dude, what does it matter if they are citizens of the country not wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING
what does it matter if they speak english obviously most asians will not have secondary accounts to play on EU with
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i can't believe ur actually suggesting that tl should somehow find out whether or not each individual KR server player is able to log onto EU and play in qualifers and then only invite OTHER players. how do you not see how incredibly unfeasable/stupid that is
or are you actually just saying that ONLY the white guys in korea should have to log onto EU at weird times to spend hours upon hours trying to qualify with only half the qualifiers as opportunities despite there being numerous koreans(some of them in the house with them) that could easily be doing the same thing?
edit: i went through and edited out all my caps. u successfully frustrated the hell out of me
"""""wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based""""
So are you saying the EU/NA players (Jinro, ret, huk, idra and haypro) in korea will not have a higher chance of being one of those 13 invited then other top koreans.
I have no clue who is going to be invited, but I think odds are at least a couple of them will be liquid players, and i am sure idra will be invited because he is one of the most consistent top players and has performed well in other TSLs. Jinro clearly deserves to be invited, and I suspect ret would be invited as he made code A and also has a history of good performances in TSLs.
Now guess what, if haypro, or huk, or idra or one of the other liquid players isn't invited then THEY HAVE NO WAY TO QUALIFY. so it's not like there is no downside for them. which sucks because im sure all of them aree good enough to qualify.
Just came out of the shower and had more time to think about it, but you know what? Let's just drop that issue and be happy that more foreigners will be competing.
There's another issue that deserves more attention. We know Tyler, Mondi and sen are seeded. We also know you guys have a point system in place for the guys who didn't win an Open. How do you guys plan to seed/slot the other players and invitees? You guys talk about the round of 32, so I guess there won't be a group stage and you'll bracket the players right away. I have no clue how you guys plan on seeding 4-32. Will there be some sort of draft or are you guys going to auto-generate the brackets? I cannot imagine let's say Tyler having to play against someone like FruitDealer in the Ro32 because that wouldn't be very fair for the number 1 seed. Can you guys explain it any further, or do we have to wait? The point system only works for the bottom of the barrel. I can see some pretty wicked match-ups arising from the players who won the EU/NA Opens and the invitees.
On January 02 2011 06:09 StarStruck wrote: You guys talk about the round of 32, so I guess there won't be a group stage and you'll bracket the players right away. I have no clue how you guys plan on seeding 4-32.
now that's a good question
i wonder if it will be random. it seems like it probably will be
Inviting Asians is far better than letting them play on NA/EU in the qualifiers. This is a pretty big prize pool with international prestige. You can bet oGs, Prime, Fou, TSL, etc. would all set aside a few hours to play in it, and honestly, they'd win most of the slots. Inviting them actually gives western players a chance to get to the top.
Our top pros are good, but I doubt they could take out 5 top GSL Koreans in a row.
On January 02 2011 05:30 ScrubS wrote: Since i am a pretty newbie to TL, i haven't heard of TSL. But serial, i already love this community so much now and seeing so much spam for just this tournament is making me soooo superexcited!!!
You should watch the second TSL! There was massive hype between Nony and Idra clashing, and the drama that unfolded throughout the tournament was great.
checked the OP but didn't wade through 37 pages of responses... if we have both EU and NA accounts can our points from tem be accumulated into one score? or since imf rom NA will only my NA scores count?
On January 02 2011 06:28 RyanRushia wrote: checked the OP but didn't wade through 37 pages of responses... if we have both EU and NA accounts can our points from tem be accumulated into one score? or since imf rom NA will only my NA scores count?
Yea you can accumulate both together as long as you are clear about which are your accounts.
On January 02 2011 06:28 RyanRushia wrote: checked the OP but didn't wade through 37 pages of responses... if we have both EU and NA accounts can our points from tem be accumulated into one score? or since imf rom NA will only my NA scores count?
Your ladder score will be taken from both your EU and NA results.
Won't happen Tyrran. They already announced the map pool and I don't see it changing anytime soon until all other major tournaments use different maps.
If they were able to play in the TL opens u know what? it'd be a hell of a lot more than 13 players from korea. there would be almost none of ur favorite europeans/north americans. so actually THINK about the merits of this format.
No, travis. There is a misunderstanding. We're talking about Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean players here. Not the pro's of other nationalities living in Korea. It's a thin line.
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad. Players like IdrA and ret for instance, should have no problem qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the three players I mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based. jesus christ this isn't the olympics where nationality matters this is an e-sport where you log on the freakin internet and play the game
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their country - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
dude, what does it matter if they are citizens of the country not wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING
what does it matter if they speak english obviously most asians will not have secondary accounts to play on EU with
UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i can't believe ur actually suggesting that tl should somehow find out whether or not each individual KR server player is able to log onto EU and play in qualifers and then only invite OTHER players. how do you not see how incredibly unfeasable/stupid that is
or are you actually just saying that ONLY the white guys in korea should have to log onto EU at weird times to spend hours upon hours trying to qualify with only half the qualifiers as opportunities despite there being numerous koreans(some of them in the house with them) that could easily be doing the same thing?
edit: i went through and edited out all my caps. u successfully frustrated the hell out of me
"""""wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based""""
So are you saying the EU/NA players (Jinro, ret, huk, idra and haypro) in korea will not have a higher chance of being one of those 13 invited then other top koreans.
I have no clue who is going to be invited, but I think odds are at least a couple of them will be liquid players, and i am sure idra will be invited because he is one of the most consistent top players and has performed well in other TSLs. Jinro clearly deserves to be invited, and I suspect ret would be invited as he made code A and also has a history of good performances in TSLs.
Now guess what, if haypro, or huk, or idra or one of the other liquid players isn't invited then THEY HAVE NO WAY TO QUALIFY. so it's not like there is no downside for them. which sucks because im sure all of them aree good enough to qualify.
I for sure think Idra, Huk, Jinro and Ret should be invited and I will be very disappointed if they are not since they are some of the best EU/US have to offer.
Its just with TL running both the tournament and the team most of these guys are on, it can make it look suspicious that these guy ends of haveing an easier time getting into the tournament should they be invited. I do however think that were these guys not on the TL team they would still be invite since they are the best EU/US.(Well if they get invite)
I hope you realize how ridiculous this statement is. We know there aren't qualifiers for the Chinese and Koreans. That doesn't include players of other nationalities like I said before. HuK is still a Canadian citizen the same way IdrA is an American citizen. They have competed many times in many other foreign tournaments with minor problems. You can call it reverse racism all you want, but we're talking about equal opportunity here (no pun intended). The lat going from Europe to the Asia server really isn't that bad. Players like IdrA and ret for instance, should have no problem qualifying for the tournament. Yet, they are receiving the same treatment as players who earned their spots like Tyler and Mondi. Of the three players I mentioned only one of them qualified for the next GSL.
wtf does it matter if they are asian or not. the issue is where they are based. jesus christ this isn't the olympics where nationality matters this is an e-sport where you log on the freakin internet and play the game
I have no problem with inviting players from the Asia as long as they:
- citizens of their country - don't speak English - don't have access to the Europe Server(lat is ok)/ NA (lat is dreadful) - other network problems not allowing them to compete
I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's TL's tournament after all. I'm really interested to see how you guys go about selecting the actual Koreans/Chinese/Taiwanese/etc. players.
dude, what does it matter if they are citizens of the country not wtf does that have to do with ANYTHING
what does it matter if they speak english obviously most asians will not have secondary accounts to play on EU with
.....
or are you actually just saying that ONLY the white guys in korea should have to log onto EU at weird times to spend hours upon hours trying to qualify with only half the qualifiers as opportunities despite there being numerous koreans(some of them in the house with them) that could easily be doing the same thing?
StarStruck is speaking from the information given in the TSL3 General FAQ:
Why don't you allow everyone including Chinese/Koreans to join the TL Opens on US/EU?
We would have preferred doing something for everyone, but we have to be realistic. We are not ready and capable to deal with a hundred progamers playing our US-EU Open tournaments on borrowed accounts without us having a clue who is who. Such a tournament would be a logistical nightmare, with many players not able to communicate with their opponents or admins.
From our standpoint it is a choice between an invite system for Korea / Asia or no players from there at all, so we chose invites.
The FAQ states that the reason Chinese/Koreans are excluded from TL Opens, is because of a serious logistical and communication problem. Since English speaking progamers in Korea do not have this problem, it makes sense that they would be allowed to compete in TL Opens. Your last paragraph brings up a good point. There is no completely fair way to do this (how to handle such players), while having Asian players in the TSL.
Invitation may be too powerful a mechanism. It's like winning a tournament (well, a qualifying tournament) for free. If it's possible, better would be a smaller tournament that TL manpower can handle. That way, players would have to play for their spot. I'm sure there's enough TL translators / other Korean speakers to be able to run a smaller tournament. To be explicit, this is still an invite, or to better call it, a half-invite, compared to the current system. An open would be too big to handle.
Sorry if this has been asked, but this topic is 37 pages long: When it says 13 Korean players will be invited does that mean people of Korean descent, or 13 people playing on the Korean server?
I'd figure at the very least Idra and Jinro would be invited
On January 02 2011 07:03 SweetNJoshSauce wrote: Sorry if this has been asked, but this topic is 37 pages long: When it says 13 Korean players will be invited does that mean people of Korean descent, or 13 people playing on the Korean server?
I'd figure at the very least Idra and Jinro would be invited
If people are worried about favoritism and fairness then I think the best way to handle the invites is simply invite all the top GSL players and take the highest ranked of who accepts.
A piece of the puzzle that made us decide not to have Chinese/Koreans/Taiwanese in our US/EU TL Opens is the fact that Korea-EU is completely unplayable, and that these players would not be able to play the EU qualifiers at all. This is a minor reason considering logistics being the prime reason, before lag even becomes a consideration. When you talk about the English speaking progamers having to play the TL Opens, a major reason for not doing it that way is because they don't have a shot in the EU TL Opens, and thus would not have a fair shot at making it through. Hence they are up for consideration of our invites.
In the end Bnet has given us so many complications that for every decision we make there are like a thousand factors we need to deal with. One of the factors is that you cannot play at EU if you are in Asia.
Then you may argue well just allow EU players in the EU TL Opens and US plus the guys from the Korean server in the TL Open US tournaments, but then you put the US players heavily at a disadvantage because they suddenly get met with a huge increase in skill level for their qualifiers, while the TL Open EU ones remain the same. Then you may argue well only host TL Open US then, but then it puts the US players at an advantage over the Europeans. As you can see it is very complicated to deal with all the server problems, and we are confident that considering all factors the system we have come up with is the most reasonable.
On January 02 2011 07:11 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: A piece of the puzzle that made us decide not to have Chinese/Koreans/Taiwanese in our US/EU TL Opens is the fact that Korea-EU is completely unplayable, and that these players would not be able to play the EU qualifiers at all. This is a minor reason considering logistics being the prime reason, before lag even becomes a consideration. When you talk about the English speaking progamers having to play the TL Opens a major reason for not doing it that way is because they don't have a shot in the EU TL Opens and thus would not have a fair shot at making it through. Hence they are up for consideration of our invites.
In the end Bnet has given us so many complications that for every decision we make there are like a thousand factors we need to deal with. One of the factors is that you cannot play at EU if you are in Asia.
On January 02 2011 07:01 travis wrote: yeah honestly i would love to have idra + all the liquid guys in it, but i also would understand people then complaining about favoritism
One of the reasons they should still compete in the Opens if they have the time to do so. Insurance!
Yeah, travis now I'm more confused too, lol.
Either way, you never know what can happen because there is no consistency between the servers (MLG Dallas is a good example of this). That and every Open takes around 8+ hours to run. You never know what the latency can be like on any given day.
Naz is there any word of how you plan on dividing seeds 4-32? Or are you guys still in the planning stages of that?
The way I see it is this: They could create a new open in Korea, but that would be a logistical nightmare. So instead, they could allow the Koreans to compete in the NA/EU ones. Barring all lag issues, this would mean Koreans would be making up a huge number of players in the Western opens and having Western players win would be a huge stretch. Imagine if half the players in every TLOpen were from the top Korean teams. Even most of our pros wouldn't be able to take them all out.
At least this way, in the RO32, Western pros only have to take out a few Koreans, not 10 each time they attempt to qualify.
On January 02 2011 07:21 hmunkey wrote: The way I see it is this: They could create a new open in Korea, but that would be a logistical nightmare. So instead, they could allow the Koreans to compete in the NA/EU ones. Barring all lag issues, this would mean Koreans would be making up a huge number of players in the Western opens and having Western players win would be a huge stretch. Imagine if half the players in every TLOpen were from the top Korean teams. Even most of our pros wouldn't be able to take them all out.
At least this way, in the RO32, Western pros only have to take out a few Koreans, not 10 each time they attempt to qualify.
We have explained why we can't do this in the FAQ. Having 200 smurfing pros in the NA TLopen is a logistical nightmare.
So happy, TSLs show the height to which Starcraft can reach when you have an amzing game, a community of admirers, and a site deticated to making that community the best it can be.
On January 02 2011 07:01 travis wrote: yeah honestly i would love to have idra + all the liquid guys in it, but i also would understand people then complaining about favoritism
One of the reasons they should still compete in the Opens if they have the time to do so. Insurance!
Yeah, travis now I'm more confused too, lol.
Either way, you never know what can happen because there is no consistency between the servers (MLG Dallas is a good example of this). That and every Open takes around 8+ hours to run. You never know what the latency can be like on any given day.
Naz is there any word of how you plan on dividing seeds 4-32? Or are you guys still in the planning stages of that?
It's possible that there is no fair way of dividing seeds for 4-32. We are going to brainstorm on this hard in the coming days and weeks, but I could see it being possible that we randomize spots 4-32 if we can't come up with a good system.
to think about it, the past 3 mlg winners, huk, idra and jinro are all in korea... those 13 spots for players that are based in korea is definitely warranted
I think given the circumstances the system TL is using is the best one possible. All the players in Korea have repeatedly stated that the lag on Europe for them makes games on there virtually unplayable so they wouldn't have the same opportunity to qualify when compared to the NA and EU players. Invitations are not 100% fair either but they are the best compromise that can be made.
I have a feeling if they invite good Koreans like Clide, Tester, MarineKing , or Fruit Dealer it's going be be a roflstomp. Hopefully they just invite the average ones like Hyperdub or Kyrix or something haha.
I guess the shock to most people regarding the invites is in that the previous two TSLs were deemed foreigners-only. I guess the key to accepting these changes is to realize how different the situations are in StarCraft 2 compared to the TSL on iCCup days.
Anyway, which server will games be played on? How will this be decided?
On January 02 2011 08:29 nocontrol wrote: husky needs to cast, that would be awesomesauce
Husky does a great job at appealing to lower level players, but very poorly at appealing to the upper tier. Day9, on the other hand, does a good job at saying things that are interesting to all levels of player. I love what Husky has done for the community, but he lacks the enormous knowledge and insight that Day9 has.
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
I'm not sure if fair is the right word for this. It may seem somewhat inappropriate, but I don't see a lack of fairness. And when it comes down to it, I see it as a good thing. Giving BW players a BIG reason to take SC2 seriously is a great thing for the community and adds a lot of excitement for those of us who followed BW before transitioning to SC2. Sure, some aren't as proven in SC2 as they were in BW, but part of the TSL2 prize is the qualification into TSL3, just as it was for TSL1 to TSL2. Its a tough call, but I think they made the right choice.
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
Before TSL2 we said we may invite these players. No guarantees. Just that we would consider it. Now for TSL 3 we looked at these players and their accomplishments in SC2 and decided that two of them being absolute world class players and the third is a respectable 3100 on ladder is enough to continue our policy of seeding our previous top 3. Your argument is valid but it has simply been our preference not to have our previous champion and top finishers miss out of our tournament when we think they have the skill to compete. Tournaments without their previous champion are always a little awkward so we are very happy that these guys are as good as they are.
I dont think its favoritism to have a lot of liquid guys invited, this is TEAM LIQUID tournament, there SHOULD be at least 3 liquidians in this if not more. Honestly what i liked about the other two TSLs were that its the best foreigners in the world playing. For TSL2, all i heard was how it was the biggest foreign tournament ever. I understand that if Koreans were allowed to play in qualifiers, that this would be just like the GSL with 4 foerigners in it per season, but at the same time with 13 Koreans its going to be a Korean winning this thing, which makes me sad
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
Before TSL2 we said we may invite these players. No guarantees. Just that we would consider it. Now for TSL 3 we looked at these players and their accomplishments in SC2 and decided that two of them being absolute world class players and the third is a respectable 3100 on ladder is enough to continue our policy of seeding our previous top 3. Your argument is valid but it has simply been our preference not to have our previous champion and top finishers miss out of our tournament when we think they have the skill to compete. Tournaments without their previous champion are always a little awkward so we are very happy that these guys are as good as they are.
Just to add to this, Mondragon is also a very talented guy. I have no doubt that he will be incredibly impressive when TSL time comes around.
On January 02 2011 07:01 travis wrote: yeah honestly i would love to have idra + all the liquid guys in it, but i also would understand people then complaining about favoritism
One of the reasons they should still compete in the Opens if they have the time to do so. Insurance!
Yeah, travis now I'm more confused too, lol.
Either way, you never know what can happen because there is no consistency between the servers (MLG Dallas is a good example of this). That and every Open takes around 8+ hours to run. You never know what the latency can be like on any given day.
Naz is there any word of how you plan on dividing seeds 4-32? Or are you guys still in the planning stages of that?
It's possible that there is no fair way of dividing seeds for 4-32. We are going to brainstorm on this hard in the coming days and weeks, but I could see it being possible that we randomize spots 4-32 if we can't come up with a good system.
I think I have a method that could work, but it could be a nightmare to organize as well. What if we have a player draft that is reminiscent of the OSL group stages. With a few tweaks mind you. It would probably just add more drama rather than fairness. That and you would have to seed the players regardless of the outcome, but at least higher seeds will get to pick their poison and path to the title as champion.
Here's the breakdown:
Auto-generator
1. Tyler 2. Mondragon 3. sen 4. EU - Winner of 1st Open 5. NA - Winner of 2nd Open 6. EU - Winner of 3rd Open 7. NA - Winner of 4th Open 8. EU - Winner of 5th Open 9. NA - Winner of 6th Open 10. EU - Winner of 7th Open 11. NA - Winner of 8th Open 12. Top 8 non-winner rank 1 13. Top 8 non-winner rank 2 14. Top 8 non-winner rank 3 15. Top 8 non-winner rank 4 16. Top 8 non-winner rank 5 17. Top 8 non-winner rank 6 18. Top 8 non-winner rank 7 19. Top 8 non-winner rank 8 20. Korean invitee seed 1 21. Korean invitee seed 2 22. Korean invitee seed 3 23. Korean invitee seed 4 24. Korean invitee seed 5 25. Korean invitee seed 6 26. Korean invitee seed 7 27. Korean invitee seed 8 28. Korean invitee seed 9 29. Korean invitee seed 10 30. Korean invitee seed 11 31. Korean invitee seed 12 32. Korean invitee seed 13
Going from seed 32 and ending with Tyler each player would pick who they would like to face in the bracket for the ro32 and be allowed to swap two players as well. This way if lets say half the TLAF players get selected as invitees, while they will have their say early on, ultimately their destiny lies within how the brackets will unravel from the players above them. I think this could add a whole new level of drama and ultimately the top seeded players can really pick their poison.
This will give players extra incentive to win an Open as soon as they can in order to at least have a say in their route to the ro16 and so on. After all, you guys did use "Choose your fate" as the title song in your teaser video.
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
Before TSL2 we said we may invite these players. No guarantees. Just that we would consider it. Now for TSL 3 we looked at these players and their accomplishments in SC2 and decided that two of them being absolute world class players and the third is a respectable 3100 on ladder is enough to continue our policy of seeding our previous top 3. Your argument is valid but it has simply been our preference not to have our previous champion and top finishers miss out of our tournament when we think they have the skill to compete. Tournaments without their previous champion are always a little awkward so we are very happy that these guys are as good as they are.
Just to add to this, Mondragon is also a very talented guy. I have no doubt that he will be incredibly impressive when TSL time comes around.
Let's hope he gets to show some of it by avoiding the koreans....
I only saw TSL2 a long time after it was played, since I wasn't too much into the community by then, and I have to say I wished dearly I was there when it happened. I'm happy TSL3 is on its way! :D, good choice having 13 korean invitees, it makes the league VERY competitive and global, making it more important. Love the effort TL staff puts into these initiatives, shows their dedication, congratz!
The best new years news ever. Honestly nothing gets me more excited then these surprises from TL. I saw the nose and INSTANTLY knew what it was about. Thanks glider for drawing these, they are amazing!
HOLY MOTHERF*CKING HELL. BEST New Year's present ever!!!! I love TL. TSL 1 and 2 were MASSIVE. I can still remember the huge buildup to the first one, all the secret messages and the excitement :D, the event was AMAZING.
Here's to another fantastic production :D *raises champagne*
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
Before TSL2 we said we may invite these players. No guarantees. Just that we would consider it. Now for TSL 3 we looked at these players and their accomplishments in SC2 and decided that two of them being absolute world class players and the third is a respectable 3100 on ladder is enough to continue our policy of seeding our previous top 3. Your argument is valid but it has simply been our preference not to have our previous champion and top finishers miss out of our tournament when we think they have the skill to compete. Tournaments without their previous champion are always a little awkward so we are very happy that these guys are as good as they are.
Just to add to this, Mondragon is also a very talented guy. I have no doubt that he will be incredibly impressive when TSL time comes around.
Let's hope he gets to show some of it by avoiding the koreans....
The koreans that will be invited will be good but this isn't BW. The koreans aren't that far ahead of foreigners so I could honestly see a korean not winning this tournament depending on who all qualifies for this ^^
On January 02 2011 08:41 Random() wrote: It is somewhat weird that you have decided to carry the top seeds over to another game, in my opinion that is slightly unfair.
Before TSL2 we said we may invite these players. No guarantees. Just that we would consider it. Now for TSL 3 we looked at these players and their accomplishments in SC2 and decided that two of them being absolute world class players and the third is a respectable 3100 on ladder is enough to continue our policy of seeding our previous top 3. Your argument is valid but it has simply been our preference not to have our previous champion and top finishers miss out of our tournament when we think they have the skill to compete. Tournaments without their previous champion are always a little awkward so we are very happy that these guys are as good as they are.
Just to add to this, Mondragon is also a very talented guy. I have no doubt that he will be incredibly impressive when TSL time comes around.
Let's hope he gets to show some of it by avoiding the koreans....
The koreans that will be invited will be good but this isn't BW. The koreans aren't that far ahead of foreigners so I could honestly see a korean not winning this tournament depending on who all qualifies for this ^^
Of course the skill gap is no where near as big as it was in BW but it is inevitably going to widen with time. Who knows how far ahead they will be in march?
Oh and i assume the koreans will have to play on the NA server? I hope latency doesn't become too big of an issue.
edit: ^mordk, you would seriously invite haypro over Nestea? Where is Rainbow? Marineking?
On January 02 2011 10:45 Licmyobelisk wrote: hahaha I was like WTF! then I saw Tyler's handsome face
Well just imagine how Tyler felt. Must have been quite the surprise (assuming of course he wasn't warned).
Pretty sure the TLAF players knew ahead of time that this event was coming as many of them hinted at it in interviews, but I could be wrong.
On January 02 2011 12:33 Wawa wrote:
oh cool. thanks!
i wonder who i should send it to? hmm...
There is a thread for it. I would look in the other TL Open treads or do a quick search for it. If you don't have a stream on TL then you ought to set up one first. A simple search would suffice. Then again if you aren't featured, your application for casting the prelim rounds of the Opens will most likely get turned down. They have a vigorous process for screening, so I would look here first:
Of course the skill gap is no where near as big as it was in BW but it is inevitably going to widen with time. Who knows how far ahead they will be in march?
Oh and i assume the koreans will have to play on the NA server? I hope latency doesn't become too big of an issue.
edit: ^mordk, you would seriously invite haypro over Nestea? Where is Rainbow? Marineking?
Sure, I'd like to see liquid's players on the tournament. If you make me choose the awesomest available, I'd have to change that list a little bit, I'm not considering only my appreciation of skill in the players I'd like to see play .
How many good players have really come out of those 512 player brackets, though? The majority of round are bo1, anyone can lose those. I feel like we're going to get a lot of nobodies in the TSL and it will probably be dominated by the asians/gsl foreigners as they certainly won't be nobodies.
On January 02 2011 12:55 sjschmidt93 wrote: How many good players have really come out of those 512 player brackets, though? The majority of round are bo1, anyone can lose those. I feel like we're going to get a lot of nobodies in the TSL and it will probably be dominated by the asians/gsl foreigners as they certainly won't be nobodies.
doesnt matter if a supposed good player cant manage to qualify throught one of the qualifiers then he doesnt even deserve to compete in the main tour anyways
On January 02 2011 12:55 sjschmidt93 wrote: How many good players have really come out of those 512 player brackets, though? The majority of round are bo1, anyone can lose those. I feel like we're going to get a lot of nobodies in the TSL and it will probably be dominated by the asians/gsl foreigners as they certainly won't be nobodies.
TL opens have been won by Select and Drewbie, certainly not no names, with other top players such as Morrow, Tyler, TLO, Ret, ect being highly placed. No name scrubs will not be dominating. There's also just as many non-winners that qualify from consistent finishes. While I think gsl players may dominate, it won't be because it was a bunch of nobodies from the rest of the world.
On January 02 2011 13:11 omgCRAZY wrote: Has anyone else opened up different internet browsers just so they can relive the epic moment of opening teamliquid up and getting the tsl teaser.
Looking forward to more information on this. Going to be hard to choose which players should get the invites.
On January 02 2011 06:28 RyanRushia wrote: checked the OP but didn't wade through 37 pages of responses... if we have both EU and NA accounts can our points from tem be accumulated into one score? or since imf rom NA will only my NA scores count?
Your ladder score will be taken from both your EU and NA results.
sorry to ask again, but ltes say i placed 16th place in both a EU and a NA qualifier, do i have the summation of both points as a total, so a total of 28 points? or just 14
I currently just have a NA account, But im thinken of getting a EU account so i can play all of the tourneys. How do i get a EU account and will I Lag alot living in canada?
On January 02 2011 13:16 neoenigma wrote: Sigh... I was really hoping it would be Brood War. Starcraft 2 is actually pretty boring to watch most of the time...
Sorry you feel that way but alot of us don't. It really shouldn't surprise you at all that the next TSL is sc2 and not bw. Why would they run a huge BW tournament when most are playing sc2?
Gl to the guys playing. I won't be watching this since I don't like sc2, but for all those who are, it's going to be a hell of a ride. TSLs have always been amazing, so get hyped. Nice to see Pokerstrategy.com sponsoring again, but Razer TSL always did have a nice ring to it haha. Good shit TL for all the work you guys do for the community. Probably a far cry, but I do wish there would be a BW TSL again in the future. I'll be realistic though since no foreigners play it anymore =/ Glhf.
Saying it again, why cant TL.net contact korean tournament admins (playxp tournament admins) and ask if they could add another line for prizes. For example, "Winner gets spot for TSL3, Worldwide tournament with $34000 prize pool" ???
Benefits both korean scene and TL.net, unless there is chance that foreigners who are living in Korea wont make through but I guess that is what TL.net wanted first place by providing invite spots.
On January 02 2011 12:55 sjschmidt93 wrote: How many good players have really come out of those 512 player brackets, though? The majority of round are bo1, anyone can lose those. I feel like we're going to get a lot of nobodies in the TSL and it will probably be dominated by the asians/gsl foreigners as they certainly won't be nobodies.
TL opens have been won by Select and Drewbie, certainly not no names, with other top players such as Morrow, Tyler, TLO, Ret, ect being highly placed. No name scrubs will not be dominating. There's also just as many non-winners that qualify from consistent finishes. While I think gsl players may dominate, it won't be because it was a bunch of nobodies from the rest of the world.
yeah, and just the first rounds are bo1, where normally the pros are facing 2000 diamond scrub, lol,easy win. The later rounds are bo3 and bo5
On January 02 2011 18:49 Too_MuchZerg wrote: Saying it again, why cant TL.net contact korean tournament admins (playxp tournament admins) and ask if they could add another line for prizes. For example, "Winner gets spot for TSL3, Worldwide tournament with $34000 prize pool" ???
Benefits both korean scene and TL.net, unless there is chance that foreigners who are living in Korea wont make through but I guess that is what TL.net wanted first place by providing invite spots.
I think that not for now, but thats an awesome idea for future TSL
TL should talk to blizzard about getting some "hidden" accounts with name change for the tournament if possible so people cant spoil results and we will se all players ingame playing with their right name and not some borrowed account with another name.
Also no games from qualifers will be live streamed but through replays right? Since its so easy to cheat.
I'm a terrible SC2 player, so this interests me only academically, but this tournament has single handedly gotten me interested in improving my skills at...poker.
Yeah, I've really gotten into it over the last couple days, so I guess mission accomplished in promoting this, guys! Just got my 50, gonna play for real money tomorrow after I've slept.
On January 02 2011 23:01 TaKemE wrote: TL should talk to blizzard about getting some "hidden" accounts with name change for the tournament if possible so people cant spoil results and we will se all players ingame playing with their right name and not some borrowed account with another name.
Also no games from qualifers will be live streamed but through replays right? Since its so easy to cheat.
They said they have something ready to implement for the ro32, so I don't think they're worried about that.
Just came home from my nice New Year's boozing celebrations, and I couldn't have hoped for better news! HYPE HYPE HYPE!
Too bad it's only 32 players (I would've preferred 64) and Dimaga is still banned from TSL2 (right?). Nevertheless, there is no doubt in my mind that TSL3 will be a fantastic event. Even Mondragon is back for this! Go Teamliquid!
holy sh*t!!! epic stuff guys... hope this TSL becomes one of the leagues where the winner gets invited into the GSL....
slightly worried about all those korea slots tho... I know we all want to see good games but too many good koreans may just stifle EU/NA players.... still good tho.
On January 03 2011 07:19 amazingoopah wrote: holy sh*t!!! epic stuff guys... hope this TSL becomes one of the leagues where the winner gets invited into the GSL....
that would be great, if the winner is not one of the 13 asia invites^^ but ive been wondering how/when GOM will give away the 4 foreigner slots.
Wow. another TSL. Fuck yeah!. I followed TSL1 and TSL2 and they were awesome. This TSL will be awesome too. Still remember when Draco said " Made with balls"...really seems like yesterday for me :D
I will miss updating the nick.tsl ladder everyday and seeing who is qualifying.
I see that you are using the reason that EUR-KR is unplayable as justification for arranging the tournament and qualifiers in this way, but how about the actual TSL? How are you going to avoid lag during the tournament?
I would have preferred it be a stable tournament without the need to complain about lag and how it affected the results. With a tournament between NA+EUR+SA etc you would have also stayed more true to being the best and biggest "foreigner" tournament.
There is nothing they can do about it though. All these complaints should be forwarded directly to Blizzard. We have no other way.
I hate stupid cash grabs and that's exactly what they did. I would have fought it to the end if I were a Blizzard employee. It wreaks of Activision and it's a big slap in the face to loyal, hardcore base:
On January 03 2011 22:24 Project Psycho wrote: Probably a noob question, but are the qualifiers going to be streamed? i dont see it listed in the upcoming events list.
Cant wait for this to start, its going to be awesome.
All Liquid Open tourneys are streamed, so I guess that will continue. They're still "just" usual sc2 open (with a ranking system now) so I don't see why they would stop streaming it.
This is going to be awesome to watch all the top NA/EU pros go head to head with some koreans thrown in there, I'm assuming if the TSL can't get the korean players they ask for, those spots will be filled by a korean player next down the line, or will it be the next person in points from the 8 qualifier tournies?
This is great. A big thank you to pokerstrategy.com On a side note, I tried signing up to their website and/or forum to say thank you, but because I from the US I am not allowed. What is going on here? I use online gambling sites before.
On January 04 2011 16:51 Mr.Brightside wrote: This is going to be awesome to watch all the top NA/EU pros go head to head with some koreans thrown in there, I'm assuming if the TSL can't get the korean players they ask for, those spots will be filled by a korean player next down the line, or will it be the next person in points from the 8 qualifier tournies?
I do think that the best will come since the prizes are really high and as far as I know only the GSL has more and you don't have ProLeague like in BW to prepae for
I go on vacation without internet, and the first opportunity I get to come on TL I see this announced. I'm so happy right now, especially because TL Open is gonna get so much more intense that I feel really really bad for the new players seeking to make a name for themselves xD
Omg this is awesome !! TSL3 and Mondragon getting active in SC2?? He was my favourite player in BW (with Draco) and imo (one of) the most talented... Hope he'll do well
I don't understand the complaining about the liquid players in Korea getting an invite. I mean don't we all WANT to see Huk, Ret, and Jinro battle it out in this tournament? I mean it wouldn't be right without them would it.
I can't get over how sick the art in the teaser is... and music... I just watch it over and over and look into Nony's eyes... (and think about my drawing classes)
It's going to be epic!!!
Gonna try to put $15K in my pocket! It will be messy... it might be cheesy... but somehow I'm confident! XD
wait lemme get this straight: I enter and hopefully win one of the opens displayed on the original post I then am in the tournament I play at march profit? and also idk how to sign up for them and i don't feel like reading the whole thread to find out
On January 07 2011 03:00 SwisheR wrote: I don't understand the complaining about the liquid players in Korea getting an invite. I mean don't we all WANT to see Huk, Ret, and Jinro battle it out in this tournament? I mean it wouldn't be right without them would it.
I couldn't agree more, I haven't actually seen the invites from Korea but I sure as hell hope Idra is also getting invited.
what is the process for choosing the korean invites? and, what do people think... is a korean going to take this? if i had to bet i would go with a korean.
"Can I play in more TSL3 Qualifiers after I win one? No. Once you win a TSL3 Qualifier you cannot play in any more. If we discover that a player was secretly playing in TSL3 Qualifier tournaments after winning one, that player will forfeit his TSL3 spot and be disqualified."
I dont understand how Select and Nerchio can play this TeamSpeak TL SC2 Open #12 if they already won earlier?
Edit, sorry, I looked at wrong place. They did not won earlier.
Firstly, I want to thank the individuals organizing TSL3 Please view my post as constructive criticism with suggestions on how to improve an otherwise amazing event. Here goes:
On January 01 2011 14:00 TL.net Bot wrote: Why don't you allow everyone including Chinese/Koreans to join the TL Opens on US/EU?
We would have preferred doing something for everyone, but we have to be realistic. We are not ready and capable to deal with a hundred progamers playing our US-EU Open tournaments on borrowed accounts without us having a clue who is who. Such a tournament would be a logistical nightmare, with many players not able to communicate with their opponents or admins. Instead, we have chosen for a system that we know we can deliver on, and we will work to improve on it as we gain more experience. Everyone wants Chinese and Koreans to participate, including us. But right now, we're not ready.
From our standpoint it is a choice between an invite system for Korea / Asia or no players from there at all, so we chose invites.
When reading this I got quite confound. I do agree the above statement are valid reasons for excluding these regions mentioned. But seeing the invites I feel like the implementation of the rules hides other motives.
My points being: 1. Players from other non-EU/US regions with language barriers was able to participate. 2. Of 8 players invited only 4 had a language barrier, the others had EU/US accounts. 3a. Invites were meant to replace preliminaries from different regions. 3b. Yet no player outside of Korea is likely to be invited.
Regional preliminaries are an objective and result-based system. An invite system chosen to replace this should likewise be based on results in said region. Only two foreigners in Korea currently comes close to make the cut based on their own achievements in Korea(Point 2).
Players banned from competition should at least be given a reasonable evaluation in the replacing inviting process (Point 3). Some players, take Loner for example, has participated in western cups before and would certainly be capable to participate again, would they be allowed to. These players does not need an invite system! On the other hand, some players living in China/Taiwan would have a hard time participating in preliminaries. Yet they seem even more discriminated in the current system. I mean, wasn't it these players the invite system was supposed to reach?
To me the current Asian invite system fullfills the following purposes: 1. Securing participation for TL-popular players. 2. Netting players who otherwise would likely not opt to go through TSL preliminaries.
The current invite system is very Liquid-centric (GSL+certain western events). Additionally the foreign invites seems to be based more on popularity rather than their aichevements. Genius was invited because he won Blizzcon (Western tournament) while Kyrix who won GSTAR (Korean tournament) was not. I honestly belive the invited Koreans would have been capable of going through an TL organized prelim. The question is: Would they?
Obviously I do not have nearly enough information of invitation criterias. Therefore I'm forced to make certain speculative assumptions when analyzing them. Feel free to reboulk me =)
My suggestion for future TSLs: 1. Try making at least a few asian qualifiers happen. 2a. Allow all players to compete in all preliminaries. 2b. If an Asian wins a western qualifier, invite one less Asian and add a ranking qualifier. 2c. Earmark two invites for non-Korean asians (good for growing e-sports). 2d. Invites should be specific for players having difficulties participating in prelims(language barrier). 2e. Invites should be based on results achieved in the same region (lessens western bias).
The TSL qualification system embraces the importance of trying and making an effort in order to compete. CrunCher with his breakout performance and Nerchio (who's participated in every single qualifier) are shining examples of this. If Nerchio makes it into TSL it will be well deserved, certainly not because of former glory. This is also why I'm fine with GSLs one-time decision of inviting foreigners who already made the investments of going to Korea, but dislike TLs decision to invite the same people when they've not even lifted a finger to get into TSL.
Invite tourneys has their place, but TL is more of a grass-root organization. The qualification process should reward players willing to make an effort to participate, such players will also inspire and grow the community.
On March 20 2011 08:55 DMK 87 wrote: Alright...please don't kill me if this is a stupid question. But the first day of TSL is over right? I missed it. Can I see the VOD's somewhere?
dont want to complain about it, but why are wheat and husky saying that we are having a commercial break, and then i dont see a commercial just the normal pre game picture and sc2 music.
On March 21 2011 03:55 Fatso_Forgetso wrote: dont want to complain about it, but why are wheat and husky saying that we are having a commercial break, and then i dont see a commercial just the normal pre game picture and sc2 music.
We run a commercial via ustream. Some regions make not get it (rather just music and the standard image that is up there).
is there a page with an updated bracket/standings listed, I have scoured the site and the net and I have found only pre-tourney standings and the original bracket and the bracket contest. I have probably overlooked something, but I thank you for your help and patience.
i am lil new to the TL forums.. where do i check out the results?? i want to see the results of all the matches.. and i just saw the MVP vs adelscott game!! adelscott played like a tootal GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please do post a link as to where i can check results..
Crassulacean- dont post about things you obviously now nothing about ,also dont assume that the whole worlds agree with what you do , go and play halo instead
Hey, is there any thread that has the updated brackets? The upcoming Ro16? Or will I have to edit the original bracket image in paint and cross off who lost lol...
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/TSL3_Logo_Banner_1.png){kind=logo}
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/InfoFlowPrizes.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TSL3/InfoFlowTemp2.png)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/eu.png)
![[image loading]](/images/flags2/us.png)
NA Server
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Manifesto7/fuckina.jpg)
Perfect timing 
![[image loading]](http://collegeparksports.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/jizz-in-my-pants-andy-samberg1.jpg)
