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On May 16 2009 12:55 LucasWoJ wrote:
Are we allowed to play the game without ever looking at our role, or would that be against the spirit of the game as well?
That's kinda what I was thinking before the game started. So I'm not going to look at my role until after the elections. 
With that said, I'm going to say that BC's candidacy is also very sketchy like Bockit pointed out. Like in Ace's game, MTF became godfather mayor and pretty much handed over the town organization to Caller, probably trying to avoid the spotlight. Players have been known to blindly trust the mayor in every game pretty much, so BC may be attempting to avoid suspicion while getting into a position of power/save mafia lives/be invincible from vigi hits (not like there are so many vigis in this game). Of course I may be totally wrong. But this does look suspicious to me.
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@ Lucas: I believe Ver died day one in Chuiu's last game (TL Mafia 5) when he was hit three times.
Ace has been playing DOTA all night, but he posts right after the day post and has posted other places in the forum (Like in Pyrr's signup thread). Interesting.
We already have 6 votes for Ver for mayor. And one of them is from Caller, who says we should avoid bandwagons. Although his vote for Ver was early and may not be part of a bandwagon attempt, I'd like to simply point out that fact so that perhaps people (like Caller) may see the need to re-evaluate their votes. As for me I'm still undecided. And also wondering why some other people are not active/not running for office.
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Seems not to be too many posts for my liking, although the election is completely opposite of what happened last game since we have a lot of candidates. So I decided to try my hand at clue analysis.
The satisfaction on their faces was as plain as the horror that must surely be on his own.
nemY?
In his profile picture the emotions of both people are kinda ambiguous, perhaps pointing to the satisfaction/horror depicted here? Although Qatol uses the word "plain" to modify horror, so perhaps this is not a clue??
Behavior could fit...why are you running for mayor exactly?
Off the coast of Liquidia, there was no moon to illuminate the night sky.
Maybe this fits with regards to LucasWoj's profile?
Arrow, scythe, hammer. Moonlight. Alley.
However, the lights on the deck of the SS Liquidia were more than sufficient for the events that were about to transpire.
Its dark. But its apparently everything could be seen. Clearly. Perhaps dreamflower?? The picture in dreamflower's profile has a dark background, but it is pretty easy to see the details in the flower.
And where is everyone? Thread seems a little dead for a vet game...unless a lot of people are talking in pms, but still, the thread needs to be alive people!
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Inactive list:
Have posted very little (one or two lines) since day post:
Scaramanga
Fishball
nemY
RebirthOfLeGend
HeavOnEarth
Have posted nothing since the day post:
fusionsdf
Plexa
Camlito
infinity21
MrBabyHands
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Well things just got interesting...what do people have to say about this?
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He could also be a townie trying to take a hit from mafia if he knew that nobody would vote for him.
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I can tell you if they've been edited
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On May 17 2009 09:17 L wrote: No it isn't. Its incredibly fucking easy. I can already name 3 blue roles from the way people are acting, its pretty transperant.
I don't necessarily think you're mafia (again) but you keep insisting that you already know 3 blues. You obviously feel confident about this. So, why do you feel this way? I think it would be more normal to suspect 3 blues/reds not just 3 blues. You'd only know that for sure if you were mafia.
Moving on...I haven't read the Empyrean thing yet. (If anyone can give me a summary that would be great though, else I'll read it now.) But I think we should be wary about the people trying to cast doubt on nemY. If he is actually a DT mafia would try hard to keep him out.
Medics...no point making a medic list. We have so many good players mafia might just simply ignore the list and not have to worry about the "good players" on the list.
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On May 17 2009 14:40 L wrote: First off, I said that once. Second, you're quoting a post made FIVE HOURS AGO. Third, you've been very active between then and here. I started off my analysis looking for blue players because I wanted to know who to support and who not to support in the mayoral running. I personally think i'm 90%+ correct on them and for 2 of them i'm not sure exactly what role they are, but its pretty obvious that some are blue and not red. Why am I not saying anything about mafia? Because I want to be more certain and want to see if clues match up with those people who I find suspicious due to behavior/lack of activity/voting patterns. Basically you're saying that I'm mafia because I'm not accusing people of being mafia on turn 1. Okay, slick.
I was out for the evening. I would have responded earlier but I got a BSOD right when i was typing my post  had to leave then.
I'm not saying you're mafia. I think you are perhaps just being a little to confident in your blue picks. That is all.
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^^The rest of the contents are...not related to nemY being possibly blue. Those pms have not been faked unless we are both mafia
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^^ You are lashing out. Please reread my posts. I was just making an observation. I am not advocating your lynch.
@ BC and L: Do you really think I'd be that stupid to be a mafia supporting a mafia when its clear that this is a controversial topic?
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Not that ballsy unless Im green. Caller's game very little risks(GF). The risks I did take I solved by silencing mikeymoo. Last game a failed hectic crazy plan that wouldn't have worked anyway.
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^^hey zealot icon yay
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On May 17 2009 15:20 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 17 2009 15:16 Incognito wrote:
Not that ballsy unless Im green. Caller's game very little risks(GF). The risks I did take I solved by silencing mikeymoo. Last game a failed hectic crazy plan that wouldn't have worked anyway. you were a bit ballsy out there, making tiny informative posts that were kind of obvious hints at your fellow mafia that nobody picked up on -_-
You forget that there were also tiny informative posts asking why we (town) could purposely lose in order to hear you singing. Subtle and perhaps ballsy, but I wouldn't make tiny informative posts just for no reason. It was to gain trust. Here, defending nemY would not help me gain trust. Thus there would be little to no reason to do that if I were mafia.
Am I not allowed to use red tags unless its a serious accusation? (Look at SoG's posts) I was seriously considering removing the red tags. I ended up not doing that. Probably should have huh? Other than that I have stated many times (including in that post) that I am not accusing you now. If you really want to you can keep bringing up the subject. But right now I think it would be better not to sidetrack the us on some pretty useless accusation. Unless you think this accusation is the key to proving both me and nemY as mafia. Which I highly doubt you can do. If you can't, then I'd suggest we return to the task at hand which would be to elect a mayor.
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At least I'm a (semi) logical bastard.
With that said I'm going to take the precaution now for anyone else who is going to accuse me for not hovering over the post 24/7. I'm going to bed now.
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I feel uncomfortable about Ver since he really isn't doing what he says he would be doing. Traitor? Maybe. But that's besides the point. This L/Ace argument is getting us nowhere. And you both know it. I doubt nemY is mafia. On the other hand, I do have doubts on Ver/BC. I really don't trust Showtime! in a position where he is not able to be confirmed. And if Ace is going to act this way as mayor he probably shouldn't be mayor.
The thing is, if nemY is DT I would be ok with him being mayor/pardoner. Yes its good to protect key players. But these key players are generally hard to figure out. And on top of that, a lot of information can come from their deaths, assuming they take those precautions. However, a dead DT isn't worth all that much.
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^^You have no chance of winning.
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Why is nobody responding to my post? Either it is correct or it is flawed, I don't think you can have no opinion about it...
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This what? Is why you swtiched voting to Ace 20 minutes ago and said you were going to post an explanation, only to take 20 minutes to quote someone and write one word???
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Townies can make mistakes. Just because Ace is right doesn't mean he is green. It doesn't even mean that nemY is not a DT. If you people are saying that there is more to this and that nemY is actually red, I would say that there is more to THAT and that nemY is more likely traitor than mafia. Or he's blue.
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No my post wasn't in response to you.
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And nemY wouldn't make sense as a veteran. Veteran trying to get elected is dumb. And if he was planning on not getting elected, mafia could try to screw with the town and make them lynch one of their veterans instead of hitting nemY themselves.
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What? Im a little lost by your post.
I did not move my vote from Ace I never voted for Ace I voted for Showtime!
Oh I forgot about ties. But two extra votes for mafia do a lot when there's only 30 people playing. Pretty useful for mafia as Pardonner would probably be more useful in the late game.
*edit* well I guess this is useless then And wow long post from Ver...
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Other than sidetracking yourself by talking about Ace/Mynock being not innocent and then offering to lynch Showtime when you know he's townie...exactly why do you think he's innocent? And are you suggesting lynching him and also electing him pardoner? You don't want a pardoner do you...
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WHAT???? You say MTF is 80% mafia along with L at 78%, yet you say everyone voting for nemY is almost assuredly town. And MTF and L both voted for nemY.
And fusionsdf has posted like once. He posted one word I think. And yet he's 77% innocent?
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Would we be looking at the same picture and see completely different things? Not likely if you're innocent.
Most fail post ever IMO.
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Also if L is indeed mafia we might have a clue L's quote is "D". That is all thats in his profile and his name doesn't mean much. Qatol killed Pyrr with a bow. A bow can look like a "D".
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Will Showtime! be back before the election is over? I hope so...
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Ver is acting more than strange. He is acting strange but not mafia strange. I wonder if we have a role here we don't know about...or if he is traitor? Can't think of any other reasons he would act this way...
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Why has Ver disappeared all of a sudden...?
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He doesn't respond to my pms = fishy. Anyway bbl guys.
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Ace why do you want to lynch nemY if you get into office? I think it would be much better to lynch Ver. If nemY is traitor we can just ignore him.
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On May 18 2009 11:25 Mynock wrote:
Oh, forgot, why lynch nemY? I have said this a thousand times and will say it once more: confusion is BAD for the Town. nemY provided PLENTY of it. Look at the process of the elections. It was turned upside down with his help, and that's not a good thing. Also, he was lying. He might have innocent motives behind it, but he's just not helping his own cause nor Town. Even IF he is who he claims he is, he made some bad moves, and as a distraction, is best removed. If he turns out blue, that's too bad, but it's still better than lynch anybody on a hunch or random chances.
Lynching nemY does not clear the confusion. It just raises more questions unless he is the traitor. In which case it still might raise questions. There are still better targets for lynch. Like infinity21 who hasn't posted anything. Or MBH or Camlito
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Maybe he isn't blue but he definitely shouldn't be lynched. Nothing is gained out of it. We have plenty of potential suspects.
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Wait a second...to all people switching to Ace: If too many votes go to Ace, Ver doesn't get mayor. Just checking to make sure you are all aware of this, if this is what you want.
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Apparently we have 3 people who would vote for Showtime. If others did. Anyone else?
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On May 18 2009 13:42 L wrote:
Well, we're fucked. Well done town on letting a bunch of obviously over aggressive players completely hoodwink you with the platform that they are better than you.
Fantastic bullshit. I got to a party and people fucking lay down and let the three most suspicious players of the game dominate the discussion.
You were also attempting to dominate the discussion -.-
What about Mynock? Or dreamflower, who magically disappears after my clue analysis against her.
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For clarification the second line of my post was about potential lynch candidates in case anyone was confused/misinterpreted.
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Of course they're not. Ace doesn't talk in pms, remember?
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While we are waiting: Best site evar. Especially for all you people haters in here.
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Lawl. Reading Pyrr's game's day post I guess we may be able to figure out what's not a clue?
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We don't want to give out too much information now, do we? Unless we're meaning to accuse...
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Then its a lie.
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To explain, examine Ver's original suspicion of Ace/Mynock post. I like how he subtly says that either 0,1,2 of them are mafia. Then L says 1,2,3. We will find out more from the day post (hopefully).
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To add to the information database:
Ace had only one vote for him that did not change: MBH
Ver had 6.
infundibulum
caller
BloodyC0bbler
Scaramanga (who also was on the inactive list and also hasn't posted since then)
dreamflower
vivi57
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I'm guessing its too late now...sighs...just waiting for the day post...
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Or in the eyes of one person who always ends up being mafia!
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If you post the day post now I'll make sure you don't die 
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Yeah dummy. You're waiting for me to come protect you from (un?)dying.
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If I were mafia I'd start making kills starting from the top of the player list and go down from there
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Both bodyguards? Thats really strange...
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Hey Fishball was paramedic! Did you protect me from BC? You know he's out to get me...
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On May 19 2009 13:35 mikeymoo wrote:
*chuckle*
gl town.
You told the Ver/Ace your role didn't you...Or you told them something
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On May 19 2009 13:37 Ace wrote:
Ver is mafia.
Out of 3 hits that went through BOTH bodyguards get hit? So you really want to kill me on Night 2 so fast eh?
Sorry nemy, I'll rape you on Day 3. Ver that was way to obvious, even for you.
Ver is not likely mafia. More likely traitor. Making nemY a real DT?
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Something is definitely going on here. Fishball sees it long coming, along with Mikeymoo chuckling. I really hope you guys have been smart and passed your information on to someone.
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Hmm...I never actually read the post unless nothing is going on...maybe i should do that now.
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Ouch that was a brutal killing. Graphic too. And poor birdie
Anyway, back to work.
-----------------------------------------<LucasWoJ
Original Message:
Wow, I was considering the exact same thing the second he posted claiming that nemy was the traitor. In my early PMs with him, I tried getting him to indirectly answer the question of whether he genuinely thought that nemy was the traitor or whether he had some greater scheme (he assumed I meant, "nemy is a dt so he might live through the night.")
He essentially avoided answering for a time and eventually claimed that he was convinced nemy was not blue. After asking for my advice on how to post, he took three hours to gather his thoughts and post (after which he left).
Since, I've also had a conversation with nemy in which I was hoping for a specific response, but I got absolutely nothing. I'm not so convinced nemy is not the traitor. Here's the PM:
From: nemY
Subject: Re: mafia
Date: 5/18/09 11:57
Thanks!
-----------------------------------------
Original Message:
If the mafia family hasn't contacted you yet they're absolutely retarded. You're the most transparent traitor that has ever played this game. Just shut up and leave the thread already. You're going to die, get over it.
A little later, he PM'd me again saying: From: nemY
Subject: So?
Date: 5/18/09 12:22
Will you vote for me as mayor/pardoner?
I sent both PMs to Ver for him to comment (a day ago), but he chose not to respond to those PMs.
Also, in his first few posts, Ver said something to the effect of "would I be posting this often if I were mafia?" which raised my eyebrows a little. He had only posted three times in a matter of a couple hours before then (none of which were particularly long posts).
-----------------------------------------<Me
Original Message:
No he hasn't. He pmed me twice between this last post and his mafia % list post. Some people I've been talking to seem to think he's a strong candidate for mafia, but I'm more inclined to think he's the real traitor.
It would make sense in that
a) Qatol would give traitor to a person who could play the role well. its something we've discussed in irc when we were deciding the roles etc.
b) I doubt Ver would be this crazy to think this is good mafia play. He may be trying to get lynched. I don't know why he would want to get lynched this quickly as I don't think we were onto a real mafia candidate earlier on and I don't know if he would cause that much chaos unless we were onto someone he thought was mafia. But then again, maybe he is hoping to cause enough chaos to give the mafia a hefty lead early on.
c) It would explain his reaction to nemY. Sure, probably most people were pointing at nemY and saying traitor! But I think it would make sense for Ver to play this card. Note that the traitor would be the only person who actually knew if nemY is a true DT or not (I'm assuming nemY isn't red, and I don't think anyone does at this point). By diverting votes from nemY, Ver a) causes the town chaos, b) wastes a town lynch, and c) wastes the good office of mayor had it been in a towny's hands.
That is one possible theory. But its just a theory I don't know, what do you think? Something fishy is definitely going on. I doubt he's blue. He's acting totally out of character.
-----------------------------------------<LucasWoJ
Original Message:
Has he stayed in contact with you via PMs since his last post? It seems there's a trend in his posting (meaning the "I'll come on for a moment and leave without saying anything else", and I'm hoping it's only because of his illness).
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Except you never answered him for a whole day...
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Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary.
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^^ Do you have a CC for us ?
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On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover.
What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me?
Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend.
*edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley?
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Caller the only reason why you think cognizance is a clue pointing to me is because you made it a clue pointing to me when i was mafia in your game
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On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him.
*sigh*
He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection
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On May 19 2009 14:29 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:28 nemY wrote:Ugh fine take it for what it's worth please. Original Message: No, that is not a clue. Red herring! http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red-herring_color.jpg----------------------------------------- Original Message: since i'm running out of time, been busy, and haven't receieved much input i'll ask, is "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." a clue related to any mafia players? If i had more time and had actually been thinking about it, i'd get a better question. Enjoy. I think this is legit lol.
Hahaha. Nice red herring pic !
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On May 19 2009 14:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:36 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:34 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:32 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:29 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:12 Incognito wrote:
Thus supporting the idea that he's most likely traitor dont ya think? He wants to kill you obviously because it would sabotage the town. Eliminate both elected positions. For free. No mafia deaths necessary. If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him. *sigh* He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection .........i dont know what you are trying to qoute for or sighing about. I think there is some miss communication between us. /facepalm and you were doing so well too I might have just missed something. All i am saying is, Ver can't be traitor if you saying he offed his BG's. That would mean he found a mafia that trusted he was actually a traitor and trusted him and avoided talking to a townie who figured out he was traitor through pms or w/e. Point is, if Ver helped cause these deaths, then he is mafia. Though i think it could be possible luck what happened. But Traitor to me seems unlikely. Almost, but you still forgot one scenario: Ver isn't a traitor - he's mafia.
What? Why wouldn't he off his BGs as a traitor? He could just be attempting to make mass chaos. And he did say that if he were traitor he would make mass chaos.
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Explanation: Assume Ver is traitor. He makes chaos. He somehow finds the roles of his bodyguards. He kills them and then assumes that the mafia will off Ace as well.
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Ver never has to contact a mafia to make the plan to kill Ace. Its all a natural result of him wanting to make chaos.
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On May 19 2009 14:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 14:41 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:38 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:36 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:34 Ace wrote:On May 19 2009 14:32 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:29 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:27 Tricode wrote:On May 19 2009 14:22 Incognito wrote:On May 19 2009 14:16 Tricode wrote:
[quote]
If he was traitor then how would he get them killed? That would mean he found a mafia member, which i don't know how good you have to be to find someone that is mafia and tell them with out the worry of accidentally telling a person who is not mafia and blowing your traitor r/c cover. What??? Well this was in response to Ver so maybe you got confused since Ace posted right before me? Anyway I meant that Ver is likely traitor the way he's playing now. If he were mafia, this is quite frankly poor play. But if he were traitor, it would make sense. I'm not saying he told anyone he is traitor. But presumably Ver could have planned to get Ace killed (by the mafia) by killing off the BGs. BGs are dead, so both Ver and Ace can be night killed. Then both our elected town offices are down the drain, and Ace is dead (if he is town). Ver would also be dead, but it doesn't matter since he doesnt affect mafia KP. He would have wasted the two days for the town to eliminate him and thrown the town into chaos. Using L's terms, its a good risk to reward ratio isnt it? Nice play my friend. *edit...apparently the ":" sign before the "r" makes some weird smiley? The traitor thing doesn't make sense! Unless Traitor's role changed since the last time i looked at it. He can't kill people. He would have to mafia do it for him. *sigh* He doesn't actually kill Ace he just allows Ace to be killed by the mafia. Since now there's no more BG protection .........i dont know what you are trying to qoute for or sighing about. I think there is some miss communication between us. /facepalm and you were doing so well too I might have just missed something. All i am saying is, Ver can't be traitor if you saying he offed his BG's. That would mean he found a mafia that trusted he was actually a traitor and trusted him and avoided talking to a townie who figured out he was traitor through pms or w/e. Point is, if Ver helped cause these deaths, then he is mafia. Though i think it could be possible luck what happened. But Traitor to me seems unlikely. Almost, but you still forgot one scenario: Ver isn't a traitor - he's mafia. What? Why wouldn't he off his BGs as a traitor? He could just be attempting to make mass chaos. And he did say that if he were traitor he would make mass chaos. uh...I didn't say he wouldnt.
I was trying to answer Tricode there but quoted you oops.
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On May 19 2009 14:28 nemY wrote:Ugh fine take it for what it's worth please. Show nested quote +Original Message: No, that is not a clue. Red herring! http://sketchedout.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/red-herring_color.jpg----------------------------------------- Original Message: since i'm running out of time, been busy, and haven't receieved much input i'll ask, is "There was no clear horizon separating the star-filled sky and the dark, choppy waters of the Liquia Sea." a clue related to any mafia players? If i had more time and had actually been thinking about it, i'd get a better question. Enjoy.
Hey guys I just realized...IF THIS IS REAL ANOTHER DT HAS THE SAME PIC.
If you are this DT, it is safe to roleclaim to nemY. If you do not have this same pic, nemY is a fraud. I doubt Qatol would send a red herring pic to one DT and not the other. Is my logic flawed here anyone?
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Oh true. Hmm...well if you did get a red herring pic...
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Oh. I get what you guys were saying about the unlikelihood of Ver being traitor. It makes sense, although if he's mafia that is awful poor play. Like you've said, this is a veteran game. Anyway, leaving Ver alive doesn't make sense either way as he is causing the town chaos, and even if he is traitor, that's 3 votes for the mafia....
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To everyone who is saying: They're smarter than that: Look. Smart people can often make stupid mistakes. Stupid people, on the other hand, usually make less smart mistakes. But really, if you are going to play this game assuming that everyone is "smart enough to not do X", well guess what? They'll do it. Being smart means you take risks and you sometimes play unpredictably. Or else they'll catch you with your pants down when you point and say, "Hey they're too smart to do that".
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Um...no you didn't? I thought you said lynch lynch lynch gogogo.
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The other possibility is that Qatol screwed up
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^Actually I think that was part luck. Part a gamble.
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@ BC: Um...L was never pushing to wait to lynch both. He wants to lynch Ace now, but apparently you aren't listening?
@ Scamp: Why do you trust Ace more? Also, you say it is way beyond coincidence, but then you say they didn't roleclaim. What DO you think?
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L, why is dreamflower in the bag? I did suspect her in the beginning...but that was off some shoddy behavior and some clue analysis that is probably wrong. A day 2 clue analysis doesn't do much better...
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Compromise...Mynock kinda hit it. BC is fishy. Very fishy. Especially with the whole not paying attention to L thing. And the all out anti-Showtime "clue".
L is afraid that Ace will pardon dreamflower. So what we do, is we lynch VER today, and save dreamflower and BC for tomorrow. Ace wouldn't pardon because he's not up on the chopping block. So we just lynch Ace the next day. Everyone happy?
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Plus I'm more suspicious of Ver
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Then vigi Ace tonight if Ver flips not town.
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No but we do need solutions don't we? You seem to be content here fueling the fire and throwing the town into chaos...
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Oops. Thank you
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Can I kill BC and Caller as well?
And...
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v this poster
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But...I thought we get 3 hits?
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On May 20 2009 12:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 12:18 L wrote:On May 20 2009 12:13 Bockit wrote:
L, that only works if we're killing Ace with our double lynch. Ace should never get hit during a double lynch because of pardoner status. Well two things can happen: a) The person Ace pardons is red and we have an auto-lynch for day 3. (we can even vote for another 2x lynch tomorrow if I'm reading the rules correctly if we have another definite hit for that day) b) The person Ace pardons is blue and he did us the favor of saving someone. The problem that arises is that persons judgment is up to the town. We could just use the DT to find out that guys role or just choose to not lynch that person assuming Ace is trying to trick us. Though thinking about it the ability for Ace to pardon tomorrow does make him more of a liability than keeping Ver alive. I honestly believe that Ver is not mafia. He hasn't even done anything as mayor aside from making an accidental lynch. We know he doesn't trust Ace this game so he probably wanted to see what Ace would say when he asked between myself and MBH.
So you assume everyone is innocent unless we prove them guilty??? Kinda hard to go by that, I think. We have plenty of stuff on Ver.
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^^ Well...I'll protect you from undying like i promised yesterday and you'll let me unkill LTT?
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On May 21 2009 10:16 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2009 09:12 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote:On May 21 2009 07:56 MTF wrote:
- This isn't really a late bandwagon. In fact, I'm more fearful of the one I feel is approaching. Namely, the one that comes right after Ver posts a novel in a few hours, just before the vote closes. Yeah, Ver's absence is unusual. It's possible he's been really, busy; he did mention defending his honors thesis or something like that. But he hasn't even popped in to just leave a remark since right after the day post Yup Mynock you know it's coming. I have been busy yes, but I've still been around plenty. I have pm'ed a lot of people I felt were innocent regularly after I realized talking in the thread was useless, and have been busy doing analysis and feeling too apathetic to deal with this awful mess. It was a real pain trying to refigure out this game after I realized a huge number of people that I considered were playing well below their normal level are simply dumb non-mafia. Yeah it was a huge mistake to run for mayor and watch it kill my motivation, sorry. But I don't care about fulfilling campaign promises if the situation changes. As mafia I have much more reason to keep suspicion off myself and stick to what I say whereas I'll do if I please if I'm innocent. Don't worry my reveal-all post will come soon. Need to write it and send some things to my coalition first.
I'm innocent you haven't been talking to me :O
Anyway I'll be back in about an hour and a halfish
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I'm not done finishing reading the thread yet (5 pages in 1.5 hours is shocking considering there was barely anything this morning) but what if for our double lynch tomorrow we lynch L and Ace? Sounds reasonable. Ace hates L's guts, so he isn't going to pardon. We get rid of both at the same time and we get to kill Ver tonight
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Hmm...just read Ver's post...and was about to post my list of suspects here.
Malongo
Tricode
BloodyC0bbler
Ace
L
MBH
Maybe scaramanga.
Reasons:
Malongo: Been too quiet. Usually acts more stupid.
Tricode: Way too active last game when he was green. Has said like nothing this game.
BloodyC0bbler: Has some weird logic. This one's lower on my list though.
Ace: Possibly traitor. Dunno.
L: This L vs. Ace thing makes me think L is probably something....
MBH: too quiet. Also three blue deaths doesn't make him look any better. Ofc there are a lot of other potential behavior analysts out there, but MBH hasn't said too much. At all.
Finishing reading the post now...hopefully before voting ends.
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I am on your vengeance list because I voted for you? You remind me of the village idiot...oh well. Ver will get modkilled by Qatol yay. Confirmed.
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Qatol says:
i can confim that i will modkill though
*edit
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That was through msn btw so dont try finding it in the thread.
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To open the floodgates of information.
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Can we have an official vote tally here?
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By destructive force on the game I'm guessing it means he will leak the mafia list. Which probably means that he is red and if he isn't lynched he won't actually ask to be modkilled. Which is why Qatol is now emphasizing that fact? In that case...vigi it Ver? Lynch Ver?
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On May 21 2009 13:11 Ace wrote:
Check it - infundibulum and RoL just zerg rushed too.
Take dreamflower off my list until another person claims Vigi. With 6 players Mafia won't want to or hope that an inactive Vigi was the case.
NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS - clear the Vigi issue first. Once thats done, go back to voting list of zerg rushers. Your FIRST suspect should be BC, second should be RebirthofLegend and Incognito.
Then and only then shall you move on to nemy. Don't drop the fucking ball on this.
Medic - of all people not to protect tonight DO NOT protect anyone that voted to have me lynched. DO NOT FUCK THIS UP. There should only be ONE person on that list you should even be thinking about protecting and it's so fucking obvious I wont even say it.
Last but not least, READ my posts. There are tons of little hints in them.
At least Ace is setting up for what we should do after his death...
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On May 21 2009 13:21 Vivi57 wrote:
You guys do realize that ace is probably traitor right?
traitor's goal is TO GET LYNCHED. This delays the town by a day and helps the mafia.
What will you guys do when ace flips traitor?
We find out that there is no more traitor and that everyone else who could have been traitor is either red/green.
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I'm not. You were acting pretty stupidly.
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On May 21 2009 13:38 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2009 13:37 Incognito wrote:
I'm not. I was manipulated like a fucking assclown Right you are bucko.
Quote my quote
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On May 21 2009 13:49 L wrote:
FULL LIST OF PMs.
Go.
That's probably a lot...
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Well, speaking of planning (*cough* L *cough*), what do we do with dreamflower's hit? She is already exposed to the mafia, might as well attempt to use it before we lose it.
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Well...since nobody's doing anything useful, I might suggest MBH as a target for viging. He probably should be analyzing by now, and he seems rather unhelpful to me. Other suggestions might be Tricode, 0cz3c, or Malongo? I'm not sure. But we should probably have some discussion. I think if we hit at least a mafia or two with the vigi hit + double lynch it'll give us decent chances
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Why should both L and nemY be lynched? You have no argument there...if you think L is the traitor, then nemY can't be, and would probably be legit or mafia, but I doubt he's mafia. Explain your rationale for lynching nemY please?
And seriously we need to discuss vigi targets. MBH comes to mind here as I've said before. None of the others I mentioned have been saying anything useful either.
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On May 22 2009 07:13 HeavOnEarth wrote:
@ incognito, why do you think nemY is innocent?
Also , i probably should've added this before but
If nemY doesn't die to mafia tonight, we should lynch him tomorrow.
but eh, mafia could purposefully not hit him , expecting the town to lynch.
However, nemY can use his shit(detective) this night, right? =/ so that might, prove his innocence? =/..
Asking why I think he's innocent does not answer the question of why YOU think he's mafia. Please if you're mafia give a better reasoning than that. (If you're town you also need a better reasoning too). You're saying that because we can't guarantee we should hit him. I'm pretty sure we have better suspects then nemY now.
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On May 22 2009 14:47 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote + Seeing no recourse, infundibulum pointed a single finger towards the freezer. The larger man nodded and moved in that direction. infundibulum let out a sigh of relief before realizing the smaller man's attention had never left him. LYNCH CHILL
*Fixed*
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Anyway, lynch subjects. Nice hit on Caller. I assume some magical thing happened by pm and he got caught? Don't know why he would claim mafia publically there....(btw Caller you can't call me crazy/ballsy when you already claimed red a while back yourself ).
Suspects? Well, a small man comes up again. Don't know but I'm still suspecting MBH. But I'm wondering if we can get his point of view. What was going on between L and you?
L claimed he left information with townies. Maybe he left instructions with that information, but we need to step it up here. If that information is useful now, post it. I am pissed right now at L. I'll nominate him for stupidest townie of the game award. Anyway moving on...
Clue analyzers. You know who you are. Its day 3 so there is NO EXCUSE for you not to be posting. If we're going to win here we have to get working immediately. Frankly I think we have decent chances if everyone will do their part.
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BTW awesome post I like Qatol's day posts. Although this game has a lot of drama like the random modkill, at least the day/night timings are more consistent than in previous games.
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HeavOnEarth is fishy. I didn't post this earlier but I will now.
Go look back at page 78. HeavOnEarth bursts out and accuses nemY quite harshly. Then I ask him why he thinks nemY is guilty. He responds by asking why I think he's innocent. When I reply and say that that isn't a valid response, he just shuts up. Sounds pretty fishy to me. The other behavior is also totally useless to us. So is 0cz3c's. So I'm voting for them.
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L you're stupid.
Also why didn't I die?
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On May 24 2009 14:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:You were being semi manipulated by showtime, and we knew he had been checked and flipped green (thanks nemy), then coupled with the fact for awhile we thought you were the second vet
Apparently MBH didn't think that...
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On May 24 2009 14:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 14:41 Incognito wrote:On May 24 2009 14:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 24 2009 14:38 Incognito wrote:
L you're stupid.
Also why didn't I die? You were being semi manipulated by showtime, and we knew he had been checked and flipped green (thanks nemy), then coupled with the fact for awhile we thought you were the second vet Apparently MBH didn't think that... He actually fished the info of your role out of someone, I believe the concensus was that you were vet at first then nemy goof fuck revealed it or you did to mbh. Was more of a fishing expo, we didnt actually know you were the other dt till the beginning of day 3
nemY I hate you....or is it my fault?
*edit
Also why give up...I don't see how you guys would have lost even with vivis death...
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I checked Showtime!. I was going to check him even before nemY told me that someone asked him to check Showtime! and...was it...forgot who now.
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On May 24 2009 14:47 L wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 14:44 Incognito wrote:On May 24 2009 14:43 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 24 2009 14:41 Incognito wrote:On May 24 2009 14:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 24 2009 14:38 Incognito wrote:
L you're stupid.
Also why didn't I die? You were being semi manipulated by showtime, and we knew he had been checked and flipped green (thanks nemy), then coupled with the fact for awhile we thought you were the second vet Apparently MBH didn't think that... He actually fished the info of your role out of someone, I believe the concensus was that you were vet at first then nemy goof fuck revealed it or you did to mbh. Was more of a fishing expo, we didnt actually know you were the other dt till the beginning of day 3 nemY I hate you....or is it my fault? *edit Also why give up...I don't see how you guys would have lost even with vivis death... The vote train and voting activity was BLATANT. they were obviously trying the all-in push we did day 5 last game, but it failed.
Hmm...maybe. Well I haven't read the last five pages before they gave up...so I dont have the whole picture? Reading now.
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Hmm...Town MVP 0cz3c? I seem to think that his defense was pretty useless, inflammatory, and quite frankly mafiaish but maybe I'm missing something?
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On May 24 2009 15:09 Tricode wrote:
MVP Ocz3c?
most valuable player?
I meant why is he MVP not what is mvp...seriously I should start ignoring your posts.
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Oh also was the two BGs dying luck or was there behavior analysis/claiming involved?
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On May 24 2009 15:14 L wrote:
That's why i switched the vig to him. I figured MBH would be killed 100% the next day because if i died it was so obvious he was mafia.
In all fairness, there was a HUGE bandwagon attempt, but town should be running the numbers on their chances of survival to see how ambitious mafia are going to be with the votes.
And you still medic protected him...
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On May 24 2009 15:16 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 15:06 Incognito wrote:
Hmm...Town MVP 0cz3c? I seem to think that his defense was pretty useless, inflammatory, and quite frankly mafiaish but maybe I'm missing something? Absolutely you are. He outplayed everyone else this game by a decently large margin. Reread his posts. He only got agressive in his posting when people ignored his first posts. His reads were 100% correct. He caught MBH Showtime! and BloodyC0bbler but nobody listened to him.
It's not what you know, it's what you can convince people to believe.
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BC when did you get in contact with the mafia?
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On May 24 2009 15:26 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 15:26 Incognito wrote:
BC when did you get in contact with the mafia? he wrote MBH as mafia a long time ago apparently he didn't suspect me as red until the night i died
Hardly anyone (except MTF?) knew you were mafia until the end...
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When you act bulldoggish nobody wants to listen to you. Even if you're right. So just don't do it.
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And I'm still confused maybe MBH can clarify? What did you exactly think I was? Since you did say you thought I was DT then disappeared. Were you ever sure of this?
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On May 24 2009 15:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 15:33 Incognito wrote:
When you act bulldoggish nobody wants to listen to you. Even if you're right. So just don't do it. nah, I'll keep doing it. I like to see the looks on your faces after.
I feel no regrets on killing you if you do it.
My face:
before your lynch : -_-
after your lynch: -_-
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Anyway, Mafia played a great game and should have won.
Actually...
Town played a terrible game and should have lost.
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On May 24 2009 16:26 Tricode wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 16:25 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On May 24 2009 16:24 Incognito wrote:Anyway, Mafia played a great game and should have won.
Actually... Town played a terrible game and should have lost. seconded My only regret was not being able to get you killed like i wanted.
Maybe I should have just not switched my joke vote of killing BC...
And 0cz was kind of right at the end. Bad presentation and bad timing though. MVP probably should be MTF...
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On May 24 2009 16:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Town mvp should be 0cz3c, the guy had our numbers, and hard. MTF as a close second.
Mafia mvp should be L for the obvious work he did for us.
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Sigh. The end of game comments. The time where everyone yells about how they knew X and Y were mafia and how Z was MVP because he guessed correctly that X and Y were mafia...
A while ago (don't remember when, but I think it was after a game where mafia got completely destroyed), we discussed how most people didn't know how to play mafia well. Well, now that's kinda different. People know how to play mafia decently, they don't know how to play town well. Seriously all of this "I knew X and Y were mafia from day 2" BS doesn't matter if nobody can trust you as town. The yelling and other chaotic tactics employed by L/0cz3c/Ace don't help the town either. This style behavior makes it fairly easy for them to hide when they are in fact mafia. The ambiguity and chaos caused does not help the town.
Its not the town's responsibility to figure out what you're really trying to say. Its not the town's responsibility to "read objectively". The only reason you'd have to post emotionally is when you're mafia. Its not your job to be right then act strangely arrogantly just because you are right. Its your job to make the town think you're innocent, then proceed accordingly. I think that people like Ace play this game simply to prove that they are right. They yell a lot, get themselves lynched, then yell back at the town saying how they suck and that they were too blind to see what was in front of them...It doesn't help at all. All it gives them is bragging rights to tell the town how they were right all along and that the town is stupid. At the point where you start bulldogging you might as well be dead. They are useless to you alive. Nobody will or wants to or even should listen to you KNOWING WHAT THEY KNOW at that point. Of course in retrospect you can yell at them and say how they suck, but it makes no sense when AT THE MOMENT you are just bringing suspicion onto yourself and not helping the town.
A lot of townies did not do their job to make it clear that they were town aligned. I won't mention names but seriously you can't expect to construct poor defense, appear out of nowhere with accusations, and yell when there are better things you can be doing to help the town. Painting yourself as a target does not help the town at all. A townie's first job is not to find mafia. It is to make sure that he looks like a townie. Otherwise looking for mafia is hopeless. A lot of townies made themselves very suspicious. Mafia capitalized on this fact. As a rule, concern yourself with taking care of your own role before looking at other people's roles.
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Also what did you guys think about the mandatory voting? Seems to me it didn't help activity all that much, it just made people more suspicious even if they were town. *cough* camlito *cough* plexa...
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People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere.
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On May 25 2009 10:50 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 10:47 Incognito wrote:
People always ignore what they did wrong and tell others that they're pointing fingers. It gets us nowhere. I love how a DT got the other DT scared enough to roleclaim.
???
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Oh. Hahaha.
Was that my mistake...? Or his...
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Im not complaining. Except for the fact that you were talking to mafias. Oops I was doing that too. Why do I always get screwed over talking to GFs...or be a GF myself. Hey that's pretty fun...
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On May 25 2009 17:51 L wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2009 13:04 Ace wrote:On May 25 2009 11:53 Showtime! wrote:On May 25 2009 04:52 Ace wrote:
@Showtime!
You guys were a lot farther from the win than you think. The game only tipped when you and MBH came out in public and started posting.
Before that, if anyone was paying attention you guys pretty much had no chance to win because you were too exposed. Once Ver died - you, Caller, and BC were all out in the open.
Also lol @ blue sniping: look at what MBH just posted. Come on man how many times do I have to tell you guys I don't believe in that shit. If people just stop trying to play the game in PM land and keep their heads in the thread they'd stop fucking themselves and the town over. Do you want to read our MSN chat logs? Matt not only knew who was blue (with the exception of Lucas and MM because there was no way of telling they were BGs), but he knew their exact role. Originally we were going to get Heavon and Tricode. 9v6 or 8v6 (with Cam Modkilled). Do the math and look who was left. It would have been easy. We had everything planned out, so don't give me that whole 'you were far from winning shit.' Qatol was going to end the game as long as we lynched off two greens. End of story. There were too many mishaps and all of us were sick and tired of it. your talking about the very last night, I'm telling you you had it lost days before that. If you really think you had it that easy then you wouldn't have felt the need to quit. you fail. GG. Well, yes and no. If town had 2-3 more players who were active, yes. But they didn't, so no. Then again, look at the replies here. People are like 'LOL ITS NOT THE TOWN'S JOB TO THINK", "PLEASE GUIDE US IN A SHEEP-LIKE MANNER". Maybe 2-3 people wouldn't have done anything afterall :3.
I never said its not the town's job to think. But your later post did say what I was trying to get at:
This very auto-aggressive defence when criticized is exactly what I'm talking about. It makes you too suspicious as a townie, and sets you up for a mafia seeded fake clue interpretation or behavioral analysis.
Its really quite difficult when sniffing out mafia to have to sift through townies that are self incriminating.
I think we can agree that it is better to force mafia to look townish via townies making sure they look green instead of allowing mafia the luxury to appear suspicious because of townies who are doing the same. Simple activity is not enough. Mafia still hid well in this game even though most people were active. People need to be active, but they must act in the right way to force the mafia to act like the town. If townies self incriminate, we have even more problems.
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EPT
