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On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out.
2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him?
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Whats more, why bother posting rough numbers? You ARE on a computer you know. You COULD calculate these things properly easily.
By saying that the 1/7 group is the worse list really shows how little thought you've put into this.
Just because there is a slightly higher percentage of Assassins in the larger list, doesn't mean it's somehow easier to get at them. They are hidden amongst the masses, requiring a huge amount of effort to get at. At least with the 1/7 group, a single repeater will put the Assassin in a new list with, at worst, a 25% Assassin percentage.
Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace? Please drop this plan. Cross referencing lists will be far more effective at singling out Undead.
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On March 26 2008 16:49 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:44 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out. 2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him? It doesn't matter if they split evenly, he is forcing the mafia to vote, AND he is making them vote the way he wants them to. Otherwise they could vote for whoever they wish, whether abstain, or voting for someone with little votes to make it look like they are trying to be helpful. The fact that he has that power means he is forcing the mafia to play on his own terms. That puts the mafia at a disadvantage because that means they will be voting for their fellow teammates (as shown with Mandolar). He sets up the suspects, yes, he does, it gives him a lot of power, but I see no reason as to not trust him as of yet. No detectives have spoken up yet, I've talked to him in PMs a couple times, and he seems no threat to me at all as a townie. Therefore, until he pulls some stunt that warrants enough suspicion, I have no problem with him using such power to have the town move forward in lynching mafia. Also, even if I did have a problem with it, there would be nothing I could do since the vast majority of the town trusts Ace, and will follow him. Well done for once again, missing my point entirely. Also good job on skimming over the bits of my original post you didn't care to argue with.
Yes criminals had to vote against Mandolar. He was dead anyway, and the mafia would not have swayed the vote in any case.
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I realise Ace is highly trustworthy. I realise most of the town will follow him whatever he decides to do. What does that matter though?
Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. Highly trustworthy does not mean is can't be a demon in disguise. Highly trustworthy DOES NOT mean that townies should defer ALL power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently.
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On March 26 2008 16:52 Ghar wrote: The currently list nets half the Mafia. I believe working with that information is a good idea. Cross analyzing them will reduce the list down substantially.
Working on abstained voters, you can't really work on them can you? On that point:
Ace is not suggesting we Cross Reference. His plan involves splitting the list and re-checking numbers.
Cross referencing is taking a new sample, and a new number... and seeing how many people are on both lists, how many people suddenly dropped out from voting. How many people aren't on either list and so forth.
Working with abstained voters:
Chuiu, can detectives check abstain lists?
We can ask why they abstained, check the number of times they abstain, look for patterns of inactivity or unwillingness to vote... Suggesting that abstaining voters aren't able to be examined is highly flawed. (Remember inactive non-voters are kicked).
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On March 26 2008 17:00 Alventenie wrote: Sigh, first of all, I am not Ace, I am Alventenie, not a mayor, just a townie.
Also, based off of your first post, the 1/7 groups is statistically the worst decision to try to go after in theory (which is what you are basing your post on). In reality, it moves us closer to 1 mafia, but that could take up to 2 more turns to find (say he is in the 4 group, split 2/2, then split 1/1), where as the group of 10/58 could be split into smaller groups which find more mafia in smaller groups (you could easily see 4 or 5 mafia in a group of 14 the very next day, which is anywhere from 27%-32% chance of mafia), but aside from that, we find innocent townies. Yes, find the 1/7 group will find us 6 innocents, but breaking up the large group of 58, we could find groups of 14 or more innocent people. A big deal with this is the number of detective abilities we are allowed to use, therefore eventually some groups won't be questioned about. Therefore while i see that 1/7 is easier to figure out, I would rather move along with the 2 groups of 29 because you are going to find more mafia faster, giving vigilantes targets, allowing us to reduce mafia kill count faster.
Finding one mafia compared to finding 10 mafia, I will stay on the 10 side. Its taking a risk, but that risk has a much larger reward compared to finding the 1 mafia (which Ace has already stated that we will find that one, because he is checking the group of 7 as well as the 2 groups of 29). So I really don't see why its such a huge deal that he is making people vote the way he wants to tomorrow. As it stands, nobody has spoken against Ace, so he is trustworthy, both the group of 7 and 58 will be checked tomorrow (you said we should check the group of 7, its being done already).
Cross checking the lists takes extra time, more notes, and most of all, sometimes it doesn't work. I would rather go with a concrete list of, I know this many people on this list are Mafia, so I want to keep it that way. I have no problem with that thinking, and until it proves ineffective I believe its the route that Ace is going to take for finding mafia. Find me where I confused you with Ace. If I said Ace, I was talking to Ace (It is his plan after all, not yours).
Extra time? Negative. What takes extra time is forcing votes for 4 turns to find 1 mafia (and you tell me this is the best group?). 4 turns, each time increasing the number of detectives you need... Thats 6 lots of DT power you are suggesting just for the smaller group (which I said right from the beginning was the best).
Don't even get me started on the time and resources required to produce results from the group of 58... FIFTY EIGHT PEOPLE. You're looking at weeks of game time, and many many DT powers used when they could be doing something more useful.
Again, missing all the points you didn't like to counter. My argument was never meant to be taken on a point by point basis. Even when it is however, it still stands up to your current ideas.
You haven't even touched for a second on the inherent problems with forced voting (for a huge number of turns your suggesting), even leaving aside that you cut out any entertainment that those townies might have had.
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On March 26 2008 17:10 Alventenie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:56 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:49 Alventenie wrote:On March 26 2008 16:44 Alethios wrote:On March 26 2008 16:38 Alventenie wrote: Ok, I'll post about your argument, I didn't use a calculator, but i have rough numbers for you.
Saying using the powers on 2x groups of 29 on a 10/58 group of mafia is his worst choice (it isnt, the 1/7 is). That means the remaining people are thrown into a group of (103-65 = 38), that means 9/38 (~23.4%) of guessing. The only problem with having those 38 vote, is that
A) They all voted for different people/abstained B) They didn't vote at all, meaning they are away, not wanting to post
So what Ace is doing is he is having the people he know for sure posted and voted, to use them, rather than trying an uncertainty of getting people that may be away/inactive to vote. That is why his way is the most reasonable way of doing the votes. If i had anything to guess at, he probably will use a double lynch tomorrow because of the 2 groups, because otherwise you will have 2 even groups (but that could change with the day post) 1) Lets say we do the split. (putting aside all the concerns about where that might leave us) Lets look at the numbers. Chances are, the Death Cult members will be split reasonably evenly amongst the groups, resulting in similar percentages to what we have now. Nothing can be done with this information, but to repeat the process. Resulting in multiple Kangaroo courts each time hoping that we get lucky and a Mafia member is singled out. 2) He sets up the suspects, uses the double lynch and forces us to vote the way he wants us to. Can you not see how much power this will give him? It doesn't matter if they split evenly, he is forcing the mafia to vote, AND he is making them vote the way he wants them to. Otherwise they could vote for whoever they wish, whether abstain, or voting for someone with little votes to make it look like they are trying to be helpful. The fact that he has that power means he is forcing the mafia to play on his own terms. That puts the mafia at a disadvantage because that means they will be voting for their fellow teammates (as shown with Mandolar). He sets up the suspects, yes, he does, it gives him a lot of power, but I see no reason as to not trust him as of yet. No detectives have spoken up yet, I've talked to him in PMs a couple times, and he seems no threat to me at all as a townie. Therefore, until he pulls some stunt that warrants enough suspicion, I have no problem with him using such power to have the town move forward in lynching mafia. Also, even if I did have a problem with it, there would be nothing I could do since the vast majority of the town trusts Ace, and will follow him. Well done for once again, missing my point entirely. Also good job on skimming over the bits of my original post you didn't care to argue with. Yes criminals had to vote against Mandolar. He was dead anyway, and the mafia would not have swayed the vote in any case. ---------- I realise Ace is highly trustworthy. I realise most of the town will follow him whatever he decides to do. What does that matter though? Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. Highly trustworthy does not mean is can't be a demon in disguise. Highly trustworthy DOES NOT mean that townies should defer ALL power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently. I did read your entire post, and my post was relevant to point 1, and 2. If the vote is split evenly, then mafia are going to be found whether it was cross checked or not. Working with smaller numbers is easier (as noted in the previous post). Also, while criminals voted against Mandolar, it wasn't because they wanted to, they had to vote or be cast in suspicion. What if that group of 58 was all townies? The mafia wouldn't of swayed the vote, but they voted anyway to keep us guessing as long as possible. Well now Ace is continuing to force them to vote, otherwise they will be exposed even faster. Highly trustworthy does not mean he is incapable of making mistakes. - I never said he was infallible, I am just saying that he knows more guaranteed townies than I do, therefore he has more information than i do. Highly trustworthy does no mean he can't be a demon in disguise. - This has been proven wrong, time and time again. While it is a possibility, I highly doubt that no detectives (definitely by night 2, would have been working for him (we have had 2 for the lists of day 1 lynchings)) would have not spoken up saying he was mafia. Also, if he was mafia, why would he deliberately tell us where 11 mafia were? That doesn't sound logical Highly trustworthy does not mean that townies should defer all power to him, as we are in danger of doing currently. - While I agree with this to a certain degree, I don't defer all my power to him, I could abstain tomorrow, Ace knows my role, and it would not change the findings on the detective checks tomorrow. However, a normal townie should have nothing to fear by voting by his word, because he has done nothing to prove that he is mafia (because of the detectives). Those 3 statements you made may make sense to you, but to me, 1 is telling me that Ace is human, and not perfect, and the other 2 have been proven wrong, and proven not to be hazardous yet, so I don't see anything wrong with his plan. I see i'm going to have to stick with this.
Nice job continuing to argue against my argument without reading the majority of it. I'm especially annoyed you argue against my point that Ace could be a Minion of Baal without realising that i've already addressed that point.
Likewise with my point about deferring power. I've addressed this, by voting the way Ace wants us to we defer ALL the power (as townies) that we have (to vote). If we don't obey, the system breaks down, if somebody goes inactive for a day, the system breaks down.
Following Ace's current plan is giving absolute power to him for indefinite amount of time.
I'm not suggesting voting for the person Ace puts forward (like last time). Again, read what I said so I don't have to keep reposting it.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:19 Alventenie wrote:From this post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:49 Alethios wrote: Whats more, why bother posting rough numbers? You ARE on a computer you know. You COULD calculate these things properly easily.
By saying that the 1/7 group is the worse list really shows how little thought you've put into this.
Just because there is a slightly higher percentage of Assassins in the larger list, doesn't mean it's somehow easier to get at them. They are hidden amongst the masses, requiring a huge amount of effort to get at. At least with the 1/7 group, a single repeater will put the Assassin in a new list with, at worst, a 25% Assassin percentage.
Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace? Please drop this plan. Cross referencing lists will be far more effective at singling out Undead. At the bottom, "Can't you see i'm talking sense Ace?" Ace hasn't responded to you since last page, you have been talking with me the entire page. I kindly direct you to where I said:
On March 26 2008 17:10 Alethios wrote: If I said Ace, I was talking to Ace. I said Ace, it's his plan i'm trying to change, not yours. Thus, Ace: Change your plan. + Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:19 Alventenie wrote:Also from your first post: Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 15:35 Alethios wrote:
That being said, I by and large trust Ace and I have a large dose of respect for many of his ideas... but what has prompted me to speak up is this plan of his for tomorrow's vote.
IT'S RETARDED.
As far as my posts, they were directed at mostly this. All your point from my point of view is about tomorrows votes, not future votes past tomorrow. Therefore, all these extra resources that you say I am saying we should do (I put them out there as something that could happen, because as it is now, that is what Ace's plan is, I don't know if he will continue to use that as his plan or not). Therefore a majority of your counter points (or first points according to you) are from what I am saying about days past tomorrow. Don't think like that, I am posting because you say this plan is retarded for tomorrow's votes, not day 4, or 5, or 6, but day 3. So until you get over the fact that I am talking about tomorrow, I am going to ask you to stop having negativity towards me about future days. Ace could have a different plan for then, I don't know, all I know is what the plan is tomorrow. Can't you see that Ace's plan requires a sustained commitment? If the chase is given up tomorrow, we've achieved nothing... at great cost. Thus, I think it was fair to pitch my later arguments at a sustained enforced voting plan.
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On March 26 2008 17:24 Alventenie wrote: I know you are not suggesting we vote for the person Ace puts forward tomorrow, you are against it. I've been posting this entire last page about how we should follow Ace's plan, not against it (like you have). If I was against his plan I wouldn't even of bothered posting, however as you said, if people don't follow the plan, it will break down, to an extent. If mafia don't follow the voting plan, then we find ourselves lots of townies, if townies don't follow it, we find some townies, but gain little ground finding mafia.
And for the last thing I have to say (its 4:30 am, I am kind of tired), I have addressed your points in your argument, you just seem that what I am saying doesn't apply to them. If you wanted me to break your post down sentence by sentence I could, but I was answering generally to the points that you seemed to advocate. I've suggested right from the beginning that if Ace gives us another Mandalor, we should go for it. What i've been arguing against is the enforced voting, where we vote for X or Y or else.
On March 26 2008 17:22 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:18 Alethios wrote:
Put simply... 1/7 Guilty in the first lot (this is your better sample) is still only 14.3% mafia. Compare this to the total murderers in the game, over the total players. 22/130 = 16.9% mafia
Then you have your 10/58 Guilty in the second lot.... Which is slightly more at 10/58 = 17.2% but still not far from the mean. Furthermore, much more effort is required to separate out these mafia than in the first lot.
Seriously... I don't buy your "math isn't adding up" for a second. I realise that (assuming you ARE town) you have to maintain the trust of the town, but persisting with this stupid scheme isn't helping in the slightest. You're still wrong, Out of those 7 people you think I don't know that some of them are 100% innocent? At this point if you don't realize I'm innocent I cant but help in thinking you're either purposely trying to mislead the town or just plain old haven't been reading the thread. The list of 7 people I think is wrong, but go ahead if you wish. It'll still take a number of turns (and detectives) in any case, resources that might be put to better use. I'll warn you now though, your seemingly sturdy plans will fall down as soon as people start missing votes, or dissenting.
On March 26 2008 17:22 Ace wrote: At this point if you don't realize I'm innocent I cant but help in thinking you're either purposely trying to mislead the town or just plain old haven't been reading the thread. Where is the fabled Ace of old? Is this the best you can come up with? Not even an attempt to counter my logic? For shame.
EDIT: Screwed up my quotes, leaving this unedited long enough for Ace to have a good look though.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2008 17:45 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 17:34 Alethios wrote:
I've suggested right from the beginning that if Ace gives us another Mandalor, we should go for it. What i've been arguing against is the enforced voting, where we vote for X or Y or else.
The entire point of the enforced voting to those who can see it is not only to find a Mafia but to find out which townies are 100% innocent. This way after tomorrows votes I possibly won't ever even have to do enforced voting. I'll have enough information on 11 possible mafia targets in no time just by the very fact that I'll know who's innocent + the innocents I know now. Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 16:18 Alethios wrote:
The list of 7 people I think is wrong, but go ahead if you wish. It'll still take a number of turns (and detectives) in any case, resources that might be put to better use. I'll warn you now though, your seemingly sturdy plans will fall down as soon as people start missing votes, or dissenting.
It will take 1 turn, and thats only if one of them dont die. The list will be split 4/3. 1 Mafia among them. I already know some of those guy's roles. Once I find out which side the Mafia is on it's going to be at worst 1/4 or 25% chance of finding him without applying prior knowledge. The other half of that list is automatically innocent. How are you figuring it will take us more than 1 turn? 1 detective - 1 turn. Thats it. If people miss votes when they've had WAY more than enough time so be it. It's the burden on the Mafia. If they leave the group and no other townies does then we have our suspect. If he leaves and only 1 or 2 townies do also, BAM we still have our suspect. Where is the failure part of this plan? If all 7 of them vote differently even though some of those people already PM'd me saying they would vote the same to prove their innocence? You're arguments isn't adding up because any innocent townie that would do what's best for the town would see how this works out. Show nested quote +
Where is the fabled Ace of old? Is this the best you can come up with? Not even an attempt to counter my logic? For shame. .
Counter what logic? Anyone playing this game that read the plan knows I'm innocent right now. It's impossible for me to be Mafia. Just because you cooked up some fabled scenario for some reason to confuse the town doesn't mean the rest of us are going to buy it. That post was the silliest set of logic leaps I've seen and it clearly shows you are up to something. *sigh*..... Seriously.... You could have just brushed this all off but instead you go and pull this.
Defending the actions i've already conceeded... Denying there is any possibility you are Mafia. Not addressing any other points. Dude wtf?
As i've said, I don't believe you are mafia... but you COULD be.
->All it takes is for you to be a regular cultist. Detectives look at you, return nothing and thus don't speak out. ->The general town hears no outcry from anybody, and thus we go about "knowing" you are innocent. ->You kill off a teammate and the trust the town has for you is complete.
Again, I trust you. But I stick by my position. The person saying "Whoa, hold back just a bit ok?"
This doesn't affect your ability to kill mafia, so I don't know why you are bitching about it.
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On March 26 2008 17:57 Ace wrote: a regular cultist? wtf are you talking about.
Minion of Death, Shallow[bay]'s position in Game 1. Allow me to continue to have this bit of fun with synonyms.
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On March 26 2008 18:02 Ace wrote: sigh, ok.
Keep talking whatever nonsense keeps you happy. We'll ask you to go forward with the plan tomorrow, and whether or not your with us we'll do what we can. You haven't spoken against the DT flaw. You haven't spoken about why the 58 person split will work. You haven't spoken about why you will not concede a small fail safe (even though it won't hurt you per-se) You haven't told us why Cross Referencing, at least on the 58 person vote, will not work.
Why do you continue with this shrugging off? You only destabilise your position ever so slightly. Since your town (right), why don't you correct this?
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On March 26 2008 18:13 Ace wrote: I just answered that in the previous post.
There is no DT flaw as there are no Godfather roles. Which means the DT answers to someone's role always is 100% correct. Where's the flaw?
There is no way that all 4 DTs are inactive with me knowing Mandalor was Mafia + getting a vote count.
That takes care of your DT flaw.
What do you mean work? The 58 person split is not only to find Mafia, but to find out who's innocent. I don't know how many times we have to tell you this but you keep beating it into your head that there's some magical flaw.
I'm not Cross Referencing anything.
But above all else, I have at least 3 times as much information as YOU do. So obviously I know exactly why this plan works in ways you could never even fathom.
Don't tell me you really think I accused wurm by accident?
The Mafia isn't the only one playing mind games this time around. Urgh. Again.
I assume you are talking about this DT-non-flaw?
->You have the ability to ask me whether or not a specific clue points to a specific person and get a yes/no answer. ->You have the ability to, twice a game, ask me what role a specific person has.
Suppose you are regular mafia. What will a DT get when he asks chuiu what role you have? "Ace has no special role"
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Right, so after tomorrows vote you get:
4/20 Mafia in one list (With 10 people changing or abstaining) 5/29 Mafia in the other list.
What new information do you get from that? NONE.
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You aren't considering doing a separate independent vote, counting for mafia, then comparing lists... why?
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I don't see why you think you can bring in talk about wurm and how YOU are the one playing mind games this time! Expecting me to go "oh yes, you are very clever aren't you" Not relevant, sorry.
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On March 26 2008 18:27 Scorch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2008 17:56 Alethios wrote: As i've said, I don't believe you are mafia... but you COULD be.
->All it takes is for you to be a regular cultist. Detectives look at you, return nothing and thus don't speak out. i don't believe it works that way. i definitely think asking Chuiu about a vanilla mafia's role would yield "plain mafia", not "no special role". what would be the point of the ability otherwise? i think Chuiu would have warned us after the detective plan was presented if the detective ability worked this way. See this is just me, but unless somebody asks Chuiu a question... I haven't seen him answer any.
If we get an answer from Chuiu about this, saying that the question would yield "plain mafia", I will of course withdraw any and all comments regarding Ace's allegiance.
That being said, I'm still convinced there are more efficient methods for tomorrows vote.
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Assuming that we are still theoretically unsure about your allegiance, the most logical course for the town to take would be to vote as normal. Opening up the ability to cross reference while not giving you absolute power.
Assuming we DO know you are town, then your course of action... as you say... is likely the best. We can assume you have much more information than us and thus probably know what you are doing when manipulating the vote.
No doubt, we'll have received an answer before tomorrow... so it won't make much difference.
Assuming the question goes your way, I'm glad to see you stand up under close scrutiny. If not, you've dug yourself a deep enough hole now that I am satisfied either way.
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On March 26 2008 18:50 Pangolin wrote: You'd have to be pretty paranoid not to trust Ace at this point. I said right from the outset that I trusted Ace. Just spotted a potential flaw that hadn't been addressed yet. Enjoyed the argument too :D
Things are looking really up for the town at the moment, and what is the pillar of that? Ace. Thought I'd better make sure he was working for the side we all think he is.
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Right well, I suppose I'd better make some statement.
I felt compelled to test Ace, as this was something nobody seemed interested in doing. It was highly unlikely he was Mafia, but you can't tell me a test wasn't at least constructive. Likely to, no matter the outcome, strengthen the town.
I realised from the beginning that the "flaw" almost certainly didn't exist, but thought it would be a good way to test Ace, and to perfect his plan.
If any doubt was remaining in anybody's mind regarding Ace's allegiance, it should now be dispelled. He reacted calmly, even as my attacks got more and more "Red Flag Waving", trying to entice some mistake from him.
Secondly, I wasn't convinced Ace's plan of action was the best. I'm sure others felt the same. Attacking a plan in a debate is not a bad thing. The process, in general, strengthens the plan. Either because the plan takes on new, more efficient aspects, or simply because more people are willing to follow it.
I'm disappointed by the reaction to the debate last night.
On March 26 2008 20:24 Showtime! wrote: First of all, I don't have to post shit in response to your retardness because why would I plant anything in the mafia's head? Do you think I'm stupid? Get your head out of your ass. You really couldn't buy a clue. :. you must be mafia. You have no idea of who my suspects are dumbass. Do you honestly think I would post my elaborate plan for the public? I don't think so. I'm glad you're going to be gone soon.
Naaaa, naaaa, na, naaaa, naaaa, naaaa, heeeeey, heeeeey, heeeeey goooood-bye! Showtime! waited until after i'd left to hurl insults at me, obviously not willing to take me on directly. "Do you think I'm stupid?" Yes, either that or your a very good actor.
On March 26 2008 19:49 Plexa wrote:*sigh* while you make some valid points Alethios you continually resort to claiming the moral high ground in all the arguments while not developing your own. TBH some of your points are really weak.. its a shame you are a fellow kiwi Anyway, Ace's plans will obviously work. As far as i can tell is that this plan isn't to identify all mafia 100% in the first go, its to build a better picture of the towns make up and change various probabilities when calculating risk. This is justification enough for me to go along with his plan.
Plexa accuses me of arguing by simply claiming the moral high ground and not advancing points. I ask you Plexa, given Alventenie was arguing points i'd already covered, can you really blame me?
What is wrong with examining the plans that will obviously work? Are you saying that you knew right from when he suggested it that it couldn't possibly be any better?
A shame i'm a fellow Kiwi? I don't really know what to say to that. "Likewise" perhaps?
On March 27 2008 00:16 Kau wrote: Man Alethios.. If you understood the detective ability you could've saved us all 3 pages of junk. Kau, it wasn't junk. It was a debate which, I feel, progressed the town forward. Perhaps if you actually had something thoughtful or constructive to put forward, you could have saved us a line of junk.
On March 27 2008 01:42 ~OpZ~ wrote: Kiwi?
;-; I feel confused....
Also...Seriously....Looking at Ace's plan and saying it's retarded or saying he's not confirmed...Ask Chuiu if Mafia's roles get told when you ask about someones role, and you tell us what he says. Then ask yourself:
Do you feel lucky? A Kiwi is slang for a New Zealander.
Again with the same statement, copyed and pasted from the last guy. Urgh.
On March 27 2008 09:44 ~OpZ~ wrote: Ow....
Oh...So guess what Alethios....Chuiu just proved your theory entirely false...Seeing as Mafia is considered a role...Just as TOWNIE is considered a role....
So I'd assume you are now a suspect.
Atleast...yea... Same point as before, but this time my entire theory is false. Perhaps you could point me to the post where Chuiu called upon his skills as an Engineering Science Professor and hauled out the various statistics required to prove my testing plan was inferior. Does it even matter if it was? Each idea needs to be tested against another in order to refine it.
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Sorry about the length. Interesting day ahead of us.
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On March 28 2008 01:46 Ace wrote: LucasWoj said he protected showtime who got hit
No Vigilante put a hit on Showtime, therefore Showtime is Innocent From what you've told us, they could both be Evil Bastards. Lying about being hit isn't too hard, can imagine it would be a pretty clever ploy from both of them to gain our trust. Or am I missing something?
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On March 28 2008 14:05 Showtime! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2008 13:53 Alethios wrote:On March 28 2008 01:46 Ace wrote: LucasWoj said he protected showtime who got hit
No Vigilante put a hit on Showtime, therefore Showtime is Innocent From what you've told us, they could both be Evil Bastards. Lying about being hit isn't too hard, can imagine it would be a pretty clever ploy from both of them to gain our trust. Or am I missing something? i just had to point this out again. my God, how do you sleep at night? Laying it on a bit thick don't you think?
You know, I wasn't even inferring anything about your character when you said that. My apologies if you were offended by the term I used, trying to keep coming up with new euphemisms for shits and giggles.
I was saying it's POSSIBLE that both LucasWoj and yourself are both Mafia, and it is. You know it, I know it, Ace knows it. So keep your personal attacks to yourself, and try to come up with something constructive for once.
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It's been that kind of day
Thanks Tuna. Sorry showtime.
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Obviously last night's conversation didn't faze you wurm. Ace is not a suspect. He's not infallible, but it's a virtual certainty he's working for us.
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