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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 10 2023 21:55 Trfel wrote:Mostly just this: Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 21:13 Vivax wrote:Hello. On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. We have Trfel and Slam entering the thread rather casually in my opinion. This approach by Sandro sticks out as overthinking and doesn't really seem like he's attempting to form some kind of real contact with them. I don't like the phrasing in parts either (bolded). 'Posting within what I expected' comes out of the blue as you should be expectation-free if you don't know his alignment. 'Self-demeaning tone' is something I don't spot, where is the part of his filter that suggests that? On December 10 2023 13:23 sandroba wrote:
I remember him being a bit wacky, careless, and somewhat random. Always found him hard to access in terms of alignment, but mostly remember he goes into more self-preservation mode and tones it down when mafia. Not sure how much that still applies, but I found his initial posts care-free, with a bit of prodding which I kinda liked, but done in a lighthearted way which could just again be his care-free nature This is a piece of pseudo-information as it doesn't really help in reaching a conclusion on Slam either. Sandroba, are these posts your legitimate opinion or did you write them mostly with the intent of creating a discussion surrounding Trfels and Slams alignments? That last question to sandroba. If he just says, "I wrote it just to create a discussion about Trfel's and Alakaslam's alignments" then what have you gained from this whole post? I guess I'm confused, if that is an acceptable answer, then why give it to him as an option, like it invalidates the whole purpose of asking the question, no?
This is a decent follow up to Trfel’s earlier post where he said “on the off chance Vivax” though.
He thought he spotted something and mentioned it while being asked about reads, and this follow up is logical. A few town points perhaps
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On December 13 2023 19:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote:DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 11:07 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:54 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:44 Vivax wrote:
I'm not sure that Palmar's is a genuine effort to read me over some egotistical push. I think you are failing your own town litmus test. Where you are usually more engaged as town. Should have done enough to display my current thoughts. I'm hoping for wagons and vote accordingly. You haven't though. I can tell you who isn't in the clear for me: And that's a majority but I can't do much about it with my current degree of certainty. You, marv, dmb, Chez, Palmar, HF. Sandro, Trfel. I'm wondering if I should bury my sandro + Trfel approach and just assume it's two townies starting the game off like that. ##Unvote Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba(Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else) So In your world, mafia DMB rolled the dice and tied up the votes, where another vote kills sandro, who you think is mafia? I don’t understand why DMB chooses d1 lynch time to be most active if she is mafia, it’s just asking for trouble
Well. If Sandroba is not mafia. DMB prefers to lynch Vivax.
I think that is an important fact.
If Sandroba is mafia. We will have to consider how pressured she felt to switch as mafia with him. Praying nobody else woke up.
Not switching would have looked 100% damning because she was moving away from mafia Vivax for a while. At least 3 posts in 1h30 before the switch.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 11 2023 06:45 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 06:40 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 06:35 Trfel wrote:
I think at this point I'd be okay with lynching Koshi (if he is going to play like this), and potentially okay with lynching DarthPunk. Sandroba's recent set of posts were more interesting to me, I didn't necessarily agree with everything he was saying but it helps me to put together his mindset/approach. Holyflare's point that he's focusing on defending himself from presumed incorrect accusations instead of actually finding mafia or being productive is strong, now that he's actually shared suspicions I look forward to him coming back tomorrow. Vivax I could definitely see being mafia but I don't think I want to lynch him as much as Koshi or DarthPunk at this point. Wait wtF?!? I am your second biggest lynch candidate because: 1.) I stopped posting for 6 hours in the middle of the night and 2.) for saying pretty much exactly what you are saying about sandroba's recent posts??? That doesn't make any fucking sense. Are you for real right now? ##vote: Trfel I don't want to lynch you for what you said about sandroba's posts. Why are you quoting things that aren't my reasoning and calling it my reasoning? And it's not that you stopped posting during the night, it's the way you left with seemingly no direction and how content you felt to do so. Yes, it can be explained (to some extent) by being asleep, but the timing seems rather suspect as well due to making a push, backing off when it seems clear to not be working, and then leaving since you've "done something" already.
Honestly Trfel, this is the 3rd time I counted that you have brought up DP being afk while asleep.
I don’t understand why you’re expecting him to completely flesh out a new view on the game after he has unvoted you, less than 24h into the game?
Can you explain?
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I just know that DMB should be very low on everybodies list and she isnt. We also know she can be pretty WTF as townie and she isnt here.
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On December 13 2023 20:16 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 19:49 marvellosity wrote:On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote:DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 11:07 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:54 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:44 Vivax wrote:
I'm not sure that Palmar's is a genuine effort to read me over some egotistical push. I think you are failing your own town litmus test. Where you are usually more engaged as town. Should have done enough to display my current thoughts. I'm hoping for wagons and vote accordingly. You haven't though. I can tell you who isn't in the clear for me: And that's a majority but I can't do much about it with my current degree of certainty. You, marv, dmb, Chez, Palmar, HF. Sandro, Trfel. I'm wondering if I should bury my sandro + Trfel approach and just assume it's two townies starting the game off like that. ##Unvote Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba(Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else) So In your world, mafia DMB rolled the dice and tied up the votes, where another vote kills sandro, who you think is mafia? I don’t understand why DMB chooses d1 lynch time to be most active if she is mafia, it’s just asking for trouble Well. If Sandroba is not mafia. DMB prefers to lynch Vivax. I think that is an important fact. If Sandroba is mafia. We will have to consider how pressured she felt to switch as mafia with him. Praying nobody else woke up. Not switching would have looked 100% damning because she was moving away from mafia Vivax for a while. At least 3 posts in 1h30 before the switch.
But then why choose to be active around a lynch when mafiaxDMB knows that Vivax is town and Is therefore liable to start shitting towniness?
She chooses to be in the the thread while a town-Vivax has already started to post prolifically.
Seems like a crazy gamble?
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On December 12 2023 05:39 Trfel wrote:
Hey Vivax, I'm around. I get that you're voting for sandroba but I don't see you being that committed to the push. To be fair I've been busy today so I skimmed the past few pages.
Can you summarize why I/we should be lynching sandroba (or whoever you want, really)? If you want to quote previous posts that explain it that's fine, I just can't really look on my own for a little.
Really disappointing that Trfel posted this then afked.
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On December 13 2023 20:21 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 20:16 Koshi wrote:On December 13 2023 19:49 marvellosity wrote:On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote:DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 11:07 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:54 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:44 Vivax wrote:
I'm not sure that Palmar's is a genuine effort to read me over some egotistical push. I think you are failing your own town litmus test. Where you are usually more engaged as town. Should have done enough to display my current thoughts. I'm hoping for wagons and vote accordingly. You haven't though. I can tell you who isn't in the clear for me: And that's a majority but I can't do much about it with my current degree of certainty. You, marv, dmb, Chez, Palmar, HF. Sandro, Trfel. I'm wondering if I should bury my sandro + Trfel approach and just assume it's two townies starting the game off like that. ##Unvote Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba(Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else) So In your world, mafia DMB rolled the dice and tied up the votes, where another vote kills sandro, who you think is mafia? I don’t understand why DMB chooses d1 lynch time to be most active if she is mafia, it’s just asking for trouble Well. If Sandroba is not mafia. DMB prefers to lynch Vivax. I think that is an important fact. If Sandroba is mafia. We will have to consider how pressured she felt to switch as mafia with him. Praying nobody else woke up. Not switching would have looked 100% damning because she was moving away from mafia Vivax for a while. At least 3 posts in 1h30 before the switch. But then why choose to be active around a lynch when mafiaxDMB knows that Vivax is town and Is therefore liable to start shitting towniness? She chooses to be in the the thread while a town-Vivax has already started to post prolifically. Seems like a crazy gamble?
She lives with Vivax and Vivax was online? Kinda sus if she is not posting anything while Vivax is fighting for his life.
Maybe shitty reason but your reasoning is pretty meh as well.
Like she has 20-30ish posts or so at that moment. There must be a time she actually plays. Maybe she decided there.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
oh I didn't know any of this lol
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Tfrel Sandroba and DMB.
I think that is a fair team.
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We kill sandro today. I am also thinking
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't
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On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote:DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 11:07 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:54 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:44 Vivax wrote:
I'm not sure that Palmar's is a genuine effort to read me over some egotistical push. I think you are failing your own town litmus test. Where you are usually more engaged as town. Should have done enough to display my current thoughts. I'm hoping for wagons and vote accordingly. You haven't though. I can tell you who isn't in the clear for me: And that's a majority but I can't do much about it with my current degree of certainty. You, marv, dmb, Chez, Palmar, HF. Sandro, Trfel. I'm wondering if I should bury my sandro + Trfel approach and just assume it's two townies starting the game off like that. ##Unvote Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba(Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else)
Vivax was excited to play again and special because of Palmar. I will not try to lynch my happy amore when Sandro and Palmar lookd suspicious as well in my eyes.
Before the game started V said to me when Palmar is Mafia, Town is fucked. Why should I be suspicious about Palmar when I already know he is one of the strongest player here. Newbie Mafia vs Palmar would be the stupiest thing what a mafia me could do.
Also as I never played as mafia a game am already bored as Town and because of work and this why I may was not around or activ as you used to see me in a game here.
I voted on Vivax because I felt that this was scum. He is most likly a troll poster when he is red. I thought he makes here troll wagons and just look on his filter page 1-5 this looks all just scummy. I think I don´t have to quote any post from him because, if you see this as Town you are scum. But at the point the lnych comes near and he was working, I could see the stress full posts not trying to get lynched at work, but in a Townie way. Also i was with Dp the first who changed vote and tried to change the lynch. When I am rolling Town every fucking game then I want to win as Town.
I have to go to work now. I will try to post more, and i will post a Town/Mafia List after work
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On December 13 2023 17:30 Koshi wrote:DMB is mafia. 1) She is flying under the radar. 2) I think she voted Vivax because he is a threat to her. And because Vivax posted a good list. Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 11:16 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 11:07 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:56 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:54 Vivax wrote:On December 11 2023 10:50 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:44 Vivax wrote:
I'm not sure that Palmar's is a genuine effort to read me over some egotistical push. I think you are failing your own town litmus test. Where you are usually more engaged as town. Should have done enough to display my current thoughts. I'm hoping for wagons and vote accordingly. You haven't though. I can tell you who isn't in the clear for me: And that's a majority but I can't do much about it with my current degree of certainty. You, marv, dmb, Chez, Palmar, HF. Sandro, Trfel. I'm wondering if I should bury my sandro + Trfel approach and just assume it's two townies starting the game off like that. ##Unvote Okey what kind of wagon are you trying to build here. Like i really really try to see it but now you making my opinion on you even worse #vote vivax 3) Last one to move from Vivax to Sandroba. Even though she was moving with thread sentiment to a more Vivax is not mafia 30 mins prior. 4) Dont think she made 1 good post so far. Very bad of Palmar to make her so townie after that 1 "independent research" Vivax vote. Because really... That isn't that good at all. Anyway. Start putting her in your PoE people. ##Vote Sandroba(Last game I was mafai and I made a case on somebody and voted somebody else)
Koshi, what made you read me town in the first place? What made you think I'm mafia now?
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On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't
This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax?
Because mafia make mistakes.
I've talked a fair bit this game about how I can understand how people are thinking and progressing, that sort of thing.
The fact is, I can't understand these thoughts or progression. It's not townie.
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Also, and it's not really all that relevant, the reason you were talking about Trfel at all there was you asked me to engage.
And I said, okay I will engage, but not about me, you, or Vivax. So you had to talk about someone else.
So you can't defend yourself by saying "i would have just kept talking about vivax"
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On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax?
To erode your reads and keep options open. Please answer my questions wherever they are. Why aren't you adding town reads to your list? Why aren't you seeing who had good reasons to vote vivax or not? Why aren't you second guessing that your koshi read erosion is just due to timezones vs throwing it completely out the window when you already have like 5+ other scum reads?
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On December 13 2023 22:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax? Because mafia make mistakes. I've talked a fair bit this game about how I can understand how people are thinking and progressing, that sort of thing. The fact is, I can't understand these thoughts or progression. It's not townie.
It's townie because I'm town, you either lack imagination or just mafia. It's not like through my posts you can see all my thought processes. I haven't played this game in years, you can't just think I'd have the same confidence in my reads as I did before. Also, I'd like to think I'm not as arrogant as I used to be. Changing my mind and not keeping my story straight was never mafia m.o., I'd pretty much just have a really hard time posting and do as little as possible.
I'd like to think I'm right on Trfel and was right on my initial intuition and got myself convinced he was just bad and overeager as he posted a bunch. I know I felt this way many times before, even when I was good at this game.
Whatever you are probably just mafia, I'm tired of force myself to imagine you could be town.
Your Palmar interactions/relationship is super similar to what you guys were doing in assassination mafia, not sure if only one of you is mafia or both
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Not sure I understand why you're tripling down on calling marv mafia when he's going through your filter multiple times, trying to come up with arguments and engage with you and even then still giving the benefit of the doubt for other people to interject and correct him. Is that mafia M.O.?
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On December 13 2023 22:45 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2023 22:38 sandroba wrote:On December 13 2023 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
So I've gone back and re-read sandro, specifically looking for what he has said about Trfel. This is the progression.
1. He is "98% sure" that the DP & Trfel fight is TvT.
2. Trfel is trying to figure out the game, and his post casting suspicion on Vivax is "spot on".
3. Trfel he had been "leaning town" on "but this post really set off some alarms for me" - this is the Trfel vote post on Vivax.
4. He says to me "I quoted a post [from Trfel] I would 100% expect you to agree on and find suspicious" - the problem is he couldn't elaborate on how this was - he stated the tone felt different from the rest of the filter - which I don't agree with - which is why I asked how he might imagine a town Trfel might have written the post, which he could not answer.
5. He then submissively backs down on this point saying he could be just bad (this feels out of sandro's character)
6. Now he is "conflicted on Trfel"
7. sandro does a big catch-up post on DP, Trfel, me etc. In it he says he agrees with DP that Trfel was "going on the counter offensive" to make his post look a lot worse, and if he knew what type of player Trfel was, he would find it "an ironclad case [on Trfel]"
Basically I don't find any of this natural. While it was happening, he considered DP vs Trfel 98% TvT, but on re-read DP's case on Trfel looks "ironclad"?
I can't see this whole thing coming from a town sandro, I just can't This is stupid, why would I do this as mafia? Why not just keep my town read on Trfel at that point and just focus on Vivax? To erode your reads and keep options open. Please answer my questions wherever they are. Why aren't you adding town reads to your list? Why aren't you seeing who had good reasons to vote vivax or not? Why aren't you second guessing that your koshi read erosion is just due to timezones vs throwing it completely out the window when you already have like 5+ other scum reads?
Screw my town reads, I don't know how good people are at being scum so I'd just go after who I think the most likely scum is now and worry about the rest later.
At this point in the game I know for a fact that no mafia was really forced to make any mistakes due to the lynch yesterday being pretty much set on Vivax for the whole day and the switch attempt was onto a townie. Thus we first need to produce an event that forces some bullshit out so I everyone can get a better grasp on who is town and who is mafia.
The most danming of all is Trfel with his fake post on me, fake interaction with you and fake justification for voting Vivax. That's 3 hits of key moments that I believe he felt unconfortable and came up with some BS post. That's my strongest Mafia read, all my other stuff I perceive as being less accurate.
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EPT
