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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Trfel played brilliantly too, and Slam was great too. rayn really did well looking like he was thinking about the game and being elastic in his thoughts across a lot of the game, wasn’t until later on he really started to show his hand. I think rayn had to find a better way of dealing with the probably inevitable flip of DMB, would have made it closer at the end. | ||
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Alakaslam
United States17324 Posts
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justanothertownie
16316 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Sandroba and Trfel played really well, but honestly, almost all of town did a really good job. Slam played the best town game I've seen from him. The problem town faced is that it was really scattershot early on in the game. And mafia did a decent job of blending in. I've been skimming the obs QT and they seemed determined we were about to lose when we lynched DMB. The problem for mafia was that any lylo was going to be difficult because there were too many quality town players in the game. Sure, a lylo with Sandro and I isn't easy for mafia, but they were always going to face a lylo with good players. If I get lynched over HF and Sandro shot over marv or koshi or something, you still have 2 quality town players in lylo, willing to throw out their preconceived notions and ready to make the right play. It's somewhat interesting that it was really enough to follow the objectively correct plays to lynch mafia. I made the point on DMB that some of her actions need additional explanation to make her town on day 4. Chez' lynch was a really good policy lynch. Maybe some people saw something scummy in him, but I'm not good enough for that really. Although I hard townread Trfel at that time so maybe I should've been suspicious. Rayn, similarly, simply ran out of lynch targets. People really underestimate the ability to persevere in town. To never fall into the trap of tunneling something to the death and instead constantly re-evaluate reads and thoughts. This town ended up with Sandroba and I as allies finishing off the last few mafia (we were together on both dmb and rayn). We had tunneled each other for the first 2 days really. Regarding marv, that was a strange situation. Marv got very angry with Sandroba because he didn't believe scum Sandroba would make the request he did, given us knowing about Marv's shit evening IRL. The problem there, and I know this wasn't Marv's intention, is that I personally also know Marv has enough integrity to not blow up like that as scum Marv. So I immediately thought to myself "well marv just spewed himself town..." and I almost wrote it in the thread. I did notice some people coming to a similar conclusion. The problem is, I was under heavy pressure at the time, and if I make that read, that looks really good and reasonable for me. So instead of town getting maybe 2 townreads (marv, sandroba) out of the whole thing, they start getting even more (me? and then maybe whoever realizes I make that read as town?). So for game integrity's sake I decided to do a pretty scummy thing and call marv null and completely refuse to discuss it. I wanted mafia to have an avenue to attack me for that, because they did lose some initiative on the two people involved (Sandroba, Marv). I lied to town that I thought it could be marv, but if you read my posts I know I'm pretty much treating him as confirmed town. I couldn't really think of a better way to deal with the whole thing that wouldn't give town additional advantage. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
I quoted like 3 good HF posts in the lead up to his lynch, but I think he kinda killed himself when he refused to entertain my idea that maybe he should be trying to kill DMB and not me. This both made me suspect him even more, and of course also took dmb off the table for the lynch. At that point I needed to kill HF to protect myself, more really than I needed him to die for being scum. And once again the deadlines played a part, because HF did eventually late at night show up and vote dmb, but it was too late. I kinda wanted that lynch (I offered both rayn and HF who I talked to day 3 to go after dmb, both refused). But I was nowhere near sure she was mafia there. I wasn't even sure she was on day 4, but at that point I simply went after the objectively correct lynch and it worked. I personally am clearly quite rusty. With great town play we managed to sail a tough victory home with no help from blues and only 2 mislynches, so I'm really happy with that, but I feel like I was never certain enough of people's alignments this game. I can't beat myself up too much, after all I'm part of the team that ended up delivering the victory, but I feel like I should have been more certain that was going to happen. Additionally my day 1 was uncharacteristically bad. | ||
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justanothertownie
16316 Posts
On December 24 2023 20:05 Palmar wrote: A few thoughts on the game. Sandroba and Trfel played really well, but honestly, almost all of town did a really good job. Slam played the best town game I've seen from him. The problem town faced is that it was really scattershot early on in the game. And mafia did a decent job of blending in. I've been skimming the obs QT and they seemed determined we were about to lose when we lynched DMB. Don't lump everyone in there together  The explanation about Marv makes a lot of sense. I would imagine that you understand how he is never mafia after that. Fair play to not put that into the thread though. Wouldn't have changed a lot though I think since he was pretty town without. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
Thank you Grack for hosting!!! | ||
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Vivax
21769 Posts
The Vivax lynch was just an unfortunate timing. His filter really was shit and he didn't do anything about it until way too late in the game. For reference, this is from the shit filter. The first combination on a brief catch up at like 2 or 3 AM after work was this with: On December 12 2023 11:38 Vivax wrote: I think my plausible iterations right now without the heated reads from before would be (excluding Chezinu) Sandro/DMB/rayn Sandro/DP/rayn Trfel/DP/rayn Trfel/DMB/rayn The 'let's go!' vote on Trfel from DP also felt off. If I exclude DMB which is a messy read I'd be somewhere at this I think DP/rayn/sandro DP/rayn/Trfel DP/marv/Rayn In case you were wondering, using past games to fluff up your posts like DP and rayn did lands you in here. The Trfel/Sandro dichotomy is hard and I won't exclude that they could be paired. On December 12 2023 11:52 Vivax wrote: There's very good arguments for both Sandro and Trfel to be scum. But they aren't if you are because of this post :> Basically Palmar is just saying I didn't put in effort and I got lynched from that even though I had my head absolutely in the right place when I wasn't shitposting. Sometimes, facts do exist in this game. Others, it's just Palmar's opinion. 2 blues, 2 mafia, and Sandro + Trfel who were the majority's picks. More than decent. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Good effort DMB and sorry from my part not being more active. Also unfortunate that Chezinu had the expo and coupdn't play properly.  Neverheless you voth did a good job against probably the most stacked team ever, esp DMB, well played!! Merry Christmas everyone, see you next year <3  | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 24 2023 20:05 Palmar wrote: Regarding marv, that was a strange situation. Marv got very angry with Sandroba because he didn't believe scum Sandroba would make the request he did, given us knowing about Marv's shit evening IRL. The problem there, and I know this wasn't Marv's intention, is that I personally also know Marv has enough integrity to not blow up like that as scum Marv. So I immediately thought to myself "well marv just spewed himself town..." and I almost wrote it in the thread. I did notice some people coming to a similar conclusion. The problem is, I was under heavy pressure at the time, and if I make that read, that looks really good and reasonable for me. So instead of town getting maybe 2 townreads (marv, sandroba) out of the whole thing, they start getting even more (me? and then maybe whoever realizes I make that read as town?). So for game integrity's sake I decided to do a pretty scummy thing and call marv null and completely refuse to discuss it. I wanted mafia to have an avenue to attack me for that, because they did lose some initiative on the two people involved (Sandroba, Marv). I lied to town that I thought it could be marv, but if you read my posts I know I'm pretty much treating him as confirmed town. I couldn't really think of a better way to deal with the whole thing that wouldn't give town additional advantage. Yeah this is exactly what I thought was the case, and sorry for putting you and anyone else in that position. The irony being, of course, that I knew this is what you were doing so it spewed you town to me as well. No real difference as you were 99.9% town to me in any case. I would say the main reason mafia lost traction on sand and I at that point was the fact I came off sand on to Chez, which just flipped everything around and put mafia in a really difficult spot. Which admittedly we squandered a little with the Hf lynch. | ||
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Vivax
21769 Posts
On December 24 2023 21:44 Koshi wrote: If only we could have traded places Vivax. I have no idea what you are talking about but I know that if you don't become antisocial at least tendentially in this society, you are not unlikely to be part of the problem and this game is a good example of that. How to prove democracy sucks in one game. Doesn't matter how much you stroke each other's egos if the outcome is that you gang up on minorities when it suits you. Peak hypocrisy. Sorry that I don't like to pretend to be nice to everyone and in a good mood constantly. Scandalous that I don't like to be forced to lie. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On December 24 2023 12:10 iamperfection wrote: i give rayn credit for giving it a sporting chance at the end there. Probably should have just bussed DMB or maybe bussed each other? Probably yes, that's definitely one thing i made a mistake on. Ironically if i was town i would have most likely done exactly what i did during that day and still lost, just as town. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 24 2023 22:08 Vivax wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about but I know that if you don't become antisocial at least tendentially in this society, you are not unlikely to be part of the problem and this game is a good example of that. How to prove democracy sucks in one game. Doesn't matter how much you stroke each other's egos if the outcome is that you gang up on minorities when it suits you. Peak hypocrisy. Sorry that I don't like to pretend to be nice to everyone and in a good mood constantly. Scandalous that I don't like to be forced to lie. Probably don't wait until aftet everyone has gone to bed to start playing like not a maniac next time. | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On December 24 2023 22:35 Holyflare wrote: Probably don't wait until aftet everyone has gone to bed to start playing like not a maniac next time. Yeah, i think people wait for too long to "actually play" especially during D1. When the game is over half euro, and the deadline is like 4-6am, this is bound to happen if you wait until the last minute to play. | ||
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Vivax
21769 Posts
On December 24 2023 22:35 Holyflare wrote: Probably don't wait until aftet everyone has gone to bed to start playing like not a maniac next time. 'they probably should dress in other ways then pspspsps' | ||
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