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On December 17 2023 00:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 23:19 Palmar wrote: Compare that to koshi who in far less posts made much more (to me) impactful contributions. I also honestly dont believe this. I guess i should read his filter more closely a he is dead, but still. I felt his reads were clear and sensible pretty much the entire game.
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On December 16 2023 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 23:33 Palmar wrote: Rayn, I’m not going to read your entire filter because I don’t hate myself. But I did open it and read from the bottom up. I can’t remember if this is something you normally do but you’re spending almost no effort on forming town reads. The best I could find was like “maybe marv is just town” and something like that.
Like have you at any point in this game tried to argue that someone is town? Do youthink that's something that makes me mafia? I mean like its probably the easiest thing to do as mafia, call townies town for correct reasons. I also heavily abuse that fact as mafia. I dont care if you do associative reads or not. I find it suspicious that the people who i sm literally the least likely to be mafia with ate the ones you geoup with me being mafia with snd just sit on that. Also i disagree that i had no influence on the game. Its true i have not been as active as usual. But i was a key factor to almost change the lynch from Vivax to sandroba D1, and i also believe i was one of the key votes to lynch Chezinu.
In order cause phoneposting.
Not necessarily but it’s different from what I do. I said I can’t remember if it’s normal for you.
Again, I don’t think this way. Maybe I’m wrong on something. Maybe mafia is playing lone wolf. I just don’t care at all who is likely to be mafia with who. It has no impact on how I think about any game.
You HAVE been active. You have one of the longest filters in the game. You just haven’t been influential.
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As town I generally hand out town read all the time to simplify the game.
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Like you point to some votes you places. But whose else vote did you place? Who did you convince of something? Can you point to a single instance where someone did something (make a town read or scum read or cast a vote or rescind a vote or something) because of you convinced them to do it?
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Man this Pálmar guy is playing incredibly towny today. Very impressive.
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On December 16 2023 17:20 marvellosity wrote: Maybe DMB is so angry recently at least because people suggest she might be mafia.
But I don’t remember that anger when she has been suspected as town previously
No i got a bit angry because thinking of me and palmar together doesn´t make any sense. I suspect Palmar since the D1 or at least got more suspect of him after d1 lynch and then people coming up with me and him togther make no sense. Also slam making post and not explaing to me what it means even tough he were around made me a bit more angry. Sorry to get emotional when i don´t understand how people thought i be scum with him. Suspect me ..yes no problem... have fun with the next miss lynch but with him? really? How? Why?
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So I did a thing and read a bunch of Trfel
His filter is actually pretty good and I’m completely taking him off the table for today’s lynch.
Problem is he’s probably the scariest mafia player here. But that’s tinfoil territory.
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Rayn I need you to do two things
a) I have assigned you a townread on me. I need you now to explain why you think I’m town
b) you can pick one of of Sandroba/hf and explain to me why they’re mafia.
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On December 16 2023 13:19 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 16:36 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 11:26 die_meatbaby wrote:On December 11 2023 10:35 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 10:33 DarthPunk wrote:On December 11 2023 10:30 Palmar wrote: Jesus it’s so bad. Pointless commentary, terrible questions. Lots of nothing and very boring to boot. I didn’t laugh once.
We found our first mafia boys. Get in while it’s still cool You are not wrong, but I think it's not outside of the scope of his town play. I’m never wrong. Let’s do the vote thing. Just to make this clear my decision to vote for Vivax is based on my own analysis and not because your ego convinced me to vote who ever you think is scum. And yes your filter looks good but you still not town for me and I will read and analysis every post you will make until you lose a bit of this self believing god player stuff here. This is such a town post lol. Reading Palmar's filter I came across this post which had caught my attention previously. I talked about this post with marv, the " And yes your filter looks good but" part which I thought was out of character for someone who is pissed off at Palmar. Palmar filter at that point was 1 page with some trolling commentary. @DMB can you explain why you thought Palmar's filter looked good at this point in the game?
Because at that point it just looked Townisch, no scummy posts, no risky posts where people could get suspect of him. It was to clean and comparing to his older scumplays it just looked extactly the same. As Townie you try to figure out who is scum and this posts often seems scummy but not his Filter just to clean to be Town at that point of the game
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Now I need to go find out why Sandroba thinks Trfel is mafia because I liked most of Trfel's filter.
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On December 17 2023 02:18 Palmar wrote: Now I need to go find out why Sandroba thinks Trfel is mafia because I liked most of Trfel's filter.
Chez voting on Trfel so we don't think he is his scumbuddy make a bit sense to me.
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raynpelikoneet
+ Show Spoiler [analysis] +On December 11 2023 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 03:51 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:41 Vivax wrote: Palmar a bit too sure of himself in tone for my liking. Like he's got somebody lined up to be gifted a pair of shiny concrete boots, maybe a weak teammate under threat (which could be sandro).
He's very conscious of the Trfel/Sandro dichotomy here but not as motivated to deliver much explanation of his own as he is to appear motivated to lynch into it. I believe this is the post in question. Raynpelikoneet, other than the above question though, can you help me understand why you are so confident Holyflare is mafia? because he is trying to say (1) palmar made a post about sandroba, which he considers bussing. (2) because of that, he votes for me, because i think palmar is town (for whatever reason) (3) after catching up he is now suspicious of vivax, who shares the whole sentiment of him thinking palmar is bussing sandroba, which doesnt make any sense. and even if he changed his mind, then (2) should not apply because we all 4 cannot be mafia... To be honest I am having a hard time figuring out what raynpelikoneet is getting at here. But the point is that he is suspicious of Holyflare and thinks he is mafia for two reasons. If I recall correctly, this didn't gain much momentum and I am interested to see how exactly raynpelikoneet reacted to that. On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. I do like the followup. It may not be what I'm used to from raynpelikoneet (no shouting) but it's still solid, I'll take it. On December 11 2023 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: koshi, hf, dmb best lynch Surprised he doesn't include sandroba, given the discussions he had and some suspicions shared, but I don't know if it's super alignment indicative other than possible TMI that sandroba is town but that's on pretty sketchy ground. This is post #412, at this point die_meatbaby's only post in the game is this: On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished Which really sticks out to me. I'm very surprised that raynpelikoneet would include die_meatbaby in the best lynch list, alongside Holyflare, who he is strongly scumreading, and more than sandroba, who he is suspicious of. Why not include Chezinu, if it's a pure policy? This by itself isn't the most incriminating (though I do think it sticks out) but I'm very interested to see what he thinks about policy lynches/Chezinu lynch later. If he's one of the people that speaks out against policy/gamble lynches then this looks decently suspicious to me. On December 11 2023 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished lynch Unless raynpelikoneet actually thought something about this is suspicious? On December 11 2023 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished lynch maybe actually when she flips mafia, lynch vivax, then lynch anyone who thought vivax is town other than me :D And also suspicious of Vivax? It's possible there is a line of reasoning/association I am missing here, but this doesn't seem like a town thought process to me. Yet he never voted for Vivax. Raynpelikoneet ended up switching from Holyflare to sandroba at end of day to save Vivax, seeing that Vivax had been active. This is understandable, as he'd been out for a while and was just coming back with 13 minutes until end of day. On December 13 2023 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I ended up with list of:
Holyflare Chezinu sandroba Trfel Koshi
in no particular order atm. Everyone else i think is more or less town. Here I'm very surprised that die_meatbaby ended up not on this list? Wasn't raynpelikoneet saying we should lynch her earlier? To be fair she'd only made one post at that time, by now she'd posted more, but this means there must have been something that raynpelikoneet liked about die_meatbaby's posts. This is post 1195, before this point what did die_meatbaby do? Answer: just a page and a half of filter. I'm going to assume that the (presumed) townread is for being around at EoD and trying to save Vivax. This is reasonable ish I suppose. On December 13 2023 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also why i think DMB is town, i see like 0% reason DMB does not lynch Vivax D1 here as mafia. Hell Vivax even scumreads her, i see no world where mafia!DMB does not lynch Vivax. Here's the explanation. I actually think this makes sense, this is actually a very valid point. Props to raynpelikoneet. On December 13 2023 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also want to lynch Chezinu because i think he implied someone is blue or red but didn't go further into it when i asked. So Chezinu is more than just a policy... On December 13 2023 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: There are some points where he breaks character. Like all up to his p2 of filter is fine very Palmar-esque, but then he makes a weird list post (not that it's bad). I find it out of character anyways and i don't know what it means. It's all like full Palmar mode into tunneling Vivax into "hey here are my reads and these people i am up to lynching".... Idk it just feels very out of place to me. Then it's all back to said "character".
It's like it's a different person writing that one post. Says Palmar may not be town. I don't quite follow the reasoning but it seems understandable that raynpelikoneet could think this. On December 13 2023 05:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is Palmar top 1 contributor in his list when Palmar just lead a mislynch and DP top 2 was probably on mafia sandroba? Still confident in sandroba being mafia. On December 13 2023 09:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i think i nailed HF to the wall regardless if i am right or wrong.
sandroba is mafia though Koshi is prolly town tbh, i am just so sad. trfel trfel... can trfel be mafia with sandroba?
Still confident in sandroba. On December 15 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are people, name Trfel and Koshi saying i have voted for Vivax or even scumread him? On page 84 Trfel has just read my filter apparently, and is claiming i hvae voted for Vivax. Confused by what raynpelikoneet was talking about in the post about lynching Vivax, maybe it was a joke that I missed? Because I generally thought you lynch people you are scumreading... On December 15 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are people, name Trfel and Koshi saying i have voted for Vivax or even scumread him? On page 84 Trfel has just read my filter apparently, and is claiming i hvae voted for Vivax. Ends up voting for Chezinu. No reason given. On December 15 2023 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: You talked ~20 pages about same stuff we did D1. Then Slam (and Trfel) orchestrated a switch to Chezinu, who everyone seems to think is mafia, but noone wants to vote for. Then i voted for Chezinu. On December 15 2023 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i still think sandroba is mafia, but i also think Chezinu is mafia and noone seems to be willing to vote for him while thinking he is mafia and drawing some random conclusions about it. This is interesting. Suddenly actually thinks Chezinu is mafia: On December 15 2023 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2023 02:29 Koshi wrote: 2 cases why tfrel is town. (Or town and mafia in HF case) I think chezinu is mafia I think sandroba is mafia I think HF is mafia there is 3 reasons  That wasn't what I got before, I thought he only had one thought on Chezinu other than seemingly POEing him? To be fair it's possible that that one thought was enough here. On December 15 2023 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 19:45 Holyflare wrote: I will never accept anyone as a player that lets chez get away with surviving if it comes down to that at end game btw. I am like 99% sure he's mafia and we don't have a way to deal with it.
Would rather lynch someone that gives us information today obv but do not wifom yourself out of letting him live if you need to make that decision later in the game. I heavily dislike this post and i want HF to put a vote on Chezinu no matter his alignment. Chezinu is genuinely scummy, i tried to get into conversation with him about if he actually believes Trfel is blue or red. It didn't happen. He just kept repeating the same stuff. Raynpelikoneet stands by this. I don't know if this logic for reading Chezinu makes much sense, but that doesn't matter, all that matters is if raynpelikoneet thinks it makes sense, and that I cannot say. On December 15 2023 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: First of all there is no way i am voting for Chezinu over sandroba D2 when i did if i was mafia. Not even in the scenario where i am mafia with Chezinu and sandroba. I was the key person to actually make Chezinu lynch even viable option at that time.
So i guess it's time to look through all the people who are telling i am mafia because i voted for Chezinu, or whatever i did during D2. There is mafia there and there is probably 2 mafia in there.
That means i don't care about Slam, Trfel, DMB. How impactful raynpelikoneet was in getting Chezinu lynched has already been debated for a while, I don't care to argue about that. I am interested though how important raynpelikoneet thought his own vote on Chezinu was, like how passionate he was about it. Because I didn't get a ton of passion. His scumreads have felt fairly static this game to be honest. Then he seems to think that Koshi could be mafia. On December 16 2023 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Im thinking most likely answer atm is HF + Palmar. Then surprised that Koshi or I aren't worth considering? Or sandroba? He said that the game is likely solved, but it seems like there are a lot of people he is still suspicious of here? On December 16 2023 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 05:41 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2023 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can work with you. I don't honestly expect anyone to have an opinion on what i say, nor do i care about anyone having an opinion what i say. I am probably lynched tomorrow no matter what, i don't care. I am just here to figure out who is mafia, for my own amusement. People believe my reads or they don't.
I can't work with you. I don't want to talk about this with you, especially with you. I have already said what i have to say, and i think you're mafia. If you have something else to talk about please do. My reads are not set in stone, and even if they were i am not gonna claim it until the end of night phase. Wait which one is it? lol Did you forget to delete one? Oh i CAN work with you  lol ^^ This was pretty funny. On December 16 2023 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know how Koshi and sandroba look really good even from your perspective. But they aren't on his scum team and the game is solved? Confused.
It's tough for me to get any conclusions about raynpelikoneet. If he's town I think he's played a solid game. If he's mafia I think he's played a very strong and impressive game. There's a lot of little nitpicky things, but I don't really think those are alignment indicative. The most alignment indicative things I see are:
Static scumreads. This isn't a reason to be suspicious of people that I'm used to using, but I know people mention it a lot. Raynpelikoneet's scumreads do seem rather static here, compared to what I generally expect from him.
Lots of suspicion. He seems to have cleared very few people as being town throughout the game, and while he has top lynches he seems to want to get more than others, he keeps throwing suspicion at a large amount of people. And he seems to be very content with suspecting a large amount of people, extremely content even.
His vote onto Chezinu. I actually do think it's suspicious, how he voted for Chezinu despite seemingly being more invested in Holyflare and/or sandroba being mafia and talking more about them. I know he's said that he thinks he had the pivotal vote on Chezinu that enabled the lynch to happen. People have debated this but let's assume that this is true for a moment, with this assumption in place I'm surprised that he then didn't seem very invested in the actual wagon/lynch itself? Not long after voting he even said something to the effect of "I think sandroba is mafia and I also think Chezinu is mafia but I'll lynch Chezinu since sandroba has a higher chance of providing new information later" which is a valid perspective but he doesn't seem very passionate about lynching Chezinu over sandroba.
Not sure if I said that in a way that makes sense. I could see raynpelikoneet being town or mafia, which isn't very helpful, if he is mafia though I think it is due to the above reasons.
It's like he's suspicious of a lot of people but isn't actually passionate about any votes he makes or actually lynching anyone? That does seem off to me. Maybe slight leaning mafia, to be honest.
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On December 16 2023 17:40 Trfel wrote:PalmarI should say that I don't think it's super likely that Palmar and die_meatbaby are mafia together. But that's unflipped association analysis and I shouldn't rule it out regardless, just an interesting point. + Show Spoiler [analysis] +It's 3a here so I'm going to start going a little faster. On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote: There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter. It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. Ignoring Palmar's push onto Vivax. I don't know how alignment indicative it is. This is the first thing that really sticks out in Palmar's filter from an alignment indicative perspective, I don't think Palmar's reasoning here is valid. Let's check this. This is post #794. What did sandroba think about Palmar before this? Answer: likely town. Fair enough, maybe I stand corrected. I still think this is a big mischaracterization of what sandroba is doing though. On December 12 2023 18:29 Palmar wrote: Like I think the plan of putting Sandroba through the ringer tomorrow is a pretty good one. It's pretty standard for me to immediately spot mafia on day 1 and then convince myself that some random useless townie is definitely the better lynch. Did Palmar really immediately spot sandroba as mafia though? That wasn't the impression I got. Lemme check this. Well I checked it, I didn't see Palmar's posts that way, but it's possible Palmar did. Meh. On December 12 2023 18:34 Palmar wrote: Koshi, DP and dmb are my townreads atm
Trfel is lean town but he dropped off hard, rayn is also neat but also lazy
HF, Sandroba and maybe marv are scumreads. some of today has made me think marv maybe a little less scummy so the other two are the ones I wanna murder I think
Then we have slam and chez
Side note, it's weird that he dropped Alakaslam from being a townread. Don't really get that at all. On December 13 2023 07:11 Palmar wrote: My reads are what they are, HF/Sandroba probably the bottom tier. Still think we shoot trolls if we can.
If slam and chez are both town, along with Vivax being a troll for some reason, this is gonna be a hard game. Doubling down on it, and calling Alakaslam a troll feels very off, especially given that they were masoned together and Palmar's reasoning earlier. I actually think this is an important point, the first important point I'm seeing from Palmar (in terms of alignment indicativeness). On December 14 2023 02:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote: I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.
##vote Chezinu
The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness. Scummy Wait, why is this scummy? I somehow haven't seen this post before. Especially given that Chezinu flipped mafia, the callout on my vote looks worse. More than being wrong in that Chezinu was mafia, it feels discrediting. Then again it's also Palmar and Palmar can just kinda be like this, so idk. Triples down on calling Alakaslam a troll. I don't get how he can say this, Alakaslam isn't a troll anymore, and especially not this game. I must add, I find the descriptions of Palmar and sandroba's mason chat rather amusing. On December 14 2023 23:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote: I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone Palmar is mafia today due to how much people already suspect me. I'd be down to lynch DMB/Chezinu. To anyone who is town: Please let's rally and find a good lynch today. Don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me and be in the same spot tomorrow with DMB and Chezinu alive, being convinced by Palmar and his cheerleader they were just wrong and now we must lynch Trfel or w/e. The list on you is me, Koshi, Marv and Holyflare. You say "don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me". Are these mafia-steamrollers in the room with us right now? Palmar isn't really townreading these people though, is he? Meh, he tentatively is, except for Holyflare. Actually, he's probably saying this from sandroba's perspective, so this is all invalid. On December 15 2023 06:55 Palmar wrote: stay safe Marv
This Chez lynch is such a crapshoot. But I'm almost tempted to just not do anything about it and see it through. I feel like the game is in a bad state at the moment so maybe rolling the dice is a good idea.
How is the game in a bad state? You said that it was a productive Day 1 and you have a strong scumread? I'm really confused about where the uncertainty is coming from. At times Palmar seems certain about sandroba being mafia, like enough to not take him super seriously in the mason chat, but also Palmar says stuff like this. On December 15 2023 05:19 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two Vote Count
Chezinu (6): Trfel, Alakaslam, sandroba, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Koshi sandroba (2): marvellosity, Koshi, Palmar, Holyflare, Holyflare Trfel (1): sandroba, Holyflare, Chezinu, Alakaslam die_meatbaby (0): sandroba Palmar (0): sandroba
Not Voting (1):die_meatbaby
With 6 votes, Chezinu is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Friday, Dec 15 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Vote count before Palmar switched his vote to Chezinu. I can see Palmar's perspective that lynching Chezinu was purely a policy lynch, but going for it at this point over his strong scumread (or is it a strong scumread)? of sandroba seems off to me. I need to reread his filter again but paying attention to the sandroba scumread, it's like I somehow missed the part where Palmar isn't actually sure if sandroba is mafia and is significantly doubting it. But I just didn't see that stated. On December 15 2023 09:45 Palmar wrote: I still think sandroba is scum. Even if I was mostly trolling him in the QT, I feel like he had a narrative that he wanted to push, an ideal target to land upon and was avoiding trying to give too much other stuff away.
Also, while this is not necessarily a strong scum-tell, it always felt like he was doing the "right thing" in pushing for a lynch he likes. My interactions with him felt like he wasn't annoyed and incredulous enough at being accused of being mafia. He almost "accepted" being called mafia and tried to push for a different lynch.
Now this isn't a scummy thing in itself, a good townie will push for alternative lynches, but the problem is I feel like townies tend to almost always get angry about being called scum when they aren't.
It's largely an emotional read on sandro. Okay I just really don't get it. On December 15 2023 09:50 Palmar wrote: My current team is like sandro/rayn and some random dude. Maybe chez? who knows. But he is content voting for Chezinu? And a post before (2012) he said raynpelikoneet is highly likely mafia? Here's the thing about Palmar. He says he feels lost and doesn't know anything but his posts don't seem to indicate that, he seems to have scumreads he is confident in? On December 15 2023 20:00 Palmar wrote: Slam gets an automatic pass tomorrow. I townread him initially, I think him masoning me is a town move, and he just... led town? ... to a mafia lynch. If this was a bus we search for his partner. The simple explanation is that Slam is town and I see no reason to pursue that further. Wait what, wasn't Alakaslam a policy for day 2? So so confused. This feels convenient given that everyone is townreading Alakaslam. No conclusion just yet, need to double check. Also I'm tired and I don't quite trust myself to come up with a valid conclusion at this point. But two points that stick out. 1 - Palmar says he thinks Alakaslam is town day 1, then day 2 calls him a troll/unreadable, then day 3 calls him town for the same reason Palmar said Alakaslam was town on day 1. This doesn't make much sense to me. I could see Palmar giving Alakaslam a pass on day 1 and then looking into it more on day 2+, but going back to it FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS seems suspect. 2 - Palmar's read on sandroba day 2 especially made no sense. Sandroba was one of his top scumreads, and he seemed confident in that read, but he also kept saying things where he seemed to be doubting. It's like he was simultaneously both confident in that read and doubting that read. In the end I don't really know what to think of Palmar, I was thinking he was town before and now I'm really not so sure. But my energy for quality analysis is pretty much gone at this point, I'll try and follow up on these things tomorrow. Curious if people have any thoughts on die_meatbaby and Palmar for these reasons or others. Palmar, do you have any thoughts on point (1) above? Something I am missing or not understanding maybe?
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On December 17 2023 02:18 Palmar wrote: Now I need to go find out why Sandroba thinks Trfel is mafia because I liked most of Trfel's filter. He doesn’t anymore unless I missed another switcheraroo
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On December 17 2023 03:26 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 17:40 Trfel wrote:PalmarI should say that I don't think it's super likely that Palmar and die_meatbaby are mafia together. But that's unflipped association analysis and I shouldn't rule it out regardless, just an interesting point. + Show Spoiler [analysis] +It's 3a here so I'm going to start going a little faster. On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote: There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter. It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. Ignoring Palmar's push onto Vivax. I don't know how alignment indicative it is. This is the first thing that really sticks out in Palmar's filter from an alignment indicative perspective, I don't think Palmar's reasoning here is valid. Let's check this. This is post #794. What did sandroba think about Palmar before this? Answer: likely town. Fair enough, maybe I stand corrected. I still think this is a big mischaracterization of what sandroba is doing though. On December 12 2023 18:29 Palmar wrote: Like I think the plan of putting Sandroba through the ringer tomorrow is a pretty good one. It's pretty standard for me to immediately spot mafia on day 1 and then convince myself that some random useless townie is definitely the better lynch. Did Palmar really immediately spot sandroba as mafia though? That wasn't the impression I got. Lemme check this. Well I checked it, I didn't see Palmar's posts that way, but it's possible Palmar did. Meh. On December 12 2023 18:34 Palmar wrote: Koshi, DP and dmb are my townreads atm
Trfel is lean town but he dropped off hard, rayn is also neat but also lazy
HF, Sandroba and maybe marv are scumreads. some of today has made me think marv maybe a little less scummy so the other two are the ones I wanna murder I think
Then we have slam and chez
Side note, it's weird that he dropped Alakaslam from being a townread. Don't really get that at all. On December 13 2023 07:11 Palmar wrote: My reads are what they are, HF/Sandroba probably the bottom tier. Still think we shoot trolls if we can.
If slam and chez are both town, along with Vivax being a troll for some reason, this is gonna be a hard game. Doubling down on it, and calling Alakaslam a troll feels very off, especially given that they were masoned together and Palmar's reasoning earlier. I actually think this is an important point, the first important point I'm seeing from Palmar (in terms of alignment indicativeness). On December 14 2023 02:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote: I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.
##vote Chezinu
The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness. Scummy Wait, why is this scummy? I somehow haven't seen this post before. Especially given that Chezinu flipped mafia, the callout on my vote looks worse. More than being wrong in that Chezinu was mafia, it feels discrediting. Then again it's also Palmar and Palmar can just kinda be like this, so idk. Triples down on calling Alakaslam a troll. I don't get how he can say this, Alakaslam isn't a troll anymore, and especially not this game. I must add, I find the descriptions of Palmar and sandroba's mason chat rather amusing. On December 14 2023 23:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote: I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone Palmar is mafia today due to how much people already suspect me. I'd be down to lynch DMB/Chezinu. To anyone who is town: Please let's rally and find a good lynch today. Don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me and be in the same spot tomorrow with DMB and Chezinu alive, being convinced by Palmar and his cheerleader they were just wrong and now we must lynch Trfel or w/e. The list on you is me, Koshi, Marv and Holyflare. You say "don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me". Are these mafia-steamrollers in the room with us right now? Palmar isn't really townreading these people though, is he? Meh, he tentatively is, except for Holyflare. Actually, he's probably saying this from sandroba's perspective, so this is all invalid. On December 15 2023 06:55 Palmar wrote: stay safe Marv
This Chez lynch is such a crapshoot. But I'm almost tempted to just not do anything about it and see it through. I feel like the game is in a bad state at the moment so maybe rolling the dice is a good idea.
How is the game in a bad state? You said that it was a productive Day 1 and you have a strong scumread? I'm really confused about where the uncertainty is coming from. At times Palmar seems certain about sandroba being mafia, like enough to not take him super seriously in the mason chat, but also Palmar says stuff like this. On December 15 2023 05:19 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two Vote Count
Chezinu (6): Trfel, Alakaslam, sandroba, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Koshi sandroba (2): marvellosity, Koshi, Palmar, Holyflare, Holyflare Trfel (1): sandroba, Holyflare, Chezinu, Alakaslam die_meatbaby (0): sandroba Palmar (0): sandroba
Not Voting (1):die_meatbaby
With 6 votes, Chezinu is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Friday, Dec 15 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Vote count before Palmar switched his vote to Chezinu. I can see Palmar's perspective that lynching Chezinu was purely a policy lynch, but going for it at this point over his strong scumread (or is it a strong scumread)? of sandroba seems off to me. I need to reread his filter again but paying attention to the sandroba scumread, it's like I somehow missed the part where Palmar isn't actually sure if sandroba is mafia and is significantly doubting it. But I just didn't see that stated. On December 15 2023 09:45 Palmar wrote: I still think sandroba is scum. Even if I was mostly trolling him in the QT, I feel like he had a narrative that he wanted to push, an ideal target to land upon and was avoiding trying to give too much other stuff away.
Also, while this is not necessarily a strong scum-tell, it always felt like he was doing the "right thing" in pushing for a lynch he likes. My interactions with him felt like he wasn't annoyed and incredulous enough at being accused of being mafia. He almost "accepted" being called mafia and tried to push for a different lynch.
Now this isn't a scummy thing in itself, a good townie will push for alternative lynches, but the problem is I feel like townies tend to almost always get angry about being called scum when they aren't.
It's largely an emotional read on sandro. Okay I just really don't get it. On December 15 2023 09:50 Palmar wrote: My current team is like sandro/rayn and some random dude. Maybe chez? who knows. But he is content voting for Chezinu? And a post before (2012) he said raynpelikoneet is highly likely mafia? Here's the thing about Palmar. He says he feels lost and doesn't know anything but his posts don't seem to indicate that, he seems to have scumreads he is confident in? On December 15 2023 20:00 Palmar wrote: Slam gets an automatic pass tomorrow. I townread him initially, I think him masoning me is a town move, and he just... led town? ... to a mafia lynch. If this was a bus we search for his partner. The simple explanation is that Slam is town and I see no reason to pursue that further. Wait what, wasn't Alakaslam a policy for day 2? So so confused. This feels convenient given that everyone is townreading Alakaslam. No conclusion just yet, need to double check. Also I'm tired and I don't quite trust myself to come up with a valid conclusion at this point. But two points that stick out. 1 - Palmar says he thinks Alakaslam is town day 1, then day 2 calls him a troll/unreadable, then day 3 calls him town for the same reason Palmar said Alakaslam was town on day 1. This doesn't make much sense to me. I could see Palmar giving Alakaslam a pass on day 1 and then looking into it more on day 2+, but going back to it FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS seems suspect. 2 - Palmar's read on sandroba day 2 especially made no sense. Sandroba was one of his top scumreads, and he seemed confident in that read, but he also kept saying things where he seemed to be doubting. It's like he was simultaneously both confident in that read and doubting that read. In the end I don't really know what to think of Palmar, I was thinking he was town before and now I'm really not so sure. But my energy for quality analysis is pretty much gone at this point, I'll try and follow up on these things tomorrow. Curious if people have any thoughts on die_meatbaby and Palmar for these reasons or others. Palmar, do you have any thoughts on point (1) above? Something I am missing or not understanding maybe?
No not really. Slam is a troll player who did some things that I thought might be townie.
Day 1: slam does something townie so he gets a pass N1/D2: slam does very little I think is townie, so my townread fades a little N2/D3: slam helped kill mafia, so he renews his pass
I would still fully support a vigilante killing him. He is very difficult to read and because he doesn't really play the game it's hard to figure out his alignment.
But what little I can divine into his alignment leads me to think that he's more likely to be town than not.
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On December 17 2023 03:50 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 03:26 Trfel wrote:On December 16 2023 17:40 Trfel wrote:PalmarI should say that I don't think it's super likely that Palmar and die_meatbaby are mafia together. But that's unflipped association analysis and I shouldn't rule it out regardless, just an interesting point. + Show Spoiler [analysis] +It's 3a here so I'm going to start going a little faster. On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote: There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter. It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. Ignoring Palmar's push onto Vivax. I don't know how alignment indicative it is. This is the first thing that really sticks out in Palmar's filter from an alignment indicative perspective, I don't think Palmar's reasoning here is valid. Let's check this. This is post #794. What did sandroba think about Palmar before this? Answer: likely town. Fair enough, maybe I stand corrected. I still think this is a big mischaracterization of what sandroba is doing though. On December 12 2023 18:29 Palmar wrote: Like I think the plan of putting Sandroba through the ringer tomorrow is a pretty good one. It's pretty standard for me to immediately spot mafia on day 1 and then convince myself that some random useless townie is definitely the better lynch. Did Palmar really immediately spot sandroba as mafia though? That wasn't the impression I got. Lemme check this. Well I checked it, I didn't see Palmar's posts that way, but it's possible Palmar did. Meh. On December 12 2023 18:34 Palmar wrote: Koshi, DP and dmb are my townreads atm
Trfel is lean town but he dropped off hard, rayn is also neat but also lazy
HF, Sandroba and maybe marv are scumreads. some of today has made me think marv maybe a little less scummy so the other two are the ones I wanna murder I think
Then we have slam and chez
Side note, it's weird that he dropped Alakaslam from being a townread. Don't really get that at all. On December 13 2023 07:11 Palmar wrote: My reads are what they are, HF/Sandroba probably the bottom tier. Still think we shoot trolls if we can.
If slam and chez are both town, along with Vivax being a troll for some reason, this is gonna be a hard game. Doubling down on it, and calling Alakaslam a troll feels very off, especially given that they were masoned together and Palmar's reasoning earlier. I actually think this is an important point, the first important point I'm seeing from Palmar (in terms of alignment indicativeness). On December 14 2023 02:53 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 02:48 Trfel wrote: I'm just going to vote for Chezinu, I think he is just mafia. We had a game in the past where we were town together and talked quite a bit, and a game in the past where we were scum together, in fact I think maybe two games, and his effort and engagement with the game feel very scummy. He's capable of much more as town, we all know this. You shouldn't have to beg him to interact with the game. He's even made plenty of posts, the time is there, the desire to do anything about solving the game is not.
##vote Chezinu
The house of brown has found it time to end your mafia-ness. Scummy Wait, why is this scummy? I somehow haven't seen this post before. Especially given that Chezinu flipped mafia, the callout on my vote looks worse. More than being wrong in that Chezinu was mafia, it feels discrediting. Then again it's also Palmar and Palmar can just kinda be like this, so idk. Triples down on calling Alakaslam a troll. I don't get how he can say this, Alakaslam isn't a troll anymore, and especially not this game. I must add, I find the descriptions of Palmar and sandroba's mason chat rather amusing. On December 14 2023 23:42 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 23:37 sandroba wrote: I don't think I'll be able to convince anyone Palmar is mafia today due to how much people already suspect me. I'd be down to lynch DMB/Chezinu. To anyone who is town: Please let's rally and find a good lynch today. Don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me and be in the same spot tomorrow with DMB and Chezinu alive, being convinced by Palmar and his cheerleader they were just wrong and now we must lynch Trfel or w/e. The list on you is me, Koshi, Marv and Holyflare. You say "don't let the mafia steamroll this lynch on me". Are these mafia-steamrollers in the room with us right now? Palmar isn't really townreading these people though, is he? Meh, he tentatively is, except for Holyflare. Actually, he's probably saying this from sandroba's perspective, so this is all invalid. On December 15 2023 06:55 Palmar wrote: stay safe Marv
This Chez lynch is such a crapshoot. But I'm almost tempted to just not do anything about it and see it through. I feel like the game is in a bad state at the moment so maybe rolling the dice is a good idea.
How is the game in a bad state? You said that it was a productive Day 1 and you have a strong scumread? I'm really confused about where the uncertainty is coming from. At times Palmar seems certain about sandroba being mafia, like enough to not take him super seriously in the mason chat, but also Palmar says stuff like this. On December 15 2023 05:19 Grackaroni wrote: Day Two Vote Count
Chezinu (6): Trfel, Alakaslam, sandroba, raynpelikoneet, marvellosity, Koshi sandroba (2): marvellosity, Koshi, Palmar, Holyflare, Holyflare Trfel (1): sandroba, Holyflare, Chezinu, Alakaslam die_meatbaby (0): sandroba Palmar (0): sandroba
Not Voting (1):die_meatbaby
With 6 votes, Chezinu is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Friday, Dec 15 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
Vote count before Palmar switched his vote to Chezinu. I can see Palmar's perspective that lynching Chezinu was purely a policy lynch, but going for it at this point over his strong scumread (or is it a strong scumread)? of sandroba seems off to me. I need to reread his filter again but paying attention to the sandroba scumread, it's like I somehow missed the part where Palmar isn't actually sure if sandroba is mafia and is significantly doubting it. But I just didn't see that stated. On December 15 2023 09:45 Palmar wrote: I still think sandroba is scum. Even if I was mostly trolling him in the QT, I feel like he had a narrative that he wanted to push, an ideal target to land upon and was avoiding trying to give too much other stuff away.
Also, while this is not necessarily a strong scum-tell, it always felt like he was doing the "right thing" in pushing for a lynch he likes. My interactions with him felt like he wasn't annoyed and incredulous enough at being accused of being mafia. He almost "accepted" being called mafia and tried to push for a different lynch.
Now this isn't a scummy thing in itself, a good townie will push for alternative lynches, but the problem is I feel like townies tend to almost always get angry about being called scum when they aren't.
It's largely an emotional read on sandro. Okay I just really don't get it. On December 15 2023 09:50 Palmar wrote: My current team is like sandro/rayn and some random dude. Maybe chez? who knows. But he is content voting for Chezinu? And a post before (2012) he said raynpelikoneet is highly likely mafia? Here's the thing about Palmar. He says he feels lost and doesn't know anything but his posts don't seem to indicate that, he seems to have scumreads he is confident in? On December 15 2023 20:00 Palmar wrote: Slam gets an automatic pass tomorrow. I townread him initially, I think him masoning me is a town move, and he just... led town? ... to a mafia lynch. If this was a bus we search for his partner. The simple explanation is that Slam is town and I see no reason to pursue that further. Wait what, wasn't Alakaslam a policy for day 2? So so confused. This feels convenient given that everyone is townreading Alakaslam. No conclusion just yet, need to double check. Also I'm tired and I don't quite trust myself to come up with a valid conclusion at this point. But two points that stick out. 1 - Palmar says he thinks Alakaslam is town day 1, then day 2 calls him a troll/unreadable, then day 3 calls him town for the same reason Palmar said Alakaslam was town on day 1. This doesn't make much sense to me. I could see Palmar giving Alakaslam a pass on day 1 and then looking into it more on day 2+, but going back to it FOR THE EXACT SAME REASONS seems suspect. 2 - Palmar's read on sandroba day 2 especially made no sense. Sandroba was one of his top scumreads, and he seemed confident in that read, but he also kept saying things where he seemed to be doubting. It's like he was simultaneously both confident in that read and doubting that read. In the end I don't really know what to think of Palmar, I was thinking he was town before and now I'm really not so sure. But my energy for quality analysis is pretty much gone at this point, I'll try and follow up on these things tomorrow. Curious if people have any thoughts on die_meatbaby and Palmar for these reasons or others. Palmar, do you have any thoughts on point (1) above? Something I am missing or not understanding maybe? No not really. Slam is a troll player who did some things that I thought might be townie. Day 1: slam does something townie so he gets a pass N1/D2: slam does very little I think is townie, so my townread fades a little N2/D3: slam helped kill mafia, so he renews his pass I would still fully support a vigilante killing him. He is very difficult to read and because he doesn't really play the game it's hard to figure out his alignment. But what little I can divine into his alignment leads me to think that he's more likely to be town than not. Oh, I see. I suppose that's understandable. Thanks.
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On December 17 2023 02:56 Trfel wrote:raynpelikoneet+ Show Spoiler [analysis] +On December 11 2023 03:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 03:51 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:41 Vivax wrote: Palmar a bit too sure of himself in tone for my liking. Like he's got somebody lined up to be gifted a pair of shiny concrete boots, maybe a weak teammate under threat (which could be sandro).
He's very conscious of the Trfel/Sandro dichotomy here but not as motivated to deliver much explanation of his own as he is to appear motivated to lynch into it. I believe this is the post in question. Raynpelikoneet, other than the above question though, can you help me understand why you are so confident Holyflare is mafia? because he is trying to say (1) palmar made a post about sandroba, which he considers bussing. (2) because of that, he votes for me, because i think palmar is town (for whatever reason) (3) after catching up he is now suspicious of vivax, who shares the whole sentiment of him thinking palmar is bussing sandroba, which doesnt make any sense. and even if he changed his mind, then (2) should not apply because we all 4 cannot be mafia... To be honest I am having a hard time figuring out what raynpelikoneet is getting at here. But the point is that he is suspicious of Holyflare and thinks he is mafia for two reasons. If I recall correctly, this didn't gain much momentum and I am interested to see how exactly raynpelikoneet reacted to that. On December 11 2023 04:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am gonna take a little break. My feet have been cold for like 3 days because of shitty socks, and i just want to go to sauna now that i can. Will be back in an hour.
If anyone would like to have an opinion on Holyflare, and especially on what i said on him, i would appreciate. I do like the followup. It may not be what I'm used to from raynpelikoneet (no shouting) but it's still solid, I'll take it. On December 11 2023 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: koshi, hf, dmb best lynch Surprised he doesn't include sandroba, given the discussions he had and some suspicions shared, but I don't know if it's super alignment indicative other than possible TMI that sandroba is town but that's on pretty sketchy ground. This is post #412, at this point die_meatbaby's only post in the game is this: On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished Which really sticks out to me. I'm very surprised that raynpelikoneet would include die_meatbaby in the best lynch list, alongside Holyflare, who he is strongly scumreading, and more than sandroba, who he is suspicious of. Why not include Chezinu, if it's a pure policy? This by itself isn't the most incriminating (though I do think it sticks out) but I'm very interested to see what he thinks about policy lynches/Chezinu lynch later. If he's one of the people that speaks out against policy/gamble lynches then this looks decently suspicious to me. On December 11 2023 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished lynch Unless raynpelikoneet actually thought something about this is suspicious? On December 11 2023 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 06:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 11 2023 01:23 die_meatbaby wrote: Hello nice do play again. Didn't post anything and there are already votes. I will catch up in a few hours as soon as my shift is finished lynch maybe actually when she flips mafia, lynch vivax, then lynch anyone who thought vivax is town other than me :D And also suspicious of Vivax? It's possible there is a line of reasoning/association I am missing here, but this doesn't seem like a town thought process to me. Yet he never voted for Vivax. Raynpelikoneet ended up switching from Holyflare to sandroba at end of day to save Vivax, seeing that Vivax had been active. This is understandable, as he'd been out for a while and was just coming back with 13 minutes until end of day. On December 13 2023 00:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I ended up with list of:
Holyflare Chezinu sandroba Trfel Koshi
in no particular order atm. Everyone else i think is more or less town. Here I'm very surprised that die_meatbaby ended up not on this list? Wasn't raynpelikoneet saying we should lynch her earlier? To be fair she'd only made one post at that time, by now she'd posted more, but this means there must have been something that raynpelikoneet liked about die_meatbaby's posts. This is post 1195, before this point what did die_meatbaby do? Answer: just a page and a half of filter. I'm going to assume that the (presumed) townread is for being around at EoD and trying to save Vivax. This is reasonable ish I suppose. On December 13 2023 02:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also why i think DMB is town, i see like 0% reason DMB does not lynch Vivax D1 here as mafia. Hell Vivax even scumreads her, i see no world where mafia!DMB does not lynch Vivax. Here's the explanation. I actually think this makes sense, this is actually a very valid point. Props to raynpelikoneet. On December 13 2023 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I also want to lynch Chezinu because i think he implied someone is blue or red but didn't go further into it when i asked. So Chezinu is more than just a policy... On December 13 2023 04:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: There are some points where he breaks character. Like all up to his p2 of filter is fine very Palmar-esque, but then he makes a weird list post (not that it's bad). I find it out of character anyways and i don't know what it means. It's all like full Palmar mode into tunneling Vivax into "hey here are my reads and these people i am up to lynching".... Idk it just feels very out of place to me. Then it's all back to said "character".
It's like it's a different person writing that one post. Says Palmar may not be town. I don't quite follow the reasoning but it seems understandable that raynpelikoneet could think this. On December 13 2023 05:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is Palmar top 1 contributor in his list when Palmar just lead a mislynch and DP top 2 was probably on mafia sandroba? Still confident in sandroba being mafia. On December 13 2023 09:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i think i nailed HF to the wall regardless if i am right or wrong.
sandroba is mafia though Koshi is prolly town tbh, i am just so sad. trfel trfel... can trfel be mafia with sandroba?
Still confident in sandroba. On December 15 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are people, name Trfel and Koshi saying i have voted for Vivax or even scumread him? On page 84 Trfel has just read my filter apparently, and is claiming i hvae voted for Vivax. Confused by what raynpelikoneet was talking about in the post about lynching Vivax, maybe it was a joke that I missed? Because I generally thought you lynch people you are scumreading... On December 15 2023 01:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are people, name Trfel and Koshi saying i have voted for Vivax or even scumread him? On page 84 Trfel has just read my filter apparently, and is claiming i hvae voted for Vivax. Ends up voting for Chezinu. No reason given. On December 15 2023 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: You talked ~20 pages about same stuff we did D1. Then Slam (and Trfel) orchestrated a switch to Chezinu, who everyone seems to think is mafia, but noone wants to vote for. Then i voted for Chezinu. On December 15 2023 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like i still think sandroba is mafia, but i also think Chezinu is mafia and noone seems to be willing to vote for him while thinking he is mafia and drawing some random conclusions about it. This is interesting. Suddenly actually thinks Chezinu is mafia: On December 15 2023 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2023 02:29 Koshi wrote: 2 cases why tfrel is town. (Or town and mafia in HF case) I think chezinu is mafia I think sandroba is mafia I think HF is mafia there is 3 reasons  That wasn't what I got before, I thought he only had one thought on Chezinu other than seemingly POEing him? To be fair it's possible that that one thought was enough here. On December 15 2023 02:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2023 19:45 Holyflare wrote: I will never accept anyone as a player that lets chez get away with surviving if it comes down to that at end game btw. I am like 99% sure he's mafia and we don't have a way to deal with it.
Would rather lynch someone that gives us information today obv but do not wifom yourself out of letting him live if you need to make that decision later in the game. I heavily dislike this post and i want HF to put a vote on Chezinu no matter his alignment. Chezinu is genuinely scummy, i tried to get into conversation with him about if he actually believes Trfel is blue or red. It didn't happen. He just kept repeating the same stuff. Raynpelikoneet stands by this. I don't know if this logic for reading Chezinu makes much sense, but that doesn't matter, all that matters is if raynpelikoneet thinks it makes sense, and that I cannot say. On December 15 2023 22:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: First of all there is no way i am voting for Chezinu over sandroba D2 when i did if i was mafia. Not even in the scenario where i am mafia with Chezinu and sandroba. I was the key person to actually make Chezinu lynch even viable option at that time.
So i guess it's time to look through all the people who are telling i am mafia because i voted for Chezinu, or whatever i did during D2. There is mafia there and there is probably 2 mafia in there.
That means i don't care about Slam, Trfel, DMB. How impactful raynpelikoneet was in getting Chezinu lynched has already been debated for a while, I don't care to argue about that. I am interested though how important raynpelikoneet thought his own vote on Chezinu was, like how passionate he was about it. Because I didn't get a ton of passion. His scumreads have felt fairly static this game to be honest. Then he seems to think that Koshi could be mafia. On December 16 2023 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Im thinking most likely answer atm is HF + Palmar. Then surprised that Koshi or I aren't worth considering? Or sandroba? He said that the game is likely solved, but it seems like there are a lot of people he is still suspicious of here? On December 16 2023 05:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 05:41 Holyflare wrote:On December 16 2023 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can work with you. I don't honestly expect anyone to have an opinion on what i say, nor do i care about anyone having an opinion what i say. I am probably lynched tomorrow no matter what, i don't care. I am just here to figure out who is mafia, for my own amusement. People believe my reads or they don't.
I can't work with you. I don't want to talk about this with you, especially with you. I have already said what i have to say, and i think you're mafia. If you have something else to talk about please do. My reads are not set in stone, and even if they were i am not gonna claim it until the end of night phase. Wait which one is it? lol Did you forget to delete one? Oh i CAN work with you  lol ^^ This was pretty funny. On December 16 2023 08:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: I really don't know how Koshi and sandroba look really good even from your perspective. But they aren't on his scum team and the game is solved? Confused. It's tough for me to get any conclusions about raynpelikoneet. If he's town I think he's played a solid game. If he's mafia I think he's played a very strong and impressive game. There's a lot of little nitpicky things, but I don't really think those are alignment indicative. The most alignment indicative things I see are: Static scumreads. This isn't a reason to be suspicious of people that I'm used to using, but I know people mention it a lot. Raynpelikoneet's scumreads do seem rather static here, compared to what I generally expect from him. Lots of suspicion. He seems to have cleared very few people as being town throughout the game, and while he has top lynches he seems to want to get more than others, he keeps throwing suspicion at a large amount of people. And he seems to be very content with suspecting a large amount of people, extremely content even. His vote onto Chezinu. I actually do think it's suspicious, how he voted for Chezinu despite seemingly being more invested in Holyflare and/or sandroba being mafia and talking more about them. I know he's said that he thinks he had the pivotal vote on Chezinu that enabled the lynch to happen. People have debated this but let's assume that this is true for a moment, with this assumption in place I'm surprised that he then didn't seem very invested in the actual wagon/lynch itself? Not long after voting he even said something to the effect of "I think sandroba is mafia and I also think Chezinu is mafia but I'll lynch Chezinu since sandroba has a higher chance of providing new information later" which is a valid perspective but he doesn't seem very passionate about lynching Chezinu over sandroba. Not sure if I said that in a way that makes sense. I could see raynpelikoneet being town or mafia, which isn't very helpful, if he is mafia though I think it is due to the above reasons. It's like he's suspicious of a lot of people but isn't actually passionate about any votes he makes or actually lynching anyone? That does seem off to me. Maybe slight leaning mafia, to be honest.
I actually like that post because I didn't think so much of rayn in this game and thats not good. Still a possibility there. But his vote on chez is not suspicious (in my option) He was suspicious about different people
On December 15 2023 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2023 02:29 Koshi wrote: 2 cases why tfrel is town. (Or town and mafia in HF case) I think chezinu is mafia I think sandroba is mafia I think HF is mafia there is 3 reasons 
When the voting train goes on chez why should he vote on HF when he thinks both are in the red fucker team. When I think of 3 persons in a scum team and one has good chance of getting lynched of course I go with that as Town.
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I will Filter rayn because he is one of the least interesting players atm for me and I shouldn't just accept his beeing in the thread sometimes. When he is Mafia he playes good as well.
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Palmar's reads show no progression. D2 a lot of people such and myself, marv, Trfel and Slam became obvious townies. HF especially and Rayn to a lesser extent look very townie during the night. Town Palmar I believe would be suspicious of DMB at this point, especially since it looks like the main problem she has is not people calling her scum, but that she is scum with Palmar. I don't buy his reasoning to town read DMB at all (go back and check his filter). If DMB never rolled mafia before nobody fucking knows how she would act as mafia. Being over the top could very well be a way of trying to emulate past town behavior. The investment is minimal, only shows up to vote Chezinu at the end when the lynch is set. Promises more activity and falls short. I was mostly going to talk about Palmar, but ended up even more sure DMB is mafia.
Palmar has a few damning things: - Behavior in QT. Doesn't try to get any alignment-indicative reads from me. Never tells anyone why he thinks I'm mafia, never updates his read. Uses it as a crutch to justify not trying to figure out my alignment in QT. - D2 influence and activity - doesn't do shit until people start to go to Chez, and jumps on it when it looks inevitable. Claims that he is busy in the QT but activity there is also minimal - When talking about Chez, clumps him together with Slam as "the trolls", and is very adamant about not wanting to deal with the trolls. Dismisses my claim about scum reading Chez without even wanting to hear it. - DMB read is retarded - View of the game today is abysmal
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Day Three Vote Count
Palmar (1): sandroba die_meatbaby (1): Trfel
Not Voting (6): marvellosity, die_meatbaby, raynpelikoneet, Palmar, Alakaslam, Holyflare
With 1 vote, Palmar is currently set to be lynched!
The deadline is Monday, Dec 18 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in
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