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On May 03 2020 20:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 19:52 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 03 2020 19:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 03 2020 06:56 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 06:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 06:19 Trfel wrote:On May 03 2020 05:41 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 05:37 Trfel wrote:I take it people were very underwhelmed by my post on GlowingBear  Hard to think of something I'm not underwhelmed from. Which people btw. ##Vote rayn Just no one commented on it. Maybe I need to rewrite it. Voting raynpelikoneet if he doesn't play makes sense? Except for a lot of people aren't playing currently Yeah I'm sorry if I don't pay too much attention to your case right now. I'm also kinda triggered that today to me feels like a circlejerk between you and me. But if vets I'm used to like Koshi and rayn basically put 1% of the effort they did on D1, coupled with the FF kill, then odds are at least one of them is mafia. And I'm putting my money on rayn, also because of his voting shenanigans yesterday. Hm, that makes sense, fair enough. I'll keep my vote on GlowingBear for now (I'm most confident he is mafia) but I guess I could vote for raynpelikoneet if things keep going this way. Also, sorry Jockmcplop, realized I forgot to respond to you. I am sorry for being incorrect. For some reason I'm having trouble finding the posts in your filter. I take it the reason you ask is because you're scumreading Koshi too, so the same logic that it looks suspicious for GlowingBear should look suspicious for you too. That makes sense but I don't think it really applies to this case, since this is more of an emotional point. GlowingBear should be much more emotionally invested in his scumread of Koshi if he is town, and I would expect that to come out much more in his play. OK. Thanks for responding. I don't like this argument, at least I can't go along with it, because someone's emotional investment in the game is something you get to know about each individual player and I don't really know GB at all. If I was sure you were town I would be more likely to take your word for it, but I'm not. As for the other parts of your case: 1. Scumread Koshi for misconstruing GlowingBear's play. However, note the timing, he scumread Koshi well after this all started. Despite GlowingBear not having a townread on Koshi, he got mad at Koshi and treated Koshi like town and never questioned that he could be mafia until much later, when raynpelikoneet asks him about Koshi. This doesn't feel natural at all. Town tend to be quick to call their accusers scum, especially when they feel misrepresented and ignored and all the things GlowingBear was saying. Point 1 does get my interest. Do you have quotes to back this up? 2. Shifting reads. His scumreads shift in priority in a way that doesn't make sense. First he says Jockmcplop is mafia, and Alakaslam second. Then he says Jockmcplop and Koshi are mafia, and raynpelikoneet or Alakaslam. Then he was making a case on raynpelikoneet to defend himself (huh?). Then most recently raynpelikoneet as top mafia. It doesn't feel like he is putting much thought into his scumreads. Point 2 is actually the reason i was townreading GB to start with. I think he would have taken the opportunity to get a mislynch on me rather than just townreading me because I didn't vote. He's reacting to what is happening in the thread. I take it you think these reactions are not genuine looking. Is that because of bad reasoning or just a feeling you get? This whole post is about GB rayn. I engaged trfel about his GB case because trfel was in the thread and scumreading GB. I'm actually in the middle of talking to trfel about it right now, you don't even have to leave the page to see it. I want trfel to go find the quotes to back up point 1 because it might effect my scumread on GB. Or is this all an 'outright lie' too.. I don't think there is anything you say about GB's alignment there, nor that it looks like you're even trying to re-evaluate something. You say: - You don't know GB so you dont know what he would do - But then you assume what he would do?? - The only part you seem interested in you are not willing to investigate yourself. Why does Trfel have to go and prove something to you, why aren't you interested in looking into it by yourself? You can open GB's fliter and see if what Trfel says makes sense or not. Show nested quote +Rayn, ask yourself if you are still just tunnelling me. If you are there's no point in discussing this stuff because you won't change your mind no matter what evidence i put in front you. If you're open to admitting that most of the stuff in your previous post was wrong, then that's fine. Who have pushed shockeyy and why are there no posts in your filter in actually trying to figure out what that means? Or if there are please do point me out to them. On May 03 2020 00:30 Jockmcplop wrote:So the people who voted shockeyy are slam, trfel and rayn. Rayn voted him because he didn't like shockeyy trying to lynch koshi, but rayn also backed down pretty quickly and went for people he was more strongly scumreading (some town points to rayn for this by the way). Slam's reason seems to be about a beef with shockeyy and the way shockeyy has called him mafia alot. I'm using a particular post slam made to me about it for reference as to slam's reasoning. Trfel seems like rayn, kind of not really bothered about lynching shockeyy: On May 01 2020 02:50 Trfel wrote:
##unvote
##vote ShoCkeyy
Underwhelming filter. I like Vivax's (?) point about ShoCkeyy saying he voted Koshi only for a pressure vote, but also saying that Koshi's opening was a mafia opening. He's yet to give any other reasons to suspect Koshi. And more importantly, he's just saying recently "I like GlowingBear more than Koshi" while voting for Alakaslam, while GlowingBear is leading the lynch and Koshi or Alakaslam aren't really in contention.
Not sold on it but maybe it'll work? Possibly just seeing what would happen with the wagon if he voted there. His point about saying he voted koshi for a pressure vote and also saying koshi's opening was mafia is the only thing i agree looks bad here. I disagree with drawing conclusions from how shockeyy was voting slam while GB was up for lynch. I don't think that looks bad on shockeyy and he never showed interest in particularly trying to save GB, but was voting for a scumread. I still think shockeyy is town here. I just can't see any case for him being mafia except his early thing with the read on koshi, and that's nowhere near enough to scumread him when his reads have been consistent, and consistent with his voting also. I thin you're town and i think you're tunnelled. The stuff you say i haven't posted i have actually posted you are just blind to it because you think i'm scum. This is such a townie rayn trait that there's no way i can do anything but townread you for it. If you're going to keep tunnelling like this i'm going to stop responding because unless you are willing listen to what i'm saying and read my filter with an open mind there's no point in me talking to you. I never "pushed" shockeyy. Trfel hardly pushed shockeyy. The only person who pushed Shockeyy was slam. Other than that, let's say you actually think me and trfel pushed shockeyy. Why does shockeyy being whatever change your opinion on "a lot of players" (that's literally what you said) because you already think both of me and trfel are town? Like if shockeyy is mafia we are more town? How does that change anything?
If shockeyy is town, slam, koshi and vivax and to a lesser extent trfel are all suspects.
You say you never pushed shockeyy but you voted for him. Was that an accident or something?
I don't think trfel is town any more really. At first i did but i find his play very underwhelming and not really in a townie way.
And yeah, you're right, I could go and look at GB's filter myself, but its trfel's case and he wanted opinions on it so he can go find the quotes given that he already knows exactly where they are and what he's referring to.
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On May 03 2020 20:31 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 20:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 03 2020 20:26 Chezinu wrote:
I tried so hard to get mafia to shoot me last night... I think that I am done roleplaying. Only Grack cared. That is why he is town. wait, why did you want mafia to shoot you if you visited Vivax last night? STOP IT!!! LET ME TROLL CLAIM!!!!
oh
##:unvote
## vote: slam
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On May 03 2020 20:32 Chezinu wrote:
##: unvote
##vote: Trfel
aww jock no fun...
Its Sunday. No fun on Sundays.
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On May 03 2020 20:42 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 20:14 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 03 2020 20:08 Vivax wrote:On May 03 2020 20:01 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 03 2020 19:59 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
Jock who do you want to lynch?
What is this entire conversation about? Do you want to find mafia? My PoE currently: Slam Koshi Chezinu Trfel Vivax I'm in your PoE? Trfel? Yep. I think you've been pretty scummy except for your meta which makes me doubt my read on you. I really hate the push against rayn, and shockeyy for that matter. I can't just ignore that stuff because you are posting enough to be town vivax. Trfel is basically a null read which puts him in my PoE. I have alot of townreads and people i won't lynch this game. Trfel never did anything to make me think he's town. He's making cases but they are all kind of weak. Doesn't make him mafia, but stops me from townreading him. If you found my push on rayn weird I'd expect you to mention it somewhere before, because it's quite a hipster read to have. I'm also not in your scum list from your previous post. Dunno, I find your poe hard to believe. It's like you're reading a different game.
My PoE includes null and scum because I have more townreads than scumreads. You/trfel/chez are more null than scummy but you're in the PoE because my only scumreads are slam and koshi (i'm doubting my koshi read now even) and that's not enough scum for a team.
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On May 03 2020 20:01 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2020 19:59 Vivax wrote:
##Unvote
Jock who do you want to lynch?
What is this entire conversation about? Do you want to find mafia? My PoE currently: Slam
KoshiChezinu Trfel Vivax
On May 03 2020 20:00 Jockmcplop wrote:
##vote: alakaslam
Its between slam and koshi. I think on balance slam is slightly more likely to flip red. I just can't see any game solving and there's a lot of showing off with very little substance.
Rayn why are you townreading koshi? His EoD 1 still looks really bad to me, and his unconditional TR of FF looks worse.
On May 03 2020 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##unvote
##vote jockmcplop
On May 03 2020 21:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
How about we vote for Slam Koshi?
On May 03 2020 21:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay so Koshi is either mafia or being very stupid here.
lol
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On May 01 2020 03:53 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2020 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why do people so hard want to ruin the game every single fucking time i am town? Ignore it. Maybe he does it as mafia.
On May 01 2020 20:35 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2020 20:31 Jockmcplop wrote:+ Show Spoiler +If this is suggesting koshi/shockeyy mafia I don't think so. Shockeyy's hard scumread on koshi is too much for early bussing imo. Otherwise I think the best part of this case is here: + Show Spoiler +Mild "don't lynch Kurumi" post. Feels so mild-mannered for Koshi, who is usually such an aggressive poster. He doesn't seem to care much about who gets lynched between GlowingBear, his super scumread, and Kurumi, his townread. Tells raynpelikoneet to keep voting for Kurumi while sticking on GlowingBear himself Its really hard to parse town motivation from these two posts. It looks like there's a contradiction, like don't townread kurumi for that post he made but we shouldn't lynch him but don't stop voting him based on that post. If you didn't want kurumi lynched, your objective should be to stop town from lynching him. why would you tell rayn to ignore that post and suggest that kurumi might be mafia for posting it? Kurumi cheated and deserved to die. You shouldnt talk about getting replaced and shit like that. It's 99% times town being truthful over mafia doing a very dirty trick.
On May 03 2020 21:33 Koshi wrote:
You stabbed me in the back and went for kurumi and the people in your pockets.
##vote: koshi
Better get some votes on shockeyy then koshi 
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On May 05 2020 05:40 Chezinu wrote:
##vote Jockmcplop
On May 05 2020 15:01 Chezinu wrote:
Mafia suspects:
6. Vivax
9. Koshi
12. Trfel
7. Alakaslam
8. Jockmcplop
Not even a hint in your filter of this before today. It came out of nowhere, even for you.
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On May 05 2020 15:14 Trfel wrote:Hi Jockmcplop Are you feeling better/have you recovered okay?
Yes I feel alot better thanks Pretty exhausted cos I can't sleep at the moment but just about keeping it together lol.
I'm sorry to hear about your depression. I went through that for over ten years and it still haunts me every day but we get through it. I hope you keep playing after the lockdowns are over, its always a pleasure.
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On May 05 2020 15:17 Chezinu wrote:
Do you really believe that rayn checked Grack, the same person I checked Night 1?
Unless I'm missing something.. yeah.
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At the moment
town:
Jock
Grack
GB
null:
slam
Mafia
chez
koshi
vivax/trfel
I'm starting to think slam is town. He's still null rather than a townread, but his tone today isn't one that I can see in his mafia meta and i've looked at all of his mafia games in the archive. He's annoyed and sounds defeated, which i didn't see at all in his meta. He's also been quick to take things personally the whole game and I don't see that much in his mafia meta either.
Can I ask why everyone is quick to TR chez? I know he has claimed again but he has claimed like three or four times different roles this game. Why do you believe him unconditionally now with no evidence when you didn't believe him before. It looks more like PR hunting to me.
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On May 05 2020 15:42 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2020 15:36 Jockmcplop wrote:
At the moment
town:
Jock
Grack
GB
null:
slam
Mafia
chez
koshi
vivax/trfel
I'm starting to think slam is town. He's still null rather than a townread, but his tone today isn't one that I can see in his mafia meta and i've looked at all of his mafia games in the archive. He's annoyed and sounds defeated, which i didn't see at all in his meta. He's also been quick to take things personally the whole game and I don't see that much in his mafia meta either.
Can I ask why everyone is quick to TR chez? I know he has claimed again but he has claimed like three or four times different roles this game. Why do you believe him unconditionally now with no evidence when you didn't believe him before. It looks more like PR hunting to me.
In all honesty? I see no reason to lynch Chezinu now. I think there's a pretty good chance he's a role, he may not be, but there is no counterclaim. There are almost certainly two town power roles in the game, I haven't seen a game with only one (of 12-13 player size) well, ever. If Chezinu is mafia, his play is bound to be found out as soon as someone else claims, so it's not a good play to make. This means that Chezinu is very likely a town power role, and very likely town. The clincher is that it's not town's problem, it's mafia's problem. Town can wait until there is one mafia left to worry about Chezinu, if it comes down to it. Since he's likely a role, mafia can't wait. They have to figure out how to deal with him sooner. So it's best to keep him alive I know, not the answer you wanted to hear, but it's the best I can do.
I would maybe start worrying about it now.
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Given that if you lynch me its game over.
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On May 05 2020 21:16 Vivax wrote:
Yo.
So, Jock, here we are.
##Vote Jock
As you might have figured out yesterday, I have some issues with some reads of yours.
Last day you had Trfel and me in your PoE, today also but now you're saying we're mutually exclusively mafia. The reasoning for that is nowhere to be seen. Adding a / is convenient when you're limiting yourself to three scumreads, I can understand that, but it's just lazy.
In theory, you are now in a spot where you can singlehandedly save town. Everyone reads your posts. What do you do? You post a list and kinda say 'meh but if I die town loses'.
If I were in your spot I'd be on a crusade right now to lynch my scumreads, I'd try to find every single scummy fucker on my wagon and call them out. But we get a meek list with poorly explained reads and somehow I'm mafia with Chez even though we're on the same page with thinking that his play this game has just been blue hunting.
Also, he's claiming a roleblock. Question to everyone: Did anyone get roleblocked N1? I went back and looked through every single post after N1 which was a massive pain in the butt and I can assure you I didn't spot any roleblock, unless Jock put one in a spoiler.
So here's my problem: Chez is basically coming at mylo, pretended not-so-subtly to be blue all game long, didn't get shot, and after N2 claims that there's a mafia roleblocker that didn't do anything N1.
To add insult to injury, Shockeyy said he was masoned with someone who was roleplaying and who he thought was Chez, and that mason is almost guaranteed to be mafia because he didn't claim to confirm Shockeyy's claim.
So Jock, I am mafia with Chez?
Can we all take a minute to marvel at the mental gymnastics going on in this post?
1: Vivax suggesting he can't be mafia with chez because he thinks that chez was blue hunting and said so earlier in the thread.
2: I also think chez was blue hunting, as i said earlier in the thread.
3: Vivax says that because of this, I am mafia with Chez.
Why the double standard on this? I assume you think I am bussing Chez, but you seem angry that I think the same about you.
If chez is confirmed scum in your eyes then lynch chez. If you are less sure about me kill me tomorrow, maybe you will realize before that that i'm town. This stuff about you'd rather not buy time isn't sensible. If you're town its really not sensible. Why aren't you buying more time to see if another confirmed scum is revealed? Why not kill the confirmed scum and see what information comes from the night kill to narrow things down?
If we kill chez we're out of mylo (maths check please, anyone) and then we have a mislynch to play with. I'm surprised you didn't factor this into your calculations vivax.
So with regards to lynching me vs lynching chez, easier is not better, unless you are scum of course.
And yeah, chez is definitely mafia here. Like go back and look at his roleplaying posts earlier. Were any of them designed to get a reaction of any kind from anyone, or were they just stuff written in the thread? I expect much better than that from chez, especially with RPing which he seems to enjoy. To me it looks like he felt he had to roleplay here but didn't have any townie purpose behind it at all, and didn't even try to garner any reads out of it (despite a vague assertion that trfel wouldn't normally spot a hint that was never explained), instead using it to try and get reactions from blues.
With regards to you/trfel being mutually exclusive, I have mafia spots 1 & 2 taken by chez and koshi, so the third is up for grabs. Unfortunately all of the other contestants had to drop out due to obligations to the town, but you and trfel still get to compete for the prize, don't worry.
And as for your poking me to be super active and all over the thread (on a crusade) I can't play like that any more I just don't have the mental energy for it. I mostly make longer but less frequent posts now and that's the way its gonna be.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The biggest question I have to answer right now is whether I would lynch Vivax with chez. My feeling is that no I wouldn't join a lynch that chez has proposed more than once or shown particular interest in.
I find Vivax's reasoning over the last page to be very poor and if I had to say why it would have something to do with the ease with which he can lynch me, guilt free, without taking responsibility for it. That could be, and likely is, mafia motivated.
Chezinu outright blaming rayn for his vote being on me without providing reasoning other than 'rayn said so', while having me saying i'm his last option for scum, is very similar, but much worse.
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On May 06 2020 13:58 Chezinu wrote:
##Vote: Jockmcplop
Then we slam Koshi!
If we lose, we blame rayn
There is no 'then'
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New reads:
trfel vivax chez
or
trfel vivax koshi
trfel's done a fantastic job of convincing everyone to go with his scumread and ignore what people are doing in the thread (koshi, vivax).
How? Just flood the thread with 'lynch jock' at the exact moment that people start thinking about why koshi and vivax put their votes where they did! Look at the timing, look at how dismissive he is of vivax and koshi's bad voting. I'm putting those two together here even though vivax's vote was worse imo.
Look how he takes advantage of rayn's death to immediately vote me on day 3. Why? Because its the last vote he needs to place, he's excited about the win. Why would he be excited? Because killing rayn and then me is the plan to win and at that point its going off without a hitch. It still is.
Does trfel seem even remotely nervous that town is following him into what could be the end of the game for town (from town trfel's perspective)? No. All he wants is to get rid of me, and he isn't thinking about anything else.
It looks like he's tunnelling (as he's very happy to point out) but its not tunnelling its distraction.
How can't you see that this is all soooooooo mafia?
also
I can actually see koshi being town here, which is interesting given i've scumread him all game and his vote was even scummier than anything else he's done, but he isn't here trying to push an agenda like trfel is, and he doesn't seem bothered about getting the mislynch (or the game at all).
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On May 06 2020 15:55 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2020 15:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 06 2020 13:58 Chezinu wrote:
##Vote: Jockmcplop
Then we slam Koshi!
If we lose, we blame rayn There is no 'then' Out of all of the people you could quote and say this to, why do you choose your biggest scumread? Shouldn't he already know this? :/
I have new reads because of the new information in the thread (strange, i know)
Also I can quote anyone i want. You're trying too hard
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EPT
