On April 07 2020 06:23 Hapahauli wrote:BloodyCobber looks the worst to me for three reasons:
1) As I mentioned on Day 1, his Shockey read was pulled out of his ass, and is inconsistent with his approach to the game and general townie paranoia.
2) His behavior around
Jock and the lynch, at face value, are very pro-Mafia.
3) His post activity surrounding
Jock are again, at face value, consistent with an uncoordinated and unsophisticated mafia team.
The Read on ShockeyI'm just going to re-summarize my case for the sake of completeness, and hopefully give some people who were discounting my initial words some more clarity on
why I felt as strongly as I did.
Playing as
mafia is about creating an illusion of contribution. Contributing to discussion without actually contributing. Taking bold and hard stances without actually taking a risk. Covering your interactions with your partner
just enough to avoid suspicion, while allowing you to coordinate with each other towards mafia objectives.
In addition, mafia also play with extra information. They
know who's town. Whereas townies often display paranoia, since they are constantly uncertain, especially in the early game.
With these two points in mind, take a look at BC's read list.
Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 15:18 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Town
Bloodyc0bbler
Leaning town
Shockeyy
Jockmcplop
Null
Chezinu
Rayn
Rels
Lean scum
Vivax
Scum
Trfel
Hapa
Firstly, considering
what Shockey had done until this point in the game, a slight-town read is not consistent with a paranoid town mindset. Take a look at Shockey's filter and look from the beginning to post #117. There's very little in there. So much so that multiple players were making remarks that Shockey was just coasting along and not contributing much. BC later even acknowledges this and re-bumps Shockey down to null, likely in an attempt to save face (spoilerized below).
Instead, his first read list is consistent with a mafia-mindset who knows that Shockey is town, and is naturally not-all-that-suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 06 2020 05:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
The how is purely I didnt find his entrance as jarring mixed with people i had scum reads focusing him.
ATM id drop him down to Rels / Chez territory of null read.
Here I will update my lists for you
Town
Bloodyc0bbler
Lean Town
Rayn
Vivax
Null
Rels
Shockeyy
Chezinu
Lean scum
Jock
trfel
Scum
Hapa
There is a world (with how you are currently being active) where I could see my read on you being wrong. So please keep up the posting =)
Secondly, and as explained before, the whole rationale behind the read is contrived bullshit. For that, we need to look at the "story" that BloodyCobbler is trying to tell about his town play.
BloodyCobber is telling the story that he is reading player filters for the content that they are posting. He considers "substanceless" posting indicative of a mafia tell. Examples are abound:
Regarding his scumread on me (Hapa):
Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 15:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
His posts scream posting for sake of posting. Asking questions is great, but only if followed by content. I dont like what ive seen thus far.
Interesting question though ;p
On Trefel:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 19:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On April 05 2020 18:53 Vivax wrote:On April 05 2020 18:22 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On April 05 2020 18:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2020 15:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 05 2020 15:07 Trfel wrote:On phone and in bed, so not going to quote you Jockmcplop, hope that's okay.
I don't care about Vivax townreading me because I don't care too much about townreads in general (especially at this stage in the game) and I thought I knew why he was townreading me (since he later explained why, it turns out I was only partially correct, ah well).
I don't really know how to respond to the rest of your post so let me know if I missed something. But it seems that a key point is my "case's" first point on raynpelikoneet. It's not that he has an implied read that is suspicious, it's that the implied/joke read changes.
Townies usually approach mafia from two perspectives: treat everyone as town until there is reason to suspect otherwise, or treat everyone as suspicious until they show otherwise. Raynpelikoneet's posts don't fit in either mindset.That said, if I'm being honest, it's not a strong point at all and we all know this. I'm saying it's the most suspicious thing at that point in the game. Why'd I bring it up then, so people like you have something to talk about! I'd say it worked perfectly
hmm...
i quite like this logic even if I don't agree.
This is the post that made me change my mind. There are many many ways to attack this post in case Jock wants to do that, especially since i don't do any of what Trfel says here. Furthermore even if i did, it's no way of comparing that narrative to my early posting because i posted a joke and a bait to you. No reads lol.
TBH the post jock quoted here (especially the bolded part) is a reason i have a scum read on trfel atm.
Why does the bolded part make Trfel mafia?
What does it add to the thread? How is it helping us progress towards catching someone who is scum? What point does explaining how the game should be played, in relation to a player whos playstyle is a known quantity, to justify a hard stance read this early in the game?
Like, I havent played seriously for years, but
what he posted is shit mafia have done for ages to try and blend in. Talking about how one should or shouldn't play makes you look like you are providing useful content when its instead just fluff. If you take into consideration how hard he also was defending himself / reacting to general suspicion so early into the game gives me the read I have.
His stuff on Vivax is especially damning:
Show nested quote +On April 05 2020 18:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On April 05 2020 18:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
BC i don't really think there is much chance of Vivax being mafia.
Its why I have him as a scum lean. Play I dislike / view as bad (not saying it is the wrong way to play just that i dont like it) makes me lower you down until you do something that stands out. I am merely waiting for it. He has been more active since my original read, but he still needs to give real content to the thread.
... this post on vivax is suggestive that his "method" of early-game tells is just to look for people who seem "contentless" and re-evaluate them as the game goes on. He is willing to cast suspicion on play that he "dislike[s] / view[s] as bad" early on.
Given this mentality of reading for "substanceless posting", it is then
inconceivable from a town-BC perspective that he would read Shockey's filter and come out with slightly town. Again, see Shockeyy's filter to post #117:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/558350-holy-guardians-chapter-2?user=ShoCkeyyThere is NO. FUCKING. WAY. That he could genuinely read Shockey as having any substance. Therefore his read is bullshit. Mafia attempting to contribute bullshit reads, and thereby not contributing. Playing with extra information, and therefore
knowing that Shockey is town rather than being suspicious of him.
EPT
