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On July 04 2019 16:39 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 15:59 Trfel wrote:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Eversince I noticed you'd just discussed it right after I posted. Can I ask what in particular you liked about Holyflare's reasoning?
I went through Holyflare's filter and there's some stuff I don't like but I'm not sure what it means. Need to think more.
Holyflare, why do you think Pandain is town? Or do you still? What do you think about Grackaroni? Elaborate. I've lost my read on Pandain after the deadline slightly. It was more the interaction with Jock and myself with him there calming jock down with reasonable assumptions that made me town read him but I realise this can be someone trying to pocket me with perfect information.
Where are you on rayn currently hf (other than the fact he voted for someone you also think is scum)?
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On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded.
ES did exactly the same in the last game as town.
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On July 04 2019 17:23 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 17:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 17:22 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure ES doesnt make afk excuses based purely on her filter size. No she makes plenty of them and then responds to points which is imo worse because it looks like an excuse to leave at any point. It's unnecessary and a bad habit for mafia. Either way it reinvigorated my want to lynch her until she actually responded. ES did exactly the same in the last game as town. Do you think I pay attention to people I don't scum read?
Maybe you should, then you would notice stuff like this and it wouldn't look like you're trying to force things.
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[B]On July 04 2019 17:40 Holyflare wrote:
[b]You are misrepresenting things entirely. You're picking and choosing what I say and ignoring the perfectly valid reasons for why I did them just to say "lol because of an afk excuse over grack!" which is not what I did in the slightest.
Then you acknowledge I never actually dropped it because of grack's posts so what you're doing is in fact misrepresenting the "facts" entirely.
Very bad look for you pandain. What is even the point behind your read here? That I voted someone over someone else or what? That I didn't vote grack so I'm mafia because?
Either I told the truth or in some way I lied but you've never said my motivation for lying at any point so the only option left is truth.
This is exactly how argued with me about the eywa thing yesterday.
You said eywa was behaving differently.
You scum read ES partly because you said eywa was acting exactly the same.
Then when I point it out its "WELL OBVIOUSLY EYWA IS EXACTLY THE SAME EXCEPT FOR WHEN EYWA IS DIFFERENT YOU MUST BE SCUM TO KEEP GOING ON ABOUT THIS WHEN I'VE EXPLAINED IT".
as if its obvious to everyone that you're being completely reasonable when actually you are posting nonsense. I can see why people fall for it.
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On July 04 2019 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did ES ever post "afk excuses" before this game and if she did, why didnt you care about it enough to add it to your case earlier HF?
I literally just went to the last game and found 8 examples in the first couple of pages of ES's filter of her mentioning that she was leaving the thread or not going to be int he thread for much longer. In some of those, she stays around for a bit and then leaves.
To me, that just says that she loves playing mafia and has to tear herself away from it and convince herself to leave.
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On July 04 2019 18:05 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 18:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 04 2019 18:01 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did ES ever post "afk excuses" before this game and if she did, why didnt you care about it enough to add it to your case earlier HF? I have literally no idea, it's just something I see skimming through the thread. You're conflating the reasoning anyway! I just think it's a bad reentry post to make when there are multiple points against you and you're the leading wagon. But didnt you say shes been doing that continuously? Every time I skim the thread I see something like "oh gtg bye!" yes. Whether she does it all the time or does it as town I don't know nor really care. Nothing to do with her afk excuse is the sole reason I'm scum reading her. It's probably about the lowest reason I can think of. It was a good enough reason for me to want to keep pressure on her until she answered my points though.
Was it a good enough reason to literally try and kill her instead of grack at a vital moment?
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On July 04 2019 18:08 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 18:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 18:05 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 18:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 04 2019 18:01 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did ES ever post "afk excuses" before this game and if she did, why didnt you care about it enough to add it to your case earlier HF? I have literally no idea, it's just something I see skimming through the thread. You're conflating the reasoning anyway! I just think it's a bad reentry post to make when there are multiple points against you and you're the leading wagon. But didnt you say shes been doing that continuously? Every time I skim the thread I see something like "oh gtg bye!" yes. Whether she does it all the time or does it as town I don't know nor really care. Nothing to do with her afk excuse is the sole reason I'm scum reading her. It's probably about the lowest reason I can think of. It was a good enough reason for me to want to keep pressure on her until she answered my points though. Was it a good enough reason to literally try and kill her instead of grack at a vital moment? Are you intentionally dense? I had a mafia case on ES and it wasn't very close to deadline so, yes, it is a good reason to keep my vote on someone I think is mafia to force them to generate content?
Intentionally dense lol.
THAT'S THE NAME OF MY NEW BAND
So, and I'm sorry that you've explained all of this over the course of about 25 different posts but I'm trying to get it all in order so I know exactly what you are saying and cna judge on those terms..
Way before deadline
You had a case on ES and were pushing
You said that you would probably prefer to kill grack but could kill either
You noticed ES was making afk excuses so you kept your vote on her to force her to generate content
Just before deadline
ES still generating content, arguing with you about your case on her
Grack still doing nothing, generating zero content.
About 15-20 minutes before deadline, the wagon on grack builds to the point where a single vote switch would kill grack instead of ES. You keep your vote on ES.
I'm not accusing you of anything here, but your arguments are difficult to follow so I'm trying to understand what you're saying.
At this point 15-20 minutes before deadline, exactly what was your reason for sticking with ES rather than switching to Grack, as you earlier indicated you would?
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On July 04 2019 18:28 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 18:15 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 18:08 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 18:07 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 18:05 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 18:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 04 2019 18:01 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 17:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Did ES ever post "afk excuses" before this game and if she did, why didnt you care about it enough to add it to your case earlier HF? I have literally no idea, it's just something I see skimming through the thread. You're conflating the reasoning anyway! I just think it's a bad reentry post to make when there are multiple points against you and you're the leading wagon. But didnt you say shes been doing that continuously? Every time I skim the thread I see something like "oh gtg bye!" yes. Whether she does it all the time or does it as town I don't know nor really care. Nothing to do with her afk excuse is the sole reason I'm scum reading her. It's probably about the lowest reason I can think of. It was a good enough reason for me to want to keep pressure on her until she answered my points though. Was it a good enough reason to literally try and kill her instead of grack at a vital moment? Are you intentionally dense? I had a mafia case on ES and it wasn't very close to deadline so, yes, it is a good reason to keep my vote on someone I think is mafia to force them to generate content? Intentionally dense lol. THAT'S THE NAME OF MY NEW BAND So, and I'm sorry that you've explained all of this over the course of about 25 different posts but I'm trying to get it all in order so I know exactly what you are saying and cna judge on those terms.. Way before deadline You had a case on ES and were pushing You said that you would probably prefer to kill grack but could kill either You noticed ES was making afk excuses so you kept your vote on her to force her to generate content Just before deadline ES still generating content, arguing with you about your case on her Grack still doing nothing, generating zero content. About 15-20 minutes before deadline, the wagon on grack builds to the point where a single vote switch would kill grack instead of ES. You keep your vote on ES. I'm not accusing you of anything here, but your arguments are difficult to follow so I'm trying to understand what you're saying. At this point 15-20 minutes before deadline, exactly what was your reason for sticking with ES rather than switching to Grack, as you earlier indicated you would? Well you're missing the entirety of the posts ES was posting so, yes. It wasn't "content" it was more reasons for me to keep my vote on her.
OK well this makes more sense, if the afk thing was reason for keeping your vote on her, and because you kept your vote on her at that point she then made more posts that cause you to want her dead instead of grack.
I found that really hard to extract from all the posts you've made today, that's why i need a simple summary like this.
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On July 04 2019 21:11 Grackaroni wrote:
Pandain you're going to get shot.
I think he might be ok
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Mafia won't shoot me surely.
I couldn't have had a dumber day 1 if i'd tried.
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On July 04 2019 21:26 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 21:25 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:24 Holyflare wrote:On July 04 2019 21:22 Grackaroni wrote:On July 04 2019 21:21 Pandain wrote:
Grack why do you think I'd get shot? Because you're being townie and you won't get lynched. Whoa there, that's completely the opposite. lol are you pushing Pandain? I didn't read yet between after the lynch and now. Perhaps you should get to doing that then because his push tonight was completely bat shit insane.
It absolutely wasn't bat shit insane.
Your posts are actually quite hard to follow (because you tend to make a point over the course of a bunch of pages and expect people to follow exactly the same train of thought as you) and it always makes you look somewhat mafia regardless of your alignment. You probably know this already yourself. I haven't played a game yet where you have been confirmed town from your post content alone (ie without game mechanics confirming it for you).
Why do you think there's so much argument about things you have/haven't said already? Its because you make it really difficult by always having the big picture message buried somewhat between the lines and then pull it out later as if it was obvious all along.
So when you say things like 'his push was bat shit insane' and other stuff you say about how obvious it is that you're right and other people aren't and how stupid everyone else it, it might be worth wondering whether its everyone else being stupid or the fact that you are obscuring the simplicity of your points for some unknown reason.
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On July 04 2019 21:39 Eywa- wrote:
I actually agree with most of the case against HolyFlare by the way, I just can't get past the fact that we dodged an ES lynch to hammer our PR. I was kind of leaning ES (if town) -> HF...
But obviously the counter wagon screwed that plan. Now, I'm in a rough spot, because the element of "what do I allow people to get away with" comes into it. I think if Jock is scum for instance, he needs to be lynched... So I might weigh a little bit less purely on reads and a bit more on "what if" and who deserves death.
You do you eywa, but I can't see you managing to convince anyone to vote with you on a townread because you feel like they deserve to die.
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Rayn what are your thoughts on trfel?
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On July 04 2019 22:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
Rayn what are your thoughts on trfel?
I only ask because the last time you mentioned him you said you could lynch him but then a few minutes later said you didn't think he was mafia so I'm just trying to get straight on where you are on that.
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On July 04 2019 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 22:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
Rayn what are your thoughts on trfel? I think he did his town thing on the post on HF. 
Cool, thanks I'll go check it out and see if I can learn something
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On July 04 2019 22:20 Eversince wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2019 22:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 04 2019 22:17 Jockmcplop wrote:
Rayn what are your thoughts on trfel? I only ask because the last time you mentioned him you said you could lynch him but then a few minutes later said you didn't think he was mafia so I'm just trying to get straight on where you are on that. Woahhhh where was this?? I completely miss it!
#364 & #374
Its not alignment indicative, and this wasn't an accusation, I was just a little confused as to where he stood on it. The context of what he was saying at the time means you can't really read it as a contradiction.
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I still think the way trfel writes the following point is actually really good:
To me this is the strongest point. About two and a half hours before the lynch, Holyflare says that he would slightly prefer lynching Grackaroni over Eversince:
On July 04 2019 01:54 Holyflare wrote:
If I had to choose between Grack or ES for a lynch I'd probably choose grack tbh. His filter is void of literally aby content. People are town, he guesses I could maybe be mafia. Es is town because of bathtub? Drunk posting that doesn't even look drunk?
Dumb and probably mafia.
Day 1 vote count
Vote Count, Eight Minutes to EoD
Eversince: (5) raynpelikoneet, Eywa-, Holyflare, Conversion, Grackaroni
Grackaroni: (4) Trfel, Pandain, jockmcplop, Eversince
If Holyflare changed his vote to Grackaroni, Grackaroni would be lynched instead of Eversince. Let's assume that Eversince's posts and discussion with Holyflare caused Holyflare to change his mind and prefer lynching Eversince to lynching Grackaroni. But even still, Holyflare very obviously preferred lynching Grackaroni to lynching anyone else. With obvious shenanigans coming (evidence to follow), Holyflare here could either: push hard for an Eversince lynch to try and make sure he gets his preferred lynch, or vote for Grackaroni, a lynch he is happy with, to prevent shenanigans off of his preferred lynch targets.
Posts in the thread in the last eight minutes of Day 1, making it clear that shenanigans were incoming:
On July 04 2019 04:24 Pandain wrote:
I'm strongly for a Conv lynch (if Grack won't get lynched) just because I have town reads on everyone except Grack and him.
Jock is way too active. Rayn is way too active. HF could be scum but seems townie.
Trfel is playing like his town games. Eywa was really townie with his exhcnage with me.
Who else wants to lynch Conv (or grack)
On July 04 2019 04:26 Jockmcplop wrote:
Pandain switch to conversion with me
On July 04 2019 04:26 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
I switched.
Who else wants to join?
On July 04 2019 04:27 Pandain wrote:
If ES and Trfel switch ES is saved
Grack vote conv
Instead of voting for Grackaroni or persuading people not to switch votes, Holyflare argues with Eversince, accomplishing neither of these goals. He does make one post directed to the thread as a whole:
On July 04 2019 04:29 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
Because I know you tools will do some stupid shit and she won't get lynched.
But if he really wanted to prevent the shenanigans and the Conversion lynch, it would have been much more effective to push for Eversince and talk to the people present, instead of arguing with his extremely strong scumread. Holyflare carries a lot of influence and generally gets his way in mafia games, but here it feels like he just kinda let it happen.
I understand what you are saying hf when you say that you didn't switch to grack because ES was making more mafia posts at the end of the day, right, making you determined to kill ES? (this makes sense out of context of the timing of events)
Here's the thing... flashback to 15 minutes before deadline and votes are going down left right and center. You know what you're doing and are normally quite insistent that you get your way, but there was no discussion at all about other people's votes at this point. I would expect you to be at least trying to stop the shenanigans or join in so you have some measure of control over what happens..
So were you distracted by arguing with ES, did you not see all the votes go in or were you just not really bothered who got lynched?
Sorry if you already explained this.
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On July 04 2019 22:38 Eywa- wrote:
I hope we lose.
I HAD NOTICED
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On July 05 2019 04:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
##vote Eversince
You seem keen to get on with it...
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EPT
