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On January 19 2018 05:10 darthfoley wrote:
I need to reread Damerion's back and forth with Damdred, but it felt like a "trust me dude" meta read which isn't a lot to go on unless he was trying to bait a reaction. On the other hand, Damdred pulling a BTDT and being a little dramatic is not what I would expect from Damdred over a simple accusation on D1.
So basically I don't know.
Mocsta can still be scum though.
Makes him most likely town actually.
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I think my phone is now cutting off sentences or in posting too sleepily :/
DF reason to post first post not clear to me.
Want to lynch HF for difficult to explain reasons. I think it's mostly a sense of leechyness, like he's a mind parasite adding bottom but etting some things on and kissing in others. Both of which he can also do as an active player but usually with his own thoughts actually mixed in. I also know that lynching him is like pulling teeth, especially on day one.
How do you expect me to have a conversation with Damdred when we werent around at the same time, Rels?
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Blah phone posting. HF is adding nothing while egging some things on and pissing on others. Which if he is scum and that's a lovely ego stroke to catch him early, is super interesting.
Dismissing suspicion on df, throwing inscrutable shade on mocsta, cheering on a Damdred lynch that would probably be a town lynch.
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:/ no one is around for my pre-bed catch up
Meh
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On January 19 2018 07:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I will try to organise my thoughts in a concise why.
Main issue is the damdred discussion. The impression I get is that damerion has a meta read that he is very proud of but in those situations you have to be careful not to get too excited and see the read everywhere. I think this may be the case, especially with how early he came out with it. I believe damerion mentioned damdred going on df with "ferocity". That's where he lost if for me. I didn't see damdred being ferocious at all. In fact I didn't feel he was really pushing a scum read that hard.
I don't know where I have damdred, he has done things I like and things I don't like. For damerion...Is he misguided overeager town or scum...probably over eager town.
I think Twaty and rsoultin are both town. I've agreed with most everything that Tina has said and I knew she would like costa. They both post in similair style. Costa's enthusiasm is enough for a tone read pass D1.
my scummy reads come from people who agree on the damdred wagon when they should probably know better. I think hf questioning damdred on his df and costa both being scum was bad. To me that was a guy giving two people who in his opinion have made questionable posts. Not considering partners at that stage. Rels is similar as a guy who has popped up with some one liners and then latched onto this damdred read.
I don't like Mderg I think his disappointment at the thread felt fake and his 10 page hf point was not my experience of hf at all. In general I have disagreed with almost everything he said apart from his agreement that damerion is just too aggro. So I could see Mderg knowing both damdred and damerion are town and trying to get some credit later...maybe im just biased with that .
Right now i'd lynch HF, rels, Mderg and prplhz because his 2 day afk is just bullshit.
I like kmatt but just because his 4d chess comment was really funny.
Sorry this turned into a ramble.
God I spoke too soon. ♡! I just want to townread you forever for the awful reason of being in my headspace, even on things I haven't commented on. Or not so awful reason.
Do I finally get a game with an active town ksc again?
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On January 19 2018 07:14 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 07:12 rsoultin wrote:
Blah phone posting. HF is adding nothing while egging some things on and pissing on others. Which if he is scum and that's a lovely ego stroke to catch him early, is super interesting.
Dismissing suspicion on df, throwing inscrutable shade on mocsta, cheering on a Damdred lynch that would probably be a town lynch. How have I added nothing? I started this damdred train and I dislike Mocsta's posts because he STILL has added nothing to the game. Damdred has basically confirmed himself mafia in my eyes. You don't agree with the call out and downplay it as if he noticed it. No way on earth.
-snorts- damerion started the Damdred train. And your point is honestly retarded if you actually believe it. You think scum Damdred says yes this meta point that only you've noticed or mentioned is right but I only now just changed it, rather than ignore it or shrug it off as wrong? It's not even that this is your argument, it's that you see it like a smoking gun, apparently.
And it wasn't even pointed out by you first.
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And okay you did say you still didn't like someone. I stand corrected -shrugs-
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On January 19 2018 07:24 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 07:17 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2018 07:12 KelsierSC wrote:
I will try to organise my thoughts in a concise why.
Main issue is the damdred discussion. The impression I get is that damerion has a meta read that he is very proud of but in those situations you have to be careful not to get too excited and see the read everywhere. I think this may be the case, especially with how early he came out with it. I believe damerion mentioned damdred going on df with "ferocity". That's where he lost if for me. I didn't see damdred being ferocious at all. In fact I didn't feel he was really pushing a scum read that hard.
I don't know where I have damdred, he has done things I like and things I don't like. For damerion...Is he misguided overeager town or scum...probably over eager town.
I think Twaty and rsoultin are both town. I've agreed with most everything that Tina has said and I knew she would like costa. They both post in similair style. Costa's enthusiasm is enough for a tone read pass D1.
my scummy reads come from people who agree on the damdred wagon when they should probably know better. I think hf questioning damdred on his df and costa both being scum was bad. To me that was a guy giving two people who in his opinion have made questionable posts. Not considering partners at that stage. Rels is similar as a guy who has popped up with some one liners and then latched onto this damdred read.
I don't like Mderg I think his disappointment at the thread felt fake and his 10 page hf point was not my experience of hf at all. In general I have disagreed with almost everything he said apart from his agreement that damerion is just too aggro. So I could see Mderg knowing both damdred and damerion are town and trying to get some credit later...maybe im just biased with that .
Right now i'd lynch HF, rels, Mderg and prplhz because his 2 day afk is just bullshit.
I like kmatt but just because his 4d chess comment was really funny.
Sorry this turned into a ramble. God I spoke too soon. ♡! I just want to townread you forever for the awful reason of being in my headspace, even on things I haven't commented on. Or not so awful reason. Do I finally get a game with an active town ksc again? Depends on how odious HF plans on being this game.
Well, if we're right and he's scum probably very? He's no fun to play with when he's scum because I can never get him lynched :/
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On January 19 2018 07:31 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 07:22 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2018 07:14 Holyflare wrote:On January 19 2018 07:12 rsoultin wrote:
Blah phone posting. HF is adding nothing while egging some things on and pissing on others. Which if he is scum and that's a lovely ego stroke to catch him early, is super interesting.
Dismissing suspicion on df, throwing inscrutable shade on mocsta, cheering on a Damdred lynch that would probably be a town lynch. How have I added nothing? I started this damdred train and I dislike Mocsta's posts because he STILL has added nothing to the game. Damdred has basically confirmed himself mafia in my eyes. You don't agree with the call out and downplay it as if he noticed it. No way on earth. -snorts- damerion started the Damdred train. And your point is honestly retarded if you actually believe it. You think scum Damdred says yes this meta point that only you've noticed or mentioned is right but I only now just changed it, rather than ignore it or shrug it off as wrong? It's not even that this is your argument, it's that you see it like a smoking gun, apparently. And it wasn't even pointed out by you first. I think he thinks Damerion is an extremely good player that caught him and he panic responded absolutely.
...I have no way to gauge the veracity of that as I don't know damerion from Adam and I agree that he looks confirmation biased, with whoever said that who I've forgotten.
I'm not even sure if you would believe Damdred could panic like that or not...I've never really seen that reaction from him that I can recall.
I don't think the read is right though and sont like your piggyback. I need you to genuinely play if you're town and stop being a lazy ass.
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On January 19 2018 07:55 Damdred wrote:
I dont think I have ever panicked from pressure as scum. If I have an example of that should be quite easy to find.
Also i dont believe that me trying to remove a word from my postings degrades my town game. I noticed something and changed it, big whoop.
I can disagree with how he is using a point and still agree that something is/was factually correct however.
tina and kel can enter the town pile and hf can get out of it. I do not think he can be this obtuse as town.
Hi sleepy tina
Hi Ian! My towny circle is making me a bit excited, like old times ^^ I think that I need to crash though...we're up in just over six hours. Want to discuss anything first?
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On January 19 2018 08:02 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 07:38 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2018 07:31 Holyflare wrote:On January 19 2018 07:22 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2018 07:14 Holyflare wrote:On January 19 2018 07:12 rsoultin wrote:
Blah phone posting. HF is adding nothing while egging some things on and pissing on others. Which if he is scum and that's a lovely ego stroke to catch him early, is super interesting.
Dismissing suspicion on df, throwing inscrutable shade on mocsta, cheering on a Damdred lynch that would probably be a town lynch. How have I added nothing? I started this damdred train and I dislike Mocsta's posts because he STILL has added nothing to the game. Damdred has basically confirmed himself mafia in my eyes. You don't agree with the call out and downplay it as if he noticed it. No way on earth. -snorts- damerion started the Damdred train. And your point is honestly retarded if you actually believe it. You think scum Damdred says yes this meta point that only you've noticed or mentioned is right but I only now just changed it, rather than ignore it or shrug it off as wrong? It's not even that this is your argument, it's that you see it like a smoking gun, apparently. And it wasn't even pointed out by you first. I think he thinks Damerion is an extremely good player that caught him and he panic responded absolutely. ...I have no way to gauge the veracity of that as I don't know damerion from Adam and I agree that he looks confirmation biased, with whoever said that who I've forgotten. I'm not even sure if you would believe Damdred could panic like that or not...I've never really seen that reaction from him that I can recall. I don't think the read is right though and sont like your piggyback. I need you to genuinely play if you're town and stop being a lazy ass. And like I said to the previous drivel that kelsier posted. How can you ever state the read is wrong when the player themselves acknowledged it's correct. I can't even fathom the mindset.
Because a fact can be correct without the conclusion being so. Saying that Damdred claimed the read was correct is inaccurate. Unless you're referring to what I thought to be clear sarcasm as a literal scum claim?
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On January 19 2018 08:10 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 08:01 rsoultin wrote:On January 19 2018 07:55 Damdred wrote:
I dont think I have ever panicked from pressure as scum. If I have an example of that should be quite easy to find.
Also i dont believe that me trying to remove a word from my postings degrades my town game. I noticed something and changed it, big whoop.
I can disagree with how he is using a point and still agree that something is/was factually correct however.
tina and kel can enter the town pile and hf can get out of it. I do not think he can be this obtuse as town.
Hi sleepy tina Hi Ian! My towny circle is making me a bit excited, like old times ^^ I think that I need to crash though...we're up in just over six hours. Want to discuss anything first? Well it can always wait till the A.M. I suppose. I tgink whats bugging me the most here and now is Rels attachment to the Damer led wagon. Usually he loves giving me time but hwre hes just ao ready to kill me. So unlike rels meh...
I'm a little wary of meta after not playing so long, especially with players I don't have the best track record on anyway. But Rels jumping on the wagon does seem opportunistic to me and I thought he usually puttered around more on d1 because he was insecure, if he showed up at all.
Anyway, I think I will go to sleep now, but feel free to leave any thoughts behind for my morning.
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On January 19 2018 08:34 prplhz wrote:
I have very little time who are you voting for rsoultin?
Holyflare most likely. Not Damdred. Probably not mocsta.
Realistically might have to consider other lynches.
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@mocsta...I know how this sounds to players who are relatively new, but expecting certain players to see things differently than others isn't strange. It's a function of playing with them enough to get an idea of how they think.
I'm not going to pretend that I'm infallible. Reading Damdred is something im good at, though. And I'm pretty confident he's town here.
If you put yourself in the shoes of someone thinking a town lynch is being pushed, and you see people jumping on the wagon for flimsy reasons that you believe to be beneath their town play, the natural conclusion then is that they're probably just scum.
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If my push on holyflare isn't all Fire and Brimstone! It at least in part is because I was hoping to finally roll town together and destroy scum with him :/ and not get too tunneled when my suspicions on him started early.
Can you read my attempt to explain my scumread on him earlier and give a fleshed opinion on him?
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Nevermind. You kind of did. What is this example of constructive prodding you mentioned?
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On January 19 2018 15:12 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 15:06 rsoultin wrote:
@mocsta...I know how this sounds to players who are relatively new, but expecting certain players to see things differently than others isn't strange. It's a function of playing with them enough to get an idea of how they think.
I'm not going to pretend that I'm infallible. Reading Damdred is something im good at, though. And I'm pretty confident he's town here.
If you put yourself in the shoes of someone thinking a town lynch is being pushed, and you see people jumping on the wagon for flimsy reasons that you believe to be beneath their town play, the natural conclusion then is that they're probably just scum. Welcome, however Im a bit confused here, because I cant tell if you are addressing me; or responding to a comment I wrote to ?Kelsier? As for the bold.. ppl jump on wagons all the time. I think its quite pointless to question the antics and sequences, unless a flip connected to the wagon has occured. With your damdred knowledge, as town, is he liable to use an appeal to emotion?
As town he gets emotional. As scum he has a hard time reproducing the feelings in his town game. It's unfair to call it an appeal to emotion when I happen to know it's not intentional and he actually was trying (at least at one point) to keep the emotion out of his town play.
And while I understand your assertion and obviously a flip provides more information, it's a legitimate way to get reads day 1. It's not what reads people have, but how they come to them that is the main focus.
That is why I think that holyflare is scum.
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On January 19 2018 15:17 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 15:11 rsoultin wrote:
Nevermind. You kind of did. What is this example of constructive prodding you mentioned? Show nested quote +On January 18 2018 17:18 Holyflare wrote:
...Also don't take mocsta's enthusiasm as towny. Looks pretty forced and says nothing. Show nested quote +On January 18 2018 21:36 Holyflare wrote:
On the train in I thought about taking back my Mocsta read and was gonna come in and announce that but his later posts still don't say anything other than trying to explain why his initial posts feel weird. He's defending himself instead of making the top tier reads. Don't like. Show nested quote +On January 18 2018 21:42 Holyflare wrote:
Why is mocsta slightly scummy anyway? Not explained it. Show nested quote +On January 18 2018 22:35 Holyflare wrote:
You just acknowledged he was correct lol. Show nested quote +On January 19 2018 04:56 Holyflare wrote:
Who are these people calling df scum? As a web of posts, I see an effort to provide small impetus. They arent meaningless posts, rather, they succinctly question the thought process. I dont think in any of these examples he is trying to exert/influence the recipients view point - rather open their thoughts. That is constructive prodding to me.
I can see why you think that. The first two were elicited by my engaging him, though. And you'll note he was singularly not constructive when I pressed for elaboration.
Then you have a request for an explanation, the post that led to his shit reason for scumreading Damdred the likes of which I've seen in previous scum games of his, and a pretty innocuous question.
I don't call that constructive. I call that lazy at best and shallow skating by at worst. You have to understand that holyflare is considered to be one of the best players on tl. And his push on Damdred in the context of this nothingness with shit reasoning clinches it for me.
Like I agree you look bad just defending yourself but your 'crazy' entrance that contributes nothing to a game that hasn't started yet with almost no one posting and you prodding people to respond to you should not be getting scum reads in my opinion. I don't like hf pointing at that. He takes my one slight townread and shits on it for poor reasons while not commenting on any of my other reads. he just made a joke about itch cream. That has obvious scum motivation if you know that I'm town.
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On January 19 2018 15:32 Mocsta wrote:
rsoultin, perhaps you have misunderstood "Appeal to Emotion"
I am at no point commenting of damdred becoming emotional. I am commenting on him plucking on the emotions of the thread to push his agenda.
Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence
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Re: wagon voters
Its not real pressure unless all town are voting. Last I checked, 5 voted, 8 did not vote.
There is no real pressure to be lynched at this stage...
Thus, I dont view assessing a non-flipped wagon on day1 as legitimate, because town and mafia are equally capable of jumping on for funsies, pressure, laziness <insert another 1000 reasons>.
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As for HF, I see a lynch on him at this stage as a hail-mary attempt.
If hes mafia, its very destabilising, and almost game over.
If hes town, its destabilising and we lose a very good asset.
Remember, he would also have 2 team mates...
I hate that reasoning. If he's my top scumread I want him lynched. No one else has as good a chance of flipping scum in my eyes. And frankly, if he is town and this is how he's going to play this game has not worth keeping, and not just because he'll be a distraction to me until one of us is removed from the game.
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On January 19 2018 15:35 Mocsta wrote:
rsoultin,
In retrospect, I would like to hear HF thoughts on my damdred observations.
Whilst I dont like HF voting damdred for behaviour instead of motive; it is also arguable I could only discern motive through a vote on behaviour.
My problem is a town or mafia HF could easily say they voted damdred because of the meta case as a prod...
where does that get us?
He voted him for admitting he says like a lot and is trying to change it. Hf can say what he wants. His filter shows this to be the reason.
Also, can you quote what you think is aoe?
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EPT
