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[N] TL Mafia LXXV
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Survivor is dumb because it's boring, best play is just to claim survivor and afk for the rest of the game as neither faction really gains anything from lynching you (especially town), which is dumb. It's like someone gave you a role where you cannot post at all, only vote - and only once / day. What's the point? | ||
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On June 14 2017 12:48 Fecalfeast wrote: How do you already have a townread? Also what do you do that you have 16 hour shift+ commute? Bcz i am so good. ^^ Normal work day and i promised to go fix co workers roof after. Shoyld have gone mon- tue but unfortunately wind and rain changed plans. Tumblewood can you elaborate more on your last post please? | ||
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On June 14 2017 15:41 disformation wrote: and yes i saw this post, but i didnt get the same feeling from rayn, so id like xata to point it out a bit more. gotta run now. What do i have to do with any of this? | ||
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On June 14 2017 18:47 Holyflare wrote: The problem is you're bad at reading between the lines. Get on holyformation's level. The problem lies with the "maybe later" part. Like depending on what Koshi posts after does the scummy(?) part become more or less scummy to him or what? I dont think what you and him said makes Koshi mafia. | ||
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On June 14 2017 19:48 Koshi wrote: rayn I like you. But why are you defending me? imo it is a good place to start. I completely broke meta there. Problem is that I also always make the townpost as mafia. So I could be so easily 3p. Koshi confirmed bulletproof survivor. I am ok with it. Im not defending you. I am questioning disformation and answered holyflare since it seemed like he was accusing me of something. And now i am out of net for 6 hrs so laters. | ||
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Secondly, the people who want to hunt for 3rd parties are usually mafia. I couldn't give less fucks at the start of the game who is a 3rd party. Because i want to lynch mafia. Fortunately, for mafia, the possible existence of 3p's allows them to genuinely "scumhunt", as in the only way to do so. Another red flag for Holyflare. Then there is this: On June 14 2017 21:05 Holyflare wrote: That's called a dead end. No mafia, no push. I understand the concept of generating discussion. I don't understand the concept of calling someone mafia because they don't have a clear mafia read or push when like fucking half of the game hasn't even checked in / made a meaningful post yet. Another dude suspicious is disformation. First there is the Koshi thing where disformation basically went like "i agree this post is scummy but let me decide later after Koshi posts more if this post is actually scummy or not". That's fucking bullshit. You either think some post makes someone scum (if you call a post scummy) or you dont. A post doesn't become more scummy AFTER person has posted SOMETHING ELSE. That's a huge leap of logic, basically saying post A is scummy (or not) based on to-be-come-posts B and C. Another thing that raises my eyebrows is this: On June 14 2017 22:22 disformation wrote: oh right, the other dude who hasnt answered a good question asked of/to/from/of him What does disformation actually wanna do this game? Apparently his top scum read (or 3p read, i don't even fucking know) votes for someone who hasn't posted basically anything. disformation decides that "because Palmar didn't do something when he wasn't here" he might be scummy. wooo woooo! And people call this dude one of their top town reads. What has he actually done despite being here a lot and posting a lot? What a joke. Fecalfeast is likely town. I liked the approach to darthfoley's opening from him. I recall FF being more "serious" from get go as mafia, at least the last game i played with him. It's like he wasn't trying to make anything out of nothing (which DF's "inconsistency" pretty much was). Tumblewood on the other hand didn't care to answer me afaik. Well now it doesn't matter, since it was about his comment on DF. Now i wont get anything out of it anyways so i have to judge him later. I didn't like how he approached the DF opening. Xatalos is again being super antagonizing towards me. Can't fucking see the obvious while we have talked about this very same thing after basically every game where he decides to tunnel me (which is 100% of the last 2 yr games...). Unfortunately i think he's town though, i don't really think he would have this approach towards me (agreeing with HF based on fucking bullshit points) if he was mafia, since there is a chance i blow up on him and with certain people in the game ther ARE people who can see what is bullshit and what is not. I think he just genuinely believes in what he says about me, so to the ignorelist. Skynx is most likely town. No need to repeat what others have said. Vivax is so far the most level headed person in the game. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, but he is town. Palmar is most likely town for making the correct read (that he should make) there. I mean it's not even unlikely he would make the Vivax town read as mafia but given the game stance at the point i would think he would have more interest in calling me mafia and whatever i say paint it as "well you can't read me", just to fuck with me. VayneAuthority is town. btdt feels town. Idk he feels like he is just all over the place and completely lost in what he should think. Basically i jsut don't think he has a team behind him. I don't think Koshi is mafia. Holyflare could be right in that he is 3p but i don't care about it right now. I think he has some smart posts. That's enough for me for now. Damdred reads meehh... I gotta revisit his filter tomorrow. I am getting too tired today. I don't remember anything annul said, could be mafia. I don't know why people townread darthfoley, because i don't see any good posts from him that i remember. Another one to revisit tomorrow. Everyone else i don't remember anything about basically if they have posted. I didn't even think i need to say this but don't be retarded and think someone is mafia because of what they didn't do when they weren't here. Think with your own brain and don't buy Holyflare's bullshit (yes man, that's fucking bullshit - a lot of what you said is just straight out bullshit regardless of your affiliation and regardless of if you even realize it or not). Think with your own brain. I have a hard time dealing with being called out by half of the game because i happened to have to work 5:30 - 23:30 and some dumbass misconstrued what i said into fit his "this guy is scum" -narrative. I just don't like it, but i am trying to deal with it. Now excuse me i need to take a shower and wake up in 4 hours to work possibly only 14 hours. Fortunately i don't have to decide who to vote for until tomorrow evening. peace | ||
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On June 15 2017 06:44 Holyflare wrote: I don't truly think rayn is mafia like he's implying I think either. I think his "defence" post was bad because it should have been really obvious I was just pushing koshi for conversation (apparently it wasn't) and that line stuck out to me as being wrong in the context of discussion. Hopefully you got some super good reads out of that and i will hear about them tomorrow, otherwise you just have succesfully wasted half of D1 into nothing... Now sleepytime. | ||
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Also what's with the disfo read? I know very well disformation is super duper waffly as town aswell. But i am not talking about that in my read. I am more into the mindset of approaching certain situations. Its not "idk what to think" or "i change my mind" but rather the starting point of dealing with something is already completely off (as per what i said in my post yesterday). | ||
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On June 15 2017 12:07 darthfoley wrote: Like how can Rels view my case on Xatalos as convincing and pretty good while also town reading Xatalos for a thread sentiment case on ruXxar? Don't like Rels so far I agree with this. I dont even agree with his "ruxxar looks super town when town" because ruxxar doesnt, early on. | ||
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On June 15 2017 14:18 Xatalos wrote: rayn: What exactly did you refer to with "I dont think what you and him said makes Koshi mafia."? Because at that point HF's case(?) was basically this: "3P doesn't have a game plan because they dunno who to side with yet. Aka you are 3p. Aka lynch koshbagmcgoo." (Note how he didn't say anything about HF being scummy, just a continuation to the earlier 3P thingy by disfo I think) When i made my post i had read HF's "koshi opener isnt town, he is not happy" -case. Thats what HF was pushing for at the time (at least from what i read) and went with the "sheep me onto Koshi" route. I was only referring to Koshis first post, because that was afaik the only post Koshi has made at that point. | ||
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On June 15 2017 14:44 Xatalos wrote: I'd like if you could quote the mentioned posts and stuff. Really hard to play on my phone at work. I will when i finish work. Holyflare i sill read your Vivax stuff too in the first place when i get home. I am following the game on any breaks i can but im not gonna even try to write any in depth posts on phone. | ||
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I cancelled some plans today so i can focus better on catching up after work. I insta-fell asleep yesterday when i got home. | ||
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On June 16 2017 16:25 Koshi wrote: Also I find it hilarious that after the fact annul got lynched and that info is known. btdt (and rayn) are bitching about "why is not the other guy lynched" and both wasted their vote :DDDDDDDD I am not bitching about anything. I found it weird it's a good thing xata was second wagon because a townie got lynched. So if you think xata is mafia it should imo be a bad thing he wasnt the 1st wagon... But maybe i am just bad at english. | ||
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On June 16 2017 16:39 Palmar wrote: I clicked darthfoley's filter. I don't like it much, and I would expect him to be a relatively easy townread if he was town. I think he is a good candidate for being mafia. Wow Palmar..... | ||
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On June 16 2017 16:55 Koshi wrote: I remember one of my first games as town there was VA and he also played mafia by just blatantly pushing mafia agenda the entire time. No shame was involved. He thought about what would be the best direction for mafia and then pushed that idea in the thread :D At the end of the game I was like "Really VA? Really??" No dude VA has the "i dont give any fucks i do what i want" attitude. Hes town. | ||
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On June 15 2017 18:05 Holyflare wrote: If someone asks for what the case is and someone responds stating the details of the case from a player's perspective but then disagrees with that player's perspective and says so multiple times then why is it scummy and why are you pushing it like it's scummy? Sorry i just have to do this. That's what you do from time to time. Make things seem like they are not. | ||
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On June 15 2017 21:59 Skynx wrote: Palmar still lurking, Damdred and Vivi town for obv reasons. Going after the low hanging fruit is not his usual trend tho. I can prolly just stay on Palmar. I find this post interesting. Why is Damdred town? | ||
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On June 15 2017 22:06 Koshi wrote: Top town disfo. Not too many think that. Koshi youre gonna be so fucking wrong on this one. | ||
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On June 15 2017 22:24 Skynx wrote: Really? Because he has been involved in every case and accusation so far in the game? He's scumhunting non stop. I mean.... this is the worst read in the game. Literally. Skynx can actually be mafia more than disformation for this read. | ||
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On June 16 2017 00:02 Tumblewood wrote: i won't claim to have actually considered every player, but i'm thinking: rels, grack, vivax, annul, disfo, koshi, ruxxar, btdt (in no particular order) are probably town and definitely should not be lynched d1 preferably we lynch rayn or one of the afks This guy can also be murdered. | ||
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On June 17 2017 00:40 Skynx wrote: Disfo is the townest town, im not gona quote posts or teach mafia 101 to anyone here. Elaborate. Until page 50, how is he the towniest town of all towns with no reads at all? | ||
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Also HF. Maybe sl is mafia then. | ||
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Well done sir. | ||
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Grack being mafia or the dick waving list? | ||
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On June 17 2017 00:57 darthfoley wrote: If Damdred is actually Town, I would really appreciate him actually playing the game yes me too. DF could you tell me if there is anything i should read about Xatalos / annul after page 60? I got bored on pages 50-60 because people are jsut repeating the same thing (not that it is a bad thing, for example koshi and HF are pushing cases - it's just boring to read same thing over and over again). | ||
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On June 17 2017 00:54 Skynx wrote: Anyway for sure 1 scum between sl/fefe/rux. They all look equally bad dunno where to start. Grack ninja vote is terrible. Eversince and Rels keep going down in ranks but i havent read their eod properly yet. Other terrible votes off train are btdt and TW. Maybe Vivax aswell but i think he is town. My plan is to also ignore HF and Palmar for a bit. They can be any alignment and so far pretty useless, too high level stuff for me. VA can go suck a dick. rayn is a mystery I think tomorrow we can start the lynch with grack or any of first trio that started the train. Updated townlist: disfo, df, damdred, Koshi, Vivax Sl/ruxxar/tw/btdt/HF for postgame cred what am i missing? is grack a scumread or not? if not, why do you write the red? If yes, why bolded part (last line) does not have grack? | ||
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On June 17 2017 00:57 Skynx wrote: I'll be away for the weekend btw, should be back for a few hours in sunday evening. And no, you're not gonna be away before you explain your disformation read. | ||
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On June 17 2017 01:03 darthfoley wrote: Xata came in near EoD and didn't really defend himself while being in the lead. It was weird. This is usually not a mafia trait- i mean it's more likely to come from town than mafia. But okay. Felt almost like he knew he wasn't gonna be lynched. He got lots of indirect defense from various people so he managed to escape the lynch without having to defend himself and look scummy/opportunistic. What i meant before.... It is not scummy to defend yourself. But okay, who were these people, jsut by name so i can read them after i have read Xatalos. There seemed to be quite a bit of resistance is his lynching. Since then, he's been quite AFK. Same as above. Annul had very real frustration near EoD that was townie. I can't remember if he made many more "new points." I know i read him scum or at least "invisible" as in just hanging around. Idk if that changed later on on D1. Holyflare? What was the thing that made you read him town at EoD? I can read too but i'd rather not since i wanna focus on current things instead. Next i am gonna read Xatalos- | ||
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I dont think xatalos fits the second category. that doesnt mean he is not mafia, but i am not buying that case, there HAS TO BE a case that originally spawned the votes on him. What is it? Koshi? Or do i go search? | ||
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Felt almost like he knew he wasn't gonna be lynched. Here is something i was thinking just by the votes (and i read some of EOD before i started catching up). If Xatalos is scum there is a high chance there is mafia who is on him to just change vote if needed. That's what i would do if i was mafia and the vote went this close. One guy that looks good or if needed can bail Xatalos. But that's if Xatalos is mafia. | ||
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I don't see a convenient case on him from you. Trust me i have read your filter. | ||
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Disformation Xatalos??? Skynx??? Tumblewood?? btdt? then there are some reads i am not sure of, like plammer and holyflare. | ||
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On June 15 2017 16:52 Rels wrote: It was a chronological list of things of interest while I was catching up. When I found something on a player that was already on the list I just put another thing under the list of that player. So: DF: - also understanding Skynx post + doing his own thing (p 18). Dunno why he doesn't like Xata though. Didnt find anything Xata did so far was AI. - nice post explaining why Xata is scummy. Convincing too, the bit where Xata missed Skynx' logic. First dash refers to this post. Second dash refers to this post. Then this: Xata: - good post on ruxxar. Refers to this post. this post. it is all over the place, starts from nothing and ends up on nothing. idk how to explain it more clearly. | ||
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Have you, disformation? Havev you, Eversince? | ||
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I honestly just forgot sl. idk about eversince. ^^ | ||
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you have a 15 page filter. at least tell me on what page approx. | ||
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On June 17 2017 01:48 Eversince wrote: On my EoD stuff: I ask for reads and SL: "vote with me if you think I'm town" Nothing else. HF: vote for SL and loosely explains why. Nothings else. I missed Rels big qoute post on Xata but I don't think it would have mattered. Since I was left with "Blindly follow this because it's the one I want" I just blindly consolidated. SL claiming I have him as a top town read at the time is funny. And expecting me to make a vote based off reads that are almost 40 pg old, after I openly admit that my reads are outdated and I have no time to read to adjust them. Ooff to me. HF claiming I say he's the only one to give input is misconstrued. Other than Rels post that I missed, he was the only one who said the reason for why I should vote with him. He just failed to do it for any of the other two wagons. This doesn't really answer HF's case. | ||
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1) Doesnt say anything. "I know the deadline" is not an answer to "you are mafia becuse you failed to even try to vote" 2) "I spent 0 time doing anything this game really"..... Okay, looks better than the argument that was "you spent 0 time..."? You basically responded to a valid accusation with the accusation. 3) If you have 1 read that is right it doesnt make you town. The argument was that you ONLY have 1 read (which is easy to make as mafia). 4) Uhhh? 5) I have had a hard time too playing this game because of real life. But Holyflare isnt wrong on that what you do with your time is not helping at all. We want scumreads from you, whatever your reasons are. Whoever your reads are. Right now you seem like you are just skating by and going with the flow. Dont do that if you're town. | ||
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On June 17 2017 02:13 VayneAuthority wrote: Skynx, eversince, (damdred,tumblewood, rels), (amx, marv, grack, SL, palmar), ??? This is night time so you can decide for yourself how fake it is whos is amx? | ||
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On June 17 2017 02:20 VayneAuthority wrote: I meant AMG slot, that is my dumpster fire bracket that has 1 mafia but its impossible to know where yeah youre town ok | ||
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sicklucker xatalos disformation skynx tumble btdt kill into this list and win. | ||
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On June 17 2017 03:12 Holyflare wrote: I'm willing to let ever live for a bit at least. tbh idk if that makes her mafia. It could, and idk probably should but i dunno if it does... If that makes any sense. | ||
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On June 17 2017 03:18 Koshi wrote: 4th ruined bu ritoky. boo i got like 7 and HF 9. youre too bad still man. | ||
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On June 17 2017 03:24 Blazinghand wrote: Hey rayn are you here sauna for 30 mins from now but yes. you have 12 votes on you, you need to claim. ##vote blazinghand i lied 13. deadline in 3 mins. | ||
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Disformation sl xatalos skynx btdt Koshi you are wrong. | ||
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On June 17 2017 12:37 darthfoley wrote: Regardless of Xata's alignment, I find it hard to believe that his wagon was 100% pure. It doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective unless it's literally a trash team with no coordination. Which, given the amount of inactivity, is possible... but unlikely Youre most likely right here. Are you around in 8 or so hrs? Lets figure this shit out when i am off work. | ||
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Rels Btdt Eversince sicklucker Disformation Skynx Feel free to add ppl if you wish. Also should prolly read koshi / hf filters. There is a reason why they died. | ||
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Thank god this shit eases up tomorrow. I will actually have time. | ||
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Disformation is probably town after all. I find it hard to believe Xatalos claim a read check on his teammate. Although it's not impossible i find it very very unlikely. That means if there was mafia on Xatalos wagon D1 it's going to be Skynx since there is basically no way darthfoley is mafia. However in the unlike scenario that disformation is mafia i strongly believe ruxxar is mafia too. He was like super certain disformation is not mafia with Xatalos and assuming mafia knew about Xatalos' plan to claim (which is also likely) ruxxar's disformation town case doesn't look that good. Basically it was based on the fact that disformation voted Xatalos at a time "mafia wouldn't vote for him" which is certainly false. darthfoley you probably know what i am talking about here since imo you bussed Calix in that one game in a similar manner, you know like vote at the time that still gives you options to back off if needed but you "look good" in case you do have to bus in the end (or your teammate doesn't get lynched anyways). I need to check a couple of things regarding this later, since other than that ruxxar looks quite townie imo. Fuck it actually disformation doesn't even have to be mafia if ruxxar is... Anyways; It is certainly possible that Xatalos wagon doesn't have mafia there at all. I know i am not mafia and Damdred was not mafia. It is certainly possible AMG/marvellosity slots have 1-2 there. Liek Palmar said at some point there is a possiblity marv would quit the game if rolling scum, he has done it before. Unfortunately we have no way of knowing if they asked to be replaced or just got replaced because they were completely MIA. I have yet to check into Chezitwo / Blazinghand filters since i thought it is fair to give them a couple of irl days to catch up on the game. I have actually surprisingly good track record in reading Blazinghand so that should not be a problem even later on. I don't know who Chezitwo is, he seems like a level headed guy though from first glance. My point was though, even if they were both mafia (Chez/BH) there is still scum on annul wagon, and it is quite clear mafia voted to save Xatalos. There is still Palmar/Vivax/btdt/Tumblewood that voted off wagons aswell. I would say mostly, MOSTLY 1 mafia in those four people and i already think Vivax and Palmar are town. I think VA makes an interesting case on FF. I am gonna revisit my read on him since i believe that case makes a lot of sense. My read on FF was purely based on his opening on darthfoley and how he went with it. I honestly never really cared about to revisit him after that since i didn't see anything that would raise my eyebrows. And I know i can't read 20 people, or like focus on having super good reads on all of the people in the game (like in mini-games you can do that, but that's not at least how i play in big games). But yeah, VA's case makes me wanna revisit FF. I have something to say about btdt most likely, i will check a couple of things when i am off work tonight to confirm i am not talking out of my ass (i skimmed through what i haven't read yet). The rest of annul D1 voters are sicklucker/Rels/Grackaroni/Eversince. I believe we find at least 2 mafia here. I don't think lynching annul over Xatalos would have been that "easy" - from what i gathered from D1 end - in case mafia wouldn't place votes there. I am interested in digging more into why Palamr and Vivax thought sicklucker is mafia, because i don't think that's not at all out of question. Well basically everyone of those 4 could be mafia. Knowing both annul's and Xatalos' alignments this post looks super fishy: On June 16 2017 07:23 Rels wrote: Don't see a town motivation on annul's vote on Xata then begging Xata to vote SL. EITHER he prefers to lynch SL, then voting SL at that point puts him above him with 1 hour to see what happens OR he prefers Xata, but why the begging to Xata so he votes SL then Doesn't make any sense. Scum. Very likely There is basically "nothing wrong" with it, it is just perfect "case" to make as mafia as you hit two birds at once. You protect your teammate AND you have a reasonable reason to vote for the other wagon. Here is another post: On June 17 2017 08:08 Rels wrote: wow that makes Eversince town. My big quote was about annul. So to those thinking ES was faking entering the thread (and Ithought that too befor ethat post), is she faked that she wouldn't mess up the names there. That means the entering the thread was innocent at the very least. Look at what this post says. "Eversince is town because people are calling her mafia for a reason that does not make her mafia". Now while the second bolded part is true, the green part doesn't make any sense. The second bolded part makes Eversince's entering the thread makes it not alignment indigative, yet Rels jumps to a conclusion that it makes her town for no real reason. This is what i call a BS read. I'll go through the rest of the filters and what i reminded myself to check after work. I am back ~3 hrs before the deadline to talk if anyone wants to talk. | ||
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On June 19 2017 18:39 beentheredonethat wrote: So voting wise, Rels, Grack, Eversince, Skynx, darthfoley, (disformation), VA, Tumblewood, raynpelikoneet, marv replacement, AMG replacement so four in eleven Seems like you've gotten "a lot" of parsing done in this game so far.... What's the point of calling 11/17 alive possible mafia? | ||
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I am also quite interested in this from Eversince someone talked about earlier: Everything is here. The connections, the soft defenses, the meaningless casting of doubt, the organization between them interlocks and really is apparent at the lynch. There is only 1 wildcard if there is 5 mafia. What are the connections and other stuff you talk about you see? | ||
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On June 19 2017 23:34 Vivax wrote: Hope that he posts more and adresses my old issue with his read on Palmar that he hasn't picked up on yet. I have absolutely no idea what you mean here. The post where i said maybe Palmar is right or maybe Palmar is mafia? Well i don't think his case on sicklucker is particularly good because he doesn't really even have a case afaik. That was, and apparently still is his only real read (which isn't even a real read). So basically, Palmar's gut reads are usually good if he is town - D1 is usually his best day. However when Palmar is mafia he also loves to do all kinds of crap, like some bs science reads of how many words or letters people post in their posts, or kill anti-town players rather than mafia (or make cases liek that). Does this look like a good case to you? On June 15 2017 07:19 Palmar wrote: I could possibly kill sicklucker. The upside is large as nothing he has said looks townie. The "I'm just trying to trigger ppls lulz" post is kinda bad actually. The downside is small as he's anti-town no matter his alignment late game because he's just not very good at this game. Does sicklucker usually say anything townie, especially on D1? Basically Palmar's cases later sentences even invalidate the only thing that in his case could make sicklucker mafia - "nothing he has said looks townie". I am not just sure if it makes him mafia, or if he is right or sees something he doesn't bother to write (see for example the read on you in liquid qualifier we played in). And i cant be arsed to bother even trying to draw that out from him. I don't want the same shit. I am just gonna wait a couple of days and if he doesn't do anything then just lynch him. Hopefully he'd rather post what he actually sees in case he is town. | ||
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On June 20 2017 06:14 sicklucker wrote: infor tho. grack played a really really shitty town game in the last game he played. So because of this I dont think hes more likely to be mafia then someone like say rels who made good logic for his vote. Lower standards you know Which game are you talking about? | ||
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On June 20 2017 07:39 Rels wrote: rayn / ruxxar / SL / Chezitwo / Skynx ? That could make some sense Let's hear the cases. I am already laughing but let's still hear it. | ||
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On June 20 2017 07:55 Rels wrote: rayn, why is it super unlikely that Xata forged a check on his partner ? Because it's fucking retarded as the claim is supposed to either draw out another cop claim or kill the "red check" before you die. Not to make sure mafia gets 100% lynched whatever the town decides.... | ||
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On June 20 2017 08:05 Rels wrote: 'cause I don't like you thinking that when I don't. It's not logical to think that it makes disfo super likely town on its own. So I thought maybe there was nothing to it I didn't see. But there is not. Of course it does. If you have followed the thread sentiment at all you would know that the people in this game who needed town credit less than disformation are/were exactly darthfoley. If what you suggested would be true there is no reason to make the "check" on disformation because literally anyone else who is mafia is a better target for that WIFOM than disformation is. Basically noone in the game thought he is mafia other than me. Why does disformation need the town credit (which would be the reason to claim a check on a scumbuddy) over anyone else in the mafia team? | ||
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On June 20 2017 08:12 Rels wrote: You're thinking about it in a backward way. Xata was SCUM and you can't use a scum actions to prove someone is town just because "it wouldn't make sense that it did that ???". And wasn't it you that said exactly that in a QT recently ? No. I have talked about situations where someone makes a case where "this dude is mafia because this flipped mafia guy ignored him all game (or some other crap like called him town for very bad reasons)". This is completely different because this situation with Xatalos is a mafia plan and when it is a mafia plan then mafia tries to achieve something with it. If the plan was to claim a check on a scumbuddy - then disformation (now 100% knowing df's alignment) the worst fucking person in the mafia team to claim the check on. That's literally the opposite situation what you are trying to make it look like i am saying. If you can't understand it then you are just stupid for some reason, or intentionally ignoring the obvious. | ||
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On June 20 2017 08:26 Rels wrote: getting tired so I will stop reading filters. I think Grack is town for the post I quoted earlier + that post where he called out the overall sentiement that scum had to be in annul's wagon. I thought the same thing reading those last pages. ##Vote raynpelikoneet Get smart or die. No Rels, you don't get to do this. First of all, your post on Eversince. There is a reason you started with this line: wow that makes Eversince town. I do not care you later figured out you were wrong in this conclusion. It doesn't matter. It matters that your original conclusion is completely illogical and there is always a reason you posted it in the first place, because that's what people do, even if they don't think things through. So i am trying to figure out why you originally came to this conclusion. Here's what i can think of: 1) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (mafia) and made a bad judgement call of what people do think about the post. 2) You fucked up because you know Eversince's alignment (town) and because TMI you came to "correct conclusion". 3) You originally posted that as town because ????? Now you haven't explained why (3) ? Obviously you're gonna claim that's the case regardless of your alignment. Saying "i corrected myself later" doesn't cut it because i don't care about it. I care about what was your original thought process, why did you originally think it makes Eversince town, because as i said, there IS a reason why you originally posted what you did. Secondly there is this disformation thing. The fact is all about this game is what mafia would or wouldn't likely do. You are literally trying to discredit my read JUST by saying "you can't assume what mafia would/wouldn't do". That's fucking retarded since that's literally what this game is about, and nothing else, since by your logic any alignment can post anything they ever want and you can never figure out anything based on what people say/do. Basically, i don't care if you disagree with my conclusion, you are allowed to do that. But you're not really doing that, you're saying i am mafia because of me coming to a perfectly logical conclusion. That's pretty fucking fishy Rels, and i happen to know you do these shit cases on me as mafia, it happens on almost every game you're mafia in. I don't fucking know how to explain this in words that other people can understand, and why what Rels says is super duper dumb and incorrect, but please read it with thought. There is nothing unsmart in what i said. There is everything unsmart and wrong in what Rels says here. Now let's believe Rels is town and actually believes in what he says on what i talked about above. Then there is this thing: On June 17 2017 12:08 Eversince wrote: I'm no town leader and if I'm alive on D3 I will be utterly useless again. So this is my gift for you town. I'm 99.65535% convinced of it. SL, TW, Xata, Grack and X(Solve X for game) is the mafia team. Everything is here. The connections, the soft defenses, the meaningless casting of doubt, the organization between them interlocks and really is apparent at the lynch. There is only 1 wildcard if there is 5 mafia. This is a post Eversince made. Since you, Rels, are so against the line of thinking "what would mafia most likely do" why aren't you interested at all in this post?? It doesn't make any sense since she made a fucking post that is literally filled with nothing but "this is what i think mafia is doing". Why do you treat Eversince differently than you treat me when i approach the game from the same perspective? Here's another one: On June 15 2017 06:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fecalfeast is likely town. I liked the approach to darthfoley's opening from him. I recall FF being more "serious" from get go as mafia, at least the last game i played with him. It's like he wasn't trying to make anything out of nothing (which DF's "inconsistency" pretty much was). This is my early read on Fecalfeast. This is me saying "i think if Fecalfeast is mafia he most likely would have reacted differently to df's opening". Again this is the same thing. Funnily enough this is in the pretty much ONLY post i had made when Rels called me town!!! So i really really have to ask, why does Rels treat me differently than he treats me when i approach the game from same perspective than i do???? This whole stuff above is insane also because you can go to any game i have played ever and this is always how i form my reads. Rels not only fails to realize i am doing what i always do as town, but also even treats myself in a different manner when it comes to different people. Then there is the Chezitwo read. Rels literally said Chezitwo is mafia because of what marv has done some other time. The he backpedals from the read with: I had this huge feeling that he had TMI defending marv like that, but it turns out that since he's his replacement he has TMI on his slot. You really couldn't "figure this out" earlier??? REALLY?!?!? And you're fucking calling me unsmart.... And then there is the annnul vote thing. I don't literally care what annul said about his Xatalos vote. I care about the fact that it is factually incorrect a vote on Xatalos will most likely get him to vote for sicklucker, regardless of what annul thinks. And by that, it makes your conclusion (and vote) extremely stupid - i am talking about the reasoning here, not that you voted for annul in itself. (I don't really blame anyone for voting for annul just because they voted for him.) Because it is true. Because if annul was mafia and wanted Xatalos to vote for sicklucker you don't fucking play around "blackmailing him", you just vote for sicklucker instead and try to plead to Xatalos. That is what mafia would do most likely. You should be smart enough to realize that. ##vote Rels Now here's what's gonna happen if you're town Rels: You stop calling me unsmart because if i am unsmart in how i have played and it makes me mafia then you're 100x mafia. If you think i am mafia at least TRY to make a fucking case based on what i have done. You're gonna explain these things. Then you're gonna get onto your level because right now i will need people to work with me and those people i am looking into are you/Palmar/disformation/Chezitwo/Ruxxar. But mostly you and Palmar, and sadly right now i think you're probably mafia and Palmar is not playing. Maybe he will wake up from his weekend hibernation soon. | ||
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On June 20 2017 18:47 Blazinghand wrote: it's kinda humorous watching rayn try to actually play while these two butt heads. How about you try to play too? Where's your head at? | ||
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On June 20 2017 18:50 beentheredonethat wrote: He spent the last 2-3 pages with painting a beautiful "btdt is scum" narrative, culminating in a "NEVER UNVOTE HERE" fake-rage so he doesn't have to end up on Grack. Vivax was hardcore on Grack and was probably killed because of that, also he was townreading me, so I assume scum!disformation wanted to start a btdt wagon with the town cred he gained from the xata flip (bla fake red check bla). Cherry on the cake: scum killed always into the super active people yet 22-page-filter-disformation survived for some reason. it's like a puzzle, it all goes together. disfo wasn't realler eager to push me on my hard defense on xata during d2, he left this to chez and df (which makes chez probably town btw) and while disfo feels active, he's not really doing much. Even starting the day with that weird "I have no scumreads" post but then suddenly locked grack locked btdt? I think that's as solid as it gets but a grack flip would kinda confirm that lynch avert attempt First of all you cannot really make assumptions of disformation's alignment based on Gracks. If he is mafia with Grack what's the point of calling him mafia in the first place then? Like he has the town credit (even if you don't think so) to call some townie mafia instead. Why doesn't he just simply call you mafia earlier? If Grackaroni is not mafia with him your theory - which is already a flimsy one - falls apart, you said so. But even so, why does that change anything? IF Grack is town here why does that suddenly make disformation town? I think you're looking too much into connections, and you're doing it wrong. The only thing that is a reasonable conclusion in this post imo is that Vivax was probably killed because Grackaroni is mafia. I am not even saying that is correct 100% but i know if i was mafia i would not kill Vivax here, since Vivax tends to be a paranoid vane who can start calling even confirmed townies mafia at some point. But yeah, that's only what i think, i don't know for sure what mafia thought when they shot him. If you're town at least let go of disformation because you HAVE TO realize this isn't productive at all rn and your read is based on someone else's alignment and the fact that he calls you mafia rather than something he has actually said. For reals, you get lynched for this kind of shit all the time. I don't want to lynch you in case you're town. But right now you're not helping, in fact you're mafia siding pretty hard with this stuff REGARDLESS of if you are right or wrong. Even if you are right, disformation and Grackaroni are not the only mafia in the game. Your vote is on Grack, which is fine, but please talk about somethign else than disformation. | ||
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On June 20 2017 19:05 Rels wrote: I have explained 3. It's literally the part you erased after the part you quoted. I didn't "figure out I was wrong in this conclusion", I just thought it was less strong than I initially thought. I still think it's a small town indicator. Why is it a town indicator? | ||
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On June 16 2017 07:38 Rels wrote: No the math fucking doesn't. YES you're one vote less with the switch compared to the main wagon. BUT NOW INSTEAD OF LYNCHING YOUR SCUMREAD IF THERE ARE NO OTHER VOTES YOU RE LYNCHING YOUR TOWNREAD. Without switch: Xatalos (5): darthfoley, Koshi, Skynx, disformation, annul annul (4): sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast, Xata sicklucker (3): Palmar, Holyflare, Vivax With switch: sicklucker (5): Palmar, Holyflare, Vivax, Xata, annul Xatalos (4): darthfoley, Koshi, Skynx, disformation annul (3): sicklucker, ruXxar, Fecalfeast And no Rels, you're the one making no sense here. Annul is making sense. If i have to explain why it makes you super unsmart. | ||
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As town you're asking questions and laying traps. This is also a really fucking bs thing to say Rels. If you genuinely can't make the connection between me "not playing as usual" and having no time to play until now then you're really stupid. Furthermore i do not play in the same way in big games than i do in mini's, even if i had had time to play. There has been literally no point in "asking questions and laying traps" for me before now since i knew i would never have time to make conclusions on the answers. It is that simple. | ||
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On June 20 2017 19:11 Rels wrote: 'cause in the narrative where she's scum with Xata and came to save him EOD1, it's more likely that she was fake AFK and faked entering the thread to save him. That what was said against her. I still don't understand this. You basically just went back in circles and said the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it. Can you explain it in words i can understand? We have concluded she probably didn't fake her entering the thread. But why is misreading/misremembering something a towntell, even slightest? Because i don't see why. | ||
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On June 20 2017 19:42 Chezitwo wrote: It would be impressive if btdt is mafia. Very rarely have I seen someone push mafia agenda so openly like he does in this game. He probably isn't scum though. That's what i already thought on N2 when he pushed some super insane things. He needs to get level-headed though. | ||
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On June 21 2017 06:50 sicklucker wrote: well who are you talking about wtf rels and skynx. | ||
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On June 21 2017 06:51 Chezitwo wrote: Which posts is this referencing? Sicklucker is not more towny than usual. i am not talking about what sicklucker has done. it's a reference to this by rels: sicklucker being this motivated for a D1 lynch is pretty weird. + he didn't react the way I would expect him to HF pushing him. Remained strangely calm and collected for him while still trying to get annul lynched. Yes this is jsut a part of his case but he still scumreads sl for this, aka it's a reason to scumread him (foe Rels). Except that it isn't, because that's a townie thing to do regardless of what sicklucker normally does (take away the HF part since i don't remember how sicklucker reacted to something HF said). There was also one post from Skynx. I can dig it up if you want to but this was a thing that jumped on me. | ||
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On June 21 2017 06:58 sicklucker wrote: rels never looks like scum when hes scum. hes a very monotone player. you have to lynch him on vote logic yes he does. especially when he does his retarded cases on me (which is every game he is scum in). | ||
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On June 21 2017 07:11 Rels wrote: the amount of people scumreading me and not engaging me to gauge me is too high. SL, rayn, Skynx, ruxxar. Shame on whoever is town in that list. That's bs too man. I have done nothing this phase except for engaging you, you brush it all away and dodge my concerns. And then you claim this shit. | ||
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On June 21 2017 07:17 Rels wrote: well I'm here now. Claim any fucking concerns you still have. I hope it's better than what I answered yesterday You haven't really answered anything afaik. | ||
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1) On June 20 2017 19:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: I still don't understand this. You basically just went back in circles and said the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it. Can you explain it in words i can understand? We have concluded she probably didn't fake her entering the thread. But why is misreading/misremembering something a towntell, even slightest? Because i don't see why. You never explained this. 2) Where is the "Skynx is scum" read? From earlier, i don't care if you don't think he is scum anymore i wanna hear the read you were so sure of yesterday. You pointed out some stuff but that doesn't make any sense. Because Skynx gave 3 mafia reads he was most certain of and you think 2 of them are mafia so it would be that... HE IS MOSTLY RIGHT if you are!! And that makes him mafia? And you just say "An easy list to make the seems good but does nothing".... The dude jsut fucking gave 3 scumreads from which you think 2 are mafia, regardless of he pushes them or not he should be one of your top towns. 3) Why is Ruxxar mafia? Oh right... After saying Ruxxar is mafia this is what you say: Still have ruxxar to filter tonight. Mhmmm.. Seems like just as good reasoning as your read on me and Chez is.... 4) So what happened to this: I'm gonna push you until one of us is dead OR you start solving the game instead of just posting weird things and asking pointless questions. Did i start solving the game? It doesn't look like you think so. Then why are you not 1v1'ing me as you said you would? I couldn't give any less fucking fucks if i get lynched because it nets us mafia the next day 100%. You're completely fucking illogical in how your reads change and what they are in the first place. | ||
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Your filter was a complete lackluster then. + you voted for annul for bad reason. + i thought Xatalos is mafia. + i had no time to elaborate on that further. | ||
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ruxxar: - "I like it" on a disfo post that didn't deserve any of it. Not that it deserved scum points. But nothing to like in it. - buying SL's red check. Propose we lynch Eversince, then SL if she flips green. No game vision. Gullible. So you read Ruxxar as mafia because (after discounting your "top scumread" who is 0 posts marv) you want to lynch Ruxxar and one of your two reasons is he wants to lynch your top scumread discounting 0 posts marv and himself. Reeeeellllsssss!!! | ||
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You're saying "the reasoning is the same you earlier said is not actually a reasoning to call him town for it". When I explained I actually think it's a little town indicative. Yes and the reasoning you said it's a little town indicative is same you already concluded is not actually town indicative at all earlier. | ||
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Rels: I think this X makes ES town rayn: bs, that doesn't make her town at all Rels: well i already said that, did you not read this post after my initial post? rayn: i don't care, i wanna know why you initially thought it makes here town, or why did you say so? Rels: Well i think it makes her a little bit town ???????????????????????? | ||
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On June 21 2017 07:58 Rels wrote: ... this is one of my first posts I think ? Why did you remove the timestamp ? They're not the reasons I think he's scum now. This was the beginning of the game Ahem so what are your reasons then? This is the only post you have made about ruxxar after that before the "still have ruxxar to filter tonight.": So this is your reasoning then? Or what? | ||
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1) idk what case youre talking about, if it's the one on Grack it's 100x better than any of yours in this game. 2) ruxxar pushes his top scumread - you call it fake. for what reason? 3) ruxxar wants disformation to vote for his top scumread - you don't know what he is trying to accomplish? No instead you say something stupid like "Are you trying to scumread disfo?" 4) ruxxar thinks there is X mafia on annul, you think there is Y. You scumread him because X is "scary to do as mafia". But hey Rels, YOU CAN'T KNOW WHAT MAFIA WANTS TO DO OR WHAT THEIR GAMEPLAN IS, REMEMBER?!?!?!? 5) ruxxar wants to lynch his top scumread, that's scummy because he thinks the person he strongly thinks is scum is scum, okay.... 6-7) some quotes from yourself that has nothing to do with why ruxxar is scum. good case. | ||
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Now: What is scummy in (1)? Why is this a bad case: *I took away the "he hammered town" part because that's actually a thing that never makes anyone mafia* On June 18 2017 22:24 ruXxar wrote: [.....] 2) He doesn't try to solve the game. How many scum reads did he have the whole game? Let's see: DF: Disfo: HF: "I'm ok with". "Seems like". There's 0 commitment to anything here. Just superficial non-sense without any substance. So obviously he followed up and actually tried to push his scum reads? Nope. Well, at least he voted for his scum reads? Nope. It's like a total non-commitment to any of his "reads" and just screams "I'm just trying to blend in". Explain me why this is a bad case? | ||
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On June 21 2017 08:01 Eversince wrote: I think Rayn should at least drop the argument involving your comment on me. You clarified what you meant within the same minute of posting that. No. The fact is Rels was making a factually incorrect statement he should know is one, and couldn't explain that reasonably. Instead he is trying to defend the statement. | ||
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On June 21 2017 08:45 Blazinghand wrote: When I used this argument against him initially he said that he'd never try faking a dumbtell because he knew he'd be caught for it, so that's a dumb strategy, so he wouldn't do it It is not a dumbtell it's a fucking slip if he is mafia..... | ||
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On June 21 2017 08:46 Eversince wrote: This is the post in question right?: Which he followed within the same minute: Or am I just not on the same page as to what that is about? Because I was thinking this is what that is about. Yes you are. I bolded the important parts for you. This is what he says now when i questioned him for it: I had a thought, then I realized it was not as strong as I thought, then I posted it. "Not as strong as I thought" is different from "that doesn't make her town at all" Does the second big part look like he said this? I think he backed off from a statement he knows is factually incorrect in a manner that looks the least bad. You know like slowly fading into the background.. I hope you and other people get what i mean here. If i made that sort of a mistake as town i would just admit i did a hasty judgement call that was retarded (in the first place) and not try to defend that later (in a way that ALSO kind of contradicts your original retractment from it). | ||
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On June 21 2017 08:01 Rels wrote: Let me replace the middle part by what I ACTUALLY said I had a thought, then I realized it was not as strong as I thought, then I posted it. "Not as strong as I thought" is different from "that doesn't make her town at all" The bolded part is not what he ACTUALLY SAID, that's my point. | ||
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On June 21 2017 09:03 Eversince wrote: I can understand your logic. Assuming he thinks I'm not lying about entering at best I should be knocked down to null at best? But isn't that what he did? I don't recall him ever outright calling me town. His logic about you not lying about entering is sound. I have no problems with that. However it doesn't make you anything. It is just as likely that mafia does not remember something than that a townie does not remember something. The way he followed up on his initial comment is what gives me the problem. He followed up on basically saying "it doesn't make Eversince anything". I asked him "i don't care about that, why did you initially say what you said" and then he says something else. He says "well i figured out i was partially wrong (aka "yes it makes her a little bit town i think") which is something he didn't imply at all imo in the second post. If he had just said "i had a brainfart for a second, deal with it" i would probably be okay with it, but i think he's trying to cover something he knows he made a mistake on rather than just admiting it was a honest mistake. | ||
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On June 21 2017 09:20 Eversince wrote: That makes sense. I guess I'm failing to see the reason why he would bother doing it as mafia though. You are saying you as town fail to see why he would bother trying to softly cover his tracks after accidently calling you town? | ||
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I already asked this, you have apparently missed it: I am also quite interested in this from Eversince someone talked about earlier: What are the connections and other stuff you talk about you see? This is regarding this post: On June 17 2017 12:08 Eversince wrote: I'm no town leader and if I'm alive on D3 I will be utterly useless again. So this is my gift for you town. I'm 99.65535% convinced of it. SL, TW, Xata, Grack and X(Solve X for game) is the mafia team. Everything is here. The connections, the soft defenses, the meaningless casting of doubt, the organization between them interlocks and really is apparent at the lynch. There is only 1 wildcard if there is 5 mafia. --- I'm going to bed for a bit now. Another thing is this, from the same post: ...if I'm alive on D3 I will be utterly useless again. Why do you think this? Even if you think this why do you want to say that? | ||
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On June 21 2017 12:36 Grackaroni wrote: From the non-voters: Vayne, Btdt, Tumblewood, Palmar, Chezitwo, Rayn. I don't think any of these non-voting people have been overly townie and there's probably a lot of scum in this group. So what is your reasoning for not liking me? D1 and N1 i was your town read. Did my read change on disformation change it or what? If that's so, why havent you commented in any way on the Xatalos fakecheck on him? Or is it my read on Rels? Why do you ACTUALLY townread Rels? Because he says there is less mafia in the annul train than the thread sentiment is? Do you have any actual reasoning for this, since even knowing your own alignment there are still people with very flimsy reasoning on the annul train. Rels is one of them. How about you stop making these weird conclusions based on really no reasoning at all. If you have a problem with my Rels read tell me why there is a problem. If you have a problem with my current disformation read, tell me what is the problem. But do not just say "wow Rels sees the things in the same way i do" because regardless of your affiliation saying so without any actual reasoning just looks bad, because that's exactly what mafia would say. The truth is you haven't given any reasoning on why you stand on where you do at this point. You have given out where do you stand but the "why" is missing. | ||
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1) His explanation on the Eversince comment doesn't match up with the earlier explanation on the Eversince comment. In fact i don't even believe it matches the original comment. 2) His vote on annul is based on very bad reasoning and the way he went on with it on D1 in very surface level thinking which is not really typical for him. 3) All of his scumreads are based on very surface level reasoning and there is basically no thought behind them (see for example the read on me, earlier read on Chezitwo, read on Grack, read on sicklucker, N1 or so read on Skynx and the read on Ruxxar). 4) The way he has pushed his scumreads is... well he hasn't, it's non-existent. The complete lack of ANY people to even COMMENT on the case makes me think even more i am right here. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Grackaroni | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:07 sicklucker wrote: ya he is. im more sure of him then grack but no one wants to lynch him for some reason No he isn't. But this game is fucking invalid and we can just concede if there is zero mafia in Palmar, Rels, Grack, Skynx (from people voting for you). It is fucking impossible. | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:13 disformation wrote: just posted it earlier... What is the false town read on Xatalos? I mean what stuff he said wasn't true. I just read his filter and tbh now i remember why i thought he was mafia on N1 but i got proven i was wrong because of the night kills N1. I wouldn't think anyone would understand that so i never bothered with it after. I don't think the read change on Xatalos makes sicklucker anything, maybe more likely town than mafia. Basically people were/are arguing that he knew Xatalos will be killed and that's why he changed his read mid-N1. But if he is mafia he knows that already when annul flips (or even before) so why doesn't he then just do it immediately after the flip, since he already has the reasoning ready (he is gonna use later on). It doesn't make any sense. Rest of it is not anything sicklucker did so i don't really care and the last point you debunked yourself in the same sentence.. | ||
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I wanna know if i take whisky or beer. | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:26 disformation wrote: the xata thing: he said xata hat original reads. correct to: xata had an original read onto you. ppl pointed out that the xata read on you wasnt even a proper scum read. but your point on the immediately after the flip stuff are good let me read that again in his filter. | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:30 VayneAuthority wrote: I disagree with both of those things, I am literally playing this game as dry as possible. I might have made like one condescending post this game You sure do look condescending at times. It's not that you are, i know that, but i can sure think why people see it that way. He is wrong though, you just post what you think and don't give any fucks about what other people think and that always makes you town, while you almost every game get lynched for it. | ||
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no, should it be? | ||
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I mean in sicklucker's filter, i know Xatalos' read progression on me since i have been following his posts almost most closely from everyone this game. | ||
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meh I dont think xatas filter is that bad. at least his ideas are unconventional to the thread which I kind of expect his town play .. Xatalos "genuinely" scumreads me, so there is nothing wrong with this post. Xatalos never stops scumreading me so idk where you are getting your stuff? | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you quote just one fucking post where Xatalos says he doesn't scumread me because i didn't remember it, just went through his fiter and can't find it. I mean between the game start there is about 20 posts where Xatalos calls me mafia for many reasons. You singling out one post that is not a "proper" scumread (when he has actually made like 20) is quite bs to say sicklucker is factually incorrect. | ||
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not even squm like BH does but scum. | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:55 sicklucker wrote: ryan I just ignore stupid arguments like xata never called you scum. its for the best of the game I can't ignore it because fucking approx 20 people in the game say so, and it's factually incorrect. | ||
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On June 22 2017 05:55 Grackaroni wrote: Old Partner. Oh god i just spilled whisky on my keyboard. + Show Spoiler + On September 12 2013 12:31 Old Partner wrote: Wow, so this started! I've finally read up to the most recent page, so here are my notes so far and my statements and questions. + Show Spoiler [notes] + Up through P6 Koshi says policy is "lynch scum". joking? meaningful? what does this mean. says that grack is not a troll. votes SnB for saying "ok but how will you make sure the rest of town doesn't lynch not scum" in response to policy post. wtf? SnB notes PS is coaching a newbie game and asks about it. This is actually pretty next-level and tells me he is town. why is PS and Koshi voting SnB for trying to figure out who PS is? SnB noticing PS in a newbie game and making this connection... means he is probably town. This kind of extra level of thinking is something a town who is honestly trying to figure things out would do. Grack is policy lynching kush. I am okay with this-- kush is illegible. TL towns don't policy lynch nearly enough. P7 Koshi's thing about SnB's word choice is stupid. his word choice being different could be because he has a different alignment, but could be do to any other number of variables, including being presented with a novel "policy" Kush is trolling and I feel stronger about grack's policy vote on kush. His aggression towards kush seems a little over the top but it's okay. Vayne comes in and is actually making a lot of sense. I'm glad he was here at this time. Papasmurf swapping votes to VA seems pretty obviously a knee-jerk reaction. Judging from his word choice, high post count, and the way he moves his votes in response to innocuous statements, he is probably BH. I know you think this kind of thing is real pressure BH/PS, but it's really not. all it does is make your vote meaningless. I revise my read in papasmurf from scummish to townish if he is really BH-- this is how BH plays as town. Vayne's post #137 further reinforces my idea that he is town. His questions are good but don't take into account who papasmurf is. I don't like SnB's #138 though. His responses aren't really meaningful and dont' promote discussion, but it looks like he's contributing. If SnB is scum, I'd be more convinced by hist post #138 than by the other posts he's made before that. P8 Papasmurf is being typical blazinghand in his argument with VA. VA equivocating in post #143 sounds like backtracking, but when you've got PS/BH on you for every little turn of phrase, posts like that get made. Still, a point against him. What is Koshi saying here? SnB's post here isn't scummy but it's not very well-thought-out. why ask all these questions in one post? of course you don't find someone defending you worrying, because he's DEFENDING you. VA's defense is reasonable and people's attacks on SNB prior to P7 second half are unreasonable, but VA has definitely defended SnB on relatively shakey grounds with SnB only had two votes on him. Who is SnB to say that VA wasn't "trying to be right" as so many scum do? What we have here is SnB 'wants' VA to be town, because he doesn't like the idea of being defended by scum. Not saying it's true/false, but SnB what you're doing here is stating a conclusion then looking for evidence to back it up, rather than the other way around. PS/BH with the classic "dumb or scum" statement. P9 VA's "my two cents" and "lol" strike me as odd in 162. Would you say that as town? off-handedly, sure. I like VA for town still. I could see him diffusing tension after this, though. I have questions for him. WoS's inactivity claim strikes me as very convenient. This should be considered a mark against him regardless of circumstances. GK's entrance is solid. It's the kind of question someone who just caught up reading would ask-- he's actually reading the thread for sure. So, now that I'm caught up, a few statements and questions S + Q 1. I know this game is very conversational, but all the spam and one-lining makes it difficult to read and analyze. Some people have that style, and it doesn't take that much longer to read, but it will take me a little bit of time to get used to it. I am glad that people are getting involved! 2. Yes, I am a smurf. I have played on TL before and thought I could use a new start... the hosts know about this and are okay with it. 3. I know we're long past policy, but since I am a smurf and don't have a history written out of what policies I like, here are my thoughts on policy: i. TL towns do not policy lynch enough, not by far ii. the policy lynch should be used D1, not any time close to lylo, since the d1 lynch is the least useful iii. the policy lynch must be stated with full willingness to follow through, and mislynch, as a result iiii. policy lynch should be used on fake-claimers, liars, lurkers, and players whose play is generally unacceptable. v. I may have a scumread today I consider more strongly than a policy lynch. I will be open as possible with my reads and thoughts so that i can be convinced, and convincing. I think our best play on D1 can be to policy lynch though... it makes play stronger. I am aware this is a controversial opinion, but it is also a good one. If you disagree with me, that is okay 4. This is @vayneauthority: despite the fact that you have interacted obliquely with Koshi, you do not mention him ever. Do you think he is town, or he is scum? What do you think of his initial vote on SnB for questioning his "policy" of lynching scum? What do you think of his "policy"? Why haven't you weighed in on him yet? 5. this is @SnB: you think koshi is "uncomfortable" and "projecting"... and you also say he is "silly". do you have a scumread on him or not? 5.b this is @SnB: what do you think of VA, in light of my notes on him? Would you say your perception of him is colored by his defense of you? taking that into account, do you see why he is viewed as scummy? 6. this is @papa_smurf: why did you smurf into this game? Are you really BH? After you unvote SnB you don't mention him again. Do you still have a scumread on him, or do you think he is town because VA is scum? On September 14 2013 07:16 strongandbig wrote: what is the q On September 14 2013 07:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: He actually claims SQUM. Just vig the scum. good times | ||
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On June 22 2017 06:49 Eversince wrote: I don't see what other conclusion anyone would expect me to arrive at Why does that matter? | ||
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On June 22 2017 07:13 Chezitwo wrote: Because I have this horrible feeling that he is actually town. I would be glad to be proven wrong though. dude he basically claimed mafia. | ||
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Whenever you wake up tell me when you can be here tomorrow. I am going to explain something to you and i am gonna now place my bets on you being town. None of these dumbasses will understand it. So please when you wake up tell me the time when you're gonna be here. | ||
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On June 22 2017 19:06 beentheredonethat wrote: "votes in hammer range on town: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand" Tumblewood provided the hammer, sicklucker lifted it, you banged it on the table. I think I have my facts straight here and you're trying to misrepresent my case. Why do you do this? You don't have your facts straight. | ||
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On June 22 2017 18:12 disformation wrote: @btdt does the skynx martyr thing have any effect on your read on him? What is this martyr thing you are talking about? When he voted for himself with about 100 votes on other people? | ||
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Doesn't sound like a reasonable approach to me. Screams fake in fact. | ||
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On June 22 2017 21:24 disformation wrote: dunno. what is his scum story here? bus xata d1 do nothing with the cred? People always do nothing with the cred like that. Always. Same with Tubesock in the newbie game. Same with darthfoley in the game before. People think the credit lasts forever because they have the "i lynched mafia" argument. Really, go look at almost any game where that has happened. Also the timing of the vote from Skynx is very convenient. If Xatalos ups his play you can easily hop onto another wagon. If not, he looks good because he is on scum wagon. Look at his Xatalos post: On June 15 2017 23:43 Skynx wrote: What I get from Xata is that he's around but just chilling. He seems to be pretty mixed up in the whole me calling out ruxxar and followup from there thing, eventually voting ruxxar deeming there is enough stuff on him. + Show Spoiler + On June 15 2017 03:44 Xatalos wrote: Fair enough. At this point I mainly dislike ruxxar and rayn - mixed on Koshi. I've already talked about rayn/Koshi so here's some points about ruxxar: 1) Like Skynx pointed out very early on, ruxxar called disfo's opening post a strong post... when it was really null at best. ruxxar later tried to explain it away by saying that it was just a tone read, unrelated to the content, but really? All I got from the tone of disfo's opening post was non-committing/vague, not decisive/relaxed/insightful or things a townie tone should be. Maybe the format wasn't overly polished, but so what? And is it a strong post if it's just bad/unpolished? Felt to me like ruxxar was staying stuff he didn't actually mean and then tried to somehow salvage the situation. 2) This post... ...is probably the least town-motivated post I saw so far. Not only is that "plan" bad, but it has a thought process of happily lynching people with little to no reason. Again, not aligning comfortably with a town mindset of making the most out of our lynches, but rather just using them up on someone (like scum would). 3) Really....? Now that Koshi has a huge wagon he just sheeps it with no reason whatsoever? - - - All in all, I'll be switching my vote to ruxxar. What's not fine is that he's not revealing ANYTHING at all. I mean there are absolutely no reads other than ruxxar. He has a 3 page filter but not a list, one scumread, no townreads. Lets say he lasts a few days and D3 we analyze him, his D1 will look like he did nothing while being around all the time and having a 3 page filter. This is kinda worse than Palmar. For example here you can see him pretending to be interested but instead of "hey x why do you think Koshi is mafia?" we get the bolded, and no follow up. Filter is pretty much just thoughts like this. He's following the game, but no thoughts on the situation. If you're kinda null, just tell. If you think rayn is town at least say so, don't have to defend him maybe but it will prompt people to ask you questions and so on. He is playing a pretty risk-free game. Props to DF for spotting him earlier on, very lynchable. Two things to notice here. 1) this is basically +1'ing darthfoley after df made his case, backed up by 2) before this Skynx never really talks about Xatalos at all (i mean this is something he just didn't suddenly come up with) fuck how to explain that better.... i mean like, this doesn't seem like Skynx progressed any read he had before. He is basically just saying what df said. This is an easy thing to say as mafia. Also mafia usually wants to make it look like THEY made a case (when in fact thay didn't). I mean, if i made that conclusion for whatever reason, i would make a post that says "I read darthfoley's case and it is very good, lynch Xatalos". There is no reason to basically rewrite the case. Also does it look like he is really pushing Xatalos lynch? Look at filter pages 1-2 after the case. Does it look like he even believes in the case? Do you see the super good Xatalos scumread here on N1? On June 17 2017 00:54 Skynx wrote: Anyway for sure 1 scum between sl/fefe/rux. They all look equally bad dunno where to start. Grack ninja vote is terrible. Eversince and Rels keep going down in ranks but i havent read their eod properly yet. Other terrible votes off train are btdt and TW. Maybe Vivax aswell but i think he is town. My plan is to also ignore HF and Palmar for a bit. They can be any alignment and so far pretty useless, too high level stuff for me. VA can go suck a dick. rayn is a mystery I think tomorrow we can start the lynch with grack or any of first trio that started the train. Updated townlist: disfo, df, damdred, Koshi, Vivax Sl/ruxxar/tw/btdt/HF for postgame cred ???? He literally talks about D1 votes and why people are mafia based on it but he doesn't even call the opposing wagon he was so sure is scum on D1 mafia?!?!?! | ||
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On June 22 2017 21:59 disformation wrote: he also was not there for eod, cause bed, which 100% fits with his pre game excuse. I am not talking about EoD, i am talking about N1. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + https://www.twitch.tv/videos/153599313 | ||
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On June 22 2017 22:10 disformation wrote: i guess the special someone is plammar? if you manage to get that guy to play ill give you a get out of jail for free card for a day or two. aight n1 starts not very good. dont really like those posts. wait. wait. wait. wait. wait.: where is xata in that? The last post is what i am talking about. | ||
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On June 22 2017 22:12 disformation wrote: though. didnt we have the same argument with sl? where it was like "why wouldn't scum, SR xata super hard at that point" cause they know he will probably bite the dust extremely soon, etc? No it is not the same argument. The argument was that if sicklucker is mafia with Xatalos he (1) probably knows Xatalos is gonna get lynched because of (2) what he says mid-N1. Basically if he is scum he believes Xatalos is gonna die soon, that can be seen from his posts. The difference in Skynx is the (2) never happens so i don't assume (1) either. That makes his thought process and evaluation of the situation (if mafia) different from sicklucker's. I hope you get what i mean. | ||
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still tunneling ruxxar even though it makes little sense at this point just this: Look at it collectively as a progression though. After its proved annul is town and xatalos is likely mafia, he still has this same read of ruxxar mafia. its what happens when you dont want to get on too many people's bad sides and you start stagnating your reads as mafia. ? | ||
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No i really shouldn't. The case(s) on him are very weak and based on stuff that i don't think make logically sense. Knowing what Grackaroni flipped and the way people on sicklucker pushed (or rather the lack of it) him. I'll write a more detailed answer in a bit, got friends visiting right now. | ||
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On June 22 2017 23:46 Chezitwo wrote: This is bullshit and you know it. You are defending him by proxy with this "there were shit cases on him" without even analyzing his play which is very different from the town!SL you should know. You just pick the 1 bad sounding point Rels brought up (SL pushing a lynch day1) and claim that it invalidates the whole SL push. Very scummy thing to do. I am eagerly awaiting your explanation of how the Grack flip makes SL town but: You are probably mafia. No. You are terrible at this game. | ||
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The push on sicklucker is based on very bad reasoning, i already talked about it with disformation yesterday. If you can't comprehend the reasoning behind what i said then i literally can't help you. I already also said this yesterday: On June 22 2017 05:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: No he isn't. But this game is fucking invalid and we can just concede if there is zero mafia in Palmar, Rels, Grack, Skynx (from people voting for you). It is fucking impossible. Yes, i thought, and i still think at least one of those three alive is mafia. Which brings me to: After my vote on Grackaroni i had the thought at some point that he is actually town because of the people (outside you and disformation) voting for sicklucker didn't give any shits about the lynch at all. Unfortunately Grackaroni went and fucking claimed mafia and you should always lynch that. At that point i thought they just gave up on trying to save him. But knowing he wasn't actually mafia i am back to the conclusion that the people on sicklucker didn't really care which one of the two gets lynched. I still don't have any reason to think sicklucker is mafia. As mafia, at some point sicklucker will always do the thing where i know he has TMI - it has happened before and i thought i saw that on N1 but the night kills invalidated that. Also you should know one thing about me. I don't give any flying fucks anymore. I used to, but i don't have the same kind of "fire" i used to have when i was able to play about 4-10 hours a day. I don't have the time, and even if i did it takes too much energy and just makes me mad, so i stopped. And then there is this other thing: Now that the other game is over i can actually talk about this. I played another game which i was alive for 33 days. In those 792 hours my vote was on a townie for a total times of one, for exactly 1 hour and 15 minutes, because i got tilted at Rels for suggesting i would make the dumbest night kill i have ever seen. For 32 days i tried to convince the town to lynch one of the most obvious mafias i have ever seen in any game i have played. Guess who was the only townie who got lynched that game? For being wrong on Hapa's alignment for 3 days when he afk'd and i had no time to interact with him and then someone just hammered him with almost 10 days left in the phase... And even when i was wrong i was right because i was pushing the other fucking mafia. Now that is not why i get mad irl. I get mad when even after all that there are completely illogical and straight out stupid people who cannot understand any sort or logic at all and tell me how i should play mafia. I had literally three scumreads in that game and all of them were mafia, even when i didn't think Hapa is mafia i couldn't tell who the third mafia is. So yeah, that was the 8th time i have gotten lynched as town. Out of those 8 times in 5 occasions i have only called out mafia/SK .At least almost - in that one dumb game i afk'd for 24 hrs for valentines day and came back with like 100 votes on me "bcz rayn never afks" and called out 7 people of which there was 5/5 were mafia and one SK. But no, "we are not reading your posts you are mafia bcz rayn never afks". So this is going to be most likely my last game of mafia, i have now tried like three times and it always ends up in the same way in like at most 10 games. But in the last couple of years i have been lynched for like eight times, a couple of them i totally deserved, one was retarded game overall and the last five times i have only called out mafia. I quit for a couple of times already because of that (amongst other things). When the game of logical deduction doesn't include logic anymore i don't really find much fun in it, except for if i am right or not. I decided i wanna have presence for the longest amount of time since i don't usually do as well in obs/following than i do in-game. And Koshi was being a dick and switching his "lynch rayn D3" into D2 (srsly Koshi that's super fucking annoying and the only times you have lynched me i have ONLY FUCKING VOTED FOR MAFIA ALL FUCKING GAME). These are quotes from the last couple of games i have played here. You are probably not aware of this at all assuming you havent played for a while. If you however are, then you can fucking die because you're mafia trying to pull completely retarded meta shit on me you should 100% know is false. I don't care if i am lynched. I don't care to yell at people about my scumreads. I care about being right or wrong and figuring out the game. Sad but true - i am not playing for anyone except for my own amusement anymore, because of the shit i have been getting in games especially when i am FUCKING right. So yeah, i don't care what you think of my alignment or my play. Dealwithit. I don't think sicklucker is mafia. My top mafia read is Rels. Rels should know this aswell, yet he is softly pushing me for this shit. I think you're town, i think disformation is town, i think VA is town, i think ruxxar is town, i think btdt is town, i think sicklucker is town. I kind of think Blazinghand is town. I don't know what FF is. I don't know what Palmar is. I don't know what Eversince is. Tumblewood can be mafia because i don't remember anything he has posted. Skynx can be mafia for what i have talked about today. That's it. Assuming there is 5 mafia the mafia is Rels, Skynx, Tumblewood and most likely one of Palmar and FF. There are my reads. Either you agree or not, but there they are. | ||
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On June 23 2017 01:03 Fecalfeast wrote: Eversince played a good game from what I can tell in the game you linked disfo but she fell off and ended up dying the day before lylo mainly because she stopped playing. I would be totally fine with an es wagon today Please elaborate on why. If i am completely honest with you i think you and Palmar both have a higher chance of flipping mafia than Eversince has, but convince me. | ||
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But i already sent a message to Jesus Lord the Savior. | ||
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On June 23 2017 01:10 disformation wrote: @rayn can you explain your va town read? guys really null to me. town: fefe chezitwo rayn townlean: btdt I am gonna dig up a quote from an old game obs qt that should explain the read. | ||
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https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/8rjcQH6vDt2W Basically when VA is scum he pushes mafia agenda and it shows (and no, thinking a townie is mafia is not necessarily pushing mafia agenda). He is not pushing any agenda this game, his play just screams "here is what i think, don't care if you care or not". I don't think i have ever been wrong on VA's alignment after September 25 2013. So there is that. | ||
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On June 23 2017 15:55 Chezitwo wrote: Nonono. Why would he make that play? We can lynch him if he is still alive in LYLO. And if he is telling the truth then night3 was really good. The protective role can just claim whenever they are about to be lynched. Makes me think BH either unnecessarily acted yesterday or he was just excited town. Still want to murder rayn. What an ungrateful basterd. | ||
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On June 23 2017 22:26 VayneAuthority wrote: I literally made 2 posts roleplaying a wild west headhunter :D :D :D | ||
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On June 23 2017 22:43 beentheredonethat wrote: oh right but he's all on Palmar and I think that's good To be honest thats the only good thing i remember. Also he called me scum so i am okay woth him dying. | ||
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On June 23 2017 22:49 disformation wrote: well tw popping in, throwing out a few reads with 0 regard to thread consent and wasting his vote on whoever he thinks is scum is exactly how i remember him playing in a recent game. problem is: compared to that game he has was less content/care this game. I am very terrible at reading him. I always think he is mafia at some point. | ||
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On June 23 2017 23:02 ruXxar wrote: Well it didn't seem like you would change your mind when three people told you that it was incorrect: Dude you really think that makes him mafia? Because i think the opposite. He is pushing insane shit and basically begging to be lynched. Thats not how mafia plays. Idk if you have played with him before but thats always how btdt gets lynched. | ||
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On June 23 2017 23:30 ruXxar wrote: That reminds me, I actually want to put rayn on my town pile for his genuine reaction to palmars bullshit read: Thats a terrible reason to townread me but tell me why i can be mafia in your opinion? Or disformation? | ||
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On June 23 2017 23:46 ruXxar wrote: Reasons why you can be mafia: Bickering with rels nitpicking over wording of a text about eversince. Ganging up on rels together with BH looked real suspicious. Claiming SL was town and defending him during EOD made me think you three were possible scum team, since you all were deadset on lynching Rels. After SL flipped, that theory pretty much fell through. Also calling the two wagons town v town seemed like a TMI moment. I always nitpick because thats how you find mafia. Dont blame BH ganging up on Rels WITH me on me. Because i cant decide what BH does AFTER ME. Your third point is invalid as you said. I did that after grack flipped. I genuinely though grack is mafia and sl is town. | ||
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On June 24 2017 00:11 Chezitwo wrote: When did SL state his tumble read then? Because if he was 100 % sure TW is town because he thought I am mafia then Tumblewood is mafia. Wait you and Tumble are same if eversince is town? Am i getting this right? | ||
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On June 24 2017 00:15 Chezitwo wrote: I understood it like SL thought Tumble is town and I am mafia. Which would indicate a different check. That doesnt make any sense. If he thinks you are toen strongly why doesnt he push tumble d3? | ||
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On June 24 2017 00:17 disformation wrote: i am actually hoping one of the claims is fake. cause as it stands we had 2 investigatives hardcore investigating the 3rd investigative, who in turn didnt properly crumb his stuff. Wait who have claimed besides es and va? | ||
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On June 24 2017 00:18 Chezitwo wrote: SL thought I am mafia all game. Because of marvs absence. And he called tw town? | ||
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You presented it already. | ||
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On June 24 2017 00:22 disformation wrote: thats it? Yes he calls one of his checks town and one scum. Assuming ES is town one of them is mafia or miller and i dont think chez is scum, and one miller has flipped. This is not lylo right? | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:11 Rels wrote: So. Tumble and Chez got back as different alignemnts. A miller has flipped. That means that mechanically speaking: It's very, very unlikely they're both town. It would mean unlikely stuff like: a second milller, or a framer that offensively framed Chez, when usually framer protects the team. It's highly likely one of them is scum. It's kiiiinda possible that both are scum: if one of them is GF, or if they have a framer who defensively framed Chez. But much less likely than much one of them. Youre making about -8% sense here. | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:12 Rels wrote: very likely I think, from the logic he uses + I totally fooled him in at least one game, the resistance game we played together Why the fooling part? What does that have to do with anything? If youre town stop calling me mafia and stop being dumb. | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:14 disformation wrote: chezitwo said he likes rels playstyle a lot or something Why does Rels say "i totally fooled him" if he thinks chez is town and he is town? | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:16 disformation wrote: rels is clearly talking about another game? Oo So what? "I think he is kitaman. It makes sense for him to like my logic and i fooled him in another game". Why??? What??? | ||
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If i said now "i am good at fooling disformation when i am scum" what would you think? | ||
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You really think mafia has a framer in a game with a parity cop and miller????? Bullllshiiottt | ||
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Yeah but why is like half of your post "they could still both be mafia"? | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:25 Chezitwo wrote: If I comment on this I will have to react to every idea of who I am and I'd rather not. Are you kitamanish? | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah but why is like half of your post "they could still both be mafia"? ...or town | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:33 Rels wrote: no reason. It's not the most likely scenario at all. As it's very clearly written. Exactly why the why. | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:37 Palmar wrote: TW's filter is super weak, and by far the scummiest vote on me. Oh right just what you said before. | ||
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On June 24 2017 01:42 Rels wrote: Leaving work, see you in a few hours. (= Chezkita, if you could bring up the townie posts you found in rayn's filter it would be great Even if i was wrong on you i have the best reads in the game. | ||
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On June 24 2017 03:39 ruXxar wrote: So... What if TW flips town? No | ||
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On June 24 2017 22:42 ruXxar wrote: Can we discuss this? Besides the eversince stuff, what makes you think he's mafia? I have said all i have to say. | ||
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What you got on blazinghand? | ||
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On June 27 2017 00:33 disformation wrote: small random note: is it just me or does basically everyone have rels in their scum poe, but noone wants to lynch/push him? I havent had time after noone wanted to lynch him and then we nailed Tumblewood the next day. | ||
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I gotta reread something after store. brb. | ||
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On June 27 2017 00:17 Palmar wrote: My gut tells me this game will be solved by something like (btdt+bh+rels)-1+the scum I miss So two out of them (at least) and possibly someone I'm writing off too cheaply. Do you believe you: 1) btdt + bh + rels is the scumteam and there is just a possibility you're missing one in case you are wrong on one of them, or 2) you' morecertain of being wrong on one of them and you are missing someone? | ||
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Basically what i think is btdt is a relatively new player who gets lynched for not being able to express himself very clearly, or being insanely wrong and (sorry) not thinking very brightly, or not thinking things he say and think are true very clearly. I mean what mafia hard defends Xatalos on D2??? Especially after some point it became very clear that Xatalos just gave up, yet btdt just kept going on and going on on how he believed his claim. That's insane, in case he is mafia. Another thing is his reads list on N2 where he suddenly cases disformation big time. Do you really think mafia would case someone who tried to lynch said mafia on D1 and who the said mafia fakeclaimed a red check on? (On contrary look at how Rels approached the same situation. He didn't really call disformation mafia, just put "doubt" on disformation's towniness and instead called ME mafia for making the same conclusion he himself 95% certainly believes on. That's what i call bullshit.) Basically, btdt's play - if mafia - is so insane i just don't believe it is true he is scum. He hasn't done nothing but basicallly self-destructed in this game if he is mafia and i don't believe any mafia who has teammates even CAN do that. That's what i said earlier and what we talked about with Chez at some point during the weekend. I just don't think any mafia can play like that. | ||
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On June 21 2017 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can people at least look at what i have said about Rels and comment on it? 1) His explanation on the Eversince comment doesn't match up with the earlier explanation on the Eversince comment. In fact i don't even believe it matches the original comment. 2) His vote on annul is based on very bad reasoning and the way he went on with it on D1 in very surface level thinking which is not really typical for him. 3) All of his scumreads are based on very surface level reasoning and there is basically no thought behind them (see for example the read on me, earlier read on Chezitwo, read on Grack, read on sicklucker, N1 or so read on Skynx and the read on Ruxxar). 4) The way he has pushed his scumreads is... well he hasn't, it's non-existent. The complete lack of ANY people to even COMMENT on the case makes me think even more i am right here. I know a lot of people have disagreed with this but i am still going to repost this ince i know Palmar should be able to figure out what i am saying here if he is town. Two things to add here. 5) the "read" on disformation maeks no sense. it was not really a read - it was more of calling me scummy for making a conclusion he thinks was townie.. Same thing that happened in his sicklucker read D1, where he called sicklucker mafia for something townie. 6) The way Rels handled the sicklucker - Grackaroni D3. Does it look like to anyone he really cared about which one we do lynch? Then he conveniently appears 30mins after deadline with "yo i am drunk", seems like he had some super important things to do. Now this is not really scummy in itself but the fact that when the lynch started clearly being Grackaroni vs sicklucker he was more interested in calling the people in Grackaroni wagon mafia and arguing with me (when i already moved on to figuring which one of the two to lynch) instead of trying to convince people of voting his scumread. | ||
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On June 27 2017 01:43 Palmar wrote: It's really just HF's insistence at some point that rayn is mafia that keeps that door open. No idea actually if hf changed his mind later. what? | ||
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On June 16 2017 23:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels is mafia. and after this Holyflare hasn't said anything about my read on Rels (which wasn't even in the thread before) so idk what you're talking about Palmar? | ||
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On June 27 2017 01:52 Palmar wrote: how do you not understand that? I think you're town for your content, but for some reason hf kept calling you mafia early day 1, and HF is like at least mid-tier, possibly high-tier player. Ohh sorry, i thought you were saying HF was saying i am calling Rels mafia for bla bla bla which he never did. Holyflare didn't even think i am mafia, he was just gauging for my reaction, just FYI. | ||
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On June 27 2017 01:57 Palmar wrote: I'll read your Rels stuff later (if you wanna quote what you mean by that 1st point that'd be helpful) - I accused Rels of thinking Eversince is town for absolutely retarded reason. - Rels responded that i was accusing him of something he didn't say, because he didn't say what eversince did (let's call this thing X) said made her town, it was only a slight town indicator - I told him that i don't care, but he originally wrote "wow that makes Eversince town" which doesn't really sound like it's a "small townie indicator". I wanted to know why he originally wrote that sentence. - Rels answered and told me he didn't call Eversince town, then explained why it is just a small town indicator. - I told him he is just answering in circles. And that the answer doesn't even go well together with the original post. Now there this X thing is the following. People were accusing of Eversince saving Xatalos by faking an entrance to the thread (which was accidently remembering something annul posted was from Xatalos - or vice versa, anyways that's irrelevant). The thing is people make these kind of mistakes all the time, and it doesn't mean anything towards their alignment. I know people think it does, but Rels shouldn't, because he is good enough of a player to realize misremembering a thing doesn't make someone anything, and you can't tell if the person actually misremembered or faked the stuff. It's a completely null tell. So all in all: - Rels called something completely null townie (most likely because he jsut hastily worte a post and has TMI against a dumb case). - When i questioned him for it he never gave me straight answers and was just defending his towncase by saying "it's not that townie i agree but it still is". When i said, "no, it is not, and that's not even what you originally wrote", he just kept on saying the same thing over and over again until noone cared anymore. - As i said before i would have been completely okay if he had just said "i had a brainfart and you're right", but instead he did this thing in where you know you've been rightly accused since you're mafia and you just try to slowly get away from the argument or make the argument so fucking complicated noone cares anymore - when it is in fact a very simple argument. I have seen it many times. | ||
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- rels calls me mafia because i am "unsmart" - rels calls chezitwo mafia because of something marv did in another game - rels calls skynx mafia when skynx has almost the exact same mafia list rels does - rels calls ruxxar mafia but has yet to read ruxxars filter what a bunch of jokes for reads. | ||
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##vote Rels | ||
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On June 20 2017 07:39 Rels wrote: rayn / ruxxar / SL / Chezitwo / Skynx ? That could make some sense On June 20 2017 07:48 Rels wrote: well he ruined a game because he wanted to be replaced and didn't want to play scum. When Arta told him it was not possible he refused to continue playing. You're not smart enough. basically at this point the above is because i think disformation is town from D2 and Rels thinks it's very likely too.. On June 21 2017 07:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: 2) Where is the "Skynx is scum" read? From earlier, i don't care if you don't think he is scum anymore i wanna hear the read you were so sure of yesterday. You pointed out some stuff but that doesn't make any sense. Because Skynx gave 3 mafia reads he was most certain of and you think 2 of them are mafia so it would be that... HE IS MOSTLY RIGHT if you are!! And that makes him mafia? And you just say "An easy list to make the seems good but does nothing".... The dude jsut fucking gave 3 scumreads from which you think 2 are mafia, regardless of he pushes them or not he should be one of your top towns. 3) Why is Ruxxar mafia? Oh right... After saying Ruxxar is mafia this is what you say: Mhmmm.. Seems like just as good reasoning as your read on me and Chez is.... 4) So what happened to this: Did i start solving the game? It doesn't look like you think so. Then why are you not 1v1'ing me as you said you would? I couldn't give any less fucking fucks if i get lynched because it nets us mafia the next day 100%. You're completely fucking illogical in how your reads change and what they are in the first place. On Chezitwo: See the post where he calls me unsmart and this: On June 20 2017 07:51 Rels wrote: dunno. But it just clicked that you're actually marv's replacement. So it could make sense that you're defending him like that for no reason. Yes, that is where his read is originally based on. | ||
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On June 20 2017 21:00 Rels wrote: Actually I just did. this is kinda townie Nothing else stands out of to me as town or scum. The activity is bad ofc though. I want him to play more. Also i just found this: disformation (or someone with better english than me) could you translate this to me? I am asking this because the very very first single reasoning Rels ever gave for Ruxxar scumread is that "ruxxar believes sl N0 claim", and this townread on Tumblewood seems like having the opposite reasoning. | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:11 disformation wrote: mh. not necessarily. though rels didnt really explain why he thinks that is town. could be: a) I think tw's thought process is more likely to be town. b) he is agreeing with tw two different things. I am not sure why (1) would be the case unless (2) since Tumblewood isn't really saying anything different than what ruxxar did (except that ruxxar at least came to some sort of conclusion which Tumblewood failed to do). | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:12 Rels wrote: last game he played is a direct counter example of that assesment. no, it is not. About 10 pages of his 5 page filter is when Vivax claimed cop and a red check on Holyflare and even then almost every other post was "lets lynch Vivax but Holyflare could still be mafia".. | ||
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I don't think that post by Tumblewood is townie (why would it be?) and i don't think the post from Ruxxar is scummy (where ruxxar apparently takes sl claim/(or mafia fakeclaim) at face value). I mean like, Rels thinks ruxxar is scum for taking the claim at face value. Rels also thinks Tumblewood saying why Ruxxar is actually more likely town for taking the claim at face value makes Tumblewood town. Rels continues to think Ruxxar is scum for it. Now why does Rels think Tumblewood is town for this post where he says things he doesn't agree on? | ||
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On June 15 2017 08:51 Rels wrote: My thoughts catching up. Will vote marv tomorrow if he still haven't posted. Otherwise ruxxar or Eversince. + Show Spoiler + ruxxar: - "I like it" on a disfo post that didn't deserve any of it. Not that it deserved scum points. But nothing to like in it. - buying SL's red check. Propose we lynch Eversince, then SL if she flips green. No game vision. Gullible. [.....] | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:29 Rels wrote: lol rayn. I liked a dude's thought process even though it lead to the opposite conclusion than mine. And you're trying to push on that just lol p: one more false thing to add to the list. I guess it isn't really false though. But pretty bad What was good in the thought process? He didn't really say anything. | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:30 disformation wrote: well btdt had a ton of posts i didnt agree with, but i still think he is more likely to be town. i also dont really care about that fake claim that was not so fake by sl. so yeah that post by tw is not really town and the ruxxar thing was also not really scummy. though i have to say i dont like the wording in ruxxar's post. reminds me that he was pushing for autos a lot of the game. Like the only good thing in Tumblewood's post is this: believing the claim requires not realizing that sl just made that up. and if rux or disfo are mafia then they should figure that out because it doesn't reconcile at all with the information that they have ...this is agreeable. Which should already tell you that literally no response to the N0 check (which is already dumb as fuck) can be scummy. | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:40 Rels wrote: my point IS that when he finally tries today, his reasonnings are POE. Not taking any risk, not directly pushing someone. I don't think he's even voting BUT THE DUDE NEVER EVER PUSHES ANYONE (aka does anything)... Last game he had his vote on Grackaroni for like some hours on D1 when he thought Grackaroni lied and then went back to his RNG. Didn't have a clue why people voted for Fidei, voted off wagon (and not even his "real scumread" Grack) but obviously claimed credit in case he flipped scum. He literally just doesn't do anything unless there is some claim situation. | ||
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On June 28 2017 01:59 Palmar wrote: 1) I haven't played much, but when I have I have done it with the sole intent of making reads or solving the game. I haven't engaged in any arguments or pointless fights or otherwise created content just to create it. Almost all my posts are reflections on reading a filter or commentary on something that interests me. At least i don't care what you do when you are not here. I care about what you do when you are here. I don't really think your btdt case is scummy, i just think it is based on things that even btdt has cleared up before, yet you completely ignore these answers. at best Palmar, your case is lazy. And that's pretty much the only thing you have done. So yeah, atm you're not really helping yourself, and not helping the town if you are a part of it. I am pretty pissed off at myself because i cannot tell if that makes you mafia or not. I thought i had something to 100% figure out your alignment but it turns out i missed one sentence in your post where i thought you were - after that - either having a super townie thought process or 100% contradicting yourself based on no new information.2) I tryhard when I'm mafia. I always do it because the QT sort of forces me to. I have my teammates there right in front of me and I get far more of a "team boost" than I do as town. In general, my play is extremely similar to a baseline of "act like a normal human being" when I'm mafia. On the other hand, when I'm town I play a myriad of styles, from lurking afk to spamming to playing characters or even having multiple personalities. Now this is factually false. 100% factually false. 3) While some have called my reads shallow, they're all based on reality. I read something, think something about it and run with it. Yes, but i can honestly see why people call then shallow. See my answer to the first part of your post. 4) I care more about being right than surviving. I could easily have jumped the Rels wagon, but I just don't think it's the best lynch. I really, really think btdt is 100% going to flip mafia this game. I don't really think Rels will. I will obviously lynch Rels over myself, but it's not what I want. I am truly disappointed people are buying btdt's act. Rayn saying a guy who has been here over a year is a "new player" is just... meh. These are the games btdt has played (+ some 2-3 games last couple of months). [S] Newbie Mafia XXI Mafia Framer Lynched Day 3 [S] Newbie Student Mafia XXII Mafia Roleblocker Endgamed Day 4 [T] Dota 2 Mafia Town Shadow Fiend Killed Night 2 The dude IS a new player regardless of how long he has "been around". It's not how long you have been here, it's how many games you have under your belt. Also i do not see btdt's play as "an act". If you are going to assume this you must assume btdt has came into the game with "okay dudes i try to look as scummy as possible so people think i am too scummy to be scum" which is never ever a correct way to play as mafia. At least i fucking know if i was in scum QT with him i would tell him to cut that sort of crap instantly and play the game to best of his abilities. I genuinely just think the dude is horribly wrong in a lot of things and the way he has played screams me he doesn't have a team behind him. I don't know why you wanted to talk with me about Rels and when i did you left and never went back to even checking what i said. I have completely forgotten about FF even existing in the game. What do you have on him? | ||
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On June 28 2017 02:33 Palmar wrote: Nope it's not, it's true but as usual you are absolutely fucking terrible at knowing my meta. I don't think anyone on TL has as many delusions and bullshit about what my play is as you do. You're literally the worst on TL in knowing anything about me, because every game you say something that's wrong. Yes i am lately. Because for some reason you have started doing same kind of stuff you used to only do as mafia (regardless of how much time you had to play) like 3 yrs ago. You can call a couple of pages of one liners and some big posts tryharding if you want to but failing to follow a logical train of thought... i would not really call that tryharding. If you want examples you should probably look at the game where you claimed cop and followed it up with how mafia should play, or when you said you'd sheep someone and then do the opposite at the end of D1 in Outlaw. What i am trying to say is that you can look like you're tryharding but you're really not. | ||
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On June 28 2017 02:52 Palmar wrote: Oh I am not tryharding this game at all. That was one of the decisions I made,I was only gonna do as much work as I felt like. My point is not that I'm tryharding, my point is that what little I try is useful and good, because I'm town. I know you are not tryharding. I also don't see how what you are doing is useful and good sadly. Look i wanted to talk to you about Rels. I have wanted to since last thursday when you showed some life while knowing weekend is coming. Finally yesterday you actually engaged me in conversation about it but that dropped as soon as i actually asked your opinion on the things on him. I asked you about FF, and i don't think that is much: I follow a very, very simple script when I play mafia. I give my reads and I vote for the person I believe is most likely to flip mafia. I sometimes scumread half the game, but it's really only who I try to kill that matters. Like, I'm currently saying FF may be mafia based on his contributions today, so you guys know how I feel about that, but I'm not trying to kill him, it's not my strongest read. I am sticking with my strongest read. The reason i usually end up scumreading you is because i try to engage into a conversation with you about who i think is mafia and who you think is mafia but as soon as i try, you drop off the face of earth. If i am completely honest you're doing it again. I don't think btdt is mafia. I don't know if you think or do not think Rels is mafia. I have absolutely no idea where you actually stand in this game except that you think btdt is mafia. And it is worrying me because i am trying to find a mafia lynch where people can actually fucking agree on. I don't necessarily need you for doing that, but generally trust in your insight so i would rather have you help. And you not doing that is worrying me. And now i gotta fucking leave to work in 15 minutes. | ||
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On June 28 2017 18:44 Rels wrote: I'll make posts explaining my thoughts when I have the time IE tonight. The TLDR on Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that. I have opinion on BTDT. My opinion is that I'm conflicted. More on that tonight Attacking disfo when? On June 28 2017 20:29 disformation wrote: es, va, rayn what do you guys think abput btdt's eod yesterday? What about it? I have two reads from yesterday, i am gonna go more into that a bit later. | ||
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Rels can you give me examples of: Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that. please | ||
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Basically btdt thinks both Palmar and Skynx are mafia. He thinks Skynx is bussing Palmar and his conclusion is that he switches to Rels to bait Skynx into switching OFF from bussing! Basically btdt wanted to give Skynx ammo to lynch a non-scumread (or lesser scumread) rather than being fine with Skynx bussing his top scumread. There is no way a townie does that. | ||
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I am really interested in hearing why Rels thinks Skynx is town. | ||
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On June 29 2017 02:10 ruXxar wrote: My only sensible reasoning would be that both wagons are town, and that he doesn't care who gets lynched. Possibly this. I still don't get why doesn't he just sit on Palmar if that's the case. Well i am waiting for Rels' answers. | ||
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What does the "too easy" mean? That was literally the closest lynch possible. | ||
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On June 29 2017 02:26 Blazinghand wrote: I ALSO thought he didn't start playing until the start of day. Didn't you read anything I've written in the last 3 days? lol "That was literally the closest lynch possible" WHY DO YOU THINK THIS WAS THE CASE??? It was only close because I made it close, Rayn. It was 7-3 or 7-4 before I started my shenannies. See the first thing is the point. You thought he played well the last day, yet you sat on him until almost the EoD. You are right on the second point, what i said wasn't even meant to be true.  | ||
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- You had doubts on Palmar because his last day phase was good - You thought Rels is mafia Yet you sat on Palmar almost all day just to fuck up with everything in the last couple of minutes. How does that make any sense? | ||
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On June 29 2017 02:36 ruXxar wrote: Which means he basically had the shenannies planned beforehand. Thats fucking scummy if you ask me. That's not scummy in itself tbh. | ||
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On June 29 2017 02:50 ruXxar wrote: Bro, that post doesnt say shit about why you vote Palmar over Rels. Dude right now you're basically arguing BH made sense at the EoD and you think he is scum for it... | ||
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On June 29 2017 02:59 ruXxar wrote: Doesnt matter what peoples alignments are. What matters is what reason he has for dropping his convincing scum read on Rels and voting palmar. If he is town he should have a good reason for doing so. I can't remember him stating that anywhere. A couple of things: 1) It matters what alignments are. Scum are more likely wanting to keep their story straight. Bussing people when they are not gonna get lynched is what you want to do as mafia. If Rels is mafia with BH then your argument makes sense but then BH switching to Rels and making the vote super close doesn't make sense because again, he can just sit on Palmar. 2) I am not sure if you are right in how convincing his scumread was on either of the people, and that's the thing that matters regarding this argument. I don't have time to check that rn. | ||
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On June 29 2017 22:45 beentheredonethat wrote: If only I had let this pass. People would be all over Rels and the game would actually have a bit of sanity and decency to it but that witch hunter after btdt is just so amazingly bad there IS NO REASON TO SCUMREAD ME, DISFORMATION, AND YOU SAID IT SOME TIMES ALREADY, SAME AS RUXXAR, SAME AS FUCKING SKYNX YET SOMEHOW, A PLAY THAT I DID, CONCIOUSLY, TO FIND SCUM, MAKES ME SCUM? HOW CAN YOU ALL COME TO THAT CONCLUSION? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE? Because you try to find scum by lynching people who you think are town, and even then it doesn't further your case. Let's live in a world where you are right and Skynx is mafia and Rels is not. After what you did Skynx actually switches to Rels and says "yeah i couldn't vote with my top scumread btdt" or whatever you baited him into doing. Then Rels flips town. Then what? Your scumread Palmar still remains unknown. Is that better? You can't even blame Skynx for the lynch because you gave him a perfectly logical reason to lynch Rels. So what are you gonna do then and how does this further you figuring out the game? | ||
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On June 30 2017 02:40 disformation wrote: ah found it. before the btdt stuff happened you posted: what were/are you two reads from that eod? I thought Blazinghand is mafia and Rels is mafia. At the time i didn't really see any reason for btdt to do what he did as mafia so i couldn't understand why Rels called his read on btdt "conflicted". He definitely had read the EoD because he was around and even posted analysis on it. Then i realized i am probably wrong on something since i don't really think those three can be mafia together. I am currently trying to figure out where i am wrong. So i would like Rels to answer me what are those posts he talks about regarding Skynx and why does his read change. I'd rather not talk about Rels yet until he has answered me. Now let's assume i am right and those three are not the remaining mafia: That means there has to be at least 1 mafia in Skynx/FF/Ruxxar. All of those three are not being talked about at all. There are no really good reasons to townread FF and honestly i have forgotten about him after i thought sl had claimed to have the same check on him and Chezitwo. I still think Ruxxar is town but i havent really paid attention to his play after i concluded he is town early on (and also my top scumread Rels was calling him mafia so that would unlikely be a bus). Have you read Ruxxar lately? I don't even rememeber why Rels called him mafia but i thought the reasons were bad -- and he also had "yet to read Ruxxar's filter".... Do you think Skynx can be scum with btdt? Can this a yolo bus or just plain out "i try to lynch this townie"? I mean btdt is kinda right in that Skynx' EoD in fact DOES look bad? But i am conflicted on the fact why he would basically sacrifice himself to get Skynx town credit. Skynx doesn't really make sense to me as either alignment roff. I could use some help there. I am gonna talk more about Blazinghand when i get off work in the morning, i need to check if what he says makes sense in contrast to his posting and reads before the lynch throughout the day. Rels is right in that what Blazinghand did is not really alignment indicative in itself since he DOES do that as both alignments. He is also right in that in case he (Rels) is town then Blazinghand's actions make more sense to do as mafia, but the problem is he would also say that as mafia, obviously. | ||
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On June 30 2017 03:09 Rels wrote: yeah I wanted to make a case on BH + reread filters yesterday night. But my GF had other plans p: The case on balzinghand is irrelevant today. Tell me what i asked you about your Skynx read. | ||
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On June 30 2017 03:11 disformation wrote: bh not 100% sure yet, but his eod was also super weird. so i can see scum trying to setup some ml's and fucking up. makes also sense with a world where rels is town. That doesn't make any sense since whichever of Palmar / Rels gets lynched the other one is already a mislynch #1. That's why i am conflicted on why what BOTH btdt and BH did on EoD. There has to be a reason, and "setuping a mislynch on Rels/Palmar the next day" is not a conclusion 100%. | ||
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disformation make Rels answer this Skynx thing if you have time. | ||
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On July 01 2017 08:11 disformation wrote: also sry at palmar for not listening to you last day phase. Palmars read was still based on bad stuff. You nailed him by his eod. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MOuyQGD.jpg) I mean the reasoning, where it came from and if it is between the first and last post it is most likely bullshit. | ||
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Basically Rels calls Skynx "not sure if mafia" in his post [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/523282-tl-mafia-lxxv?page=266#5317]#5317[/ur]. All the things Rels say make Skynx town in this post: [spoiler][QUOTE]On June 30 2017 03:02 Rels wrote: [QUOTE]On June 29 2017 01:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: okay disformation shut up on this. Rels can you give me examples of: [quote]Skynx is his continuous investigative tone + how he thinks about the game, trying to find teams that makes sense + attacking disfo when it makes no sense to do that.[/quote] please[/QUOTE] For the tone, it's basically the whole shitfight with BTDT, where he is seems much more natural than BTDT. Thinking about what team makes sense + attacking disfo, it's these posts where he suddenly townreads BTDT when he doesn't need to as scum, then doesn't buddy town leaders: [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 04:08 Skynx wrote: [QUOTE]On June 22 2017 18:48 beentheredonethat wrote: [QUOTE]On June 22 2017 08:01 Half the Sky wrote: [center]Final Vote Count - Day 3[/center] Grackaroni (9): ruXxar, sicklucker (3): Palmar (2): VayneAuthority (1): Grackaroni disformation (0): Rels (0): Fecalfeast (0): Skynx (0): raynpelikoneet (0): ruXxar (0): beentheredonethat (0): Half the Sky is throwing Grackaroni out of her whiskey bar.[/QUOTE] Observations: 1 Pretty much uncontested Grack wagon 2 Votes in hammer range on town: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand 3 Irrelevant votes: raynpelikoneet, Palmar (starting with Rayn as hammer because Fecalfeast was originally part of the Grack wagon) 4 "Counter wagon" votes: Rels, Skynx, Chezitwo 5 Wasted votes: disformation, (Fecalfeast) re: 1) Having an uncontested wagon where no big discussion is revolving around pretty much means it's a town wagon. However, I think there was actually a lot of discussion in the past day, especially started by Rels. I am town reading Rels right now; he came out of the lurker shadows to actually talk. I also like his fighting with rayn and I'm super worried about rayn not being the town super hero that pushes people around. So Rels up, rayn down, although I gotta admit I haven't looked too deeply into the fight these two have. My association between Skynx and Grack was obviously wrong. Nevertheless I find it super suspicious that Skynx chimed in, threw around some shade, later on pissed off, let the Grack lynch happen without really putting in work to push the sicklucker lynch. I am sure that there is scum on the Grack wagon and I am fairly certain that not all scummers are on that wagon; and Skynx' vote feels off. We have two mislynches as someone pointed out; so a vig shot (if available) gets more and more risky - but Skynx is a decent target. But I'm super super super afraid here. Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince (voted super late each time) Town should be: disformation (mehhhhhhhh, and only if he doesn't die this night lol, and town rage), Chezitwo (mainly based on D2), Rels (based on D3) Meh: Palmar, Tumblewood, Blazinghand, ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority, sicklucker, rayn I hope I didn't forget anyone. re: 2) These three players were basically the ones who sealed the Grack lynch: Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand. All of them will be moved to the scum pool for that: Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince, Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand Town should be: disformation, Chezitwo, Rels Meh: Palmar, ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority, rayn So without further ado, they come into the scum pool. re: 3) Same as 2), can just be scum chiming in. Scum pool: Skynx, Eversince, Tumblewood, sicklucker, Blazinghand, Palmar, rayn Town should be: disformation, Chezitwo, Rels Meh: ruxxar, Fecalfeast, VayneAuthority re: 4) Rels pushing sicklucker matches what he did all D2. I don't think that this is scum pushing a second town wagon here. So if Rels would be scum, then sicklucker would most likely also be scum and we have a bus attempt to get town cred, which IMHO is a rather bad and useless bus because there's no way Rels gains towncred from this vote if sicklucker flips scum at any point. Skynx' vote on the other hand isn't as solid als Rels' vote. He not voting Grack (although he did say something about voting Grack, or am I wrong there?) is actually scum indicative here as he pretty much wasted his vote, putting it on unflipped instead of townflip. I'm certain Skynx is scum. Chezitwo voting sicklucker - mehhhhhhhhhhhhh. Given how super eager he was to lynch Xata over Xata's cop claim, I don't know why he voted sicklucker here and kinda wasted his vote. I need to check the context of that vote as well as the reasoning. NAI imho but I'm not too sure. I don't have too many townreads so I'll keep him on the list "just cause" but I am indeed a bit paranoid. re: 5) The only thing that comes to my mind is that disfo said early D3 that he'd end up voting Grackaroni anyways. Not sure what to make out of that but it striked me as weird. [/QUOTE] [bolded]You know what btdt is town, All of the previous day he associated me with Grack, actually believing Grack is mafia and obv ready to lynch me after Grack flips scum. If he's scum he obv knows Grack's gona flip town so this doesn't make sense from his pow. Ofc this is fakeable but just fits more to tunneled bad town imo. Imagine i switched to grack, he's still gona sr me. He's just tunneled for whatever reason and doesn't want to drop his shitty read on me and look bad so comes up with bunch of shade throwing. I'm gona ignore him for now cuz he's irritating.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 04:41 Skynx wrote: I disagree strongly with BH on [quote] Remember, during a period of time, SL had flipped and we were trying to reason things out. Scum, we can now reasonably infer, had shot Chez and noticed it failed, and on top of that, that SL who they did not shoot has flipped. Scum doesn't know what happened, what prots if any went on, who shot whom, etc. This was exciting and interesting news for town, and confusing news for scum, what happened with the D1 flip. After the VA claim, scum had a lot more information to work on and probably came out of the woodwork, and after the ES claim, they were safe to operate and make statements with surety about what checks they were opearing against, and to bus/not bus etc. I think scum had every motivation in the world to NOT be posting right after that flip. It would be very risky. So the people who dove into convo with me, FF, Disfo, and Ruxxar, are highly unlikely to be scum in my view. [/quote] In fact at least 1 scum would prolly pop in and comment on stuff without committing so clearing people this way is not the best idea, especially the first hours of the day where people are discussing mechanics.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 06:11 Skynx wrote: Fefe i dont like since D1 but cant really put together a case either. He is around and when he talks he makes sense but not in a game solving way if that makes sense. I'm gona have to filter dive people at some point. Hope Palmar is mafia and not 3P otherwise im pretty lost since now i tr btdt. Ruxxar is still very town so fefe/rels as scum on annul makes sense but now 3 votes piled up on rels all of a sudden when previously most ppl whos not rayn was tring him. I like rayn but not yet convinced on rels. You being alive this late in the game is also not a good sign disfo.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 06:18 Skynx wrote: [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 06:17 disformation wrote: [QUOTE]On June 27 2017 06:11 Skynx wrote: Fefe i dont like since D1 but cant really put together a case either. He is around and when he talks he makes sense but not in a game solving way if that makes sense. I'm gona have to filter dive people at some point. Hope Palmar is mafia and not 3P otherwise im pretty lost since now i tr btdt. Ruxxar is still very town so fefe/rels as scum on annul makes sense but now 3 votes piled up on rels all of a sudden when previously most ppl whos not rayn was tring him. I like rayn but not yet convinced on rels. You being alive this late in the game is also not a good sign disfo.[/QUOTE] why?[/QUOTE] You've been the town pillar since D1, i expect them to shoot you at some point but they haven't so.[/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] ..in fact happen before [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/523282-tl-mafia-lxxv?page=284#5661]#5661[/url] where he again calls Skynx mafia. Basically he has the reasons to townread Skynx alredy, yet he doesn't do that until btdt's actions make Skynx likely to be town. I am still on the boat for btdt fucking up and Rels realizing he cannot scumread Skynx anymore and making up reasons (since the reasoning looks very made up from looking at his filter and seeing where he has stood on Skynx) for the read. I mean, if that is the reason for townreading Skynx, why not say "i townread Skynx for this and that" before? Instead he called Skynx possible mafia until btdt's flip. That could also make sense but ONLY in case Rels thinks (at the time his read changes) that btdt is mafia, which he also didn't. I think it makes him scum.[/quote] | ||
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Okay i am back, i checked it myself. Basically Rels calls Skynx "not sure if mafia" in his post #5317. All the things Rels say make Skynx town in this post: + Show Spoiler + On June 30 2017 03:02 Rels wrote: For the tone, it's basically the whole shitfight with BTDT, where he is seems much more natural than BTDT. Thinking about what team makes sense + attacking disfo, it's these posts where he suddenly townreads BTDT when he doesn't need to as scum, then doesn't buddy town leaders: ..in fact happen after #5317 and before #5661 where he again calls Skynx mafia. Basically he has the reasons to townread Skynx alredy, yet he doesn't do that until btdt's actions make Skynx likely to be town. I am still on the boat for btdt fucking up and Rels realizing he cannot scumread Skynx anymore and making up reasons (since the reasoning looks very made up from looking at his filter and seeing where he has stood on Skynx) for the read. I mean, if that is the reason for townreading Skynx, why not say "i townread Skynx for this and that" before? Instead he called Skynx possible mafia until btdt's flip. That could also make sense but ONLY in case Rels thinks (at the time his read changes) that btdt is mafia, which he also didn't. I think it makes him scum. | ||
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I am still gonna make this sure and check if what he said about shennies makes sense based on his earlier reads. | ||
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You know what btdt is town, All of the previous day he associated me with Grack, actually believing Grack is mafia and obv ready to lynch me after Grack flips scum. If he's scum he obv knows Grack's gona flip town so this doesn't make sense from his pow. Ofc this is fakeable but just fits more to tunneled bad town imo. Imagine i switched to grack, he's still gona sr me. He's just tunneled for whatever reason and doesn't want to drop his shitty read on me and look bad so comes up with bunch of shade throwing. I'm gona ignore him for now cuz he's irritating. Skynx townreads btdt for stuff. The stuff isn't even that strong. Rels thinks (still after btdt flip) that this makes Skynx town. In fact at least 1 scum would prolly pop in and comment on stuff without committing so clearing people this way is not the best idea, especially the first hours of the day where people are discussing mechanics. How is this insightful? Did Skynx follow this up? I don't see Rels commenting on the follow up or calling it a townie post because this definitely needs a follow up. This post is just saying "scum did most likely this" which anyone can do. Ruxxar is still very town so fefe/rels as scum on annul makes sense but now 3 votes piled up on rels all of a sudden when previously most ppl whos not rayn was tring him. I like rayn but not yet convinced on rels. You being alive this late in the game is also not a good sign disfo. Two things here: Skynx thinks three people piling up on Rels gives him doubts. Those three people are rayn / ruxxar / Vayneauthority. How is this insightful? Skynx townreads all the people piling up on Rels, yet Rels just townreads him for it??? I see a buddybuddy attempt here tbh. You've been the town pillar since D1, i expect them to shoot you at some point but they haven't so. Attacking disfo because he is alive is townie how? | ||
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we have a mislynch right? | ||
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On July 02 2017 05:58 Blazinghand wrote: Wedding is on, guys. I'll be phone only for about 24h. I think we got this wrapped up post a pic to confirm | ||
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It needs to have you, todays newspaper and the bride, preferrably some bridesmades too. | ||
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On July 02 2017 06:58 disformation wrote: first bunch of quotes: fefe say he might be willing to sheep palmar's case on btdt is also fine with voting rels sheeps me on palmar then gets mad cold feet at eod but does nothing despite being willing to vote rels earlier.. Okay what does he do after the deadline regarding btdt? | ||
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On July 02 2017 06:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay what does he do after the deadline regarding btdt? Even before the deadline.... On June 28 2017 07:45 Fecalfeast wrote: I forgot about skynx Skynx are you scum? I promise not to tell Can you explain this FF? | ||
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On June 29 2017 03:17 Fecalfeast wrote: Ruxxar is scum i think and this. Dude you jsut called everyone except for me, disformation and VA mafia --- who are not Rels and btdt who you called mafia earlier. | ||
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I have a feeling this game is solved. | ||
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On June 30 2017 00:00 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh man va being scum has been a nagging possibility to me all game... discout VA too... | ||
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On June 30 2017 03:02 Fecalfeast wrote: So wait btdt... You just said va is scum, disfo is scum, then rels bh rayn skynx ruxx and ff are all lynchable... Who's left? Really at this point you should have a townread right? one word, irony | ||
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disformation, if youre alive and i am not please check the BH stuff tomorrow. Check if what he said after Palmar lynch about the shennies makes sense or not by contrasting it to the stuff he has been talking about earlier (Rels/Palmar and how strong his reads are based on his posts). + Show Spoiler + also make him post the pic to prove he is at a wedding | ||
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On July 02 2017 07:06 disformation wrote: lemme double check the night before the btdt lynch in fefe's filter I can tell you what you'll find. He called everyone except us 2 mafia. | ||
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On June 28 2017 04:21 Blazinghand wrote: good point BTDT we don't want FF to overreact to small amounts of pressure I don't know why BH would ever say this regardless of FF's alignment in case he is mafia with btdt. | ||
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On June 28 2017 07:23 Blazinghand wrote: So so far you have argued: 1) you're town and rels is scum and my push on you is bad so I'm scum 2) if you flip scum I am scum 3) if Rels flips scum I am scum ??? If BH is scum why does he say this and THEN tries to get Rels lynched? When Rels flips whatever, this is not good for BH knowing Palmar is town. | ||
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That's good you almost got me convinced, now can you make a Onegu style video? | ||
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Can you do the same i asked BH? | ||
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shhhh dont tell him that... | ||
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yes | ||
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I was just having fun. | ||
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On July 03 2017 05:46 Fecalfeast wrote: The way I see it it's probably skynx from an effort put into scumhunting perspective. I'm also wary of this rels lynch solely based on how you and skynx are both setting me up for next day making me think the mafia knows this will be a mislynch and then I am the game winning ezpz mislynch. However I am still scumreadig rels and to switch for paranoias sake seems silly. So probably skynx but I've hardly been scumhunting so take that with a grain of salt If Skynx is mafia why does btdt do what he does near eod of Palmar lynch? | ||
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On July 03 2017 22:28 Rels wrote: then we have you, who is unable to see that I'm not scum. Who doesn't get shot over disfo even though nobody scumreads you anymore. And that's working. If you somehow happen to be town don't you fucking dare to throw this on me when you have been probably the most irrational player in the game since fucking forever. Like even if i was to discout the stuff you did D3 and before you called a dude town for the posts that weren't townie at all in your opinion until... wanna guess?.. mr. btdt got lynched. That thing in itself is so convenient for mafia. There is like 0% chance a townie ever ever ever does that. 0%. I am not going to believe that. | ||
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Is Literally The Most Contradicting Thing In This Game Period. | ||
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On July 03 2017 22:50 Rels wrote: I am totally doing it.I'm not irrational as scum. You can't get me on stuff like that. I wanted to lynch BH instead of Palmar and disfo and you didn't want to. And i am totally voting for you for it. And yes you are irrational at times. Especially when you make shit up on me. | ||
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On July 03 2017 22:59 Rels wrote: and I remember you calling people stupid for not lynching Palmar in the OUTLAW game when all the killed townies were scumreading him and what does that have to do with anything in this game? | ||
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On July 03 2017 23:03 Rels wrote: just showing that you're inconsistent. Not that I think it makes you scum. No nothing. do you realize that "people who scumread you die" != "you are alive and people townread you" ?????? | ||
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On July 03 2017 23:09 Rels wrote: 'cause you said: "I am never gonna go into an argument why someone is alive over someone". Yet in the OUTLAW obs you raged about people not lynching Palmar when dead people were scumreading him. I still dont see how that has anything to do with this game. If you think so then explain it in clear words. Again, if you are trying to say that i should townread you because i didn't die over disformation then don't bother. | ||
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Why would you ever, at N2, think "fuck someone who doesn't scumread me"? I was the only dude really scumreading you back then - and i honestly hadn't even done shit by that time. disformation scumread you. disformation scumread you, FF and BH (although from his latest posts it seemed like he was the most sure about FF). But he still scumread you. So what is this "mafia is killing people who don't scumread me" thingy? Why do you think other people consider you an auto lynch? I don't consider you an auto lynch but youre not helping yourself much.... Well i have to say based on latest stuff i kinda do consider you auto lynch. | ||
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On July 03 2017 23:38 Rels wrote: well that's what I thought N2. And you can not agree with that, but it makes sense that it's what's happening. Everything is going smoothly It doesnt make sense Rels. It cannot make sense because it is not what's happening and it's provable. | ||
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On July 03 2017 23:25 Rels wrote: That makes a lot of sense to me. This is the game plan scum are going for to go to LYLO. IDK if they're in a good position or not - if it's BH / ruxxar they're not really, if it's BH / FF they're better. can you explain this too. | ||
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N1: Holyflare Koshi Who in this game (assuming mafia) can say those two people are not reasonable kills? N2: darthfoley - unlynchable Vivax ???????? N3: Chezitwo - basically unlynchable N4: Eversince - claimed tracker N5: disforamtion - basically unlynchable I don't really see any "master plan" here. I would probably make all those kills myself except for Vivax ( i think i would shoot Palmar if i was mafia -- not necessarily N2 but at some point because Palmar would totally give me a headache alive). It is just killing people who are confirmed blue or people who you can't lynch, ever. There is nothing more to it. Now why are you trying to make this some plan that no other mafia team can do? It doesn't make any sense to me. Let's assume you are town. Who would you have killed throughout the game? | ||
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N3: Chezitwo - basically unlynchable N4: Chezitwo again N5: Eversince - claimed tracker N6: disforamtion - basically unlynchable | ||
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Why is BH/ruxxar in a worse position than BH/FF are assuming you are town? Everyone and their mother will lynch BH/FF if you flip town, even disformation. That doesnt make any sense. | ||
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On July 04 2017 00:11 Rels wrote: Dunno, it depends on who the other scum are. If you're not, definitely you over all these people. Never Vivax, especially N2 when he is nice to me + wants to pressure SL like I do. Never Chezitwo over a tracker that I cannot block, when Chezitwo is nice to me. Never disfo over you or VA. Can you show me a game where you have NK'd me? How did you know Eversince is a tracker on N3? | ||
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On July 04 2017 00:17 VayneAuthority wrote: oh right I completely forgot about that. Whoever the scum team is willingly let the tracker get another check and killed chezitwo over them, what the fuck lol. and she tracked rels going nowhere which is meaningless since he was under huge suspicion anyway, but wow at that. I guess that would point towards a more inexperienced scum team She tracked Rels on N3 when you shot SL and mafia shot Chezitwo the first time if i remember correctly. N4 Chezitwo got shot again. Eversince never claimed who she tracked before getting shot on N5. | ||
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You are saying it is somehow weird Chez got shot (again) over claimed tracker. | ||
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okay, right. | ||
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On July 04 2017 01:06 Rels wrote: well I know there is no town prot role now. But yeah that might be why Chez got shot a second time over ES who just claimed; 'cause scum thought she was going to be protected if there was a doc. that just happened now come to your mind? like that chez might have tmi because he replaced marv? | ||
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On July 04 2017 01:09 Rels wrote: well yeah. I know now that there is no doc, how? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7IqWEkd.jpg) #townbros #sosorry #lynchBlazinghand | ||
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On July 05 2017 03:51 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah :/ Thought I'd give smurfing another try now that I don't have that much time anymore. Didn't particularly try to hide my identity though which is why I was really surprised noone actually knew it except for HF. Oh i never really cared aside figuring out you're good. | ||
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On July 05 2017 04:55 Holyflare wrote: town could/should have easily won this game though which is sad even with all the mafia favoured things but a lot of people just didn't care to interact and just yelled or afkd/wanted to auto lynch through a list which has never ever worked in any game Thats always why towns do not win games tbh. | ||
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On July 05 2017 05:08 justanothertownie wrote: The unprompted clarification of the strongarm role by the hosts in the scum qt is something that should never be done either btw. Correct. Not that i have sticked with my "decision" anyways but still correct. | ||
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I probably made like 3 posts as i got fucked by double 18h workdays. I have honestly never ever missed a vote before and i feel kinda cheap for that even though i basically couldnt do anything about it. I just fell asleep instantly when i got home. | ||
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I only read why Rels voted for him but that didn't make any sense to me. I understand his point but if annul was mafia and wanted Xatalos to vote for sicklucker he should assume there is no way it happens the way he did it because what he did is more likely to spawn a vote on him than on sicklucker from Xatalos. I know that's what annul was in fact trying to do and Rels was right in that sense but just don't think mafia could ever think like that. | ||
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"btw, there is a sequence in your filter on the day Palmar gets lynched starting from here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5232...-lxxv?page=278#5546 ... where you imply you think btdt is mafia, then you say Rels is probably better lynch than Palmar, but your vote ends up on Palmar. You might want to think how you are gonna explain that in case someone finds it. I went to your filter doing the analysis i was supposed to and i was like "fuuuuuck i cant do this". " On July 06 2017 11:03 Tumblewood wrote: gg anyway. i felt more like a spectator than a player but it was a pretty sweet game to watch. a fun group of players I think you did fine in a sense that noone really heavily considered you as mafia. You just got unfortunately fucked by PR's. At least i thought, at that point, that you are the last one of us to go down. | ||
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On July 06 2017 11:33 Blazinghand wrote: It's cause nobody wanted to actually play after a certain point in the game, they were sold on BTDT and then autolynched into Rels without thinking But that was a point when Palmar was alive and made a case on btdt who you thought was mafia. Why would you vote for Palmar instead of Rels there? (this was quite early in the day people lynched Palmar) | ||
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On July 06 2017 20:42 Holyflare wrote: In hindsight rayn is a pretty easy catch when he was hard defending sl (when nobody else was) but then kept asking what the case was. Don't think town rayn wouldn't know what it was ever. idk, might be , might not. I genuinely went to read what was said about him and didnt understand it. The only thing i understood was Rels' "he did townie things on D1" and i was like "umm what??".... I also genuinely do not pay attention to players i townread (early on) in big games. I mean, i try to develop townreads and then if it looks like those townreads are not helping me, or i feel so, i just ignore them and focus on other stuff. Although you are most likely right i prolly would have payed a bit more attention to the sicklucker case. I also dont play against dead players, i thought i could get away with what i did with the living players. There were probably many things that could have caught me, my unwillingness to read BH filter properly on the day Rels was lynched was definitely one. I was just 99% certain i don't 99% have to do it adn the game ends OR people are even scumreading FF over BH so i just rolled with it as i think IF i had done even semi-proper analysis on BH it would have hurt us more than not doing it. | ||
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On July 06 2017 20:35 ruXxar wrote: Also I have a surefire way to tell if Rayn is town or mafia now. You probably don't. Because noone has, except for marv. | ||
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Probably would as mafia, definitely would as town, if it was what Holyflare said in obs. | ||
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Basically, after i saw Xatalos (who was supposed to be our endgame dude originally) is fucked i just shot people i couldn't lynch and/or who are good and can figure me out and win 1v1 argument, except for Palmar because he was not active enough to have credit. Although in case Palmar was not lynched the day he was i would have had to shoot him the next night. | ||
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and because of what you just said, your "problem" with your play is that you try to do so much stuff you never get anything done. I never felt like you were a threat regardless of what your reads were since you werent really pushing anything, you were just pointing out stuff. ^^Also lol at your "wow i almost made mafia strongman me". You are forgetting that was the dude who also wanted to strongman darthfoley after we had checked him as VT..... When you softed vet i was sure you are NOT a vet, anything else but NOT a vet. ^_^ | ||
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See for example how i talked with Rels the last day. I was never ever trying to do anything. I knew he is gonna get lynched if i just stall and stall and stall and make him talk about nothing relevant because i know he can't resist the "let's argue" argument.. If that was not LYLO i would never ever even do that as mafia because any smart person realizes at least 1 irl day after that all i was doing was making the game unplayable for him (well partly also his fault but still -- when he flips town you see that if youre smart and know what you're doing).Same applied to you all game basically. Whenever you had one or two good things to talk about you also gave me like 10 other things i could pick up on and get your attention there instead of the good stuff. That's way harder if you are focusing on just a couple of things at a time, EVEN if you are wrong on the things you are focusing on. | ||
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Btw when i made my original case on Rels, on D3 or so, i am like 90% sure i would have amde the exact same case as town. I possibly would have later on reconsider the read, but the original read was something i think i would have made as town aswell since all the stuff Rels did i talked about made absolutely zero sense to me. | ||
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I guess that's what lynching Palmar gets you | ||
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On July 07 2017 01:28 Blazinghand wrote: Scumteam always seems obvious in hindsight. That's easy. Catching and lynching scum before the End Game post is the hard part. Whenever I win as scum everyone is like "yeah in retrospect BH was obvscum"—and perhaps I was, but only in retrospect. Actually when you replaced in i realized after Carnival Cruise i have succesfully determined your alignment before end game post every single game we have been together (sorry not every game, in that one big game i pushed you as scum but you were SK). Scary. | ||
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On July 07 2017 01:32 VayneAuthority wrote: its actually viable in this game though since you were the next lynch and we got fucked by some closed setup normal game strongarm bs and yes im salty that a role/echanic I didn't even know existed was in a normal game strongman is pretty normal mechanic. although i agree it should be a player-related, aka trackable/watchable. untrackable GF in this game was too much i agree, otherwise the balance was fine. | ||
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