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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On June 07 2017 02:40 Conversion wrote:
I'm here.
I'm keeping my vote on Vivax until something else happens
I agree with people that the play is probably lynch Vivax -> watch flip -> go from there.
If he's actually going to do something besides AFK I can change my vote, but I have my doubts
Endorsed
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why would vivax trade himself for holyflare if vivax was scum?
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i mean just saying but he claimed cop and noone counter claimed so in my understanding we should lynch HF and then lynch Vivax if HF doesn't flip red, right?
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i mean it's holyflare it's not blue it's holyflare
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"lynch the cop claim" like you never lynch the cop claim, right?
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if i missed some super obvious points let me know (and no hf I dont think that the "BS claim" thingy is a super clear slip)
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On June 06 2017 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
This game could be really really fun if vivax turns out to be the real cop who green checked bh and is making a logic leap to calling me mafia because that means Tumblewood is mafia.
That's the dream.
So you're even paranoid about Tumble's claim not being true although he's un-cc'ed.
Or is he and I'm dumb?
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yea I believe you
honestly if we lynch vivax at this point and he flips cop are we even in a terrible spot? we lynch HF tomorrow which means we have 2 scum in 3 lynches, that seems pretty good for a worst case scenario
best case scenario is vivax is scum which is obv good, and lynching HF is bad because odds are vivax was going to be lynched at some point anyway
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I filtered conversion and beentheredonethat and here's my thoughts:
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I don't like how vivax/conversion left their votes on me, could definitely be a scum between them
filtering conversion
"Also, I understand that your timezone doesn't match up with the start of the game, but what are you going to get by pushing me, who is not experienced at all at Mafia, and making me post more? What about the other half of the thread that isn't making any sort of post that you can push for more information as well?"
this seems really bad, he's basically saying - I'm not experienced at mafia so you can't push me -which is a really scummy defense, he's hiding behind being a newbie and basically announcing if he's not going to post the entire game it's cause he's a newbie so others should be pressed for it instead? that said he can actually be busy
Fidei was onto (TW + conversion) though, and it seemed like fidei was just pushing a bunch of townies although he could've slipped a scummate between them a well of course
"I'd also like to give Fidei the benefit of the doubt b/c I was cited in the past as acting pretty scummy here when I was floundering about from inactivity and lack of confidence. I would rather have on the board some confidence and a deconstruction of my post from Fidei to support your scumtell so you can push it harder to let me argue and refine your read on me."
"yet btdt and fidei are readily pressuring me either for explaining my situation, or calling me scummy by making conclusions from my post that I can't really see from rereading my post"
"Fidei might be scum, but I'm not sure. I find it really suspicious he's not giving me a benefit of the doubt and looking to push me as scum with one post on my end. Not saying I deserve a free town pass because I suck and I'm a newbie, but my experience in 2012 showed me that most experienced players ignored me as just that: a newbie until it became important for me to step up and contribute."
I can't make sense of his flipflopping + undecisiveness on fidei,
"PB are your thoughts on BTDT the same? I honestly don't see how his play works out by tunneling me-- I think it's just a weak play at best if I end up getting lynched and flipping town, so I'm inclined to believe he's town but idk. I don't think lynching him today is going to get us anywhere, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on it."
really is this guy just not giving opinions on all his scummates (fide+btdt)?
"The two I think are Mafia are BH and TW.
TW because I didn't like any of his posts about town reads. He generally seems rather disinterested in doing anything on doing any useful reads, lazily labels people as town, doesn't build a case on anyone, and doesn't seem to do much except make the occassional post here and there.
I still find BH's play super weird-- comical or not (which I can't tell), he's been doing nothing as well and with the arguments happening here, I feel like making posts for people to push/question is the way to clear yourself up.
The last one is a pretty big tossup, but I'm leaning towards PB. He hasn't changed his view on BTDT and put off his analysis, but I'm not very confident on this one."
Alright so basically he keeps summing up arguments for fidei/btdt scum....except he never goes for it. then his scumreads are on people I townread (TW+BH) and suddenly he's more confident. He then chainsaw defends btdt by saying he's leaning towards me, because he's not confident in my analysis.... but where's btdt/fidei on his list? and he liked me earlier, why the 180? why is he not confident in my analysis? no explanation, esp since he thought btdt could be scum, me thinking btdt is scum shouldn't make him jump from btdt to me without a good reason, right?
"Also I don't think BTDT is mafia, which I mentioned at least once already. just that the tunnel on me felt weird, which is why I asked PB about his opinion on him"
"I'm placing a vote on PB.
I don't know if I should lynch TW with a blue claim, and for some reason BH is being fought over and makes me doubt if I'll really get anything out of a D1 lynch who made almost no informative posts and people fighting over his meta, which I have no idea about
PB still isn't here 24 mins before the deadline, so there's my vote. I'm boarding a flight now so I won't be available until after night."
this just seems like an easy vote, I'm not there so vote me for it,
"PrisonBreak:
I really, really dislike his play. IDK if that’s because he’s just busy, he’s not caring as much about this game, or he’s scum trying to fly under the radar. I’m seeing a lot of disingenuous posts from him (saying he will post his reads later, still hasn’t done so) and then blames his inactivity based on something “not happening” when he checks the thread. Before the deadline he makes two posts on the vote count, doesn’t do anything to dissuade votes off of him, and doesn’t make any informative posts (Onegu/Tubesock is town—Onegu lead the “shenanigan” lynch whatever that is, Tumblewood is town). Questions Grack, makes some prods at BTDT and leaves.
His play looks really sloppy from what he did in Generic II, but honestly there were some easy questions I made to you that you could have answered way before deadline was approaching. I asked you to post reads and asked you why you still think BTDT is scum, and he just disappeared and posted whatever he did before deadline.
Really suspicious to me."
I'm not sure what this is but for some reason he keeps tunneling me without coming to conclusions. And it does't seem to fit his earlier stances (on me being town, btdt possible scum) in the slightest. He also mentions vivax which I mentioned as possibly scum - although I'll give him that idk if I said that prior to this, I think I mentioned it before though.
More importantly... he townreads people that lead the fidei lynch... and doesn't mention at all that I wanted fidei dead and fidei wanted me dead which was maybe the first thing to actually happen this game between fidei and someone else.... very suspicious to ignore this in his "analysis"
"OK so I avoided reading TW because I thought he'd get NK'd with his doctor claim.. do we lynch him?"
This is pretty bad
like I understand that if one of (vivax, HF) is scum, then it can't be btdt+conversion, but my scumread on conversion isn't really based off associations with btdt. more about associations with fidei. like this guy outright townreads fidei which he initially scumreads without giving a proper reasoning, and pushes townies instead. I know I'm town and I townread most people he actually pushed as well.
that said he does want to lynch vivax. but if he's mafia and knows HF isn't scum, then he'd want to lynch vivax as well, so idk if that's relevant.
yea what do people think about conversion? I don't want to fall into scumreading him for being a newbie, but I think he's definitely a consideration for scum
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beentheredonethat still looks extremely bad. "I'm super fine with lynching PB, this guy smells like scum. The overall tone of his post is so super soft, so not-pushy, so calm, so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
really lynch pb" he just hosted a game in which I took firm stances. so he should know this isn't a scumtell, besides, I don't think I was non-pushy at all. I pretty much pushed fidei/btdt + gave townreads and he is OMGUS'ing me at best. Going through his filter I don't see a moment where I should suddenly townread him,
"
Here's where I'm at:
(no particular order right now)
Don't lynch:
Vivax
Fidei
Lynch:
Prison Break
+ Show Spoiler +
Tubesock
+ Show Spoiler +
Others:
Conversion - hmm. His filter is full of stuff, so there's more to read into, so I'd just wait a bit. The mobile stuff still makes me headache and I think he's getting away too easy with some stuff but I realize that this is super generic. I'm not filter diving him right now. "
this looks extremely bad and it connects him with Conversion the same way Conversion connects to him
"I still think PB is scum tho :O
And HF might also be because he was super duper late on Fidei"
Ignores the fidei flip, obviously didnt look into my or fideis filter to see the interactions between us. Just lazy continuig his push on me who was inactive at the moment. and his stance on HF would depend on HF's alignment so idk what that means until HF or vivax flip.
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where I'm at is beentheredonethat and conversion both look extremely scummy, I would call them a scumteam if we didn't have vivax vs HF right now. If there's any way vivax+hf is town vs town then I'd say btdt + conversion as the team. if not it could still be one of them + (vivax or hf). probably vivax then.
I'm going to filter vivax grackaroni and HF next though
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Hahahahahahahahhaahah
there's a red check and a claim to vote for and PB is like "nah fuckit I'll vote btdt"
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sorry about the long posts btw :/
I should use bulletpoints, spoilers etc. more
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
So BTDT "why would vivax trade himself for holyflare if vivax was scum?" is implying that Vivax wasn't already gonna be lynched today. You of course had Vivax in your "don't lynch" list but let's imagine that he was 100% doomed today. If he was in fact 100% gonna be lynched, as scum, why NOT try to take down HF first?
Another way to look at it was "We're either lynching Vivax or HF today, who is scummier?" and I think the obvious answer is Vivax, even accounting for the cop claim.
It's entirely possible Vivax is in fact the town cop (or a vanilla townie who's just really mad at HF or something). But his play makes sense from the PoV of low-effort scum who can't be arsed to play the game, thinks he's dead no matter what, but wants to try to take someone down with him.
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On June 07 2017 03:06 beentheredonethat wrote:
Hahahahahahahahhaahah
there's a red check and a claim to vote for and PB is like "nah fuckit I'll vote btdt"
If you read my posts you'd see I'm like "waiting for vivax to respond and if not I will decide between vivax and HF today"
anyway I laid down my case on you and conversion
vivax/HF will resolve itself, that doesn't mean we should not try to find the 3rd mafia?
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honestly if we lynch vivax at this point and he flips cop are we even in a terrible spot? we lynch HF tomorrow which means we have 2 scum in 3 lynches, that seems pretty good for a worst case scenario
best case scenario is vivax is scum which is obv good, and lynching HF is bad because odds are vivax was going to be lynched at some point anyway
If he flips cop, we don't have a cop.
Next kill would then most likely be Tumblewood (if he's indeed doc) because doc would save the cop.
If all those claims are real, ofc.
If HF flips green, we can lynch a scum tomorrow. Which is super fine. We don't lose the cop.
I just don't understand how a sane person can prefer the un-cc'ed cop lynch over the claimed check lynch. Even if HF isn't scum, we get Vivax. In both cases it's a bit coinflippy but why the hell would you start with the potential cop and not with the potential scum?
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if vivax flips cop we lynch HF and are down to 1 scum, which seems fine
I have more of a problem if vivax is town fake claiming, I want to eliminate that possibility first so I want him to come in and confirm his claim / or retract it
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On June 07 2017 03:07 Blazinghand wrote:
So BTDT "why would vivax trade himself for holyflare if vivax was scum?" is implying that Vivax wasn't already gonna be lynched today. You of course had Vivax in your "don't lynch" list but let's imagine that he was 100% doomed today. If he was in fact 100% gonna be lynched, as scum, why NOT try to take down HF first?
Another way to look at it was "We're either lynching Vivax or HF today, who is scummier?" and I think the obvious answer is Vivax, even accounting for the cop claim.
It's entirely possible Vivax is in fact the town cop (or a vanilla townie who's just really mad at HF or something). But his play makes sense from the PoV of low-effort scum who can't be arsed to play the game, thinks he's dead no matter what, but wants to try to take someone down with him.
I just don't understand how at the very beginning of a 48 hour phase, a lynch on Vivax is already locked and will happen 100% of the time. The "If" you say there is a super big one.
Also why not simply cc the doc in Tumblewood and argue people into that? Vivax should be capable of that.
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On June 07 2017 03:09 Prison Break wrote:
if vivax flips cop we lynch HF and are down to 1 scum, which seems fine
I have more of a problem if vivax is town fake claiming, I want to eliminate that possibility first so I want him to come in and confirm his claim / or retract it
If HF flips scum we have a cop and a claimed doctor to heal that cop to get an additional check.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On June 07 2017 03:05 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 21:09 Holyflare wrote:
This game could be really really fun if vivax turns out to be the real cop who green checked bh and is making a logic leap to calling me mafia because that means Tumblewood is mafia.
That's the dream. So you're even paranoid about Tumble's claim not being true although he's un-cc'ed. Or is he and I'm dumb?
Adding on to what I said above, with the lack of crumbs and so on, well... BASICALLY
Vivax's posts overnight:
On June 06 2017 13:26 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 12:53 Vivax wrote:
Morning.
I'm cop and redchecked HF (in spite of his BS vet claim at the end of the night).
Now what's going to happen is:
You're all going to go ham on whether cop and doc is likely in this setup.
Everyone will either vote HF or me as it should be.
At the end of the day nothing anyone ever said matters again and you will all just lynch another random person again in some attack of herd mentality (which is the prime reason I'm not happy with this game). And don't tell me that lynching fidei wasn't random as hell cause you were all literally just looking for someone else to lynch other than TW except for 1gu who actually had some real arguments.
Now I will park my vote on HF, and probably afk until the end of the day when I check in to see if he got lynched. I literally don't care who you vote, but it has to be one of us. Where's your crumb? Here are all the posts you made last night: Show nested quote +On June 05 2017 09:17 Vivax wrote:
Well I'm not mad cause BH is still mafia. If he is town I will be mad and bad, otherwise I feel no shame for defending fidei. Show nested quote +On June 05 2017 09:17 Vivax wrote:
So whoever wants to prove I'm bad has to lynch BH. 10/10 argument for lynching BH. Show nested quote +On June 06 2017 05:42 Vivax wrote:
Yea well if you think I'm mafia for afking this game shoot me tonight cause I'm pulling a rayn and will be afk.
Just gonna vote when either of HF or BH gets lynched and make a token post during the day.
Basically Vivax, if he is in fact the cop, it looks like he was checking either me or HF (since we're the people he mentioned overnight). He was talking about me mostly though so the "he checked BH, got Green, and now wants to lynch HF for TMI so is lying as cop" is a possibility. But not super likely. I think if he's cop and he had a green check on me he wouldn't claim a red check on HF.
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this whole case from PB is super unreadable, cluttered and it feels like there's more quotation than actual thinking.
im super content in lynching that guy, still, but not over hf
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On June 07 2017 03:10 beentheredonethat wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2017 03:09 Prison Break wrote:
if vivax flips cop we lynch HF and are down to 1 scum, which seems fine
I have more of a problem if vivax is town fake claiming, I want to eliminate that possibility first so I want him to come in and confirm his claim / or retract it If HF flips scum we have a cop and a claimed doctor to heal that cop to get an additional check.
Depends on if HF is the RB or not. In this scenario, Mafia RB, if still alive, can RB the doc and shoot the cop. That being said, there is SOMETHING to be said for "all things being absolutely equal, it's probably better to lynch HF first since it'd give us an extra cop check if he's the RB" so this is a valid point
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It's super fishy that noone is inclined to believe that claim especially since Vivax just pissed off and doesn't care about this game. I'm fairly certain he's not the guy to leave his teammates alone and fuck off of the sinking ship
also keep in mind yes one scum is down but we have wonky claims in tw/vivax, we have players that are super capable of bussing (BH/Onegu) and there's a lot of things to be paranoid about. In no way is this going to be easy, especially if we lynch Vivax and he flips cop because hell HF is capable of talking himself out of a check. In a cop/doc situation, a framer might be in, right?
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EPT
