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On November 05 2016 03:51 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 03:48 darthfoley wrote:
Damn it mahrgell i was hoping you wouldn't post something pro-town Because now you have to fake re-evaluating your reads?  I agree that mahrgell's post is extremely townie though. He's basically saying "I want to be taken seriously and don't like people using the noob card on me" which is the exact opposite of what scum in his situation would do imo.
Yes, I agree. I'm also somewhat between slightly and kind of annoyed that as soon as ExO flipped, almost everyone peaced
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On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote:
God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot.
So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache.
Carry on.
Thanks for your summary. Really in depth
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Gonna be gone until late afternoon. Football game yo
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i'm really sorry, catching up now with the thread. Has been a long day for me.
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My current mafiametric/reads after seeing mahrgell flip town is something like this.
TOWN
Calix, NU
Ticktock
Rels/Foreman
Skynx
MAFIA
I liked points 3 and 4 of mahrgell's post re Skynx a lot:
On November 05 2016 23:20 mahrgell wrote:Okay, lets make a tldr of my own post regarding Skynx and why I scumread him: Links/quotes are in the long version above so I summarise here. I only linked those posts not used there. ... 3) His entire alignment towards me is unfounded: he suspects me, accepts my response, suddenly im Toptown, because "he likes my lists". At this time my main contribution was my case on Exo_ Yet he also townreads Exo, says there are no compelling arguments against him. A few minute later he asks for evidence against Exo_, and points out that 3 players, including me, have no reason at all to vote Exo. He may have missed my case, but then what made him toptown me? How can I be toptown because of my good posts, when those posts are directly attacking his other toptown. How can I be toptown when he calls me out for voting without reason? As the EoD happened, he again called Exo for his opinion on Foreman and me. What am I? toptown? scum? This falls back to 1) 4) His stance in the Exo lynch. He was most concerned about pointing out that he was 100% sure that Exo was town. He stated multiple times that he believes that the mislynch of Exo will show us a lot. Yet I fail to see any serious attempt to convince people to jump off the train. He somehow shaped up NU as alternative, but promised "to make a case against him during the night phase". He never tried to really convince anyone to join the NU train. Or does this count as effort? This again looks like what I pointed out in 1) He weakly defended Exo_ on emotional reasons, yet was 100% he was town. He later admitted that there was some reason in the cases against Exo_, his defense consisted only out of this. No reaching out to change it He was more concerned about being right than about saving someone he believed 100% to flip green.
In retrospect, Skynx's lame EoD push on NU was... lame. Didn't feel like he put in the effort necessary to try to get the lynch off of someone who he believed to be super town.
Also, his subsequent posts about NU seem off to me.
On November 05 2016 02:41 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 02:39 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:39 Skynx wrote:On November 05 2016 02:38 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:37 Tictock wrote:On November 05 2016 02:35 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:34 Tictock wrote:On November 05 2016 02:29 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 05 2016 02:27 ExO_ wrote:
God I hope I can make it back home before EoD. In short do NOT let the people hard pushing me saying it reveals nothing about alignment if I flip town, get away with it.
They're covering their asses now because they know im about to flip town. I genuinely think this is a very town response... ... which reinforces my Skynx scum-read. CFD Skynx imo. I disagree. Exo is still the best lynch. Every single one of his posts has just been him trying to survive the day, this one included. That's not scum AI. I would not want to be lynched either if I had this many votes. So then it's NAI. Why would you townread him then? His tone feels right. What a hero distancing himself from the lynch. Guys please wake the fuck up. What are you doing atm? lmao Yeah I almost forgot, thank you for reminding.
##Unvote
##Vote: NeverUnlucky
On November 05 2016 02:43 Skynx wrote:
I'm never ever moving away from NU unless kush comes down from the clouds with all his almighty convincing powers and tell me he is town or someone here can defend him to an equal measure.
On November 05 2016 02:47 Skynx wrote:
I'm only hoping that this is not one of those games where you are just bad town and forced me to tunnel on you again and mafia is just having a freewin cuz now you are objectively the scummiest person here.
We woulda lost Haunted Haus if townroles wasn't op cuz of this.
On November 05 2016 02:55 Skynx wrote:
Disclaimer: Ignoring NU from now on cuz its just not productive.
So Skynx "attempts" to move the lynch off of ExO, except not really. He makes some more posts I haven't quoted about NU White-Knighting etc. which indicates that he has a pretty strong scum read on NU. Claims he's never moving off of NU, only to give himself a way out two posts later (you may just be playing a bad town game!) Then makes a big deal about "ignoring" NU because it "isn't productive." Wouldn't you ignore NU because you're kinda-sorta really convinced he's mafia? The description of NU being "unproductive" is not the adjective I would use to describe my scum read. I would be blunt and say i'm ignoring him because he's scum.
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Also something else I caught going through Skynx's filter re Foreman:
On November 05 2016 01:35 Skynx wrote:
Summary
Very town: mahg
Townlean: Exo, Calix
Not read at all: darth
Bad but not thoroughly read:Foreman
Nullish cuz neither town nor scum but bad: Rels
Scum: TT, NU
...
I don't like Foreman's over-aggressive tone. He didn't get much going against him but why so aggressive then? He most definitely needs a re-read, I think he's been flying under the radar.
On November 05 2016 01:49 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2016 01:43 Calix wrote:
No. It's not my job to look for cases for you. That's on you. Town should be reaching out to the town, not vice versa.
With your reads, how is 'retaliation' a town tell?
I don't relate to your DF read.
How is an over-aggressive tone scum-indicative? What examples do you have? ok. Retaliation is a town tell because he's getting attacked non-stop for bad reasons. Check vivax and me from Dota mafia, which I know you have been following which is completely the opposite. I dunno who you're accounting to with the over-aggressive tone, Foreman? I'm not scum reading him, I got no material i specified I didn't read him much.
On November 05 2016 02:57 Skynx wrote:
Exo, whats your opinion on Foreman and Magh very quick?
I've highlighted all the relevant posts he's made about Foreman leading up to the vote.
highlighted: (Foreman) most definitely needs a re-read, I think he's been flying under the radar
I think it's really weird how he talks about Foreman in such a passive way, while also seeming to think he's the most dangerous player to forget about. He calls Foreman bad (at the game? bad = mafia?) and says he really wants to reread him. Never has.
Then he randomly asks ExO about mahrgell and Foreman as he's walking to the gallows? Why these two? Why then? It makes little sense and comes out of left field.
He claims to "not like his tone" and implies a potential mafia lean, then explicitly says he isn't reading Foreman as mafia even though Foreman hasn't changed his tone etc. Calls him a dark horse who we need to be wary of, then doesn't do what he says he would and reread his filter.
Please look at Foreman's filter re Skynx. There's barely anything. I know it may be early to play association but the lack of comms between them since Foreman attacked Skynx's opening (which isn't that much pressure) is troubling, especially coupled with Skynx's weird progression of Foreman.
On November 05 2016 08:21 Foreman wrote:
God, you guys... Talk. A. Lot.
So, Skynx got weird at end of day. NU is looking town as fuck. mahrgell is being mahrgell. TT is apparently looking at the possibility of me being scum (why, exactly?), and the rest of you are giving me a headache.
Carry on.
That's it.
I know Foreman
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Sorry my post crashed before I could finish
EBWOP: I know Foreman has been skimp in general, but I find his discussion of Skynx to be particularly constrained
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I'll have a closer look at Calix/mahrgell's Rels casing, but I remember liking them.
Skynx is my primary scum read followed by Foreman/Rels. I have a town vibe on Ticktock but i'm not particularly sure why. I think Calix is on the right track regarding the EoD vote. I think it's pretty likely that either Rels or Foreman are mafia
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On November 06 2016 01:19 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 01:01 Tictock wrote:Humm reading Darth's filter I kinda like him less. On November 03 2016 05:30 darthfoley wrote:
Foreman completely writing off Calix basically because of one push is helping town at all. Seems like uber tunneling that never actually helps town. Don't see any post so far that screams scum SO hard that I wouldn't entertain the possibility that my read on someone was wrong. Seems a bit scummy to me, especially D1. I agree with Skynx that the votes so far have been really dumb and useless drama
Calix is a slight town read to me currently. I agreed that Skynx's posts were useless until he posted about the votes.
This early read on Foreman is really odd, just kinda rambly and the two bolded lines both contradict each other and add nothing. I also noticed that Darth made posts all day long about Exo being scum. On November 03 2016 09:04 darthfoley wrote:
I also find it weird that
1. ExO came in
2. Got scum read and pressured
3. Weak case on Calix
4. Other people came in, namely NU, and changed the conversation
5. ExO peaced out and the current 1v1s are NU vs. Calix, Foreman vs. mahrgell
6. People seemingly forget about ExO On November 03 2016 12:30 darthfoley wrote:
ExO's filter is also relatively assheeks. I need Rels in the building On November 04 2016 03:01 darthfoley wrote:
If ExO continues to be this underwhelming and inactivate I think I'd be okay with an exO lynch But only joins the wagon after making a big post about why he doesn't think I'm scum anymore and that Exo is the better lynch. Kinda feels like he just kept this scumread on Exo in his back pocket, bringing it out when useful but not committing to it till it became clear that Exo was going to be lynched. Unfortunately I didn't find anything that really makes me think he is either town or scum. Just this stuff that stands out as kinda weird to me. Moving Darth to a solid null read. 1. I don't see a contradiction in those two lines that you quoted. Isn't he saying "I don't see any posts that would make me think anyone is lock scum. Therefore Foreman thinking that Calix is lock scum, especially on D1, is a bit scummy to me." That's how I read them anyway. 2. A better point. I'll await darthfoley's explanation here.
Point #1 isn't a contradiction. The wording was a little awkward but all I meant was what Calix interpreted. From my POV
2. I joined the wagon for a couple reasons. My mahrgell wagon wasn't going anywhere so I had to reassess why secondary/tertiary scum reads. As I mentioned, I liked lots of your defense and other people's points re you so I wasn't comfortable lynching you. I made my post so there wouldn't be misconceptions as to why I was joining. Public record is good. I don't really get the back pocket thing; there was never any viable secondary lynch train for almost all of D1, so the hedging argument doesn't hold water. I think the closest it ever was, was like 4-2 ExO vs. you? That's off the top of my head considering there's no vote thread. I think your point would be more valid had there been a spirited, close vote for most of day one, before breaking ExO's way a few hours before the EoD, but that's not really how it happened.
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I think I've caught up decently at this point. Sorry for the spam posts, but I had been busy all day until around an hour ago.
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On November 06 2016 08:56 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 08:23 Calix wrote:On November 06 2016 08:21 Tictock wrote:
Humm not the NK I was expecting, probably a medic dodge or summin.
Is it weird that gell's death makes me less sure Skynx is scum?
Like in the case that Skynx is town then mafia killing someone pushing Skynx makes it look like he got killed for being on the right track. I've also been wondering if scum!Skynx would actually stick his neck out so far with the whole TRing Exo thing.
Idk, I'm deep in WIFOM territory on this one. Take it as you will. I actually feel more convinced that Skynx is scum given the increasing body of evidence against him. It's hard to tell given that the three main suspects have yet to defend themselves. I liked DF's recent posts enough to take him out of my shit-list. While I'm here, can you expand more on your Rels read? If you have other priorities then don't bother but I feel like I am too focused on Rels > Skynx and you said that you town-read him so I'd love to hear what you think. I actually don't like Darth's posts at all. It falls right in line with how I think scum would play if gell was killed to implicate Skynx. Idk tbh I'm starting to feel like this game is pretty solved from my POV, I just need to make sure I can backup my TR of Rels a little better, but my PoE is down to Skynx/Darth/Foreman. If skynx is scum his play has been just shit all game.
I'd like you to expand on what parts of my posts you don't like. My thoughts on the mahrgell kill are that he was spewing town and had been universally townread (his last posts got me off of him). I made the point earlier that I thought mafia would try to buddy the first timer, and I think mahrgell picked up on that. I'm also town because I clicked through your 40 spoilers
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On November 06 2016 11:25 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 22:57 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 21:43 NeverUnlucky wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Calix
Town doesn't ignore other members of the town. I'm ignoring exactly 100% of these pushes between you and Calix. Honestly you two seem to get so emotionally worked up over how you read each other I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. ... You guys might actually make an amazing scum team. Someone remind me to tinfoil the shit out of a NU/Calix scumteam if we get much further into this without a mafia lynch.
This is also my tinfoil worry lol
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On November 06 2016 21:45 NeverUnlucky wrote:Ah, shit. Forgot to add the context. Those are Rels' posts / posts about Rels that are reasons to town-read him. If you don't understand why I included one of the quotes, ask away. Show nested quote +On November 06 2016 12:02 darthfoley wrote:On November 06 2016 11:25 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 22:57 Tictock wrote:On November 03 2016 21:43 NeverUnlucky wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Calix
Town doesn't ignore other members of the town. I'm ignoring exactly 100% of these pushes between you and Calix. Honestly you two seem to get so emotionally worked up over how you read each other I have a hard time taking any of it seriously. ... You guys might actually make an amazing scum team. Someone remind me to tinfoil the shit out of a NU/Calix scumteam if we get much further into this without a mafia lynch. This is also my tinfoil worry lol Hats off to whoever is courageous enough to read our filters and write a decent case afterwards  Yesterday I said I was going to re-read DF, but I'm too lazy and a bit restrained on time to do so. If TT could explain why he thinks his posts are mafia, it would be lovely.
That's why I lost to Shapelog last newbie game TT. Hopefully Rels and Skynx and Foreman will exist today
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On November 07 2016 00:54 NeverUnlucky wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 02:28 darthfoley wrote:On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. My pyramid thing would go something like this TownForeman NU, Calix, Skynx Rels mahrgell, ExO, TT MafiaI have Rels null because he's yet to really engage the thread besides an early read pyramid. I want to hear why he "hated" my post, among other things. Can I get Calix's and your opinion of each other? I'm pretty sure you are townreading each other, yet continue to bicker and harp on the same points. I'd also like to hear what you think of Ticktock wait... Why the fuck did Foreman as most town? Do you still TR him? Why did you have Skynx as town? Why would you explain your null read on Rels (who hadn't posted) but not your other reads?
I had Foreman as most town because it was early game and I liked his tone and attitude for town. If you found that post, you surely could've found this post of me explaining exactly what you're asking me now.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 04 2016 04:01 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 02:48 darthfoley wrote:
I'd also appreciate Foreman's reads when he gets a chance Sure, as soon as you explain your read of me, which was given before you know my reads of everyone else. So the majority of my read on you is based off of your interactions with mahrgell. Although nothing you've done has screamed uber town, small things like you not really giving a shit about how people view your playstyle leads me to believe that you're playing your own style and not trying to conform to "please" other towns. Basically the antithesis of buddying. I liked this post specifically Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:59 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 21:42 mahrgell wrote:
. Scum has usually 2 options:
a) make up stuff
b) reinforce shitty assumptions by townies
Meanwhile a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me. In the end, I have to judge if the different judgements made by other players are due to different character or due to hidden agenda.
This is terribad. So any townie that you disagree with is scummy to you?
Because like, two town can't see the same thing and have completely different thoughts about the same situation, what with the fact that everybody has identical environmental factors and upbringing, amirite? Oh wait... This is a bit of a segue, but mahrgell says a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for meSo naturally, you'd think he would scum read Rels, after all... Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:41 mahrgell wrote:
About Rels. I agree with basically none of his reads, pretty apparent with his 3 top town being my top scum. But there is one thing you can't blame him for: Trying to blend in. I would love to see him explaining his controversial reads.
Mainly I'm interested in:
- why does he town NU
- why does he town Foreman - I can see people not agreeing my concerns regarding foreman, but seriously, what has he done to make him a townread???)
- what makes foley scummy? - "hates post" okay... Tell me more.
Share your thought process. I haven't seen any reasoning on those reads and admit they don't make sense to me. and eventually, in his last large post, claims that he views Rels neutrally. Which doesn't make sense considering his prescribed stance from earlier. This scum read of mine of mahrgell helps me consider you to be town. Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx?
He seemed like he was aware of potential buddying and I also thought his questioning of mahrgell, who at the time was my most scummy, was good.
Putting Skynx town on my list was pretty shallow considering the only reason I had him there was because he agreed with me on Ticktock. I hadn't realized at that point the power of distancing in a 9 man game so even if TT was mafia I shouldn't have read Skynx as such town. He was my fourth most town on that list as town lean so it wasn't like I was gung-ho about it.
Not sure why I talked about Rels tbh, but you're mischaracterizing my play if you say I hadn't explained my Foreman read. I even explained it TO HIM in the thread.
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Also ##Vote: Skynx
Can those voting Foreman explain why you're all Foreman > Skynx in this situation? The case on Skynx is much stronger
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On November 07 2016 01:28 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 00:54 NeverUnlucky wrote:On November 04 2016 02:28 darthfoley wrote:On November 04 2016 01:53 NeverUnlucky wrote:
Perhaps you have reads you would like to share? c: Sure I think Foreman is most town to me. My pyramid thing would go something like this TownForeman NU, Calix, Skynx Rels mahrgell, ExO, TT MafiaI have Rels null because he's yet to really engage the thread besides an early read pyramid. I want to hear why he "hated" my post, among other things. Can I get Calix's and your opinion of each other? I'm pretty sure you are townreading each other, yet continue to bicker and harp on the same points. I'd also like to hear what you think of Ticktock wait... Why the fuck did Foreman as most town? Do you still TR him? Why did you have Skynx as town? Why would you explain your null read on Rels (who hadn't posted) but not your other reads? I had Foreman as most town because it was early game and I liked his tone and attitude for town. If you found that post, you surely could've found this post of me explaining exactly what you're asking me now. + Show Spoiler +On November 04 2016 04:01 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2016 03:30 Foreman wrote:On November 04 2016 02:48 darthfoley wrote:
I'd also appreciate Foreman's reads when he gets a chance Sure, as soon as you explain your read of me, which was given before you know my reads of everyone else. So the majority of my read on you is based off of your interactions with mahrgell. Although nothing you've done has screamed uber town, small things like you not really giving a shit about how people view your playstyle leads me to believe that you're playing your own style and not trying to conform to "please" other towns. Basically the antithesis of buddying. I liked this post specifically Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:59 Foreman wrote:On November 03 2016 21:42 mahrgell wrote:
. Scum has usually 2 options:
a) make up stuff
b) reinforce shitty assumptions by townies
Meanwhile a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for me. In the end, I have to judge if the different judgements made by other players are due to different character or due to hidden agenda.
This is terribad. So any townie that you disagree with is scummy to you?
Because like, two town can't see the same thing and have completely different thoughts about the same situation, what with the fact that everybody has identical environmental factors and upbringing, amirite? Oh wait... This is a bit of a segue, but mahrgell says a townie sees what I see. So if I feel myself completely unable to follow the line of thought of a player, this is a scumlean for meSo naturally, you'd think he would scum read Rels, after all... Show nested quote +On November 03 2016 23:41 mahrgell wrote:
About Rels. I agree with basically none of his reads, pretty apparent with his 3 top town being my top scum. But there is one thing you can't blame him for: Trying to blend in. I would love to see him explaining his controversial reads.
Mainly I'm interested in:
- why does he town NU
- why does he town Foreman - I can see people not agreeing my concerns regarding foreman, but seriously, what has he done to make him a townread???)
- what makes foley scummy? - "hates post" okay... Tell me more.
Share your thought process. I haven't seen any reasoning on those reads and admit they don't make sense to me. and eventually, in his last large post, claims that he views Rels neutrally. Which doesn't make sense considering his prescribed stance from earlier. This scum read of mine of mahrgell helps me consider you to be town. Why'd you change your vote off of mahrgell to Skynx? He seemed like he was aware of potential buddying and I also thought his questioning of mahrgell, who at the time was my most scummy, was good. Putting Skynx town on my list was pretty shallow considering the only reason I had him there was because he agreed with me on Ticktock. I hadn't realized at that point the power of distancing in a 9 man game so even if TT was mafia I shouldn't have read Skynx as such town. He was my fourth most town on that list as town lean so it wasn't like I was gung-ho about it. Not sure why I talked about Rels tbh, but you're mischaracterizing my play if you say I hadn't explained my Foreman read. I even explained it TO HIM in the thread.
EBWOP: I shouldn't have read Skynx as such*
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On November 07 2016 01:32 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2016 01:30 darthfoley wrote:
Also ##Vote: Skynx
Can those voting Foreman explain why you're all Foreman > Skynx in this situation? The case on Skynx is much stronger I'm basically voting him over Skynx because that was the one read that NU/ TT and myself could agree on. TT still seems to have some doubts with regards to Skynx due to NK WIFOM/ doubts over wherever scum!Skynx would be so blatant/ not trusting you, etc. Don't you think that Skynx/ Foreman is the scum team though? I think it's Foreman and Skynx/ Rels although given the sheer volume of posts against Skynx, looks like a shoe-in.
Yea, I believe Skynx/Foreman is the most likely duo and I believe any potential blue check type role would be advised to check one of them who isn't lynched. Skynx/Rels we've discussed would make less sense, I believe? Rels/Foreman? Maybe.
Also, can you and/or NU briefly explain or point me to a post regarding why you're so confident in TT being town? I understand you have this three person town circle going on, but why TT?
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Fair enough ##Vote: Foreman
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Adding to the tech question, does anyone else experience your typing cursor disappear in the middle of a post and you have to manually click back on the spot you were typing from? This happens to me multiple times per post and it is especially frustrating if i'm in the middle of a long case post etc. It only happens to me on this site so idk
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EPT
