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On December 02 2016 20:14 Holyflare wrote:
And I'll tell you why you hate it so much. We've all played a lot of games together, we get a reputation. I am nkd night 1 to 2 almost every game I ever enter. People can't really read me so they rely on either me being killed or me pushing a mafia lynch to confirm myself.
I'm not immune to being lynched, I've been lynched day 1 before easily. It happens. But to say that people treat me as some immune person and it annoys you when I'm playing like shit is wrong. They do that because I often step up my game as it goes on or I get the motivation to solve it.
I also would argue I'm not playing like shit in the slightest when you have agreed with me at EVERY point in my game. If you didn't write so much I would without a doubt call you mafia.
You've: Flat out agreed with my nu assessment and we shared that read.
You pretty much copied and pasted my koshi read.
You've sheeped my rels read and given the same points for town reading rels after I have.
You share the same scum reads I do.
At what point do you admit I'm solidly town?
I don't read myself. I don't know if I would read myself as town. If you say I was looking exactly like you, than I would probably not do it. Then again I don't elieve we look the same, as I think I cover the entire game and respond to people instead of yelling out my town confirmedness.
And your entire refusal to discuss my argument but bullshit repeat of why you are town is annoying me.
Not sure how many times I said it this game or last game, but I do not believe that there are many "I am town because..." arguments. As you liked my Koshi rant, you should actually know that too.
But for absurdly weird reasons this is what is ultra prominent here. I have no experience with forum mafia and it confuses me. But I play with my judgement I have gotten in RL mafia. And there I basically never accept those.
Every statement made this way is entirely WIFOM.
This is also why I usually insist on people doing reads on other people and commiting to stuff instead of defending themselves. And when I really look for defenses, I don't want them to tell me "LOCK TOWN CONFIRMED" HF style or "IM 100% TOWN, BELIEVE ME" NU style... But I want them to walk me through their thought process and intentions, so >>> I <<< can judge if this makes sense from a town perspective. If I'm on their ass, I certainly have a solid idea of how their actions would make sense as scum play.
People trying to do that judgement for me what would make sense for them, if they were town and if they were scum... yeah... waste of time.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I'm not saying I'm confirmed town you plebeian. I'm saying that IN YOUR MIND I have shared like 80% of the same reads as you. That is an extremely strong indicator that I am usually the same alignment as you. I've posted all of these reads before you have too.
Which is why I can't wrap my head around how you can't town read me solidly.
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And finally fully caught up...
About shlog... I will wait for his second promised part. I don't feel like going through his stuff, than redoing everything i a few hours. Also his own reads interest me way more than his defense, even though I will reread his filter with his defense in mind once I'm onto that.
and now I guess... SL time it is...
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before I forget though:
@TT:
didn't see you comment on this one Maybe missed it, but I think you commented all my other posts but this one.
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about sicklucker:
First of all... I have a fair few gripes with players, but this one tops it ^.^
Like if I would read my own HF rants and then decide to trigger myself, I think I would play like sicklucker ^^ (100% sure this isn't the case, but just saying...)
Let's start with the conclusion first:
sicklucker easily overtook HF as my vote of choice here. Not because HF suddenly looks better, but because sicklucker looks way worse. Like I blame HF for not coming out of his corner to start playing in a more open field to evaluate his play.
But SL came out, and he intentionally played bad.
Thus
##unvote
##vote sicklucker
If I would have to summarize his posts quickly it would be:
- shits up the thread and makes no sense
- intentionally makes reads out of thin air and for false reasons
- the timing of his entry was completely off
- his "explanation" of his D1/N1 play or the lack there of is... bad.
And honestly I don't feel like doing a post by post analysis here. Pretty much all his posts fall in above mentioned categories. Like there is not a single judgement he makes regarding himself or other players(HF, shlog, DF, myself) that I can follow.
+ Show Spoiler +I guess I respond to the one concerning me though: On December 02 2016 09:59 sicklucker wrote:
lol theres no way a mafia newb like mahrgell has the balls to go after hf this hard as mafia Do we know each other? If you had paid the slightest amount of attention to this game (or read my previous game, which I don't expect anybody to do, but obv some did) you would have noticed by now that this is absolutely not my style. I don't give a damn about reputation. I factor it in when I judge people, but in no world will I stand there and think "Uh, this guy is good, I better not kill him". I don't believe in people talking about what they would(n't) do as scum. But I tell you one thing: Too much respect is not part of my scum play or any play. Oh, and I hate people basing their reads on my game count.
Especially his self view is troubling. I had issues with Koshi and HF about their weird kind of postulated image.
But I somehow still felt this was more of an issue with character or play style. With SL I can't honestly believe that he was in any way a driving force behind the NU lynch. I can't imagine him really thinking that ins some weird fairy world he would be more than a townlead for anyone and he actually should know from this thread with everyone posting thoughts, that basically only afk-shlog and afk-cm8 are standing between him and a lynch.
Which leads me to the conclusion that he does not believe it. Similar to his "reads" he is just shitting up. Point being though, while accidentally doing bad shit is often considered a towntell I can't find a single interpretation of where a townie intentionally does this. I know that the WIFOM here is "But then a scum would never do it either". Problem is... There is simply no valid townview, so the scumview has to be accepted.
I was refusing D1 and N1 to believe this can really be scum play. Very similar to how I felt about NU day1. But I simply cant hold this ground any longer.
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Oh and unless someone starts posting seals, I won't move. *
I'm fully willing to take part in the shlog investigation, I would really like to have HF discussed, and if CM8 or Onegu come back, torture them for hours until they spew. But I can't see what they can do to look more scum than SL. And with the way SL is playing I don't feel like questioning him actually and don't see what he could say to change my mind unless he does a 180° on everything and then gives the explanation of the century how this can be townplay.
*If there is a close race between 2 others I will come to consolidate.
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And with that I'm out ^.^
Filled the thread enough. Sorry for falling back to my old wall-of-text style -.-
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
I swear to christ you're doing a great job at looking like mafia. Your sicklucker conclusions are bad, his reads on me etc make perfect sense. There are a few undiscussed, yes, but that doesn't make him mafia. He plays very erratically like this as either alignment.
What I'm more concerned about is how his view of you has somehow influenced your read on him. You're new, you get told there's this big scary player HF in the game and if you're mafia your team mates have told him. You'd naturally be more reserved and not pressure me. It's a pretty good metric.
That's not to say sicklucker couldn't be mafia but certainly not from what you've said.
You had a massive boner for mafia rels based on my posts, you came off rels because he started town reading people. Is that not the same thing sicklucker is doing? Narrowing down his lynch pool?
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
We vote off Shapelog today, guaranteed.
Sicklucker needs to explain his df and shape reads too
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Hm? Not sure what you are saying here.
And I really don't feel like argueing how I play as scum.
What makes me more curious though is that you say his read on me makes perfect sense, because scum!mahrgell would not dare to go after his gloryness... And then at the same time suddenly swing back on me, because mahrgell must obviously be scum!mahrgell as he goes after his gloryness which is completely outrageous. I'm completely fine with you tunneling me because I somehow made posts attacking you. But at least try to be consistent for a few seconds.
That you obviously feel his read on you makes sense doesn't surprise me though.
Also I came off Rels for something completely different. And I posted it. It was him basically giving wrong meta information about SL. I was off him very quick after my large post, but kept the thing going to gather information. I later clarifified this before EoN.
Also could you stop this "you had a boner for rels because HF said so" story?
I had a boner for Rels at EoD because his one self declaration, something which I feel I overjumped, but still.
And then I had a boner for Rels when I actually started filter diving through the night and felt he was bad. Yes, this incorporated the one argument you brought against him, which I had missed earlier. But if you feel I'm sheeping you all game, you really need to check your ego.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
His read on you make sense because it's a metric that we have gone by on this site for eternity because it is a good one.
I don't think you're mafia, as pointed out in my list post, but you're playing with an extremely limited point of view.
To summarise I'm town and you're gonna have to deal with it Mahogany.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Like, fuck, I've talked a lot about Shapelog tonight and you haven't said a word because you want his reads. What he's done is more than adequate to get a preliminary read on.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Why is he angry?
Why does he have 0 reads?
How can he have 0 reads but adequately defend himself?
How can he be aware of the flips, be here for deadline and still not conclude a thing?
Why are there so many activity excuses that weren't ever mentioned before?
Why is he so angry and attacking player personalities rather than than discussing the points?
How can he possibly know people scum read Checkm8 and himself if he hasn't been around to play?
If he knows this from reading the thread why can't he make a list? That scum team isn't super old, it's post nu flip?
Why is he only filter diving checkm8 with the mindset that he is mafia with checkm8????
So many questions to ask.
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I could, but call me lazy if you dare. Not feeling like going over him twice in the span of a day.
I hope he posts soon though, otherwise I will have to wait until the later evening before I can comment on it.
But I appreciate your concerns/questions and will have them in mind when looking at him.
---
Also I noticed I raged a lot lately...Sorry for that, ego and emotions can't be completely turned off (and this shouldn't be an excuse, I know and thus it is not and I really want to apologize)
I will try to tone down a bit again. No this does not get me off either HF or SL, but I will try my best to present my vies in a calmer manner ^.^
Taking a walk now, this helped earlier.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
That's it, I am commandeering this game. You will be following me today.
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Day 2 Vote Count![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xe0Qx7k.gif)
- Shapelog (4): LightningStrike, Tictock, darthfoley, Holyflare,
- Holyflare (0):
mahrgell
- Darthfoley (1): sicklucker,
- Sicklucker (1): mahrgell,
Not voting (5): Onegu, Rels, emperorchampion, Shapelog, Checkm8
Remember, voting is mandatory.
Day 2 will end in at Saturday, Dec 03 10:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). Currently, Shapelog is slated to be lynched.
Only votes in the voting thread and with the correct format will be counted.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On December 02 2016 16:11 Shapelog wrote:Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind that I am with Cm8 in the mafia teams btw? Show nested quote +On December 02 2016 16:03 emperorchampion wrote:
@ shape: let me know where you're at in this game right now (reads etc.) please! I've caught up in the snese of reading the thread. Later today (2 am rn) I will have a read list. I've gone through check8 filter (to try and understand shape + ch8 team idea) NU Filter (see last post) and half of Koshi filter. I've skimed Darth and LS filter as well.
Ahhh more that I hate about this post. Of all the filters of people to check why has he checked these people? DF I could understand if he hadn't read the game but dude looks pretty towny right now and LS is the one that pushed NU.
Of all the people to check these are potentially the weirdest people. None of them were under any real suspicion.
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Yea as of now I have literally 0 reasons to move of Shapelog. His return has been pretty lame and I agree either hf that his choice of filterage is weird to say the least.
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Hopefully Onegu and checkm8 come back at some point during this game lol
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On December 02 2016 20:13 mahrgell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2016 13:05 Tictock wrote:On December 02 2016 09:54 mahrgell wrote:
And one last thing I would like to remind people of:
CM8 and Shlog can not be scum together. This is simply ruled out.
Unless you are saying that they both risked being mod killed for not posting the entire night after being warned for not voting, but somehow submitted a nightkill!
There is at least one active scum around.
And now if you apply this logic, this is actually making the Shlog train much weaker.
Assume you give CM8 a chance of 30% to be scum. This means Shlog has maximum 70% if there is guaranteed to be one scum between those two. And there is still the chance neither is scum.
If you now tell me SHLOG SCUM 100%... Okay. Then you have to really convince me why CM8 can't be scum. Nah it's totes possible man. Send the kill in via phone or w/e but don't have the energy to actually make posts. Shape even posted RIGHT after start of day, so even if CM8 is scum and has given up on the game then at least shape could have posted the kill. Maybe it's not Shape/CM8, but this is not a good reason why it's not them. You are assuming a little too much. Uhm, I actually had to read the rules aafter EoN because I was sure they would both be modkilled for not posting. My line of thought was, that it requires tremendous "balls" (but honestly I dont see it as something positive here) to risk getting modkilled for lack of activity. Both were warned, both didn't post the entire night. If they really played the "surely btdt wont dare to modkill us, and lets submit a NK while not posting" card, I will have serious respect issues, but at least to me this is not a viable play. But I don't really want to discuss modactions/kills, so let's drop this conversation.
Your conclusion here is correct, but let me tell you a story about how the bolder line of thought can lead you astray.
Long long ago, in a thread not so far away, a dude named Tictock rolled scum for the first time. His teammates names are unimportant so let's call them X and Y. After a day full of spamming and saying whatever he felt he needed to our hero Tictock had managed to avoid most of the suspicion and even helped get his buddy X out from the spotlight just enough that Town decided to hang what turned out to be their only blue role. The blue claimed far too late and our hero Tictock laughed at Town's mistake safely riding an alternate wagon. His buddy X however was voting for the blue and in a moment of panicked genius X invited right at EoD without placing a new vote. Town was shocked, and amazed at X's bravery. He had risked the mighty mod hammer by technically not voting, and thus they concluded he could never be Scum. Tictock, X, and Y celebrated their success and applauded X for his maneuver. As the Days went by X became more and more fearful and spoke less and less, Y eventually faultered and was found out by the Town. In the end though our hero Tictock did enough talking and X had gained so much respect for his risking the mod hammer that they managed to subvert the town and rid themselves of the Holy Guardians doo-gooders once and for all.
+ Show Spoiler [TLDR] +In my first mafia game, Holy Guardians, I had a teammate get insane towncred by unvoting off the D1 lynch right at deadline when the guy claimed blue. Everyone said there was no way Mafia would risk a modkill trying to save a blue role. We easily rode that sentiment to victory despite my buddy never being able to keep himself posting more than the bare minimum.
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EPT
