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Why not try?
/in (newbie/first game)
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On September 18 2016 06:16 Half the Sky wrote:Welcome to the fray. And welcome back Jealous.
Thanks! Any estimates when this will start?
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/confirm in thread as well
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I'll have to see how much time I can find over the weekend, but at the latest on monday i will be here in force.
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Hi, I'll be here for the next 30 minutes at least. Going to read what you've written so far. Excited to get going!
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On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote:
I second your point about meta. At the end of the day, meta is so often skewed by perspective and interpretation. While it may help in some cases, it is rarely a solid argument when trying to convince others because it boils down to "Town X wouldn't do that! They didn't do it in game Y!" and then X says "But in game Z I did that and I was town!" so on and so forth.
Especially the last part of your argument would make me extremely suspicious of X, since it means that he actively looked for something meta-y in a game to replicate.
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On September 24 2016 15:51 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning.
Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt. I don't believe in RVS for much the same reasons that I listed for reads. I will rarely if ever trust a player that votes and un-votes and re-votes multiple times per lynch cycle. Decisions like that need to be done with a firm hand, and not frivolously. Too many people playing silly pressure games can result in a ML. Mafia is a game of psychology, and voting creates social pressure on parties that may otherwise be more objective and thus could contribute to the discussion/analysis and not simply sheep or jump on a train. Not sure what you mean by the bolded above.
I agree with this statement. Not so much because I could not trust a player that changes his vote, since there can be good reasons for that. But a vote that is declared to be random does not really apply any pressure, and a vote without a case, so an undeclared random vote, does either.
I also think that a baseless vote will give you nothing AI, since there is no action/post to be explained by the accused. What kind of reaction would you want out of a player randomly accused?
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My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?
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On September 24 2016 19:48 Rels wrote:
ptmc is this your first game ever of forum mafia ?
yes
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On September 24 2016 22:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? I don't quite understand this part?
Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town.
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On September 24 2016 23:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 23:10 ptmc wrote:On September 24 2016 22:22 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? I don't quite understand this part? Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town. Hm. I guess that kind of makes sense. Although it's pretty much impossible for scum to just leave a random vote up without any follow-up anyway.
Sure. But even if it doesn't result in a lynch, a random vote in the first day would leave one vote with no AI at all when analyzed later in the game, still only benefiting scum and not town.
On September 24 2016 23:43 Xatalos wrote:
Why exactly did you have a townread on Jealous, ptmc? And what did you think of DanelerH?
My town read on Jealous is mostly tone, and i could follow his train of thought. DanelerH is highly inconclusive to me.
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[QUOTE]On September 25 2016 04:24 scott31337 wrote:
Calix
I'm curious of the Jealous townread because at page 13 I'm not seeing it ptmc -
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 19:37 Rels wrote:
I don't like Jealous. And I don't like all the townreads he's getting simply for writing the most words in the thread. 80% of his content are about things that are not scumhunting and are very easy to write about: RVS, meta, PL.
The only thing he's done in terms of reads has been questionning Stutters with Calix. I don't liek that he's already justifying himself to not having to take a stance:
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe?[/QUOTE]
Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game. [/QUOTE]
So, Jealous, I want you to explain your stance on Stutters' answers to your questions.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly where I'm at with Jealous too[\QUOTE]
As i said before, my "read" on Jealous was mostly for tone. Having re-read his posts with your interpretation in mind, i start to see where you are coming from. Consider his town-lean revoked 
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disregard previous post, fucked the layout. Here's the correct one:
On September 25 2016 04:24 scott31337 wrote: Calix I'm curious of the Jealous townread because at page 13 I'm not seeing it ptmc - Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 19:37 Rels wrote: I don't like Jealous. And I don't like all the townreads he's getting simply for writing the most words in the thread. 80% of his content are about things that are not scumhunting and are very easy to write about: RVS, meta, PL. The only thing he's done in terms of reads has been questionning Stutters with Calix. I don't liek that he's already justifying himself to not having to take a stance: On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote: On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe? Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game. So, Jealous, I want you to explain your stance on Stutters' answers to your questions. This is exactly where I'm at with Jealous too
As i said before, my "read" on Jealous was mostly for tone. Having re-read his posts with your interpretation in mind, i start to see where you are coming from. Consider his town-lean revoked
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I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx?
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Him being DanelerH.
I'll reread his posts now, but imo at worst he is tunneling for a good reason?
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On September 25 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? 305 I mention his reasoning doesn't relate to his posting mindset, its a soft scumread at this point. Rels seems to like his way of going about Luna pr prediction on Stutters but its not much of a tell from my pow.
I guess i'm more with Rels here as well then. Tunneling (= tryhard sr?) on Lunaticman seems necessary to get any information out of him.
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On September 24 2016 19:46 Rels wrote:
I like Stutters. The reasons are kinda weak but I suppose it's normal for early game. Gonna wait for Lunatic to give me his reasons before disclosing mine.
With Lunaticman not wanting to disclose his read reasons, could you at least do us the favour?
On September 25 2016 01:33 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?  Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
[quote]
Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there.
I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you.
I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:
[quote]
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. Why do you think that ? Blue role / scum are notably difficult to differentiate sometimes.
Do you even still think Stutters is town?
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On September 25 2016 05:03 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least. And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time.
I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read?
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On September 25 2016 05:17 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 05:05 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 05:00 Skynx wrote:On September 25 2016 04:58 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 04:13 Skynx wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 DanelerH wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This, plus there's Shutter's first post: On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me. So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai. So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this... On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. [quote] Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: [quote] Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. [quote] Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. [quote] What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
[quote]
Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
[quote]
I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo. Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post? Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that  It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being. I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell. Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards? I mean Show nested quote +
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
But you yourself disliked Lunaticmans townread of Stutters, no? Maybe it is too weak for a sr, but all i see DanelerH doing is to look further into that, which is a good thing imo.
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On September 25 2016 06:04 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 05:58 ptmc wrote:On September 25 2016 05:03 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least. And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time. I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read? I've never been able to notice who have powers or not very well, but some players seem to have the gift of immediately noticing if someone is a blue. I've seen this happen quite a few times now. If we assume that Lunatic has noticed something and is town, it's pretty much purely harmful to elaborate on that in the thread (it should be easy to understand - just helping out the scumteam for free). If he's scum, well, it doesn't really matter since they would know everything Lunatic knows. No matter what, I don't see real benefits in talking about the topic?
Okay, if we live of the assumption that Lunatic did see Stutters as such a clear town (power role) read as a town, why would he then even proclaim that? As you said, there are no real benefits to talking about it in the topic. And his completely baseless townread on Stutters had to be questioned imo.
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But even hinting at a power role has to get scum interested in him as a night kill target. I see no reason where
a) Lunaticman could read Stutters as a town power role, or even 100% town
b) where, after having arrived at the conclusion that Stutters is a town power role, the best course of action is to proclaim him 100% town without any hint at a reason.
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Even having someone established as clearly town (if we would follow Lunatics argument) would make him a prime night kill target, making it all moot. I guess I could accept it easier if we were closer to deadline with a probable lynch on Stutters, where Lunatic would use his superpowers of townreading to try to save him, but like this it is just too weird.
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Updated reads-list before I'll go to bed:
town-lean
calix, similar reads
rels, similar reads
skynx, similar reads (except DanelerH)
inconclusive
Xatalos, i like the tone, but the Lunaticman-saga leaves some questionmarks about you as well
DanelerH, very pushy, looks for Lunaticman-answers that i am interested in
scott31337, similar reads, but no actual input to the thread yet
Jealous, reread posts, no longer anyting AI in there. good bit of fluff.
SoulEaterQUEEN, i still dislike RVS tho
scum-lean
Stutters, to me he sounded more nervous than the relaxed read he gets from Rels, what with his fast explanation of the reaction test etc.
Lunaticman, what is that townread?
Nothing to work with:
DoYouHas
Superbia
I'll stick my vote on Stutters as a safety for the unlikely event that I won't make it here at all tomorrow.
## Vote Stutters
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So i take it lunatic did not provide any reasonable explanations?
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I would like to note that my vote on Stutters was more to force Lunatic to reveal more on his read than it was because I really think Stutters is scum. This is all before i have actually caught up with the thread, btw.
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On September 26 2016 05:21 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 05:20 ptmc wrote:
So i take it lunatic did not provide any reasonable explanations? Pretty much raged about being questioned and went offline.
Ok, I'm fine with the lynch on him then. I'll move my vote to him then, although it is highly unlikely that anyone else will be lynched anyway. Gonna read a bit afterwards.
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Ok, finished the skimming the thread now. Still liking Calix, disliking DYH and starting to dislike Jealous for their lack of tangible reads. Disliking Luna obviously. Still haven't seen anything meaningful from sup (or did i miss something?).
Bit worried that the Luna-Lynch runs so smoothly, but i guess the train would be too strong to defend anyhow.
Will go through the thread more in detail tomorrow.
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On September 26 2016 06:18 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 05:53 scott31337 wrote:On September 26 2016 05:48 Jealous wrote:
## Vote Lunaticman Want to post any other thoughts on the game Jealous? I've posted what I deem a sufficient amount about Lunaticman prior to the vote; I actually voted for him in this thread much earlier than most of you, from what I can tell, but I forgot that I have to vote in the other thread. As far as my thoughts as I'm catching up, here's what I have (pretty loose, not on a PC until tomorrow and working until then): Scott - In my experience Scott is always a man of few words so I don't feel his brevity is AI. Superbia - welcome back, his type of spam might be what this game needed to be revitalized. I would like to see him speaking more specifically and referencing posts more clearly beyond just saying "I read his filter and I feel x." He also has the convenience of arriving into the thread when everything is more or less set in stone. But, because I myself am busy, I can relate. Calix - am slightly surprised by her willingness to judge me for not being very confident or conclusive on people in D1 as I feel she knows me well enough to know that this isn't out of the norm. D2 is when I always do a lot of work, so I don't mind that you guys (particularly Rels) are giving me some crap over being soft-spoken because that will all change when I have concrete things to work off of and tie to posts. Daneler - might be riding on the good feels he got from my posts before I became inactive, but he should have picked up on the general turn of town's opinion on me and the fact that it is reasonable I'm a vacuum. I agree with Rels that I wasn't a big fan of his list post. Rels - staying on the ball and being assertive with his position, which I like. His going after me is forgivable because as I said it is justifiable and will not be the case come D2. Xan - it's awkward for me to look back on my phone to make sure that it was him trying to create a second train, but if it was indeed him I'd have to say it seems like a stupid thing to attempt so openly and at this juncture. Stupidity isn't necessarily AI but in theory, taking votes off Lunaticman and creating the potential for shennanies (which are popular on TL and thus unfortunately not always AI)... Could be a dumb scum move. If it was not Xan who did this, attribute the same reasoning to whoever else it was that initiated this thought, and apologies to Xan.Stutter - still haven't seen anything from him that would make me change my mind about him being my #2 lynch pick. Nothing that I recall off the top of my head sticks out, but I'm not fully caught up so maybe I'll add some more as I walk to the store before EoD.
What do you think about DYH?
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On September 26 2016 07:07 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 07:03 scott31337 wrote:On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Hmmmm I guess Stutters and Skynx look a bit better after the flip... Maybe DanelerH too. Hmmm... Lunatic didn't do too much though, so it's not too hard to fake what little he did... But at least I kind of doubt he would immediately claim his teammate as an "obvious townie"...
Normally I would agree on stutters. But this play by lunatic was so beyond anything I would think smart, that a special look at stutters should be warranted.
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Anyway, i'm off to bed. Gonna investigate more tomorrow. Good night!
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In my mind, there is a 50/50 on wether stutters is scum purely based on lunatics play. Stutters drops a lot of fluff into the thread, then disappears to the bar. He gets some flak for it and slight scum leans by at least Calix.
Case a) Lunatic sees his scum buddy taking weak hits and wants to push him into a town pile
Case b) Lunatic wants to town read someone so that he himself is townread
Does anyone see other possible causes for Lunatics action?
Because to me, case b) makes little sense. Case a) would make Stutters scum.
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So it was just a weird play from start to finish? I guess i can live with that for now, still checking stutters filter tho.
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so, my case so far against stutters:
At least Jealous and Calix have stutters as a lynch target pre flip, SEQ (and myself) even voted for him, so he definitely did not seem too towny even without Lunatics help. Since then he has barely posted anything. One slight town vibe could come from this:
On September 25 2016 11:52 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll type this up in full once we leave and I go home, but drunk me would also be all about a Luna lynch
but at the same time it is so heavily non-commited. It was however fairly early in the Luna-train, so maybe too early for a bus?
We have Rels giving Stutters a slight town lean because of his relaxed posts, but i get more of a nervous and fluffy feel from them.
Xat summarises like this:
On September 26 2016 02:58 Xatalos wrote:
Hm. Well, it's not like DYH/scott/Stutters did anything scummy scummy which is always a plus.
But i don't see how it is a plus. A plus is doing towny things, not doing anything is at least anti-town, at most scum.
Here then is Stutters actual vote post:
On September 26 2016 05:54 Stutters695 wrote:
Voting so I don't forget while I'm at work.
Vote: Luna
Very late to the party (but that could be due to basically no activity), and no reasoning, but the train was running to hard to maybe really require one anyhow.
I'm not sold that Stutters looks better post flip, like Rels and Xat suggest, purely because Lunatics town read made no sense so far, so why should it start now?
On September 26 2016 10:32 DoYouHas wrote:
Ok, here is where I'm at for the night
Mafia
Jealous
Town
Rels
SEQ
Calix
Stutters
Skynx
Probably Town
Xata
Looking better post-flip
Dane
Unsure
Scott
Superbia
ptmc
Dane(again)
DYH, why do you hard town-read stutters?
On September 26 2016 12:34 scott31337 wrote:
SEQ moves up for being the first on the Luna train and not swaying.
Xatalos and Jealous as well.
90%+ Town:
SEQ
Calix
Rels
Jealous
Town lean (in order)
Skynx
Stutters
Xatalos
DanelerH
ptmc
My instincts tell me I think one of the scums is probably hiding in the town lean list though.
Scumlean:
DYH - I like some of Skynx's posts on him - and his vote reasoning looks really bad once I've re-read it as well.
Superbia - I'm not a fan of how he wanted to go after me - the reasoning was weak, many others did not agree and I know i'm town (OMGUS?)
Scott, why do you lean town on stutters?
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On September 26 2016 19:40 Superbia wrote:
I would read stutters independently. It could be a tmi read or it could be defending a team mate. Take the wine for what it is.
I believe i did just that at the start of the post.
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On September 26 2016 19:49 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 19:46 ptmc wrote:On September 26 2016 19:40 Superbia wrote:
I would read stutters independently. It could be a tmi read or it could be defending a team mate. Take the wine for what it is. I believe i did just that at the start of the post. That's cool? It was just a tip in general since people seemed to quote the "Luna reads stutters town" post.
I didn't intend it to sound aggressive, sorry Just pointing out that i read stutters posts with a pretty neutral mindset and found nothing towny in them.
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Even further along that line, i take it that you don't see stutters as more towny post-flip?
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On September 26 2016 22:50 DanelerH wrote:Rather than looking at Stutters individually, it may be best to look at the interactions xe had with Luna. In total, we have four posts: + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 08:03 Stutters695 wrote:
Seriously, did no one else catch what I quoted before I left besides Luna?
I'll give you a hint, go read SEQs filter (9 posts). The one I quoted shows a clear lack of reading, even incredibly early in the game.
I'm working another 2 hours, but if anyone has any questions fire away. No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own. On September 25 2016 10:56 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 10:11 DoYouHas wrote:
I am around Stutters. What are your thoughts on ptmc? I'll trade you for some on SEQ. I don't think ptmc is a better lynch before SEQ gets to respond. Voting me with his focus on Luna is super weird also. On September 25 2016 11:52 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll type this up in full once we leave and I go home, but drunk me would also be all about a Luna lynch On September 26 2016 05:54 Stutters695 wrote:
Voting so I don't forget while I'm at work.
Vote: Luna Out of all of these, the first post is the most interesting. It occured at some point after the blue "reveal." More specifically, however, it was posted directly after Luna claimed being pressured into revealing. It seems to be a slight defense of Luna, while simultaneously deflecting attention to someone else. What's even more interesting is the first sentence: "Seriously, did no one else catch what I quoted before I left besides Luna?" I looked back at Luna's filter, but I couldn't find an instance of Luna referring to Stutter's quote. This appears to have been brought up earlier by Scott: + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 15:45 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 13:43 Jealous wrote:
Anyhow, right now the vote for me us between Lunatic and Stutters. It would be great if we can hear some analysis from these players of the same nature as SEQ above. This will help me decide which to vote for and to then post-humously analyze associations. So I've read Jealous's filter and this is the most informative post in his whole filter. Still not a big fan of you though. So let me read Luna's and Stutter's filters. I've observed a lot more Stutters games than Luna's (although there have been a couple) Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 15:19 Lunaticman wrote:
Hello my name is Lunatic and I have an addiction problem. I play to much mafia.
If you have have any advice for me please call me at1-999-MAFIAADDICT or leave a message at killstomanybadguys15@gmail.com
Also good morning everyone.
Also last post ftw! Obvious townie points! Not a big fan of this opening - looks like tryhard. Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Need to see why he thinks Stutters is such obv town. Hmm Then the bad blue role post. Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 07:50 Lunaticman wrote:
You clearly didnt read the whole thing ptmc because I got pressured into saying Stutters was a blue read by rels and Da.
They called me scum for it and I saw no positive outcome in hiding the information since he could br killed by being a townread player anyway. No matter how you spin it you can make anyone look scummy.
Im going to sleep now and Im putting my vote on Da so I dont miss it. Well I liked Rels's posts so far - so hmmm Verdict: Could lynch Stutters - Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 14:31 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Emphasis mine. I'd lynch for this Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 08:03 Stutters695 wrote:
Seriously, did no one else catch what I quoted before I left besides Luna?
I'll give you a hint, go read SEQs filter (9 posts). The one I quoted shows a clear lack of reading, even incredibly early in the game.
I'm working another 2 hours, but if anyone has any questions fire away. No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own. Okay - I've re-read this thought about three times - and I think I get it.
The thing I do like about it is Stutters believes in his find of lack of reading. I don't think he'd be so daring as mafia.
The thing is - I don't see where Luna quoted it though. :/Verdict: Wouldn't lynch today Stutter's responded to this with: + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 16:24 Stutters695 wrote:
He didn't quote it, he said something like the post above this is good. What are your thoughts on SEQ? In this, Stutters once again deflects the questioning back to SoulEaaterQUEEN, but let's ignore that for a moment and focus the first part: "He didn't quote it, he said something like the post above this is good." The thing is, Luna didn't say that, either. That makes two instances of defending Luna, while deflecting the question at someone else, specifically SEQ. Now let's look at the third quote: "drunk me would also be all about a Luna lynch." Prior to this, there was nothing about wanting to lynch Luna. Around that time, xe was still after SEQ. Before you say that xe was feeling better about SEQ, that's impossible at this time, as SEQ was still catching up. Take a look at the timestamps: + Show Spoiler +On September 25 2016 11:52 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 15:51 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning.
Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt. I don't believe in RVS for much the same reasons that I listed for reads. I will rarely if ever trust a player that votes and un-votes and re-votes multiple times per lynch cycle. Decisions like that need to be done with a firm hand, and not frivolously. Too many people playing silly pressure games can result in a ML. Mafia is a game of psychology, and voting creates social pressure on parties that may otherwise be more objective and thus could contribute to the discussion/analysis and not simply sheep or jump on a train. Not sure what you mean by the bolded above. I'm in this as a newbie so I'm definitely not a well-seasoned player ^^ Thank you, but don't suck up to me just yet, I tend to be wrong a lot, unfortunately. On September 24 2016 14:31 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Emphasis mine. I'd lynch for this I would appreciate some elaboration on this. Alright playing the catch up game~ my activity in this game has been shitty. What exactly do you mean by a "silly pressure game"? You are agreement that we need to put pressure with votes to gain info though right? otherwise I am not understanding your thought process... Not suck up, but rather don't want to underestimate your abilities. Bolded refers to what kinds of conclusions can you arrive with at this - yet to know the answer to this. On September 25 2016 11:52 Stutters695 wrote:
I'll type this up in full once we leave and I go home, but drunk me would also be all about a Luna lynch At this time, SEQ hadn't made any posts to make Stutters feel better, so the sudden change in votes is very odd. Afterwards, there was no mention of Luna until the vote (quote 4). Overall, I believe these point towards Stutters being aligned with Luna and we should make Stutters our Day 2 lynch.
Yep, i agree with this 100 %. The third mafia imo is scott, massive wall of text incoming.
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I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read:
+ Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more
+ Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-readSkynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post this is maybe not red, but at least weird Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual contentptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing LunaticXatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on LunaticI guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended? Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiateXatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involvedDanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agreesXatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring LunaticSkynx now asks about Lunatics town readptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blueStutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQJealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town postDYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time? Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on LunaticJealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQstill no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment" Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on himLunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynchXatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes LunaticRels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his trSkynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed townXatalos questions this logicRels votes LunaticSkynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work
Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for.
Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch:
solid town:
DanelerH
Calix
town lean:
Jealous
Rels
SEQ
superbia (for actually noticing scott)
inconsistent:
Xatalos
Skynx
scum leans (lynch all day err'day)
Scott, stutters, dyh
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On September 26 2016 23:47 Stutters695 wrote:
Just woke up. You guys aren't lynching me d2 lol.
why not?
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On September 26 2016 23:53 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote:On September 26 2016 23:47 Stutters695 wrote:
Just woke up. You guys aren't lynching me d2 lol. why not? 1) I'm town 2) if I was scum and Luna said that, I would have slapped some rockets on and bussed him straight to the moon. 3) I don't get mislynched unless I'm straight afk essentially.
1) who's not?
2) Maybe you did?
3) So if we lynch you it is not a mislynch?
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On September 26 2016 23:53 Superbia wrote:
I did the math and we should kill scott and giacomo (dyh).
Alternatively there could also be a mafia between Xat or Rels.
Any preference between Xat or Rels? If i had to pick between the two i would go for Xat.
Still not sold on Stutters? Do you see anyting towny in his filter?
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On September 26 2016 23:57 Superbia wrote:
Oh wait. Skynx is also possibly not town. I had a reason as to why I call him not mafia but I forgot.
Anyway plenty of time and lynches to go so yeah.
Kill scott. Have DYH and Skynx fight it out gladiator style.
Keep an eye on Xat and the frenchman.
So basically my reads minus stutters. Care to elaborate why not him?
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On September 27 2016 00:01 Stutters695 wrote:
Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to type some stuff up. Usually I would wait until EoD, but I work before then so I'll just throw it out. You guys will be like "wow, he does things and they make some sense, this dude is probably town." Just know you're cutting into my Overwatch time and that makes me sad.
I have 100% confidence I won't be lynched.
So you're not really worried about a night kill taking all your valuable insight to the grave?
All the people i know seem sadder while playing overwatch, but maybe you are an exception
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On September 27 2016 00:20 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote:I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read: + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-readSkynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post this is maybe not red, but at least weird Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual contentptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing LunaticXatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on LunaticI guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended? Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiateXatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involvedDanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agreesXatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring LunaticSkynx now asks about Lunatics town readptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blueStutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQJealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town postDYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time? Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on LunaticJealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQstill no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment" Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on himLunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynchXatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes LunaticRels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his trSkynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed townXatalos questions this logicRels votes LunaticSkynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for. Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott) inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh This is quite impressive p: in particular this made me reread Jealous post where he called Lunatic's post retarded. It's very true that it's a strong word to use on your teammate so it is a town indicator for Jealous. Stutters is still 99% town because of how Lunatic treated him. And Superbia did like nothing this game yet, if scott is scum I agree that he's a unlikely partner but until that happens he's not town. Other than that, this list is pretty good
Even if scott is not scum, i still think superbia deserves some credit for giving a well based scumread. I'm not sold on the Stutters Lunatic interaction. Do you have anything else that makes him town? He has a weird, unbased SEQ-read crush, and his (non-)interaction with Lunaticman was just odd D1.
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On September 27 2016 00:27 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 00:23 Jealous wrote:On September 26 2016 17:06 Rels wrote:On September 26 2016 13:30 Jealous wrote:
@Scott: Interesting. I agree with quite a few of those reads. Acott, maybe you could explain what you were thinking in your vote post better? It looked pretty damn scummy in retrospect, don't you agree?
Now I'm wondering how to make sense of the DHY read. Here are the options:
A. They are both scum and Scott is bussing. Sadly, I don't see this as being very likely because it hasn't been that long since Calix's post so he wouldn't know if it overwhelmingly convinced town to the point where he would have to bus. OR MAYBE THAT'S WHAT HE WANTS US TO THINK! WIFOM. I also find this unlikely because the numbers would be horrendous for Scott going onwards, and there is no way he would be allowed to live to the final day. The only thing Scott would have going for him is if he is the GF and therefore if there is an investigator, they will become useless for the remainder of the game and Scott might get town cred for bussing that can't be factually revoked.
B. Scott is scum, DHY is town. I think this one is self-explanatory. Scott jumps on the train early on and is doing so out of self-defense. Chances are he would still be lynched next day with a green flip on DHY, but maybe he is hoping he could weasel his way out? This would effectively leave Scott in no better a position than in A., and I find it hard to believe he has balls of this size. Perhaps he is banking on his ally pulling through; that they are someone who is highly trusted right now.
C. Scott is town, DHY is scum. Again, pretty self-explanatory. Scott genuinely feels DHY is scum/is doing it to stay alive. Can't glean much from this perspective , seems logically possible.
D. They are both town. Similar mindset to C, except the outcome is worse for town. Seems less likely than C but I might be tunneling and thus want to believe at least one of them must be scum.
I definitely like Scott's post-accusation post better than DHY's, but DHY spent his remaining free time trying to create a case on me so didn't have time to do anything else I'm guessing. I'd like to hear what DHY comes back with in terms of reads so I can get a more solid opinion. I'd also like to see more detailed filter analysis from Scott on at least his scum reads and perhaps his soft town reads.
Sigh, it's hard for me to pick which option is the most likely. If I knew more about Scott as a player (whether he has the gumption to continue playing in options A or B). What does everyone else think? I really, really don't understand your way of thinking. If scott is scum he's gonna push a mislynch. Why are you dismissing B) just because "scum!scott would have some balls to push a mislynch on DYH" ? If scott is scum and DYH town, he is merely pushing the easiest mislynch available, not making a big play! That's more or less what I said. The reason it might have come off as me describing a big play is because I feel that if he succeeds in getting the lynch on a town DYH, Scott is next on the chopping block, after which we'd presumably have only 1 scum left. The reason I didn't find it likely is because it seems like an unwinnable scenario and I wasn't sure if Scott would go for it. This doesn't make sense if you think about it. If scott is scum and DYH is town, scott easiest path to survival right now is aiming for a DYH ML. It doesn't matter that it leaves him in a worse position D3 - it's better than dying D2.
I guess Jealous would rather play more passive as mafia, rather than spearheading the ML. But i see nothing AI either way, more indicative of your playstyles.
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I don't even think he really dismisses it, just for him (an his playstyle) it feels suboptimal.
Anyway, i have to go now. Probably won't be back before the nightkill, so see you tomorrow!
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Apparently everyone likes stutters. Well, we have two pretty clear lynches ahead of us, so no biggie. Let's see what he comes up with in the meantime.
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On September 27 2016 03:37 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Both Scott and Jeal look alright to me why ppl wanna lynch them?
One of the bussers is prolly one of the highly townread pace controllers aka Xata/Rels/Calix.
I might have some time in evening. I'm almost positive Calix isn't scum. After the early responses and just solid logic/play, I can't see it. Easily my strongest town read. Unless the plan was to bus from the start, it's also very unlikely Rels is scum since he could have just ignored Luna's read on me. Xata I'm not as confident on but I've got a town feeling about him. Admittedly, I haven't finished my reread (stopped at pg 20) but even what I remember from after that point seemed pretty solid. Jealous is about the same as Xata for me right now. Scott DYH DanelerH ptmc likely has a scum among them, which I need to look into more. Early inclination is Scott/Dan especially.
Where do you see the problem with Dan?
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On September 27 2016 05:44 Skynx wrote:
I read Calix filter, pretty sure he's town almost 100% of the time with the actualy game solving mentality throughout.
Scott and Super I'm ok with tr'ing based on the tone. Like the all natural and genuine tone is there for majority of their posts while I'm not getting the same for some people. Man who was it someone told me Scott never ever busses as scum anyone can relate?
how is tone the best thing you have for reading scott? Superbia maybe because he wasn't around, but scott has done several weird things to get such a free pass from you.
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if you're in a hurry, post 695 should give you almost anything you need for now
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On September 27 2016 09:22 DoYouHas wrote:
Response to Rels:
#1. I actually had 3 people I thought were likely scum D1. I also gave 4 town reads. I can't really respond to you saying everyone one of my reads is scummy since I don't know what that means.
I currently have no scum reads. I think I was wrong on Jealous and I'm not going to just jump to another person until I reassess the game. This just is what it is. I don't think it is scummy to realize a flaw in your own case, in fact I think it shows that I wasn't just trying to attack Jealous, I genuinely thought he was scum.
But apparently for no other reason than him attacking Lunatic, which after the flip is kind of hard to sell?
For claiming to know my meta you have a strange way of repeating history. In the exact game you reference you come after me for having low volume, for not liking the way I voted, and for not having scum reads, all around D1 and N1. Sound familiar? The case that caught HtS came AFTER a reassessment of the game and AFTER being attacked by yourself and others for not having scumreads. You paint me as a mover and shaker that gets shit done but forget that I really wasn't until I gained a mound of town cred for my role in getting HtS lynched. It is eerie how similar this early game dynamic between us is.
#2. "DYH baited a conversation" sounds so devious. As if I was luring Stutters into some big mistake. Which was what exactly? Talking to me? Talking about ptmc? I phrased it the way I did because why the hell not. I don't have a plan or a scheme or a reason outside of wanting to hear what he thought of ptmc and doing so before disagreeing with him about SEQ. Which is exactly what happened. I don't know where you are getting, "Stutters didn't take the bait". He gave me 2 solid thoughts on ptmc. Just because they were brief and my thoughts on SEQ weren't doesn't change that.
i don't care about either side on these points
#3. Me in respect to the Luna lynch is the only decent point you make here. I didn't think providing a town read on Stutters without a reason made him scum. After all, I had done the exact same thing and everyone focusing on Luna completely ignored it. I was actually thinking he was town, even after the power role crap even though it was anti-town. It was far from a confident read, but that was the way I was leaning. It wasn't until he had shut down for a goodly length of time that I started accepting him as a good lynch target. With him actually flipping scum my hesitancy in pursuing him and voting him doesn't look good, fair enough.
so, you agree that a case against you makes sense
However, here is where your argument is just bad. I did not like the play of Dane and Jealous, I thought their play was scummy. Their suspicions happened to be on Luna.
I don't agree that they "happened to be" on Luna. They called him out for playing weird, and his play just got weirder from it. And why would you focus on only Dane and Jealous, when literally the whole thread except for you, scott and stutters (and superbia) was pressuring Lunatic?
I thought Luna's play was anti-town and it was his lack of activity that pushed him into scummy territory. I wasn't putting forth my guess for the complete scum team, I was putting forth the people who looked scummy enough to me that I would want to lynch them, without drawing on pre-flip association.
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Every way you characterize me as scum is undercut by something else you don't like.
I don't want to analyse Luna but I engage Jealous on the topic. I 'defend' Luna by putting Dane and Jealous in my lynch list, but do nothing to move the lynch. I 'bus' Luna but in no way set myself up to look good on the flip.
I feel like the bus was too quick for mafia to react with a decent bus anyway.
I suppose I could be scum even with all of that from your perspective,
Yes
but I would be the most half-measure, lackluster scum ever, failing to take advantage of anything. I would really hope you would realize I'm better than that.
so far i see very little good from you. Easily leaning towards the half-measure scum.
Lastly, this isn't my scum meta. As scum I lurk, I position myself to look good the vast majority of the time, and I'm addicted to being right.
I don't care about this.
Show us you're towny instead of defending your play from D1!
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On September 27 2016 00:18 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 00:07 ptmc wrote:On September 27 2016 00:01 Stutters695 wrote:
Here's what's going to happen. I'm going to type some stuff up. Usually I would wait until EoD, but I work before then so I'll just throw it out. You guys will be like "wow, he does things and they make some sense, this dude is probably town." Just know you're cutting into my Overwatch time and that makes me sad.
I have 100% confidence I won't be lynched. So you're not really worried about a night kill taking all your valuable insight to the grave? All the people i know seem sadder while playing overwatch, but maybe you are an exception That's a negative Ghost Rider. I meant EoN, not EoD.
After this potential scum slip, which i will ignore, this is his "wow, he does things and they make some sense, this dude is probably town." post:
On September 27 2016 03:37 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Both Scott and Jeal look alright to me why ppl wanna lynch them?
One of the bussers is prolly one of the highly townread pace controllers aka Xata/Rels/Calix.
I might have some time in evening. I'm almost positive Calix isn't scum. After the early responses and just solid logic/play, I can't see it. Easily my strongest town read. Unless the plan was to bus from the start, it's also very unlikely Rels is scum since he could have just ignored Luna's read on me. Xata I'm not as confident on but I've got a town feeling about him. Admittedly, I haven't finished my reread (stopped at pg 20) but even what I remember from after that point seemed pretty solid. Jealous is about the same as Xata for me right now. Scott DYH DanelerH ptmc likely has a scum among them, which I need to look into more. Early inclination is Scott/Dan especially.
No. Just no. Everything apart from Calix and Rels doesn't even have reasoning!
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On September 27 2016 01:33 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2016 23:47 ptmc wrote:I went through the Lunatic trainwreck again and tried to objectively sum up what happend chronologically, open for "unbiased" read: + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie" Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-read Skynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual content ptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1 Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later" Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels" Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing Lunatic Xatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read. Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on Lunatic Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiate Xatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involved DanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read Rels agrees Xatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated. Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring Lunatic Skynx now asks about Lunatics town read ptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd" Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where I give my reasons why I think a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls me out because ptmc "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blue Stutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own" DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQ Jealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town post DYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on Lunatic Jealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today" Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQ Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on him Lunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1) Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynch Xatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes Lunatic Rels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his tr Skynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed town Xatalos questions this logic Rels votes Lunatic Skynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like his two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work And my comments for it, marked in red stuff i think is scummy, in green things i think is towny (obviously in the light of the successful lynch) with some comments centered where i needed to say some more + Show Spoiler +Skynx calls Lunatics intro bad Lunatic calls Stutters "so far the most obvious townie"Already in the next post (1 hour later) Calix calls out Lunatic for his town-readSkynx does not pick up on the read however, even though he quotes the post this is maybe not red, but at least weird Lunatic repeats his claim against Calix' push, but without any actual contentptmc scum leans Lunatic for his town read Rels wants Lunatic to explain his town read, but also likes Stutters for "weak reasons" Lunatic doesn't want to explain his reasoning day 1Rels is fine with leaving it at that, gives Lunatic a scum lean for it though This triggers a short discussion between the two, not really yielding anything new DanelerH pushes Stutters, gets called out by Xatalos Xatalos town reads Stutters because he "gathers too much attention" Rels agrees on Xatalos' push on DanelerH Xatalos disregards Lunaticmans town read, Post 270: "Meh, I guess there isn't really much to talk about in their filters" (Their being Lunatic and Jealous) again, at least weird, since it had obviously already sparked discussion DanelerH pushes Lunatic to give his reasons for the town read, does not accept "I'll tell you later"Lunatic now calls Stutters a blue role, and says that "if he dies it is on you [DanelerH] and Rels"Jealous thinks both Stutters and Lunatic are "dodgy" DanelerH keeps on pushing LunaticXatalos wants to "focus on more helpful topics" instead of elaborating Lunaticmans town read.
Xatalos then calls out DanelerH for his push on LunaticI guess this is Lunatics blue role claim on stutters working out as intended? Rels asks Lunatic why he thinks Stutters is a blue role, since blue roles and scum can be hard to differentiateXatalos again wants to stop the discussion since blue roles are involvedDanelerH doubts the blue role claim, thinks Lunaticman is faking it to not have to give a reason for the town read
Rels agreesXatalos reacts with On September 25 2016 01:47 Xatalos wrote:
I guess that's a possibility. Well, let's see. Lunatic tries to explain his town read/blue role read with meta, and stutters high activity. "Of course he has a power role". He is surprised that it escalated.Xatalos again says he is unsure that we should discuss the topic further, but would be fine with an elaboration on the meta-read part Skynx accuses DanelerH of tunneling on Lunatic
Scott scumreads DanelerH, while completely ignoring LunaticSkynx now asks about Lunatics town readptmc continues his push on Lunatic, and agrees on DanelerH's assumption on the blue role claim Xatalos explains his reasoning on his scumlean on DanelerH, says that he throws more weak suspicion on a very easy target without committing, and that he dislikes discussing blue roles D1 Skynx calls DanelerH's reasoning for his Lunatic push "absurd"Xatalos says that there hasn't been much meat to DanelerH's suspicions, but says that him committing to the Lunatic push might become interesting ptmc calls out Skynx's attack on DanelerH Xatalos says that there are people that have the gift of immediately noticing if someone has a BPR, and that we should stop elaborating on it in the thread After a short discussion, where ptmc gives his reasons why he thinks a push on Lunatic is a good thing, Xatalos says that he maybe was too tunneled on DanelerH, agrees that Lunatics tr was odd and that he would like to see a reason for it Lunatic calls ptmc out because he "missed" how Rels and DanelerH pushed him to say Stutters is a blueStutters shows up, tries to focus on SEQ. "No comment on the blue stuff, scum can try to figure it out on their own"
DYH shows up, no comment on Lunatic at all, wants thoughts on me for thoughts on SEQJealous shows up, calls out Lunatic for "retarded" anti town postDYH reacts to Jealous' push on Lunatic, asking if he thinks it is bad play or scum Jealous thinks it is almost too blatant to be scum DYH wants to know if Jealous would lynch for it Mafia feeling out the waters if it is bussing time? Discussion between DYH and Stutters about other people Jealous does not feel like his scum read is strong enough to warrant a vote, wants to hear other peoples opinion first SEQ shows up, wants lunatic to elaborate on his town read and thinks that DanelerH tunnels too hard on him. Still ends up with a scum lean on only Lunatic. SEQ is now the first vote on LunaticJealous says his vote is between Lunatic and Stutters Scott returns, quotes Lunatics posts that were written well before scott went away. Now he says that he could lynch for them. Reassesses Stutters as well, arrives at "Wouldn't lynch today"This looks so much like bussing, especially with him ignoring those posts previously Scott is worried that noone town reads or defends Lunatic Stutters again asks about SEQstill no word on lunatic except the earlier "no comment" Calix reappears, calls out Lunatic for his aggressive reactions, but thinks he is more anti-town than pro-scum Calix also calls out DanelerH for his weak case Calix is sceptical of a correct lynch between DanelerH and Lunatic Jealous agrees on the "more anti town part" but sticks his vote on lunatic anyway This vote was only posted in the discussion thread, not in the voting thread btw. Calix reevaluates her Lunatic case, finds it a better lynch, votes on himLunatic shows up with another weak defense (there never is a mafia lynch day 1)
Scott has SEQ at just under null, asks Lunatic who he wants to lynchXatalos has Lunatic as a lynch candidate Lunatic fluffs some more Xatalos and Jealous call him out for it, Xatalos votes LunaticRels returns, still pushes Lunatic for his trSkynx feels like Lunatic is just misinformed townXatalos questions this logicRels votes LunaticSkynx claims little time to play, feels like DYH is the best lynch and votes him Superbia thinks his presence might not be needed after realizing lunatic is being lynched DYH says DanelerH's tunnle onto Luna is contrived, Luna has made an anti town play and shut down, it feels like DYH doesn't like the lynch DYH thinks that Luna and Dane are not scum together, but either of them could be scum Rels doesn't agree with Skynx' assessment of DYH Superbia wants to kill scott, but thinks Lunatic is a fine lynch as well DYH votes Lunatic i will not give green "points" from here on for voting lunatic, since the train has reached critical mass already On September 26 2016 04:18 DoYouHas wrote:
##Vote: Luna
Kind of a shame, in my head he was going to come back strong today and I was going to be able to make a case for Dane over him. But every hour that goes by without him contributing makes it more and more likely he flips scum. Next post, scott votes Lunatic On September 26 2016 04:18 scott31337 wrote:
Allright, so I even asked Luna who he wanted to lynch and didn't even say. He had two wordy posts that didn't have any content. There's a couple other people trying to push other lynches now too - so I feel more confident voting for him. Rels and Stutters ask superbia why he dislikes scott DanelerH now votes Lunatic with a reads list post Calix doesn't like the new additions to the train on Lunatic Rels dislikes DanelerH's reads list (most boring ever) Xatalos also asks why superbia dislikes scott Superbia doesn't like scotts two scumreads with no followup and his forced vote on luna A lot of discussion happens, that is not relevant to this train (imo) ptmc returns and moves his vote from stutters to lunatic Stutters votes Lunatic so he doesn't forget while at work Take home message says scott had access to very bad posts by Lunatic way before he goes afk, but choses to ignore them. Only when the train has become unstoppable for mafia he "revisits" them and now they are strong enough to lynch for. Other reads from the Lunaticman-Lynch: solid town: DanelerH Calix town lean: Jealous Rels SEQ superbia (for actually noticing scott) inconsistent: Xatalos Skynx scum leans (lynch all day err'day) Scott, stutters, dyh That's a nice list of the events. I think it's pretty accurate. Didn't at least see anything glaringly wrong. Well, not really sure why me being against discussing blue roles is in red there, but *shrug*, I can live with that. Hm. Not entirely sure why Skynx is on the same level as me based on that list? I guess it's fair to say that DanelerH looks quite a bit better than before and scott/DYH worse. Hm, I agree that Stutters' reactions to Lunatic are oddly distant, but wouldn't put him on the same level especially considering Lunatic's posts about Stutters.
It just strikes me as odd that you "fell" for Lunatics "he's a blue role, lets stop talking about it" defense.
You think skynx should be more towny or more scummy?
And if we disregard Lunatics post on Stutters, since it is basically pure WIFOM?
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On September 27 2016 06:35 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2016 06:29 Skynx wrote:On September 27 2016 06:19 Calix wrote:
If you think that mafia would find it impossible to push Lunatic like SEQ did (will check in a moment) then what stops him from being in your god-tier town bracket? On September 25 2016 11:56 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Thanks for the read though not sure how you arrived on that conclusion on the obvious townie part of Stutters, would like some elaboration please. but the rest of the post feels like it is filled with filler. Don't get the point of it. This is the first post him pushing Lunatic, like only few hours into game. On September 25 2016 12:30 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 25 2016 01:51 Lunaticman wrote:
Im going to concert so the TLDR, is tone/meta/activity. Stutters has shown more intrest and activity in the first day than recent games combined.
Of course he has a power role, and from context I dont think he is mafia.
I am kind of suprised by how this escelated from a simple townread. It feels like someone doesnt want to build a town circle and jerk peoples chain instead. & what is wrong with jerking people's chain approach exactly??? On September 25 2016 12:41 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 25 2016 07:50 Lunaticman wrote:
You clearly didnt read the whole thing ptmc because I got pressured into saying Stutters was a blue read by rels and Da.
They called me scum for it and I saw no positive outcome in hiding the information since he could br killed by being a townread player anyway. No matter how you spin it you can make anyone look scummy.
Im going to sleep now and Im putting my vote on Da so I dont miss it. Confused here. How does one get pressured into a blue read? Your read is your read, f*ck everyone else's opinion unless you are unsure. ^_^ (though I may have interpreted this part, oopsie if I did) also note: just because you do scummy things, you shouldn't change your actions/thoughts for other people, playing to someone else's ways is going to make you look a hellava scummier player by being unsure of your playstyle. He continues on like this until Lunatic does the blue read and all that jazz. He literally forces a mistake from mafia by sheer pressure. You're right he should be top tier actually but i dunno some stuff in my mind prevented that. I'm actually so fkin tired. While I agree that he is likely town, I think you're giving him too much credit here. He wasn't the only person pushing Lunatic in the manner that you described above - this leads me to conclude that SEQ was part of the collective pressure on Lunatic, not that SEQ was the sole player who was pressuring Lunatic prior to the TPR post. Tired, huh? All I have to do to relate is to read your posts But I'd like a more fleshed-out read if we're both still alive in like 20 fucking minutes, lol.
He very much was part of the collective pressure. Although he was the first to vote, the questioning of Lunatic started with
Calix
Me
Rels
DanelerH
Skynx
Jealous
and then SEQ, in chronological order. Maybe enough for a quick bus? Dunno.
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On September 28 2016 15:12 scott31337 wrote:So these quiet Europeans are some bullshit. + Show Spoiler [notes] +
1) Calix - Who are your two scum reads - you were never quiet your last game here, wtf?
3) DanelerH - Actually been here today a bit, but answer as well - who are your two scum reads?
4) ptmc - Who are your two scum reads? - you seem to be pushing Stutters or want more information on him, what do you think?
5) Jealous - announced
6) SoulEaterQUEEN Tictock -announced
Veterans
1) Stutters695 - Two scum reads -asked already, "I'll be back"
2) Rels - two scum reads
3) Skynx - announced
4) Xatalos - announced
5) DoYouHas - flailing
6) Superbia - dead
7) scott31337 - town
Calix - Who are your two scum reads - you were never quiet until you were dead last game, what has changed? DanelerH - Actually been here today a bit, but answer as well - What do you think of Stutters? Who are your two scum reads? ptmc - Who are your two scum reads? Stutters695 - Two scum reads -asked already, "I'll be back" - waiting for response. Rels - Who are your two scum reads?
I'm not able to reduce them to only two (How could I?). So far I have seen nothing to change my reads from 8 pages ago: Stutters, DYH and yourself as the worst bunch, Xat and Skynx as backups.
I don't even care too much which one of the bad trio we start with atm, will have to decide with what happens in these last couple of hours.
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On September 28 2016 08:02 Stutters695 wrote:
So I managed to sleep at 13 hours. I'm at work now, can try to field some questions if anyone would like but I'll be back in full after I get off (6-7hrs from now)
I hope you did something productive in the two hours you have been off work now?
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On September 28 2016 18:42 Calix wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I don't relate to a lot of the associative logic that's being used. Probably a site meta difference because scum on my site are more prone to low-key pushing their scum buddies to distance themselves before making some weird-ass defenses of them later on so it's really jarring to see people (like myself, Skynx, TT, etc) get town-read with the first point as a large contributing factor to that town-read. Is it really that rare for scum buddies to question each other?
Both the Skynx case (by Xatalos) and the Xatalos associations case (by Skynx) were absolute crap and were reliant on confirmation bias to support a pre-existing point. They just consisted of some throwaway comments which may possibly indicate scum/ scum interactions but maybe not and it was painful to read. Of those posts, TT made the best point when he said that Xatalos was being a hedge master with regards to Lunatic and talking too much and saying too little. Could just be how he talks (if anyone who's played with him before could chip in with their thoughts there then that would be good) but if I find the time then I'm going to see if his tone changed over the game. If it did then that's incriminating as hell.
Skynx' reaction to Xatalos was the most riled up I've seen him and that was in response to him being attacked. It stands out to me because of the departure from his more resigned "lynch me" attitude near the D1 EOD to someone who is defending themselves more vigorously.
@Skynx, what changed for you here?
Right now I think DYH is the best lynch. He's still not scum-hunting and whatever he's preparing had better be good and a lot of his defense was WIFOM (I wouldn't do X as scum) and meta analysis (which I don't understand nor do I care to because meta is shit). It's funny because he's spent more time on talking about himself over anyone else and that self-involvement is not something that comes from town.
Yeah, this can die.
Stutters is also scummy. Something I've noticed with him is that he is always promising to do certain things ("I'll have this big post ready before EON/ EOD" being just one example) but has followed through on almost none of them and I have not seen a RL reason for him not doing that or any explanation at all. He just drops it. It's like he says that to get people off his back because nobody wants to waste someone's time when they've promised to do XYZ. + Show Spoiler +
@Scott, I've just started university and I just got a new job, so I only get an hour or so to myself on most days.
Above two are the players I think are the most likely scum atm. I think Scott is also a possibility and TT's points make me want to re-visit my Xatalos read too. Also going to look at Jealous, Skynx too just because they have been less active so I need to remind myself of what they've done this game.
Finally someone also sees the scumminess in him. I was starting to think i was insane
On September 28 2016 18:51 Rels wrote:
I want to respond to your Stutters thing but I'm leaving for lunch. I'll do it after that because to me he's either confirmed town or scum depending on how this game develops, unless I misread something
Please do. there are definitely cases where I can see him being town in the future, but I don't feel like the overarching tr he is getting atm is warranted.
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So stutters is modkilled at EON?
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On September 29 2016 12:48 scott31337 wrote:
Well that sucks.
Don't think I'll say much until EoD
Could you at least update your reads list, or do you now have no scum reads since all of them have turned out to be town?
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On September 29 2016 06:48 Tictock wrote:
So those of you not voting with the winning wagon here are doing it wrong.
can you elaborate?
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On September 29 2016 07:08 Xatalos wrote:
Hm. stutters didn't vote?
There are still two good reasons to townread him, but his play is really...
On September 29 2016 07:12 Calix wrote:
Instead of waving around promises of reasoning, maybe just say it so that I don't have to ask you for it? lol
I read DYH's reasoning on Stutters and I'm not convinced since it's partly because of self-meta (NAI) and he changes his mind mid-way through the read.
And his minor point about Jealous' comment isn't bad. I still should get around to rereading him sometime, definitely not now though.
Pretty please?
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On September 29 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2016 06:48 DoYouHas wrote:On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote:
DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh. Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch. So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely. Is there something other on scott than NK analysis?
Is there NK analysis against scott? Because sup scumread him? But that definitely is not the main aspect of scotts scummyness, see his interaction with lunatic for instance.
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I still have Scott and Stutters as the main scumreads. Stutters obviously hasn't changed since he didn't post anything, and Scott has no more scumreads. That doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest.
He also ignored the train on Lunatic for the longest time, to then take posts he didn't even deem important enough to discuss earlier as his reason to vote for him in the lynch.
His filter is 2 pages of nothing.
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On September 30 2016 06:58 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2016 06:40 ptmc wrote:On September 29 2016 06:50 Xatalos wrote:On September 29 2016 06:48 DoYouHas wrote:On September 29 2016 06:39 Calix wrote:
DYH, why try to start a new train when you could vote for Stutters?
I find that extremely weird when you said he was a possible scum tbh. Let's be honest here, I'm not turning this train on me around. There is too much information to be gained and too much has happened/not happened to and from me to not go through with the lynch. So I'm going to put my vote on the person I think is most likely to flip scum. Stutters is possible scum but I still trust my gut reads from early in the game. If I end up being wrong, so be it, but I think Scott is more likely. Is there something other on scott than NK analysis? Is there NK analysis against scott? Because sup scumread him? But that definitely is not the main aspect of scotts scummyness, see his interaction with lunatic for instance. I don't see how anything DYH posted suggested scott is scum.
I think he meant the last Night, so superbias death?
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Sadly I will not have the time to play at all over the week-end. Gonna see if something has changed till the evening, otherwise my vote on Stutters still stands. I'll be back on tuesday, so in time for the next vote.
Still got my eyes on Scott, Xat and Skynx as well, in that order. Xat feels less towny the longer the game goes on.
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On October 01 2016 03:48 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 03:34 Stutters695 wrote:On October 01 2016 03:03 Xatalos wrote:On October 01 2016 03:00 Calix wrote:On September 30 2016 02:27 Stutters695 wrote:On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote:
So stutters is modkilled at EON? Sorry guys. I got really busy. Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled. Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game. At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing. He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting. Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town. Outside of that scum game Scott linked, my scum record is pretty dope. I'd like to hear your other point on me however. Honestly, if I was looking at me from the outside, I'd want me dead as well. I'll say it tomorrow, if it looks like you'll be lynched otherwise. It'd be better though if you could actually, you know, play the game
if you want to change my vote you have like 5 mins max, since ill be off by then.
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On October 01 2016 04:13 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 04:11 ptmc wrote:On October 01 2016 03:48 Xatalos wrote:On October 01 2016 03:34 Stutters695 wrote:On October 01 2016 03:03 Xatalos wrote:On October 01 2016 03:00 Calix wrote:On September 30 2016 02:27 Stutters695 wrote:On September 29 2016 15:05 ptmc wrote:
So stutters is modkilled at EON? Sorry guys. I got really busy. Just a warning this time. Won't be modkilled. Jesus tit-sucking Christ, that's a shameless mod-dodge if I ever saw one. Doesn't even comment on the fucking game. At this point, he needs to be policy-lynched now rather than later to clear shit up. He's a black hole that makes it difficult to judge other players and the discussion around him is getting stale because he does nothing. He's already survived two days longer than he should have done and that was back when he was actually posting. Gotta admit that his play has been subpar at best... It's subpar as either alignment though, not merely subpar as town. Outside of that scum game Scott linked, my scum record is pretty dope. I'd like to hear your other point on me however. Honestly, if I was looking at me from the outside, I'd want me dead as well. I'll say it tomorrow, if it looks like you'll be lynched otherwise. It'd be better though if you could actually, you know, play the game if you want to change my vote you have like 5 mins max, since ill be off by then. You won't be online until deadline, really?
I'll be online next time on tuesday (mb monday evening), yes.
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K. Here's hopig for a good lynch. See you after the weekend!
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whee!
Thanks for hosting, and thanks for coaching HtS!
Xat did move further into scum territory while i red what had happened over the course of the weekend, and I was all about continuing my case on him from his Lunatic defense. But Calix, I thought you said you never bussed in the previous game 
Never trust anyone it seems.
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EPT
