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Why not try?
/in (newbie/first game)
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On September 18 2016 06:16 Half the Sky wrote:Welcome to the fray. And welcome back Jealous.
Thanks! Any estimates when this will start?
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/confirm in thread as well
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I'll have to see how much time I can find over the weekend, but at the latest on monday i will be here in force.
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Hi, I'll be here for the next 30 minutes at least. Going to read what you've written so far. Excited to get going!
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On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote:
I second your point about meta. At the end of the day, meta is so often skewed by perspective and interpretation. While it may help in some cases, it is rarely a solid argument when trying to convince others because it boils down to "Town X wouldn't do that! They didn't do it in game Y!" and then X says "But in game Z I did that and I was town!" so on and so forth.
Especially the last part of your argument would make me extremely suspicious of X, since it means that he actively looked for something meta-y in a game to replicate.
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On September 24 2016 15:51 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 14:02 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I liked that last bit you wrote in the post. I feel the same way but I tend to be impulsive and pressurize my way into getting reads as a natural reaction when I begin playing through RVS which has lead to some results in getting activity in the game which is nice. I still have yet to see the point in the RVS in general but noticed the lack of presence of it so far here. Would like to hear the views of how you perceive RVS/what kinds of points given. This may not lead to alignment indicative posts, but gives me an understanding of where people's heads are at this point in the game.
That being said, I like how confident tone in that post, it could be from a very well seasoned player, but normally see caution amongst scum at the beginning, so I am definitely light town reading Jealous based on the #233, I also like how there is consistency on the behaviour reasoning for the post I questioned which again feels like they are not frabricating a reasoning.
Please note, my reads tend to have a dynamic flow as the game state changes so take it with a grain of salt. I don't believe in RVS for much the same reasons that I listed for reads. I will rarely if ever trust a player that votes and un-votes and re-votes multiple times per lynch cycle. Decisions like that need to be done with a firm hand, and not frivolously. Too many people playing silly pressure games can result in a ML. Mafia is a game of psychology, and voting creates social pressure on parties that may otherwise be more objective and thus could contribute to the discussion/analysis and not simply sheep or jump on a train. Not sure what you mean by the bolded above.
I agree with this statement. Not so much because I could not trust a player that changes his vote, since there can be good reasons for that. But a vote that is declared to be random does not really apply any pressure, and a vote without a case, so an undeclared random vote, does either.
I also think that a baseless vote will give you nothing AI, since there is no action/post to be explained by the accused. What kind of reaction would you want out of a player randomly accused?
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My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?
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On September 24 2016 19:48 Rels wrote:
ptmc is this your first game ever of forum mafia ?
yes
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On September 24 2016 22:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? I don't quite understand this part?
Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town.
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On September 24 2016 23:22 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 23:10 ptmc wrote:On September 24 2016 22:22 Xatalos wrote:On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? I don't quite understand this part? Ok, maybe a scum lean is too harsh. But I see no point in having a random vote as town, while for scum it leaves easy outs if it's a ML and you don't have to actually base your vote on any arguments, making it easier to lynch a town. Hm. I guess that kind of makes sense. Although it's pretty much impossible for scum to just leave a random vote up without any follow-up anyway.
Sure. But even if it doesn't result in a lynch, a random vote in the first day would leave one vote with no AI at all when analyzed later in the game, still only benefiting scum and not town.
On September 24 2016 23:43 Xatalos wrote:
Why exactly did you have a townread on Jealous, ptmc? And what did you think of DanelerH?
My town read on Jealous is mostly tone, and i could follow his train of thought. DanelerH is highly inconclusive to me.
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[QUOTE]On September 25 2016 04:24 scott31337 wrote:
Calix
I'm curious of the Jealous townread because at page 13 I'm not seeing it ptmc -
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 19:37 Rels wrote:
I don't like Jealous. And I don't like all the townreads he's getting simply for writing the most words in the thread. 80% of his content are about things that are not scumhunting and are very easy to write about: RVS, meta, PL.
The only thing he's done in terms of reads has been questionning Stutters with Calix. I don't liek that he's already justifying himself to not having to take a stance:
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe?[/QUOTE]
Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game. [/QUOTE]
So, Jealous, I want you to explain your stance on Stutters' answers to your questions.[/QUOTE]
This is exactly where I'm at with Jealous too[\QUOTE]
As i said before, my "read" on Jealous was mostly for tone. Having re-read his posts with your interpretation in mind, i start to see where you are coming from. Consider his town-lean revoked 
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disregard previous post, fucked the layout. Here's the correct one:
On September 25 2016 04:24 scott31337 wrote: Calix I'm curious of the Jealous townread because at page 13 I'm not seeing it ptmc - Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 18:50 ptmc wrote:
My reads so far:
town lean:
Calix
Jealous
since i can agree with their reasoning
slight scum lean:
SoulEaterQUEEN, but purely based on the RVS
Stutters, see calix' post, also his mentioning of his meta rubs me the wrong way
Lunatic, since he town reads my scum lean? Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 19:37 Rels wrote: I don't like Jealous. And I don't like all the townreads he's getting simply for writing the most words in the thread. 80% of his content are about things that are not scumhunting and are very easy to write about: RVS, meta, PL. The only thing he's done in terms of reads has been questionning Stutters with Calix. I don't liek that he's already justifying himself to not having to take a stance: On September 24 2016 13:29 Jealous wrote: On September 24 2016 12:05 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
I get a light town read on Calix based on #204, #207.
I'd like to hear more from Jealous, in #213, it sounds like a light scum read or suspicion on Stutter - but the way they phrase it as a question because they are confused makes me think they are hesitant on the read, just maybe? Not a scum read just yet. I don't crystallize or publicize my reads until I have a decent catalog of posts on which to base them, because I feel like weak pressure and baseless reads are harmful to town because they lack substance, have a higher probability of being wrong, and can lead to ML. I am just trying to get a feel for the players I am not familiar with and see what kind of person is behind the keyboard, why they say what they say, and thus look for inconsistencies in-game. So, Jealous, I want you to explain your stance on Stutters' answers to your questions. This is exactly where I'm at with Jealous too
As i said before, my "read" on Jealous was mostly for tone. Having re-read his posts with your interpretation in mind, i start to see where you are coming from. Consider his town-lean revoked
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I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx?
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Him being DanelerH.
I'll reread his posts now, but imo at worst he is tunneling for a good reason?
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On September 25 2016 05:05 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? 305 I mention his reasoning doesn't relate to his posting mindset, its a soft scumread at this point. Rels seems to like his way of going about Luna pr prediction on Stutters but its not much of a tell from my pow.
I guess i'm more with Rels here as well then. Tunneling (= tryhard sr?) on Lunaticman seems necessary to get any information out of him.
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On September 24 2016 19:46 Rels wrote:
I like Stutters. The reasons are kinda weak but I suppose it's normal for early game. Gonna wait for Lunatic to give me his reasons before disclosing mine.
With Lunaticman not wanting to disclose his read reasons, could you at least do us the favour?
On September 25 2016 01:33 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 00:23 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ Interesting idea. What does this achieve? Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^ Also hi there. I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you. I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night. Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him.
On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:Calix:
You only got two responses before claiming it was a reaction-test? My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people?  Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. On September 24 2016 11:46 SoulEaterQUEEN wrote:
[quote]
Interesting idea. What does this achieve?
Last time I checked, voting for yourself is a lazy way of avoiding pressure, gives no info, doesn't get you reads. Unless you are schizo ^_^
Also hi there.
I'm one of the newbs, this is my first on-site mafia, therefore I am not aware of the site meta. Also find it pointless to link off site meta examples personally. Too many players fall into the meta trap to conclude reads. Anyway this is shit fluff talking. Grill me, bake me, do whatever that makes you happy until my alignment cookie crumbles infront of you.
I'll post my RVS vote, and call it a night.
Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: On September 24 2016 08:26 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
This is how I get reactions (or saying something controversial then lurking and waiting for reactions, but you don't want that). Obviously I don't want to lynch a lurker though because I want to lynch Xata. Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. Stutters:
[quote]
My dear Watson, the game is afoot. That does seem kind of counterproductive in retrospect. I think this is the part though where you guys debate if I'm terrible, trying to come off as terrible while scum or part of some master play. Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it.
Stutters is so far the most obvious townie.
I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart.
This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything!
This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:
[quote]
Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. The game is 4 pages long day one, take a chill pill. I dare to say I have done more than half the players in the game and in my experience you never hit mafia day one. It is much better to build a town circle. Also Stutters is in all likelyhood a blue role. And if he dies it is on you and Rels. Why do you think that ? Blue role / scum are notably difficult to differentiate sometimes.
Do you even still think Stutters is town?
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On September 25 2016 05:03 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least. And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time.
I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read?
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On September 25 2016 05:17 Skynx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 05:05 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 05:00 Skynx wrote:On September 25 2016 04:58 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 04:13 Skynx wrote:On September 24 2016 08:26 DanelerH wrote:On September 24 2016 08:21 Jealous wrote:On September 24 2016 08:19 Stutters695 wrote:On September 24 2016 08:04 Xatalos wrote:
Unfortunately, looks like you can't vote for yourself in this setup :/ To everyone else, this is why we should lynch him today. He's always one step ahead, we'll never catch him. On a more serious note, how does everyone feel about going with the scummiest of the inevitable inactives? Activity always seems to be a struggle in these games and I won't be lynchbait for once. I'm usually pro-PL but it's too early to make such a decision. We need to see how others are posting. It's odd that you suggest this so early. This, plus there's Shutter's first post: On September 24 2016 07:46 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm here and not scum. How disappointing.
Anyway, as it stands I'd be all for a d1 Xata lynch. Pretty sure he's fooled me like the last 3 times he's been mafia and that's no good.
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me. So initially, contrary to Xatalos, i didn't think this is entirely bad. I can see myself saying something like the bolded bit, on the other hand reasons for coming up to the bolded part is shitty. Like Stutter's entry is nothing different than a "First! Townread me!", its entirel nai. So I'm thinking like hmmm he's a bit confused, then you wrote this... On September 24 2016 23:53 DanelerH wrote:I am not liking Lunaticman right now. First of all, basically all Lunatic has done is posted a random Town read. Let's take a look at it: On September 24 2016 16:38 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 16:18 Skynx wrote:
Hmm Lunatic intro worst i guess.
Man i dont get why get this PL discussion every game. Its quite simple, odds are town barely have any info D1 to decide on a proper lynch, hence guy with 2 posts dies. Sometimes scum slip, or someone has incredible meta read confidence or w/e, then you dont't pl. Simple stuff. Somehow I knew you would say that. I hope we can stay on friendly terms this time around but I doubt it. Stutters is so far the most obvious townie. I am a bit afraid of the logical development of this game. TL is filled with smarties that loves to talk the talk but always lynch the random dude that didnt sound smart. This will be the doom of us all I tell you, nobody can look more perfect then the mafia because they already know everything! This looks like the current meta afk townies and leading mafia for sure. This totally reminds me if the palmar/hf domination game check it out. Lunaticman just throws a random Town-read in the middle of a bunch of irrelevant information. Furthermore, xe doesn't give any reasoning for the Town-read. When asked about it, xe responded with this series of posts: On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 18:13 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 17:32 Calix wrote:Yo. I have a bit of time in the morning to pop in. I actually don't mind the activity as much as I usually would because the posting isn't just a bunch of useless spam and it's much easier to catch up/ reread stuff. [quote] Just to pop in with my two cents on this matter. Meta is good for establishing what is NAI for a player. (e.g., how often they vote or if they talk in a particular way) but I agree that a lot of people, myself included at times, use it as a substitute for analysis. I'm not familiar with many people here (I've only really played with Skynx/ Superbia/ Jealous before) and I'd like to keep it that way so that my analysis isn't skewed by some subjective interpretations of how XYZ played in a game like, 486973 years ago. Only exception is if it's a bad player who has pronounced differences between their town/ scum game that means they make themselves obvious or some shit. So if we could keep the "X is scum/ town due to meta" talk down to a minimum then that'll be lovely. As far as initial impressions go, I town-lean Jealous (this is mainly because we were posting similar things at approximately the same time when we were questioning Stutters so he's more likely to be coming from the same mindset as myself) Ambivalent on Daneler. I didn't like his entrance because he was using someone else's words to put forth his opinion and then commented on something that looks odd but his follow-up made sense. Stutters has done some questionable things with his claims to want to generate discussion. These two posts struck me as strange: [quote] Here he says that he was reaction-testing. NAI by itself but the fact that he capitulated so quickly makes me skeptical. Scum are more likely to shy away from their actions in this manner compared to town (who would be more confident in their ability to defend themselves) because they don't want too much attention. [quote] Here he notes that people are likely to discuss his posts. Again, totally normal thing to say by itself, but what I don't like is the fact that he notes most of the possibilities before anyone can actually talk about him...since this limits opportunities for discussion...which goes against his stated aim of getting reactions and thus starting conversation. It's not a legit contradiction or anything but I'd like Stutters to flesh out his reasoning here. [quote] What makes you think Stutters is the most townie player in the thread? Are you claiming to be one of the dumb-sounding people? Fourth part is just weird. It states the obvious ("mafia are informed and will try to look townie") but it does it in a hyperbolic manner. Where are you going here? If you think mafia are leading the discussion then that implies that you suspect players and this is something you did not put down in favour of a town-read. Who could fall under this category of 'leading mafia' in your eyes, if anyone? Stutters is obvious town for me at least, I can understand why you wouldn't notice but I have played with him 4 times in a row and I'm pretty sure he is town. Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:07 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 19:29 Rels wrote:
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Please explain Well I don't want to day 1 because of reasons to be disclosed at a later date. He is not going to be lynched today at the very least. I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. On September 24 2016 21:20 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:51 Rels wrote:On September 24 2016 20:49 Lunaticman wrote:On September 24 2016 20:27 Rels wrote:
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I'll remember that. This "I promise I have ghood reasons" comes more often from scum than from town though. That is just speculation and if you were town you wouldn't force me to say why I have a town read. Why woudln't I do such a thing ? So apparently you think I'm scum ? No I didn't say that you are scum I just find it suspect why I have to tell you why I town read him even though I don't want to yet. There is no reason not to give your reasoning for a Town-read. I want to know why you think Shutters is Town and I will not accept "I'll tell you later" as an answer. In this post the mindset transforms from confusion into a tryhard sr imo. Hmm... I'm a bit confused... What was the point/conclusion of this post? That he noticed my pressure of being so wishy-washy and switched to tryhard (sr?) mode? And does this make him scummy or what? How does it relate to his first post? Maybe it's not "entirely bad", but still the least towny way to start the game from what I've seen. I guess it's not like it's a scumclaim or anything like that  It's a soft scumread, the point of the post being. I tried to show the way i went thinking about the post, so someone trying to interpret it the same way can see if it makes sense to him aswell. Hm. Ok. But I'm still a bit confused. How did he go from the first post (neutralish?) to somewhat scummy... Because his attitude changed to tryhard afterwards? I mean Show nested quote +
It's not technically a role claim, but it's certainly something unnecessary to say. Why would your first sentence be the equivalent of "I'm not a Mafia."? While it's nothing definite, it seems rather odd to me.
This at first feels neutral territory thing, questioning the entry, posing out something unnecessary from it however it is actually nothing at all. The entire thing is purely nai with everyone being capable of saying all sorts of stupid stuff like "hey 1st post tr me plx ty xoxo" at beginning of the game and we just laugh it off. How he went about making that whole post was very triggering for me, then i saw the post about Lunatic and I'm like "ok this guys is literally trying to find absurd reasons to sr ppl".
But you yourself disliked Lunaticmans townread of Stutters, no? Maybe it is too weak for a sr, but all i see DanelerH doing is to look further into that, which is a good thing imo.
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On September 25 2016 06:04 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2016 05:58 ptmc wrote:On September 25 2016 05:03 Xatalos wrote:On September 25 2016 04:56 ptmc wrote:
I still cannot follow Lunaticmans reasoning on Stutters at all. I don't even see how it is discussing blue roles, since any checks would be done in the upcoming night phase?
So i kind of agree with Rels and Xatalos in that regard, however fail to see why Xatalos dislikes DanelerH?
What is your opinion of him, Skynx? Mainly his first post (piling on to throw more weak suspicion against a very easy target without committing either way) and lack of anything that I've liked after that either. For the time being at least. And I dislike discussing potential blue roles especially on D1, which is why I said that Lunatic shouldn't say whatever he was going to say about his own blue theories. Well, maybe he should if Stutters was going to get lynched or something, but not really at this point in time. I still have a hard time following why discussing potential blue roles D1 is bad. Or, to put it differently, I don't see how you even can discuss blue roles day 1. Since they haven't done/seen anything yet, how would they act different than a VT? Except maybe stay a bit out of the spotlight so that mafia lynch a VT. But that would be almost the opposite of what Lunaticman did: giving a sure town read, that then even increases to a sure town power role read? I've never been able to notice who have powers or not very well, but some players seem to have the gift of immediately noticing if someone is a blue. I've seen this happen quite a few times now. If we assume that Lunatic has noticed something and is town, it's pretty much purely harmful to elaborate on that in the thread (it should be easy to understand - just helping out the scumteam for free). If he's scum, well, it doesn't really matter since they would know everything Lunatic knows. No matter what, I don't see real benefits in talking about the topic?
Okay, if we live of the assumption that Lunatic did see Stutters as such a clear town (power role) read as a town, why would he then even proclaim that? As you said, there are no real benefits to talking about it in the topic. And his completely baseless townread on Stutters had to be questioned imo.
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