• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:32
CET 09:32
KST 17:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League64Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Recap] 0-6 Defeat for Mong's Team Bot on ladder Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away.
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0 2v2v2v2 Tournament
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8366 users

Bavarian Nightkills - Page 24

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 22 23 24 25 26 54 Next
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 06 2016 18:13 GMT
#461
On July 07 2016 03:12 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:42 Vivax wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:31 Palmar wrote:
On July 07 2016 01:30 Koshi wrote:
then I am missing your point. What was the point of your initial post?

What do you bother talking to mafia

Also classic mafia reads 101 state that the guy who made an insane tinfoil read is always town

Also he is probably town

Vivas on he other hand is so scummy i might lynch him over sl


That wasn't an insane tinfoil read. It was just tinfoil, without read, without outcome.

You're 100% mafia

I'm switching my vote

Don't care what town does. Not in the mood to herd sheep. All I know is vivax 100% mafia


Good work sheeping me, I now see what you mean by damdred being the second best player.

I was the best you were talking about.
I come in for the scraps
Skynx
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Turkey7150 Posts
July 06 2016 18:14 GMT
#462
Anyway haze or sl sound like right lynch to me for today. Why people are voting VA?
RB is shady and DCW reminds me of my mafia self in newbie XXII, not enough for D1 lynch tho.
"When seagulls follow the troller, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea. Thank you very much" - King Cantona | STX 4 eva
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:14 GMT
#463
On July 07 2016 02:43 DCWasabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:20 Koshi wrote:
On July 07 2016 01:47 DCWasabi wrote:
On July 06 2016 18:32 Race Bannon wrote:
On July 06 2016 14:12 DCWasabi wrote:
##vote prplhz

I am reading prplhz as scum. Kush says that prplhz doesn't have low activity this game, but if you look at his posts, they aren't too useful.

Furthermore, the following post is suspicious:
"I'm having a hard time convincing myself that Koshi is serious, but it seems like he is? I don't know I think sometimes there is a rule that we don't discuss modkills/bans/whatever and I think that's a good idea because it doesn't do anything for us.

I mean, lets not discuss if he should be modkilled or if Palmar went too far when he quoted a post and wrote "hahahahaha" (forgot how many "ha"s). Half the Sky and LightningStrike can handle that.

Seems townie that he gets so mad tho?"


If you don't want to discuss modkills and bans and want to leave the hosting to the hosts, then why are you bringing this up?
Especially after the topic was several pages back and pretty much dropped already...
This kind of post could be intended to induce the town into more spamming/fighting/shit-talking and less actual mafia-hunting.
Seems unnecessarily distracting.

Earlier he was kind of town-reading Koshi, but in a way that makes your head asplode.
"Why would someone (KOoshi), as mafia, think it's a good idea to be nicer than he usually is? As mafia, you usually try to act like you usually do, and Koshi usually doesn't try to be nice (and he knows this)?"

In fact, almost all of his posts are related to Koshi, even though I haven't seen much in the way of people suggesting that Koshi is scum.
Is he actually just obsessed with Koshi for some reason, or perhaps trying to associate himself with a strong town player that most people are town-reading (who he KNOWS is town)?

Who do you think are unlikely to be scum together?


Guys, activity is more than just number of posts and number of words right?
It also matters if your posts actually mean something.

On to the question from RB...

prplhz and Koshi are unlikely to be scum together

I am town-reading Damdred, Vivax, Skynx, Shapelog, Palmar?(beyond my reading skills lol).
Also, I suspect that Koshi is town even though he wants to lynch me for low activity, he is using #logic.

prplhz, RaceBannon, kush seem most scummy to me

Especially prplhz/kush mafia combo. Seems like they want to lynch me and sway the vote without contributing much.
Since I know that I am town, the fact that they both want to lynch me obviously makes me suspicious.
Hopefully it is not just because I have drawn attention to both of them at points, if they think that my logic is bad, then they should attack my logic and not attack me.


Why are you not commenting on sicklucker? He has been talked about maybe the most by everybody.


I did not comment on sicklucker (or the others that I did not mention) because I don't have a strong feeling either way for him.

Do you really expect me to have a solid read on everyone? Most participants haven't given nearly as many reads.
I am not going to make a random guess on him... don't see how that would really help the town.


fair. I was just wondering.
I had a good night of sleep.
DCWasabi
Profile Joined December 2010
United States368 Posts
July 06 2016 18:14 GMT
#464
On July 07 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Reads so far:


Heineken Town: Shape, Koshi, Palmar, Damdred
Stella Artosis Town: Vivax, VE, kush

Null: VA, DCW
Orange Juice Maf: SL, haze, RB
Tomato Soup Maf:


How am I null if you have almost the exact same reads as me?

Do you think that I am playing a hella deep game or something, lol?
"Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana." -Groucho Marx
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 06 2016 18:17 GMT
#465
On July 07 2016 03:13 VayneAuthority wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 03:12 Palmar wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:42 Vivax wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:31 Palmar wrote:
On July 07 2016 01:30 Koshi wrote:
then I am missing your point. What was the point of your initial post?

What do you bother talking to mafia

Also classic mafia reads 101 state that the guy who made an insane tinfoil read is always town

Also he is probably town

Vivas on he other hand is so scummy i might lynch him over sl


That wasn't an insane tinfoil read. It was just tinfoil, without read, without outcome.

You're 100% mafia

I'm switching my vote

Don't care what town does. Not in the mood to herd sheep. All I know is vivax 100% mafia


Good work sheeping me, I now see what you mean by damdred being the second best player.

I was the best you were talking about.

Of course I thought it was obvious and I didn't need to clarify.

Sheep VA to greatness
Computer says mafia
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 06 2016 18:18 GMT
#466
On July 07 2016 02:59 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:57 prplhz wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:51 Vivax wrote:
Nobody still seems to have realized that SL has never been trolling about him being mafia, but Palmar claimed he did.

Even Koshi called it something along of "Palmar pointing out a scumslip".

What SL did was talking about him-as mafia-in an earlier game.

The scumslip Koshi talked about was sicklucker saying "He should appear town to you" instead of "He should appear town to us" or something like that.

I don't buy it but Koshi made a big deal out of it.


What's your take on VA? Currently the guys voting him are the only ones I'm comfy being on a wagon with.

Not really anything. Him and sicklucker, I don't have much opinion about.

Why are you more comfortable with VisceraEyes and sicklucker over Koshi and Palmar?
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22424 Posts
July 06 2016 18:20 GMT
#467
On July 07 2016 03:18 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:59 Vivax wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:57 prplhz wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:51 Vivax wrote:
Nobody still seems to have realized that SL has never been trolling about him being mafia, but Palmar claimed he did.

Even Koshi called it something along of "Palmar pointing out a scumslip".

What SL did was talking about him-as mafia-in an earlier game.

The scumslip Koshi talked about was sicklucker saying "He should appear town to you" instead of "He should appear town to us" or something like that.

I don't buy it but Koshi made a big deal out of it.


What's your take on VA? Currently the guys voting him are the only ones I'm comfy being on a wagon with.

Not really anything. Him and sicklucker, I don't have much opinion about.

Why are you more comfortable with VisceraEyes and sicklucker over Koshi and Palmar?


Didn't see the surefire town Koshi behaviour, but I saw likely SL town behaviour.
And Palmar don't even get me started on Palmar he should be vigged.

I can't read VE for shit but if I had to choose my leader this game it would be VE, not Palmar. Less destructive.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:24 GMT
#468
On July 07 2016 02:57 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:51 Vivax wrote:
Nobody still seems to have realized that SL has never been trolling about him being mafia, but Palmar claimed he did.

Even Koshi called it something along of "Palmar pointing out a scumslip".

What SL did was talking about him-as mafia-in an earlier game.

The scumslip Koshi talked about was sicklucker saying "He should appear town to you" instead of "He should appear town to us" or something like that.

I don't buy it but Koshi made a big deal out of it.

this is a blatant lie. I didn't make a big deal out of it.

##unvote
##vote prplhz
I had a good night of sleep.
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 06 2016 18:24 GMT
#469
On July 07 2016 03:24 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 02:57 prplhz wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:51 Vivax wrote:
Nobody still seems to have realized that SL has never been trolling about him being mafia, but Palmar claimed he did.

Even Koshi called it something along of "Palmar pointing out a scumslip".

What SL did was talking about him-as mafia-in an earlier game.

The scumslip Koshi talked about was sicklucker saying "He should appear town to you" instead of "He should appear town to us" or something like that.

I don't buy it but Koshi made a big deal out of it.

this is a blatant lie. I didn't make a big deal out of it.

##unvote
##vote prplhz

hahahhaahaha
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
prplhz
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Denmark8045 Posts
July 06 2016 18:29 GMT
#470
On July 06 2016 03:47 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 02:01 sicklucker wrote:
like me and palmar knew you were right obv and came up with a plan to actively descredit you that game (see scum qt). No we didnt want you to get modkilled but apparently thats what sent you over the edge. For all you know palmrs mafia doing the same thing.

Grow some skin

Wonder why he didn't type

"for all we know"


maybe it is nothing.


On July 06 2016 19:21 Koshi wrote:
if sl is mafia he spewed me town so hard. lol.
It looked so much as a slip anyway. kinda hilarious.


On July 06 2016 21:17 Koshi wrote:
Sicklucker did 4 things that are more likely to come from scum in the 20ish posts he made. It is almost too scummy to be scum.

1) didn't read concentrated enough and made a mistake, jumped on a person with false reasoning, only to find out later when he reread and then downplays it on an odd trying to be funny way. (happens more to mafia than town. true fact)

2) possible scumslip. As he said "Palmar could have been mafia for all you know." Really strange that he didn't write "for all that we know" (+he didn't think for a second I was faking rage)

3) underplaying own skillset in finding mafia to get away from pressure. Or explain pressure.

4) "I might be back before deadline if it suits my agenda." (favorite mafia sentence, almost all mafia make this sentence in some sort of form. Deadline is as always and I don't remember sl as somebody who misses deadlines.)

----

and that are just the things that I think mafia sicklucker does more likely than town sicklucker.


on the other hand...

Is sicklucker so obvious at being mafia?

but


he is for sure not town because he had that 1 townie post and his general play "is not scummy" as you want to make it.


You mentioned it in three (3) posts even though it's absolutely nothing.

"big deal" in the sense that you're making much more out of it than you should, not in the sense that everything you do revolve around it.

Anyway, pretty good case you've got there. That was a blatant intentional lie about a crucial detail of the game, so hey, what can I do?
http://i.imgur.com/M7t7egx.png
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:31 GMT
#471
On July 07 2016 03:14 DCWasabi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Reads so far:


Heineken Town: Shape, Koshi, Palmar, Damdred
Stella Artosis Town: Vivax, VE, kush

Null: VA, DCW
Orange Juice Maf: SL, haze, RB
Tomato Soup Maf:


How am I null if you have almost the exact same reads as me?

Do you think that I am playing a hella deep game or something, lol?

This is an extremely townie post.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:32 GMT
#472
On July 07 2016 03:29 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 03:47 Koshi wrote:
On July 06 2016 02:01 sicklucker wrote:
like me and palmar knew you were right obv and came up with a plan to actively descredit you that game (see scum qt). No we didnt want you to get modkilled but apparently thats what sent you over the edge. For all you know palmrs mafia doing the same thing.

Grow some skin

Wonder why he didn't type

"for all we know"


maybe it is nothing.


Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 19:21 Koshi wrote:
if sl is mafia he spewed me town so hard. lol.
It looked so much as a slip anyway. kinda hilarious.


Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 21:17 Koshi wrote:
Sicklucker did 4 things that are more likely to come from scum in the 20ish posts he made. It is almost too scummy to be scum.

1) didn't read concentrated enough and made a mistake, jumped on a person with false reasoning, only to find out later when he reread and then downplays it on an odd trying to be funny way. (happens more to mafia than town. true fact)

2) possible scumslip. As he said "Palmar could have been mafia for all you know." Really strange that he didn't write "for all that we know" (+he didn't think for a second I was faking rage)

3) underplaying own skillset in finding mafia to get away from pressure. Or explain pressure.

4) "I might be back before deadline if it suits my agenda." (favorite mafia sentence, almost all mafia make this sentence in some sort of form. Deadline is as always and I don't remember sl as somebody who misses deadlines.)

----

and that are just the things that I think mafia sicklucker does more likely than town sicklucker.


on the other hand...

Is sicklucker so obvious at being mafia?

but


he is for sure not town because he had that 1 townie post and his general play "is not scummy" as you want to make it.


You mentioned it in three (3) posts even though it's absolutely nothing.

"big deal" in the sense that you're making much more out of it than you should, not in the sense that everything you do revolve around it.

Anyway, pretty good case you've got there. That was a blatant intentional lie about a crucial detail of the game, so hey, what can I do?

I didn't make a big deal out of it. The end. I don't care. My vote sticks on you. sicklucker getting defended too much anyway.
I had a good night of sleep.
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 06 2016 18:32 GMT
#473
On July 07 2016 03:24 prplhz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 03:24 Koshi wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:57 prplhz wrote:
On July 07 2016 02:51 Vivax wrote:
Nobody still seems to have realized that SL has never been trolling about him being mafia, but Palmar claimed he did.

Even Koshi called it something along of "Palmar pointing out a scumslip".

What SL did was talking about him-as mafia-in an earlier game.

The scumslip Koshi talked about was sicklucker saying "He should appear town to you" instead of "He should appear town to us" or something like that.

I don't buy it but Koshi made a big deal out of it.

this is a blatant lie. I didn't make a big deal out of it.

##unvote
##vote prplhz

hahahhaahaha

Careful, koshi don't like them hahas
Computer says mafia
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
22424 Posts
July 06 2016 18:34 GMT
#474
huh who's defending SL?I'm currently the only one afaik
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 06 2016 18:34 GMT
#475
On July 07 2016 03:31 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 03:14 DCWasabi wrote:
On July 07 2016 03:11 Skynx wrote:
Reads so far:


Heineken Town: Shape, Koshi, Palmar, Damdred
Stella Artosis Town: Vivax, VE, kush

Null: VA, DCW
Orange Juice Maf: SL, haze, RB
Tomato Soup Maf:


How am I null if you have almost the exact same reads as me?

Do you think that I am playing a hella deep game or something, lol?

This is an extremely townie post.

Pls its at best somewhat townie. You just get a hardon from him using the phrase "hella deep"
Computer says mafia
Shapelog
Profile Joined November 2015
United States5188 Posts
July 06 2016 18:34 GMT
#476
I am here, I have a question.

Did Skynx ever looked at anyone elses meta?
"Subsequently clicking post is like launching a doomsday's worth of nukes' equivalent in dopamine." -RB
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:34 GMT
#477
so funny palmar so funny.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 06 2016 18:34 GMT
#478
On July 07 2016 03:34 Shapelog wrote:
I am here, I have a question.

Did Skynx ever looked at anyone elses meta?

yes. Palmar.
I had a good night of sleep.
Shapelog
Profile Joined November 2015
United States5188 Posts
July 06 2016 18:37 GMT
#479
On July 07 2016 03:34 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 03:34 Shapelog wrote:
I am here, I have a question.

Did Skynx ever looked at anyone elses meta?

yes. Palmar.

So he only looked at Palmar's, yet, the reasoning he was looking at the meta was to get reads/info on everyone else right?

Why did he stop? I mean, it might of been my and someone elses post about it, yet, he was kinda against it in the way that he state he had nothing else to do,
"Subsequently clicking post is like launching a doomsday's worth of nukes' equivalent in dopamine." -RB
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
July 06 2016 18:37 GMT
#480
On July 07 2016 03:34 Koshi wrote:
so funny palmar so funny.

Ikr
Computer says mafia
Prev 1 22 23 24 25 26 54 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 2743
firebathero 748
Mind 387
Larva 298
Hyuk 202
Leta 182
Killer 116
Barracks 109
Stork 102
Mong 99
[ Show more ]
Shinee 64
scan(afreeca) 51
ToSsGirL 49
Bale 36
Movie 33
Free 32
Shine 29
NaDa 29
ZergMaN 20
yabsab 15
zelot 10
soO 6
Counter-Strike
Sick58
Other Games
summit1g10557
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL14298
Other Games
gamesdonequick1132
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 16
[ Show 8 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
FEL
1h 29m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1h 29m
Replay Cast
14h 29m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 3h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
GSL
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.