[W][M] Newbie Mafia XXI

On May 23 2016 17:03 Rels wrote:
Welcome (=

For a mini, between 500 and 1500 depending on the spamminess of the player list.

On May 23 2016 17:03 Rels wrote:

Why would one of you get banned from the site ? p: Should it ever happen, I think you usually get banned by account name and not via IP unless there is a reason to IP ban you so it shouldn't matter.

On May 23 2016 17:34 Rels wrote:
What is your homesite ?

On May 23 2016 21:10 MoosyDoosy wrote:

probably 2000 posts what with me here o/

jkjk I'll try to keep the spamminess down.

On May 23 2016 21:39 MoosyDoosy wrote:

ayeeE welcome. :D

On May 23 2016 21:48 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:
whats personality cafe?

On May 23 2016 22:35 Rels wrote:

You can't!
I mean, you can open multiple tabs then copy the code into one single post, but there is no easy way to do it.

On May 24 2016 00:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

We do have "filter" button though under every post which allows you to view said player's posts in the game in a threaded mode. That's way superior to any ISO-system on any other site i have ever seen.

I think we don't have multiquotes since TL wasn't developed for playing mafia. I personally don't even like multiquotes since it makes posts harder to read and often people intentionally/unintentionally take the quotes out of context making them basically useless. Ofc that's just a preference thing in the end. I think another way is to copy the links for the posts and make a post where you give your analysis of said posts, then people can themselves follow the links and see if they agree with you or not. Imo it makes your post easier to read and follow and regardless if you have quoted the post you are referring to, people should anyways ALWAYS check the post in context. Everything can be scummy or not depending on the context.

On May 24 2016 00:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have never played on Mafiascum because i dislike the boringness of a week long dayphases. I have seen/visited the site though. It prolly has more "features" that TL does, not gonna argue about that. Well i actually looked at their filter system and i don't really understand what's superior to TL's in that.. I find it harder to use than having a filter button in every post.

On the appearance I myself find this design best to my eyes, some places (including Mafiascum) hurt my eyes after reading for some time, idk if it's the contrast of bg/text or white text or what... But that is 100% a preference thing and most places allow changing the UI anyways. I also never have avatars showing on any site (or signatures, if they allow anything but text), they are distracting.

On May 24 2016 01:46 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:

..There's another starcraft site that does mafia?? We should merge.

On May 24 2016 02:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yeah it is. We hardly ever have Instant majority lynch though, almost all the games are with a fixed deadline time and plurality (or deadline majority) lynch.

On May 24 2016 02:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah there are arguments to made for all of those and it's again a preference thing. IML is probably the "worst" in a sense that people can make less arguments about the votes than in other methods.

On May 26 2016 03:59 Half the Sky wrote:


FYI requests are cool and esp if you have a specific aim, but considering rayn is a listed town coach if you roll scum, you will get whoever the scum coach is. (That said, he is a good coach otherwise in spite of what he says about his English language ability xD.)

Filter debates aside I've debated trying out mafiascum because of my work schedule (48h cycles are not sustainable for me anymore, if a random business trip pops up, I'm canned) - are all games an entire week for a dayphase or can they vary between 4-7 days?

I know replacements are oftentimes because the game just goes quite long and if you have a 4-day game where town loses in m13 after 4 MLs, that equates to games taking a month long assuming 6-7 day long dayphases.

I'd say the key things here are the 48h dayphases (and 24h nights), plurality lynch (most people here hate majority, I can handle deadline majority, all it means is that towns need to work together better - but IML is a joke because of timezones most of the time), forum layout and to some extent the mechanics.

As for community, most people here are civil. Some aren't and thankfully they are dealt with accordingly/debated for punishment post-game. With respect to gameplay, I'd say MOST newbie games are slower paced, but non-newbies, depending on the signups can be spammy. Some players post way more than others and in certain threads, it has been mentioned that the 48h cycles have a lot to do with this attribute given the types of players this type of cycle would draw.

Also TL in general is first and foremost a gaming community, so many people here will also game with each other outside of forum mafia, including members "retired" from TL mafia. I play a lot of Dota 2 and a few things else with others, but others here play overwatch, sc2, league, hearthstone and a host of other games on the TL discord channel.

On June 02 2016 10:00 Tumblewood wrote:
So excited... I've played with only four of these people before

On June 04 2016 04:00 Half the Sky wrote:


Yes. The host will prompt when to start and stop posting throughout the game in this thread.

You CAN vote in this thread, for the sake of clarity for other players, but there is a voting thread, so you must vote there, this is so that hosts don't accidentally miss votes - it will matter in tiebreakers.

edit for blkcoffee - looks like Mage accounted for the time between role distribution and silence to me.

On June 04 2016 05:19 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:
PREGAME READS
3) QuickTwist - forum mafia world traveler. Super pro, but new to this site.

On June 04 2016 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:

BOI I GOT THIS


lmaoo this is actually pretty tru


that won't happen w/ this player list. The vets will be too busy squabbling over each other about how someone used emoticons or something while Mafia will get away. :D Basically: competition =/= good at game. It just means we shit on each other a lot more.


I'd like to hard claim Mafia mmmmmmmmm


veteran or mafia


veteran or mafia or mafia


veteran or mafia or mafia or mafia

On June 04 2016 08:23 Jealous wrote:

That's a convenient strategy, but why would a newcomer to TL Mafia whom I imagine you have no prior experience with respond in the same manner besides collusion?

On June 04 2016 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:
So guys, what are your thoughts on CRISPR technology? I did a presentation on it recently and it's a tool to edit genes/DNA. Just interested in your thoughts.

If we refine our knowledge of CRISPR we can basically cure genetic diseases and make all mosquitoes male so they don't bite humans and spread shit like malaria, Zika, etc. Common genetic diseases include Tay-Sachs Disease, Down Syndrome, forms of cancer, Parkinson's Disease, etc. So we can cure millions of lives.

On the other hand, we can change the cosmetic appearances of our children at will like height, eye color, hair color. Not to mention increase physical capabilities. So supersoldiers aren't far off. The problem I have with this is that people will try to fit a social stereotype of an attractive appearance which is harmful for people's conceptions of themselves. Not to mention it creates a division between the rich and poor since editing embryos requires in vitro fertilization which is an expensive process. Also, there's the issue of personhood with embryos. Should we be allowed to edit embryos? Are they "people" yet at an embryonic stage or until they're born and develop thought? What about as a fetus when their brain starts developing or they start feeling pain? All questions to think about.

So what are your thoughts? Pro-CRISPR or anti-CRISPR? :3

On June 04 2016 08:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Not sure what you mean here.

On June 04 2016 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Jealous which between myself and quicky is more suspicious?

On June 04 2016 08:35 Superbia wrote:


Am I interpreting jealous/collusion wrong?

On June 04 2016 08:39 Superbia wrote:


This confuses me. Why?

On June 04 2016 08:41 emperorchampion wrote:


proof?

On June 04 2016 08:41 Superbia wrote:


I want to know your thought process. What makes you reach this crossroad?

On June 04 2016 08:44 Superbia wrote:


Really? So why would this make me bad scum or a really good town player?

On June 04 2016 08:48 emperorchampion wrote:


I'm afraid I don't follow, how mod killed? Just want to lynch if they are followers of Cesar >

On June 04 2016 08:49 Superbia wrote:


Does this have more substance than your townreads?

On June 04 2016 08:52 Superbia wrote:
Quicky, do your townreads have any substance?

On June 04 2016 08:52 Jealous wrote:

There are two ways, and the other is by the noose.

On June 04 2016 08:53 blkcoffee wrote:


If it's alright with you I'm not going to read any of those games.

I'm curious what you think of quick town reading you so early and his subsequent town reads.

For quicktwist. Can you explain how you came to a serious vote on super. What changed?

On June 04 2016 09:00 Tumblewood wrote:

have you ever seen the mafiauniverse (that's the website hosting the mafia championship) turbo games? the games have 18 minute day phases and 6 minute night phases and everyone who makes reads makes them off of ten posts or less for the first couple of days and have a mostly guesswork basis. perhaps he comes from a site where reads are made similarly?

On June 04 2016 09:08 Superbia wrote:
Perhaps. What about your other town reads?

On June 04 2016 09:12 emperorchampion wrote:


See above lol was looking through filter


Also, what is the best way to keep up with these games? Just sub threads + filters?

On June 04 2016 09:14 blkcoffee wrote:


This seems rather too in-depth this early on. I think if quicktwist gave an explanation For the town read we could analyse it and see how it holds up.

On June 04 2016 09:22 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:
guys i think i found the mafia.

4)sqrtofneg1
1) beentheredonethat
6) FecalFeast
7)Ticktock

##vote sqrtofneg1

btw is TT's filter link in the op is broken

On June 04 2016 09:24 Tictock wrote:


Wow, doesn't even have a real pre-game read on me... Has to reference Tumble just to have some content.

Clearly mafia.

##Vote nnn_shwagmountains

On June 04 2016 09:27 Jealous wrote:

One of the advantages or disadvantages of being a non-native speaker is that I've learned many words that are more accurate to my intention but are unwieldy for native speakers. Another contributing factor is that when my fingers are on the keyboard, I enter some parallel mindset of "must make this Ivy League - level" because of my job.

As a mafia in that game, after re-reading my own posts, I've come to the conclusion that I fucked up and tried to be too vehement in my defense and my counter-arguments were all stretches of the imagination. It was the text translation of desperation once I became suspected.

On June 04 2016 09:29 Jealous wrote:

Another dodgy response here. Leaning scum intensifies.

On June 04 2016 09:33 Jealous wrote:

Instead of substantiating your claims you post image macros that effectively close the topic for further analysis and discussion, something that would be key for scum to do in order to protect themselves from further inspection.

On June 04 2016 09:39 Jealous wrote:

Knowing nothing about you or your play style and only judging from the content that you present, it's logical to use Ockham's razor and go with the most obvious explanation. You continue to dodge post after post, question after question, and only cast doubt upon the analysis of others by trying to debase them without any substance whatsoever.

On June 04 2016 09:41 Tumblewood wrote:
ah goddammit I'm going after the low-hanging fruit
I'll be back when kush or someone is in the thread so I can be productive

On June 04 2016 09:44 Jealous wrote:

Or maybe you can answer some questions and show your play style through analysis and not through mindless macros and unsubstantiated claims.

On June 04 2016 08:25 Jealous wrote:

My expectations were mixed in that I simultaneously did not want to be important because I would then be under a lot of pressure to perform my duties up to a certain standard, but I also did want to have some sway in the outcome of the game beyond just words and analysis. I am satisfied with my role.

How about you?

On June 04 2016 09:54 Jealous wrote:

May I ask for a textual response to this or am I just begging for another meme?

On June 04 2016 09:04 Tumblewood wrote:

have you heard of "WIFOM"? it stands for "wine in front of me", in reference to some scene from The Princess Bride. this is what it means and WIFOM is about the most I'd say about superbia's early-early-early-D1 play.

On June 04 2016 10:11 Jealous wrote:

I fail to see the connection between your reasoning and the question; what did you +1 on?

On June 04 2016 08:44 Skynx wrote:
So, Incognito guide tells me town likes clarity and mafia likes contentless posts.
Jealous sounds towny to me. QT also keep things clean.
Super n moosy are kinda chatting shit so I assume we can read more as game progresses.
Super is most scummy so far.

On June 04 2016 10:23 Jealous wrote:

Er, I think you may want to re-look at the post sequence. I believe you have the name to message relationship mixed up.

On June 04 2016 09:02 blkcoffee wrote:


Do you think that town should try to look townie and eliminate themselves from the lynch pool.

On June 04 2016 10:29 Superbia wrote:
Quicktwist how would you rate me as a player out of 10?

On June 04 2016 10:47 Tumblewood wrote:

what
but why
it's in town's best interest to look townie (except to dodge nightkills) so town doesn't waste a lynch on them

On June 04 2016 10:54 Tumblewood wrote:

finding scum is just one of the three pillars of being townie
1) find scum
2) establish your towniness
3) form a town circle with other townies

On June 04 2016 11:08 Jealous wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/509798-newbie-student-mafia-xxi-voting-thread#12

??

On June 04 2016 11:15 Jealous wrote:

You say one thing but do another, despite the fact that finding the discrepancy is stupidly easy. Either you're scum or just... How can I put this nicely... A very individualistic and selfish townie. Either way, I think the game would be better off without you.

On June 04 2016 11:27 Tumblewood wrote:
wait what
qt why did you vote ("vote") me in this thread and then vote sqrt in the voting thread? what do you mean by that?

On June 04 2016 11:28 Jealous wrote:

You have to remember that he is not new to Mafia, just new to TL Mafia. That being said, knowing that he is an experienced player only throws more confusion into the mix when considering his posts and actions. Confusion is not good for a town win, in my opinion.


This makes no sense.

On June 04 2016 11:28 Jealous wrote:

You have to remember that he is not new to Mafia, just new to TL Mafia. That being said, knowing that he is an experienced player only throws more confusion into the mix when considering his posts and actions. Confusion is not good for a town win, in my opinion.


This makes no sense.

On June 04 2016 11:31 Tumblewood wrote:

his scumreads are founded in a mountain of evidence, but that evidence does not make anyone scum. I don't see how you can refute his reads as misled but then call them good and townie all of a sudden.
townread suspended

On June 04 2016 11:36 Jealous wrote:

The only outside theory I have, if I may, is again collusion.

He voted for one player. He then changes his vote to another player, while possibly trying to slip by the fact that he actually voted for yet another player, one that only has any votes from kushmountain, a player whose defense for the lack of activity and analysis in comparison to his previous posting style was simply "I was at work so I had more free time," which should be bullshit to begin with.

As I see it, there are two interpretations here:

1. QuickTwist is a free radical, a wildcard, and for that reason he is dangerous to the town. He does not respond to questioning with any substance, makes unsubstantiated claims, and he intentionally misleads the other town members. Maybe he just doesn't care. Regardless of the underlying cause, he should be lynched because even a townie of his character is detrimental to the town simply because of the chaos he propagates.

2. QuickTwist is Mafia, and potentially so is kushmountain. Being new to TL Mafia, QuickTwist acted rashly and had to backtrack after some further coordination with the veteran player. This means he is scum, and is detrimental to the town, and should be lynched.

I fail to see any other alternative.

On June 04 2016 11:45 Tumblewood wrote:

does this post mean something or no?

On June 04 2016 11:48 Jealous wrote:

Your summary of my summary is not accurate. A more accurate summary would be "QuickTwist acts irrationally, therefore is a detriment to the town, regardless of his actual affiliation." Activity is not a metric here, because the majority of his activity as far as I can tell has been vague, full of memes, and as I've said countless times, unsubstantiated. The few posts of his which do have some sort of value I think I could count on one hand. A scum player would follow this posting pattern - inconclusive, divisive, and substance-less posts that detract from any actual analysis. You've also ignored the fact that his vote does not reflect anything he has said in the thread, and that sqrtofneg1 has done nothing to gain the amount of suspicion necessary for two people to vote for him. Hence, I suspect collusion and that QuickTwist and possibly kushmountain are scum, but in the end I am only certain that I don't think QuickTwist will actually benefit the town whether he is scum or not, so I voted for him.

On June 04 2016 11:53 Jealous wrote:

My initial statement of collusion was to imply that it appeared like two scum are engaging in seemingly playful banter and thus eliminate the chance of either of them being called out for inactivity, while not-so-subtly hinting at each other being townies and thus not the scum that they very well may be. "Buddying" could be what QuickTwist was doing after this in regards to myself and other posters, by calling townies whom he well knows are townies but with no evidence in order to give them a window of acceptance that could potentially cause them to trust him and support him.

On June 04 2016 11:55 Jealous wrote:
Also, this playful banter would serve to dilute their posting summaries, inflate the page and post count, and add space between incriminating posts. Certainly one way to approach the accountability issue in a medium such as an online forum.

On June 04 2016 12:00 Jealous wrote:

A townie acting in a manner such as you have, which is: "inconclusive, divisive, and substance-less posts that detract from any actual analysis" and not answering direct questions which would be rather innocuous if you were not scum or answering in a misleading fashion means that through your play you have demonstrated that you would serve no value to the town whether you are scum or not. Even if you have a PR and it is valuable to the town, your posting game is detrimental to the point where I'd rather take the chance that you are in fact scum and that your role is not in fact in important. The chances of you being scum are higher than the chances of you being valuable, and the chances of you being valuable in text form, judging by the past 10 pages or so, are low as well. Therefore, you are the most valid candidate for lynching in my view and I have yet to see you say anything that would prove me wrong.

On June 04 2016 12:00 Jealous wrote:

This game has no clues so all claims are based on conjecture.

On June 04 2016 12:04 Jealous wrote:

When the content you provide largely revolves around yourself, have you contributed to anything but the criticism of your actions and thus your own demise? Compare this to the content of my posts, which is questioning people about their actions and intentions. Providing content to talk about is useless if you are only generating hot air. Volume does not imply quality.

On June 04 2016 12:24 Jealous wrote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/508622-newbie-mafia-xxi#3

Chance of you being scum, excluding myself from the equation because I know that I am not scum = 3/12 = 1/4

Chance of you being blue = 2/12 = 1/6

Chance of you being a truly valuable PR blue like the doc, cop, or vigilante = 3/4

Chance of you being useful to the town without considering your textual input = 1/6 * 3/4 = 3/24 = 1/8

Therefore the chances of you being scum as opposed to a valuable blue are 2:1.

This does not include my admittedly subjective but still substantiated claim that your value as a talking head in this game so far is low, so I won't go into that because it is impossible to quantify but it certainly is possible for me to say is my opinion. I could do a post-by-post analysis of your history in this thread and determine how many of your posts were a waste of time and space and how many actually contributed something, but I've already read all of them once and don't have the desire to do so again just to make a fraction in this post for your amusement.

In response to your latter statement, if that's how you want to paraphrase it then that's up to you, but without official clues from the OP I don't see how you could have expected anything different than what we have now.


"Known" townie? Please, don't throw that term around casually as if anything has been confirmed about you through a cop or otherwise. It's gotten me to the place where I've singled out the most suspicious player in my eyes and allowed me to cast a vote, pending further investigation and activity from others. This is not a policy kill, unless you are in fact townie are not playing to win as is stated in the rules in the OP, which I certainly do not think you are so far.

On June 04 2016 12:29 Jealous wrote:
Another thing I forgot to add into my mathematical analysis is the fact that if you flip red, I would have a very strong case against kushmountain and sqrtofneg1 would be cleared of suspicion, meaning we would have 1 confirmed townie and 1 strongly suspected scum for Day 2. Seems like a worthwhile chance.

On June 04 2016 12:51 Jealous wrote:

Carry over? Not simplify? I didn't simplify anything nor did I make up any rules. What?

My math is legit, and yes I am working off of the knowledge that I myself am not scum. You are correct in saying that this math applies to anyone currently in the game, which is exactly why you are a worthwhile vote because unlike others your posting habits are inconsistent and your voting is intentionally misleading. If on Day 1 all we are doing is taking a stab in the dark, I'd rather face towards the one light source I do see. As you said and I said before you, I cannot quantify content because it is subjective. However, I can make a damn good case if need be. There may be optimal play here, but there is certainly sub-par play.

I don't think anyone "knows my meta" because I haven't played mafia in 8 years, so unless someone does a very thorough investigation of my posts when I was 18 years old and finds some parallels that I would still consequently dismiss as pure imagination, I am going to say that your opinions on my alignment are moot, especially given that you contradict yourself within 2 posts.

On June 04 2016 08:35 QuickTwist wrote:


What is the point to this question?

On June 04 2016 08:48 Tumblewood wrote:

50/50 like for reading and applying Incognito's guide / dislike for maybe (?) hiding behind Incognito's guide instead of speaking for yourself
also Incognito's guide is pretty old and now there are a lot of players that spam as both alignments

On June 04 2016 09:28 Jealous wrote:

Or seeding disinformation and confusion.

On June 04 2016 15:30 Tictock wrote:
Pfft, I think I can stop reading @ pg 20 kus I already solved this.

Gunna go play a little more overwatch and see if anyone is around a bit later, but I prob picked a bad time to be active.

Not spoiling my reads till tomorrow.

On June 04 2016 15:31 Jealous wrote:
Also, want to remind QuickTwist that he didn't even unvote in this thread before casting his new vote:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/509798-newbie-student-mafia-xxi-voting-thread#13

Need to

[b]##unvote
##Vote XXX[/b]

If I'm not mistaken.

On June 04 2016 15:49 Tictock wrote:


So?

On June 04 2016 16:02 Tictock wrote:
Oh hey, I didn't realize you were Russian Jealous.

Thats cool, got a fair bit of ancestry from Russia on my dad's side.

... also a bit of a rare breed on the mafia forums (fairly UK and US dominated)

On June 04 2016 16:13 Tictock wrote:


Well you should lynch me for that if you think that is the sort of thing that scum would do. Is that what you think?

I said tomorrow as in RL day, not a full phase from now.

On June 04 2016 16:15 Tictock wrote:


Yes I could.

Though you were correct about an earlier assumption about my reads, so that will probably tarnish the answer you are hoping for here.

On June 04 2016 16:18 Tumblewood wrote:
1) ok yeah as I see it one of QT and Jealous has to be scum. 2)they're both acting independently scummy (eager to read anything as scummy, tryhard tone, making mountains of molehills). 3) I don't believe that they could both be town, although if they were I will mock D1 relentlessly in postgame. 4) I also believe that they could not keep up this stupid bickering for so long as partners. 5) I'm leaning toward QT at this point for refuting everything Jealous says and then townreading him for it (pretty shallow townread IMO, there's more to the game than just how much you write that's semi-productive). 6) Jealous maybe, but I think my dislike of his tone biases my judgment. 7) 6/10 would lynch QT D1 and if he flips town lynch Jealous D2
or we could plynch sqrt and let their alignments become more apparent over time.

On June 04 2016 16:27 Tictock wrote:


Lol. This response when you are currently pressuring me for reads ^.^

On June 04 2016 16:29 Tictock wrote:


Easiest read yet.

On June 04 2016 23:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:

I know because I'm the vet.

On June 05 2016 03:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:

yes! the worst part of the argument for me is that QuickTwist is not upfront about his explanations. He answers questions in a roundabout manner and gets frustrated when people don't understand him halfway through it. I'm also fairly certain a couple of his explanations were lies such as the tests he seems to keep putting up for Jealous and Tumblewood in making sure they're "paying attention". It could be a sign of a townie very uncomfortable under pressure and lashing out about it, and I've certainly done it before but it's still very bothering for me.

On June 05 2016 03:02 MoosyDoosy wrote:

yes! the worst part of the argument for me is that QuickTwist is not upfront about his explanations. He answers questions in a roundabout manner and gets frustrated when people don't understand him halfway through it. I'm also fairly certain a couple of his explanations were lies such as the tests he seems to keep putting up for Jealous and Tumblewood in making sure they're "paying attention". It could be a sign of a townie very uncomfortable under pressure and lashing out about it, and I've certainly done it before but it's still very bothering for me.

On June 05 2016 11:50 Tumblewood wrote:

"if he's being honest he's town, if he's being dishonest he's scum"
no shit
what is your actual opinion on jealous

On June 05 2016 13:33 NocturneMage wrote:


QuickTwist (3): MoosyDoosy, Jealous, Skynx, Tictock
scott31337 (3): nnn_thekushmountains, QuickTwist, Tumblewood
MoosyDoosy (2): Superbia, beentheredonethat
Superbia (0): QuickTwist

Not Voting (5): emperorchampion, scott31337, blkcoffee, MoosyDoosy, Fecalfeast

Currently QuickTwist will be executed. Day 1 ends in on 23:00 GMT (+00:00).

The voting thread is here.
Only votes there will be counted.

On June 05 2016 14:27 Jealous wrote:

I'm curious about that too. I'd expect veteran players to be more active than this and applying at least a little pressure. However, I guess that without any flips or role results, there isn't much to work off of.

On June 05 2016 15:11 Jealous wrote:

Also, it's around midnight-2 am in America, which is where most of the posters on this forum are from I'm guessing.

On June 04 2016 08:24 QuickTwist wrote:


Try not to confirmation bias, please.

On June 05 2016 16:55 Fecalfeast wrote:
I'm honestly not going to have much time to play until later tomorrow so I'm parking my vote on my preliminary scumread.

I promise to go through the day in the night and maybe some d1 vca but i haven't been home in days. I will be tomorrow though

On June 05 2016 17:51 Fecalfeast wrote:

Yeah I do

On June 05 2016 18:58 Jealous wrote:

Bruh

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/509798-newbie-student-mafia-xxi-voting-thread?page=2#23

On June 05 2016 19:07 QuickTwist wrote:


My mistake.

On June 05 2016 22:06 Superbia wrote:
Why'd you argue so long with jealous?

On June 05 2016 22:13 Superbia wrote:
You think jealous is still town, right?

On June 05 2016 22:31 Superbia wrote:
Skynx can you give me some updates regarding your thoughts atm?

On June 04 2016 10:24 QuickTwist wrote:


IDK what you mean by keeps things clean. I'm a messy person actually so I don't know where this is coming from.

On June 05 2016 06:26 MoosyDoosy wrote:
The difference is I try to be annoying, vague, terrible, and disgusting at the game on purpose. That is, unless QuickTwist is trying to be all these things too.

On June 06 2016 00:13 Tumblewood wrote:
And, QT, why is Jealous not in your town list?

On June 06 2016 00:25 Superbia wrote:


I'm not feeling particularly inclined to explain any of my reads, especially since I'm already globally townread.

Though it mostly has to do with me having a good read on FF and I feel like there's a decent chance he's town. Decent enough to give him a pass today.

We should lynch outside of my townlist. If anyone feels otherwise, you better have a good reason.

On June 06 2016 00:15 Tumblewood wrote:
Having trouble justifying not voting QT, but not feeling good about voting him, either.

On June 04 2016 09:37 Skynx wrote:

Yeah i changed my mind now. QT and Superbia was just spamming and me tunnel visioning one of them didn't help. Newbie mistake.
They both sound scummy.

On June 04 2016 15:00 Tictock wrote:


Unusual use of emoticons from Moosy, so probs mafia.

2 down 1 to go.

On June 06 2016 00:55 Tumblewood wrote:

this is a hard claim I assume?
scum totally can lynch you, as evidenced by your leading wagon. and you won't avoid NK if you claim PR. pls just act townie if you're town.

On June 04 2016 15:30 Tictock wrote:
Pfft, I think I can stop reading @ pg 20 kus I already solved this.

Gunna go play a little more overwatch and see if anyone is around a bit later, but I prob picked a bad time to be active.

Not spoiling my reads till tomorrow.

On June 05 2016 00:34 Tictock wrote:
Ok first thing I feel like talking about, reading based on activity.

Generally I find this to be an unreliable metric. There is some correlation, but it depends pretty heavily on the player in question. Scum can be tryhard and post a ton and town can loose interest or get busy and post very little.

My point?

Plynches based on activity tend to be coin flippy and giving someone a townread kus they are active and posting is weak at best.

It's generally better practice to try and look at the reasons and modivations behind when and why people are posting rather than try and use filter length as a metic. There are some exceptions such as scum-burn out, but even then activity alone is usually not your only indicator.

So the reads I've seen so far like "This dude made a hello post then left! Lynch the scum!" or "Well he's posting a lot so I think he's town" are pretty piss poor imo.

On June 05 2016 00:55 Tictock wrote:
Some townreads for now, then I'll be back after a shower to talk about scum reads.

Super - Jumped right in and has been really focused on interacting with people to develop reads. I've also found our thoughts on a large number of things have been in line. Probably never lynching.

Tumble - Dropping his thoughts when he feels like it, largely a meta read+ Show Spoiler + but I feel fairly confident in it.

Moosy - I'm not sure how to explain this read, but I'm decently solid on it for D1.

blkcoffee - has the right combination of not really giving a fuck and getting excited about something

There's a couple more town leans floating around but I'm gunna leave my town list at that for now.

On June 06 2016 01:03 Tumblewood wrote:

A joke
TT does not seriously think he's found the entire scum team.

On June 06 2016 04:06 Jealous wrote:
t
What's that? Inconclusive indicator of alignment?? <- Just a guess.


That's a false generalization of the arguments presented against you and your defeatist tone reminds me of how I posted when I was Mafia in one of my games way back when. This post to me reads like a weak and desperate last-minute defense.

On June 06 2016 04:21 Jealous wrote:
As far as the other posters, I'm glad that people have started pushing some ideas around as we approach the deadline. Here are some thoughts I have on the game so far:

1. I think that a lot of people in this thread are grasping at straws right now, which is understandable because there isn't much to go off of on Day 1. I don't see any utterly clear alliances here as of yet. It seems like a lot of A thinks B is scum who thinks C is scum who thinks D is scum who thinks A is scum, or something of the like.

2. Given the seemingly inconclusive finger-pointing patters so far, we will have to wait to see the results of the lynch and who voted for whom as our next indicator. As of right now, if my hypothesis is correct and QT is scum, then the people who voted alongside him without much early justification would be kushmountains and Tumblewood, who have not changed their vote despite the player being changed out and I found their arguments for removing sqrt to be weak in the first place (inactivity plynch 2 hours into the game, if I recall correctly? on top of that, other people were just as inactive). This is the most alliance-y thing I can point at so far, but it's too early for me to concretely say I feel that they are scum.

3. Following this line of logic, I don't feel that the votes/inclinations on QT are indicative of a scum alliance because most people have shown their own reasons for voting for QT, most of which are valid, or at least more valid in my eyes than a Scott lynch. Of course, if QT flips town it is possible that one or two scum bandwagoned in order to ensure that he wins over Scott in the last voting push, but it will be hard to tell who. It's simply too early to speculate in specific terms about who would be scum or not in this hypothetical scenario, so I will wait until I see all of the votes and their results.

4. I haven't gotten a strong read on anyone, which is probably because I'm newbie. So far my "could be scum" list is:

1. Kushmountains
2. Tumblewood
3. Superbia (weak read on this, don't have much certainty at all)
4. Fecalfeast (too absent, regardless of whatever excuses he may have)

and of course QT.

Everyone else, as far as I can tell, is townie. Scott can be thrown up there as well for his relative inactivity but I don't think it's fair to judge as quickly because he only learned he was in the game less than 24 hours ago.

On June 06 2016 04:53 Superbia wrote:
I dislike that everyone was scumreading quicky that quickly (lolol), but I also don't like how quicky has been playing.

Tbh, I have looked up a game of quicky on another site (town game), and quickly looked through it on Friday. He struck me as a decently clever town player. I'm kind of missing that feeling here. He feels very defensive and uncomfortable.

But I'm pussying out and voting kush.

On June 06 2016 05:01 Jealous wrote:

Your only concrete argument as far as I recall is the one you just made, which is that I am pushing an agenda, so it's not entirely baseless. However, as objective as I can possibly be about this, I would have to say that your argument is weak. The majority of the town has read me as town, and for some that was a choice between scumreading me or you.

I will concede that your posting has definitely improved since the first 24 hours.

I see what you mean by confirmation bias now more clearly. I will justify by saying it is akin to how one approaches science: you formulate a hypothesis, run a test, gather some data, try to ascertain a conclusion. Then you present your article for peer review. So far peer review has corroborated my initial findings. The initial results will be put to the test after we see the flop.

Although you claimed Blue PR since the first minutes of the game, which could've meant anything since you were shitposting a lot in that time, this is the first time you've claimed VT. MoosyDoosy also claimed VT, if I'm correct in assuming VT = Veteran, but his posting has been inconsistent too. I'm not saying this to make any sort of point, just doing stream of consciousness at the moment. I don't think it'd be wise of you to claim Blue PR if you actually were a Blue PR in the first minutes of the game, because scum would know that you are not scum, and thus when both the Day 1 lynch and the first scum kill are relative stabs in the dark, this seems like a poor strategy because it paints a target on your back. Of course, this could backfire and cause us to do scum's work for them, but I believe that there is no stronger case right now for anyone else and thus I will maintain my vote for you.

On June 06 2016 05:03 Superbia wrote:


Uhh mafiamaniac "The Most Elite Pigeons (Medium Basic Mafia)".

On June 06 2016 05:08 Tictock wrote:


I kinda agree, the general flow of the game and how the votes are going seem to signal a very low key scum team that is probably not up for lynch atm.

QT is also giving me vibes that he's not really to concerned with the pressure atm which isn't really in line with a try-hard scum playing the activity game. I'm wondering if he's a player more like Moosy who's play can be pretty questionable and is lynchbait. While he's kinda all over the place and I have a hard time tracking much line of thought he is being pretty consistent about putting stuff out there.

Is your desire to lynch kush based on meta, or is it more policy due to him being pretty lackluster and only pushing a plynch himself?

I think I might be more keen on lynching Skynx myself.

On June 06 2016 05:09 Jealous wrote:

Yea, I made that mistake, again (posted this on the previous page), please disregard that last line of reasoning.

However, this does not make the rest of the post "OMG so wrong." I stand by it.

If you're saying the truth and you flip VT tomorrow, that would be unfortunate but not as bad as you being a blue PR, so that's taken a load off my shoulders ^^ If you're lying and you're scum, then that would be great and I'd be a boss. I'm liking this scenario.

On June 06 2016 05:10 Superbia wrote:


Google. If you link me your more recent games I may look at them at some point in the future. If either of us are still alive then.

On June 06 2016 05:12 Jealous wrote:

Care to reveal how many of those times you were scum?

On June 06 2016 05:14 Tictock wrote:
QT what was your reasoning for claiming VT now?

On June 06 2016 05:21 Jealous wrote:

I don't think there is a decent chance. I only said "if."

I'm adamant about killing him because he is the only scumread I have any certainty about and so I went after it.

On June 06 2016 05:34 Tictock wrote:


It's just... if you are VT and decided to open the game by claiming Blue (having a PR) then I can only assume you did so to create some discussion and in a very off chance draw mafia KP.

If it looks like you are getting lynched then I'm not sure why you would change your plans there and claim VT instead.

Like if I were in your shoes I'd go full fake claim to try and get the wagon off me and draw mafia KP tonight. Chance you get lynched anyways but hey you are only VT, and if you convince people you are blue you have a good chance at drawing KP. Sure you are setting yourself up to die one way or another, but if you wanted to play the long game you probably don't open with a fake claim to be a PR.

So claiming VT now as an "hey don't lynch me I'm just town and not important" doesn't really make sense. It seems more like a play for survival especially since you literally said,


Which just says to me "Hey don't hurt me, I'm not important"

On June 06 2016 06:39 Tictock wrote:


Why are you assuming we'd lynch a townie if we don't lynch you?

On June 06 2016 07:26 Jealous wrote:

Because I felt like it would be better coming from me than it would be coming from him.

On June 06 2016 07:34 Tictock wrote:


Well if you are town, and we move off you then 3/9 chance that who we move to is scum. Hopefully with all your flailing and reaction testing you have a pretty decent idea who is scum and can help move town onto a good lynch given your perspective.

I don't really see you doing that, you're read on Jealous is pretty obviously just OMGUS + Show Spoiler + or put more simply you are throwing the same style of confirmation bias scum read you are accusing Jealous of having on you back at him. Also you don't seem to be pushing it that hard. It's also hard to believe you have solid scumreads when your response to explaining why you scum read me was to quote a few of my posts with one liners.

So... yea I'm having a hard time seeing why we shouldn't just go ahead and lynch you QT.

On June 19 2016 07:20 Tictock wrote:

I actually hope you decide to play again, you were really active and seemed to be pretty interested in getting advice on how to improve in Obs.

Though there are plenty of players around here who will want to lynch you with the playstyle you have. Eventually people will learn to read you a little better and if you keep at it (especially taking advantage of coaching, obs, and shadowing if you would like) you'll find your own play improving.

On June 19 2016 19:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
tbh i have no idea why QT was lynched. Both him an Jealous seemed pretty obviously town on D1. Like.. that was one of the most obvious t/t fights i have seen in a game.

On June 20 2016 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Maybe. Being awol doesn't make anyone scum though.

On June 21 2016 09:22 Jealous wrote:

Seems like a good read with poor support is no better than a poor read ):