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9/40
On April 30 2016 08:49 Tictock wrote:
I was gunna read filters tonight but some stuff has come up and idk if I'll get time.
HtS the thing thats odd about you to me is that today you seem to be pushing me and not considering anyone else. You kinda brushed off my point about your meta read on me saying you looked at Haunted mansion, but tbh most of your points really come down to the same thing you were admonishing Fidei for, it's mostly just a fear read "He does a good job at looking townie as scum" and tbh I'm not sure any of your points are exclusive to my scum games.
But putting that aside (and tbh it's kinda omgus anyways) I see stuff that still makes me think you can be town here, so I'd like to understand why you don't seem to be considering anyone else today.
From my pov we have confirmed town Tumble, Koshi is is almost certainly town (or deserves the win if mafia), Shape who is probably town from DYH's D1 push and my shitty reasoning from earlier. Which leaves HtS and Gum.
Gum did a lot of martyring D2 and then came back to start playing near EoD and picked it up enough to get everyone off him. D3 he tunneled GB hard, had that fight with him that looked pretty likely to be TvT and to some extent continued his martyering (he made several mentions of "you guys should lynch me or GB"). Today, nothing.
HtS has honestly seemed town to me all game, putting in tons of effort and I've felt like a lot of her reads were being good and objective, not just pushing for a mislynch (that feeling has changed today though). I don't recall any solid pushes from her though, was pretty solidly on LS D1 but was all over the place EoD and her shift onto FF was shady given she had been semi-defending him earlier. I don't really recall off the top of my head where her head was at D3 but tbh I was kinda tunneled on Fidei so wasn't paying a ton of attn. Now today is fairly hard pushing me.
HtS does make a good point that SL did push her a fair bit D1 when there was literally no reason for him to bus her.
So I'm leaning towards Gum being the last mafia right now. I'm interested in checking his reactions to the DYH wagon D2, and I kinda want to reread the stuff between him and GB as that fight is kinda the main reason why I and I think a lot of people are TRing him right now. (this is more a mental note for me when I go to read his filter)
It should be pretty obvious from reading all the filters - I've had my reasons to TR other people. To sum up things in one line -
First I'm pushing you after reading and considering anyone else so you saying or suggesting that I'm not considering anyone else is basically inaccurate at best or framing me as scum at worst. As for gumshoe I'll comment that he looked shite from the votes alone but it was day 2/day 3 gameplay that had me think he was town.
Second both you (and Koshi) obviously are ignoring the pushes I had on GB day 2.
Third I'm not fear reading you, fear reads are just that, there are other substantiated points against you that I wasn't going to beat with a dead horse. There are people that are townreading you or not looking at you closely enough and again in one sentence - people shouldn't give you a pass for the cases you are writing without thinking it through.
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8/40
On April 30 2016 12:05 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2016 21:56 Half the Sky wrote:
2/40
My concern with Tumbleweed lies in 101 and 110. The gist of it is that he is posting for the sake of posting and the questions are very open-ended with the argument that the information he's getting from it will not be helpful with determining alignments.
101
The comment on Shapelog is clearly answered if he'd read the thread - Shapelog by his own admission said his first five posts - of which one was quoted - was fluff. So he's asking a question already answered. It's possible town can neglect to read carefully but lets proceed to the next point.
The comment on Lightning Strike was bad (and this is part of why I this LS could be mafia) - it is townreading LS for a poor reason. LS in the quoted statement says Tictock "blatantly" doesn't want to stir up discussion - Tictock may not want to post if he has nothing to contribute ESPECIALLY in a post-restricted game. So for him to take an NAI point and paint it as mafia indicative is poor, and by extension the townread is poor.
110
Same concern as in 101, non sequitur means illogical (more or less) so placing that expectation within the first few posts of the game is just meh. It seems forced.
Moving on to LS, which is easily explained.
Post 96 is a poor reason (or at least a weak reason) to townread Gumshoe, or at least the reason he gave. As stated before my bigger concern is with post 101 though, trying to make something that is alignment indicative which isn't necessarily so. Honestly HtS how can you make posts like this without fucking quoting the goddam quote.
I have half a mind to vote you just for making me go through this...
This is actually pretty forced, and I'm glad Tumble actually saw this as well.
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9/40
There are a few things where Tictock takes things out of context so I'll break it down.
On April 30 2016 14:31 Tictock wrote:[...] Nothing much else stuck out to me throughout Pg4 of HtS's filter, so we are zooming into EoD2 where we see in #677 HtS is kinda defending DYH (though it looks more like a null read that she has on him) then in #689 is suddenly jumping to meta DYH "so I can deal with my phobia." Given that she loves to throw out meta and has done so a lot this game it's interesting to note that this is the first time she does it for DYH as a wagon starts to form on him. While she seems to be struggeling to decide between GB and DYH she says she's staying on GB in #712 and then in the very next post (#718) The way her read on DYH developed from D1 to EoD2 seems very suspect, especially the final swap when literally one min before she had said she was staying on GB. While there was more stuff throught this cycle that seemed kinda townie or not as noteworthy to me I can't ignore how suspect HtS's EoD's were on both D1 and D2.
D1 vote, I won't beat with a dead horse.
Tictock's highlighting of this quote for day 2 is problematic because the ONLY thing I was saying here was that DYH is the lynch and not that DYH was mafia. It's almost hilarious how he's trying to extrapolate how I just conclude out of NOWHERE as EITHER alignment (if you think about it) that the mafia HAS to be DYH. The fact he's framing this as mafia indicative indicates he's scum going for the mislynch here.
Second, the reason I was willing to draw more on meta with Fecalfeast is because I've played significantly more with him than with DYH (only one game, this being the second) and I can more rely on meta with someone like FF than with DYH. So that should answer the question there. So framing that as suspicious or suggesting that is also a problem.
This reeks of how he took Tumble out of context day 1 - this should NOT go ignored if/when/should I flip.
On April 30 2016 16:17 Tictock wrote:
I really can't be bothered to finish those filters, it's 1am where I am now.
I have a few misgivings still about Gum, but I also see some pretty decent reasons to townread him as well. His EoD's D1 and D2 don't look great, but honestly they dont really suggest much scum agenda either. He voted for SL in a way that gains no cred, and he voted DYH with what seemed like genuine regret to be giving up on his GB read. Neither of these moves were made to gain cred and help him survive and his pushing on GB and maytring while possible to come from scum seem more likely to be town, especially in the positions Gum has been in.
Compared with HtS's filter and reads, it's almost night and day. HtS mentions DYH alot be refuses to make an effort to read him untill a wagon starts on him, THEN goes to find meta which suggests me could be scum. Her flip onto FF over SL looks pretty sus when she was townreading and defending FF for a good part of the day. She used meta to suddenly swap her read on FF to scum and swap off SL. Now again today she is using a largely Meta argument against me, and without really comparing her points to my town games.
I could maybe be wrong about Shape, and I'll try to take a look at his filter tomorrow, but honestly having looked through all that I think it has to be HtS.
##Vote Half the Sky
I explained Day 1 why I meta read FF more extensively. Also mentioning DYH a "lot" was me interacting with him and the pointed way in which he was reading some people and not others was what drew my attention to him.
You framing it the way you are "mentioning DYH a lot but not reading him" is a mafia-indicative way of putting it because that WAS the very basis I used to further look into him when LS brought up his meta.
The last argument about not considering your town games is completely untrue.
Everyone - among other things like his Day 1 play and the associative reads on - I want you all to look closely at how Tictock is framing the arguments against me, this is exactly what he's done once already this game with Tumble and how it also compares to points in his other scum games. (In Haunted Mansion, his points were more direct, by constrast.) Even if you mislynch me today YOU DO NOT IGNORE THE WAY TICTOCK IS FRAMING ARGUMENTS IN MYLO END OF.
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10/40
I have a tonne of stuff plus a milestone birthday party to attend tonight so I will have very limited time. I'll do my best to rove on mobile and answer questions from here through End of Day.
But if people are scared of me or cannot get over the D1 vote, you absolutely should go ahead and mislynch me and then lynch Tictock in mylo after you review how he made the arguments against me, it's not from a town standpoint in the least, and you should also take into consideration how he kept doubting Fidei's claim even without a counterclaim.
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11/40
Also to answer to Koshi's concern about sicklucker bussing me - sicklucker will bus in situations where it makes sense. He bussed me in Void but I was the underperforming/semi-inactive mafia in that game. It benefitted him and he (more or less) carried. Here it would not make sense for him to do that, especially when he was vanilla and the last remaining player is the likely RB.
(In Void, he was rolecop, I was vanilla)
Take that as you will, but I thought I'd also set the record straight there too.
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15/40
This is brutal on mobile but I'll highlight two more instances where Tictock is taking things out of context.
On May 01 2016 00:29 Tictock wrote:You talk about how SL pushed you in #1053 as a defense for yourself. Sure SL made some posts that parroted what others like Damdred were saying about you, but it was hardly a push on you. Hell even the vote SL made on you was at a time when you were super unlikely to be lynched, and he hopped off just as fast as he hopped on.
First you're ignoring what SL ultimately did, he hopped off to Koshi with a troll vote (smileyface at the end in the vote thread I recall), he was taking advantage of Damdred misreading me and of course you can't have a hard push when you try to take advantage of shennanies 7m before EoD. The thread sentiment was there to get me killed and you are completely mischaracterising it.
Tumble was not talking about this post at all, what seems forced about it? I legit cannot fathom how you made a post where you referred to a post like this:
[...]
He had bad vibes about the way you were pushing me and he basically saw the same thing I did with your push on me.
You def had a TR on FF for most of D1, it was when he voted you that you suddenly backed off that read (omgus) then when the votes d). But I think when you look at the EoD there you come off significantly more suspect HtS because your reads shift quite dramatically for little reason in a short time.
And yet again you are ignoring why. You ignore the why, you ignore everything I had taken into consideration and in the eod2 you keep pushing that I pushed meta which was completely untrue, IT WAS LS that mentioned to look at his scum games but I was just more convinced on GB.
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16/40
I'm getting pulled away again and I won't be around for EoD. If you decide to ML me, that's fine. If I'm dead when I return whoever is left after the nightkill please evaluate the d1 play, the votes about d2, the association reads and specific the pushes Tictock has made on everyone and specifically the way he's framing his arguments. I think I've touched on enough to the point I'm beating a dead horse.
Just don't let him win in mylo or the Koshi pocketing intimidate you, if you have to ML me to get to him, I'm alright with that.
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17/40
........................
I don't even. Fuck my life.
The no votes are embarrassing tbh and I'm sorry Tictock, amongst other things I'm really upset with my own play.
I'll return sometime this evening closer to the day post unless I can break away to re-read before then yet again.
Also possibility of one of the no votes being mafia lurking knowing both wagons were town, in mylo-1 and a known first warning offence it's quite possible.
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1/40
If you are town, and are lynching me because you legitimately think I'm mafia, that's fine. You're wrong, and if you aren't reconsidering, you're tunnelled as all hell.
If you are town, and are pulling the same rubbish you did in Haunted Mansion (with onegu) and are lynching me out of spite, then you are (almost) singularly throwing the game. It's mylo, there are 48h left, if it IS gumshoe or Shape, then you are just as much to blame for bailing this cycle as I am for my poor gameplay. Please.
If you are (tinfoil) mafia, which I think to be unlikely, then do your thing.
Onwards.
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On May 02 2016 08:18 gumshoe wrote:
Hey, sorry kosh, past few days have been hectic, no time for maf
shape is town, cause dyh accused him pretty hard.
your town cause day 2.
I'm town cause derp
so yeah, hts it is
##vote hts
2/40
4 people remaining, first to two votes gets lynched. This is a pretty terrible post without considering why it's me over Shape (when sicklucker did the same day 1).
Think I found the final mafia trying to clinch, but I'll go through the motions again to be sure. If for nothing else postgame cred xD
##vote gumshoe
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3/40
For reference - all votes
KNOWN ALIGNMENTS ONLY
Vote Reconstruction v4
2124, approx 2h prior to EoD
On April 22 2016 05:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
Not voted (5) - Shapelog, DoYouHas, Damdred, gumshoe, Fecalfeast
2244, approx 45m prior to EoD - sicklucker was the hammer
On April 22 2016 06:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog
LightningStrike (2) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
DoYouHas (2) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (1) - Gumshoe
Not Voting (1) - DoYouHas
2315, or 15m to EoD - sickucker STILL the lynch with most votes
DISCLAIMER: I reconstructed from here on out with strikethroughs this vote from the voting thread - call me out if I've made a mistake.
Sicklucker (4) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
Fecalfeast (3) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
2316, or 14m to EoD - gumshoe effectively hammers FF
Fecalfeast (4) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred, gumshoe
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
2327, or 3m to EoD - Town pile on FF
Fecalfeast (6) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred, gumshoe, Half the Sky, Shapelog
Half the Sky (2) - LightningStrike, sicklucker
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
Damdred (1) - Fecalfeast
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Koshi (0) - sicklucker
Sicklucker (0) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
2330 - End of Day 1
Fecalfeast (5) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred, gumshoe, Half the Sky, Shapelog
Half the Sky (2) - LightningStrike, sicklucker, Damdred
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
Damdred (1) - Fecalfeast
Koshi (1) - sicklucker, sicklucker
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Sicklucker (0) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Day 2
On April 25 2016 07:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Final Votecount - Day 2: DoYouHas (5) - LightningStrike, Fidei86, Koshi, Shapelog, TicTockGlowingBear (2) - Koshi, gumshoe, Half the Skygumshoe (1) - Tictock, gumshoe, Tumblewood, GlowingBear, Half The Sky, Koshi, KoshiKoshi (2) - GlowingBear, DoYouHas, GlowingBearShapelog (0) - KoshiTumblewood (0) - Half the Sky, Koshi, Tictock, gumshoeDoYouHas is slated to be lynched.
Day 3
On April 28 2016 07:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
GlowingBear (6) - gumshoe, Tictock, Koshi, Fidei86, Shapelog, Half the Sky
TicTock (1) - GlowingBear
Shapelog (0) - Koshi
Half the Sky (0) - Koshi
Fidei86 (0) - Koshi, TicTock, Half the Sky
Not Voted (1) - Tumblewood
Day 4
On May 01 2016 07:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
TicTock (2) - Half the Sky, Tumblewood
Half the Sky (2) - Koshi, Tictock, Koshi
Not Voted (2) - Shapelog, gumshoe
Tictock is slated to be lynched.
On votes alone, day 1 and day 2 implicate gumshoe, esp day 1. Mafia shapelog could have bussed GF DYH day 2 with the unlikeliness of a DT, but given the timing of the votes again, I'm doubting it.
It's late but I'll pick up tomorrow during break.
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4/40
On May 02 2016 09:18 gumshoe wrote:
sl and dyh trd you pretty hard, thats not indicative of you bieng scum but it doesnt help me tr you ethier.
Regardless, my play has been lack luster and I may deserve todays lynch, but shape is def town here.
Again, this is wrong, again SL tried to get me killed, this has been said already once before, and associative reads are best done when the scum are ignoring their teammates or the interactions are meaningless, that's not at all what you are even saying here though.
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5/40
Good morning.
I already have 1-2 people commenting on my behalf in the postgame, as thankfully I won't be around to deal with (or most of Tuesday for that matter) after the game ends. But I'll respond to this whilst and since I can -
On May 02 2016 10:48 Koshi wrote:
HTS you are getting lynched because yesterday I said the lynch should be Shape or HTS and you kept going on about TT while there was a fucking 0% chance the guy was mafia.
[...]
If you are town HTS, the lynch on TT was the worst fucking play you ever did in your life. It is fucking ridiculous how fucking bad it was, the guy was never ever fucking scum.
[...]
But the TT lynch was so fucking bad and it was 100% HTS her fault. So now she is getting lynched for being that bad. But probably she is mafia so that is fine.
I wasn't the only one who voted Tictock, I won't claim to read Tumble's mind, but I would suggest you ask why he voted Tictock or why Tictock's posts gave him bad vibes.
Second, I wasn't the only one who scumread Tictock at other points in the game. My comments will address Fidei in the postgame for other reasons, but you should also ask him why he scumread Tictock as he did if this is how you feel. I not only pushed the meta, but bought into the prior arguments made against him, and rightfully so.
On May 02 2016 10:48 Koshi wrote:
I explained in detail why he wasn't mafia, and you decided to fucking ignore it even after the guy made a zillion big WoTs posts.
And I explained multiple times over that his posting style was also present as mafia and this would not have been a factor in my decision. I read his town games but deliberately did not comment on them as I tried to make my posts a little more concise towards the end of this game. If you choose to ignore those arguments or ignore his posting style as mafia period, that part is just as much on you.
On May 02 2016 10:48 Koshi wrote:
HTS you are getting lynched because yesterday I said the lynch should be Shape or HTS and you kept going on about TT while there was a fucking 0% chance the guy was mafia.
[...]
So you are gettting lynched because you ignored me.
[...]
But if you are town you deserve to fucking get lynched as well.
I'll call these statements for what they are, spiteful, and just as much as what you did in Haunted Mansion lategame. They address me as if I am town.
Several players ignored you, and quite frankly each other, this game, town had this issue all game, I'm just as much to blame as anyone else. If you arguing that makes me mafia then you are lynching me for something that doesn't necessarily make me mafia. Just saying.
On May 02 2016 10:48 Koshi wrote:
If the mafia is between Shape and gumshoe it is really pathetic they didn't vote but w.e. Maybe it wasn't tactical.
2 votes a piece on two town wagons, no reason to rock the boat honestly as scum, but I'm sure this part will be explained in the postgame.
On May 02 2016 10:48 Koshi wrote:
Shape wasn't pressured at all this game but got townread by literally everybody for no good reason so w.e
gumshoe is a jackass for not voting as mafia but deserved the win because he was 10 times better than HTS.
HTS only deserves the win as mafia. Sadly we got to lynch her. kudos for your play as mafia, hard to do with those 2 teammates. Great posts during the D1 and D2. You were not lynched on effort alone, because your play was pretty scummy.
Again I was townread by several this game, you should probably ask those people after this game ends, what they saw in me that you weren't able. Most players played pretty scummy to one degree or another this game, the number of town/town arguments this game is pretty indicative of that overall, and re-reading your day 1-2 it was pretty apparent we had two different styles of playing this game, and not ever saw eye to eye, that is fine, but you admitted prior/during to the DYH lynch you had trouble lynching mafia yourself so to criticise me for the same is pretty hypocritical on your part.
I will flip town when the game ends, just understand you are just as much to blame for the loss for your attitude and play in mylo as much as myself. I'm fully aware I have played worse than usual but for you to play this way in mylo and then to turn around and then say this is quite astonishing.
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6/40
On May 02 2016 12:05 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +Obv I cant read the pages I missed and defend myself at the same time. But id imagine hts is scum for that vote. Shes not that silly This is a pretty godamm half hearted offense hts -_- nothing like how dyh pushed koshi shape and to a lesser extent me. It is sl though / : but meh. He attacked you cause you voted him(thats it) you voted him cause it looked like he was already dead / : on top of that he switched onto koshi pretty fast (only 12 minutes, he never even explained why he switched to koshi last second) in fact he seemed to switch onto koshi (for no reason) my guess is he saw that he was making you into the secondary wagon.
a minute after this was posted, he switched votes with no comment on why / : he was still accusing you, but he was voting koshi, someone who was never getting lynched and who he wasnt currently accusing -_- yeah... looks a tinsy bit shadey.
You aren't taking into account that SL only appeared in the last few minutes of the cycle, and readily took advantage of Damdred mis-reading me, but you're mafia, you can pretty much say whatever you please.
To contrast that to how DYH pushed Koshi is pretty funny actually, just like sicklucker did with Damdred, all he really did was piggyback off the push that GB led on Koshi all cycle 2 as follows:
On April 25 2016 04:56 DoYouHas wrote:I get the reasons why gum is a good lynch, I agree with them, but I would rather lynch Koshi. + Show Spoiler [GB's case] +On April 24 2016 06:10 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +I have no real reasons to think he is mafia except for the fact he is not really town and there is no real townie anything coming from him. Which I had 2 games ago when he was town. And didn't have when he was mafia. He just looks town by game events when he is mafia. And is town by his posting when he is town. Well, you can't really tell someone is town by his way of posting when you're playing a post-restricted game. You're basically said he looks town by game events and that makes him mafia (so, meta-read). But you've just posted this: Show nested quote +On April 24 2016 04:19 Koshi wrote:
##unvote
##vote Shape
Underwhelming. I am also thinking people are pretty townie. So what is the real reason you're voting Shape? Is that because he looks underwhelming or because of that bad meta? Also, you said you're also voting Shape because people are pretty townie to you. So how am I "meh"? Why are you not willing to vote me? Isn't "meh" basically "underwhelming"? Which means there are more underwhelming people in the game by your own standards. So why going against Shapelog, who actually posted a lot Day1? By normal standards, I am kinda underwhelming this game based on my inactivity (and I'm inactive because I've been busy), DYH is also underwhelming. Why are you not talking about them? Why didn't you lynch SL who was pretty much underwhelming day1? Why did you pressured people asking them "why aren't you voting SL"? Also, are you sure you find people townie? : Show nested quote +On April 23 2016 21:33 Koshi wrote:Man looking at this vote count this looks pretty bad for me. Sicklucker was not lynched due to these people: 2316, or 14m to EoD - gumshoe effectively hammers FF
Fecalfeast (4) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred, gumshoe
Sicklucker (3) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Half the Sky (1) - LightningStrike
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Koshi (1) - sicklucker
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
2327, or 3m to EoD - Town pile on FF
Fecalfeast (6) - Tumblewood, Koshi, Damdred, gumshoe, Half the Sky, Shapelog
Half the Sky (2) - LightningStrike, sicklucker
Sicklucker (1) - FecalFeast, Damdred, Shapelog, Half the Sky, gumshoe
LightningStrike (1) - Half the Sky, GlowingBear
Tumblewood (1) - Tictock
Gumshoe (1) - Fidei86
TicTock (0) - Gumshoe
Shapelog (1) - DoYouHas
Damdred (1) - Fecalfeast
DoYouHas (0) - Koshi, Tumblewood
Koshi (0) - sicklucker now with tumble town and me being town that looks somewhat really bad for gum.I can't think for shit atm so I will just wait till I got some time to look into this. I guess I got to look into gum (which I found really fishy early, not the same as how he opened in the numbered game but he tried to look the same, which makes it suspicious). And then I got to look into hts and see if she was setting up this tumble ml. Would be impressive. So if gumshoe is looking bad... how are you townreading everyone? Why aren't you pressuring/voting gumshoe WHO IS LOOKING BAD instead of simply voting Shapelog who has been UNDERWHELMING? See, Koshi, your thought process isn't clear. It looks like you throw thoughts out of the blue without any kind of consistency. You're following your own agenda. That's why I think you're mafia. On April 23 2016 07:28 DoYouHas wrote:
Koshi - I want to say Koshi's active and aggressive style is town. But he jumped up and down on me for valid points against Shape. He jumped up and down on HtS for the null read of FF while ignoring things I thought pointed to her being town. I don't think we get into the EoD we had without at least 1 scum in the movers and shakers. (Koshi, HtS, Damd, and maybe TT) Koshi pushed the lynch of 2 town for sure and probably 3. He is attacking town, leading lynches on town and after being proven wrong on FF he still wants to off HtS instead of stepping back and reassessing. Thinking he could be scum.
Koshi led the wagon off of SL, attacks town all of day 1, and is very inconsistent day 2. He is pushing a scum agenda. ##Vote: Koshi
That's it. He said jack all on Koshi after that. Also the SL vote to Koshi was pretty irrelevant and after the 6th vote was on Fecalfeast, it is WIFOM at best.
For you to dismiss in such a short time, that is scummy, it is pretty clear you are taking advantage of Koshi's not moving his vote, which is obviously why you brought him to mylo, easy 1-2 vote for you, good on you there.
Actually backtracking...
On April 25 2016 04:56 DoYouHas wrote:
I get the reasons why gum is a good lynch, I agree with them, but I would rather lynch Koshi.
Heck, this statement alone would partially indicate you two are partners, come to think of it.
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7/40
I'm here. Picking up. I'll just call it as I see it.
On May 03 2016 02:03 gumshoe wrote:
Day 1: would I really so blatantly defended/ waffled on sl just as momentoum starts to build off him? I went from scum reading him to town reading him in a rapid span, seems like the kinda shit scum would want to avoid. Comparatively hts's interactions were a lot safer.
Night 1: why shoot damdred? As I said myself earlier, I felt he was a likely blue heal, plus he was tring me and dyh reasonably hard, sl was highly likely to die eventually so they didn't kill him for that guy. Damdred was constantly coming back to hts as scum, if scum was going to win this game with an hts dyh sl combo, it would be via hts's strong play. To that end, Damdred was a pretty huge threat, you also can't say the chance of heal is a non factor, as doc actually did heal Damdred, he just got rbd. With hts as trump card, the risky shot makes sense.
This first part is pretty WIFOM altogether, given Damdred's list, your reasoning cannot possibly exclude Shape, but we'll recap here.
On April 23 2016 06:22 Damdred wrote:
I had to run to the store so my post won't be posted maybe mafia won't kill me and I'll be able to post it when I'm home.
But ATM I have
Damdred
LS
Gumshoe
Ticktock
As my really pretty sure they are town
GB
Dyh
Koshi
As my probably town right now
Hts
Right now is a gut feel town.
I feel like tumble is really likely mafia with what I said.
Which leaves me in a world where SL, shape and james have two mafia in it from my perspective. Technically GB could drop here but idk I'm in his pocket a bit ATM with the hard town read earlier.
If I had to make a guess its James, SL and tumble. But i was still working through things
Several problems with the points you are making - LS (and even I admitted) mentioned the tactical wagon to shoot was myself, and scum could not have known that SL was or wasn't getting shot N1. Second, to suggest that Shape couldn't possibly be mafia from your own reasoning is poor at best, but I'll continue.
On May 03 2016 02:03 gumshoe wrote:
Day2 I come out with a huge case on a townie, and dyh chooses to fight me on my double town scum reads? Something's wrong there, again, also my reluctance to lynch dyh there was pretty blatant, as always you can't avoid the traps you don't know are coming.
This is not what I'd consider "fighting" nor did he do anything meaningful or push you in an alignment indicative manner with what you are claiming:
On April 25 2016 05:06 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 05:00 gumshoe wrote:
I'll consent to lynching fedie or gb, otherwise it's better to just kill me (the scummiest townie) cause I don't see a red flip coming from anyone else. You just listed two people I think are town. Aggression is not exclusively a townie trait and it doesn't make Koshi town.
Night 2 lightning-another guy who was tring me pretty hard / :
This can't possibly be used in anyone's defence, even as he got out of the tunnel on myself. He was universally townread and was actively trying to organise town. It's pretty clear that most of the rest of town was disorganised and scum in general have taken advantage of that all game long.
On May 03 2016 02:03 gumshoe wrote:
Day 3 : I am incapable of putting that much effort into lynching someone I know is town, I have never and will probably never push a case that hard as scum. Meanwhile hts was going back and forth on me and gb as the scummer, which is pretty optimal for at some point getting us both lynched.
[...]
Also would I really go after hts here as scum? Koshi particularly begging to kill shape _- I'm not going for the easiest lynch, I'm going for the one I think has the highest chance of red regardless of if I deserve or even can do so
The self-meta and WIFOM aside, the bolded is also really bad and takes what I actually did out of context. I was hard scumreading GB before both you engaged with each other, and threw my case at him to see how he reacted, and at the time concluded both of you were town on town after engaging you both. I drew doubt to your timestamps and rightfully so, and you backed off, so how you are categorising this now is really shady. (GB's confusing read on Tictock threw me off, but as far as you two interacting I was getting reads on you both.) [/quote]
Koshi being willing to kill me at points this cycle also negates you "not" going for the easiest lynch, but regardless that doesn't make you town the way you are claiming.
Obviously you're re-framing your arguments to make me look bad, and your hitting me immediately for the second vote right off the gate to lock in a likely mislynch is very suspicious.
But I'll continue with your next post and go through the motions with Shape to be fully sure.
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8/40
On May 03 2016 08:35 gumshoe wrote:
I also dont think shape would let you into final 4 koshi / : your unkillable and eager to murder him.
And scum me would? Silly based on his lynch preferences across multiple cycles. Talk about double standards.
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9/40
For reference - associative reads only:
sicklucker on Shape/gumshoe:
On April 21 2016 09:30 sicklucker wrote:
Dont want to lynch Ls hes so cute and trying hard
Ticktock is looking really strong
I do want to lynch koshi but hes probably town. Not sure I can do another koshi game
Gum probably town from what I know about him
FF was not even in the top 3 people for wasting posts early so im not sure why hes being attacked.
Hts seems over defensive but maybe thats just the koshi factor
wish I could read shapelogs posts but luckily he does not have one
I want to lynch gb a lil for this posts
4
Ok since SL never answered me, I must say I don't like his posts
He has an opening calling Damdred "null" (the only thing I can understabd from bolding a name) because damdred was wasting posts. This is bad because:
1) It is impossible to have contentful posts in the beginning of the game
2) Calling someone null is saying something someone did is not alignment indicative, which means (I) he is wasting a post because he is saying nothing contributive, and (ii) he is trying to look contributive while saying nothing at all.
Wanting to lynch LS in the beginning of the game for wasting posts just reinforces this perspective
He clearly missed the many posts by me and my comrades that my post ment nothing.
So town read on Gumshoe, no read on shapelog, no real interaction otherwise with either.
Shapelog on SL and DYH
On April 21 2016 07:37 Shapelog wrote:gumshoe called me a cunt :/ A little one at that  Anyways, I've done my rounds in my other game. I skimmed tbh to this point right now (about to cook/eat dinner) and this is just some things I noted. * LS has fucking used almost 25 posts. And roughly about the time I wrote this statement, it is 24 hours in. I wouldn't usually mind LS spam, but he is chewing through them like hot cakes. like for him to try to condense it down. *GB has posted about SL. And that is still it. I want him to expand a little bit. He also seems to ignore Tumble/someone's post responding about if SL was serious or not. I feel like with the focus he is giving to SL, he should of responded to those (at least IMO)  YH and SL are silentOther than that, nothing strikes me off the bat. After Dinner I look at things more closely. [10? idk, I just say 10]
No actual read or interaction here.
From list post:
On April 22 2016 01:10 Shapelog wrote:[...] DYH: Nothing I am seeing is making think he is town or scum. The sheeping thing caught my eye, but makes sense if HTS is his top town read. Would like to see more out of him. Also his opinion on LS, since LS is the main one pushing Sky, his top town read. [...] SaltShaker Kinda debating putting him in the scum lean cat. (I did) I would expect him to do more after saying most people are going to wait to post (his 3rd post.) Also this post really doesn't give much if you look at it: Show nested quote +Dont want to lynch Ls hes so cute and trying hard
Ticktock is looking really strong
I do want to lynch koshi but hes probably town. Not sure I can do another koshi game
Gum probably town from what I know about him
FF was not even in the top 3 people for wasting posts early so im not sure why hes being attacked.
Hts seems over defensive but maybe thats just the koshi factor
wish I could read shapelogs posts but luckily he does not have one
I want to lynch gb a lil for this posts A lot of his town reads aren't really explained (TT) and just feels rushed in a way. He is kinda avoids a read on 3 people (talks about FF, but doesn't actually really gives a read, more so on the threads interaction on FF) (HTS statement was pretty none positional) (and I have really no clue what he means on mine lol) He also doesn't seem to go after anyone other than GB. And focuses on GB on his next post.
Read on SL a bit more meaningful, possible bus however based on SL activity/vanilla role. DYH read from Shape could indicate partners.
On April 22 2016 07:22 Shapelog wrote:
Yeah, I really do not understand the lynch progression on FF. Eh, Like others pointed out (and kinda was some of my thought) SL could have came back now to do it. But, eh, he could of done it as town too.
I'm switching.
This switch off is possible from either alignment.
On April 25 2016 07:26 Shapelog wrote:
I voted DYH because I can't remember anything other than the sus. about him and that is about it. Still reading thoy
On April 25 2016 07:29 Shapelog wrote:
Someone give me a quick reason why the thread thinks they are scum so I can catch up faster.
Personally, just skimming through GB's fliter, I like it a bit more than DYH.
Goes from zero reads anywhere to voting DYH, 50/50 here in town v scum. Pluses here is that he can eval as town like this, it is akin to Palmar's sexy filter method. Unsure of whether it could have been a vote to blend in as enough were switching to DYH.
DYH on Shape/SL and Gumshoe
On April 20 2016 08:00 DoYouHas wrote:
Gumshoe is overplaying the jokes with Koshi and Damdred.
On April 20 2016 08:11 DoYouHas wrote:
You expressed an opinion about Plynching and then joke-scummed Damdred. The opinion has nothing to do with Damdred, he just prompted it.
Gum asked Damd to give him a reason to think HTS was more likely to be scum for real. Then, after his question is blown off with another joke, goes back to a joking tone and vote. It is the shift from a pressuring tone back to a joking tone for no reason that caught my eye.
Long explanation for a small feeling, but whatever.
This read completely drops on Gumshoe and then progresses to "cautiously optimistic." Could be a contrived read from DYH or a soft push.
On April 23 2016 07:28 DoYouHas wrote:
Shape - We'll be getting into this more today, but my original reasons for voting him are still good and he is likely scum.
SL - I'm putting off making a decision on him. I don't have strong feelings either way and he promised more activity today.
Damdred - Cautiously optimistic.
Gumshoe - Cautiously optimistic.
On April 25 2016 04:56 DoYouHas wrote:
I get the reasons why gum is a good lynch, I agree with them, but I would rather lynch Koshi.
On April 25 2016 05:29 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2016 05:24 Fidei86 wrote:
There are lots of other points against me - #1 is I have no f'ing idea who I want to vote this evening. Activity could be a thing - I have tons of OGI excuses, but I know those don't carry any weight.
Does it seem likely that scum gumshoe calls the wagon on Koshi dumpster, when that's the only other one going?
Any reasoning we can have around gum is WIFOMed all to hell. As soon as anyone asks to be lynched they are playing against their win condition. All that is left is whether or not town will do it more often than scum.
Bolded statements indicate potential partner talk between gumshoe and DYH. Second points to an indecision type read on gum.
On April 25 2016 05:49 DoYouHas wrote:
This is what is eating at me. I was convinced Shape was scum. The sl flip made that less likely. I don't want to drop him from my suspect list, especially since he hasn't said a word for a while, but I don't see him being scum with Koshi.
This part about Shape might weaken the (town) point about the hard push from DYH pushing him D1 when Shape wasn't in danger of being lynched.
gumshoe on DYH/SL
First a long list post in response to DYH's initial push. Then this conclusion more or less:
On April 22 2016 06:38 gumshoe wrote:
Dyh seems like town on a cursory look.
On April 22 2016 06:44 gumshoe wrote:
Also sick is now doc holiday. We may now lynch him if there is no better target, I am used to far more activity from him and he seems a bit more defensive/reserved then usual
On April 22 2016 07:01 gumshoe wrote:
Sl should have posted more by now / : for..... Reasons I am not supposed to say exist.
On April 22 2016 07:14 gumshoe wrote:
I kinda get the feel sl doesn't care about this game, normally when you have scum mates your kinda invested / : as you let down your team when you scrub it up.
Ff is the better choice methinks.
This is an interesting progression - first we have a reason to scumread him and then a poor reason to townread him. Checking thread sentiment along with the votes, this does make gumshoe look very poor, I know FF and Tictock did call him out for this.
On April 25 2016 07:26 gumshoe wrote:
I'm here XD there are children over that need distractions, but I'm here, I'm not at all crazy about the dyh lynch, I haven't gotten the chance to read him that much, but I guess it beats dying?
I know he eventually voted DYH but there are a few things between the partners that look weird to scummy here.
Very late, but I have to adjourn here. Not sure how much time I will have to play tomorrow, but will try my best.
Things that make gumshoe look bad - the read progression on sicklucker day 1 (see above) in conjunction with the votes. There is also some dialogue from DYH that indicates partner talk as also indicated above.
Shape doesn't have much going in his favour either, save the harder push from DYH, but I'm still finding more ATM from an associative reads standpoint on gumshoe. Not fully complete on gumshoe, but so far this is where I'm at.
Good night.
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10/40
On May 03 2016 16:38 Koshi wrote:
@gumshoe Vote Shape
@HTS Vote Shape
At this moment in time, I think it's gumshoe, tbh, but I will switch because I think I see what you are trying to do.
I know your position and why, but I will continue reading filters during my breaks to be sure.
I'm in a business conference all day again today and I have a client dinner after that will run me into EoD, I will probably not be available in the hours leading up to the end of the game.
Shape if you are town, PLEASE STEP IT UP.
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On May 03 2016 20:44 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2016 20:25 Koshi wrote:Shape who was 0 effort this game said this about a mafia: On April 22 2016 01:10 Shapelog wrote:DYH: Nothing I am seeing is making think he is town or scum. The sheeping thing caught my eye, but makes sense if HTS is his top town read. Would like to see more out of him. Also his opinion on LS, since LS is the main one pushing Sky, his top town read.
SaltShaker Kinda debating putting him in the scum lean cat. (I did) I would expect him to do more after saying most people are going to wait to post (his 3rd post.) Also this post really doesn't give much if you look at it: Dont want to lynch Ls hes so cute and trying hard
Ticktock is looking really strong
I do want to lynch koshi but hes probably town. Not sure I can do another koshi game
Gum probably town from what I know about him
FF was not even in the top 3 people for wasting posts early so im not sure why hes being attacked.
Hts seems over defensive but maybe thats just the koshi factor
wish I could read shapelogs posts but luckily he does not have one
I want to lynch gb a lil for this posts A lot of his town reads aren't really explained (TT) and just feels rushed in a way. He is kinda avoids a read on 3 people (talks about FF, but doesn't actually really gives a read, more so on the threads interaction on FF) (HTS statement was pretty none positional) (and I have really no clue what he means on mine lol) He also doesn't seem to go after anyone other than GB. And focuses on GB on his next post. Which is pretty impressive. After he gave that list post he did nothing to push either sl or figure out DYH their alignment though. But turned it miraculously around and he voted mafia sl on D1. Impressive once more. But looking at his post he kinda was looking to get off him. Why? On April 22 2016 06:41 Shapelog wrote:
##Vote: Sicklucker
My reasoning in my list + Still not being here
Might not stay, (as I am still looking at things) but is where my heart is. On April 22 2016 07:10 Shapelog wrote:Hmmm. I do not understand why FF was open to a HTS vote.On April 21 2016 07:10 Fecalfeast wrote:On April 21 2016 07:06 Damdred wrote:On April 21 2016 07:04 Fecalfeast wrote:
LS you're using so many posts just trying to discredit what people say about you rather than trying to find scum. And this is different than every other game how? Anyway I'm going to hedge on hts now until tommorow. It is bothering me sl is getting so little attention especially with his lack of try hard as s um lately. You're right, it's been a while I guess. I'll never pass up a chance to lynch SL, especially if he's being lazy  On April 22 2016 01:47 Fecalfeast wrote:
I would like to vote and lynch sicklucker if he doesn't come back. HTS you're giving me weird tone feels right now it feels like you're talking down to everyone but maybe that's just me having only been awake 10 minutes He hasn't come back. So logic says that SL should be his lynched for today. On April 22 2016 06:04 Fecalfeast wrote:
Pssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
##vote sicklucker
frig off damdred On April 22 2016 06:42 Fecalfeast wrote:
I would vote HTS Even though he did have sus. towards HTS. i do not understand why he thinks another vote without giving reasoning behind it. FF basically said "no show = vote" yet he is still looking at other lynches. It feels a bit opportunistic, and is really concerning if Sl gets lynched and flips scum. I feel like the first few posts was just him talking to talk, but now his person is getting lynched (other than LS, which by the time he posted the sky comment, was still before he went with damdred.) ↑ please watch how FF was voting fecalfeast. The same person Shape thought was mafia. But for some reason right after voting sl, Shape goes attack the person who wants to vote sl with him. On April 22 2016 07:16 Shapelog wrote:
Saltshaker, you finally decided to show up. Just 30 mins roughly from deadline.
Yay....
Prob. my 4/5 post or w/e ↑ Tinfoil (mafia talking to each other) BUT There is also no actual attempt from Shape to read sl. Just this. Strange when Shape was scumreading sl?
And D2 he again ended on mafia!! Impressive once more.
And D3 he did nothing because there was 0 pressure. Pushed the GB a bit but didn't put his hearth really into it. Also pushed another town lynch in TT already. Just doing what is needed. Blending in and making the right cases on the right people.
For D4 he didn't even vote. Which is not normal for Shape. I do believe he has really problems connecting to the internet but I also think that as town he would find a way to show his commitment to solving the game and wouldn't get catched by internet failure. Probably voted his scumread when he entered the thread. etc etc. The guy is just playing reactionary D3 and D4 and is getting rewarded for it by dumbass shit townreads that people give him. I never understood why people townread him. Both HTS and gumshoe and this TW. And GB. Only TT was skeptical and said he was probably town because the mafia spewed him town. Which was exactly my read on Shape but some dumbasses lynched TT and some other dumbasses didn't vote. But w.e that happened.
D5 more nothing. Just get him lynched. Last 3 cycles it is mafia riding to victory because town is fucking retarded to the maximum.
Gumshoe. Read this fucking case carefully. And tell me why the fuck you want to lynch somebody who wrote 5 billion words over Shape. Who has no real reason to be town except GAME FUCKING RELATED EVENTS. While HTS was pushed by SL While HTS made a shitton of questionable post. (which at that amount could come from town trying to solve over mafia trying to hide) While HTS is really trying to solve the game. day after day. point 1: zero effort- hyperbole. point 2: seems like your muddling this up, but yeah, just seems like derp to me. If dude knew if ff was going to flip green he would not have voted ff at the last sec. the end. point 3: shape is not a pushy player and he wasnt leading town sentiment, he was probs just lazy/realistic. Like I blatantly defended sl that day, so my criteria for scummy regarding this lynch is "who was afraid to look bad" and shape def doesnt fall into that category. point 4: you vaguely brush over how he lands on mafia and treat this as a scum point... gonna need more than that. point 5: if hts is the final scummer, we can assume he was having a hard time pushing as no one was actually scum XD which may very well explain his hesitance, for proof though I was also busy, I was frustrated with the situation as well making the game hard to play at all. point 6: I didnt vote due to a combination of gb disappointment and work, that shows there is a precedent for a townie showcasing this behaviors ether way therefore it is null. point 7: of course a player will look reactionary when they dont really know who scum is (ie scum is one of thier hard town reads) point 8: read it carefully. point 9: we've already explained hts's behavior, 1: it's her last game she wants to win 2: her scum team is beneath her skill level so she can buss if need be 3: Shes generally skilled and active as ethier side. Shape may very well just be a shit townie, we def have lots of those always. point 10: Hts was only pushed by sl once she started pushing him(around when he looked like the lynch) she eventually voted off him, and he voted off her FOR LITERALLY NO GIVEN REASON ON TO YOU. 11: Post day 2, hts does not have to play scummy, she just has to not die. 12: As we said, last game, usually active, nai.
12/40
Phoneposting from here on out so bear with me.
First things first. Yes I'll confirm it's my last game. This isn't alignment indicative obviously.
Second Koshi, I thought you were aiming to put pressure on Shapelog like you did FF day 1 to just play/do something in mylo but I'll say this.
I'll sum up my reasoning for preferring voting gumshoe in a few bullet points if you don't want to read or read my filter
1 taking several things out of context in my gameplay, even in this last post there are several leaps of logic he is making
2 associative reads (my last long post) are showing a stronger correlation between him vs shape
3 day 1 play more specifically the read progression on sicklucker in conjunction with his voting day 1 indicates he is saving his scum teammate sicklucker
Additionally what he is doing is taking a fear read (saying I'm active and a good player as either alignment) and using it amongst other points to justify why it could only be me who is mafia
Another example of that is how he used/analysed the nk wifom.
Additionally he puts me on a team based on an interaction that could come from either alignment without considering the additional interactions I've had with those players.
4 the manner in which he voted me from the off in mylo is probably the most suspicious thing to me given his justification and his subsequent explanation for saying that I could convince Koshi to lynch him makes zero sense based on
- Koshi's repeated lynch preference between Shape and myself
- Koshi's and my repeated difficulty in working together all game
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13/40
Shapelog, why you are wasting time on Koshi, fuck if I knew. He isn't and should not get lynched. Gumshoe and I are not voting him.
What are your thoughts on my case against gumshoe, or his points on me?
You said you were catching up on our filters, did you have any thoughts there?
If you are town, this line of play is quite frustrating from you.
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EPT
