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On March 25 2016 06:49 ritoky wrote:
because i don't think you have the stones to claim not town as mafia that early into the game and then do some weirdly bad rescindy stuff. i mean it is in my filter in a spoiler on a big reads post.
Superbia isn't a coward as scum and you don't even need any stones to do that. It is completely nai.
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On March 25 2016 06:56 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 06:52 justanothertownie wrote:
I think I said that I wouldn't lynch slam very soon. Ritoky still deserves a lot of suspicion for making a play that only helps mafia. I would love to lynch Ritoky, but his play was so terrible I can't believe a scum would make it... Or am I being double fooled here, JAT?
As long as you get away with it it is not a terrible play as mafia. And ritoky is known for making plays.
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On March 25 2016 06:57 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 06:38 Rels wrote:
ritoky could you lay out exactly what town benefits you were going for with your plan ? i spelled it out multiple times, but sure. i am vt, i know nothing about the setup since it is closed. i have been in closed setups that are basically the same as a normal game and closed setups with 20 players, 19 of which are roles or mafia. i wanted to gauge the nature of how many PRs were in the game while locating all the VTs and narrowing down my potential mafia greatly. so i angle shot using the name of the role, assuming all town roles are named the same thing and that mafia either didn't get fake role pms or were too careless to reference them and understand what i was doing before it was already too late. the goal was to utilize the picture of the expedition, have people understand it, realize expedition was also in their role pm, and start forming a coalition of townies who understood we were all town based on the understanding of the expedition. from there you have a large block of people who identify eachother as near lock town and there is a vast amount of control over the day phase because of it as well as a smaller pool of people for potentially mafia. it forces mafia into an awkward spot where they have to choose to not PR hunt and leave PRs alive thus costing them a great deal or leave this large block of semi-confirmed townies alive and concede a ton of day phase control. the mafia lose something large either way. i think it is a pretty well devised plan, apparently i am alone.
But here is the problem:
You as an experienced players should not assume that mafia has no fakeclaims or knowledge about roles. Especially when 2 of the most experienced people of the community are hosting. It is really hard to believe.
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On March 25 2016 07:03 ritoky wrote:
i mean very often i don't even read the fake claims in my QT, especially right away at the start of the game when there's a lot more shit to worry about as mafia than your list of fake claims. most players, myself included, from my experience only reference them when needed.
Once they realize that you are testing them which you outed extremely early btw. they just look it up. The result is that you tell mafia who is blue and learn nothing yourself.
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On March 25 2016 07:11 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:06 justanothertownie wrote:On March 25 2016 07:03 ritoky wrote:
i mean very often i don't even read the fake claims in my QT, especially right away at the start of the game when there's a lot more shit to worry about as mafia than your list of fake claims. most players, myself included, from my experience only reference them when needed. Once they realize that you are testing them which you outed extremely early btw. they just look it up. The result is that you tell mafia who is blue and learn nothing yourself. agree to disagree. i will defend that plan as really good in and outside the game, and even if it gets me lynched. i agree with you my execution was bad, the picture was too unclear of communication, and i got antsy and should have held silent longer. i also think the plan was so poorly executed that it isn't devastating or even detrimental like you seem to think. if executed properly i think it is a massive town sided swing. if you disagree on the EV i dunno, we just disagree about gameplay.
Yes, I disagree. It doesn't make sense in theory and it also doesn't work in reality. People tried the same in assassination which lead to batsnacks (?) believing I was confirmed town even after I had already openly claimed scum.
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On March 25 2016 07:13 Rels wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2016 08:45 ritoky wrote:On March 24 2016 08:21 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky come out of the shadows and show me your true colours. damdred is probably not VT, burgeoning on almost certainly not. you might be VT. Show nested quote +On March 24 2016 08:54 ritoky wrote:On March 24 2016 08:47 LightningStrike wrote:On March 24 2016 08:45 ritoky wrote:On March 24 2016 08:21 Superbia wrote:
Ritoky come out of the shadows and show me your true colours. damdred is probably not VT, burgeoning on almost certainly not. you might be VT. Hmm the bolded seems kinda weird. Why can't he be VT? re LS: assuming a conclusion before asking for clarification, bad mindset. potentially mafia mindset. re damdred: his reaction to my role claim makes him unlikely VT. i don't usually post pictures without a point or for a laugh. no further thoughts. Why did you post these 1h30 after the picture ?
Good question. This fits a "gonna confirm myself as town to those idiots" mindset much better than the mindset ritoky claims.
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On March 25 2016 07:22 ritoky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:19 Kurumi wrote:On March 25 2016 07:15 ritoky wrote:
holy fuck it was not badly thought out. screw everyone who thinks so. that plan is really fucking good. execution dumpster tier? yes. but that plan is amazing, will defend it to no end. do not give any fucks. You do know that hard setups like to have additional conditional KP? Like Assassins? You could've put us into a quite a pickle. who cares if 2 blues die if you have idk....8 semi-confirmed townies operating as a voting block.....do you seriously undervalue townies knowing with 95% certainty who eachother are that much...just absolutely mindblowing.... people are so opposed to making plays for terrible reasons and they are eeyores about it on top of it.
There is no 95 % certainity. This can never happen.
On March 25 2016 07:26 Tubesock wrote:
Ritoky is arguing why communism is such a great idea on paper.
Only that his plan isn't any good on paper.
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On March 25 2016 07:39 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:27 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2016 07:26 Tubesock wrote:
Ritoky is arguing why communism is such a great idea on paper. communism is not good on paper. socialism is good on paper. Same same. You earlier town read Sicklucker. Can you elaborate? Maybe Obi also. I guess in one of your last lists you had SL above Vivax who fell for town reads (you didn't like his reads?) and then Obi as mid tier town. Anyway, taking away the blue hunting I think Ritoky is town. And I do believe him about his plan. This isn't to say I trust him, but he's not going to be on the D1 lynch list. I like the Sandroba plynch. ##Vote: Sandroba
This is a pathetic copout vote.
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Like there is 0 reason to vote sandroba right now. It doesn't achieve anything.
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On March 25 2016 07:49 Tumblewood wrote:
Jat, do you believe that making plays that don't help town only comes from scum?
Obviously not. Otherwise I would be yelling to lynch ritoky by now. But I think healthy scepticism is appropriate when a player that is usually good with mechanics and also a very bold and competent mafia player makes such a play. And for me it is more what rels pointed out earlier. Ritoky didn't even try to use this disaster in a towny way. He started with outing someone he thought might be blue and tried to confirm himself instead of actually looking for other VT like he claimed.
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On March 25 2016 07:57 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:33 Kurumi wrote:On March 25 2016 07:26 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2016 07:24 Kurumi wrote:
Wait why 8? cuz i picked a random fucking large number Is it really that huge? 21 players total. 4 probably Mafia. 17 players left. 8 players believe that they are Town. You still have 9 Townies not sharing that sentiment. That's excluding possible 3rd party shenanigans and different Mafia size (I could see it being 5 even). It does not seem that huge. Because it is 8 players analysing 13 players, you are much more likely to down or out a blue. This would probably result in last minute switch shenanigans and disorder. This would lead to Mafia having even more information. In that 8, you could have three Mafia who figured out that it is a good idea to get on that Ford Wave and now you have 5 townies believing strongly that 3 players are Townie, but are actually Mafia. Mafia creates lynch after lynch, blue blood is the last sight of the day, blue blood is the first sight of the day and since this setup is about being careful, I don't see it being good. Wait hold on. I am going to use this 8 logic here because i am confused now. + Show Spoiler +So Best case would turn it into 8 v 13 right? Let say about 5 roles are 3rd party/mafia So 8 v 8 v 5.....
Mafia would have some kinda of KP so they would shot into the 8 vt;s or whatever, let say 3rd is a kill role.
So each night 2 of the confirm townies die, or they shot into the suspect pool.
The 8 blue roles would then check eachother/use their power on the other people (assuming they have a power). Well, Instantly, a tracker/watcher would be fuck over because any person they check would go somewhere. The only way to get a good track is to track to a death. All the other ones are useless because they can't determine anything. They only have a 2/25 chance (N1) of catching scum. And they can still be vig technically.
But lets say it was 10 or something 10 v 11 -> 10 vs 6 vs 5, Blue roles have to cover less people. But that is still 10 other people a invest blue role has to either check or track. Not to mention that any of the 10 vt's could be shot theoretically (scum/3rd party killer would pick high value targets) And this is not meationing if the roles are not trackable or watchable.
Then Physiologically, some invest blue roles might check the vt to make sure they are vt's. thus wasting a check.
I guess the protection and vet roles would be fine/in a better spot.
idk about what would happen if you than make everyone out of the circle claim. Eh it not that great when i look at it like this.
Are you 2 seriously arguing over the completely irrelevant math of a number ritoky obviously just made up to prove his point? Wtf.
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On March 25 2016 08:00 Superbia wrote:
JAT, what do you think of the people pushing on gumshoe pre-slam-shot. Scum in there?
Possible. I don't think there is something inherently wrong with pushing gumshoe early though. His first post WAS really bad. I wouldn't scumread anyone only for this.
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On March 25 2016 08:01 Damdred wrote:
On the plus side the pool for the lynch today is still kinda small.
JAT what do you think of rels?
I am always careful about rels. But he made some good observations so far so I wouldn't lynch him today.
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On March 25 2016 08:06 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:59 justanothertownie wrote:On March 25 2016 07:57 Shapelog wrote:On March 25 2016 07:33 Kurumi wrote:On March 25 2016 07:26 ritoky wrote:On March 25 2016 07:24 Kurumi wrote:
Wait why 8? cuz i picked a random fucking large number Is it really that huge? 21 players total. 4 probably Mafia. 17 players left. 8 players believe that they are Town. You still have 9 Townies not sharing that sentiment. That's excluding possible 3rd party shenanigans and different Mafia size (I could see it being 5 even). It does not seem that huge. Because it is 8 players analysing 13 players, you are much more likely to down or out a blue. This would probably result in last minute switch shenanigans and disorder. This would lead to Mafia having even more information. In that 8, you could have three Mafia who figured out that it is a good idea to get on that Ford Wave and now you have 5 townies believing strongly that 3 players are Townie, but are actually Mafia. Mafia creates lynch after lynch, blue blood is the last sight of the day, blue blood is the first sight of the day and since this setup is about being careful, I don't see it being good. Wait hold on. I am going to use this 8 logic here because i am confused now. + Show Spoiler +So Best case would turn it into 8 v 13 right? Let say about 5 roles are 3rd party/mafia So 8 v 8 v 5.....
Mafia would have some kinda of KP so they would shot into the 8 vt;s or whatever, let say 3rd is a kill role.
So each night 2 of the confirm townies die, or they shot into the suspect pool.
The 8 blue roles would then check eachother/use their power on the other people (assuming they have a power). Well, Instantly, a tracker/watcher would be fuck over because any person they check would go somewhere. The only way to get a good track is to track to a death. All the other ones are useless because they can't determine anything. They only have a 2/25 chance (N1) of catching scum. And they can still be vig technically.
But lets say it was 10 or something 10 v 11 -> 10 vs 6 vs 5, Blue roles have to cover less people. But that is still 10 other people a invest blue role has to either check or track. Not to mention that any of the 10 vt's could be shot theoretically (scum/3rd party killer would pick high value targets) And this is not meationing if the roles are not trackable or watchable.
Then Physiologically, some invest blue roles might check the vt to make sure they are vt's. thus wasting a check.
I guess the protection and vet roles would be fine/in a better spot.
idk about what would happen if you than make everyone out of the circle claim. Eh it not that great when i look at it like this. Are you 2 seriously arguing over the completely irrelevant math of a number ritoky obviously just made up to prove his point? Wtf. I only made one post on this, no idea why Shape brought it up, the thing that stroke me the most was that ritoky thought 8 players is huge, while it is not. BTW JAT, there is one thing I like about sandroba lynch: past experience with scum in Storm 1. RebirthOfLegend went MIA, I believe on Day 2, because we thought he'd be modkilled on the basis of lack of activity, but more seriously because of playing against wincon of either side, we lynched someone else. He lived on, even posted very fast after the lynch happened. He was the Mafia Poisoner. There is a world where sandroba is a red role and just wants to survive the D1, but I think sandroba has enough time to prove us wrong if he chooses to pop into the thread in like, even 12 hours. I won't support the sandy lynch right now, I just wanted to say that there was a play concerning "afk" mafia in the first Storm Mafia and because of lack of activity requirements we need to keep an eye on that.
I am well aware that we need to be less lenient on activity this game and that scum sandro is prone to lurk like a bitch. But if we want to policy him we can do that before deadline. The ideal case would be that we have a vig who can kill him in the night because if we really waste a lynch on sandro we won't gain any information regardless of his flip.
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On March 25 2016 08:07 Shapelog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 07:50 Kurumi wrote:On March 25 2016 07:29 Shapelog wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Damm i pick like the worse time to leave. Can someone tell me why the plan was bad? I thought the execution could of been better but i liked the concept. Jesus I've been leaving you and your "Kurumi is X." Some posts later "Kurumi is Y." later: "Hey Dude, do you think Kurumi is more of a X or more of a Z?", are you able to make your goddamn mind about anything without the help of others? It feels like you are trying the ground everytime you do post a read. You feel very insecure and for a person with such contrary opinion to the current state of the thread your defense of ritoky is very weak. What is good about the concept? You agree that execution was bad, but why and why would it point to ritoky Town? IIRC i didn't do the bolded. Tube questioned me about it and i said i would look back at your posts. I thought the concept was good because it would theoretically make a good town circle if it worked. I didn't take into the account of what happens to the blue roles and how it would play out (I should of). I think rik is town because he tried to make a play that would help town in his opinion. Why would scum put that much attention on themselves? to snag some blue roles? I admit the excuation was awful because of Calling Damdred blue/scum, thus giving away any benefits it might have. Also if it was a mafia play, i think it would of been thought out more and he wouldn't out it. I feel like he hasn't really plan for a response to this mess, which would make since if he is town.
I think we can all agree that ritoky thought it would get him townread regardless of his alignment, no?
On March 25 2016 08:08 Superbia wrote:
All right, now that I have both your attention I want to continue the train of thought.
Everyone kind of agrees that gumshoe's post was somewhat scummy, and that it was an easy scum-push regardless of alignment. So I'm inclined to believe that -a- scum would pile on the push. Agreed?
This seems like an arbitrary claim without a solid foundation to me.
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On March 25 2016 08:17 Superbia wrote:
It is somewhat arbitrary JAT, but gumshoe flipping green is the most relevant info we have right now.
Give me something concrete and I might give you an opinion. Assuming something random is not how I work.
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On March 25 2016 08:23 Superbia wrote:
Rso didn't care for the gumshoe wagon. Neither did JAT or Rels iirc.
Of course I didn't. I didn't think he was particularly scummy or towny (he also did not post anything interesting at all) and it was really early in the day. Also pushing gumshoe is always a good thing since he tends to lose interest in the game pretty quickly otherwise.
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On March 25 2016 08:32 Superbia wrote:
Also I'm going to make a wild calculated guess and say that one between Rels and JAT is 3rd party.
Ah, I see we are at it again with the arbitrary unfounded claims.
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On March 25 2016 08:37 Superbia wrote:
I actually feel super good about my circles right now. Just don't have a straight up mafia I want to push. Like Tumblewood/Damdred would be okay-ish but I'd rather keep my vote on rso and see where that brings us?
Thoughts anyone?
I still don't really see why rsoultin would be mafia for the things she posted but she definitely lacks presence by now. Do what you want - I will go for a run and then I will try to sleep.
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On March 25 2016 08:42 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2016 08:39 justanothertownie wrote:On March 25 2016 08:37 Superbia wrote:
I actually feel super good about my circles right now. Just don't have a straight up mafia I want to push. Like Tumblewood/Damdred would be okay-ish but I'd rather keep my vote on rso and see where that brings us?
Thoughts anyone? I still don't really see why rsoultin would be mafia for the things she posted but she definitely lacks presence by now. Do what you want - I will go for a run and then I will try to sleep. That's fine. Can we pretend we're both town for the rest of today and see where that brings us? May help me on your alignment.
Sure.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.picgifs.com/reaction-gifs/reaction-gifs/doctor-who/picgifs-doctor-who-1169155.gif)
