EPTStar Wars: The Mafia Awaken - Page 100
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 09 2016 00:49 VayneAuthority wrote: Then explain to me why he is trying to ride this palmar cred into the sunset and then some one that voted BEFORE him is scummy and im not even trying to get any palmar cred, i literally dont give a shit. I just vote what I think and thats it like ive always done. And then when you try to reason with him he just says "no, you're stupid" and leaves. If that's town I really can't see myself ever getting along with him. Not really. I made a few points as to why I think your vote is scummy. I also showed other points unrelated to the Palmar vote early on day 1 where I think you could be scum. It's not just the vote honestly. The order of the votes doesn't matter. I explained twice now why I felt your vote was inorganic. And when I looked at the votes it's not impossible to conceive that one of the four scum members couldn't have been on Palmar's wagon. I had been townreading everyone on the wagon except you and Zyrre. I don't think 3+ members of a 4-man scumteam would be all on the Zyrre wagon. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On February 07 2016 08:18 disformation wrote: Zyrre (8): darthfoley, nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred, marvellosity, Palmar (7): justanothertownie (1): VayneAuthority (1):MoosyDoosy nooniansoong (0): NocturneMage (0), ritoky (0): Onegu (0):, Disformation (0): MoosyDoosy (0): Okay. Was looking at these a bit more. Palmar wagon As I said before: scum very probably doesn't want to be all stuck on the same train. So especially if palmar is town there should be at least 1 scummer on palmar. UNLESS it is really MD+Onegu +2 ppl on the Zyrre train which is possible. The three ppl voting Palmar that are not conf. from my pov are: NM, Rels and VA. NM: I wouldn't put it past him to make a case on Palmar D1 and try to get him lynched as scum. That is also an incredibly scary tinfoil. On the other hand I really am not able to legit scum read him. So I think he is town (for now). Rels: not having looked too close at Rels, yet. Should probably do this, since his scum game is pretty good. But on the other hand he has done nothing that screams town to me either. Actually he scum read both of zyrre and palmar and I am not 100% sure why he decided to prefer a palmar lynch. Though skimming his filter his approach to the game looks rather town. VA: his vote is nice and early, but he seemed very not invested into this. Only mention of zyrre is that the zyrre lynch seems too easy. So yeah this vote does not look great. Especially if Palmar is town. Zyrre wagon town lean on darthfoley. TR on marv. if koshi is scum probably not for this vote. cause jat and marv said so. leaves me with the trio of nooniansoong, Chezinu, boxerfred. No good read on any of those three tbh. Hope we have some investigation roles for those tbh. But I can easily see 2 scummers in there, especially if Palmar is scum. Whoever replaces in for Onegu has some huge town rainbows to plant into the thread. Actually @ rels: what made you vote palmar over zyrre? | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 09 2016 00:54 Rels wrote: Like, this comment is aggressive for nothing. What part? Do you think it's reasonable to townread Koshi for "how the game played out and we have a lot of good players he doesn't feel the need to do much?" That is the part I was pointing out as a poor read. I usually bold things like that. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
In Dark Tournament town!NM was pretty emotionally invested in lynching scum!HtS and later went pretty close to yelling at town!Trfel and going on tilt over that. Sample size is too small to verify if he does so as scum too. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:19 disformation wrote: NM can be pretty emotional. Not sure if that is AI for him though. In Dark Tournament town!NM was pretty emotionally invested in lynching scum!HtS and later went pretty close to yelling at town!Trfel and going on tilt over that. Sample size is too small to verify if he does so as scum too. thanks, i've only read a few of NM's posts scattered across a couple of games and didn't realise this was the case, so it's actually quite helpful | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500060-newbie-student-mafia-xviii?user=NocturneMage&view=all (scum game) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500627-outlaw-mini-mafia?user=NocturneMage&view=all (town game) In his scum game he is more clean and logical than in his town game. It's mostly a feeling, you should read the filters by yourself to see what I mean. Like, I couldn't find any examples of him being aggressive in his scum game. Here are a few examples from the town game: On January 04 2016 01:50 NocturneMage wrote: This is an open setup? Read the OP much? And people have mentioned both rolecop/rolechecker in pre-game/early game in putting the setup together. Are you smoking weed or something? On January 06 2016 00:42 NocturneMage wrote: That is horrible scumtastic reasoning to suggest that Slam should not be voted. [blablabla] On January 08 2016 00:29 NocturneMage wrote: (1) GF hasn't flipped (2) Damdred and at least one other person wanted more reads from me (3) several debating OWS doesn't hurt to tell others where my head is pay attention pls In addition I've found these in the town game, that are awfully similar to this game's excitement to lynch Palmar: On January 05 2016 07:52 NocturneMage wrote: THERE IS RESISTANCE TO THE SLAM/PALMAR LYNCHES. GEE I WONDER WHY...... On January 05 2016 07:59 NocturneMage wrote: SWITCH TO SLAM 2 MINUTES!!!!!! So I think his aggressive comments are town indicative. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:20 marvellosity wrote: thanks, i've only read a few of NM's posts scattered across a couple of games and didn't realise this was the case, so it's actually quite helpful + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbmoWu4CAAAB_E9.jpg) If you are trying to buddy me it is working. =D | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
(1) There was no mention of Palmar anywhere in your filter prior to your vote. Marv had been probing Palmar quite a bit and voted 5 hours prior to your vote. (2) AFAIK, you were not sheeping a townread or anything like that. The basis for your vote was unrelated to the interactions with marv/Palmar/etc. Just because you voted before me doesn't make you any more townier. To be fair, I could not play most of the first half of day 1, and because I was not present in thread with Palmar, I had to use different criteria to evaluate him (as opposed to my interactions, of course there were none). Even then my case on Palmar was roughly 3 hours before marv's vote on Palmar. + Show Spoiler [Focus on timestamps] + On February 05 2016 15:45 NocturneMage wrote: Why I have a bad feeling Palmar could be mafia Palmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. - In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed - Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so) - Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026 Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong. Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing. From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above. On February 05 2016 20:01 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote ##Vote Palmar First mention of Palmar in your filter - On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote: oh and ##vote: Palmar He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here On February 06 2016 00:40 VayneAuthority wrote: ##vote palmar That's the difference between my vote, and yours. Even though I didn't place the vote until after yours, you had zero mention of Palmar contentwise. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
that means i don't even have my tinfoil on NM anymore. Dude is extremely likely town on a Palmar mafia flip and still very likely town on a Palmar town flip. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:07 disformation wrote: Actually @ rels: what made you vote palmar over zyrre? I was very underwhelmed with Palmar Thursday night. I expressed it and he said he would do more the Friday. Since he did nothing, I voted him. I thought Zyrre was also scum though. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:28 Rels wrote: I was very underwhelmed with Palmar Thursday night. I expressed it and he said he would do more the Friday. Since he did nothing, I voted him. I thought Zyrre was also scum though. Yeah, you were scum reading both, hence my question. Also fair enough. | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
So by POE my VCA basically says that VA has a very high chance of being scum. Will look more into VA after the flip.  | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:24 NocturneMage wrote: Trfel told me something valuable in the Fullmetal postgame - it's not just the timing of your vote that counts - it's also the content and your involvement related to the vote. And on your (VA) end it was pretty minimal. (1) There was no mention of Palmar anywhere in your filter prior to your vote. Marv had been probing Palmar quite a bit and voted 5 hours prior to your vote. (2) AFAIK, you were not sheeping a townread or anything like that. The basis for your vote was unrelated to the interactions with marv/Palmar/etc. Just because you voted before me doesn't make you any more townier. To be fair, I could not play most of the first half of day 1, and because I was not present in thread with Palmar, I had to use different criteria to evaluate him (as opposed to my interactions, of course there were none). Even then my case on Palmar was roughly 3 hours before marv's vote on Palmar. + Show Spoiler [Focus on timestamps] + On February 05 2016 15:45 NocturneMage wrote: Why I have a bad feeling Palmar could be mafia Palmar - read the following games for a compare/contrast: Tropical Storm, Down Under 3, Generic Boring. - In Generic Boring, he was dead wrong everywhere but he was assertive as all hell, was n1ed - Tropical Storm, looks like one right read, one wrong one (Damdred/rsoultin) but here, he goes pushing rsoultin on voting record, and is adamant he knew when to drop a townread on someone/knowing whom to sheep, not seeing that here. Important because a number of people in reading this thread are saying "game is hard" to some extent. They all can't be mafia. A cursory look through Palmar's filter - no strong town reads (i.e. I would sheep so and so) - Down Under 3 - Here, another example of one of his "absolutist" posts. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/490661-mini-mafia-down-under-3?page=52#1026 Checking OP, all but one of these are wrong. Note: I purposely ignored PYP because a) it was a themed game b) multiple mafia teams The big contrast for me is tone. I'm seeing a lot of conditionals in this game (i.e. bf might be mafia), and a lot of absolutes in the above three games. Like he's so sure of himself even when he's wrong. The one thing I notice is his main involvement with JAT/marv/Koshi - two of which I'm townreading. Leads into the big contrast is his normal meta of lynching the inactives, the scummy players, etc. I'm looking for a push or even a trifle of anything against the sheer number of lower content players or even (almost universally?) scumread/discussed myself. Nothing. From Tropical Storm - and I know he applied this in PYP Finally I re-read his Outlaw Mafia filter for day 1 to refresh his day 1 scum play (go to his filter - read pages 1-3, day 1 ends at page 3) - and I'll be honest - his game so far here is a lot closer to his Day 1 play in Outlaw. I think people should read it - there's a lot of missing town tells that were present in the three games I discussed above. On February 05 2016 20:01 marvellosity wrote: ##unvote ##Vote Palmar First mention of Palmar in your filter - On February 06 2016 00:38 VayneAuthority wrote: oh and ##vote: Palmar He is supposed to be my day 1 antithesis, the pinnacle of good day 1 play. where is that here On February 06 2016 00:40 VayneAuthority wrote: ##vote palmar That's the difference between my vote, and yours. Even though I didn't place the vote until after yours, you had zero mention of Palmar contentwise. Find me games where I am invested in the lynch as either alignment, its null. That's my playstyle and many people here can attest to that. Conveniently you use meta for everyone else but not me, funny that is. Also you are putting words in my mouth, never said it makes me townie or anything. Literally could not care less about looking or being townie. I only play this game for one reason, to be right. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:32 disformation wrote: Also thinking Rels is town. So by POE my VCA basically says that VA has a very high chance of being scum. Will look more into VA after the flip. don't quit your day job with that analysis | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On February 09 2016 00:49 VayneAuthority wrote: Then explain to me why he is trying to ride this palmar cred into the sunset and then some one that voted BEFORE him is scummy and im not even trying to get any palmar cred, i literally dont give a shit. I just vote what I think and thats it like ive always done. And then when you try to reason with him he just says "no, you're stupid" and leaves. If that's town I really can't see myself ever getting along with him. The "Riding cred into the sunset" implies that I'm scum from your point of view. The "someone that voted before him is scummy and I'm not even trying to get any Palmar cred" is an implication for yourself that you are either town or more town than I am. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On February 09 2016 01:40 NocturneMage wrote: No VA, I'm not putting words into your mouth, you didn't say you were more townie, but you sure implied it. The "Riding cred into the sunset" implies that I'm scum from your point of view. The "someone that voted before him is scummy and I'm not even trying to get any Palmar cred" is an implication for yourself that you are either town or more town than I am. You are putting words in my mouth. I haven't once tried to leverage being not on the zyrre wagon as something that I shouldnt be lynched for, which is what you implied. Anyways go ahead and find me those games since you like using meta so much. its the crux of your argument that i wasnt invested in the lynch, should be easy to find games where I am right? | ||
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disformation
Germany8352 Posts
@NM: You said VA was pushing you D1 but dropped his read on you cause he couldnt get you lynched. Couldn't this possibly come from town and be a simple re-evaluation? I mean your first bunch of posts was not very good, so I can see that coming from town. :p Also fun fact: being biased and not approaching things from multiple angles is a scum tell for NM. =D | ||
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