Alternatively, Town Puppy has fewer than three completed games, and is therefore qualified for a newbie spot.
Newbie Student Mafia XIX
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Alternatively, Town Puppy has fewer than three completed games, and is therefore qualified for a newbie spot. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
much prefer /in open to /coach but will coach. realized i forgot to actually indicate intentions | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 21 2016 22:50 rsoultin wrote: /coach cause lexy said so ^^ Coach me. The cycle must be completed. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 25 2016 10:44 darthfoley wrote: I only asked because I just played in a game where it stayed almost completely civil throughout Palmar is a big softie. He's that old man at the park bench you see twice a week who gives you a little bit of good-natured shit about whatever it is you're talking about, and even on a bad day where you want to bitch him out about it, you don't, because you know he's just ribbin ya and he wants well for you. As for the site in general -- every game is as civil as you make it. Do your part and set a good example, and if you're interacting with most of the people in the thread, they'll clean it up. Worst case you just ignore the grumpykins who can't get their shit together and it still feels like a civil game in the end. Hope you roll town with me this time. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2016 03:21 LoneMeow wrote: _MexicanAlien, did you not receive the confirmation request PM? Lol called the fuck out sson | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2016 06:39 Onegu wrote: But serious Shape trying to meta read kush(nooninsong) before he even posts is weird as fuck. What exactly is weird about anything Shapelog did? Specifics please. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2016 11:01 nooniansoong wrote: pepperminttea has a zero percent chance of people male imo "neither does eden tbh" - kush 2014 | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
- Shapelog is obviously town, and the first thing I want to do when I get the motivation to read this game in detail (which will be tomorrow, hold me to this and don't let me be lazy) is to read the sequence of people scumreading him early while it was the "in" read to give, because I'm almost positive scum were involved in that. If I actually have to explain this (and if you need it explained, that's okay; newbie game and all), Shapelog's posting was very spontaneous and "error-prone" in the right way. As Onegu put it, "talking about someone's meta before they even post" is in fact a poor use of a townie's time, because you don't need to call attention to the idea that you have a way to read somebody based on meta. Just make the read in either direction when the trigger behavior you're waiting on manifests itself (or doesn't manifest itself when it should). But a post like that is never going to come from mafia. Mafia players don't think to themselves: "You know, I should post that I have a meta read on kush before he says anything. That will make me look more townie and advance my agenda." Because it doesn't. It's empty words. An excited townie, however, who is trying to get discussion started and generate meaningful data for themselves and other players to read, might be overeager and start talking about this tell before it manifests, because it's meaningful to them (even if it doesn't do anything yet). And if you read the rest of Shapelog's posts, eagerness and excitement are pretty reasonable descriptors of his emotional state as he plays. So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read. - Onegu is my current top suspect for a few okay-ish reasons: 1. Not recognizing Shapelog as obvious town. He talks about Shapelog's posts being weird, his posting direction as not helping town, blabla... ignores all the evidence pointing to the conclusion I just gave you from only skimming the thread, but then avoids giving a concrete read on Shapelog when the action is all centered on Shapelog during that sequence I mentioned at the beginning of this post (p13-14 I think is the right section, where Pepperminttea posted). I expect better from "tryhard Onegu" since I genuinely view the Shapelog read as trivially simple for an experienced player to make. 2. Unusually rigid policies for what is okay to use/discuss. This one's a little convoluted, but hopefully I'll make it clear. At several points during Onegu's interaction with Shapelog, there's these posts that basically say "You're doing X thing. X thing is A Bad Thing. Don't do X thing." Referring to some aspects of scumhunting that are variably useful: metagame reading (sometimes great, sometimes bad), setup spec discussion (same), self-meta (granted, this one is pretty bad always). And he's not wrong when he says them. Shapelog's attempted use of metagame reading of kush was not very productive, and setup spec posting is pretty bad in this setup (which I'll explain in a bit). And there's even a conflating motivator here -- Onegu is an experienced player in a newbie game, so you could argue he feels an impetus to steer the newbies toward more "proper" scumhunting avenues. But the lack of explanation bothers me a lot, especially given that the things he discusses are variably useful and not clearly always bad. Like he says to stop posting about blues, because it only helps mafia. In this case, it's true: since the mafia know the whole setup, the only thing that can really come from the town discussing the setup is blues accidentally slipping up and making clear that they have extra knowledge of the game state (and thus outing blues to mafia). (Mafia can slip in the same way, but it's hard for townies to distinguish whether the slip is blue or red in nature, and besides, mafia tend to be much more careful about their known information; so it's rare for mafia to slip and much more common for blues to do it, making it bad for town.) ^^ See how easy that explanation was? 3-4 lines. But Onegu doesn't even do that, he just says "this is bad don't do it." It belies the "Onegu is trying to help the newbies get better" explanation, since you would expect an explanation for why something is bad if you're trying to get better by having people tell you something is bad. As such it reads less like "Onegu trying to help the townies" and more like "Onegu trying to jam up potentially useful (from the standpoint of getting town reads) discussion under the guise of being helpful to newbies." - kush already seems several orders of magnitude more invested than he was in Unoriginal, where he was mafia. And he made the point I did about Shapelog, and made it first, while people were trying to twist it into a scummy thing for Shapelog to be eager and talking a lot. Early TR for him. - darthfoley seems much more relaxed and spontaneous than he was in Unoriginal, where he was mafia. He also had a couple of salient points he made that I've forgotten and don't care to look up right now. Early TR here as well. TL;DR: - Shapelog solid town - kush, darth early tr's - Onegu scummy - There's probably a mafia among the "Shapelog is scummy" crowd from p13-14 | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2016 16:11 darthfoley wrote: Welcome to the thread Eden Hello! I won't be here too much longer for tonight. But it'd be impolite not to say hi! | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
(editor's note: this post turned out not to be very helpful, but I'm leaving it for posterity, so the reason why we won't need to discuss setup much this game is clearly spelled out for anyone with questions about it) Mafia know the whole setup. This means that they will know if we have a doctor or not. Weird nightkills can possibly be explained by medic dodging. Note that this is only useful in the event of a role claim and probably isn't very useful then. If you're a power role, be careful about setup discussion, and ideally say nothing at all. You have extra info about the game state and that may lead you to say something you "shouldn't" know (if you were VT). Obviously counterclaim if you have to do that, but in general, you're probably better off just not talking about it. In point of fact, talking about the setup at all is not very useful. The mafia likely won't do anything too stupid with their fakeclaims (if they even fakeclaim) and they know what they have to play around, and it's not like we can make use of any implications from scum behavior (medic dodging), since the mafia are unlikely to make a demonstrably false fakeclaim. I don't mind that people were trying to glean info out of it before; I think it's probably a townie thing to do. But there's nothing useful in setup speculation this go-round, so I strongly advise against it. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 27 2016 16:36 Onegu wrote: 1. Why does this make me scummy. I am better than you and can make next level reads you cannot. And the fact that you want to call him basically confirmed town at this point is so fucking random. 2. Why is this AI at all. Ill give you a hint it isnt. Why the fuck do I have to be the one to explain things. If they want to take my word for something without putting critical thinking into things thats on them not me. Me just saying things makes them have to think if what I am saying is correct or not. Im not here to hold their hands. I am here to tell them they are newbies. And then find scum. You are going on about me saying things then you go and feel the need to then explain what I already said is correct? Then scum read me for not being helpful enough? Boring. Please let me know when you're ready to drop the tough guy charade and play mafia. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Goodnight. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
1. He literally responds to my claim that Shapelog is an easy town read with "I'm better than you and capable of making next-level reads you can't make," while not having a read on Shapelog either way. He attempts to leverage some kind of perceived skill advantage to shoot down my opinion, but he gives no meaningful comment on whether he actually disagrees with the opinion or not (calling it "so fucking random" isn't meaningful). It's another angle Onegu appears to want to use to shut down various lines of discussion, but when he doesn't even seem to have a line of discussion he wants to pursue, what good is that for anybody? 2. He essentially says here that he isn't shutting down various lines of discussion to help guide newbies. He just wants to call people bad and then find scum. If you're an astute reader -- indeed, a reader at all -- you will notice that Onegu has only satisfied the "call people bad" half of that. No scum reads -- barely anything that would be considered a read at all. Where you at Onegu? If you're being such a try hard scum killer this game why is it that all I see from you is shouting newbies down and no reads? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
And you named mex and tea reads just now but said nothing to that effect in the post. If anything you implied mex was scum. Your comments on tea and tumbleweed weren't clearly indicative of any opinion. Do you care to explain these discrepancies? | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 01:31 Onegu wrote: Trfel 100% scum. Confirmed now. You are welcome. maybe you can be town after all | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I'll catch up from the start in a couple hours. There's an awful lot of directionless posting though. Chief offender seemed to be Trfel (which is why I liked Onegu's confident statement that Trfel is scum) but he's not alone. Peoe please think through a damn point and make sure it's relevant to finding mafia before you post. This site is replete with players who vomit every thought they have into the thread regardless of how useful it is, don't be like that. Thanks. More substantive stuff in a while. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
I think my plan right now is to lynch Trfel instead of Onegu. I think my earlier arguments about Onegu were reasonable, and I'm not all that comfortable giving him a pass right now (although I reserve the right to do a complete 180 on that opinion if Trfel flips scum, as I think that pairing is next to impossible), but he's completely right about Trfel's earlier questioning, and there's also this sequence of posts from him in the last ~2 hours: On January 28 2016 05:48 Trfel wrote: I don't have a read on Tumblewood, to be honest. The only thing that stands out to me is that he seems to be very careful about his posts. A lot of people seem to be suspecting Tumblewood, can someone please remind me why this is? On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote: Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong. On January 28 2016 06:48 Trfel wrote: No, no, no..... ##unvote ##vote Tumblewood Was going to wait for him to respond, but meh Kinda embarrassing to have a bunch of newbies catch scum and not me, but it is what it is XD Trfel please explain how you went from "not having a read on Tumblewood," to asking him a question clarifying a reason for his scumread, to scumreading him, all in the span of exactly one hour, and with one off-subject post from Tumblewood in-between. ##UNVOTE: Onegu ##VOTE: Trfel I really like the atmosphere of the thread right now. Lots of people seem pretty involved in the game and are being very proactive in pursuing their leads. I'll let you guys chew on this argument and see what you come up with. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote: EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town. Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. Where did that come from? You said yourself that you "didn't have an opinion on him" a couple of hours ago. Why do you think he's mafia and why did you say you didn't have an opinion about him? You weren't asking him a question at the time, so it's clear that you weren't saying it to set some kind of a trap for him. | ||
Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:11 nooniansoong wrote: the only purpose giving reasons would be to help clear myself as town. eden is not gonna get lynched today. i dont want to give him tips for how to look more townie. you are too funny with these "i called it d1" reads. If I see you bragging about any of these other day 1 reads in the postgame I'm going to remind you of this. | ||
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