EPT
+ Show Spoiler +
Get it dick move, sex? + Show Spoiler +
sex? like sex?+ Show Spoiler +
I just escort myself out of the room
Newbie Student Mafia XIX - Page 15
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On January 30 2016 14:52 Tumblewood wrote: I didn't predict that darth was breadcrumbing, it was just my best explanation for a really off-putting post. My mistake then. | ||
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On January 30 2016 20:04 PepperMintTea wrote: ##Vote JesusIncarnate I literately just checked your filter to see if you did anything after this post. You didn't, you still have yet to explain anything and now you hope on (at the time of this post) the person with the most votes. I am pretty sure you are scum at this point. | ||
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On January 31 2016 02:43 Trfel wrote: Nooooo  bad Shapelog.Wait and see what PepperMintTea does next un-prompted Would you rather me pressure her instead? Like she has also said that she post/do shit today at EOD to get out of talking about why she voted Kura. And now the first thing she does is vote the person with 2 votes on them. I am not going to wait for someone to post at this point. | ||
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On January 31 2016 02:49 PepperMintTea wrote: you seem a little upset so i'm going to post in a little bit once you have finished having a tantrum. By all means. You have the floor. | ||
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On January 31 2016 02:51 Trfel wrote: Often, not posting is more telling than posting. You don't need someone to post if all you need is to see their motivations. You're not "letting someone get off easy" if you don't scumread them for being lazy/doing nothing, you're just tightening the noose, but for a later date. But anyway, it's a moot point. I agree with you that PepperMintTea is suspicious, but the drop-off was so fast that it feels almost beyond mafia motivation, so I'm not sure it's enough in and of itself... Hmm you might be right, lets she what shes says in a few. Atm there is a man named Tumble and he posted and i want to read them more closely. | ||
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On January 31 2016 04:59 PepperMintTea wrote: Jesus is confirmed mafia based on his filter at this point. Don't have anything else to discuss. I can't even ridicule you because I am writing a post that is almost 1 whole page. Someone else please do it for me. | ||
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On January 30 2016 15:03 Tumblewood wrote: Kush is town, therefore kush's scumreads are correct? Kush doesn't know who mafia is any more than anyone else (except, of course, the mafia). On January 30 2016 15:11 Tumblewood wrote: What is up with the argument between Eden and Onegu? The way they're interacting does not look townie to me... let's have a look, shall we? This case is actually just, "fuck Onegu he's scum." Eden has put herself against Onegu without actually making a case. Townies do not have a motive to do that. Bonus: Onegu's "case" against Eden: The vibe I get from this is that Eden and Onegu are distancing themselves from each other. Most of my knowledge of forum mafia is just looking through the Mafiascum wiki, is distancing a scum read here? Because it's sure as hell not a town read. On January 30 2016 16:09 Tumblewood wrote: Instead of quoting Trfel's post, I'm just going to say that it's two posts above this one. Look at it and continue reading. If Onegu had flipped scum, I would have immediately seen Eden as a scumbuddy distancing. Since Onegu is VT, though, the reasoning behind this is more complex. I don't think that this is enough for Eden to immediately become scum in my book, especially since I had a town read earlier, but these baseless accusations say to me one of 3 things: 1. That Eden is trying to start a wagon on Onegu. That wouldn't make sense, since it was night, and if Eden cared she would form a well-reasoned argument instead. 2. That Eden was OMGUS-ing Onegu. There's no town or scum motive I can think of for this, so probably not. 3. That Eden wanted to provoke a response from Onegu. The purpose of that response is to create grounds for a case against Onegu, since Eden wanted to lynch Onegu the next day. The underlined case is the conclusion I draw from this. From a meta point of view (which is, in the words of the late Onegu, "bad, newbie, bad") You could write a 4th reason. Onegu became a troll near the morning of D2 and Eden (who has played with troll Onegu) Troll Onegu includes scum reading you while you are a UnCC'ed blue role or turning a joke you made into a scum slip, and generally not doing anything. Eden, along some other players, have decided to just not to care, and if he would of lived, prob. would of carried a p lynch onto him. A course, like i said I am being a bad newbie bad for using meta to explain this. So instead i am going to look at this as if they never had played b/4. Eden did Intailly have reasons to scum read Onegu + Show Spoiler + - Onegu is my current top suspect for a few okay-ish reasons: 1. Not recognizing Shapelog as obvious town. He talks about Shapelog's posts being weird, his posting direction as not helping town, blabla... ignores all the evidence pointing to the conclusion I just gave you from only skimming the thread, but then avoids giving a concrete read on Shapelog when the action is all centered on Shapelog during that sequence I mentioned at the beginning of this post (p13-14 I think is the right section, where Pepperminttea posted). I expect better from "tryhard Onegu" since I genuinely view the Shapelog read as trivially simple for an experienced player to make. 2. Unusually rigid policies for what is okay to use/discuss. This one's a little convoluted, but hopefully I'll make it clear. At several points during Onegu's interaction with Shapelog, there's these posts that basically say "You're doing X thing. X thing is A Bad Thing. Don't do X thing." Referring to some aspects of scumhunting that are variably useful: metagame reading (sometimes great, sometimes bad), setup spec discussion (same), self-meta (granted, this one is pretty bad always). And he's not wrong when he says them. Shapelog's attempted use of metagame reading of kush was not very productive, and setup spec posting is pretty bad in this setup (which I'll explain in a bit). And there's even a conflating motivator here -- Onegu is an experienced player in a newbie game, so you could argue he feels an impetus to steer the newbies toward more "proper" scumhunting avenues. But the lack of explanation bothers me a lot, especially given that the things he discusses are variably useful and not clearly always bad. Like he says to stop posting about blues, because it only helps mafia. In this case, it's true: since the mafia know the whole setup, the only thing that can really come from the town discussing the setup is blues accidentally slipping up and making clear that they have extra knowledge of the game state (and thus outing blues to mafia). (Mafia can slip in the same way, but it's hard for townies to distinguish whether the slip is blue or red in nature, and besides, mafia tend to be much more careful about their known information; so it's rare for mafia to slip and much more common for blues to do it, making it bad for town.) ^^ See how easy that explanation was? 3-4 lines. But Onegu doesn't even do that, he just says "this is bad don't do it." It belies the "Onegu is trying to help the newbies get better" explanation, since you would expect an explanation for why something is bad if you're trying to get better by having people tell you something is bad. As such it reads less like "Onegu trying to help the townies" and more like "Onegu trying to jam up potentially useful (from the standpoint of getting town reads) discussion under the guise of being helpful to newbies." B/4 i continue. Do you remember at all Eden reasons to scum read Onegu? First thing going into the read: - Onegu is my current top suspect for a few okay-ish reasons: He says that Onegu is his top suspect for okay-ish reasons. Which when looking at the TLDR TL;DR: - Shapelog solid town - kush, darth early tr's - Onegu scummy - There's probably a mafia among the "Shapelog is scummy" crowd from p13-14 Which can be explained by one or two reasons. Either Town!Eden was writing about how he thought Onegu was the top suspect and why and started to believe it more and in the TLDR decided that the "few okish" reasons were more then ok, therefore writing that Onegu is scummy in the TLDR. OR Scum!Eden, needing a way to enter the thread and get town cred, writes a case for onegu on why he is scum. She found reasons to call him scum (which he knew was weak, hince "few okish reasons") and pushed him for those. I personally think it is the 1st reason (as she later posts that she changes her opinion on people why she talks about them often) however, i can understand some logic that that post coming from scum to cover it up. Eden's 1st reason to scum read Onegu: 1. Not recognizing Shapelog as obvious town. He talks about Shapelog's posts being weird, his posting direction as not helping town, blabla... ignores all the evidence pointing to the conclusion I just gave you from only skimming the thread, but then avoids giving a concrete read on Shapelog when the action is all centered on Shapelog during that sequence I mentioned at the beginning of this post (p13-14 I think is the right section, where Pepperminttea posted). I expect better from "tryhard Onegu" since I genuinely view the Shapelog read as trivially simple for an experienced player to make. So, she, just skimming threw the thread, thinks i am town. Then she scum reads onegu for not coming/seeing the evidence on pointing to her conclusion + Show Spoiler + - Shapelog is obviously town, and the first thing I want to do when I get the motivation to read this game in detail (which will be tomorrow, hold me to this and don't let me be lazy) is to read the sequence of people scumreading him early while it was the "in" read to give, because I'm almost positive scum were involved in that. If I actually have to explain this (and if you need it explained, that's okay; newbie game and all), Shapelog's posting was very spontaneous and "error-prone" in the right way. As Onegu put it, "talking about someone's meta before they even post" is in fact a poor use of a townie's time, because you don't need to call attention to the idea that you have a way to read somebody based on meta. Just make the read in either direction when the trigger behavior you're waiting on manifests itself (or doesn't manifest itself when it should). But a post like that is never going to come from mafia. Mafia players don't think to themselves: "You know, I should post that I have a meta read on kush before he says anything. That will make me look more townie and advance my agenda." Because it doesn't. It's empty words. An excited townie, however, who is trying to get discussion started and generate meaningful data for themselves and other players to read, might be overeager and start talking about this tell before it manifests, because it's meaningful to them (even if it doesn't do anything yet). And if you read the rest of Shapelog's posts, eagerness and excitement are pretty reasonable descriptors of his emotional state as he plays. So we can either assume that Shapelog is a bad noob scum player, who also doesn't have anybody on his team to tell him that his early posting isn't doing anything to help, and who also doesn't have a scum coach telling him the same thing... or we can just assume that he is an eager townie, as his posts read. In which she even says that i could be a bad noob scum player. So she really isn't 100% convinced on me being fully town (hence why she said Solid town in TLDR) But when Onegu finds it scummy. To her, it is not ok. In fact, when really Onegu early game focus on more on scum hunting and finding screw ups then town reading people and Etc. Hell her first reason to scum read Onegu is because she expected more out of him. Idk about it, but i have seen a tryhard ish Onegu (smurf in nutcracker) and he played exactly like this. Very aggressive and what not. But again "bad newbie, bad" for using meta. And while Onegu did not direct or do anything really other then scum hunting for the most part, it is really bad to call someone "not tryharding" when they said they were tryharding only 6-7 hours into the game. it is not like she said it later in the day. Her second reason for scum reading Onegu: + Show Spoiler + 2. Unusually rigid policies for what is okay to use/discuss. This one's a little convoluted, but hopefully I'll make it clear. At several points during Onegu's interaction with Shapelog, there's these posts that basically say "You're doing X thing. X thing is A Bad Thing. Don't do X thing." Referring to some aspects of scumhunting that are variably useful: metagame reading (sometimes great, sometimes bad), setup spec discussion (same), self-meta (granted, this one is pretty bad always). And he's not wrong when he says them. Shapelog's attempted use of metagame reading of kush was not very productive, and setup spec posting is pretty bad in this setup (which I'll explain in a bit). And there's even a conflating motivator here -- Onegu is an experienced player in a newbie game, so you could argue he feels an impetus to steer the newbies toward more "proper" scumhunting avenues. But the lack of explanation bothers me a lot, especially given that the things he discusses are variably useful and not clearly always bad. Like he says to stop posting about blues, because it only helps mafia. In this case, it's true: since the mafia know the whole setup, the only thing that can really come from the town discussing the setup is blues accidentally slipping up and making clear that they have extra knowledge of the game state (and thus outing blues to mafia). (Mafia can slip in the same way, but it's hard for townies to distinguish whether the slip is blue or red in nature, and besides, mafia tend to be much more careful about their known information; so it's rare for mafia to slip and much more common for blues to do it, making it bad for town.) ^^ See how easy that explanation was? 3-4 lines. But Onegu doesn't even do that, he just says "this is bad don't do it." It belies the "Onegu is trying to help the newbies get better" explanation, since you would expect an explanation for why something is bad if you're trying to get better by having people tell you something is bad. As such it reads less like "Onegu trying to help the townies" and more like "Onegu trying to jam up potentially useful (from the standpoint of getting town reads) discussion under the guise of being helpful to newbies." It is really a moot point if you think about it. It is really bad to scum read someone for not teaching some one how to play the game they are currently playing (not to mention the possibility you would be teaching a scum how not to get scum read) that is why there are so many things such as Coaches and Post game annalist on Newb games. Could he have, Yeah, should he have? no. I can sort of understand what she means by "under the guise of being helpful to newbies" but how does that stop Onegu from being lynched if he did? just because someone is being helpful towards me as a newbie doesn't mean they are auto town. Hell I would do it as mafia to pocket the newbies. Really her points about Onegu being scum Intailly were pretty bad. Most of it were either Prob.s she had with his playstyle or him not having the same reads as her. Instead of maybe the fact that most of his filter was just one liners? Or anything really that made him scum? OR his Big thought wave post thingy? Or how he said i was pocking kush if i was mafia or ANYTHING REMOTELY SCUMMY. It just reads off as her just trying to find a way to call Onegu scum. So onegu posts his reasons why he isn't scum. On January 27 2016 16:36 Onegu wrote: 1. Why does this make me scummy. I am better than you and can make next level reads you cannot. And the fact that you want to call him basically confirmed town at this point is so fucking random. 2. Why is this AI at all. Ill give you a hint it isnt. Why the fuck do I have to be the one to explain things. If they want to take my word for something without putting critical thinking into things thats on them not me. Me just saying things makes them have to think if what I am saying is correct or not. Im not here to hold their hands. I am here to tell them they are newbies. And then find scum. You are going on about me saying things then you go and feel the need to then explain what I already said is correct? Then scum read me for not being helpful enough? I first i thought this post was a bit OMGUS but honestly, after becasuely coming to the exact same conclusions from it. It was defiantly correct in what he was saying. She follows up with: On January 27 2016 16:40 Eden1892 wrote: Boring. Please let me know when you're ready to drop the tough guy charade and play mafia. Sooooo, Eden knows that the points were weak and instead of any reasonable post. Just ignores it and pushs Onegu more. What is the Townie motivation in this? it doesn't solve/prove any of the reasons on why you call him scum. (B/4 I continue, Do you remember who this is actually about? I give you a hint, its Tumble. His part is coming just trust me) Then it becomes a Shitfeast. + Show Spoiler + Eden responds: On January 27 2016 16:59 Eden1892 wrote: So for those who care, Onegu's responses are terrible because: 1. He literally responds to my claim that Shapelog is an easy town read with "I'm better than you and capable of making next-level reads you can't make," while not having a read on Shapelog either way. He attempts to leverage some kind of perceived skill advantage to shoot down my opinion, but he gives no meaningful comment on whether he actually disagrees with the opinion or not (calling it "so fucking random" isn't meaningful). It's another angle Onegu appears to want to use to shut down various lines of discussion, but when he doesn't even seem to have a line of discussion he wants to pursue, what good is that for anybody? 2. He essentially says here that he isn't shutting down various lines of discussion to help guide newbies. He just wants to call people bad and then find scum. If you're an astute reader -- indeed, a reader at all -- you will notice that Onegu has only satisfied the "call people bad" half of that. No scum reads -- barely anything that would be considered a read at all. Where you at Onegu? If you're being such a try hard scum killer this game why is it that all I see from you is shouting newbies down and no reads? 1. He didn't shut it down fully. In fact he was confused on why you call me basically confirmed town (To his Opinion) The fact you twisted it to push your agenda (town or scum) is sus. 2. So he is scum hunting, which in any game is important. Newbie or not. He really did do really a whole lot of scummy things. And the fact that we ALL scum read him for not taking/providing thread discussion is really dumb. Why would scum not do that? On January 27 2016 17:23 Eden1892 wrote: Ok I'll grant that you do say Trfel is scummy without much ambiguity near the end of the train of thought post. It's hard to count that for much when you apparently forgot that read in your response to me though. And you named mex and tea reads just now but said nothing to that effect in the post. If anything you implied mex was scum. Your comments on tea and tumbleweed weren't clearly indicative of any opinion. Do you care to explain these discrepancies? Wait what? How did you even get to him being town. Because he mindlessly pushed his own scum read? Even when you say it doesn't count for much. Eden peaces and comes back with: On January 28 2016 05:12 Eden1892 wrote: I wish I could do like last game and ignore entire pages of the game and get away with it. I'll catch up from the start in a couple hours. There's an awful lot of directionless posting though. Chief offender seemed to be Trfel (which is why I liked Onegu's confident statement that Trfel is scum) but he's not alone. Peoe please think through a damn point and make sure it's relevant to finding mafia before you post. This site is replete with players who vomit every thought they have into the thread regardless of how useful it is, don't be like that. Thanks. More substantive stuff in a while. So i get town read because i vomit every thought yet you say not to do it. Ok NAI but funny You take on Onegu Scum read on Trofl but when you say he might be town you do not explain why? Weird. It is funny that this enter game people have been doing that but what ever. Blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah blah Ikido Blah blah blah blah blah blah D1 Shit with tinfoil Blah blah blah blah blah blah Blah blah blah blah blah blah Lynch and he changes vote to Kura for fair reasons Blah blah blah blah blah blah Eod Blah blah blah blah blah blah EOD with Onegu And now we are at D2. The question is, if onegu would survive. Would she lynch Onegu as scum. Which where we come full circle with Tumble posts. On January 30 2016 15:03 Tumblewood wrote: Kush is town, therefore kush's scumreads are correct? Kush doesn't know who mafia is any more than anyone else (except, of course, the mafia). This is how Tumble got onto Eden. It is very important to actually look at WHY tumble is even posting about Eden, as it can determine AI (alignment Indicative) behavior. I like this post by tumble for a number of reasons. One, Eden isn't very high/thought of for a lynch today during the time he post it. He could of adapted sure if he is mafia to do this, but why Eden? Heck we have one person (trofl) pushing him and instead of dealing with that he goings onto Eden. I feel scum would of defended themselves against Trofl instead of finding something like this. Points to Tumbledore. Tumbledore....I like that, Remind me to draw him with Koshius and Vobby later. On January 30 2016 15:11 Tumblewood wrote: What is up with the argument between Eden and Onegu? The way they're interacting does not look townie to me... let's have a look, shall we? This case is actually just, "fuck Onegu he's scum." Eden has put herself against Onegu without actually making a case. Townies do not have a motive to do that. Bonus: Onegu's "case" against Eden: The vibe I get from this is that Eden and Onegu are distancing themselves from each other. Most of my knowledge of forum mafia is just looking through the Mafiascum wiki, is distancing a scum read here? Because it's sure as hell not a town read. Well lets say Eden is mafia and Alur was there target for the night kill. Lets also say that kush was RBed by Mafia that includes Eden. So Scum! Eden RBs Kush to incriminate the "brag list" people. When Onegu gets shot by Darth, Eden goes back to the 1st (or at least a list without Onegu on it) to bring up. And then pushs from those people on it (Tumble or Jesus). Vs. Town Eden who goes with the first or second brag list she sees. Not the last one. Which does not make sense even with skimming. What is even more sus. of Eden is that she does not bring up discussion of Onegu being on the list at a time. further more. She never mentions him even being on the list. Makes me Fill like she is giving a blind eye on it. On January 30 2016 16:09 Tumblewood wrote: Instead of quoting Trfel's post, I'm just going to say that it's two posts above this one. Look at it and continue reading. If Onegu had flipped scum, I would have immediately seen Eden as a scumbuddy distancing. Since Onegu is VT, though, the reasoning behind this is more complex. I don't think that this is enough for Eden to immediately become scum in my book, especially since I had a town read earlier, but these baseless accusations say to me one of 3 things: 1. That Eden is trying to start a wagon on Onegu. That wouldn't make sense, since it was night, and if Eden cared she would form a well-reasoned argument instead. 2. That Eden was OMGUS-ing Onegu. There's no town or scum motive I can think of for this, so probably not. 3. That Eden wanted to provoke a response from Onegu. The purpose of that response is to create grounds for a case against Onegu, since Eden wanted to lynch Onegu the next day. The underlined case is the conclusion I draw from this. They were not fully baseless but they did suck when i reread them. 1. Why does she need to make a Argument, everyone was scuming him at that point lol. This is actually prob. the most scummiest reason on the list that isn't a big what if. 2. Really not correct at all 3. True.....IF eden posted 1st. On January 30 2016 05:01 Onegu wrote: Oh eden is scum. I am allowed to use meta you are not. He has a small filter. Go look at his town games when he was killed and the size of his filter then look at his scum games when he dies and the size of his filter. This is a guy who can make a 40 page filter in a mini as town but doesnt ever go past 10 pages as scum. Eden defended it fine. For the most part. However, I think this is a better explanation for scum Eden: Well lets say Eden is mafia and Alur was there target for the night kill. Lets also say that kush was RBed by Mafia that includes Eden. WHAT I JUST SAID So Scum! Eden RBs Kush to incriminate the "brag list" people. When Onegu gets shot by Darth, Eden goes back to the 1st (or at least a list without Onegu on it) to bring up. And then pushs from those people on it (Tumble or Jesus). What is even more sus. of Eden is that she does not bring up discussion of Onegu being on the list at a time. further more. She never mentions him even being on the list. Makes me Fill like she is giving a blind eye on it. TL;DR Bitches: While Tumbledore's reasoning aren't fully the real case. I do like where he is going with it and it feels kinda towny. I still feel a bit of a scum vibe from him though. Some things just do not sit right with me. Thankfully we have more hours till we have the lynch and we can see more of him in order to detrmine his alignment. Eden is seems scummy to me now after I look at her Onegu interactions. Her crap reasoning to enter the thread with it + ignoring Onegu respondence (which was not OMGUS shapelog, and was exactly what you, shapelog, came to after reading it) is scummy as hell. And the other shit she has done. Give Ikido a back door out of her scum read, Pushing Trofl off of Onegu. Etc. Trump Won office + Show Spoiler + Read the whole god damm post. You are not going to understand just looking at the TLDR. Stop being lazy and read. | ||
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WHYYYYY FML | ||
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God so many scummy people, not enough lynchs: PMT, just is so scummy Jesus, Also scummy Eden, reason is above Trofl , Actually starting to think this guy might actually be town. Need to read his filter. Tumble, Have to wait on him sadly (Ikido) Prob. not even getting lynch and can scum if Eden is scum like someone said earlier | ||
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On January 31 2016 05:51 Eden1892 wrote: i am not reading or responding to all that noise Here you go again doing to me what you did to Onegu. ##:Unvote ##Vote: Eden1892 Idk even know if you are the best lynch for today. But you just practically earned my vote with that. | ||
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On January 31 2016 05:59 Eden1892 wrote: i don't care although i would say i'm not doing nearly the same thing to you that i did to onegu. there's no way you're mafia, i'm just not wasting effort on a long-winded case i know is incorrect. inefficient use of time Talking to a mirror of myself makes me smile. Also fills me with rage. | ||
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On January 31 2016 07:13 Trfel wrote: PepperMintTea, I'm having trouble figuring out this game and would really like some help with solving the game. You seem to be a lot more certain than I am. PepperMintTea, can you please explain how you approached the Day 1 lynch, and why you are so certain of JesusIncarnate being mafia?  Waiting for PMT's post to this. | ||
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On January 31 2016 07:09 Trfel wrote: Shapelog, I'm sorry, but I don't have the energy to read all of that right now. I guess I can't put it off too long, I'll try to get to it later this evening if I can. There is always the TLDR, though it comes at the price of Trump winning Office. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U9hFCs3.jpg) If you let Donald Trump win office, you are just scum. | ||
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On January 31 2016 07:03 nooniansoong wrote: I think the standard is they get replaced if they request it and they get modkilled if they just disappear. But every mod does it differently. From what i have seen. need to get replaced due to RL reasons: Replece. Not voting, Replace and ban. Disappearing, breaking the rules, not voting, posting PM =Modkill | ||
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We ALL scum readed Onegu for the same reasons for the most part (i think). I even said so in it. | ||
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Onegu defended himself She just ignores it basically and finds another reason to push scum on Onegu (idk if i included that if not + Show Spoiler + On January 27 2016 17:01 Eden1892 wrote: Look right now even. He has nothing to say except to call people bad. He's in the thread while real, meaningful reads are being given, and he's pointedly not doing anything constructive. And we're supposed to believe this is tryhard town Onegu? Please. Then ends up towning him because of his scum read on you. Then back into the Scum pile. idk maybe i am seeing something people is not. but Eden is scum. | ||
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