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Pick Your Power: Intriguing - Page 3
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:08 Palmar wrote: Kita I don't want you holding a role to frame the entire game, that seems like a role town shouldn't pick. It's a tracker who can also do investigative checks or protects while tracking. It's a very strong town role. If I frame, I simply tell everyone that I'm framing and they reverse their results. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:18 Palmar wrote: Well you wouldn't frame, ever, would you anyway? If I choose the cop check, then it automatically does, though like I said, I just claim it. Even if you don't trust me and I claim frame or not frame, it would show up on every single watcher or tracker in the game so I have no reason to lie. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 01:23 Damdred wrote: Can I pick psy and use it on Kita so he's annoyed all game with his check. So BM  | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On first glance I think mass claim could potentially work, but the biggest downside if having public knowledge of the top tier investigative roles. For instance, mafia shoot someone like Holmes or House and then mess with the results of the remaining ones because they know who to target. From what I remember, there weren't a ton of redirect tools in the setup so it might not be a huge issue. The key to stopping this would be to throw a watcher on the high priority cops to ensure that mafia can't shoot or mess with them without being spotted and trading 1:1. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Free for all picks for me, koshi and damdred? lol no, The purpose of your plan is to ensure there is no overlap of town roles. There is a very small pool of remaining roles that aren't already listed, so us "FFA" players are just going to step on each other's toes. By excluding Nigella, you're eliminating a watcher from the setup. A watcher is probably the STRONGEST ROLE in the game. By allowing damdred to watch House and Holmes mafia can't touch them without a trade. I am picking Dr. Sy N. Tist Koshi should pick Werner Von Braun Damdred should pick Nigella Lawson Simple as that. If Koshi or Damdred wants to trade, then it would be fine by me. You can't have a mayoral election on day one because the night action needs to go through first. If a player comes out town to a d1 investigative check, then I think we should give them the mayor and bodyguard role. If Holmes or one of the other super powerful roles looks really townie by day two then they should also be considered. I'd prefer Vivax as the City Councilman and Onegu as the jailkeeper. Whoever said it earlier was right, you give the scummiest player the bodyguard role. If Onegu was indeed the scummiest player in the game, then that's fine, but simply being difficult to read doesn't warrant having him be the guy that takes the hit. Scummy player > unknown player when it comes to taking a hit. We can't go into day one with players who openly refuse to go along with the plan. We have to work around their requests and deal with the consequences later on. Keir is taking House so Obi needs to be assigned a new role. If Keir is mafia then that's a bummer, but a mafia with a investigative role can only last so long. We take his checks at face value and evaluate them from there. Keir's reaction to the plan by totally ignoring it and going solo makes me change my mind on him. I'm scum reading him now, which is kinda annoying that he has the first pick, but it is what it is. If anyone doesn't share their intentions to oppose the plan and then denies another player from a role they should be policy lynched. Speak now or forever hold your peace. The Shining wants Yu, so we can give the time travelling vig to obi to fill things out. God help us all. By kei swapping to House we need a fill in for the Gambler. On January 20 2016 23:51 kitaman27 wrote: This seems solid. For number three, I think it is important that we tell them exactly who to pick. If we leave it up to them then they can pick a townie of their choice to kill and try to justify it. Since those 2-3 players don't know if they were actually targeted, they can't move their vote off a mafia at end of day if they know they're caught. Another option we have is to force the strongest scum suspect to be the gambler. If town feels that the gambler is still mafia by the end of day one, we force the gambler target to vote for the gambler, killing them both. Otherwise, we pick the target for the gambler voter. If either player refuses to follow through, we policy lynch since the final vote count will show the +0 and +2. I think I kinda like my version better. Thoughts? I shared my thoughts earlier with supersoft on how I think this should be optimally used. Lets give AlotsoMuch the gambler and then decide whether or not we should use it to kill him or just have him alignment check a player of our choice on day two. GlowingBear should pick up the kitaman27 role that we can be used in situations where a player becomes mysterious challenger. Say someone in the 15th spot gets their role stolen. It's going to be really hard to narrow that down, but GB can then simply identify that player right away which forces mafia to stay honest. Flowey is a bit too meh for my liking. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 06:38 geript wrote: I'm taking link per plan. Since gambler/for will be gone Gambler actually would be availible since keir is going House. Right now it looks like nobody is drafting gambler. Though link is strong too. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. The reason is quite simple. If we assign everyone roles, mafia can just freely pick a role that wasn't assigned to them. The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. If we have no failssafes, mafia can just pick whatever the fuck they want. Essentially, my plan is pointless. I basically can't be arsed arguing this, I am out of energy trying to get people to be not stupid. Kita is very likely mafia because he's not dumb enough to think his version is an actual improvement. This is wrong on so many levels. I'll reply in a couple hours when I'm available. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: The reason is quite simple. If we assign everyone roles, mafia can just freely pick a role that wasn't assigned to them. The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. Let me show you why this is so, so, so wrong. Palmar's plan: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 are free for all picks that are instructed to pick a role above them in the list to PROVE the players above us actually take a role that they want. Result: Koshi, damdred, and kitaman27 wind up as Mysterious challengers because they were idiotic enough to pick a role that was already selected. BUT AT LEAST WE VERIFIED 3 PICKS, RIGHT GUYS? Kita's plan: Koshi picks his assigned power role damdred picks his assigned power role kita picks his assigned power role Result: Between those three roles we now have 1x watcher 2x tracker 2x protection 1x nuke 1x secondary lynch 1x parity cop 1x alignment cop So what's more important, all those abilities or verifying that 3 people above us took the roles they promised (which has no alignment indicative information. Even if a player takes their assigned role, they still could be mafia) On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: If we have no failssafes, mafia can just pick whatever the fuck they want. Essentially, my plan is pointless. No they really can't. For a mafia player to "pick whatever they want", that means that the role can't already have been chosen by another player. If they pick above another player, then they are denying the player below, that player claims and we have a combination of role checks, the kitaman27 role, and trackers to figure out who it was. So that leaves the list of roles that go unpicked. They're almost all trash: Hero - Picked by VA anyways Puppeteer - Useless for mafia Dimensional Lemming - Useless for mafia Speaker for the Dead - Useless for mafia Artanis - Useless for mafia GreYMisT - Useless for mafia because it only delays things for 12 hours. Janitor - 1 shot use and can't be used on the lynch. Not a high priority Copycat - Not a priority Tommy the Fireman - Okay mafia role, but not a Psy - If he uses his ability, it confirms he is in the game and we get him by role check, track or kitaman27 Alchemist - A delayed 1 shot vig? meh I suppose it is useful for mafia, but not a huge priority pick to justify breaking the plan Yu Narukami - Kinda useful role, but I suggested that it be picked in my post so it wouldn't be open Knight Artorias - Strong mafia role Essentially there is one mafia role that is worth grabbing and we have sicklucker's honest check on that one. Furthermore, since all role selections are basically public, you are responsible for your actions. Say the tracker decides that they are going to "undermine" your plan and grab a different role. They still gotta say who they visited each night, their tracker results etc. So essentially lie each night about their action. It's not worth the mafia risk. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: I basically can't be arsed arguing this, I am out of energy trying to get people to be not stupid. Kita is very likely mafia because he's not dumb enough to think his version is an actual improvement. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. The fact that you're trying to take my clearly superior plan and justify it as a reason that I'm mafia is preposterous. Earlier in the game you mentioned that town's objective is to maximize the amount of blue roles we get. Yet here you are pushing a plan where there players are doing "honest checks". When I edit your plan to maximize the blue roles it makes me scum? That's laughable. Palmar is mafia | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 20 2016 09:37 Palmar wrote: It's in town's best favor to have as many roles we control in the game as possible On January 21 2016 08:40 kitaman27 wrote: The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. Who here thinks these three statements could possibly follow a logical sequence from a town Palmar? It's impossible. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 20 2016 09:37 Palmar wrote: It's in town's best favor to have as many roles we control in the game as possible On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: The entire point of having ffa/check players is for them to take roles that SHOULD have been taken before them to PROVE the players before them actually took the roles they were meant to take. It's a failsafe. On January 21 2016 07:21 Palmar wrote: Kita's additions completely undermine my plan. Who here thinks these three statements could possibly follow a logical sequence from a town Palmar? It's impossible. EBWOP the second quote should be under palmar's name not mine. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 08:47 Superbia wrote: I think it makes sense from a town perspective to have some people check-pick near end of the list. Assuming they're not all aligned (decent assumption), it puts some pressure on mafia to pick what they're told and not pick some super scummy role. Pick 8, 10, and 15 should not be thrown away simply to verify that a player picked their roles. I suggested they be replaced by three very powerful roles that include watching abilities, parity cop, tracking, and protection. Then Palmar calls me mafia for "undermining his plan". It's so illogical that it's ridiculous. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 08:50 Fecalfeast wrote: Hi, dumb stoner here, just gonna work this one out on paper. Palmar: The more roles we control the better Palmar: Some players should have freedom to pick so we can check ^^This is a disconnect in thinking and your suggestion to eliminate the ffa roles, rather than undermine his initial quote, fortifies it? He told the FFA picks to grab a role ahead of them that was already picked. So for instance, koshi picks Link to make sure geript picked Link. kita picks arrow to make sure palmar is arrow, and damdred picks house to make sure breshke is house. In 99% of cases, koshi, kita, and damdred are now mysterious challengers because Occam's razor tells us that they're going to pick what they say. I suggest that we grab three super power roles instead that were omitted from his list and suddenly I'm undermining his plan. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 08:49 Palmar wrote: nonono clearly I evil mastermind who created a massive plan just to take roles awayh from some random players with the side effect of probably negating all mafia roles. such smart wow Fine, lets be civil. Here are your top ten suggested picks, including the two honesty checks at 8 and 10. Keirathi: Gambler Superbia: CPR Doc OWS: House Rels: Reynolds Palmar: Arrow geript: Link Breshke: Holmes Koshi: FFA Cephiro: Dreamflower Kita: FFA Explain to me why my plan undermines yours by removing the FFA pick from Koshi and myself. The Gambler is a verifiable role based on the vote count at the end of the cycle. Mafia is not giving up the CPR Doc. House is really the only role out of the top 10 that I can see dropping out to sneak another, but he still has to lie each cycle about his results which doesn't make it worth taking something else. Reynolds is really useful for mafia. I can't see them passing on that. I'm guessing you don't need a honest check to tell us whether you picked arrow. Link has to provide a watcher result on day one and roleblock the entire game on night two so it's not like you can lie about that. Holmes results are returned to the other detectives so we'd know if he didn't take him. Dreamflower needs to shoot mafia to have an excuse for being alive. Could you point out the mafia strategy that I'm overlooking here that makes your plan suddenly useless? All the roles are either verifiable or strong enough that mafia would keep them anyways. Why do we need honesty checks in place of things like a parity check, tracker, or protect? | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 09:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Kita - Could be scum. His constant attack of Palmar over things rather than trying to push his plan forward reeks of scum motivation - looks like scum trying to unsettle our town leader instead of trying to move us in a positive direction. Umm after Palmar posted his plan, I explained why I thought it could work and what I would suggest to make it better. It was only until later when Palmar made his nonsense response that I started going after it. Your narrative really doesn't fit here. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 09:39 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Let me put it this way - we were scrambling around and talking about who should get what and you're busy talking about a lynch that isn't happening for another 48 hours. My biggest concern was that we had a last minute scramble and you were just kind of walling up about Palmar being mafia where we were concerned about losing access to several power roles. Well I did suggest a role for you and several other people that weren't matched up with one in my post. On January 21 2016 06:10 kitaman27 wrote: we can give the time travelling vig to obi to fill things out. God help us all. My biggest concern is that the idea that having three useless honesty checks instead of valid power roles like parity cop would be a complete waste and that Palmar was being overdramatic by calling my suggestions something that would make his plan useless, considering it just changed 3 vanilla picks to 3 good ones that he missed. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 21 2016 09:47 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Mf I could have gotten time-travelling vigilante. Gdi. lol you totally skimmed over my post didn't you XD | ||
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