[M][N] Unoriginal Name Mini Mafia

On January 20 2016 10:44 Alur wrote:

I feel like it would be impressive to hold this opinion if you didn't know he was actually mafia. I casually followed the game and (at the time) it didn't really strike me as odd. But it is entirely possible that I'm just bad.

Something I took notice of was boxerfreds gg post (emphasis added):

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Doesn't the bolded part convey that he was taken down by town pressure? I feel like the sentence hurts the mafia.

On January 09 2016 17:20 Eden1892 wrote:

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A counterquestion. Why should Koshi be reluctant to back off? Just because he said he wouldn't lynch active players?

Most pushes this early in day 1 don't lead to lynching the people being pushed. I would even go as far as to say that if your early pushes are engineered to lynch people, you're doing it wrong. The point of putting other players' feet to the fire early is to force them to make substantive statements about the game state. This is helpful regardless of whether the player is town or mafia, active or inactive, yada yada.

I agree it's a bit bizarre that he pivoted over to noonian and doesn't post anything. Not leaving any reasons for it is, indeed unhelpful.

But you said this:

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This sounds to me more like an indictment of his entire posting history, not just his admittedly bordering-on-useless "vote/push" post.

You're not telling me that of all the posts Koshi has made this day, the whole body of work is unhelpful due to this one post at the end, are you?

If you are, forgive me for finding it uncompelling. I think Koshi's been of at least moderate use in generating discussion. I think his pressure on slOosh was constructive, and I would certainly not call the body of work unhelpful. You're going to have to do better than just handwave the whole thing as unhelpful.

Maybe cite something specific for me outside of the noonian vote? (Or if you have nothing else, then please elaborate as to why that invalidated the rest of his posting history this game.)

Meh, i'm starting to see why there are newbie mafia games run lol. It was a bit too shallow to vote on Koshi given the circumstances.

On January 10 2016 03:13 darthfoley wrote:

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On January 09 2016 17:43 Eden1892 wrote:

On January 09 2016 17:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On January 09 2016 17:27 Eden1892 wrote:

On January 09 2016 17:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
boo to yourself eden

You do read what I say!

I am curious why you and slOosh seemed to just mutually drop your conversation about your divergent reads on GiygaS. Weren't you a little curious why slOosh could read the same thing you did and conclude the exact opposite thing about GiygaS's alignment?

There is no reason for me to answer this before slOosh does.
I will after that. I will just say that coming to opposite conclusion (which is btw pretty strong wording here -- since i literally stated my read is "tentative") and concluding that the other person makes sense are not mutually exclusive.

They aren't exclusive, I just figured you might still be curious enough to ask.

But you are right, I would much rather hear slOosh's answer on this first.

On January 09 2016 17:29 darthfoley wrote:

On January 09 2016 17:20 Eden1892 wrote:

On January 09 2016 17:13 darthfoley wrote:

On January 09 2016 16:51 Eden1892 wrote:

On January 09 2016 16:34 darthfoley wrote:
I'm also voting Koshi as it stands. The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town.

##Vote: Koshi

What is unhelpful about Koshi's posts in your own words? As they seem less helpful the more you look at them, I expect that you will be able to explain this pretty easily for this potato townie questioning you.

Well, originally I thought that the conversation's direction regarding sloosh was pretty productive. It got him talking, and also gave out a decent amount of info to sift through, which you've courteously done. Out of all the active players so far, I think rayne has been the most town; his posts are well thought out and his questions are inquisitive. So, I looked at Koshi closer because he was one of the adamant Sloosh scum posters next to rayne.

For me, I am mainly am just confused as to why he's been reluctant to back off Sloosh after saying he wouldn't target active townspeople on day 1. Maybe he strictly means he won't vote for active townspeople but still target them in discussion, though his grilling of Sloosh followed by a pivot towards a poster with no history seems out of place and too random for my liking. He cites "terrible" reasons that he probably won't remember in the morning, which basically provides no information about anything at all. Why couldn't he include at least an outline of something relevant?

I'm unclear on Sloosh, because some of his questioning lacks a clear direction and looks kind of filler. I think Giygas is town as of now. Your point on his intuitive search for more info at the start of the game re game setup is an angle I hadn't thought of.

A counterquestion. Why should Koshi be reluctant to back off? Just because he said he wouldn't lynch active players?

Most pushes this early in day 1 don't lead to lynching the people being pushed. I would even go as far as to say that if your early pushes are engineered to lynch people, you're doing it wrong. The point of putting other players' feet to the fire early is to force them to make substantive statements about the game state. This is helpful regardless of whether the player is town or mafia, active or inactive, yada yada.

I agree it's a bit bizarre that he pivoted over to noonian and doesn't post anything. Not leaving any reasons for it is, indeed unhelpful.

But you said this:

I'm also voting Koshi as it stands. The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town.

This sounds to me more like an indictment of his entire posting history, not just his admittedly bordering-on-useless "vote/push" post.

You're not telling me that of all the posts Koshi has made this day, the whole body of work is unhelpful due to this one post at the end, are you?

If you are, forgive me for finding it uncompelling. I think Koshi's been of at least moderate use in generating discussion. I think his pressure on slOosh was constructive, and I would certainly not call the body of work unhelpful. You're going to have to do better than just handwave the whole thing as unhelpful.

Maybe cite something specific for me outside of the noonian vote? (Or if you have nothing else, then please elaborate as to why that invalidated the rest of his posting history this game.)

Meh, i'm starting to see why there are newbie mafia games run lol. It was a bit too shallow to vote on Koshi given the circumstances. The more I think about it, the more I do see the utility of his grilling of Sloosh near the start. It's true that he doesn't have to back off a scum read, especially because as you said, lots of people get grilled day 1 and it doesn't necessarily mean it's aimed at a lynch. I was under the impression that Koshi actually scum reads Sloosh, although it's useful info either way.

The more reflective I am of the Koshi v Sloosh dynamic, the more I realize that I can't let my frustration of being kind of clueless make me jump to hasty conclusions. At this point, I can't constructively add much until Koshi explains his Noon read imo.

I don't understand what was shallow about voting Koshi there. If your takeaway from my questions was "you are wrong for voting Koshi," that takeaway isn't the one I intended to convey.

The takeaway was "I don't understand why you are voting Koshi" -- and you're essentially telling me you don't have much to add to the discussion until Koshi explains his read.

But... you still had a reason for saying that Koshi's posts were unhelpful. After all, unless you intend to tell me your statement that "The more I look at his posts, the less helpful they seem to the Town." was made up, something you read made you think this.

I just want to know what that something is.

The reasons I said that were because of the Noon vote, and because I thought he was really trying hard to sway rayne's townread on Sloosh in a way that seemed a bit suspicious. It wasn't that much to go on. Just woke up so i'll get up to date with the thread, but I wanted to make sure I responded to this

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