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OUTLAW MINI MAFIA

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 23 2015 01:27 GMT
#19
I could maybe cohost if it ends up being an absolute emergency.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 24 2015 01:25 GMT
#55
If there are enough spots:

/in

If someone wants my spot, they are more than welcome to it.

If I don't play, I would like to /obs or /replace, if the latter is necessary.

And either way, I promise not to be a jerk. New non-obnoxious playstyle.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 24 2015 03:14 GMT
#63
Could you up it to ~20 maybe? It just feels like with the lower frequency of games here, it would be better to give more people a chance to play if possible.

Otherwise, like I said, it's fine if I don't play.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 01:13 GMT
#128
On December 26 2015 10:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Prob gonna be my first mislynch as town (nonhydra) if I roll town
But we need to lynch MoosyDoosy first

And there's no way you get lynched before I do XD
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 18:49 GMT
#159
Requesting a five mafia setup instead of a six mafia setup?

I want my chances of rolling mafia to be as low as possible...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 21:33 GMT
#180
To be honest, I'd much, much rather deal with End of Day on New Years' Eve than New Years' Day? I don't really care when End of Night is.

Not sure what time that ends up being for Europeans, though.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:01 GMT
#201
Hello

It's the first time in about nine months where I have a town winrate greater than 50%. I'd like to keep it that way.

For those of you who don't know, this is approximately my skill at mafia:
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:14 GMT
#223
On December 27 2015 08:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred
Damdred


are you feeling happy?
Hi, Artanis, you're mafia!

##vote Artanis[Xp]
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:17 GMT
#232
On December 27 2015 08:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 08:14 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred
Damdred


are you feeling happy?
Hi, Artanis, you're mafia!

##vote Artanis[Xp]

But that's not what my PM said
Do you consider yourself to be suspected, though?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:20 GMT
#238
On December 27 2015 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 08:17 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:14 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Damdred
Damdred


are you feeling happy?
Hi, Artanis, you're mafia!

##vote Artanis[Xp]

But that's not what my PM said
Do you consider yourself to be suspected, though?

By, N e s s, yes.

I have no idea about you because I can see you fear reading me either way.
Okay, then it appears that you are mafia, because you are suspected for something that you actually did post and are not complaining.

That was easy
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:25 GMT
#246
Wait a second, I messed up, didn't I

It appears that Artanis is town, if he's being pushed for what he has posted, he's town.

Even idiot-proof isn't idiot-proof enough for me T.T
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:39 GMT
#261
Artanis, yeah I know the point, but I don't care XD

Yes, I have a few reads. Nothing interesting, though
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 26 2015 23:49 GMT
#270
Stupid internet

Weak town reads on Artanis[Xp], Damdred, maybe GlowingBear. But it seems I missed a ton of posts somehow, so bleh, I'll figure it out later.

Going to go take a sauna now.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 01:42 GMT
#362
After skimming through some stuff, I kinda think that Artanis is right on ExO_ being mafia.

I think that the meta comparison between ExO_'s play in Guardians of the Galaxy is somewhat useful as well (assuming I am remembering it correctly); there, he didn't seem annoyed, he seemed a bit more reserved and like he was trying to make the best with the situation instead of arguing and getting frustrated. I'll check tonight when I get better internet.

##vote ExO_
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 02:06 GMT
#395
Meh, ExO_'s last post (couldn't get the quote to load) seemed pretty towny. I'm bad at this

I think I'll keep my mouth shut until I find something actually worth talking about.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 05:53 GMT
#585
I think that Artanis is town for post count. Post count seems to be an extremely huge tell for him.

I don't care if he knows that I will read him based on post count, we both know that he can't keep a high post count as mafia this game The fact that he made this many posts early seems extremely town-motivated to me. I just don't see Artanis doing that as mafia, it's a futile effort that would be irrelevant to his survival (since his activity will drop off).

Call me silly, but I think it's an easy read.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 06:02 GMT
#599
On December 27 2015 14:54 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 14:53 Trfel wrote:
I think that Artanis is town for post count. Post count seems to be an extremely huge tell for him.

I don't care if he knows that I will read him based on post count, we both know that he can't keep a high post count as mafia this game The fact that he made this many posts early seems extremely town-motivated to me. I just don't see Artanis doing that as mafia, it's a futile effort that would be irrelevant to his survival (since his activity will drop off).

Call me silly, but I think it's an easy read.


what do you think of me and rayn and our disagreement on reading you?
Didn't really read it yet, raynpelikoneet's townread of me felt a bit "easy", like I don't think he generally reads me with that confidence, and I don't think that my play has been notably good so far (or towny, outside potential meta that few, if any, know).
On December 27 2015 09:47 ritoky wrote:
trfel is mafia cuz he sounded whimpy. having played with trfel as mafia recently, i think his biggest tell is that he sounds meek and whimpy as mafia.
This statement, however, is exactly the opposite of my "meta". This is not a reason to townread me, since my scum playstyle wasn't working and I need a new playstyle, but your statement here is factually incorrect.

I mean, it's possible that you see my scum play as weak and wimpy, fine. Compared to my town play, though, it's extremely aggressive. I feel like you should know this, seeing as I kept mentioning that I was scared about hurting people's feelings in the scum QT? But there's no incentive for you to lie intentionally, so bleh.

I'm going to reread the thread now, so yeah.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 06:09 GMT
#613
On December 27 2015 15:07 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 15:02 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 14:54 ritoky wrote:
On December 27 2015 14:53 Trfel wrote:
I think that Artanis is town for post count. Post count seems to be an extremely huge tell for him.

I don't care if he knows that I will read him based on post count, we both know that he can't keep a high post count as mafia this game The fact that he made this many posts early seems extremely town-motivated to me. I just don't see Artanis doing that as mafia, it's a futile effort that would be irrelevant to his survival (since his activity will drop off).

Call me silly, but I think it's an easy read.


what do you think of me and rayn and our disagreement on reading you?
Didn't really read it yet, raynpelikoneet's townread of me felt a bit "easy", like I don't think he generally reads me with that confidence, and I don't think that my play has been notably good so far (or towny, outside potential meta that few, if any, know).
On December 27 2015 09:47 ritoky wrote:
trfel is mafia cuz he sounded whimpy. having played with trfel as mafia recently, i think his biggest tell is that he sounds meek and whimpy as mafia.
This statement, however, is exactly the opposite of my "meta". This is not a reason to townread me, since my scum playstyle wasn't working and I need a new playstyle, but your statement here is factually incorrect.

I mean, it's possible that you see my scum play as weak and wimpy, fine. Compared to my town play, though, it's extremely aggressive. I feel like you should know this, seeing as I kept mentioning that I was scared about hurting people's feelings in the scum QT? But there's no incentive for you to lie intentionally, so bleh.

I'm going to reread the thread now, so yeah.


i remember you not committing to a side like at all day 1 in that game and then backing down from a blue claim fight and getting pretty wishy-washy when people got salty. maybe you're right and i am wrong and the game we were mafia together in was just a bit of an anomaly. might got look at another one of your scum games to see if i get the feels.
Seeing as I managed to defend my mafia partner by leading a mislynch on Day 1, and even pushed an un-cc'd blue trying to force the mislynch through?

I'd really like you to explain how you could see my play in this way, and more importantly, how you can see my town play as more committal.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 06:28 GMT
#625
On December 27 2015 15:22 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 15:09 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 15:07 ritoky wrote:
On December 27 2015 15:02 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 14:54 ritoky wrote:
On December 27 2015 14:53 Trfel wrote:
I think that Artanis is town for post count. Post count seems to be an extremely huge tell for him.

I don't care if he knows that I will read him based on post count, we both know that he can't keep a high post count as mafia this game The fact that he made this many posts early seems extremely town-motivated to me. I just don't see Artanis doing that as mafia, it's a futile effort that would be irrelevant to his survival (since his activity will drop off).

Call me silly, but I think it's an easy read.


what do you think of me and rayn and our disagreement on reading you?
Didn't really read it yet, raynpelikoneet's townread of me felt a bit "easy", like I don't think he generally reads me with that confidence, and I don't think that my play has been notably good so far (or towny, outside potential meta that few, if any, know).
On December 27 2015 09:47 ritoky wrote:
trfel is mafia cuz he sounded whimpy. having played with trfel as mafia recently, i think his biggest tell is that he sounds meek and whimpy as mafia.
This statement, however, is exactly the opposite of my "meta". This is not a reason to townread me, since my scum playstyle wasn't working and I need a new playstyle, but your statement here is factually incorrect.

I mean, it's possible that you see my scum play as weak and wimpy, fine. Compared to my town play, though, it's extremely aggressive. I feel like you should know this, seeing as I kept mentioning that I was scared about hurting people's feelings in the scum QT? But there's no incentive for you to lie intentionally, so bleh.

I'm going to reread the thread now, so yeah.


i remember you not committing to a side like at all day 1 in that game and then backing down from a blue claim fight and getting pretty wishy-washy when people got salty. maybe you're right and i am wrong and the game we were mafia together in was just a bit of an anomaly. might got look at another one of your scum games to see if i get the feels.
Seeing as I managed to defend my mafia partner by leading a mislynch on Day 1, and even pushed an un-cc'd blue trying to force the mislynch through?

I'd really like you to explain how you could see my play in this way, and more importantly, how you can see my town play as more committal.


Shit like this:

Show nested quote +
On September 29 2015 07:05 Trfel wrote:
On September 29 2015 07:02 LightningStrike wrote:
On September 29 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Trfel!
(musical version)

Soundtrack for this post

As some of you may know, I really appreciate instrumental music. As with most things, my knowledge of classical music is very limited (I only know a few of the major symphonies, for example), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying music. My tastes in music are fairly strange and specific, which I suppose comes partly from my musical background.

I have no real music theory education, but I have been playing trumpet for a while, throughout grade school and continuing in college. I like to think that I'm quite good at it, but unfortunately musical instruments are very challenging for most people and it would take me far more effort than I feel comfortable giving to get my trumpet playing to the next level. So I'm stuck playing in one of the boring bands at the university, which just has a bunch of people who feel like playing their instrument once in a while but aren't terribly good at it. And I've found myself really losing my appreciation for playing and practicing trumpet, which is very sad because I've spent so much time working on my trumpet playing over the past five years or so, but I'm not sure if there is anything that I can do about it.

But I still enjoy music a ton. Not just listening to it, but being a part of it. So I'm trying to learn how to compose music. It's quite difficult because I have no formal theory training (just whatever I've picked up over my years with trumpet and coming from a fairly musical family), and my piano playing skills are next to zero (and piano playing is basically how everyone composes music). So it will definitely be a difficult learning period, but I hope that I can push through it.

I have a keyboard in my room now, full 88 keys. I've tried to play it several times, but I'm so bad that it's painful to listen to myself. If anyone has any tips for starting on the piano, I'm very interested XD

But the piano has proved useful for testing new chords and progressions for my songs. I don't have much yet, and the progress is slow, but I'm hoping that I can figure out how to compose proper music.

I generally enjoy music with heavier usage of brass instruments (I do play trumpet, after all). John Williams has done some incredible things with brass in many of his famous movie scores and other compositions. In particular, his french horn usage is amazing. I also found an old CD of some Miklos Rosza film music, and that's been really enjoyable as well. The style of music used in film scores seems very fun to compose, play, and listen to, as there is much more freedom in the music itself (though modern movies tend to utilize the musical score more for background only, and don't use a recurring melody that brings the music directly to people's attention, which I find a bit lacking).

Despite having basically no idea what I'm doing, I'm very excited about the possibilities and hope to create some good songs.

One great band piece to end the post (or at least, I think it's a great band piece ):

TLDR please? Also guys I'm town this game let's get some scum lynched!
My post isn't actually that long, if you actually care about the content you can just read it yourself.....

And if you don't care about the content, then you can probably just not read the stuff inside the spoiler. Which is all of the post. So you're done!

That wasn't too hard, was it?


Show nested quote +
On September 29 2015 07:07 Trfel wrote:
On September 29 2015 07:03 rsoultin wrote:
On September 29 2015 07:02 LightningStrike wrote:
On September 29 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Welcome to the Wonderful World of Trfel!
(musical version)

Soundtrack for this post

As some of you may know, I really appreciate instrumental music. As with most things, my knowledge of classical music is very limited (I only know a few of the major symphonies, for example), but that doesn't stop me from enjoying music. My tastes in music are fairly strange and specific, which I suppose comes partly from my musical background.

I have no real music theory education, but I have been playing trumpet for a while, throughout grade school and continuing in college. I like to think that I'm quite good at it, but unfortunately musical instruments are very challenging for most people and it would take me far more effort than I feel comfortable giving to get my trumpet playing to the next level. So I'm stuck playing in one of the boring bands at the university, which just has a bunch of people who feel like playing their instrument once in a while but aren't terribly good at it. And I've found myself really losing my appreciation for playing and practicing trumpet, which is very sad because I've spent so much time working on my trumpet playing over the past five years or so, but I'm not sure if there is anything that I can do about it.

But I still enjoy music a ton. Not just listening to it, but being a part of it. So I'm trying to learn how to compose music. It's quite difficult because I have no formal theory training (just whatever I've picked up over my years with trumpet and coming from a fairly musical family), and my piano playing skills are next to zero (and piano playing is basically how everyone composes music). So it will definitely be a difficult learning period, but I hope that I can push through it.

I have a keyboard in my room now, full 88 keys. I've tried to play it several times, but I'm so bad that it's painful to listen to myself. If anyone has any tips for starting on the piano, I'm very interested XD

But the piano has proved useful for testing new chords and progressions for my songs. I don't have much yet, and the progress is slow, but I'm hoping that I can figure out how to compose proper music.

I generally enjoy music with heavier usage of brass instruments (I do play trumpet, after all). John Williams has done some incredible things with brass in many of his famous movie scores and other compositions. In particular, his french horn usage is amazing. I also found an old CD of some Miklos Rosza film music, and that's been really enjoyable as well. The style of music used in film scores seems very fun to compose, play, and listen to, as there is much more freedom in the music itself (though modern movies tend to utilize the musical score more for background only, and don't use a recurring melody that brings the music directly to people's attention, which I find a bit lacking).

Despite having basically no idea what I'm doing, I'm very excited about the possibilities and hope to create some good songs.

One great band piece to end the post (or at least, I think it's a great band piece ):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHjFvEZXIko

TLDR please? Also guys I'm town this game let's get some scum lynched!


TLDR:

yada yada music yada

not posting cause music yada yada
Anyway, this post is extremely scummy. Rsoultin is clearly mafia.

Why does she not take a stance? She's just fanning the flames and waiting to see where everyone comes down instead of actually leading the thread.

##vote rsoultin


From battle of drams where you're assertive and telling people how it is. Not weak in tone, but rather straightforward and terse.

oh wow...i went back to read newbie student fullmetal and i am just wrong. you were super fucking aggro in this game. maybe i just have a fucked up perception cuz of the qt. well i guess that read is trash now.
Thanks for answering my question. That makes sense to me for now, though I'll re-evaluate upon finishing the thread.

I'm too lazy to check, why did you townread Artanis early in the game? If you already answered, I'll find it eventually, sorry.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 07:43 GMT
#646
To throw my reputation out the window or not......

Meh, I guess I'll go for it.

rsoultin?

(runs for cover)
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 08:10 GMT
#654
If you're town, please do something to make me think that you're town T.T

Like, why are you scumreading ObiWanShinobi?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 08:11 GMT
#655
Oh, and Holyflare, too. I'm too disorganized

Both questions to rsoultin, if it wasn't clear.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 08:13 GMT
#656
On December 27 2015 17:11 Trfel wrote:
Oh, and Holyflare, too. I'm too disorganized

Both questions to rsoultin, if it wasn't clear.
Wait, no, my question is why does rsoultin have a town lean on Holyflare.

Wow, this is horrid. What's happened to me English too hard...

我不会说英文。。。 可是也不会说中文。。。
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 08:27 GMT
#661
Thanks rsoultin, I guess I'll probably have to re-evaluate tomorrow. I can't trust myself to think right now

For later, but, that game where Holyflare questioned Alakaslam... Were you thinking of Guardians of the Galaxy mafia? Because that's the game I thought of, and I checked it, and it didn't feel similar to this at all. Though Holyflare is clearly using a different style this game (which I don't think is very alignment indicative, if anything slightly town indicative), so I don't feel comfortable with the meta.

Anyway, I'm not really sure about Holyflare All I do know is that I refuse to mislynch him, and I'm not going to scumread him for stupid reasons, but I suffer from extreme paranoia, so I have a lot of things to work through.

@ExO_, historically rsoultin has been good at tone reading Onegu. At least, I'm pretty sure that she thinks so
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 27 2015 08:44 GMT
#663
Evil list post time? Not necessarily in order.

Town - raynpelikoneet, Damdred, ritoky, Artanis[Xp]
Town Lean - sicklucker, ExO_, Koshi, GlowingBear, N e s s, Alakaslam

Suspicious-ish - rsoultin

I didn't check these that carefully, I'm tired. Really looking forward to the 24 hour pause in the game, of course it can't be enforced to not read the thread during this time, but is doing so bad form? As much as I'd love time to catch up with / analyze the game, if doing so is abuse, I won't do so.

The main reason I'm suspicious of rsoultin is that she's seemed present, but not really involved. Though, this is quite subjective, and I'll look again tomorrow. Like, maybe there are other causes, or maybe I'm perceiving it incorrectly, but it seems like rsoultin is choosing when to interact and what to talk about, instead of a genuine desire to figure out alignments? There's also a fair amount of meta which I think is good but could be stupid because I'm really bad at meta.

I don't see much reason to lynch nooniansoong, Tictock, or Vivax right now, to be honest.

Anyway, good night.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 06:29 GMT
#1300
Looks like I'm in for a very late night.

As of 30 pages ago, my reads were far too similar to sicklucker's for my liking, it seems like something is very wrong.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 07:02 GMT
#1304
On December 28 2015 15:36 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 15:29 Trfel wrote:
Looks like I'm in for a very late night.

As of 30 pages ago, my reads were far too similar to sicklucker's for my liking, it seems like something is very wrong.


Any particular reason why or is the fact that they're similar the thing that's bugging you in and of itself?
On December 27 2015 23:55 Damdred wrote:
SL I think your town...so I should lynch you right?
Basically what Damdred said. It's a lousy reason to scumread sicklucker, since last time I played with him, he was scum and I read him as scum, but it's still really, really weird. It does make me feel that my reads are horrible, though

Anyway, I don't think I'll be able to finish the thread before going to bed, yeesh. I'll take a much closer look at the main wagons if I can't finish, including ritoky's post above.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 07:08 GMT
#1307
Hey, Tictock, we appear to be at exactly the same place in the thread XD

What did you think about the Artanis/raynpelikoneet argument about GlowingBear a page or two ago?

Can you encourage me to keep reading and make it through?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 07:22 GMT
#1313
On December 28 2015 01:06 Holyflare wrote:
is it too late to /out this game? I only wanted to play in a mini with not shit people and came back to a full normal
Rsoultin (or anyone else), thoughts on this post?

I realize I'm behind, perhaps this was discussed already, but this post seems rather off to me.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 08:05 GMT
#1318
On December 28 2015 05:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well if anyone else wants to claim mason then please go a head in your next post.
It's the correct play.
So tempting

Side note, Holyflare is really confusing me, but I'd feel really really really bad if I mislynched him, and the "simple" answer is that he's town. On further thinking I don't think that the post I quoted a bit ago is important.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 08:17 GMT
#1323
On December 28 2015 17:14 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 16:22 Trfel wrote:
On December 28 2015 01:06 Holyflare wrote:
is it too late to /out this game? I only wanted to play in a mini with not shit people and came back to a full normal
Rsoultin (or anyone else), thoughts on this post?

I realize I'm behind, perhaps this was discussed already, but this post seems rather off to me.


what seems off about it?

sounds like standard ego/frustration which doesn't seem weird to me coming from hf or half the other players in this game lol ><
I forgot about one of his three pregame posts.

I was thinking he signed up as the first player in the game, and then tried to get the game started earlier, and then was making this post saying that he didn't want to put up with a game and only wanted to play with good people. But the post I forgot about showed that he wasn't actually that excited for this game, which makes his post make enough sense that I'll discount it.

I'm lazy, who should I vote for and why?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 09:04 GMT
#1331
I think I want to lynch nooniansoong.

"I'm going to try hard to work on read accuracy" -> "No reads for a while" -> Townread on Tictock -> Lots of posting with no effort to solve the game

There's really no desire to solve the game, despite him saying early on that he'd try hard to get accurate reads. The suspicions from his first post weren't followed up on at all, either. The number of posts that he made about the game without saying anything at all (his posts show that he knows he isn't doing anything) is remarkable.

Furthermore, the vote on Palmar, without caring to push it, and saying that he's willing to lynch about a dozen people for a policy lynch, seems very mafia-motivated. He's leaving his options open for later and not committing to anything.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 09:25 GMT
#1335
I read through some more stuff and I think nooniansoong is the best lynch. ObiWanShinobi could also be a good lynch, though.

@Vivax, why do you say this?
On December 28 2015 12:25 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 12:23 nooniansoong wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:19 ritoky wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:11 nooniansoong wrote:
Why does tt look bad? Ask the people who are scumreading him.

I believe, ows, you said tts posts are empty..something like that. Your posts are pretty empty too. Your content is similar to tt in its length and depth.


So you can understand why artanis is voting ows and you think it is similar, you find them both empty posters and you're just content to let them do fuck all for what reason? Since apparently you don't scum read either of them


Why does null reading someone equate to being content to let them do fuck all?


Town kush 100 % never backing off
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 09:35 GMT
#1338
On December 28 2015 18:27 Tictock wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 18:04 Trfel wrote:
I think I want to lynch nooniansoong.

"I'm going to try hard to work on read accuracy" -> "No reads for a while" -> Townread on Tictock -> Lots of posting with no effort to solve the game

There's really no desire to solve the game, despite him saying early on that he'd try hard to get accurate reads. The suspicions from his first post weren't followed up on at all, either. The number of posts that he made about the game without saying anything at all (his posts show that he knows he isn't doing anything) is remarkable.

Furthermore, the vote on Palmar, without caring to push it, and saying that he's willing to lynch about a dozen people for a policy lynch, seems very mafia-motivated. He's leaving his options open for later and not committing to anything.


Given how Kush played last game as town I'm not surprised by a lot of what you are calling him out for here.

His vote on Palmar is... meek? though, you have a point there.

Last game I remember Kush throwing his vote out early and without giving a shit.
I checked his filter from last game. It seemed remarkably different from this one. However, last game I checked MoosyDoosy's previous game and felt it was remarkably different from it, and he was town anyway, so I'm just bad. Meta aside....

It's mostly that nooniansoong doesn't seem to care about solving the game, but there are strange contrasts in his posting. Not having time to make reads but having time to talk a bunch about useless stuff. Seeming to care enough to tell people how to play, but at the same time spending several posts arguing about his "I have no reasons to think anything about this person at all". And that he seems to know more about the game than he lets on ("ObiWanShinobi looks scummy for similar reasons as Tictock"), but still doesn't actually care about the lynch at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 20:55 GMT
#1818
Bleh

Any summary of what's happened since I went to sleep?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:13 GMT
#1887
On December 27 2015 09:17 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 27 2015 09:13 Holyflare wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:12 N e s s wrote:
Alright, i'm just going to assume this started for now.

Also, i can't understand why lynching Mooseydoosey is a good idea what so ever. Why would you lynch someone not even an hour into Day 1?

But, nevertheless heres a few questions to get the ball rolling.

Answer these questions.

How much mafia experience do you have? I have played atleast 10 games up to this point.
How many times have you been mafia in your mafia meta? twice, won both times.
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.
If you saw 3 buttons, 1 being green, 1 being yellow, and 1 being red, which would you push? I'd push green.


Can you explain what you hoped to get out of these questions? I understand the first two purely from an analytical standpoint but the last two:

1)
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.


At this point in the game there had been about half a page of useless posts, if you yourself could not really come up with a person to lynch and your answer provides nothing in terms of a progressive thought what did you hope to achieve by asking people this same question? In your eyes this question should lead to nothing but redundant statements since you yourself could not see anything.

Furthermore I have qualms with the second half of the statement:

Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand


You have a list of four questions and they are all designed as you have said:

On December 27 2015 08:17 N e s s wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:16 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:12 N e s s wrote:
Alright, i'm just going to assume this started for now.

Also, i can't understand why lynching Mooseydoosey is a good idea what so ever. Why would you lynch someone not even an hour into Day 1?

But, nevertheless heres a few questions to get the ball rolling.

Answer these questions.

How much mafia experience do you have? I have played atleast 10 games up to this point.
How many times have you been mafia in your mafia meta? twice, won both times.
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.
If you saw 3 buttons, 1 being green, 1 being yellow, and 1 being red, which would you push? I'd push green.


1) 2 years of experience, basically
2) 8 times I think
3) ness
4) I'd push triangle

Question: how do you expect these questions will help you to find mafia?

It actually can be used later on in game, collecting answers usually helps me.


but you have currently exclaimed (in fact multiple times) that you are bemused by the fact that people are voting for MoosyDoosy yet this is not a feature in your questions at all.




If I were to purely judge your game plan by this post alone it would appear that you are trying to ask questions purely for the sake of asking questions (blending in) while not asking the intuitive questions that one in your position should be asking (why are people voting for Moosy?). This speaks to me as a mafia agenda and one which I am inclined to vote for.

Can you please answer the following for me?

1) Why did you not ask why people were voting for Moosy if you were concerned about this and instead ask people redundant questions?

2) What did you hope the answers from people would reveal?

3) If it was raining on a Tuesday in Spain what shape would a crocodile be if it was square?


THANK GOD someone gets what I'm saying.
This post made me feel that GlowingBear does actually care about the game and is emotionally invested. It didn't feel robotic at all to me.

I'd feel that mafia's first instinct would be to complain about people being stupid/paying him no attention, but instead GlowingBear seems actually happy that his arguments are being pursued.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:26 GMT
#1903
Does anyone want to lynch nooniansoong here, or should I give up?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:32 GMT
#1919
On December 29 2015 04:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If this is the reason people actually TR me I swear I'm going to shoot someone
Oh, wow, I was about to case Artanis but I guess he's actually town

Artanis, what's in the rest of the chart? Like, not the specifics, but how do you go about taking notes for the game?



On December 29 2015 07:29 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 07:26 Trfel wrote:
Does anyone want to lynch nooniansoong here, or should I give up?


he basically told me to go fuck myself and i thought it was town; why is he mafia?
Because he doesn't want to lynch Tictock, but he's not trying to do anything at all to vote for someone else or even explain why he's voting for Alakaslam (at least, I don't remember seeing anything).



Rsoultin, did you see the quote I brought up about GlowingBear (this page, or last page)? I don't feel that GlowingBear's tone is robotic in this game, and I believe that's the only reason you are scumreading him. Please explain?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:39 GMT
#1934
On December 29 2015 07:35 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
On December 29 2015 04:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If this is the reason people actually TR me I swear I'm going to shoot someone
Oh, wow, I was about to case Artanis but I guess he's actually town

Artanis, what's in the rest of the chart? Like, not the specifics, but how do you go about taking notes for the game?



On December 29 2015 07:29 ritoky wrote:
On December 29 2015 07:26 Trfel wrote:
Does anyone want to lynch nooniansoong here, or should I give up?


he basically told me to go fuck myself and i thought it was town; why is he mafia?
Because he doesn't want to lynch Tictock, but he's not trying to do anything at all to vote for someone else or even explain why he's voting for Alakaslam (at least, I don't remember seeing anything).



Rsoultin, did you see the quote I brought up about GlowingBear (this page, or last page)? I don't feel that GlowingBear's tone is robotic in this game, and I believe that's the only reason you are scumreading him. Please explain?


why him over moosy, boxerfred, and onegu who are doing pretty much the same thing?
Nooniansoong has been here and has been posting a lot, the other three have not. Nooniansoong has been clear about not liking the Tictock lynch, but hasn't even been pushing his lynch at all (while just being useless), while I don't recall the other three saying anything about Tictock.

Plus, nooniansoong's play has ~3 mindset contradictions that I feel are best explained by him being mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:46 GMT
#1961
On December 29 2015 05:46 Vivax wrote:
Im going to like the kush - TS exchange, kush might actually find points that point to TS being mafia
But he's still voting for Alakaslam this whole time, without talking about him, without ever trying to move the lynch.

This is not an attempt to solve the game. This is not actually caring about the game, or trying to find the best lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:52 GMT
#1983
On December 29 2015 07:49 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 07:46 Trfel wrote:
On December 29 2015 05:46 Vivax wrote:
Im going to like the kush - TS exchange, kush might actually find points that point to TS being mafia
But he's still voting for Alakaslam this whole time, without talking about him, without ever trying to move the lynch.

This is not an attempt to solve the game. This is not actually caring about the game, or trying to find the best lynch.


Trfel I see you voting off wagon and not really attempting to do anything with TT, why is that? I don't think you've really gone into a TT thought process much at all other than mentioning he's not a very good lynch? Not that I remember anyway.
I get the impression that Tictock actually is reading the thread, primarily because last night as I was catching up, he supposedly read 15-20 pages at the same time as I did. Like, he'd comment on posts every so often, and was basically on my pace the entire time. That seems difficult to fake.

I don't think that Tictock would actually put that much effort to read the thread and then not care to actually try to move the lynch as scum. I also don't think there is much reason to scumread him, notably I didn't like the criticisms of his first post (there were some reasons I wanted to townread Koshi then, and I liked that Tictock wasn't sharing a widely accepted read, but instead a more unique one).

The arguments against Tictock seem to be arguing that he's bad instead of that he's scum? Though I have not caught up yet and I have been reading quickly without having a chance to double check things.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 22:57 GMT
#2007
Bleh. Fine.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 28 2015 23:18 GMT
#2050
On December 29 2015 08:14 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 08:12 Damdred wrote:
Nah HF was trying to save the lynch I goofed and made it so that it wasn't saved.

Now if TT is town a lot of the people who switched vs people who just said fuck it and stayed is interesting.

yeah if tt is town there is good information here.
Huh? If it's both town, why does the vote switch provide any information whatsoever?

On December 29 2015 07:16 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 07:13 Trfel wrote:
On December 27 2015 09:17 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 27 2015 09:13 Holyflare wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:12 N e s s wrote:
Alright, i'm just going to assume this started for now.

Also, i can't understand why lynching Mooseydoosey is a good idea what so ever. Why would you lynch someone not even an hour into Day 1?

But, nevertheless heres a few questions to get the ball rolling.

Answer these questions.

How much mafia experience do you have? I have played atleast 10 games up to this point.
How many times have you been mafia in your mafia meta? twice, won both times.
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.
If you saw 3 buttons, 1 being green, 1 being yellow, and 1 being red, which would you push? I'd push green.


Can you explain what you hoped to get out of these questions? I understand the first two purely from an analytical standpoint but the last two:

1)
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.


At this point in the game there had been about half a page of useless posts, if you yourself could not really come up with a person to lynch and your answer provides nothing in terms of a progressive thought what did you hope to achieve by asking people this same question? In your eyes this question should lead to nothing but redundant statements since you yourself could not see anything.

Furthermore I have qualms with the second half of the statement:

Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand


You have a list of four questions and they are all designed as you have said:

On December 27 2015 08:17 N e s s wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:16 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 27 2015 08:12 N e s s wrote:
Alright, i'm just going to assume this started for now.

Also, i can't understand why lynching Mooseydoosey is a good idea what so ever. Why would you lynch someone not even an hour into Day 1?

But, nevertheless heres a few questions to get the ball rolling.

Answer these questions.

How much mafia experience do you have? I have played atleast 10 games up to this point.
How many times have you been mafia in your mafia meta? twice, won both times.
If you had to choose one person to lynch right now, who would it be? Honestly most of you are doing moose for reasons i can't understand, but right now basically nobody. I haven't read back.
If you saw 3 buttons, 1 being green, 1 being yellow, and 1 being red, which would you push? I'd push green.


1) 2 years of experience, basically
2) 8 times I think
3) ness
4) I'd push triangle

Question: how do you expect these questions will help you to find mafia?

It actually can be used later on in game, collecting answers usually helps me.


but you have currently exclaimed (in fact multiple times) that you are bemused by the fact that people are voting for MoosyDoosy yet this is not a feature in your questions at all.




If I were to purely judge your game plan by this post alone it would appear that you are trying to ask questions purely for the sake of asking questions (blending in) while not asking the intuitive questions that one in your position should be asking (why are people voting for Moosy?). This speaks to me as a mafia agenda and one which I am inclined to vote for.

Can you please answer the following for me?

1) Why did you not ask why people were voting for Moosy if you were concerned about this and instead ask people redundant questions?

2) What did you hope the answers from people would reveal?

3) If it was raining on a Tuesday in Spain what shape would a crocodile be if it was square?


THANK GOD someone gets what I'm saying.
This post made me feel that GlowingBear does actually care about the game and is emotionally invested. It didn't feel robotic at all to me.

I'd feel that mafia's first instinct would be to complain about people being stupid/paying him no attention, but instead GlowingBear seems actually happy that his arguments are being pursued.


I don't think that's alignment indicative at all since people can get frustrated from not being listened to just by virtue of not beng listened to but yeah I don't think he's robotic like TT/rsoul are making out, TT also seems to have not seen GB's interaction with me.
I guess this is worth discussing again.

I agree that both town and mafia can be frustrated just by not being listened to, however, my point is that I don't feel that GlowingBear was frustrated in this post. He seemed genuinely happy that someone was was thinking the same thing and pushing his arguments, which isn't something I'd expect from scum there (and does make sense from town).
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 04:10 GMT
#2111
On December 29 2015 13:01 Holyflare wrote:
On the one hand I disagree with pretty much everything he says and have no idea how he reached any of his conclusions.

On the other hand he was doing stuff just now whilst everyone afks and stuff like that.

Bit of a quandary.
If I tell you that he's town, will you believe me?

You probably shouldn't But I don't feel like he's been that wishy-washy with his posts, and I don't feel that his play is fitting a mafia motivation. What I was saying earlier about Tictock being town because he was catching up, I wasn't trying to say that he was town because he was reading the thread, but rather because he spent that much work reading the thread and then didn't care to respond to ritoky's case or defend himself. That doesn't seem very mafia-motivated to me and so I think that he is most likely town.

You said earlier that you gave Tictock an out but he didn't take it, what was the out that you gave him?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 06:49 GMT
#2118
On December 29 2015 15:42 Vivax wrote:
Id vote Artanis and Damdred for town leaders in this game
I'd vote for Artanis too

But seriously, I am fairly confident that Holyflare is town, and I still think that GlowingBear is likely town and nooniansoong is likely scum. Thoughts?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 08:25 GMT
#2166
Like, I don't see why that's mafia indicative?

If anything, I bet this would have been discussed in the mafia QT. I know I would have tried to discuss how to deal with the masons right when I saw the claim.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 08:45 GMT
#2179
On December 29 2015 17:41 ritoky wrote:
has anyone played with moosy more than once? and can they confirm the whole gives a shit = mafia; fucks off/does dumb shit = town read that he self-proclaims?
It's true, but MoosyDoosy is probably capable of replicating it as mafia, since not caring really isn't hard to fake.

I'd actually still go with it, I imagine that MoosyDoosy would have a fun time doing random stuff as mafia in a game like this, but I do note that MoosyDoosy didn't complain about rolling town at all, which I've come to expect from him.

I'm still embarrassed about my errant read on MoosyDoosy last game, especially since I figured out the problem with the read and then forgot what it was. So I'm kind of ignoring him this game

I'm tired and babbling, but to this point MoosyDoosy's self-meta is true.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 09:10 GMT
#2192
Kushm4sta is still my strongest scumread. I'm pretty confident in it.

But anyway, good night. And I'm not so sure that Vivax is mafia, I was kind of thinking he was town, but I didn't check what he did at End of Day.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 09:13 GMT
#2194
On December 29 2015 18:11 ExO_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 29 2015 18:00 ritoky wrote:
On December 29 2015 17:59 ExO_ wrote:
I don't even know. I've been flip flopping on what I think all day but by the end I was pretty sold on a TT lynch. I cannot believe so many people switched votes in the last couple of hours.

TT is talking so much now but I still tend to think he's scum. I think some of the people who switched off of TT are scum (Palmar is pretty glaring). And though I'm sure it'll change and he'll squirm and scream I think I'm going to tunnel Palmar.

And if somehow it becomes obvious that Vivax isn't JK, should lynch him too, imo.


Outside of palmar who else do you think is most likely scum flipper?


Without looking at it too closely, Damdred's flip seems suspect to me. I don't really like your flip either.

I need to go re-read what happened before I took a nap (that turned into like 4 hours of sleep lol) and see exactly how this went down.

And where the fuck is coag? For being basically confirmed masons, coag is being complete trash, and I'm not too happy with rsoultin either. I really hope a pair of masons CC them. But its irrationally stupid for both of them to be scum and claiming mason early, which mean coag just isn't giving a damn :/
You want to cc them with me? I would
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 29 2015 23:49 GMT
#2622
XD
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 07:41 GMT
#2762
I thought that Holyflare was town, but looking at how he responded to Artanis' suspicion, I'm not so sure

I am also confident that Palmar is mafia. I don't expect to catch up until the end of the 24 hour break, though.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 08:03 GMT
#2764
On December 30 2015 08:24 Holyflare wrote:
Hey it's that red check that now proves I'm town! Get rekt mafia.
Oh yeah, apparently some people were saying association things.

Stupid me for doubting my Holyflare read that was really smart
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 08:45 GMT
#2767
On December 30 2015 10:46 GlowingBear wrote:
I've just won a game of Hearthstone, and it was fucking weird.

I was against a Hunter. I'm Paladin.

He had Explosive Trap and I used Truesilver Champion. I had 2 health.

I attacked him, activated the secret, then I've reached 0 health. Then my hero attacked him and gained +2 health and I won the game.

WAT
Trfel #1580
Add me on Hearthstone?

I still feel like sicklucker is likely town, but I don't think I'll have time for serious analysis for a while. Palmar's filter size is a bit concerning, but his filter is extremely boring and doesn't feel at all like town!Palmar. Plus, his reaction to the Artanis night kill wasn't convincing.

Anyway, Tictock's play should be worthy of an award nomination ^^
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 17:02 GMT
#2860
For the record....

Tictock is 100% mafia and gets lynched here no matter what. Even if Damdred rescinds his gunsmith claim, five people counterclaim Onegu's cop claim, and Onegu posts baby seals, Tictock is STILL mafia and STILL gets lynched.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 21:11 GMT
#2914
On December 31 2015 06:05 ritoky wrote:
what time exactly does the game get paused for 24 hrs? EoD or?
10 AM Eastern, I believe.

Palmar is funny
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 30 2015 21:30 GMT
#2920
On December 31 2015 06:15 ritoky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2015 06:11 Trfel wrote:
On December 31 2015 06:05 ritoky wrote:
what time exactly does the game get paused for 24 hrs? EoD or?
10 AM Eastern, I believe.

Palmar is funny


thanx.

btw who are your top 2 mafia that aren't named palmar or tt?
Kushm4sta/nooniansoong, whichever name you prefer. After that I'm blank, but I figure that a 100% lynch and two very likely mafia to look more closely at later is good enough for now.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
December 31 2015 01:20 GMT
#2984
No clue what boxerfred's alignment was.

I guess I'm not going to try and figure it out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 01 2016 22:12 GMT
#3072
Holyflare, do you think that Palmar is mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 01 2016 23:16 GMT
#3137
I think I finally understand where raynpelikoneet is coming from.

There comes a point where you simply can't tolerate stupidity any more.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 00:01 GMT
#3185
Damdred is almost definitely town here, the fact that his claim was fake was fairly obvious.

I'm really not sure about Onegu. It seems that claiming to get Tictock lynched would be a really stupid one for one for mafia to take, but Onegu is the kind of player who just might do it anyway. I feel that he's a bit more likely town, but need to look again.

I never ever thought that someone would fake a red check for a significant amount of time. And I thought that people would always claim their role if they were about to get lynched. I feel so stupid.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 05:24 GMT
#3283
On January 02 2016 13:31 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 13:25 ritoky wrote:
On January 02 2016 12:59 nooniansoong wrote:
Clarification to my earlier post: My angle is that ritoky shouldn't be scumreading you for that, not that you are scum because of that.


who should i be town reading that i am not? (yourself excluded)


Palmar ,not sure who else
Why are you townreading Palmar?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 07:40 GMT
#3286
On January 02 2016 16:25 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 14:34 ExO_ wrote:
Why in the world are you town reading palmar? Both Artanis/rayn were reading palmar as scum. His play this game makes me think he's scum.


Elaborate pls?
Do you have a read on Palmar yet?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 09:58 GMT
#3291
MoosyDoosy, why is The Shining mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 10:23 GMT
#3294
Insert Cool Title Here

Town

Damdred
+ Show Spoiler +
Tone read and meta read. Either way, his alignment will be resolved soon enough. If he is town (which I'm pretty sure he is), he'll force mafia to shoot him. If not, he's mafia.

ExO_
+ Show Spoiler +
Seems very emotional and invested in the game, and has a lot of strange theories. I should probably look through his filter more carefully at some point, but now isn't the time.

Koshi
+ Show Spoiler +
Feels like town due to effort. Again, if he's town mafia will be forced to shoot him.

ritoky
+ Show Spoiler +
Eh, I'm bored of writing about townreads. I don't really know why he's town, but he is. I think. Kinda. Anyway.

Coagulation

Town Lean

Holyflare
+ Show Spoiler +
His filter is too long for me to read through completely, but I feel that Holyflare is town. The main reason for this is that his posting tone/direction has changed over the course of the game, and it felt like it changed at a time that was town-motivated, not at a time that was mafia-motivated.

For now, anyway.

Onegu
+ Show Spoiler +
His tone feels a bit relaxed and free, which seems more like his town play than his mafia play. But I really don't think that mafia would claim a red check just because they feel like it, that gains a ton of extra attention and is a ton of risk (the best result being killing someone who was already lynchbait). Furthermore, his afk since claiming the red check makes me feel that this play wouldn't be from mafia!Onegu doing it purely for the fun factor, as Onegu loves playing scum and I'd feel like he'd want to be posting while he was "confirmed" town due to his claim.

sicklucker
+ Show Spoiler +
I like how he started out the game with a scumread on Holyflare. This doesn't feel like something that mafia would be inclined to do.

Sicklucker seems to genuinely care about the game, one example being how adamant he was about not lynching Vivax until later.

MoosyDoosy
+ Show Spoiler +
If he were mafia, he would play more seriously, and he wouldn't have risked not voting. At least, I think, anyway.

GlowingBear
+ Show Spoiler +
GlowingBear's posting has felt genuine, and there's a drive to solve the game. Both raynpelikoneet and rsoultin had him at fairly confident townreads when they died. If I have more time, I'll look more closely at his filter.

In general, GlowingBear's constant suspicions of Holyflare seemed towny (not necessarily due to the reasoning itself, but the way that he pursued it).

The Shining
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm not so sure about this read. The Shining's posting feels more free this game, like his town play, and his posts seem to be trying to solve the game. However, his reaction to the Day 2 flip was underwhelming, he didn't seem to respond at all to his reads being wrong. Furthermore, his play dropped off significantly, but that's not necessarily mafia-indicative.

Overall I still feel like he's town, but I'm not very confident.

Vivax
+ Show Spoiler +
I'm tired. Vivax is here primarily for filter length, as Vivax is generally rather inactive as mafia.

Alakaslam
+ Show Spoiler +
Still tired. Tone read.


Mafia Lean

ObiWanShinobi
+ Show Spoiler +
He's just.... not doing anything at all.

He's not making any useful thoughts, he's not being commanding, he's just following the lead that everyone else is providing. He's just doing whatever, not trying to solve the game.

One example of this is ObiWanShinobi's read on boxerfred. He initially said that people scumreading boxerfred for doing nothing is bad, because boxerfred did nothing and got mislynched for it as town. However, when boxerfred continued to be useless, Holyflare said that he wanted to lynch boxerfred on Day 3, and ObiWanShinobi said that he agreed without mentioning boxerfred in between.

Palmar
+ Show Spoiler +
Palmar's play this game is very serious. This is strange, because in general, Palmar plays seriously as mafia and does random things and generally doesn't care that much when he is town.

For example, see Mini Mafia Down Under 2, where Palmar has a conversation with at least one other Palmar, perhaps two. Instead of playing the game. He was town. And Gaiden 2, where Palmar started out with a very confident scumread of justanothertownie, and keeps pushing this read to ridiculous extremes. After dropping this read, Palmar's activity also drops off.

Compare this to Palmar's mafia play. See Completely Normal Generic Mini Mafia, for example, where Palmar starts with a few jokes, and then plays the game in a "normal" fashion. Which Palmar basically never does as town.

To clarify, it's not necessarily the effort that Palmar puts in, but the way he goes about it. And the way he plays the game here is from a more serious mindset, much more like Palmar's mafia play than his town play.

Anyway, meta aside...

Palmar starts the game by townreading ExO_ and Koshi, and being suspicious of kushm4sta/nooniansoong. He eventually says that nooniansoong is a fine lynch, and then decides to sheep raynpelikoneet on Tictock without really caring about his previous read on nooniansoong.
On December 29 2015 19:35 Palmar wrote:
Don't worry, apparently I'm mafia and I have no credit in the thread.

Btw, because I'm already scummy. I'm going to direct blues for a bit.

Gunsmiths: it's super duper important you give your guns to non-retards. Give them to people who know how to use vigilante roles.

Here's a guide for those who want to become good vigilantes: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/232671-how-to-play-vigilante-and-how-to-play-cop

Also, because I'm tired of everyone's shit, I wouldn't mind getting cop checked at all. I normally say it's a waste but I might not have the energy to argue myself out of a lynch this game (and the deadline is literally at 23:00 new year's eve my time... so I will be drunk and playing with fireworks instead of playing mafia).
Just noticed this. If Palmar is willing to direct power roles, is he really suggesting that the cop should claim a green check to save him from being lynched?!?! That's a really bad idea. While at the same time saying that he's trustworthy enough to get a gun?

Palmar simply hasn't done that much. By far the biggest thing he did was the Artanis scumread. I'm not positive on Palmar's alignment, but he is very suspicious.


Mafia

nooniansoong
+ Show Spoiler +
Or kushm4sta, whichever you prefer.

I'm just going to go through and mention everything that I think is important, I'll summarize at the end.
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 27 2015 10:57 nooniansoong wrote:
Hi everybody. I'm a kush smurf.
This game I am going to try hard to work on read accuracy.

I just did a quick read through. Exo gave me mafia feels in his few posts, but that doesn't mean much.

I liked hf's first post. Then ness said he needed to write a lot in defense. Ness, I urge you to write as little as possible while still honestly addressing hf's concerns.
On December 28 2015 00:51 nooniansoong wrote:
Hi again guys. It's kush, checking in. I have been reading/skimming/skipping rayns posts, but I haven't had the time to close read anything. Some people are talking too much.
Right now I have zero reads.

I realize I am a null read at best, and if you want to lynch me I won't stand in your way. I am also signed up for the newbie game so I won't be mafialess for long.

Don't get me wrong, I do want to play in this game. I simply don't have the time to keep up with 20 people's spam. Expect reads from me d2 at the latest.

Thank you for your time,
Kush
Where did his earlier reads go, or were they really not worth mentioning? And why did he mention them, then? Note that he gave advice to both N e s s and ExO_, his only suspicions at this point in the thread.

At this point, the vote count was 5 votes for Vivax and 3 votes for Tictock. Nooniansoong's read on Tictock:
On December 28 2015 06:04 nooniansoong wrote:
TT was very try hard as mafia last game. I suppose his play could be scum feeling mafia fatigue. I think he is more likely low effort town.
On December 28 2015 06:14 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 06:09 Holyflare wrote:
On December 28 2015 06:04 nooniansoong wrote:
TT was very try hard as mafia last game. I suppose his play could be scum feeling mafia fatigue. I think he is more likely low effort town.


So what you're saying is you're mafia with TMI


I based my read on two pieces of information.
1 He played try hard scum last game. I was in that game with him and I remember it very well.
2 I read his filter this game and it looks much lower effort than his mafia game.

I don't think it's tmi.
On December 28 2015 06:31 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 06:27 Holyflare wrote:
On December 28 2015 06:14 nooniansoong wrote:
On December 28 2015 06:09 Holyflare wrote:
On December 28 2015 06:04 nooniansoong wrote:
TT was very try hard as mafia last game. I suppose his play could be scum feeling mafia fatigue. I think he is more likely low effort town.


So what you're saying is you're mafia with TMI


I based my read on two pieces of information.
1 He played try hard scum last game. I was in that game with him and I remember it very well.
2 I read his filter this game and it looks much lower effort than his mafia game.

I don't think it's tmi.


And then you said he could be burnt out and made the leap to him being town instead...?


There is no leap. His activity points to two options: burnt out scum or town. Which of those he is, I do not know. However, I do not think his lack of activity and the emptiness of his posts is a scumtell, due to his last scumgame. That is what most people are basing the scumread on.

Is he burnt out scum or town? If his behavior doesn't point to one being more likely than the other, than it is more likely he is town, simply because town is the more abundant role.

On December 28 2015 06:59 nooniansoong wrote:
@rayn the game was nutcracker.

@hf it's not a leap precisely because i dont have a view on all the other players in the game. Objectively town is more abundant. that is a fact before reads.
Nooniansoong doesn't seem to care about Tictock's alignment at all, the most common thing that he says is that Tictock could be scum or town, but he isn't sure which.
On December 28 2015 06:19 nooniansoong wrote:
I am going to put my vote down on palmar. It's a quasi-placeholder vote.

Palmar is missing d1 and according to his meta he is a d1 player. I think he's going to be unreadable regardless of his alignment so he's a good policy lynch.
And after this he says he has no scum reads. Nooniansoong proceeds to question sicklucker a bit, and then says that ObiWanShinobi looks bad for similar reasons to why Tictock looks bad (which he doesn't think makes Tictock look bad). Which again says nothing and shows no interest in the game.

And all of this time, he hasn't said a single thing about the leading wagon, Vivax, despite making many posts that don't say anything.
On December 28 2015 12:39 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 12:29 ritoky wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:23 nooniansoong wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:19 ritoky wrote:
On December 28 2015 12:11 nooniansoong wrote:
Why does tt look bad? Ask the people who are scumreading him.

I believe, ows, you said tts posts are empty..something like that. Your posts are pretty empty too. Your content is similar to tt in its length and depth.


So you can understand why artanis is voting ows and you think it is similar, you find them both empty posters and you're just content to let them do fuck all for what reason? Since apparently you don't scum read either of them


Why does null reading someone equate to being content to let them do fuck all?


prior to your post while I was typing mine you hadn't engaged either when both are here to get a read plus you're not pushing for anything. From what I remember you're default sitting on palmar and content to let people fuck off.


I don't have a scumread to push.
I engage people when it is convenient.

My vote for palmar is a vote for a policy lynch. It can be interchanged with about a dozen other players. I think he is a good policy lynch but it's not super important to me.
Here he says that his vote on Palmar is a policy lynch, and implies that he wants to policy lynch.
On December 28 2015 12:40 nooniansoong wrote:
Apologizes for not consolidating this post but goodnight all. I will try to get to any questions at lunch tomorrow in approximately 13 hours.
And here, he's saying that he wants to come back so that he can answer questions, not to come back so that he can solve the game and lynch mafia. Despite saying that he's willing to be lynched, he seems much more apologetic than interested in finding mafia.

By the time that nooniansoong returns, Palmar has made several more posts. He says that ExO_ is town for a tinfoil hat theory about the mason claims, and says that he might want to lynch nooniansoong. There's also a post that can be sort of interpreted to be a townread on Koshi. Nooniansoong responds as follows:
On December 28 2015 21:24 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 21:21 ExO_ wrote:
On December 28 2015 21:15 nooniansoong wrote:
On December 28 2015 21:10 ExO_ wrote:
On December 28 2015 21:08 Palmar wrote:
On December 28 2015 21:05 ExO_ wrote:
On December 28 2015 21:01 Palmar wrote:
On December 28 2015 20:57 ExO_ wrote:
On December 28 2015 20:25 Palmar wrote:
On December 28 2015 20:19 ExO_ wrote:
[quote]

We talking about the flying cows post? Or perhaps the one about the spiders dancing for the Queen of England, before eating her alive!

Oh wait, just like the post with your solid thinking, none of those exist.


Just because I'm a nice guy (really...)

On December 28 2015 18:50 Palmar wrote:
Exo is probably town. Also, I've read about 10 posts in the thread now and checked a few filter lengths. I'm glad rayn is playing and HF has a shorter than expected filter. But I haven't really read anything from either of them yet.

The reason I'm giving exo a maybe townread is his tinfoil hat theory regarding the mason claims. Most players who construct convoluted conspiracy theories, end up being townies. (If Exo is mafia, he would already know whether or not one or more of the mason claimers are mafia, so creating a theory becomes both more difficult, and it would make him worry about appearing to have extra information).


The idea here is that I called you town and gave a reason for it.

For the sake of this exercise let's consider you town, because otherwise this is a pointless effort.

So as a townie, you have just been called town by someone, your job is now to figure out:

a) Did Palmar want to call me town and made up some excuse to do it
b) Did Palmar see something he found interesting, and made a conclusion based on the evidence

These are really the only two options, you either believe the reason I gave for giving you a "maybe townread", or you don't. Ticktock probably reached the conclusion that my train of thought is genuine, that I actually believe you wouldn't come up with the theory you came up with as mafia, and thus my post was sincere.

Now, interestingly, it's my job to try to figure out if Ticktock genuinely liked my post, or if he just saw me post something with some reasoning and decided to call me town for it because he wanted to do that anyway.


I think it's a really easy read. What's interesting to me is you mention what went down with rsoultin/coag and the masons. So clearly you've read the thread. However you've only townread me so far, which is a pretty easy call to make at this point. Which makes me think you're trying to get town points for town reading me, when in reality it was a very easy thing to do.

Town reading me can't be the only thing you have to offer. There's nothing particularly insightful about going along with what the rest of the thread has said before you. Any other thoughts, any scum reads? So far I think you look far more scummy trying to win a bit of town cred, than a late-to-the-party townie trying to solve the game.


I haven't read the thread. I've skimmed like 2 filters and read these last 2-3 pages.



To be honest I don't believe you. If you were skimming around the part where I went off on rsoultin/coag you should know that I've been town read by most everyone.

That being the case, it'd be easy to call me town, and what I said about trying to get town cred for making a townie read that everyone else has already made holds true.


I had no idea anyone else called you town. If you want a full disclosure on how I obtained the read on you it was like this:

I respect rayn as a player so I clicked his filter and went right to his last page. on the top of page 8 of rayn's filter there is a conversation that involves all the required knowledge for me to draw the conclusions I have drawn (both about coag/rsoultin being the masons, and the evidence I used to draw the conclusion you might be town).



You'll get no town cred from me, scum


Why scum rather than null?


The progression of our conversation just now:

Palmar hasn't been around at all for this game so far
Enters the thread by by town reading me, specifically for the masons incident with rsoultin/coag
Claims he hasn't read any of the thread and that had no idea anybody else town read me

I'm not sure I believe his claim that he's read so little, or that he had no idea anybody else townread me. I think he's lying, and therefore I think he's scum.


So you think he read a lot and is saying he didn't read anything because it makes him look townier?

Really? Not reading the thread is very believable to me.
On December 28 2015 23:32 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 23:02 Palmar wrote:
Although I<script id="gpt-impl-0.3554030756292448" src="http://partner.googleadservices.com/gpt/pubads_impl_78.js"></script>'m annoyed kush hasn't responded to me about why he implied to exo that I should be a null read.


I don't know what you are looking for here but okay... I didn't think you had done anything that warrented a scumread. You read a filter and called someone town from what you read. You approached the game in the same way I would if I were in your position of having 60 unread pages.
So Exo's sudden scumread of you seemed inappropriate, and I wanted to get a better idea of what logic he was basing it on.
I suppose I can understand Exo thinking you might be scum playing dumb in order to excuse yourself from having to look townie.
On December 29 2015 00:46 nooniansoong wrote:
My vote on palmar is definitely bad now that he has showed up, but I don't know who to change it to yet.
Alaka for now.
He's not saying that Palmar is town, it seems that his read switched because he wanted to lynch an inactive player and Palmar was posting. He also says that Vivax is just as scummy as all of the other inactives:
On December 29 2015 00:08 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 28 2015 23:58 Holyflare wrote:
On December 28 2015 23:56 Vivax wrote:
On December 28 2015 23:31 Holyflare wrote:
I think we just lynch the people that blindly didn't want to lynch vivax a while ago, that is guaranteed mafia. As for names I'll find them.


That would make them mafia why? Are you going to lynch anyone who wasnt your bitch? Eradicate some intelligence from this game?


Well if perchance you are town then the people that aren't following a good case of vivax does shit all as mafia early in the game and we should pressure him generally have TMI and are mafia themselves, there is 0 reason to not form a wagon on you to make you do stuff unless they are scared to look out of place and are mafia.


Well there is SL's argument that he is easier to read as the game progresses.

Then there is someone else's argument that low activity is not scum indicative for vivax, since he has been known to play like that as town. Which makes him only as scummy as all the other inactives.
But decides to vote for Alakaslam instead of Vivax, no explanation given.

Nooniansoong then questions Holyflare and The Shining, and ends up saying that Vivax and Holyflare are both town. At this point, nooniansoong is opposed to the Tictock wagon, which is by far the biggest, and his vote is still on a policy lynch. He doesn't seem to care at all. He returns after the lynch, saying that he really wanted to see Tictock flip. This doesn't make sense at all, this feels very mafia motivated to let town flail wildly while just not caring.

From this point, nooniansoong's play changes a bit, and he seems to play with a direction of trying to solve the game.
On December 30 2015 04:07 nooniansoong wrote:
off the cuff scumlist
7. damdred
9. Exo_
17. Trfel
18. ObiWanShinobi
19. The Shining

who the fuck knows
8. Waylanner (replaced by ObviousOne)
13. Mooseeeeeeeeydooseeeeeey
24. Alakaslam
He ends up with this scum list, which doesn't appear to be extremely thorough, and then has a town lean on boxerfred and defends Palmar from Artanis. He doesn't explain his scum reads at all (he's commented a little bit on The Shining and ExO_ in the past, though).
On December 30 2015 21:16 nooniansoong wrote:
Bf...I'm conflicted. His logic is so weird. Too weird to be scum maybe?
This is strange because nooniansoong wasn't conflicted when he had a town lean on boxerfred earlier. It's especially strange because this post was made after boxerfred did more of the exact same thing that nooniansoong thought was towny.

Nooniansoong again says that he has no reads. A bit later:
On December 31 2015 08:23 Holyflare wrote:
Bf/TT/Slam/Palmar (ness/oo/kushmaybenot/someone else)
On December 31 2015 08:30 nooniansoong wrote:
pretty good list
But Nooniansoong is null to town on boxerfred, doesn't know about Alakaslam, not providing a read on but defending Palmar, and hasn't mentioned the rest. If this is indeed a good list in his opinion, that means that nooniansoong has changed his reads dramatically, without mentioning them at all. And while having no reads.
On December 31 2015 11:15 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2015 10:42 Holyflare wrote:
2 mafia in one day, sweet!

dunno about that
No clue why he liked Holyflare's list at all.

Nooniansoong seems to be suspicious of ExO_, and says he's townreading ritoky, Palmar, and sicklucker. And that's all of his filter.

In conclusion, nooniansoong isn't trying to solve the game. He's commenting on things and not investigating, and he didn't care at all about the Day 1 lynch. He's almost certainly mafia.


Some of my town leans are weak, I'll revisit them. I'm pretty sure that at least 2/3 scumreads are correct, hopefully all three.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 02 2016 21:08 GMT
#3355
Okay, my townreads aren't great, but my scumreads are amazing. It would be nice if people would care about those.

This game reminds me a bit of Alakaslam's play in Guardians of the Galaxy, where he played more "seriously" as town. The combination of making actual, "normal" reads and still using chupazi. I'm used to mafia!Alakaslam relying purely on chupazi as a survival mechanism, here he's aggressively pushing things.

Out for the rest of the night phase. I will probably not be online for the deadline of Day 3, since I'll be in the airport ish at that time, not exactly sure how things will work out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 02:38 GMT
#3420
On January 03 2016 08:11 ritoky wrote:
because i read you town, and i figured if 1 of you and onegu is mafia or both are mafia, then i am getting roleblocked and i know it. if both of you are town they are gonna let my bullet through so i started working on other people to shoot. and between myself and hf i arrived at moosy and slam. i sent about 9 pms to the mods....i really wish i had shot slam now.
Why did you not consider Palmar, ObiWanShinobi, and nooniansoong?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 03:18 GMT
#3431
I don't understand why people don't want to lynch nooniansoong.

He's not doing anything, he's just existing. Seriously, he's not invested in the game at all, just going with the flow.

It's the same thing as ObiWanShinobi and Palmar. If people are pushing town all the time (Vivax, Tictock, Rels, Tictock again), why does mafia need to do anything? Mafia will sit back and go with it, let town argue about it. That's what nooniansoong, ObiWanShinobi, and Palmar have been doing this entire time.

I definitely see Damdred's point about NocturneMage, however I felt that N e s s's play seemed like town, and I'm not yet comfortable reading NocturneMage from these posts. The contrast is also a bit weaker because this is a much, much larger game than the last one NocturneMage replaced into.

I'll take another look at Alakaslam, but my impressions from his filter weren't aligned with most of the things that ritoky was saying.

On January 03 2016 00:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 02 2016 19:23 Trfel wrote:ObiWanShinobi
+ Show Spoiler +
He's just.... not doing anything at all.

He's not making any useful thoughts, he's not being commanding, he's just following the lead that everyone else is providing. He's just doing whatever, not trying to solve the game.

One example of this is ObiWanShinobi's read on boxerfred. He initially said that people scumreading boxerfred for doing nothing is bad, because boxerfred did nothing and got mislynched for it as town. However, when boxerfred continued to be useless, Holyflare said that he wanted to lynch boxerfred on Day 3, and ObiWanShinobi said that he agreed without mentioning boxerfred in between.


I didn't know I needed reasons to kill someone useless - I can concede that someone is probably town and useless but that doesn't make being useless a good thing.
So then the question becomes, did ObiWanShinobi have actual scumreads at the time he said that he would be willing to lynch boxerfred.

If he did, then this is very suspicious. If not, then I'm less sure. I'll try and check that tonight as well.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 03:20 GMT
#3433
The Shining, please be town, and please help me.

If my reads are horrible and stupid, or don't make people scum, please tell me. And if it's just that they don't make people scum, if you could explain why, that would be great?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 03:24 GMT
#3435
On January 03 2016 12:20 The Shining wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2016 12:18 Trfel wrote:
I don't understand why people don't want to lynch nooniansoong.

He's not doing anything, he's just existing. Seriously, he's not invested in the game at all, just going with the flow.

It's the same thing as ObiWanShinobi and Palmar. If people are pushing town all the time (Vivax, Tictock, Rels, Tictock again), why does mafia need to do anything? Mafia will sit back and go with it, let town argue about it. That's what nooniansoong, ObiWanShinobi, and Palmar have been doing this entire time.

I definitely see Damdred's point about NocturneMage, however I felt that N e s s's play seemed like town, and I'm not yet comfortable reading NocturneMage from these posts. The contrast is also a bit weaker because this is a much, much larger game than the last one NocturneMage replaced into.

I'll take another look at Alakaslam, but my impressions from his filter weren't aligned with most of the things that ritoky was saying.

On January 03 2016 00:21 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
On January 02 2016 19:23 Trfel wrote:ObiWanShinobi
+ Show Spoiler +
He's just.... not doing anything at all.

He's not making any useful thoughts, he's not being commanding, he's just following the lead that everyone else is providing. He's just doing whatever, not trying to solve the game.

One example of this is ObiWanShinobi's read on boxerfred. He initially said that people scumreading boxerfred for doing nothing is bad, because boxerfred did nothing and got mislynched for it as town. However, when boxerfred continued to be useless, Holyflare said that he wanted to lynch boxerfred on Day 3, and ObiWanShinobi said that he agreed without mentioning boxerfred in between.


I didn't know I needed reasons to kill someone useless - I can concede that someone is probably town and useless but that doesn't make being useless a good thing.
So then the question becomes, did ObiWanShinobi have actual scumreads at the time he said that he would be willing to lynch boxerfred.

If he did, then this is very suspicious. If not, then I'm less sure. I'll try and check that tonight as well.


Why was Ness town to you?
To be honest, I don't remember so well. Mostly, he seemed very determined and had a high post count. He had mafia experience on other sites, so maybe he would play like that as mafia, but it's not the simple explanation. He kept coming back and arguing about things, it seemed like he genuinely cared about the game, and his filter was one of the longest while he was playing. His frustration with TL Mafia was clearly true as well, even if not necessarily alignment indicative.

I mean, yeah, he could be mafia, but I feel like town is a much simpler explanation. And the simple explanation is generally always correct.

I'll take another look if you'd like, you seem fairly convinced about it. But later, I need to head out now.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 03:33 GMT
#3439
On January 03 2016 12:28 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Actually I'm going to go out and respond to it because why not.

I was voting Tt pretty much the entire time so it's untrue.
Even if it wasn't, bf still would have been a fantastic lynch for being useless.

That is nothing like what I said at all. Nice reading comprehension.

Sorry TS, busy.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 08:23 GMT
#3471
My point with regards to ObiWanShinobi earlier wasn't a scumread at all. It was a mental note to check something that is important.

I remember ObiWanShinobi not having many serious reads. On Day 2, he was scumreading Tictock (as was basically everyone else), and voting for Tictock. Then, when Holyflare said that he wanted to lynch boxerfred on Day 3, ObiWanShinobi said that he agreed with this.

ObiWanShinobi's last stance on boxerfred was a town lean, described in two separate posts. I was wondering what caused this change. He explained this change to be caused because he felt like he had to lynch someone who was being useless, even if he didn't necessarily think that they were scum. Or something like that, I can't look it up at this moment. This part isn't important, he's not scum for this statement IMO, but rather the context.

The motivation to lynch boxerfred may be there, but wasn't that high. If ObiWanShinobi had an actual scumread that he wanted to lynch, I would expect him to not want to lynch boxerfred to lynch his actual scumread instead. Day 3, so Tictock would already be lynched, and he wouldn't count. And the magnitude of this scumread would need to be judged versus the reason and explanation to scumread boxerfred, and see how they compare. And I'd need to double check the wording, perhaps ObiWanShinobi's agreement with Holyflare was more of consent than thinking it was the best option, as I read it initially.

Anyway. The Shining, I don't need to actually be present for you to tell me if my reads have any merit or not. My reads are summarized in my interpretation of the people who are commenting and existing without contributing or trying to solve the game. The details are more accurately explained in my list post about 24 hours ago. Unfortunately, because no one seems to care about my reads, I'm feeling like I'm probably just really wrong I'd really, really, really appreciate some feedback, though.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 08:29 GMT
#3473
On January 03 2016 17:28 sicklucker wrote:
so i came back expecting some good discussion but it was mostly people trying to figure out ness whos going to be mod killed...

used your time better boys
Um, NocturneMage replaced in for N e s s.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 08:40 GMT
#3478
Sicklucker, sorry I'm a bit distracted at the moment and am too lazy to read your filter.

Who do you currently want to lynch and why? And why don't you want to lynch nooniansoong/kushm4sta, Palmar, or ObiWanShinobi?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 09:24 GMT
#3484
Yeah, here's my thing on ObiWanShinobi.

On December 28 2015 00:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Fwiw BF posting nothing is reminiscent of some game where he was town and people lynched him for doing it.
They were quite upset after he flipped so I'm not sure we can really read into him being bad all that much.
On December 30 2015 10:02 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Why do people think Shining is town again? Someone remind me because he's a likely day 3 lynch candidate imho.
On December 30 2015 10:20 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 10:03 Holyflare wrote:
No you lynch BF 100% after TT


Sure, don't need to tell me twice.
I don't like this at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 10:10 GMT
#3487
Meh, maybe Alakaslam is mafia after all

Holyflare's comment about Alakaslam's tone towards N e s s was fairly accurate as well, and Alakaslam has seemed disinterested in the thread. He's generally been pushing something, but he's focused on very specific parts of the thread, always separated from the main topics and not involving himself much in the lynches.

I can still see him being town, though, without too much effort... Bleh.

Can someone please comment on the three ObiWanShinobi quotes I provided above? This is one example of the overall impression I got from ObiWanShinobi's filter, that he's been following other people instead of pushing his own reads and ideas.

Anyway, good night.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 10:12 GMT
#3489
On January 03 2016 19:11 sicklucker wrote:
what has slam pushed...
He pushed N e s s for a while, and then ExO_. Lately, not much, but that's sort of understandable ish.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 21:32 GMT
#3601
On January 04 2016 00:19 sicklucker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 00:08 nooniansoong wrote:
On January 04 2016 00:03 Damdred wrote:
That's 4 dumb votes on onegu today


why is onegu town again?


this is onegus town meta/play sadly. its not really slam/nocts etcs play
Why do you think that this is not Alakaslam's town play? What do Alakaslam's town and scum playstyles look like to you?

And can someone please respond to a single one of the questions I've spent the last 48 hours trying to get answered? Please?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 21:58 GMT
#3604
On January 04 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote:
You are trying to take null things kush and turn them into town type motives.

Most of the thread had reactions that were not dissimilar to what palmar posted. At best this is a null as scum are looking just as much as town where to put votes and more than likely palmar vote was already on Rels.

Secondly of course palmar doesn't want to be shot this is totally null.

1) Town palmar doesn't want to get shot because he's town and can help to try to win the game.

2) Scum palmar doesn't want to be shot because he's scum,and wants to,win. And thinks he can talk his way out of getting lynched with a large effort.

It's totally null, and I'm really concerned now that you are trying to tr palmar for such weak things.
I was about to make a post explaining this, but thanks Damdred for doing it for me.

Nooniansoong isn't trying to solve the game, he's just commenting and defending some people (mostly Palmar) instead of being interested in his scumreads. His latest defense of Palmar is a great example of this.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:03 GMT
#3607
On January 04 2016 06:57 Damdred wrote:
The way you are treating slam is very strange trfel. Can you explain your progress trfel.
I thought that he was town, now I'm not sure.

I thought that he was town for activity and investment in the game. However, after his first series or two of posts, his activity dropped off a lot, and he hasn't felt interested in the game at all lately. His tone still seems towny as a whole, however Holyflare's point that Alakaslam was heavily scumreading N e s s but still giving him advice as if he were town looks quite strange, given the heavy tone contrast.

I really don't know what to think of Alakaslam, I'm simply not used to him playing the game as mafia. But I'm not really used to him playing the game as town, either...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:05 GMT
#3608
On January 04 2016 07:00 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 06:58 Trfel wrote:
On January 04 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote:
You are trying to take null things kush and turn them into town type motives.

Most of the thread had reactions that were not dissimilar to what palmar posted. At best this is a null as scum are looking just as much as town where to put votes and more than likely palmar vote was already on Rels.

Secondly of course palmar doesn't want to be shot this is totally null.

1) Town palmar doesn't want to get shot because he's town and can help to try to win the game.

2) Scum palmar doesn't want to be shot because he's scum,and wants to,win. And thinks he can talk his way out of getting lynched with a large effort.

It's totally null, and I'm really concerned now that you are trying to tr palmar for such weak things.
I was about to make a post explaining this, but thanks Damdred for doing it for me.

Nooniansoong isn't trying to solve the game, he's just commenting and defending some people (mostly Palmar) instead of being interested in his scumreads. His latest defense of Palmar is a great example of this.


"isn't trying to solve the game" is exactly the type of generic wording scum loves to use when describing their fake scumreads.
Nooniansoong, can you please explain why you are scumreading me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:09 GMT
#3610
On January 04 2016 07:07 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 07:05 Trfel wrote:
On January 04 2016 07:00 nooniansoong wrote:
On January 04 2016 06:58 Trfel wrote:
On January 04 2016 06:55 Damdred wrote:
You are trying to take null things kush and turn them into town type motives.

Most of the thread had reactions that were not dissimilar to what palmar posted. At best this is a null as scum are looking just as much as town where to put votes and more than likely palmar vote was already on Rels.

Secondly of course palmar doesn't want to be shot this is totally null.

1) Town palmar doesn't want to get shot because he's town and can help to try to win the game.

2) Scum palmar doesn't want to be shot because he's scum,and wants to,win. And thinks he can talk his way out of getting lynched with a large effort.

It's totally null, and I'm really concerned now that you are trying to tr palmar for such weak things.
I was about to make a post explaining this, but thanks Damdred for doing it for me.

Nooniansoong isn't trying to solve the game, he's just commenting and defending some people (mostly Palmar) instead of being interested in his scumreads. His latest defense of Palmar is a great example of this.


"isn't trying to solve the game" is exactly the type of generic wording scum loves to use when describing their fake scumreads.
Nooniansoong, can you please explain why you are scumreading me?


See the post of mine you just quoted.
So you don't think that mafia loves to quote a post from someone and say why it's scummy?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:15 GMT
#3612
On January 04 2016 07:11 nooniansoong wrote:
i explained why it's scummy in the post. Your scumreads lack depth on thought.
You dodged the question that I asked.

In this post, I described why your play is focused on commenting instead of solving the game. You did not respond.

I've also pointed out several mindset/mentality contradictions in your play, which you also failed to respond to.

Care to respond to any or all?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:32 GMT
#3616
Read contradictions are one thing, mindset contradictions are another.

I will read your filter again from this perspective, and also assuming that your "solving the game" looks different from what I would expect, but I'm having a lot of trouble understanding this playstyle. I'll probably have to check some more meta
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:32 GMT
#3617
On January 04 2016 07:31 Damdred wrote:
Though kush is coming off towny in this exchange tbh
Why?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:39 GMT
#3622
On December 27 2015 10:57 nooniansoong wrote:
Hi everybody. I'm a kush smurf.
This game I am going to try hard to work on read accuracy.

I just did a quick read through. Exo gave me mafia feels in his few posts, but that doesn't mean much.

I liked hf's first post. Then ness said he needed to write a lot in defense. Ness, I urge you to write as little as possible while still honestly addressing hf's concerns.

On December 28 2015 06:04 nooniansoong wrote:
TT was very try hard as mafia last game. I suppose his play could be scum feeling mafia fatigue. I think he is more likely low effort town.
Nooniansoong, I'm not sure how these posts fit with your process-of-elimination mindset described here. How can you get mafia feels from ExO_'s first few posts? And why do you feel that Tictock is more likely town than mafia, while you say that when you can't find a reason to townread people, you assume that they are mafia?

Am I misunderstanding something?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:43 GMT
#3626
Palmar, why did you decide that nooniansoong is town?

What exactly made you think that Onegu and Damdred are not good lynches today, I'm having trouble understanding what you're getting at.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 22:53 GMT
#3631
Palmar, given how Tictock didn't claim his role despite barely avoiding being lynched Day 1, why would you expect mafia to rolecop him?

I'd think that they'd barely prefer rolechecking Tictock to rolechecking themselves.

You don't think that Onegu can be mafia for the WIFOM play?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:03 GMT
#3637
Here is kushm4sta (aka nooniansoong)'s filter from his last game, Dark Tournament Mini Mafia. In this game, he was town. And no, I'm not cherrypicking, he was mislynched on Day 1 this game.

In this game, he presents several scumreads and clearly cares about the Day 1 lynch. He has a progression of several scumreads and is willing to consolidate his vote such that it actually matters. Furthermore, despite being busy, he reads filters and makes reads of all of the main wagons.

And in this game, he didn't care at all about the Day 1 lynch.

I'm waiting for nooniansoong's explanation, but I'm having a TON of difficulty seeing his play coming from town this game. His explanation of process-of-elimination solving the game doesn't seem to be anything like how he played last game.

Nooniansoong, please answer as soon as you can, I am trying to keep an open mind, but I need your answer to continue. If you are not going to answer, if you could at least tell me that you won't answer, that would be great so I can do my best to check my read on you without it. Otherwise, I'll have to go through tonight anyway.

I think I want to lynch nooniansoong or Palmar most, I'll work on it tonight.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:09 GMT
#3642
On January 04 2016 08:07 Damdred wrote:
But you are cherry picking to a degree trfel. You wave dark tournament around but then ignore his most recent game of,nutcracjer where he didn't Carr about the d1 lynch but turned it on d2.

I'm not sure it makes him town or scum though
Oh, I didn't realize that he played in that game. I'll take a look.

You expect town to not care about lynches? You expect town to not care about finding mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:12 GMT
#3646
On January 04 2016 08:07 Palmar wrote:
Trfel, I seem to recall most of the reason for your scumread being that I'm playing more seriously than in some two other games. You should probably ignore that. I play all sorts of town games. In general, doing bits (tunneling super hard, split personalities, elaborate schemes, fabulous speeches etc) takes time, of which I haven't had much (it's the holidays) this game.

I'm having trouble understanding your reads. I don't feel like you're actually pushing anything (except for the Artanis push, which was really awful for other reasons). It feels more like you're playing to survive rather than to solve the game.

Sure, I'll check again tonight though.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:15 GMT
#3649
Yes, sometimes town will not care about finding mafia.

However, look at nooniansoong's filter in this game. He's clearly putting in effort, or at least he thinks he is.

On Day 1, he still didn't actually care about the lynch, and even now it's difficult to get him to explain his scum reads, despite his decent activity.

That's the contrast. It's not that he just doesn't care at all, it's that he cares about the game but not about the lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:21 GMT
#3655
On January 04 2016 08:15 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 08:12 Trfel wrote:
On January 04 2016 08:07 Palmar wrote:
Trfel, I seem to recall most of the reason for your scumread being that I'm playing more seriously than in some two other games. You should probably ignore that. I play all sorts of town games. In general, doing bits (tunneling super hard, split personalities, elaborate schemes, fabulous speeches etc) takes time, of which I haven't had much (it's the holidays) this game.

I'm having trouble understanding your reads. I don't feel like you're actually pushing anything (except for the Artanis push, which was really awful for other reasons). It feels more like you're playing to survive rather than to solve the game.

Sure, I'll check again tonight though.

which read do you have trouble with?
Sorry, I need to leave Sauna again. I'm going back to college tomorrow, there's no way that a game of mafia is going to take me away from my family.

I can't remember stuff well, but off the top of my head....

Do you really think that it is a mechanically correct play for the cop to claim a green check to defend you? If not, why did you ask the cop to check you Night 1?
I'm having a hard time understanding how you could scumread Onegu and Damdred so heavily right after the Tictock flip, and take this long to come around, when basically everyone else wasn't sure about reads on them shortly after the flip.

Can you explain your Alakaslam read?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 03 2016 23:25 GMT
#3660
On January 04 2016 08:18 Damdred wrote:
Does that make someone scum though trfel?
It's extremely mafia motivated.

There are a lot of reasons why I am scumreading nooniansoong, I'm simplifying it. I'm trying the scumread form of :
I think that [player] is scum for these reasons. Here is an example of each.

Nooniansoong's apathy towards the Day 1 lynch is one example, the big-picture reason being that he doesn't care about solving the game, which is very mafia motivated.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 03:33 GMT
#3668
Damdred, I'm going to use a sicklucker argument, but here goes.

It's really hard to tell about NocturneMage for a variety of reasons. He's still busy trying to read through the game, and it's a fairly large game. It's also right after a major holiday, and he's playing in another game at the same time.

If you remember from the last game that NocturneMage replaced into, Dark Tournament I think? but, he wasn't very active for ~24 hours and then started doing more stuff while catching up with the thread.

Basically, I don't feel confident with lynching him now at all, it feels like basically an activity policy lynch, and I feel that he will be far easier to read next day. And I feel that there are several lynches with a very good chance of hitting mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 03:51 GMT
#3671
Yes, I expect NocturneMage to be much easier to read over time.

From nooniansoong's last game, as town:
On December 15 2015 21:48 kushm4sta wrote:
I see no reason not to vote gb. Dunno when flip is but I will try to do some stuff at lunch

On December 15 2015 21:48 kushm4sta wrote:
I see no reason not to vote gb. Dunno when flip is but I will try to do some stuff at lunch
(among other posts scumreading GlowingBear)
On December 16 2015 07:33 kushm4sta wrote:
sorry guys i had a lunch meeting.

I won't be able to catch up on reading tonight. Pretty dumb to lynch me due to a lurker meta though. Whether I am a lurker or not has nothign to do with alignment and everything to do with how busy I am.

Dark tournament I was also lynched d1 for low activity and I was also town. So keep that in mind.
Still very different from the current game. Specifically in that he had scumreads and the reason he wasn't around for the Day 1 lynch was due to availability instead of desire.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 04:52 GMT
#3673
On January 04 2016 13:08 ritoky wrote:
so you have no read on him, but expect to get one when his only really known mafia meta is to be passive and inactive?????? do you know he is town and gonna post or are you in a qt or something?
What?

This really isn't a complicated idea. Like, not at all.

More time means it's easier to read someone, regardless of what they are doing. However, in NocturneMage's case, more time is especially indicative because he's just replacing into the game.

Like, seriously, I shouldn't have to explain this. Do you want an elementary school explanation?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 05:59 GMT
#3675
On January 04 2016 13:52 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2016 13:08 ritoky wrote:
so you have no read on him, but expect to get one when his only really known mafia meta is to be passive and inactive?????? do you know he is town and gonna post or are you in a qt or something?
What?

This really isn't a complicated idea. Like, not at all.

More time means it's easier to read someone, regardless of what they are doing. However, in NocturneMage's case, more time is especially indicative because he's just replacing into the game.

Like, seriously, I shouldn't have to explain this. Do you want an elementary school explanation?
Sorry, this post was not called for.

There are several potential reasons why NocturneMage's play could be like this as town, as I stated a few posts ago. If NocturneMage's play continues to be the same as time passes, then these explanations are no longer valid, and he is likely mafia. If his play changes significantly, then he could very well be town.

I need to pack my stuff, then I'll try to look at mafia stuff, but I need to wake up at like 4 tomorrow. So I'm hoping to not stay up that late.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 06:26 GMT
#3683
On January 04 2016 15:22 Damdred wrote:
I'm not understanding exactly, the last game he replaced into he got to work almost straight away didn't need to be poked or prodded and jumped on things.

Here he's been in the game what will be 72 hours in a little over 12 hours. The only bursts of activity is when he is getting called out for little to no activity. And then once the pressure swings away from him he is back to being gone without giving any real thoughts.

I'm not sure why more time would make him easier to read hell. In his last game he got to a 20 page filter by d4? Something insane like that....
I mean, your first sentence is simply wrong.

It would be nice if you bothered to know what you're talking about before you try and contradict me.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 06:30 GMT
#3684
Look, ritoky, I'll try one more time, but if you still don't get it then there's nothing I can say to help you.

People don't always play to the best of their abilities, even when they are town. I feel that it's possible that NocturneMage is town and not playing to the best of his abilities. For one example of this, look at when he replaced into Dark Tournament Mini Mafia; for over 24 hours after he replaced in, his only posts had zero purpose and scumhunting. Afterwards, he was able to catch up with the thread and become more productive.

I feel that the following things could be limiting NocturneMage's play as town:
1. Being in a second game, the reason he didn't sign up for this game in the first place
2. Replacing into a very large game, has to read a ton to catch up / get a handle on things
3. The holiday makes things busier

Like, I'd sort of get it, except there are people to lynch who are actually scummy.

But I guess I'll try and go through N e s s's filter after I finish with nooniansoong, Palmar, and ObiWanShinobi.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 06:48 GMT
#3687
If that's really what you think, then you're not worth talking to at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 07:19 GMT
#3692
I was going to make a longer post but whatever.

Damdred, sorry.

Ritoky, depends on what he does. And I, like several other people, had strong townreads on N e s s. I finished looking through his filter again and I really don't see what's scummy about it. While he isn't being especially original, he does seem interested in pushing his reads, and he's extremely willing to stick his head out.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 07:39 GMT
#3693
I give up

I guess I'll sheep Artanis.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 12:48 GMT
#3714
Nooniansoong's post about solving the game through townreads and process-of-elimination kind of made sense when looking through his filter.

I think I mostly trust Damdred, but I'm not really sure I trust ritoky; it's a random tinfoil hat theory that I haven't had time to check yet.

It's way too darn early
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:22 GMT
#3899
Meh, I guess it'll have to do.

Do I need to stick around or can I worry about this game later?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:34 GMT
#3912
On January 05 2016 07:29 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2016 07:22 Trfel wrote:
Meh, I guess it'll have to do.

Do I need to stick around or can I worry about this game later?


Dude you've been reading me as town almost the entire game and now you're okay I'm gettinf lynched????
I mean, no, I'm not. But there's not much I can do. I need to stop defending people from players who are better than me, because it doesn't seem to accomplish anything, regardless of my read accuracy (which this game is pretty awful).

I would prefer to lynch ObiWanShinobi to Palmar at this point, since ObiWanShinobi has been doing nothing but following the sentiment and Palmar has made a bunch of posts which I haven't read. But I don't see that happening. I guess I'll move my vote anyway.

I guess nooniansoong is likely town, just because I can't effectively explain why I think that he is mafia any more.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:35 GMT
#3914
On January 05 2016 07:34 NocturneMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2016 07:33 Trfel wrote:
##unvote
##vote ObiWanShinobi


No. He's not getting lynched.
I know. I'm protesting.

And he's also mafia, so there's that. Post game credit, you know?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:45 GMT
#3928
On January 05 2016 07:43 ExO_ wrote:
trfel why vote OWS now? it's clear he's not going to be the one lynched today whats the point.

If you don't think its GB lynch palmar.
If I need to, I'll consider changing my vote.

Otherwise, I want postgame credit.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:51 GMT
#3949
I think Alakaslam is also probably going to flip town, but I feel that GlowingBear will be more able to prove his alignment to everyone.

GlowingBear, please be town

ObiWanShinobi is still mafia, though
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 22:52 GMT
#3953
On January 05 2016 07:50 Damdred wrote:
For the record trfel is now voting with his 100% scum read in kush.
Look, Damdred, I was out of my place and I apologized.

You're a better player than me, I messed up both in read accuracy and manners. I'm sorry. There's nothing more that I can do than say sorry.

I mean, if you want me to modkill myself, sure, I can do that. Otherwise, I'm simply trying to move on as best as I can.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
January 04 2016 23:02 GMT
#3991
I guess Artanis' chart was right after all.
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