EPTOUTLAW MINI MAFIA - Page 4
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 00:11 ExO_ wrote: woah woah woah back up. I said I had to reevaluate you, not that I changed my mind on you. Don't try to misrepresent what I said. He did it apparently with Vivax and Artanis day 1 (or 2, it was in their filters). This is a broken record. Do you see a pattern here? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 00:21 ExO_ wrote: However Rayn/Artanis/Vivax/Koshi all thought you were scum Palmar, and all are dead townies. And at the start of day 2, I said scum Palmar would come and talk his way out of a lynch. And I think that is certainly a possibility. The fact that GB was scum is points in your favor, but if Slam flips scum too then It stops even being a question in my mind that you're scum. I was wrong about GB so I at least owe you a relook. I disagree with this one part given the setup but I can see why you've arrived at that conclusion. There was adequate cause to scumread Slam from what I've read. I would give Palmar points if a GF/RB/rolecop flipped but not a vanilla scum. Also mind you, more of them scumread Palmar than did Slam if I recall correctly. The mafia motivation is to get the cred when you are under pressure like that (and I'm ignoring the fact that he's afk on the weekends as most town veterans in this game would treat that as NAI and not as part of their scumread on him). | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 05 2016 23:10 Palmar wrote: You're insane, people who look like mafia are always worth the check. yes, if the cop hits scum there's 25% chance that scum is godfather and we get a green check, but literally everyone knows to take a green check with a grain of salt until the godfather is flipped. A red check, on the other hand is 75% (2/3 millers are dead) chance of hitting mafia. I don't think I want slam lynched tomorrow, although there are some arguments to be made for it. The most important one is that GB didn't vote on his counterwagon. No. I will repeat what I said to Damdred yesterday. GB swapped votes to OWS right at same time (check voting thread) as shennanies to Alakaslam was occurring. GB's vote was effectively WIFOM. It should not be used as an argument against OWS, nor should it be used to vindicate anyone else. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 00:31 Palmar wrote: No but GB as mafia had at least a chance to save himself by just voting slam. Sure it might be wifom, but there might be a reason he didn't vote slam. That is horrible scumtastic reasoning to suggest that Slam should not be voted. If Slam was town, mafia GB would have voted him 100%. (Mind you that is NAI, but saying.) Mafia play to survive or in this case, preserve their team. The mafia motivation for GB to save Slam is that Slam serves a more important role on the scumteam, end of. (Obviously as he's flipped we know there is no town motivation, but even if GB was town, he would have still saved himself because he's most sure of his own alignment.) If anything, what you say, is actually further of an argument that Alakaslam should be lynched, and not the other way around. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 01:40 ExO_ wrote: I'm on page 11 of Palmar filter. He posts both of these while making some pretty big read posts. So in my mind its either one of 2 things happening: He's scum and really trying to talk his way out of a lynch. Like to an incredible extent. Or he's town and actually trying to help town. The amount of effort it would take to post all of his read posts leads me to believe it's just too much effort to put into something as scum. If he is scum here it's incredibly well done. That being said the other tidbit I get from reading Palmar's filter so far is Kush. Palmar is really pushing Kush at this point, and I tend to agree as I read it. If Kush flips scum, it basically confirms Palmar as town. Ummmm..........maybe I'll take a closer look when I can but....... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/500627-outlaw-mini-mafia?page=117#2327 On December 30 2015 01:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No, you have no focus. You haven't had focus all game. You're just spewing out what you think gets you townread. Your effort has not been in finding scum. I don't need to convince you that you're scum though. You've been warned. If the read posts don't advance the game, he's probably scum. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 01:52 Damdred wrote: Its monday/tuesday won't see him at all till tomorrow more than likely This, and as always is, is NAI for Shining. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 00:48 Palmar wrote: I guess NM is just a bit illiterate, I'll make sure not to use big words or complicated sentences around him. Trolling (which is generally mafia indicative) doesn't get you any points in my book. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 06 2016 00:49 Onegu wrote: Onegu confirmed town now. Will tell you who is scum at lylo and this time you fucks better listen to me. No. Don't remember where you were offhand end of last cycle but same argument applies to you as it does Palmar with respect to the votes. Vanilla mafia flip, bus city. And why don't you do it now instead of waiting until lylo? You've had the proper information to work with all game. (that said, I might be able to make some serious progress if I can actually sink a few hours reading filters and taking notes off my laptop) | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I am getting town feeling from Damdred particularly from the way he is reevaluating people, re-evaluating me. His argument and his basis for fakeclaiming Tictock makes sense from a town perspective I think. I think Noon is also town for wanting to push harder on Alakaslam, proven by the fact that GB flipped vanilla scum and did not vote Slam. Alakaslam is for certain mafia (based on my argument that flipped mafia GB sacrificed himself), and for now I will place my vote on him unless I can find someone better. (Mechanically with a cop flip, the godfather is now expendable as is the vig so bussing is still possible.) Palmar is scum though, and I really think he just managed to weasel his way out of the lynch. In spite of what everyone is saying...something just isn't feeling right. And Shining, I took a quick look through your filter, I am also getting a sense of town feeling, similar to your play in Dark Tournament. I am also getting a scum feeling from reading ritoky's reaction to Damdred's initial suggesting why my town game wasn't reflecting in this game. The way ritoky pounced on it looked opportunistic in comparison to how he tried to pounce on me in Fullmetal, the slightest reaction that was non alignment indicative (my reaction to Trfel) he made it so, and here my inactivity in this game cannot be compared to my normal scum meta because it's a larger game (my first one ever), and I'm playing in two games at once (a mistake I won't make again). That is not alignment indicative and his reaction was at best, much less townie than Damdred. The contrast is that Damdred actually presented a basis (casing HTS and getting to work) and ritoky didn't. That might look OMGUS and all but it gives me some caution with ritoky. Now I realise these may look a bit shallow but those are my observations from what I've seen in the little activity/interaction I've had in this game. I admit I'm still reading a load of filters. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Incidentally, I found something I think pretty serious in ritoky's filter (case incoming on my next break) and OWS I'm just having a rough time getting a good read on him. My gut call says he's town, but I'll hash out my thoughts on him. (will get to OO next since a bunch of people seem to be PoEing/split on those two) ExO_ I think he's a townread for me despite the back and forth with Shining, I think those two are both town just not seeing eye to eye with each other. I liked ExO's vote analysis as well. Will elaborate on all these in my next few posts. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Some posts look townie or at least reasoned out (like post 2125, 2300). Others look sort of boring, meh, others look shallow but reading more, it just might be his style. Page 5 of his filter, I am getting a "trying to solve the game" feeling from him, but at the same time there were two posts in 3174/3178 where he disputed why Palmar was scummy. On January 02 2016 08:55 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I lied, I'm actually still here. I just perused OO's, Shining's, and Vivax's filters and haven't had issues with any of them. Considering Palmar is so high up on everyone's lists and I townread him earlier, can someone explain to me why everyone thinks he's so scummy? I'll be checking this thread intermittently throughout tonight but I'll try to respond to whoever is still trying to do things. On January 02 2016 08:57 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I do remember people saying stuff like "he's not trying to solve the game" but that's mostly rhetoric and a ton of people haven't been doing anything recently. the problem I have with the second quote here is that the people who are saying stuff like "he's not trying to solve the game" are all dead, and the comments that people had made on early game with reference to Palmar were setting those standards (I believe) early game. "A ton of people haven't been doing anything recently..." well that's partially because you've just gotten by New Year's Eve, the game started I think the 26th? So at first, I get the feeling here he might be trying to compare different sets of standards, which looks scummy. There was another quote he made at ExO where he disputed the NKs implicating Palmar but ExO had only brought up two of the four players that implicated Palmar, so I'm not sure this is alignment indicative. But on page 6 he's going back and forth about Palmar and he's been conflicted. Post 3592 is a good reason to question Noon on the Palmar's observation on Rels because Palmar comes off as trolling. OWS's vote on GB I can see why people are arguing its a bus, but when looking at how OWS has grappled with Palmar in a few different ways for several pages of his filter, it's plausible he went for who he felt was the most likely scum. I think he's wrongly townreading Palmar, but taking into context a few times where he said he's mostly skimming the thread from his phone at work, it's possible a town player could miss certain things (and explains his style too). My gut call on him is town, not a solid read at all but this is what I'm thinking for now. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 08 2016 00:12 nooniansoong wrote: why do you assume town will let this game get to lylo? Not a fan of Onegu pushing this point at all. That's the third time I recall him doing this. Doesn't mean he's town this game, nor does pushing that point make him any more town. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 08 2016 00:26 Palmar wrote: ows is a green check, pay attention pls (1) GF hasn't flipped (2) Damdred and at least one other person wanted more reads from me (3) several debating OWS doesn't hurt to tell others where my head is pay attention pls | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 07 2016 06:21 ExO_ wrote: I think Onegu is scum. His fake claim bullshit on day 2 has let him slide by like Damdred. Only unlike Damdred he hasn't done anything since then. His filter is 4 pages long, and he has 1 post on the 4th page. He's not doing anything. On day 3 he switched off of Slam and went to GB (this is true of OO and SL as well). If I work with the assumption that Onegu is scum it leads me to the following scum team: Onegu Shining Slam Kush Day 3 Kush parks his vote on Slam and never moves it at all. Shining votes for GB, and Onegu moves from Slam to GB. GB never throws his vote on slam (inexplicably). This gets GB lynched, and protects slam for another day. I think slam is a scum with a role, and I think we should lynch him today. ##Vote Alakaslam On January 07 2016 07:05 Damdred wrote: That's interesting why do you spend so much time talking about how onegu must be scum but decide that slam has to be scum because of something that isn't true. When GB ended up being lynched I tried to shennanigan onto slam but the true counter wagon during the day was palmar. You saying slam wad the other wagon is wrong. And when slam had a large amount of votes before we moved to GB palmar was still the counter wagon. so yeah On January 07 2016 07:23 ExO_ wrote: ...I was one of the people moving to Slam during that time, don't you remember? I wanted to lynch Palmar but it never really got enough steam. And then when the movement to Slam started, Palmar almost switched (or at least implied he did) but ultimately decided to stay on GB> What is untrue about what I'm saying? I actually agree with ExO_ here. What he is saying makes complete sense. Onegu's filter could be NAI if he's a player who doesn't post much (don't recall him saying that much as town in the game that finished), but Onegu very well could be mafia for what he pulled on Tictock. I made a mention before that he could have tried to draw a cop counterclaim so I can sort of see how it'd make sense. In addition, Onegu's posts about being confirmed town and making calls in lylo just rubbed me the wrong way considering how GB flipped; it was the same argument I was using for Palmar. GB was expendable, and refused to vote for Alakaslam. I think Noon/Kush had other read-based reasons (Alakaslam wasn't caring about the game) to vote him in the first place and I'm pretty sure Shining is town tbh, but the play made sense to me when he could have drawn out the cop claim (cop was still alive at the time). Now my only issue with ExO is that he's using ALL these arguments to argue that all of these people are scum, but I think between this and his voting analysis on GB's agenda, I think this former part makes him more guilty of confirmation bias rather than making him mafia. Also part tone, like he comes off to me as someone who really believes what he's saying even if he might be off target. There's a stubbornness, IDGAF attitude that I see in him. I think ExO is town. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On January 08 2016 00:37 nooniansoong wrote: Your logic this: 5/6 of GB's scumreads turned out to be town. Therefore, the last scumread is also town. I'd say it makes it more likely for the last scumread to be scum, since scum usually throws in at least some busing especially as the game goes on. So what we have here is bad and possibly opportunistic reasoning. To paraphrase: Voting for alakaslam d1 and d3 is scummy because 1. I can say I pushed scum 2. I stay out of the spotlight. re 1: I can't say i push scum because my scum meta is to bus and that is well known. re 2: Wouldn't voting for TT be staying out of the spotlight? I'd say voting for alakaslam rather than going with the popular wagon puts me more in the spotlight. Additionally, I argued hard d3 to not lynch Palmar or GB. That's not out of the spotlight. I dunno. Call me nitpicky, but I can go either way on the first part. I get Noon's argument here, and I realise that 6th vote is my slot so I get if you think I'm biased here. At the same time, I think Palmar is also mafia, but I can see where that perspective is affected depending on your townread (I think?) on him. Personally I just think ExO is wrong, what exactly is striking you as opportunistic? He's using a lot of conditional words (like "if" and "probably"), just saying. Second part, Day 1 vote, I wasn't around, but the leading wagons (Rels/Tictock) were both town right? Isolated wagons are generally bad offhand but I think it's better though to recall the reasoning for his voting Slam Day 1, and whether that was organic or not or if it was abrupt and really how hard he pushed it compared to his reads on the wagons. Day 2 vote is NAI, the lynch on Tictock was autopilot. Day 3 if I'm reading his phrasing correctly I think the "staying out of the spotlight" refers to the Day 1 and 2 votes and not the Day 3 votes. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
I had a little extra time, so I thought I'd make this post a bit interesting. Decided I'd "borrow" a theme I've seen used by others for the hell of it  | ||
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