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On January 06 2016 07:18 Fidei86 wrote:
This wagon on GB gives me the super heebie-jeebies. There are too many people jumping onto it too easily and with too little explanation. I think we should be lynching mderg instead, for the following reasons:
His first read on GB makes no sense
At #237 he notes that people are quick to jump on GB, for reasons that he agrees with "his opening was fishy", but he doesn't like it because it "feels too easy". So the opening is scummy, but people pointing that out is fishy? Huh?
His second read on GB is based on a falsity
Day 2 he votes GB initially (#741) for absolutely shit reasons - GB quoted Irish's reads accurately, and tried to do some NK WIFOM. Mderg then said that GB had NOT given Irish's reads correctly (which GB had) and voted for him. When called out on it, he tried to say that GB had cherry picked votes, which he HADN'T. This is just a read based on a factual innaccuracy, but instead of admitting the mistake, he doubles down.
He parrots other people's reasons for voting
His Scott vote at #455 was for reasons that had already been set out by others (set out helpfully by Irish at #441). On top of that, he also says that he's going to "park his vote" there, which is pretty scummy as it indicates a lack of conviction and looks to be leaving himself room to change later. He doesn't actually change his vote, despite not really saying anything about scott through the rest of the day.
When he finally explained his GB read after the #741 issue, he basically just summarised what people had said previously about GB. Then at #815 he calls out Kmatt's case, but says that he agrees with some of it and that GB is scum anyway.
His posts are responsive and reactive.
Most of his posts throughout his filter are responses to other posts. It's a classic scum technique of appearing active, while actually not contributing anything. See, for example, #599, #587, although really most of his filter fits the pattern.
His only long posts have come recently, and they seem to have mostly been an explanation of his own play in past games ... big help.
LYNCH mderg. Please.
##vote: mderg
Haven't actually read this, yet. But what I bolded is just factually wrong.
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On January 06 2016 01:51 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 01:06 NocturneMage wrote:
KMatt is newb town, not lynching him today.
If you are looking at mderg, then take a look at how he responded to me, his key argument against Noon is that Noon is framing his arguments to be exclusively mafia. My only concern based on mderg's response to me is that when he says he's sure he's on mafia, he will push them pretty hard, but I've not seen that so far. This is by his own standards.
Noon is making the same argument as you on mderg though, and the way this game has been going there's a decent shot one of them is mafia, and I think particularly as Noon's claimed scum meta is similar to mderg's scum meta here, I will probably need to resolve those two using the database as well as how this cycle goes. EBWOP - poorly worded phrasing And I think particularly with Noon's claim on mderg's scum meta being reflected in this game.
Just saying, if you're checking my scum meta, you should also check my town meta.
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On January 06 2016 07:18 Fidei86 wrote:
This wagon on GB gives me the super heebie-jeebies. There are too many people jumping onto it too easily and with too little explanation. I think we should be lynching mderg instead, for the following reasons:
His first read on GB makes no sense
At #237 he notes that people are quick to jump on GB, for reasons that he agrees with "his opening was fishy", but he doesn't like it because it "feels too easy". So the opening is scummy, but people pointing that out is fishy? Huh?
His second read on GB is based on a falsity
Day 2 he votes GB initially (#741) for absolutely shit reasons - GB quoted Irish's reads accurately, and tried to do some NK WIFOM. Mderg then said that GB had NOT given Irish's reads correctly (which GB had) and voted for him. When called out on it, he tried to say that GB had cherry picked votes, which he HADN'T. This is just a read based on a factual innaccuracy, but instead of admitting the mistake, he doubles down.
He parrots other people's reasons for voting
His Scott vote at #455 was for reasons that had already been set out by others (set out helpfully by Irish at #441). On top of that, he also says that he's going to "park his vote" there, which is pretty scummy as it indicates a lack of conviction and looks to be leaving himself room to change later. He doesn't actually change his vote, despite not really saying anything about scott through the rest of the day.
When he finally explained his GB read after the #741 issue, he basically just summarised what people had said previously about GB. Then at #815 he calls out Kmatt's case, but says that he agrees with some of it and that GB is scum anyway.
His posts are responsive and reactive.
Most of his posts throughout his filter are responses to other posts. It's a classic scum technique of appearing active, while actually not contributing anything. See, for example, #599, #587, although really most of his filter fits the pattern.
His only long posts have come recently, and they seem to have mostly been an explanation of his own play in past games ... big help.
LYNCH mderg. Please.
##vote: mderg
Ok, done reading this.
1) what I meant was if everyone just piled on gb for that without any counterwagon, it would be unlikely that he's scum.
2) factually wrong
3) the vote parking should be pretty obvious in context. I said that I wasn't sure to be back before deadline.
If you think my reasons for scumreading GB are simply repeating what others have said, you're free to think that but it doesn't change the reality. Of course I took into consideration what others have said but I also gave my own reasons and I've been talking about not liking GB before.
4) I've actually heard something similar quite a few times. I don't hide that a lot of my posts are reactive but that's just how it is.
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On January 06 2016 07:40 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB This is your post. So it's not so much that you said that the reads were wrong, but that they were misleading. I just don't see how you could think that. GB posted all of Irish's scum reads, which was the basis of GB's post.
I feel like you're arguing about semantics. Of course he wrote down Irish's reads but he simply listed them down and picked the one that was more suitable for him.
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On January 06 2016 07:50 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2016 07:49 mderg wrote:On January 06 2016 07:40 Fidei86 wrote:On January 03 2016 00:55 mderg wrote:On January 03 2016 00:38 GlowingBear wrote:
There's a reason Irish is dead and I'm not. The reason is that he was probably right at least for one of his scum reads.
His scum reads were kush/Giygas/Scott. Scott is dead, I think kush is more likely to be town. So I'm voting Giygas because I simply have no reason to town read him.
That gigantic post from Kmatt probably makes him town. If I had a wrong scum read, it is him. I keep my scumread on mderg and Onegu, tho.
To be fair, I'm pretty confident we hit a Mafia on mderg. But considering the night kill we should probably kill Giygas first. I don't like this post at all. You're simply using his reads to vote without giving it any real thought. You're also ignoring pretty much all of his other reads this game. That's not town play. ##vote GB This is your post. So it's not so much that you said that the reads were wrong, but that they were misleading. I just don't see how you could think that. GB posted all of Irish's scum reads, which was the basis of GB's post. I feel like you're arguing about semantics. Of course he wrote down Irish's reads but he simply listed them down and picked the one that was more suitable for him. That was the point of his post - discussing Irish's scum reads..
I don't think so. If he had wanted to discuss those reads, he should and would have done so in a completely different manner.
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On January 06 2016 08:05 Fidei86 wrote:
He literally said the reason he was not dead was because Irish was right in one of his scum reads. Then he gave Irish's scum reads.
Exactly that plus he simply decided it had to be giygas and voted him.
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Gonna sleep now. Will be able to commit more time to this tomorrow.
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I guess people like me now or at least don't scumread me anymore. I obviously still like the GB lynch, still gonna take a look at him again.
Looks like I was wrong on kush and he is actually town. His defence of me makes absolutely no sense as scum in this situation. His activity and questioning look very towny this day.
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My thoughts on GB after going through his filter again, pretty much in chronological order:
I didn't like the quick townread on Irish for a very typical first post. His reasoning would work on like 90% of opening posts.
He continued with prodding here and there and asking some questions which I liked. There was absolutely no follow up, though.
I really don't like #300. Having the same read doesn't mean you can't find it strange how someone else came to the read. That thought process is something I even consider towny.
When he voted kmatt to me it felt like he delayed his explanation to actually find reasons to scumread him. It's definitely possible that he was speaking the truth here, though.
Then he made a small "case" on kmatt. It's mainly about lack of confidence in the reads. Lack of confidence in ones reads is not something I'd build a case on this early in the game.
After that he scumreads Onegu and me. Onegu based on meta. I can't say too much about it but obviously Onegu flipped town. He scumreads me mainly for having very few original thoughts. I disagree on that but whatever.
When the scott wagon got rolling he defended him by trying to lynch kmatt. I'm not really sure, did he want to lynch kmatt or did he want to defend scott? Looking through it it was actually much more attacking kmatt than I remembered. Could come from town could come from scum.
He then townreads kmatt for the huge case but doesn't engage it at all because he doesn't care about cases made on him and skipped it by default. A bit later, though, he almost immediately responds to NM's (admittedly much smaller) case on him. That just doesn't add up, scummy.
He then proceeds to scumread Giygas based on Irish's reads. That's scummy and we have gone through that enough times now.
After he got under pressure he obviously defended himself a lot and gives explanations on his posts and reads which is simply NAI.
IMO the only notable thing after that is him complaining about Shape being modconfirmed town. It doesn't really make sense and I have a wild and possibly stupid theory about that. This is not the time for that, though.
So yeah, I can understand GB's play at some points and not everything put up against him is exclusively scummy. But there are some things I simply don't see a townie come up with and there's little to nothing that says "I'm town". This means he should be the lynch today (which kind of seems to be decided on based on the activity in the last few hours).
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Wait, I've just realized. But aren't we in MYLO already? There should be 5 town and 3 scum left.
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I'm slightly concerned about the lack of people here this close to deadline.
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GB not realizing it's MYLO definitely makes one doubt. Of course he could be saying that on purpose but still...
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On January 07 2016 06:49 NocturneMage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 06:46 mderg wrote:
GB not realizing it's MYLO definitely makes one doubt. Of course he could be saying that on purpose but still... Hmmm, does it make sense for scum to wifom something like this? IDK.
I don't know when he first said it. At this point in time it's not unthinkable.
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On January 07 2016 06:54 GiygaS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2016 00:46 GlowingBear wrote:
Well, lynch me today
When I flip town lynch my scum reads
They are Giygas/mderg/?
Also remember what I said on NM before
I'm getting ready to work and I'll be AFK during the entire day.
I hope you guys do the right thing. If you don't, do NOT ignore my reads. 6 hours ago I think.
He was clearly the leading wagon at that point, so it's possible
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Certainly didn't expect that
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At least reading the obs QT was a fun experience 
Also don't get why people were so mad... I like scum winning
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EPT
