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Newbie Student Mafia XVIII - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 01:57 GMT
#393
EBWOP Well maybe the question itself could make sense since my vote is on Scott, fair play, but the lack of engagement with a scumread is what I am having trouble with.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:04 GMT
#394
At least Cow's layout is more clear and has more specific points that can be crosschecked.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:15 GMT
#397
From context in 362 I am going to make the assumption that KMatt (unlike Cow/Irishbound) is pretty inexperienced at forum mafia.

On December 30 2015 09:43 Kmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 09:40 Shapelog wrote:
On December 29 2015 10:11 Kmatt wrote:
On December 29 2015 10:00 NocturneMage wrote:
KMatt from post 197 you are suggesting that probability is a reason that GB is more likely town, yet the reality here is 3/11 chance (I know I'm town and you would on yourself from the perspective that you are town) there is mafia and in this case, that you might suggest there is potential mafia behaviour (buddying in this case) for GB.

From the perspective of an experienced player, and/or based on his repetition you suggested, do you see that possibly coming from town or mafia? Do you see any other interactions from GB that would point you towards either direction.

Furthermore, do you have any other observations on the other players that have made reads/interactions in thread?


I didn't really mean anything by saying that he was "probably town", just purely the 3/11 (27%) vs 8/11 (73%) chance factor. I actually didn't think about the buddying factor though, since none of the people he was "buddying" came off as suspicious to me. I wouldn't go as far as to say that GB is showing mafia behavior, just that he stood out to me.

If I had to guess right now, his posts would make more sense for a mafia to do. However, that seems like it would be an obvious (mafia) rookie mistake (considering a scrub "caught" him on it), which I wouldn't expect of him. I'm still neutral on it for now.

Kind of the same with Irish. He's certainly putting more ideas out there than a lot of other posters, but nothing that would really swing me either way.


So u have list the chances of him being town, then null him, then put him up for vote?

What has changed? I mean all that has happen is that he scum read u. did you reread and a earlier post seems scummy now or what?

I can understand ur GiygaS Khan vote thou.


I don't think much has changed. To be honest, I did have a scumlean on GB, but I don't want to assert that since I wasn't confident enough in my own "evidence". Looking back over it I think I'm comfortable dropping my scumlean on GB. With that said:

##vote GiygaS


Can you also walk me through what in your head made you drop that scumlean on GB? That's about the only thing not clear in the filter. I can see the evidence threshold being reasonable of an argument for a newbie who doesn't know what he's doing to make. I can see this quote:

On December 30 2015 09:49 Kmatt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 09:36 GlowingBear wrote:
On December 30 2015 09:32 Shapelog wrote:
On December 30 2015 09:22 GlowingBear wrote:
I think Kmatt's filter has been wishy washy, that's why I voted him. I could quoting and explaining my rwas but I'm actually too lazy right now to put effort

I'm also playing another game which from times to times keeps me from giving my full attention to this one


So basically a non commitment issue. Yeah that's true.
At least ik what ur prob. is now.

Can u still explain y if i had a read on him matter?


I usually delay explanation and post just votes and questions just to have people talking. If I answered you right at that moment I would destroy this premise. So I was just trying to have people talking about it for a longer time.


While that seems like an effective tactic, I really can't like using it as town since that fits "make posts that stir up trouble without actually contributing to the thread" to a T. Not five minutes after I toss my scumread...

If you really do have an argument against me, let's get it out into the open. I don't think there's anything to lose by hiding information from all three of us in here right now.


Being a reasonable amount of scepticism towards someone for someone who is inexperienced with forum mafia. This becomes more certain when you take that against GB's lack of (direct) followup per his filter.

Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:17 GMT
#398
On December 30 2015 11:04 NocturneMage wrote:
At least Cow's layout is more clear and has more specific points that can be crosschecked.


Also forgot to add to this, starting another wagon when he could have put his vote on scott as a scumread is generally a town tell.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:24 GMT
#401
Not if there's a basis? I don't think there's anything wrong with an early vote and pressing for answers.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:33 GMT
#405
KMatt, can you comment on the following:

(1) Irishbound's case/explanation on the Noon/Scott association
(2) Fidei and his opening reads
(3) Noon's posturing (for lack of better words) on GB
(4) Scott and how he looks from your perspective
(5) any other issues - EXCEPT Onegu who I feel is bordering the closest to a policy lynch - that you think are deserving of the thread attention?
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:37 GMT
#407
GlowingBear, what do you make of the responses KMatt has given since your initial assertion?
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:39 GMT
#409
On December 30 2015 11:35 GlowingBear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 11:24 NocturneMage wrote:
Not if there's a basis? I don't think there's anything wrong with an early vote and pressing for answers.


Your basis is basically inactivity and low involvement in the thread, and he is like this as town tooX so you don't actually have a basis


Actually, no it wasn't.

Look at my post again. I'm suggesting the problems in the POST THAT HE HAS lies in his wording and context. I am already aware he CAN be a low activity poster, I'm arguing that what he DOES have is scum indicative given the context in the thread.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:41 GMT
#411
This is what I was saying earlier with something that looks scum indicative - >>>>> early pressure vote for further clarification and answers.

There is nothing wrong with that basis.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:41 GMT
#412
On December 30 2015 11:40 Shapelog wrote:
Hasn't people said that scott played a versus amounts of play styles? (active, semi active, afk) all as town?
I mean if his play style is that changing then i be more incline to think the afk is NAI then AI. idk i like to see him post more as with GiygaS Khan.


Again, I can't speak for others but Scott being afk is NOT why I'm scumreading him.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 02:50 GMT
#415
On December 30 2015 11:44 Shapelog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 10:55 NocturneMage wrote:
And I say that because GlowingBear's response after that last response was to query me on how many games I've played with Scott. Despite KMatt actually being in thread.

It doesn't make any sense.


GB might of made a post about this yet, but GB has been very defective this game. Apperainty it is to generate content and have people talk about it. But yet it is funny to me that afterwards, when he posts, it generates more content then the tatic did.
And a quick skim up the thread shows that he is deflecting a Kmatt read.

I really starting to have probs. with this again. Hes deflecting to much IMO.


Well like I said before his initial explanation for a reaction test made sense the lack of followup or conclusion on KMatt's responses does not. Or lack of engagement to resolve the scumread. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 03:00 GMT
#419
On December 30 2015 11:18 Irishbound wrote:
I'll summarise the issues I have with Noon:

a) In the pregame he stated that he was looking forward to playing with Onegu here, it's not impossible that it was him being sarcastic but it does make his attempt to policy lynch Onegu based on nearly nothing inside this thread look very scum motivated. b) I find the timing of his push on Onegu (When there was attention on Scott) as well as his shotty reasoning behind town reading Scott in this post to mean that he makes a lot of sense as scum with Scott. c) Strongly dislike the fact that he's not attempted to scumhunt at all throughout this day phase and is attempting to state he won't do so until D2, that makes sense coming from scum thinking he's able to coast a day phase without any risk himself.

Alright I'll continue catching up an then I'll post my reads line.


I can see where you are coming from especially since Scott's reasoning to townread KMatt on taht explanation was poor, plus saying what he said there "I could jump on this" it doesn't line up with ending up at a null read, not to mention I had already posted other material that Scott could have looked at. but to be fair that is a separate issue that he may have neglected to look at as either alignment.

Policy lynching is something I have seen coming out of both alignments to be fair, I know it was the case in Dark Tournament, townies wanting to lynch other townies but I think those townies had been playing all game.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 03:04 GMT
#420
On December 30 2015 12:00 NocturneMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 11:18 Irishbound wrote:
I'll summarise the issues I have with Noon:

a) In the pregame he stated that he was looking forward to playing with Onegu here, it's not impossible that it was him being sarcastic but it does make his attempt to policy lynch Onegu based on nearly nothing inside this thread look very scum motivated. b) I find the timing of his push on Onegu (When there was attention on Scott) as well as his shotty reasoning behind town reading Scott in this post to mean that he makes a lot of sense as scum with Scott. c) Strongly dislike the fact that he's not attempted to scumhunt at all throughout this day phase and is attempting to state he won't do so until D2, that makes sense coming from scum thinking he's able to coast a day phase without any risk himself.

Alright I'll continue catching up an then I'll post my reads line.


I can see where you are coming from especially since Scott's reasoning to townread KMatt on taht explanation was poor, plus saying what he said there "I could jump on this" it doesn't line up with ending up at a null read, not to mention I had already posted other material that Scott could have looked at. but to be fair that is a separate issue that he may have neglected to look at as either alignment.

Policy lynching is something I have seen coming out of both alignments to be fair, I know it was the case in Dark Tournament, townies wanting to lynch other townies but I think those townies had been playing all game.


actually wait - look further into this and you see Noon raising the KMatt white knighting issue and KMatt had responded to that. There was no followup there and his looking to GB to find a reason to scumread KMatt (probably this in conjunction with the white knighting argument is my guess from his filter). There's two futher points against Noon - the lack of followup to KMatt's response on the white knighting and using some really bad association (namely if GB is town then KMatt must be scum) to try and get where he needs to be (post 364). The scum motivation looks like he's reaching for that scumread unless he was not satisfied with the response but there is no such indication in his filter AND subsequent posting.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 03:18 GMT
#428
On December 30 2015 11:55 Irishbound wrote:
@NM - I've just finished going through Fideis ISO and have literally no read on him at all, you've got some meta experience with him from what his posts suggest, what's your read on him at the moment (With some reasoning please)?


So basically what I know of Fidei's meta is that as town he tries to solve the game, will whine about spam and is generally a low volume poster since he's a laywer who works ridiculous hours. There are two reads that I have not been able to follow easily (I'm seeing a double standard between Shapelog and GigyaS reads but I do want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding those reads). I don't agree entirely with his initial scott read, partially because I'm sceptical of meta and he used a game (NSM 14 where scott was high activity) where he took a town trait and compared it to here. But looking into the substance - or lack of substance in scott - moving to null would make sense.

There is not enough solving of the game from him and I cannot contest what he's saying on Onegu as a policy lynch, but he has not returned.

I tentatively have a null to scumlean on him largely because I couldn't follow the GigyaS/Shapelog reads but I was going to engage him when he returned to the thread and would hopefully comment on the key issues that have arisen since.


Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 03:23 GMT
#430
On December 30 2015 12:18 NocturneMage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2015 11:55 Irishbound wrote:
@NM - I've just finished going through Fideis ISO and have literally no read on him at all, you've got some meta experience with him from what his posts suggest, what's your read on him at the moment (With some reasoning please)?


So basically what I know of Fidei's meta is that as town he tries to solve the game, will whine about spam and is generally a low volume poster since he's a laywer who works ridiculous hours. There are two reads that I have not been able to follow easily (I'm seeing a double standard between Shapelog and GigyaS reads but I do want to make sure I'm not misunderstanding those reads). I don't agree entirely with his initial scott read, partially because I'm sceptical of meta and he used a game (NSM 14 where scott was high activity) where he took a town trait and compared it to here. But looking into the substance - or lack of substance in scott - moving to null would make sense.

There is not enough solving of the game from him and I cannot contest what he's saying on Onegu as a policy lynch, but he has not returned.

I tentatively have a null to scumlean on him largely because I couldn't follow the GigyaS/Shapelog reads but I was going to engage him when he returned to the thread and would hopefully comment on the key issues that have arisen since.


ebwop - post 386 is where I'm trying to flesh those reads out with Fidei.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 03:33 GMT
#433
I need to head to bed, but with where my head is, I think the lynch list needs to be somewhere in this:

Noon/GB/Scott

Further fleshing out: Scott/Fidei/GigyaS
Last resort/policy lynch: Onegu

For GigyaS there was one post that I felt was unlikely to come from scum, but considering where he's not been in thread for >24h now, getting a mindset read with all that has happened is I think pretty important with a few of the concerns brought up.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 19:49 GMT
#555
ET north of 45 minutes until I can get to a computer, catch up and reassess.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 21:09 GMT
#589
Have my laptop, here we go. Reading simultaneously from page 22.

Scott, I have questions for you. First your scumread on GigyaS.

(1) His third post admitting his joke was forced and admitting he didn't know what to say. (post 214/218) Why does that come from scum?
(2) He has posted and made reads since. You are saying his filter is (still presumably) worse than yours (worse as in less content? how?)

How is what he's done from your perspective scummy?

Admittedly I agree with mderg etc, moving Noon up at the time you did is a weak/poor defence, but I need to see what Noon's posted since. I'm not experienced enough (5th game on TL, 4 of which were newbies, and no other forum experience for those who don't know me) to know what a pocket is or what categorically qualifies as a pocket.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 21:12 GMT
#590
I'm skimming through the scumslip argument on Fidei since enough of you are making a big deal on that. That is debatable 50/50 because given his apparent experience with Onegu you can see the context where that's coming from. If Fidei is mafia tbh, it's not (necessarily) for the scumslip, going to look closely at his list post and a few other things.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
December 30 2015 21:15 GMT
#591
Holy, I almost forgot TheCow was even in the game. Mind you I've been afk a bit myself. Last I recall he seemed towny for the way he tried to re-perspective KMatt. I thought his responses were satisfactory when we were all querying him last night.

Scott looking at your latest list post, why was the case poor? Is it because you are townreading KMatt or because you thought TheCow was legitimately making the case based on scummy and/or questionable points?
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
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