EPTNewbie Student Mafia XVIII - Page 2
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 10:26 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain this post when you can? You are saying that you agreed with the read on GigyaS, and thus you scumread him (????) but then you are making a like to like comparison to Shapelog who you are townreading? Can you explain if this affects your townread on Shapelog or whether it should because I don't otherwise understand what you are getting at here? At the time, I thought that both Shape and Gigya were guilty of a serious lack of content. The difference, in my mind, was that Shape appeared to be loitering in the thread looking for activity, whereas Gigya ninja'ed in and out. However, on the premise that mderg adopted (ie just a lack of substance), there wasn't too much between Shape and Gigya. I actually really liked mderg's response to my prodding - he sort of admitted that his post wasn't as full as it could have been. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Town Irishbound - I liked that from the outset he considered a wide range of players (see #408). Although I am null-y on Scott, it is hard to fault Irish's reasoning. Moreover, the fact that he has been on Scott for his posts, rather than some of the other low activity players (eg Onegu, Gigya) suggests that he's scum-hunting rather than looking for an easy out. Finally, I thought that his read on me was honest and the fact that he asked Alex for guidance (at #416) felt like a genuine cry for help. Shapelog - I really, really don't like Shape's approach to posting. Spam posting like he does is a pretty effective mafia tactic to confuse the thread and dissuade people from reading their filter. HOWEVER, I note that he had more than a page of filter in pre-game. Moreover, his posting has struck me more as someone who wants to play the game and is impatient with everyone else (see eg #232). That, to me, is something that a relatively new player would find difficult to replicate as mafia. I also liked him criticising GB for giving him a town read at #302 - as mafia it's much easier just to take the read and pocket it rather than challenge it. Finally, his list post at #448 covered all the bases for a town list post for me. The Cow - I am a sucker for people who post infrequently but give detailed reads and thoughts. His read on me seemed very genuine and is actually something I agree with, in that I struggle to condense my thoughts down as far as I would like, and I tend to focus on ephemera (tone, overall posting strategy) rather than digging down into the weeds of detail. I like that he comes in with strong reads on Scott and Kmatt, then follows them up with helpful questions. I think most people (myself included) have been giving Irish a free-pass so far, so it's very useful to have someone sense-checking that as well. Null Mderg - I like his pressuring on Noon/Kush as well regarding D1. Someone said in the thread earlier that they lynch scum 60% of games D1. I don't think it's that high for me, but mderg is right that a successful d1 lynch for town reaaaaally fucks scum. He has a couple of short posts that give interesting insight (eg #376), but generally he seems pretty focussed on pushing his kush / GB association without looking wider than that. Alex/NM - Alex pointed out in an earlier post that my read on Scott was based on playing with him only as town. Fair enough. My reads on Alex are coloured by the same thing - we've been town together twice. He is doing his usual prodding / poking and asking lots of questions. One concern I have is that I see the progression for his Scott read, and his GB read seems to be foreshadowed at #391, but I'm not sure he really has given any particular read on Kush/Noon to date? I agree with the read, but I'm not sure how he got there. GB - I have played with GB a fair few times before, but he plays differently every time and I usually rely on others to give a good read on him. Here, he has really given out town reads with very little supporting evidence (he 'liked' Alex's opening at (#195), when that was a JOKE OPENING!), and then placed a vote on Kmatt without explanation (#333). As an experienced player, this sort of high-read / low-analysis approach would be easily explained as either lazy/distracted town or mafia. Someone said that GB is in another game at the moment, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. There are definitely better lynches today. Kmatt - The big red flag for me here is what others have already pointed out - he seems very reluctant to give reads. That is understandable for a new player in his first game (#383). He does make an interesting point on GB that I kinda agree with (#197 - GB trying to buddy up to the thread). I think there are a lot of better lynches than Kmatt, but he's definitely someone to look back at if he doesn't start firming things up through D2. Scott - This is ugh. I think I'm actually better qualified than most people to read Scott, given that we've played three games together and I have given him a lot of attention in each. Yes, he and I have been town in each. HOWEVER, as I said before he has a number of different playstyles that seem to accord to how busy he is. And this is probably a mean thing to say, but I don't think he switches it up to keep his meta clean and I'm not sure he could. All that said, his content is totally garbage. He has had garbage content before as town. His read on Noon ("why would he TR me going against thread sentiment") is utterly idiotic, mostly because at that point there wasn't much thread sentiment against Scott AND because Noon's read was obviously weak. I don't want to jump straight onto Scott today because I think there are better lynches, and because (unlike others) he is very capable of coming back into the thread and being useful. Scum Gigya - He has a filter almost totally devoid of reads. His one TR is Irish (#214) but at the same time in his post at #192 he actually says that as Irish is experienced, the post could have been faked. ???. He also suspects GB for his "matter of fact town read", even though he agrees with it? The only thing keeping this from moving into policy is that he has a couple of posts where he talks about non-game stuff (#225, #228). If you have time to do that, you have time to play as well. This is how newbie mafia play, imo. Noon/Kush - This whole filter makes me want to facepalm. He TRs Scott for saying he could "possibly jump" on someone else's read. WTF? I just don't understand this read at all - mafia are the ones who are going to hedge and give weak reads, not town. He then goes into a day-long "woe is me, D1 is so hard" stupor, which is (a) totally destructive to town, and (b) effective at hiding his thoughts on the game. Having said that, he then seems to basically mindlessly sheep GB onto his read onto Kmatt. I also don't follow his point about NM and KMatt whiteknighting, since a bunch of other people also came into the thread to say that timestamp analysis wasn't helpful. He then also prods a bunch of people into giving reads, despite the fact that he himself has given almost no content. Policy Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent. I'm going to vote Gigya for now, but I'd consolidate onto Onegu or Kush if necessary later. ##Vote -- Gigya | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 23:30 Kmatt wrote: Pretty much the same sentiment as above for me. I leave for work in 30 mins and don't get out until 5pm Burger-time (vote o'clock). However I am going to assert that GB is the more dangerous target. Sure, Scott was acting "scummy" by not really participating, but he hasn't really derailed the thread or caused trouble (yet). GB on the other hand is an active poster who has been calling quite a few scumreads (myself included) with virtually no justification, as well as some very empty townreads. The fishy interactions with Noon are enough to seal the deal for me. More importantly, if we were to lynch Scott, we would learn almost nothing. Even if he came up scum, his posts have been so hollow that we wouldn't have a solid lead to go from there. Unless GB can clean up his act in time, there's a lot more to be gained out of him. ##unvote GiygaS ##vote GlowingBear ... Okay, I'll bite. My view is that lynching people for 'information' on D1 is basically the worst thing we can do. Without any flips -- and particularly without any scum flips -- associative reads are pretty much worthless. We should either lynch scum, or Onegu as a plynch. But since you're here I'll ask - what about the GB/kush interaction don't you like? I think it's extremely fishy that Kush says "I don't know how to play D1 I have no reads woe is me" and then immediately jumps onto GB's vote on you, but I don't really see how that reflects badly on GB? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 30 2015 07:39 GlowingBear wrote: Ok fully caught up I'm voting Kmatt because reasons ##Vote: Kmatt @GB as far as I can see, you never posted this into the voting thread. Just in case you'd forgotten. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
If you actually want to help then give your thoughts on Scott/Noon/Gigya, or anything else really. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
This thread re-entry so close to EOD is just so super suspect to me. He comes back in as one of the four leading wagons, and without anything further says "oh I'm going to choose between one of the other leading wagons once I've read their stuff". And the two people he's choosing between are both voting for him. ??? I really don't want to lynch into Scott/Kmatt right now. There are a bunch of better options (Kush / Gigya / Onegu). I think Gigya is the most likely to flip scum. The fact that Scott is on him as well just makes me even less excited about lynching him. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 31 2015 04:34 GiygaS wrote: Ok, I've read the thread. Going to go over fdei's filter again and then decide between him and scott. This thread re-entry so close to EOD is just so super suspect to me. He comes back in as one of the four leading wagons, and without anything further says "oh I'm going to choose between one of the other leading wagons once I've read their stuff". And the two people he's choosing between are both voting for him. ??? I really don't want to lynch into Scott/Kmatt right now. There are a bunch of better options (Kush / Gigya / Onegu). I think Gigya is the most likely to flip scum. The fact that Scott is on him as well just makes me even less excited about lynching him. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
ugh | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On December 31 2015 03:25 nooniansoong wrote: lemme summarize reasoning for voting fidei real quick. Several posts that are long and have nothign to do with scumhunting. Talking about past games, talking about the virtues of policy lynches, etc. In his big reads post, his scumreads are summaries of me and gigas' play put into a scummy light. He latches on to some of my trolly posts and doesn't stop to think "why would scum make such overtly scummy posts"? None of the posts I pointed out were trolling. I can see lots of scum motivation for saying how hard the day is and how bad you are at it. That's a classic way of avoiding actually making any f***ing reads. That part of the case is garbage. As to talking about previous games and policy lynches ... I literally always do that. And it's actually been super relevant here (how can you scum read me for doing it, but not Scott when Scott's case on Onegu is literally 100% meta). I need to consolidate onto Kmatt or Scott. Leaning Scott, just because his thread re-entry is so opportunistic. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
Where did your GB scum-read come from? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On January 01 2016 14:18 NocturneMage wrote: The second question regarding Onegu - since I've never played with him before is that is the whole finding scum thing based on scumreads on you - is this something he does as town, mafia or both alignments? I've never seen mafia Onegu. Whenever I've played with him as town, he's generally contributed nothing until D3 or D4. By that point, he generally gets pushed by scum. This helps him solve the game, but by that stage his thread pull is usually so shot that townies are happy to move onto him. In this game he has actually posted more than he usually does. I just want to talk a little bit about this 'scum-slip' before I re-read some other filters. This is the quote again: Policy Onegu - Please all think of a world where we get to LYLO or LYLO-1 and Onegu still hasn't said anything, still hasn't been modkilled and still hasn't been lynched. He does this EVERY GAME HE PLAYS. And it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for town to win if it gets that far, because he is a total coin-flip and the easiest ML in the world. His content is totally absent. I was discussing a policy lynch, wherein you essentially have to disregard your target's alignment and lynch them. If they are scum, great! If they are town, you lynched them because they are so disruptive and/or unhelpful that town is better off anyway. Obviously this is a tool you want to use very judiciously, because mislynches are bad. But my experience of AFK Onegu is that it's better to get it out of the way sooner (and hope he's scum). This wasn't a lynch suggestion based reads. This was a POLICY lynch. I could have spelt it out a bit more fully, where it would have said "[he is] the easiest ML in the world if he is town, and if he's mafia we had no chance to get a read on him." I sort of thought that bit was implied, but w/e. My issue with Onegu's approach is that he: 1. Joke voted me 2. Found this 'slip', despite having seen me post the same thing before in every game we've played together (and always both been town) 3. Ignored Shape saying basically exactly the same thing 4. Now has a scum read on GB which seems to come from GB trying to meta read Onegu and Onegu saying GB should know better. But he ignored that scott also had a meta read on him (perhaps because scott's meta read was town?). My issue with this approach is that it is very easy for him, as mafia, to come into the thread and spew the same stuff over and over again about the 'slip'. That is super scummy to me. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On January 02 2016 02:30 GiygaS wrote: Kmatt may have been first to vote, but all his reasoning was said before by others. He didn't point to those posts though, he presented the insights as his own by adding some random quotes from GB's filter. He did the exact same thing on me too. I still have him as a major scumlean, as this is pretty much his only analysis content. The post where he answered a lot of questions he just summarized the situations. This with his weird reasoning to flip back to GB again despite not liking his scum lean because he's "more dangerous". Hmm that's a fair point. It's def scummier just to sheep onto someone with no new reasons, but I hadn't thought about the possibility of sheeping onto someone for new reasons. Honestly Kmatt's read and vote progression was pretty all over the place D1. Usually that's something I push really hard. The issue I've had though is that everyone who has played like this has usually been newbie town, rather than scum. When I was scum in SOTW2 I was sort of terrified to change my vote at all. Has Kmatt explained what he meant by 'more dangerous'? I'd like to hear it if he has. Will look at his filter now. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
On January 01 2016 15:02 NocturneMage wrote: Can you explain this? (bolded) If you read Noon's filter carefully you will see subsequent pushback. I think that when I made my post, things hadn't really moved on from his read on Kmatt. I do think up to around that point he was pretty scummy, for the reasons I gave. After that, though, I think his filter has been ... up and down. I liked alot that he thought over the case against Kmatt, and engaged GB on it quite extensively. It's difficult to see a particularly scummy reason for defending Kmatt -- scum would probably prefer to keep that avenue open (see #404). I did not like his case on me at all at #513, and a couple of other people posted that it was quite lacking. He actually says specifically at #571 that he didn't vote me for the scum slip, he did it because of his case. But as soon as the day was over, he admitted his case was bad (#633). Since then he has questioned Onegu on scum slips (#668), and thrown a bunch of shade on people at #696. He admitted in his post that the reads were ehhh, and I agree they were. Still, I think it's townie to start thinking about people others hadn't really been (especially mderg and Irish). I see that an experienced scum would probably start doing that now to set up the board for late game, but for a newer player I think it makes a ton more sense to just be typical townie paranoia. I also don't like that he aggressively pushed his case on me up until EOD, at which point he dropped it and hasn't really talked about me since. That could be because he realised he was tied to a weak case, and that the easiest thing was just to drop it. At the same time, we now know that scott was town, so it kinda makes more sense for this to be a townie Kush re-evaluating. That especially makes sense because Kush was town-reading scott and so would definitely have wanted me to get lynched, since I was the only other viable wagon. So, yeah. I think kush is probably town. | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
| ||
