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Rels
France13467 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't care. It is not the right question. The right question is "is DP scum or town for that" and the right answer is; town There is not my question though. If you're town, that post was made by scum. On a scale from 0 to 10, corresponding to "horrible person" to "angel", how would you rate DP as a person ? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe. ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:19 GreYMisT wrote: So first off everyone needs to have a lynch target and analysis post before day end. a new one. if someone does not everyone is to assuume that person is scum. I will have one as well, so dont worry. I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe. ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post. Nope this is super fucking retarded greymist. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:34 DarthPunk wrote: Nope this is super fucking retarded greymist. Explain your reasoning. You are a potential lynch target so you need to back up every assertion | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:19 GreYMisT wrote: So first off everyone needs to have a lynch target and analysis post before day end. a new one. if someone does not everyone is to assuume that person is scum. I will have one as well, so dont worry. I also have something and I want both DP and Rels to humor me, and i'd like rayn to go along with it. I'd like both of you to do your best to make a case on rayn. disregard how unlikly it is, or whether or not its something youu actually believe. ill be here occassionally to respond, but ill mainly be following along and gathering my thoughts for the end of night post. LOL you're the doc not the mayor last time I checked. But it's going to be easy. I think rayn is scum because he couldn't swear he's town; and I think I know why. If he swears he's town, that means DP is confirmed being a super dick posting a super cheap post; and rayn cannot do this. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:43 GreYMisT wrote: Explain your reasoning. You are a potential lynch target so you need to back up every assertion Because Rayn being scum makes no fucking sense based on everything that has happened in this game. Why would he lynch fucking Marv instead of just winning the game? He is blatantly town and fucking around making cases that nobody believes in only confuses the actual thinking that needs to happen. And what needs to happen is this: You and Rayn need to filter dive both rels and I and when we vote for each other at lylo whichever one of you is left will need to make a decision. That is the correct play. I will never ever ever lynch or vote for Rayn and I will not read or make a case on him. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On December 18 2015 01:02 DarthPunk wrote: Because Rayn being scum makes no fucking sense based on everything that has happened in this game. Why would he lynch fucking Marv instead of just winning the game? He is blatantly town and fucking around making cases that nobody believes in only confuses the actual thinking that needs to happen. And what needs to happen is this: You and Rayn need to filter dive both rels and I and when we vote for each other at lylo whichever one of you is left will need to make a decision. That is the correct play. I will never ever ever lynch or vote for Rayn and I will not read or make a case on him. Thanks, you've given me what I wanted. I'll need time to interpret the information you and rels have both given me. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On December 18 2015 00:57 Rels wrote: LOL you're the doc not the mayor last time I checked. But it's going to be easy. I think rayn is scum because he couldn't swear he's town; and I think I know why. If he swears he's town, that means DP is confirmed being a super dick posting a super cheap post; and rayn cannot do this. What is cheap about that post exactly? Everything in it was true and I fucking self voted, I wasn't angry or rage quitting. I just hoped Rayn would win the game after I died. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On December 18 2015 01:07 DarthPunk wrote: What is cheap about that post exactly? Everything in it was true and I fucking self voted, I wasn't angry or rage quitting. I just hoped Rayn would win the game after I died. It's cheap if you're scum. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
I was looking at the end of day 1 and I think Rels is mafia. Here is why. Look at the state of the votes when Rels makes his final vote switch off of rayn to Rtani: On December 14 2015 06:54 Rels wrote: Arsoul is scum that I don't know why everyone is townreading Rayn might be omgus but I don't like this thing Gm is probably scum Here is what I think but I've not read anything that happened today On December 14 2015 06:55 Rels wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote rsoul On December 14 2015 06:55 Rels wrote: Alright this was my last will See you later folks  At the point of this final vote, this is the vote count (edited to remove Damdreds vote that came after Rels') On December 14 2015 06:57 LoneMeow wrote: Vote count: marvellosity (2): DarthPunk (1): marvellosity Rels (3): RtaniSoul (1): raynpelikoneet (0): At this point Rels has not posted really aything about Marv, only that he has a townread on him becuase otherwise he would have voted Rels instead of DP (we of course know this to be false). So, as far as Rels knows, he is going to die. And at this point, Rels could have saved himself by voting for Marvellosity, giving marv the new plurality. So the question remains: why didn't rels do this? One argument is that Rels sincerely thought that Rtani was most likely the scum, and that marv is innocent. First off he voted Rtani after recognizing the entire thread was townreading them at this point, so he must have known that there would be no vote switch here. I think if Rels really cared he would have given more of a reason to switch off. Rels argues that he thought Marv was town becuase otherwise Marv would have voted for Rels and tried to secure the lynch that way, however I don't actually think this is likely. Marv actually was scum and he entered the thread not voting for Rels. This is becuase marv's survival strategy at the end of day 1 had to be to show the thread that he is capable and can be an asset day 2, and he did that by coming in with a different lynch target. Thus the fact that he didnt vote for Rels should not have made marv look any more townie. The only explination I can see for why Rels didnt try to save his own life (allegidly a townie) at the end of day 1 by lynching someone who he didnt have a good reason to believe was town, is that both Rels and Marv are scum together. At this point in the game it looked like there would be a decent chance marv would survive the next day, so Rels would not want to hammer his scummate when it looks like Rels himself was taking a lot of suspicion. I think the mafia plan was to actually sacrifice Rels and have him through a bunch of flack around at the end of the day. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
My plan to let marv get modkilled. Here is Rels response: On December 13 2015 19:56 Rels wrote: We do not gain a mislynch from a modkill. With a mislynch + NK we are at 3v2 LYLO tomorrow With a modkill + mafia lynch + NK we are at 3v1 MYLO tomorrow. With a modkill + mislynch + NK we lost. Here is DP's response: On December 13 2015 17:56 DarthPunk wrote: Why are you deflecting the decision making onto others here? Do you not have your own opinion on what we should do in this situation? I talked about my thoughts about these differences earlier, and still think it looks a bit better for DP here. While Rels is quick to jump in and explain why the plan is bad, DP is the only one to attack me about it. This evidences to me that DP was in a scumhunting state of mind when he came upon my post. Regarding Rels, this is more or less neutral. however, I will point out that damdred had already said never play for the mod kill, and Rels swooped in later to basically say the same thing in different words. End of Day 1 Lot of stuff happened here. Here is a breakdown of what Rels did: See previous post. DP: I like what DP did here. He unvotes Marv becuase he gets back, but keeps pressuring him, questioning his reasoning. He ends up coming to the same conclusion I think I did at the end of the day, that lynching marv is a mistake on day 1 (though I believe for different reasons). but then he just turns over lynching power to Rayn, and commits some hours before the day ends as well. Now we of course dont know what would have happened had Rayn not said Rels, but DP would have looked pretty bad had he not gone along with what Rayn said. The whole thing about me on night 1 and day 2 Rels: not going to quote it all To me this exhance is pretty neutral now. He could either be scum just trying to force his read upon the town, or tunnlevisioned town trying to force his read upon the town. However I think something can be said for how, when I wasnt giving him the answers he wanted, he didnt really engage anyone else to try to convince them, he instead just kept pushing me. I would think a town would be more likely to say "fuck it you are scum" and then really only talk to other people and try to get them on board. DP: I like what he did here, he was actually trying to understand what the hell Rels was talking about and voicing his opinion on it. End of day 2 DP tried to get people off of Rtani and even ended the day voting himself. Rels: there is a lot but my hands hurt from typing. I don't like his attidtude at the end of this day. Seems to be putting words and arguments into people's mouths And right now there is this weird as hell "swear your not scum thing" that convinces him that Ryan is scum | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Here is why Rels is mafia: 1) He is sticking his shit everywhere to see where it sticks: When you literally question everything in the game you are obviously sometimes going to hit something that looks good / scummy on other people (see for example they Greymist stuff on N1-D2 here). But the point is, in a mafia game not everything is scummy. As i said, and like the hydra pointed out too, if you question 100 things in the game and you find about 2-3 things that are scummy then it's just that you are scum. It actually just clutters up the thread and makes you look "overzealous townie", like Greymist has had an impression here. Sure, this works as a towntell with people who have not played with Rels many times and sure, this could apply to many people who are just inexperienced at this game or bad, but Rels is not. Again, i asked you both go read Rels' scumgames, neither of you did. I should have probably yelled harder, but i don't like to repeat myself. So once again, go read and see what Rels' scumplay actually looks like and re-evaluate your "overzealous townie" argument if you still have one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494436-season-of-the-witch-2?user=Rels http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/497443-resistance-v-section-31?user=Rels http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/494873-battle-of-the-drams-mafia?user=Rels You know, there is a reason why me and the Hydra called Rels mafia based on meta. It's because we have actually seen his scumplay. 2) Alot of his questioning is "driving an agenda" rather than trying to figure out what is scummy or what is not: Here i present you few examples: On December 17 2015 18:13 Rels wrote: Let's imagine you're scum. You are the most objectively scummy person in the game. But you win because you make a bullshit emotionnal post. Would you be happy with your win ? On December 17 2015 23:54 Rels wrote: Don't be overdefensive for nothing. Can you swear you are not scum ? On December 17 2015 23:57 Rels wrote: So you cannot swear you are not scum ? Both of these "conversations" are not designed to figure out if someone is mafia or not. Both of these conversations are designed with intent of "i know what i will say next and i am not giving you any chance to have more than one possible answer". It's literally bullshit -- Rels designs a narrative and uses leading questions to further his agenda. This is not town motivated, because that's not how townies operate. There are more instances of this but since i am in a hurry you can probably figure them out yourself. There was one on the Hydra's posting and one on Greymist earlier. 3) Rels' actions during the game changing happenings: First; when Greymist claims doctor (or even before that, when it becomes clear he is a doctor). Second; when the Hydra flips town In both of these instances Rels does not move on and go look at the correct answer/lynch. Instead he responds to the situation with "oh i can't believe this happened" / "oh i can't believe they are town". Go read his posts around those times. When people get mislynched or when you were wrong, sure you get mad at times. But what Rels did was not just "i was wrong, fuck", it's more of a fucking self-weeping whining, which is not townie. People are wrong all the time, when you are wrong, you just say "fuck me" and move on. Basically i find this very scummy since here, Rels should try his best to figure out the correct answer if he is town. I find this nothing more than a poor AtE attempt since other people shared his view and idk.. can "identify themselves having the same kinda feelings". It's just a way of saying nothing relevant to figuring out the game -- it's a non-needed self-defense before being attacked. 4) My case earlier on: On December 15 2015 06:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Rels: - I don't like his EOD, i really don't, i disagree with Damdred here. The thing is Rels said he hasn't read most of the posts when shit started to happen, yet he doesn't listen to anyone when he comes back at the EOD, just starts yelling idk.. something... - The scumread on marv suddenly disappears there, without him properly reading marv's posts - I agree with the two-head here, many of Rels' points seem to lead nowhere and are minor points that do not actually matter at all alignment-wise - Actually this shit here points towards Rels more than Greymist. Look at what i say about Greymist's post, and what Rels does: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2015 18:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: I never said there could not be scum between them. I said i think there is no way BOTH of the scum are between them. I provided analysis on why i reached to the conclusion. I am not arbitary putting people into categories, if you think my analysis is incorrect, please argue about why they are incorrect instead of just creating a narrative on the conclusion. I am not saying it is certain you are mafia. In fact i am far more sure of marv being scum at this point based purely on the fact that he well knows the game has started and has decided to not post anything at all. The conclusion that at least one of you / marv has to be mafia for me is completely logical based on the analysis on other people -- basically it is due to PoE. Again, if you do not agree with this, please point out where i am wrong in my analysis. Then we have something to argue about. Tbf, you can't just say something is scummy / wrong without actually explaining why it is that way. I feel like i have provided my thought process behind every conclusion i have made in this game -- so it would only be natural for you to actually try to disprove my conclusions if you attack my arguments, no? Again, i have already said why i think this is the case. Why is my (and Damdred's) "jump" on Rels "rushed and oppertunistic". I found out Rels' thought process illogical and the things he posted didn't match up with the conclusions he ended up with. I wanted him to elaborate further, and i don't think "that going nowhere" is my fault, since Rels' answer was basically "yeah that's what i think". In my opinion this has bearing when you analyze every single other player who has posted that far in the game. I consider it weird because if you are mafia you would either: 1) correctly call me town -- in which case it hinders your mislynch possibilities 2) incorrectly call me mafia -- in which case your logic is not sound in the first place and someone can catch you for it Furthermore at some point you were saying you didn't have a read on me. But around half of your case (idk.. is this a case?) is based on the timeline when you didn't have a read on me, and is also basically based on everything i did during that time.. How is it possible both of your statements are correct? On December 13 2015 19:50 Rels wrote: How is it scum indicative ? I'm one of the scumread of Damdred, it's normal he interrogates me on my actions. On the contrary, I think it's town indicative for rayn to share his thought process. It's only scum indicative if you can point how what he posted is not logical or deserves a scum agenda. He explained why he thought that. Can you point what is wrong or scum with his logic ? You seem to consider me town since apparently Damdred / rayn attacked me too easily. Why are you townreading me ? The notable difference here is the following: What i did i pointed out why Greymist was talking about something that i NEVER said. What Rels did is he just asked "why is this scummy?". I believe this shows a lack of reading the thread properly and understanding why people say the things they do, since the correct question here, for Rels, should be "rayn never said what you claim here -- why are you saying he did?". If i actually did what Greymist said in his post that WOULD be scummy, but the fact is i didn't. I think this is the strongest point against Rels, and i missed that before. Also notice that the post Rels made came AFTER i had already posted my response to Greymist. These things are actually scummy. They are, and Rels has done nothing to answer them. Furthermore i asked him to elaborate into why marv did not vote for him if he is town. As i said, everyone else had one or another reason for it. Rels didn't. At the time it was actually a very relevant discussion point because we ACTUALLY had a scumflip. If Rels is town, there MUST be an explanation why marv did what he did. Rels doesn't have any. Because there isn't any. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
I am pretty sure noone of you understands why i read DP's "giving up" post as town. It's not because of AtE, I am actually looking behind the words and trying to figure out why people say the stuff they do in this game. I am completely aware DP could make that post Rels is so pumped up on as mafia, but not in the context it is posted in, for the following reason: The starting point is this post from DarthPunk: On December 16 2015 06:08 DarthPunk wrote: I think the hydra is a better lynch than Rels. Rayn I would love to play one of these games where the mafia team tries a bit harder. It kinda sucks that the game is solved already. Anyway ##vote: RtaniSoul I believe DP genuinely believes what he says here, regardless of his affiliation. I also felt kinda "fucked" at some point because of marv's and the hydra's lack of play. I understand their reasons but still, the truth is they didn't play their best, neither of them. Then i make this case on DP, and he responds in the following: On December 16 2015 23:20 DarthPunk wrote: it's actually fine for me to die. Just make sure you get the last lynch right. game stuff ends here I have this feeling in the pit of my stomach like I really want to fight my lynch the way I would have in the past but real life takes too much time to play mafia properly and there is no way I can work a 12 hour day on less than 6 hours sleep. During this game I was able to spend at the most 3 hours per day to read and post in the thread and the way I have always played has been in a very interactive way that requires lots of time and attention and spam  Basically the reason I am saying all this because this will be my last game of mafia for the foreseeable future. (No Rayn you will not again convince me to play after I refuse citing time constraints so you can lynch me due to not doing enough.) It is not fair on my past self and all the effort I used to put into this game I loved. I can't play to my own standards and it is incredibly frustrating to be in that situation where instead of a mafia god I am a fucking grandfather who should have already retired. I am grateful though that I got to play in this last game with two of my favourite players ever (marv/Rayn) And someone new who vividly reminds me of how I once played the game. So thanks for that. Also, as it's my own fucking eulogy: Rso you are legit terrible at the game. Artanis fuck you for not trying in vengeful you prick. Rayn thanks for the memories but I still lynched the shit out of you in hydra. Marv you are a god except your ego is a force of fucking nature. Fuck you holy flare. I think that's everything . I'm turning off my phone so I can salvage some sleep. It was a wild ride while it lasted. Peace! I understand my case here is not 100% right, and that i might have misjudged DP's play since it's been awhile when i have last played with him. The bolded part here is the important part. I completely understand this from the town point of view. This makes no sense from mafia point of view. It makes completely sense that DP is angry at himself here as he has had time constraints in comparison to each other. As his play revolves around interacting with people, i can understand it's really fucking annoying when someone calls you out for basically "not interacting" when it has been impossible for you. Now he COULd have played differently but... ...if DarthPunk is mafia here, my case is the exact reason he is mafia, and he knows it. That is the reason i don't see him making this post, especially the bolded part, as mafia. It doesn't make any sense to get genuinely mad when someone calls you scum for the reasons you are scum for. It just doesn't make any fucking sense to me. - Furthermore his read evolvement on Greymist throughout the game is really townie - His actions during D1, when marv was here are pure townie (i have talked about this before) There is basically no way he is scum here. Lynch Rels. He is mafia. Thank you. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On December 17 2015 00:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't understand any of the shit you say here in this stream of quotes. It's like you are talking about two different things and somehow making it seem like they are one thing... On December 17 2015 00:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, that's not what anyone is saying. Hydra is/was saying it most likely makes you mafia!! what the fuck does this mean? Of course you are not gonna admit/say that marv did not vote for you because you are mafia. What the fuck is this sentence even TRYING to say? | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
![[image loading]](https://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/micro-sculptures-willard-wigan-art-1.jpg?w=500&h=365) Day 3 GreYMisT the Town Doctor has died. Day ends Saturday, Dec 19 9:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
On December 16 2015 19:50 DarthPunk wrote: Rayn is smart enough to analyze the game again at LYLO. As am I (though I don't feel the need to as there is no way on earth rayn is scum) DP why did you make this post? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43266 Posts
Who would you have killed if you were mafia and why? | ||
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