On December 18 2015 14:02 Tictock wrote:Humm, so reading through Rels filter again he's been fairly aggressive this game.
I like some of the pushes and questions he asks early on (several of them were questions I had reading through the game as well). I kinda gave him a pass based on some of this early activity and the fact that he wasn't really trying to buddy anyone or lead the thread like I've seen him do as scum.
His first list post seems odd to me, like it's a pile of unfounded townreads.
On December 16 2015 05:26 Rels wrote:
Reading the thread I had these as town
Town
LS
Shape
sukrit
Maybe town
Koshi
ritoky
I would lynch TT Damdred or TS right now. giygas wasn't as bad as I thought. The others I have no idea atm.
LS is his top town based off the meta that LS never uses Caps as scum.
This is the first time Rels mentions Shape and Sukrit(Onegu).
The Koshi read is a bit odd too here, because Rels last post to Koshi was this
On December 15 2015 19:07 Rels wrote:On December 15 2015 19:04 Koshi wrote:
I haven no clue on how good Damdred can read LS. I also don't give a fuck about it. He can be wrong.
1) Weak that you lose your suspicion of LS due to 1 capslock sentence. But I can see it possible coming from town Rels after waking up.
2) I really don't see how it makes him mafia. GaygiS Khan never claimed he is certain you are mafia, he admits it is a bit of a pressure vote as well. You are/ were not a bad place to put a pressure vote on. I liked the play.Well you should appreciate the pressure back when all he had to show for rereading the game and filters was one case that was wrong.
Or you're scum with him.
After that Rels is more focused on Me and Damdred, and then suddenly Koshi is probably town? I suppose Rels never actually accused Koshi of being scum, just implied he might be, but I can see a tr like this coming from a scum!Rels wanting Koshi to back off.
Rit is probably the read that makes the most sense here since Rels has been agreeing with his case on me and Rels questioned Rit on a few points. It's interesting then that Rit ends up last on this list then.
A post like this is pretty meaningless, since it's just a list of people with no reasons, besides those I can assume. It's also a nice post to make as scum since it makes it look like you are trying to get townreads but unfounded reads like these are really easy to flip later on.
It's also really Ironic that Rels made this post after scumreading Damdred for doing the same thing.
On December 16 2015 05:20 Rels wrote:
I think Damdred is scum.
Damdred is not invested in the game, which is already a big indicator.
Damdred usually plays D1 by finding townreads, and lynching the one not in his town list. Here I have the distinct impression he tried to replicate that but failed. He has a couple of easy townreads that are not mostly based on nothing:
Overall though I feel like Rels was rather involved with EoD.
On December 16 2015 06:03 Rels wrote:
ritoky a word on Damdred please ?
This is actually an interesting post because if Rels is scum he knows that Rit is town here, which if Rels is pushing a town!Damdred might be a risky move. Rit and Damdred used to be known for having a strong Soul read on each other, Rit even mentioned it himself. So if scum!Rels were trying to push a ML here he probably wouldn't want to get Rit's input. This probably sounds like a load of WIFOM, but I think it's actually somewhat solid.
I also don't think it makes any sense for Rels and Damdred to both be scum here, there was no reason for Rels to make a case on Damdred after asking this:
On December 16 2015 05:00 Rels wrote:
yo I'm there, we shoudl consolidate. Why are people voting for people ? TT I know why and I agree. GB are the things on the others ?
Also Rels voted for Kush and it looked very likely that Kush was going to be lynched, if we are going down the road of scum!Damdred voted Vivax to protect Kush then there is absolutly no way that Rels is scum with him.
So 100% Rels and Damdred are never scum together this game
This gets me to Rel's response to Tube's case.
This post might be huge but for clarity here are the posts I'm reffering too:
Tube's Post
#719 with his Rels read
+ Show Spoiler +Rel's Response(
#724) to the case
+ Show Spoiler +The first part is about Rel's LS read, which I agree is a weak read. However, the way Tube talks about Rels backing off from the fight feels wrong. There wasn't a fight at all, LS posted all caps in response to Damdred and Rels used the meta read that LS never does that as mafia to tr him there.
Now I think that's a bad reason to think LS is town, I mean how hard is it to hold the SHIFT key or tap Caps Lock and go "WTF?!? WHY YOU DO THAT!?!?!?"? I think it was Kush who pointed out that scum!Rels prob wouldn't flip LS to town so easly, and give up on mislynching him. While that is a decent line of thinking I can also see Scum!Rels make the meta read on LS, then see the caps and think "Shit now meta points to town" and quickly flip his read.
Humm I think I see what Tube was getting at with this LS read, but I don't think this makes Rels scum.
Tube making the point about Rels catching Onegu smurfing is definitly off though. Even if Tube is sitting there scratching his head about how Rels did that it makes far less sense that Rels would out his partners smurf than Rels took the time to search games.
The rest of Tubes case I can understand. Rels early case on LS was pretty shit, his early reads on me and gig were largely based on other's cases or OMGUS. I also agree that if Kush flips mafia then Rels is town as his vote was too early to be a bus when he could have easily tried to push back to me or onto GB. I'm not so sure that Kush flipping town makes Rels more likely to be mafia. I agree with Rels there that if D1 lynch was Town v Town then mafia are not likely to have been very involved.
Continueing to look at the exchanges between Tube and Rels here.
Tube's response (#747) to Rels starts off talking about the Caps Lock stuff.
The caps lock reasons are pure teasing you. What you are saying is that I am also solely TRing Koshi because he had 1 post near EOD that was all caps lock. That's silly. I am most definitely NOT TRing LS because he had half a post that was caps. But I did want to check it. First I saw he didn't use it as scum but then I wondered if he did as town. So, I checked that too. I still think it's a silly reason so I made fun of you for it. For the record I TR LS for his comfortable tone and he has a bigger filter than I think mafiaLS would. I may have stated before but for LS I don't pay too much attention until D2.5/3 because then he is OBVIOUS. His caps lock statement was NAI. Even though he hasn't done it in his 4 scum games, I think he's entirely capable of it. So it's NAI, but apparently for you it overcomes a SHOCKING difference.
The bolded line I 100% agree with however the first part of this kinda feels like Tube is backtracking a little on his point there. Though if Tube is scum here I'm not sure why he would decide to start a fight with Rels of all players, especially when Tube thinks Rels will not backdown easily.
I disagree that Rels was uninvolved in D1 lynch though and him making a case on Damdred is a decent sign of that. I think Tube is focusing more on Rels vote on Kush:
On December 16 2015 06:48 Rels wrote:
Whatever OK to lynch kush. I don't think GB is likely to flip scum.
##Unvote
##Vote kushm4sta
Which is a pretty flippant vote but it also sounds a little frustrated that nobody will listen. Maybe I just sympathize here kus my push on Gig was just as ineffective.
Looking at the Stuff between Rels and Koshi (and especially since I've proven to myself that a Damdred/Rels team is never a thing here) I can totally understand Rel's frustration. What Koshi is pushing here really makes no sense.
As for Rels himself... well I actually do see him possibly being scum this game. I pointed out theres some contradictions in his case on Damdred, but I also think it's interesting Rels didn't reffernce Season of the Witch 2 since his case is largely based on meta. SotW2 had Rels and Damdred as scum and Damdred was playing a rather inactive game there, so if Rels thinks Damdred is doing the same thing here I would think he should want to pull up meta from that game on Damdred. The stuff about his reads besides Damdred being based on thread sentiment or OMGUS is true.
I think Damdred pointed out that town!Rels likes to dog people about questions, maybe everyone has just done a good job responding to him this game but I haven't see him doing that here. I'm also used to Rels making more cases based on non-meta stuff, but I have seen him falling into these kinds of reads more and more.
Still I can't seem to let go of a gut feeling that Rels is town here due how he's been interacting with people and not trying to set himself up to look good.
Honestly I think I'd like to give Rels more time to try and Read him a little better.
Having said that I have to admit there are some decent points put against him, if I had to pick between Rels and Damdred I think I would prefer Rels. I'd still rather lynch Vivax or Gig before either of them.
I know Gig says he's busy for a couple more days due to finals but I can't help but feel like it's an excuse since he's basically said he has no reads besides thinking I'm scum for stuff Rit said. Since I seem to be one of the minority concerned about Gig I suppose I'm ok giving him another day. Still if he pulls a Scott here I might get somewhat unbearable later.
Actually I'm getting more flashbacks to last game with people's activity dropping off a little more today, hopefully that's not a trend. I've enjoyed the pace we've had thus far.
Sorry let me wrap up this mega-post by saying I think I need to filter dive Tube next. Based on my last catching up read of the game I like how much he's been putting into the game today and him pushing on Rels as opposed to an afk Vivax or less active Gig or Kush (hell Onegu and to a less extent Damdred actually fall into this category today) seems fairly towny to me. Still a couple of things Rels pointed out clicked with me so I should investigate further.
Right now my gut is telling me Rels vs Tube is town v town, but I could see one of them being mafia here.
EPT
