[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31 - Page 24

On November 14 2015 01:54 Vivax wrote:
We have time cause this team won't be passing tonight, let me go through this SL stuff kita wants me to read then I'll do one thing at a time before I get into unproductive spamming mode.

I really enjoyed being able to easily find things I said in my filter but that will only work if I stop spamming.

Your servile tone pleases me, Rels. You might make a good butler one day.

On November 14 2015 09:11 Tictock wrote:
Day 3
ShoCkeyy's Nomination (Shockey, Vivax, Half the Sky, sicklucker)
Vote Result

Half the Sky - YES
Xatalos - NO
Artanis[Xp] - YES
Coagulation - NO
ShoCkeyy - YES
Rels - NO
sicklucker - YES
kitaman27 - NO
Vivax - NO

MISSION IS REJECTED

Day 3
Rels's Nomination Phase
Phase will end in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00) on 14 November 2015.

This was a bit rushed as I'm posting via mobile, will fix it up later. Not all votes were sent to me so if there was a mistake please PM myself or Fidei and we will get it fixed asap.

Apologies for the delay

On November 15 2015 02:12 Half the Sky wrote:
Sidenote - Rels if I could hug you right now, I would. <3

I'm going out again. Will be in and out.

On November 15 2015 01:53 Half the Sky wrote:
Well it should be obvious to everyone else, but just in case, purposely leaving myself off, I would propose the following teams if I was leader.

Team of 4: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey (Shockey is switchable for Coag depending on how people feel)
Team of 5: Artanis/Vivax/sicklucker/Shockey/Coagulation

I strongly feel that rayn was town, but if people have had doubts on him respective of his voting record, I am confident in the other four.

I have nothing to hide.

On November 15 2015 04:23 kitaman27 wrote:


Hmm, so now you're saying me or rayn failed the second mission? o.O

On November 15 2015 05:36 sicklucker wrote:


im pretty sure im vivax's strongest townread now and its very logical. Do you live in paris?

On November 15 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote:
On mobile, bear with me please.



The answer to that question is yes, we've chatted out of game

Aside, overall I feel this is a WIFOM attempt to (perhaps?) eventually get on someone's team and eventually fail a mission.

I will explain why in his world, this proposal does not make sense from town side.
(All references at bottom of post so you can see context and judge for yourselves.)

From town side.

Rels was hard scumreading Artanis and in his world one of Artanis or myself has to be mafia. He is proposing a team with both of us on it.

He was asking me multiple times (well at least once I know I recall) why I was townreading Artanis. He concluded that one of us has to be scum. Now? He places both of us on the team.

Second he hard townreads rayn. Now? He leaves him off. Not as sharp as the first point, but quite curious given prior reads.

Furthermore he pushes the line that it's not possible that two scums voted no, and then Artanis and I having both voted yes, he puts us both up. (I don't believe I misunderstood this.)

What changed? (of course, when you can answer, I understand obv not right away)

Overall, ironically the team he's put up is a clean team, but seeing as town have to get three missions passed to win and scum only need to fail one more, I have a strong sense of WIFOM/disassociation/tinfoil/whatever you want to call it about so another scummer (or him?) can slip through on a later mission (Kita's or someone else slipping up).

Follow the read progression folks.

References:
1 Scumreading Artanis v myself
Rels' filter page 20/thread page 127-128 (posts 2540/2552)
Rels' filter page 21/thread pages 129 on and off through 138 (posts 2572, 2638, 2639, 2640, 2654, 2667, 2758)
Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139 (posts 2766)
- trying to convince Artanis he's scum)

2 Townread of rayn
Rels' filter page 22/thread page 139-140 (post 2769/2773/2775/2777/2779/2782/2783)
- Artanis' post on familiarity is valid as Rels has played 3 games with rayn (SOTW, Newbie 13, Drams) at least 2 he was abrasive, warned in Drams (which rayn admitted to).

3 Rels pushing the two scums voting no line
Rels' filter page 23/thread page 143 (post 2844)
- he was pushing that well before that page before but that was the latest he was pushing that idea

On November 15 2015 07:26 sicklucker wrote:
we should all vote no to this and see who votes yes. ill put up pretty much the same team next anyway. more info the better and artanis can still be scum. Dont say you agree if you agree ill vote no

On November 15 2015 07:28 Half the Sky wrote:


I will be very honest, I really feel this team is clean.

But if you want me to downvote this team, I can. I definitely trust you and Vivax and that will put the 5th mission in my hands (assuming we all downvote whatever Kita puts up) so I can go either way on this.

I can also do one final check on Artanis as well prior to upvoting.

On November 15 2015 07:31 Half the Sky wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "don't say you'll agree/if you agree"

But if it is trust you need me to resolve and you're tinfoiling me, then I'll downvote it for you. I think that might be the issue here.

On November 15 2015 22:15 Vivax wrote:
I need to correct one part of the argument: Rayn posted the thing about him not pushing SL after the mission failed, not after it was passed. I misread the time there.





This might be semantics/a mistake but asking Xata to explain why he would scumread Shockey shouldn't make sense from rayn's perspective, he should be glad of Xata accepting Shockey being scum.

Then we proceed to this:







So the mission fails. Only SL and Artanis vote no as predicted. HTS and shockey vote yes.

What happens afterwards is that rayn commits suicide by host for some reason.
But that at a time where he could have done this:

Go wtf on the 2 yes votes and immediately start looking for the mafia on that wagon.

Given what he said about those voting no, rayn here would have immediately gone for a team of HTS/Shockey/??? Xatalos!

Cause SL voting no here and Xata voting yes should have immediately put Xata into the scummy corner for him.

But that wasn't possible cause then the mission wouldn't have failed.

So the only conclusion to be gained from this mission is that either rayn, Xata or kita were mafia, which would have made it impossible for HTS and shockey to be mafia too.

Instead of thinking logically here, rayn decided to throw a tantrum of rage on purpose, cause the only logical conclusion to be had was that he was dead wrong and that he would look much worse.

On November 15 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.

Anyway, game is already solved. Kita is clearly mafia for creating narratives on both me and Vivax rather than actual cases, actually construing things that are towny to make it look mafia. He's also been extremely disconnected from the thread, just doing his own thing and interacting once or twice at most before just discontinuing and going back doing his own thing.

Rels is mafia for doing things he accused me of. He made a team he doesn't even believe in himself with two of his scumreads on it, as well as the fact that he's been pushing everyone in the start based on trivial stuff. He also couldn't explain why he flipped on Rayn very well. The team he sent in is clearly WIFOM and it means nothing as there's 0 chance he actually expects it to go through, with everyone and their mum scumreading him. It might actually make it more likely that everyone on there is town so that SL can wifom himself into adding a scum (which appears to be working).

SL clearly isn't scum for how much he's tryharding and struggling to put on a team as well as suggesting not to put himself on a mission to do it by mission 5. SL doesn't try hard unless he feels he has to and if he was mafia he really didn't need to at this point.

Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.

Xata is scum due to everything HtS has said. Being very vague in general, not properly evaluating HtS and also PoE. SL and Rayn probably aren't scum so he has to be.

I will be yayvoting the team, especially since the only semi-doubtful member of my 6-person town team isn't in there, and I just don't think Rels actually expects this mission to have any chance of going through.

On November 16 2015 00:58 Half the Sky wrote:


You're cherry picking a LOT of stuff here. Artanis had a response to what Kita said and why Kita was guilty of framing that in a mafia lens and not seeing the townie half of that.

I am saying that what you are doing if taken seriously makes no sense for a town standpoint.

As mafia you have every incentive to try and fool people when you're up 2-0 so you can find a way to slip one of yourselves in a team.

Independent of whatever you pick, there's nothing wrong with looking at the people independently and the way they have played the game so far and reach a different conclusion on what you are trying to do with that information. Additionally, you fail to consider the conversation that I had with sicklucker before the team was formalised.

Such selective reasoning, it's pathetic. VERY mafia motivated here.

On November 16 2015 01:00 Half the Sky wrote:


Not overexplanation, but re-emphasis, this is just a summary of all of his reads of the game to another player who has replaced in and may not have grasped everything he's absorbed in a shorter amount of time.

This is absolutely pathetic from you, how you are re-framing this from an exclusively mafia lens. If you are going to call this mafia, explain why the reads themselves (or his bases) are mafia.

On November 14 2015 20:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Oh and Rayn was definitely town. Everything about him just said town. Typical tunneling for people not making sense and getting angry over it.

On November 15 2015 22:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
So I was typing this as you rudely started seeding doubt.

[...]

Rayn is probably town due to the way he was interacting with people and actually held back at the start, but eventually caved in and went full you-aren't-being-logical-so-you-must-be-scum-townrayn. The way he behaved aligned up exactly with how I'd expect townrayn to behave.