EPTNewbie Student Mafia XVII: Fullmetal Edition - Page 11
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
and if you are so sure of trfel being town for whatever reason ritoky, then where does that put you with Fecalfeast pushing against him? as for Fecalfeast's case impacting your vote, you clearly commented you liked it with the caveat that it was made so late. and you said you liked trfel's case on Fecalfeast. that was gathered from reading your filter relative and taking an order of events. and if you are saying that case did NOT impact your read, then how are you going from what you said in post 1244 to voting Breshke? "Breshke hasn't done anything...." and then Trfel even said "that push on Breshke was too easy." welp, there were several valid points against Breshke, the biggest one being the issue with the disformation/farah reads that he refused to explain especially at the time they were both scumreading each other. and unlike day 1, lack of followup, not like the way he kept pushing VE by contrast. It was a valid reason to change any read from prior day. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 22 2015 08:13 ritoky wrote: so you think that me and damdred are mafia? damdred is the only person i have a soul read on....and he is blue so it is pointless; but he already said his soul read on me says i am town. no. that is not at all what I am saying. the second sentence was a hypothetical that would have applied to any two such players soul-reading near the beginning of the game. long ago had reason to believe damdred's claim as true. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
And your scumteam won't win the game. Onegu, no idea either way honestly and why you think Trfel and I would be on a team together when I was hard scumreading him (and still have issues with aspects of his play at the moment) and prioritising Breshke over him in lynching him. So thinking that I could be on a scumteam or a possible scumteam with Trfel and Breshke is utterly absurd. my line of play would be a losing proposition. Also why are you second guessing your read on Shining? or to word it more specifically, where is the town side of things in Shining where you previously saw scum? You also have to explain why my explanations for "bussing" Breshke from your view don't make any sense. It was something disformation and I were discussing actually and we both voted Breshke early. So what makes him town and myself not so, I recall his explanation being similar to mine, and though I switched my vote to Trfel, I said multiple times I would switch back to Breshke if I needed to - highest likeliness of scum was the phrasing I used. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
questions, will try my best. Monday, will catch up best I can. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 22 2015 14:00 ritoky wrote: ^ bolded for potential suggesting cop check on GF is that enough deflection and promised analysis of eversince w/o really delivering anything on it for you? cuz there's more where it came from. very VERY clearly a possible world of 2. On the second part of this, I felt other issues were more important to answer/look through and the "without delivering anything" part is completely false, I eventually got to it in post 1161/1162 with a scumlean on her. Inactivity beyond that I know I said somewhere I didn't feel was alignment indicative. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 22 2015 14:29 Trfel wrote: I honestly don't want to play this game any more. It's miserable. I get ignored, then everyone calls me scum for stupid nonsense while never responding to anything I'm trying to say. Scum is going to win this game because no one is freaking listening. Fecalfeast is mafia and needs to be lynched. Onegu is likely mafia as well. I'll look through ritoky's filter tonight and then disformation's sometime tomorrow. If Fecalfeast flips town, how do you proceed? Shining also brought up the points on you being wrong several times on your reads. Why are you so convinced now? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
placeholder vote for now - will return and catch up in 1-2 hours. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 23 2015 01:39 Damdred wrote: Now this is the hard question to me. To me it seems moosey was the preference for scum going into the last 8-10 hours. No real counter wagon and we only see a flurry of people when moosey wagon starts breaking down. Way I'm reading it, Moosey maxed out at 5-6 votes The majority of the game is scattered about Trfel pushes a Scott lynch but states would be willing to lynch moosey as well just prefers moosey. Goes afk. Farah starts moving back and forth between Scott, Disfo being indecisive but doesn't want to lynch moosey. Geript pushes Breshke and gains Disfo and Farah tying him with moosey but not drawing ahead. Trfel shows up and yells about lynching Scott. Farah switches to Scott. Ff when he arrives votes Scott putting him into a 3-3-2 tie with moosey but ahead of Breshke. From this moment on Breshke has no chance of being lynched Trfel and ritoky stone wall the idea of lynching Breshke. People pile up on Scott, he gives a last second will ritoky freaks out and switches. Now what do you think is the most interesting thing in it disfo? Are you potentially suggesting a possible Trfel/ritoky scum team based off this? Though you are saying ritoky is likely town for (meta???) reasons or because you think Breshke vomited him town? Didn't most people townread ritoky day 1 anyhow, and do you think most scum would find a reason to scumread their own teammate if there was no reason to (in the event ritoky actually is mafia)? | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 23 2015 10:23 Fecalfeast wrote: I keep forgetting about shining. Is that bad or is everyone ok with shining? Could shining trfel be a team? I feel like the angry demeanor of trfel could signify he is feeling abandoned by his scumteam but that's some unflipped association that I shouldn't look too far into. I'm doubting it. If any scum player was unhappy with strategy you'd think they'd try to either hide it or communicate it in the mafia qt. Still I don't know how that ties directly to Shining tbf. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 23 2015 07:51 Trfel wrote: To expand: I've presented a complete argument for why Fecalfeast is mafia. Furthermore, he is basically guaranteed mafia because mafia didn't push onto him and away from Breshke after I posed this argument (the more I think about this, it's not 100% that mafia would do this, but it's extremely likely that they would have pushed it more if they could). Fecalfeast has not responded to my arguments at all. No one else has suggested why anything is at all invalid, either. So why are people townreading him? Alright, like I said in my last questioning to you, you've been wrong on all your reads, why are you convinced now [b]but more importantly where do you go from here if you are wrong on Fecalfeast? Like let's say for whatever reason Fecalfeast loses his head when he wakes up and pulls a Moosy and gets modkilled. He flips town. Then what? You think Onegu is mafia, great...but who is he with? as of last posting you haven't looked yet into ritoky and disformation. if you think either could possibly be mafia once you are caught up, could either of them be with anyone? As Damdred put it in similar wording, why are you not re-evaluating your reads? If you look at Fecalfeast's latest posting (are you or have you?) does that change anything you have on him? do you think his willing to die could come from mafia? what are the posts since your case that make you since he's mafia? Regarding the counterpush, an argument I can see against your last statement is cred on Breshke but others have covered that I think. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 24 2015 02:18 disformation wrote: I also bought some beers in order to celebrate future scum lynches (or drown my frustration).  Please don't take any mafia-game related drinking lessons from HTS regardless of alignment. I know she's coached you in the past, but still, just don't do it. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 24 2015 02:17 disformation wrote: Was stumbling about this line for a moment as well, but read it as "ritoky's vote was the final nail in scott's coffin". That can imply ritoky shifting the votes away from a teammate, but scott's filter was pretty bad so could have just thought scott was scum.^^ That being said I am not 100% sure on ritoky and FF. I think Onegu and Trfel have a higher chance of being mafia, but I don't think it is impossible for one of them having fooled us. Since Onegu has not even tried to do something I am currently kinda happy with were my vote is, though. Will try to figure out Trfel again. Getting a bit burned out of reading through filters, though. xD well if I can be quite frank, I really don't like the way ritoky is stretching to find a way to read me as potential mafia. namely, for the first part, setup doesn't make me (or anyone really) mafia and the association read he tried to draw with myself and onegu has been proven false. he mentioned his reads were unorthodox and that's fine but you still cannot just assume that setup vindicates or implicates people unless you are trying to use that in conjunction with say vote analysis (like killing the roleblocker). also the read on disformation is 50/50, not sure if he's really unsure (town) or trying to keep his options open as scum. following: On November 21 2015 10:11 ritoky wrote: disform's read have been flipping on a dime all game based on thread sentiment; it is nothing new. he is probably just easily influenced town though cuz of the post where he suggested lynching himself early and his sheeping onto breshke day 1. of non-conf town he is the most town in the game; not even close to being close. based of this disformation is town to him. On November 22 2015 13:44 ritoky wrote: to me the game is very simple. and i think you guys are doing all this crazy shit overcomplicating it. i am town -> most town all game, lynched mafia, who am i bussing? (self-metametametametameta) damdred is town -> blue ff is town -> tone + willing to be PoE shining is town -> my read is shit, confirmed it was shit, accepting others lynch these people and we win or get to mylo: tfel onegu remainder: NM -> lots of effort and cases, bizarre trfel post after flip, rando sudden push on me, not reading my responses, probably not mafia if trfel mafia though. disfo -> procedurally should be town for vote thing, but PoE + opinions move like water so he's easily influenced town whose opinions move like water? in spite of him reading disformation potential town for martyring/day 1 on breshke? still can't figure out when/how he decides the "opinions moving like water" outweighs the town behaviour from day 1 to keep him in poe. anyone have any thoughts there? also looking at his lynch list, the trfel post should not be "bizarre" as if he has read my filter, clearly he has read at least part of the filter because he tried to draw an association between myself and onegu, he should see how hard I was pushing trfel and the town bias for saying that trfel should be the lynch. the association read (if trfel is mafia, I'm probably not) is also poor because others were (and still are) pushing trfel as well, so how is fecalfeast (who voted him at a point) for example less mafia from that vantage point? he doesn't seem to be evaluating everyone from the same criteria is my point. the other issue with ritoky is that prior to his going afk, I looked in his filter for the amount of pushing/querying he's done on trfel. aside from his listed post (numbered, post 1244) he only has one other entire post (1270) asking his reason to back down off damdred's post to which trfel answered that he gives replacements a day pass and no followup on that since then, so assumed he was fine with that response. since then? zero. - why isn't trfel "angry town" anymore (independent of poe), post 1296 - furthermore assuming I'm not misinterpreting post 1503, he accuses Fecalfeast of pocketing him (which means he's mafia or mafia behaviour) (1) so what makes in ritoky's eyes fecalfeast more town based on tone/poe as opposed to trfel who appears still angry but apparently isn't town for it anymore? (2) and additionally why is disformation still in the poe list for the same criteria, he was earlier townread for "lynching himself early" and is put in poe now as opposed to fecalfeast who has done similar martyring? right now I'm at ritoky/trfel/onegu not nec in that order, I want to revisit fecalfeast in case I've missed something. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
ritoky, if you are able to find time to answer or fully explain the bolded, that would be splendid. I think I read pages 7-10 of your filter which is where I found most of the issues to be. | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
 So five on onegu with 3 not voting yet. Onegu, if you are town, you had better at least provide us some information from your perspective. I have reasons to lynch both ritoky and trfel (trfel having had more time to resolve them) if the concerns go unresolved but from what fecalfeast alluded earlier, you don't post much as town? at least some list post on who you think the scum taking advantage of your absence are.... | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
On November 24 2015 03:20 disformation wrote: Also remember when ritoky was scumreading FF and voting Breshke together with FF? wow I completely forgot that just now. I even said before he should have pushed on Fecalfeast with Trfel when he said the trfel case was good and caveated fecalfeast on breshke. if trfel said the push on breshke was the easiest push in the world (or scummy because it was so late)...ehhhhh I sort of want to hear from damdred in spite of all these issues why ritoky could actually be town here. trying to follow the read progression, the rationale and the changes in his reads after reading his filter in and out of context and there's either too many contradictions or double standards for his changes to be making any sense. also ignoring anything after he went afk for the holiday since reads will be poor regardless of alignment, the posts I take issue are before he has left. the point breshke vomiting ritoky town might be moot if ritoky was universally townread and I'm almost positive he was day 1. I mean I don't disagree it was an easy townread, but if ritoky is mafia and is universally townread there's no reason for scum breshke to unnecessarily draw attention to a scum partner. the reconsidering of shining here after the fact is one thing but for what else... | ||
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NocturneMage
United Kingdom1965 Posts
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