|
On September 06 2015 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:nvm here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 07:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The reason i am reading yamato town is because i talked with him on TS last night and he has rolled mafia for like 5 games in a row or something and i told him "hey let's wreck mafia if we are both town, it would be nice to play with you when you are actually town and play".
He basically promised to play in his first post, because he seems interested in the game and happy. If it's a fake post then i will 100% figure it out based on his play AFTERWARDS, but as per now there is zero reason to think yamato is mafia.
. And nothing has made me think otherwise after i made the post.
Meh. I didn't think I'd missed anything further you had on him. I dunno, that just seems like a pretty bad reason to town read someone. What people say BEFORE a game has no impact at all on their alignment, and trying to match their play with their talk before hand is a fools errand in my opinion.
All of the above comes with the reasonable proviso that my read on Yamato is a bit all over the place at the moment. He's either mafia-tryharding, or he's super obvious town and I'm being overly suspicious...
|
On September 06 2015 09:03 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 05:12 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 06 2015 05:07 Superbia wrote:
moosy/noobking/copcake/others. Can you guys make some sort of list post on where you stand? Like on everyone. Specifically I would also like people to give an opinion on the whole noobking/rayn conundrum. What do you think of their alignment? -.- i detailed a post where i lumped people into categories but here you go: town: raynpelikoneet, yamato77 town lean: Superbia, Alakaslam null: Breshke, boxerfred, GlowingBear, scott31337, Fidei86 people to look into: nocturnemage/coughinghydra, copcake ???: n00bKing Okay, so this post. WTF. I started off by running through all the reads one by one, but the thing that really sticks out here is that MD's previous five pages of filter are basically just a defence of n00b. MD goes as far as to say that he has the best read on n00b of everyone in the game, and that he is basically SURE that this is n00b's town meta. But now that there's a wagon picking up on n00b, he's trying to walk that back? Huh? MD you really need to explain this read for me, because at the moment it really stinks.
So I went back and re-read MD's filter to put this post in context. In summary, MD's read evolution on n00b is:
1. "I know him best, this is obviously his town meta"
2. ???
3. "Everyone else has him as scum, so I don't know"
4. "Okay so he's actually town"
This doesn't seem like a logical evolution to me - especially not for someone who claims to have better insight to n00b than everyone else. I would say that it was scum setting themselves up for a mislynch, except that it's so blatant that it's sort of difficult to believe that a scum MD is that stupid...
|
Bed for me now. I'm travelling to see my parents tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time to read and post when I'm on the train, but there will definitely be patches of inactivity. I'll try and read some more filters - I've been a bit focussed on n00b/MD/rayn/yamato, and I really need to get to grips with this whole Cake/MD fight, as well as looking at everyone else. I realise this is a bit hypocritical given that I just made like seven posts in less than an hour (although in my defence I'm making up for a day of lurking), but I really think town need to work a little harder at keeping down the filter-filler. 34-ish pages on d1 in a newbie game seems like a lot, and mafia are going to find it damned easy to hide in amongst all of the back and forth (case in point, I copped very little flack over the course of the day, and I posted once.)
/rant
|
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:
This is exactly the same as his town meta in voice-mafia, he tries to lead the discussion right from the front, ask questions, point things out and generally just be loud. I do think that a couple of his pushes have been a little questionable - the whole Breshke "yamato/rayn magic" thing was blown waaaaay out of proportion, and I think people were right to point this out. But, yeah, that's what I would have expected from town rayn.
rayn didn't blow the Breshke "magic" thing out of proportion any worse than he blew the GB "Vig claim" thing out of proportion. Both of them waste time and create distraction.
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:I hate n00b's style of posting, because there's really no reason to be so rude.
That was done for a reason.
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:
I'm sitting here reading this post, and I just keep asking myself "why does a town n00b make this post?". The only reason to call people's posts bad, without following with a read on the poster, is if you're trying to stop momentum on a wagon you think is wrong. Otherwise, you're just soft-scumming the poster.
NO. Players would (and should) call someone's posts bad, if they are bad. Simple as that. I don't have to scumread rayn to say that GB was right about his "points" being bullshit. They were bullshit, and they should be labeled as bullshit, so that no one else will make the mistake of thinking they might be reasonable, and/or putting any stock in them. I've mentioned multiple players as Townreads of mine in this game. Do not think for a second that it will keep me from pointing out flaws in their logic. And if they make posts as bad as rayn's were, I'll tell them their posts are bad, and why they are bad, just as I did with rayn.
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote: I would say probably half of n00b's filter up to now is his fight with rayn. And through all of that, he hasn't actually formed a read on him yet? How does that even make sense?
Who said I haven't formed a read on him yet? You can't see inside my head, and it is important that not everyone be able to see inside my head, since there are 3 players in the game that I don't want to know what I'm thinking.
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:
Yamato's thread is one I think is worth parsing a little more. He again seems to have been swept up in the fight, and is taking lots of swings at n00b. I've spent a fair amount of time talking to Yamato on TS, and I would say off the bat that his posts sound like him. But at the same time, he's a strong player and his absolute focus on n00b this early seems a little off. I'm also not sure that his post #598 makes a ton of sense. Rayn's read on Yamato is flimsy, at best. Even rayn would surely have to admit that trying to discern someone's alignment from how excited they are in their first post is pretty difficult. For two people who only know each other over the internet, it would be basically impossible. So why is yamato so keen to emphasise that he and rayn are hard town-reading each other?
Mmhmm. It was interesting that rayn basically refuses to scumhunt (saying he thinks we "have our lynch" for Day 1 and so forth), so that if he's Town, he's just leaving the rest of the Townies high & dry to fend for themselves, because he can't be bothered to do anything. But then he continues to hang around and play peanut gallery. If the plan is to "vote against Town and bail" then he's screwing it up.
yamato, meanwhile, does it right. He drops his vote on me, saddles me with some busy work to do (demanding to know which posts of GB I have been agreeing with, and further, insisting that I provide specific context for additional evidence...even though he doesn't seem to think his own statements need to be held to such standards, so he can be as vague and non-descript as he likes) and gets the hell out of the thread.
|
On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:It seems to me like the most important event today so far is the shit-fight between rayn and n00b. Rayn looks pretty obviously town to me. This is exactly the same as his town meta in voice-mafia, he tries to lead the discussion right from the front, ask questions, point things out and generally just be loud. I do think that a couple of his pushes have been a little questionable - the whole Breshke "yamato/rayn magic" thing was blown waaaaay out of proportion, and I think people were right to point this out. But, yeah, that's what I would have expected from town rayn. I hate n00b's style of posting, because there's really no reason to be so rude. I get it, you think that you're better than us all. That's fine, you might well be. But you can't honestly be surprised to find people don't like arrogant, superior people. And you're doing both in spades. If you're town, you're just digging your own grave at the moment. The post I most disliked from n00bking was #801. I think it's worth me quoting it in full: Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 07:47 n00bKing wrote:On September 06 2015 07:24 NocturneMage wrote:
Reading n00bking right now. Not liking what I see so far. I know he ranted about skill level of the site in the newbie I played and the one before that so I am ignoring that. But 278, 311 and 329, those posts I really don't like. 329, he's pushing rayn on semantics, doesn't have to be a case, all that matters is that he's calling rayn's points bullshit. The importance of the distinction between calling rayn's points bullshit and making a case for why he should be lynched cannot be overstated. You're right, "all that matters" is that rayn's points were being called bullshit (and they were bullshit). rayn mislabeled it as being something else, so I corrected him. Just as I corrected him when he tried to pretend I had said at some point that he is Scum. I'm sitting here reading this post, and I just keep asking myself "why does a town n00b make this post?". The only reason to call people's posts bad, without following with a read on the poster, is if you're trying to stop momentum on a wagon you think is wrong. Otherwise, you're just soft-scumming the poster. I would say probably half of n00b's filter up to now is his fight with rayn. And through all of that, he hasn't actually formed a read on him yet? How does that even make sense? If n00b is town, I don't get why he essentially causes the entirety of d1 to be about his fight with rayn, someone he doesn't even seem to have a scum read on ??? n00b is a scum-read for now. That said, there are a ton of other interesting things about this fight that are worth pondering. Yamato's thread is one I think is worth parsing a little more. He again seems to have been swept up in the fight, and is taking lots of swings at n00b. I've spent a fair amount of time talking to Yamato on TS, and I would say off the bat that his posts sound like him. But at the same time, he's a strong player and his absolute focus on n00b this early seems a little off. I'm also not sure that his post #598 makes a ton of sense. Rayn's read on Yamato is flimsy, at best. Even rayn would surely have to admit that trying to discern someone's alignment from how excited they are in their first post is pretty difficult. For two people who only know each other over the internet, it would be basically impossible. So why is yamato so keen to emphasise that he and rayn are hard town-reading each other? I think I will read Moosy and GB's filters, then head to bed. Any questions, fire away in the meantime.
One thing I find interesting if you are numbering posts like NM did and I've never seen that before.
Who do you want tob lynch today?
|
|
|
On September 06 2015 09:12 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 09:03 Fidei86 wrote:On September 06 2015 05:12 MoosyDoosy wrote:On September 06 2015 05:07 Superbia wrote:
moosy/noobking/copcake/others. Can you guys make some sort of list post on where you stand? Like on everyone. Specifically I would also like people to give an opinion on the whole noobking/rayn conundrum. What do you think of their alignment? -.- i detailed a post where i lumped people into categories but here you go: town: raynpelikoneet, yamato77 town lean: Superbia, Alakaslam null: Breshke, boxerfred, GlowingBear, scott31337, Fidei86 people to look into: nocturnemage/coughinghydra, copcake ???: n00bKing Okay, so this post. WTF. I started off by running through all the reads one by one, but the thing that really sticks out here is that MD's previous five pages of filter are basically just a defence of n00b. MD goes as far as to say that he has the best read on n00b of everyone in the game, and that he is basically SURE that this is n00b's town meta. But now that there's a wagon picking up on n00b, he's trying to walk that back? Huh? MD you really need to explain this read for me, because at the moment it really stinks. So I went back and re-read MD's filter to put this post in context. In summary, MD's read evolution on n00b is: 1. "I know him best, this is obviously his town meta" 2. ??? 3. "Everyone else has him as scum, so I don't know" 4. "Okay so he's actually town" This doesn't seem like a logical evolution to me - especially not for someone who claims to have better insight to n00b than everyone else. I would say that it was scum setting themselves up for a mislynch, except that it's so blatant that it's sort of difficult to believe that a scum MD is that stupid...
Look at the context.
1. "I know him best, this is his town meta so far"
2. Everyone else calls him scum.
3. "Okay, I'll wait, I'm not sure" "???"
4. n00bKing posts some more and shares reads
5. "Yep, he's def town"
|
On September 06 2015 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:nvm here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2015 07:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The reason i am reading yamato town is because i talked with him on TS last night and he has rolled mafia for like 5 games in a row or something and i told him "hey let's wreck mafia if we are both town, it would be nice to play with you when you are actually town and play".
He basically promised to play in his first post, because he seems interested in the game and happy. If it's a fake post then i will 100% figure it out based on his play AFTERWARDS, but as per now there is zero reason to think yamato is mafia.
. And nothing has made me think otherwise after i made the post.
Really?
You indicated that if he doesn't follow through on being interested in the game and making an actual effort to play, then it'll mean he's Mafia. How is that not EXACTLY what's happened?
|
On September 06 2015 09:17 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2015 08:47 Fidei86 wrote:It seems to me like the most important event today so far is the shit-fight between rayn and n00b. Rayn looks pretty obviously town to me. This is exactly the same as his town meta in voice-mafia, he tries to lead the discussion right from the front, ask questions, point things out and generally just be loud. I do think that a couple of his pushes have been a little questionable - the whole Breshke "yamato/rayn magic" thing was blown waaaaay out of proportion, and I think people were right to point this out. But, yeah, that's what I would have expected from town rayn. I hate n00b's style of posting, because there's really no reason to be so rude. I get it, you think that you're better than us all. That's fine, you might well be. But you can't honestly be surprised to find people don't like arrogant, superior people. And you're doing both in spades. If you're town, you're just digging your own grave at the moment. The post I most disliked from n00bking was #801. I think it's worth me quoting it in full: On September 06 2015 07:47 n00bKing wrote:On September 06 2015 07:24 NocturneMage wrote:
Reading n00bking right now. Not liking what I see so far. I know he ranted about skill level of the site in the newbie I played and the one before that so I am ignoring that. But 278, 311 and 329, those posts I really don't like. 329, he's pushing rayn on semantics, doesn't have to be a case, all that matters is that he's calling rayn's points bullshit. The importance of the distinction between calling rayn's points bullshit and making a case for why he should be lynched cannot be overstated. You're right, "all that matters" is that rayn's points were being called bullshit (and they were bullshit). rayn mislabeled it as being something else, so I corrected him. Just as I corrected him when he tried to pretend I had said at some point that he is Scum. I'm sitting here reading this post, and I just keep asking myself "why does a town n00b make this post?". The only reason to call people's posts bad, without following with a read on the poster, is if you're trying to stop momentum on a wagon you think is wrong. Otherwise, you're just soft-scumming the poster. I would say probably half of n00b's filter up to now is his fight with rayn. And through all of that, he hasn't actually formed a read on him yet? How does that even make sense? If n00b is town, I don't get why he essentially causes the entirety of d1 to be about his fight with rayn, someone he doesn't even seem to have a scum read on ??? n00b is a scum-read for now. That said, there are a ton of other interesting things about this fight that are worth pondering. Yamato's thread is one I think is worth parsing a little more. He again seems to have been swept up in the fight, and is taking lots of swings at n00b. I've spent a fair amount of time talking to Yamato on TS, and I would say off the bat that his posts sound like him. But at the same time, he's a strong player and his absolute focus on n00b this early seems a little off. I'm also not sure that his post #598 makes a ton of sense. Rayn's read on Yamato is flimsy, at best. Even rayn would surely have to admit that trying to discern someone's alignment from how excited they are in their first post is pretty difficult. For two people who only know each other over the internet, it would be basically impossible. So why is yamato so keen to emphasise that he and rayn are hard town-reading each other? I think I will read Moosy and GB's filters, then head to bed. Any questions, fire away in the meantime. One thing I find interesting if you are numbering posts like NM did and I've never seen that before. Who do you want tob lynch today?
Glad that I'm not the only one that picked that up.
|
Meh, links are better as you want to make things easy for people. But #'s are an okay fill-in, I've found (I used NM's numbering earlier on n00b for example). I did it a fair bit in the Personality Mafia game that just finished. But not really sure what you're getting at here - really hope the most interesting thing about my post wasn't my referencing style? Do you have any thoughts on what I actually said?
Who do I want to lynch? I dunno. Recognise that that's kind of suboptimal from town, but I'm just not sure. I really need more time to go back through filters. If the deadline was in two minutes I'd vote for boxerfred (who seems to be the most egregious lurker), but I've got time to hopefully get a bit further tomorrow.
|
@MD below is a link to a post I made in Personality Mafia where I used post number referencing (and I was town). But want to emphasise that that's actually the worst reason to read someone one way or another that I've ever heard. I made a bunch of points, many of which involve you. Maybe respond to them, rather than dealing with this ephemera?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=30#595
|
On September 06 2015 09:30 Fidei86 wrote:@MD below is a link to a post I made in Personality Mafia where I used post number referencing (and I was town). But want to emphasise that that's actually the worst reason to read someone one way or another that I've ever heard. I made a bunch of points, many of which involve you. Maybe respond to them, rather than dealing with this ephemera? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=30#595
It was just a slight pick-up which I thought was NAI. And I did respond if you'd care to scroll up.
|
Then why comment on it?
And yes, see you did respond. Skimmed up after refreshing and missed it was you as the numbering looked the same as mine. I'm unconvinced that that is a natural read progression, especially because it was so out of kilter with your posts before. That said, erratic play is probably more town indicative than Mafia indicative, so I'll treat this as a wash for now.
|
On September 06 2015 09:35 Fidei86 wrote:
Then why comment on it?
And yes, see you did respond. Skimmed up after refreshing and missed it was you as the numbering looked the same as mine. I'm unconvinced that that is a natural read progression, especially because it was so out of kilter with your posts before. That said, erratic play is probably more town indicative than Mafia indicative, so I'll treat this as a wash for now.
ok. if u think having a read confirmed after seeing more posts from that person is "erratic" then i worry for ur reads.
|
I'm pages behind and I don't feel like reading them.
Anybody there?
|
|
|
Hi pupil.
Who do we lynch today?
|
I'm not sure. I do know probably not slam. His deciding to back of feels kinda townie and I also realise that my scum read went from sheeting rayn then to something that didn't make sense.
I'm probably okay with lynching noobking. For how much he has been in the thread I don't actually remember him pushing much of anything
I kinda wanna lynch moosey for his defence of noobking but it's ver reminiscent of the last game I played with him like the general behaviour so it then makes me think he is town. There was also some post that I don't remember that I really liked
I could also lynch boxer cos why not.
So answer to your question is noobking/boxer
I obviously need to do more work though but have family stuff soon so can't commit to rereading stuff just yet.
Who are you lynching today GB?
|
Meh I don't know. Rayn's productivity fell and although I just skimmed the thread he doesn't seem to be pushing noobking' lynch as hard as I would expect from him. On the other hand noobking votes Rayn but never really clarifies his read on him, with that very contrived post where he basically admits Rayn could be coming from town perspective. Why the vote, then?
I'm in this world where I think one of them is mafia. Regardless, I think we have good information on both and they can be dealt later.
In the other hand, we have boxer, fidei and scott. I think Fidei's play is very forgettable. He did came back later but in a skin his post looked like fluff. I don't like it.
So basically I would like to lynch fidei/Scott, maybe boxer.
|
And yeah, I know I'm voting noobking. I'm still evaluating stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
