Newbie Student Mafia XIV: Firefly - Page 2

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 00:17 GMT

#843

Bed for me now. I'm travelling to see my parents tomorrow, so I will have plenty of time to read and post when I'm on the train, but there will definitely be patches of inactivity. I'll try and read some more filters - I've been a bit focussed on n00b/MD/rayn/yamato, and I really need to get to grips with this whole Cake/MD fight, as well as looking at everyone else. I realise this is a bit hypocritical given that I just made like seven posts in less than an hour (although in my defence I'm making up for a day of lurking), but I really think town need to work a little harder at keeping down the filter-filler. 34-ish pages on d1 in a newbie game seems like a lot, and mafia are going to find it damned easy to hide in amongst all of the back and forth (case in point, I copped very little flack over the course of the day, and I posted once.)

/rant

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 00:26 GMT

#850

Meh, links are better as you want to make things easy for people. But #'s are an okay fill-in, I've found (I used NM's numbering earlier on n00b for example). I did it a fair bit in the Personality Mafia game that just finished. But not really sure what you're getting at here - really hope the most interesting thing about my post wasn't my referencing style? Do you have any thoughts on what I actually said?

Who do I want to lynch? I dunno. Recognise that that's kind of suboptimal from town, but I'm just not sure. I really need more time to go back through filters. If the deadline was in two minutes I'd vote for boxerfred (who seems to be the most egregious lurker), but I've got time to hopefully get a bit further tomorrow.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 00:30 GMT

#851

@MD below is a link to a post I made in Personality Mafia where I used post number referencing (and I was town). But want to emphasise that that's actually the worst reason to read someone one way or another that I've ever heard. I made a bunch of points, many of which involve you. Maybe respond to them, rather than dealing with this ephemera?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491840-the-new-personality-mafia?page=30#595

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 00:35 GMT

#853

Then why comment on it?

And yes, see you did respond. Skimmed up after refreshing and missed it was you as the numbering looked the same as mine. I'm unconvinced that that is a natural read progression, especially because it was so out of kilter with your posts before. That said, erratic play is probably more town indicative than Mafia indicative, so I'll treat this as a wash for now.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 09:53 GMT

#894

On September 06 2015 10:52 GlowingBear wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think there is the possibility of him being Mafia. Some of his replies are really off, his tone is over the top, the dismissal of some questions and that unexplained vote on Rayn while not scum reading him are very fair indicatives.

GB I have thought about this overnight and I don't know if it makes sense for scum n00b to post in the way that he has. Like, the points he makes are *okay* and a lot of them against Rayn I actually made myself. People seem to be scumming him more for his tone, and I agree he has been very obnoxious. But isn't that more likely to come from town than Mafia? Why does Mafia come in and generally make as many enemies as possible?

I'm also acutely aware that it's a newbie town error just to lynch the most outspoken player d1.

As to GB, I read his filter and nothing really jumped out at me. I agree with Rayn that his thread entry was highly counter-productive, and I do not agree with his outlook on blue roles in general. But anyone who was in the "why are scum winning" thread won't need me to rehash the whole GB fake cop check thing. TL:DR is that town GB makes fake blue claims which do reveal information but which also get him lynched. The whole thing is NAI for now.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 10:48 GMT

#895

Just read a bunch of filters. I think cake is probably town. I think she's a little tunnelled on Moosy, but her posts read like a cascade of consciousness which is something that happens naturally as town but is very difficult to replicate as scum, especially in a second language. I'm interested why she thought I was more scummy than BF based on our thread entry, but that's just because I'm self-centred.

Meh. I need to reflect on this game a little because right now I have a bunch of people I don't want to lynch and not many I do. Usually I'd default to policy lynch lurkers here, but I want to get a handle on the slam/Bresh/Yamato axis first. All three are experienced players, all three seem to have been playing guardedly so far, and my intuition is that at least one of them is Mafia.

Anyone else around?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 11:02 GMT

#896

Sooooooooo, it turns out my recollection on Slam was wrong. He hasn't been "guarded", at least not totally. But here's my issue with him- he has racked up 5 pages of game filter and I think that the grand sum of it is a couple of town reads and tons and tons of filler. Someone else may know how meta better than I do, but honestly his play so far looks super scummy. He has been almost entirely reactive (apart from his largely unexplained and aborted) push on Breshke. Other than that, he has tried to comment on most of the disputes we've had so far but not actually push anything anywhere or even try and give detailed reasoning. That pushes him to scum-lean.

Has anyone here played with him before?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 14:08 GMT

#899

This might not make sense, but the way I tend to post as town is very much just see-say. I think something and I post it (provided it's helpful and not spam). Cake read to me the same way. On the other hand, reading you and Yamato I got the feeling that you were thinking carefully about your posts and that there were things you weren't saying. I definitely do not think that this is a scum tell by itself - in fact it's probably the better style of play because you post less and people can focus more on your strong points. But it also does make it slightly harder for people to town-tone read you. And it's a good way for scum to play.

Does that make sense?

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 15:26 GMT

#908

I was town with Scott in Holy Guardians, and he actually posted quite a lot in that game. I scum read him all game, fwiw. However, in recent games he has basically lurked and/or had fits of activity followed by long periods of nothing.

Just finished at my parents', so back online.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 15:35 GMT

#910

I just re-read 817 NM, what were your thoughts on it? I don't think that "that's just how I play" is ever a good excuse for scummy play. But then again, like I said before, I don't see any particular reason to scum read her for her play. I admit that I might be biased because I've played voice Mafia with cake and she seemed very nice. But in those games she was always town and she got scum read a lot. Her responses in this game have reminded me a lot of how she played then too.

So, yeah, I won't vote to lynch her today. I'm going to go back to Slam's filter again. You said he plays with a lot of filler always - I need to try and find some of his substantive posts to really wrestle with.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 15:48 GMT

#913

That actually makes a ton of sense. I do think I'm right on Cake, but your points read cogently and honestly, so I'm inclined to town read you.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 16:10 GMT

#915

So BF, hearing his name get mentioned as a possible policy lynch, enters the thread and basically gets on board with the n00b and the Cake wagons, then calls Rayn town for meta reasons.

His reasoning against n00b is not convincing. Whatever else you think of n00b (and I've said plenty), he hasn't shied away from dealing with specific issues. I've already said at length that I think there are issues with n00b's play, but I just think his overall play style makes more sense from a town perspective.

So we've got two wagons that I think are probably town, and BF is happy with both? I think we'd be better off lynching BF.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 16:40 GMT

#921

@n00bking

What the hell are you talking about? Information on a BF lynch? The dude has made like two posts, and the only people who have said anything are Scott and Cake. This is just such a bad argument, I don't even know where to begin. I was pretty sure you're town, but you keep digging yourself deeper and it's getting harder and harder to keep town reading you.

All that sort of contradicts with my view that we should lynch BF. Policy and posting are two totally valid reasons to lynch him imo. "Information" just isn't.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 16:46 GMT

#922

On September 07 2015 01:38 boxerfred wrote:

Show nested quote +

You do realize I've read until 17 only and didn't vote, right? I answered a question that was raised towards me. Tryhard?

I always try hard.

I don't buy your explanation though. n00b has been playing the same the whole way through. I really have issues with it, but whatever else it is it really isn't lacking specificity.

I think you're Mafia. I think you're hedging on the two lynch wagons so you can jump on whichever later and look good in the process. I think town finds the time over the last day and a half to actually read the thread (page 17 is what, 7 pages of game filter?).

I need to come out of posting view now to see which questions you're talking about, because if they're after p17 then that only makes me more skeptical.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 16:51 GMT

#923

Okay, so it looks like the question was raised a while back. So maybe I pushed that too far. Hmm. Moosy wasn't following up on that question at all, so scum BF could have easily ignored it. That said, his answer is so lacklustre, it could easily be scummy as well.

I definitely think you're a better vote than Cop or n00b though.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 17:31 GMT

#928

On September 07 2015 02:06 boxerfred wrote:

Show nested quote +

Erm also I want to clarify: I'm not happy with a Cake lynch. How do you come to this? I clearly say that I don't give a scum lean!

Yeah, but your arguments on her all suggested that you thought her play was scummy. That's another thing that bothered me, it's like you lost four reasons why her filter is bad, then say "maybe not a scum lean". That's about as weak and unhelpful as a read can be, and it also doesn't fit with what you said about her before.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 17:43 GMT

#933

Okay, sorry, I'm getting a bit rude here. Apologise.

It's trite that associative stuff d1 is very meh. What, so if BF flips Mafia cake is Mafia for saying I was scummier than BF before we both started? Or is Scott Mafia for scum reading him?

I just think this argument is bad. I think BF is scummy based on his play so far. But if you're going to vote him for information, that makes me want to rethink.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 17:44 GMT

#936

*apologies

:-)

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 17:55 GMT

#938

Guys is GlowingBear usually this disinterested as town? I've been town with him once, and he was literally in the middle of every single shit-fight there was. This time, he doesn't really seem to care. It's weird.

Fidei86

United Kingdom2116 Posts

September 06 2015 18:15 GMT

#940

You're right, of course. Except that I'm not 100% sold on the BF lynch, and I really don't agree with your reasons for pushing him. So that makes me more suspicious of you, and less suspicious of him. It's giving me pause, is what I'm trying to say.

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