TL Mafia LXXII: Gaiden 2

On August 26 2015 11:19 WaveofShadow wrote:
How many emotes is that?
uscum?

On August 26 2015 22:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Kelsier do you have any reads other than just moosy/bf

On August 26 2015 22:25 marvellosity wrote:

it's not awful, it's one that Palmar already gave and I'm sure various people already thought.

On August 26 2015 22:26 marvellosity wrote:

I'm kinda speechless.

1) someone shares a read = town ?!
2) you managed to fail to read the thread to find his reasons despite the fact i spent several posts quesitoning him on it

i... uh. whatever.

On August 26 2015 22:32 marvellosity wrote:

excellent, i can stop pursuing you now

On August 26 2015 22:42 KelsierSC wrote:


The question wasn't the best question ever but I don't think the case on him is that good

at the moment it comes down to that q and him not being "jatty"

On August 26 2015 22:44 KelsierSC wrote:


what about you, you still want to lynch jat?

On August 26 2015 22:45 rsoultin wrote:


truffle's probably town with the stipulation that he didn't make me laugh :/

On August 26 2015 22:47 KelsierSC wrote:


well you said



that indicates you wanted to lynch him

On August 26 2015 22:50 KelsierSC wrote:


well it was a resounding success

are you really looking at marv here?

On August 26 2015 22:52 marvellosity wrote:

yeah fuck you moosy.

On August 26 2015 22:53 KelsierSC wrote:


well i mean...what exactly is your issue here because marv said JAT was n/a and it was palmar and rsol who had the case/read

On August 26 2015 22:53 rsoultin wrote:


several games (2-3 that i'm aware of?) palmar has caught scum!marv off of about that many posts and lynched him d1. jat is not unaware of this (he was in at least one of those games)

so it's not a ridiculous thing for truffle to say

it is however a ridiculous thing for jat to latch onto, and most especially a ridiculous thing to be the only thing jat latches onto

On August 26 2015 23:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


So your definition of an "actual case" is that JAT latched onto a particular statement that Trfel gave and it was the only thing he did. I agree that it's odd, and I'd probably lynch JAT if it was the only thing he did in an entire 48-hour period.

However, you seem to be just looking for reasons to find JAT scummy.

On August 26 2015 23:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


Specifically why does this annoy you?

On August 26 2015 23:05 rsoultin wrote:


just as an fyi

metareads are more common d1 for players who have been playing awhile because there's not much to go off yet, so it's something you'll have to get used to lol ><

On August 26 2015 23:08 Palmar wrote:


BRO

JAT is mafia because he's trying to build a case out of something that is irrelevant.

JAT is mafia because his opening was awkward and sad

JAT is mafia because he tried to dismiss me instead of argue me.

On August 26 2015 23:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


This makes absolutely no sense. Why do you need wave specifically?

On August 26 2015 23:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


That's what I get for reevaluating

On August 26 2015 23:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


So you think wave is town right now? I'm operating under the assumption that if you need someone's thoughts on a subject that you would believe he is town, else he would lead you astray.

On August 26 2015 23:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
marv out of curiosity what WERE those two posts that palmar got you off of in some game? I assume they were more substantive than this game. Trfel may have just been joking, too.

On August 26 2015 23:35 KelsierSC wrote:


it's a good job that you hate meta reads then

On August 26 2015 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
well you probably shouldn't criticise me for making a meta observation when i wasn't trying to lynch him for it either, hmmm?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

On August 26 2015 23:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Kels is now town

On August 26 2015 23:41 marvellosity wrote:

for the 8th time, i never did that + i explained over multiple posts the issue i had with CC THIS GAME

tldr don't be bad, it makes marv sad

On August 26 2015 23:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Moosy you never substantiated on your wave!town read

On August 26 2015 23:44 marvellosity wrote:

actually the timeline went like this.

1. marv said a meta thing i didn't like
2. oops i confused palmar and marv
3. oh yeah, here is the thing that i didn't like from marv

tldr - remember your own posts.

On August 26 2015 23:48 Palmar wrote:

I agree

FILTERS OR RIOT

On August 26 2015 23:49 marvellosity wrote:

then we return back to my original point

YOU HAD NO REASON TO DISLIKE THE METAREAD BECAUSE I WAS NOT TRYING TO GET ANYONE TO LYNCH CC OFF IT

IN FACT IT WAS MERELY AN ADDENDUM TO THE POSTS I MADE REGARDING CC WITH STUFF THAT HAPPENED THIS GAME

according to your own philosophy on metareads, you should have had ZERO issue with what i posted about CC.

On August 26 2015 23:51 KelsierSC wrote:


mhmm what do you mean by call out?

the emoticon thing is a joke btw

On August 26 2015 23:57 KelsierSC wrote:


mhmm yes they did interact.

why is that towny?

On August 27 2015 00:01 KelsierSC wrote:


ok this might be hard but pretend wave isn't in the game...

can you give like a coherent list of your thoughts on JAT/trefl/palmar/marv/rsol

On August 27 2015 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
apart from anything else, there's a decent pointer for Moosy being town because he went

"i want to sheep wave's vote [i.e. lynch marv]"

few posts later

"marv is probably town, but super annoying"

which meant the first post comes across as a townie spite reaction at me pissing all over his ass

On August 27 2015 00:13 VisceraEyes wrote:

You're town for your interactions with Palmar + general sexiness. Your visible fence-sitting is townie when compared with Moosy's pushing of an alternative wagon/arguing with marv smokescreen.

On August 27 2015 00:41 VisceraEyes wrote:
I didn't like Wave's entrance, worst in the thread besides marv's. Then he disappeared which I find to be extremely out of character for Wave. I'm interested to hear why you think I'm focusing around him so much though, I've spent WAY more posts trying to oppose a JAT lynch and appealing to marv and Palmar.

On August 27 2015 00:47 KelsierSC wrote:


werent you town reading wave?

On August 27 2015 00:58 KelsierSC wrote:


if that counts as hard then i don't know why my girlfriend complains so much

On August 27 2015 01:00 Vivax wrote:




What marv said until the last post:





Speaking about additional comments with no basis, Trfel makes it into the candidates for the D1 lynch.

On August 27 2015 01:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
I am interested in Moosy's thoughts now that I have arrived.

On August 27 2015 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't really have much to say about that specifically.
Palmar and marv have a super special bromance together that I can't explain accurately in any real detail. The way it seems to me is that Palmar tosses out reads super early just 'cause, some of which may be accurate and some of which might not be but he sticks with them and forces them if necessary, and re-evaluates in secret. In the scumgame where he caught me even though he forced his read on me all game he was actually constantly re-evaluating based on what was going on in game as was evidenced by his posting.

For a read on marv if I had to guess it's easier to assume he's town (even based on very little/nothing) and take it back later on if he just so happens to be wrong, but all of the posting they have done has in all likelihood shown that he is right.

As for how this relates to Trfel/rsoul.....dunno.

On August 27 2015 01:38 rsoultin wrote:
Message to a non-jatty jat:

When do you plan on showing up to this game?

-your not-so-friendly neighborhood raoul

On August 27 2015 01:40 justanothertownie wrote:

I already did and if you think my play isn't jatty then you have no idea what jatty is. I don't know why you would think that you can toneread me anyways. You clearly aren't able to do so if you are town.

On August 27 2015 01:43 KelsierSC wrote:


Trfel didn't ask the question dude

wtf is going on

On August 27 2015 01:58 Palmar wrote:

To be perfectly honest, the townread on marv is in large based on his "this is delightful" post, because I was also enjoying that conversation a lot.

On August 27 2015 02:03 justanothertownie wrote:

No, it really doesn't. Because Trfel did not know this.

On August 27 2015 02:08 KelsierSC wrote:


ugh

On August 27 2015 02:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like MAYBE I can see Moosy giving lynch wagon credit to rsoul.
Maybe.
But me?

And since I've come back Moosy has asked me a few random questions that just seem really disjointed---like i don't get the feeling of why he needed me to come back in the first place so urgently.

On August 27 2015 02:16 WaveofShadow wrote:

That's not the point.
The fact that you are entirely ignoring Palmar's presence in the game is the point, especially since I have openly admitting that the only reason I am voting JAT in the first place is BECAUSE of him.

This kinda goes beyond who you have experience with and not imo. It's just weird. Like you're forcibly playing up your interactions with those who you know and reeks of agenda.

On August 27 2015 02:19 KelsierSC wrote:


like..I don't get it what made you go from null to mafia on JAT

when you're reason for null was waiting to see the defence, what changed your mind?

On August 27 2015 02:56 rsoultin wrote:
i dunnae people seem to be scumreading moosy for things that i'd expect new players to get scumread for as town :/ i'm really not sold on that

On August 27 2015 03:37 WaveofShadow wrote:

You REALLY think moosy needs us this badly as to ask that question?

On August 27 2015 10:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Moosy I'm here entertain me

On August 27 2015 10:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


I said somewhere that JAT was town, but I didn't really have a reason for it. I thought that Palmar's argument was bad, and figured that JAT was just the victim of Palmar's rage. He was probably just town being attacked. I did think, though, the way he stood his ground against Palmar was townie. However, somewhere along the line I realized that no matter JAT's alignment he can't just back down. I still don't think that Palmar's case has any weight, and this meta stuff i don't care about. I told JAT I'd lynch him if he didn't do anything productive, and that's true. He's complained about Palmar scumreading him but hasn't really done much (scumhunting) to earn himself a pass for today.

On August 27 2015 10:41 Trfel wrote:
Ok, fine, I take it back. I should probably discuss VisceraEyes.

On August 27 2015 10:52 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


It's evolved from probably just town to nullish into I-have-no-idea lol

On August 27 2015 10:55 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Why didn't you just read him as an angry townie and instead scum read JAT down to a null read?

-shrugs- if you think there's no real case on him then he should be a town in your eyes. If that's the case, I think you should try to work with him to calm him down and get him to be productive. Instead i saw you scum reading him for being accused of what's "no real case" and getting angry over it.

On August 27 2015 10:58 Trfel wrote:
Ok, I don't know for certain that Hopeless1der is coming back. But I don't care about if he gets replaced or modkilled? I'll deal with that if/when it happens.

What is your point?

On August 27 2015 11:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


I agree there was / is no real case on him, but JAT's reaction to the pressure is pretty horrible because he isn't doing anything productive. I figure if he were townie he'd shrug off the pressure and just give his reads. Right? I think mafia have a higher propensity to get angry about being scumread. I also wanted to see his reaction to me flipping on him. His reaction was thus:


It's part incorrect, part weird since he liked my posts about Wave. I also asked him nicely to be productive and rise from his ashes.

On August 27 2015 11:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Decondou and boxer are more scummy than Hopeless, if you want to talk about people that have a few posts. The info about hopeless is literally all OGI and irrelevant to this game imo

On August 27 2015 11:11 Trfel wrote:
Hopeless1der is more likely to be scum than the other two because of meta.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/491681-tropical-storm-mini-mafia

Here you go.

It's not irrelevant, it's very relevant, and very useful.

On August 27 2015 11:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


What exactly is his "tone" in his posts? I'm reading his tone as ambivalent, which seems null at best. The only post I saw sort of town was his "let me tunnel" post because it seemed excited, but that excitement was quickly extinguished by him not doing anything.

On August 27 2015 22:24 VisceraEyes wrote:

What do you think about my post about CC's case? Just remove anything that says anything about "looks too good to be town" and give me your opinion.

On August 28 2015 01:11 Hopeless1der wrote:
Oh god the spampocalypse. I was not prepared for this. I'm going to go full blazinghand and use his RNG methods while I read the thread and then yolo it.

RNG being this (post's ID)Mod13 (0=decon, 1=wave, 2=vivax etc)

On August 28 2015 01:14 Hopeless1der wrote:
24788433
->7
->7) Mr. Cheesecake (filter)

##Vote: Mr.Cheesecake

On August 28 2015 01:22 marvellosity wrote:

why

On August 28 2015 01:24 marvellosity wrote:
no, it's a shit answer.

explain why you said what you said

On August 28 2015 01:25 marvellosity wrote:
like specifically, what is it about their interactions or the interactions of others with them (and WHO in this case) that makes you feel town-town is "highly unlikely"

On August 28 2015 01:27 justanothertownie wrote:

That's not a reason to assume we can't both be town man.

On August 28 2015 04:34 WaveofShadow wrote:

It's funny 'cause I'm thinking you're right actually.
So much end of day lurky popup

On August 28 2015 06:12 rsoultin wrote:
MOOSY

don't make me beat you with a rolling pin

On August 28 2015 06:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hi I'm back, who we lynching?

On August 28 2015 06:32 Vivax wrote:


Dude why did you vote CC? It didn't seem like the shitty series of votes that came up when you got confronted with that.

It's like you did that only to make seem your vote on CC not serious.

On August 28 2015 06:33 justanothertownie wrote:

You aren't being helpful or funny.

On August 28 2015 06:35 KelsierSC wrote:
back

I don't know what the fuck moosy is doing, this goes beyond confused town.
That CC vote actually makes no sense

i'd be happy with a hopeless lynch, be happy lynching moosy aswell at this point

On August 28 2015 06:36 KelsierSC wrote:
we aren't lynching trefl ok like unless i've misread something horribly there is a good reason not to

On August 28 2015 06:37 justanothertownie wrote:

I made a list and it is still absolutely accurate. Maybe I do not want to lynch WoS as much anymore but I can lynch anyone between Trfel/deconduo/bf/Vivax/Hopeless and CC.

On August 28 2015 06:51 Trfel wrote:
Why do you think that Vivax, WaveofShadow, and MoosyDoosy are town?

On August 28 2015 06:55 Trfel wrote:
If he provided his reasons, it could help see if these are genuine reads or not? So I don't see what you are getting at?

Boxerfred has been more "useless" than Hopeless1der, but that doesn't make him more scummy.

On August 28 2015 06:53 Trfel wrote:
Lynch Hopeless1der. He is much more likely to be scum than boxerfred.

Boxerfred's filter makes sense from the busy/frustrated town perspective, even if it's annoying.

Hopeless1der isn't completely clueless. He was around a lot more in the mafia QT last game than he was posting in the thread. He signed up for a large game, he confirmed for the game in reasonable time. He said he would play. He didn't. His few posts this game have been unconvincing and basically what I would expect from mafia.

I am confident that Hopeless1der is mafia, I am not confident in boxerfred.

Is this an issue of associations with my alignment, as I pushed Hopeless1der first?

On August 28 2015 06:57 Trfel wrote:
I think that Hopeless1der's post is okay, I suppose.

Bleh.

Switch to deconduo or something?

On August 28 2015 07:11 marvellosity wrote:

that doesn't necessarily follow

On August 28 2015 04:57 deconduo wrote:
##Vote: Hopeless1der

I'm not quite sure how no one is actually voting for him right now.

On August 28 2015 06:33 deconduo wrote:
I'd be OK with consolidating on BF, though I still think hopeless is a better lynch. Trfel would be OK with me as well, but might be harder to get votes for.

On August 28 2015 22:42 justanothertownie wrote:

I find it funny that you feel the need to try and fuel this argument any more. Just ignore it and move on.

On August 28 2015 22:46 justanothertownie wrote:

So what? Is this in any way relevant to anyones alignment? No? then shut up and talk about something else.

On August 28 2015 22:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
Good morning! rsoul and Moosy saying JAT hasn't been productive is just patently false - he literally went through and filtered everyone yesterday (excepting people like Palmar/Marv for long filters and rsoul for fear of bias) and gave THE ENTIRETY of his thoughts on them. rsoultin I can see just being mad and argumentative. But wtf is Moosy doing? He's adding fuel to an argument that from the looks of it COULD be dying, to what end? What's the goal? Is there ANY townie motivation for doing so?

On August 28 2015 23:02 VisceraEyes wrote:

Okay Moosy.

On August 28 2015 23:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
What's the goal Moosy? What's your endgame in trying to keep JAT and rsoultin at each others' throats?

On August 28 2015 23:08 VisceraEyes wrote:

YOU'RE CERTAINLY GETTING WARMER MATE!!

On August 28 2015 23:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
What I'm looking for is the truth - why are you trying to keep rsoultin and JAT fighting?

On August 29 2015 02:26 Trfel wrote:
Ok, this sounds good. How about you go do the work and try to prove it, and I'll evaluate once you finish?

On August 29 2015 02:28 Trfel wrote:
Do you disagree with any of my townreads in my post with way too many townreads?

On August 29 2015 02:30 WaveofShadow wrote:

Ah yes this is true.
Moosy wtf were you doing at EoD

On August 29 2015 02:35 rsoultin wrote:
i'd care but cc is prob mafia and if he isn't i'm prob not around that long anyway so

lynch away

-rolls around the thread-

On August 29 2015 02:36 rsoultin wrote:


i'd tell you to read my filter before making tonereads based on nothing but given no one reads my filters i'll just settle on

duh

On August 29 2015 02:41 rsoultin wrote:
okay i should feel bad about this but i kinda just went fuck this halfway through skimming that post, cc

tldr it please so i can continue being lazy?

On August 29 2015 02:52 rsoultin wrote:


he tunneled ls so it's not outside his wheelhouse? he's logic-based -shrugs-

On August 29 2015 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:


I can't figure out Palmar. I can't tell if he's just being bad town or mafia. It's quite that simple. "This late in the game?" It's night 1. Vivax, this is a lame post.

On August 29 2015 06:53 marvellosity wrote:
good reads post rsoul, i liked it

On August 29 2015 07:09 Trfel wrote:
Why do you say this means that justanothertownie isn't mafia?

On August 29 2015 07:18 marvellosity wrote:

1. i am stoned
2. i will be stoned most of tomorrow and then out all through the weekend
3. so it seemed like an ok idea given my own situation

On August 29 2015 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
i'm one-shot moosy, i don't get another check

On August 29 2015 07:22 marvellosity wrote:
decon was a perfect check

you're presuming some hopeless lynch that simply isn't predetermined

On August 29 2015 07:23 justanothertownie wrote:

Deconduo is a good check because he is NOT the obvious check -> frame target and still a very viable lynch and unlikely to become towny later. And no, his alignment is in no way tied to hopeless.

On August 29 2015 07:37 Trfel wrote:
Why does this make you think that I am mafia?

On August 29 2015 07:40 Trfel wrote:
There actually was a time where she was wrong and I was her strongest scumread. We were both town.

And MoosyDoosy, I can make a really amazing case on deconduo if you want. The only problem is that marvellosity kind of ruined it.

On August 30 2015 04:03 Hopeless1der wrote:

I skipped ve and Jat too. I think that is everyone. You're town moosy, jats town ish, ve is null.

On August 30 2015 04:07 Hopeless1der wrote:

Is that "too" in agreement with someone or in addition to wanting to lynch CC?

On August 30 2015 04:16 Hopeless1der wrote:

"Are you scum or town?
->"Yes."
.....
So who are you agreeing with moosy? Why do you agree and would you rather lynch me or CC? Why one over the other?

On August 30 2015 04:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay so if marv's claim is true (I have no reason to doubt it unless there's some sort of other claim, and even then...) then that just basically makes the game a little easier FMP. I was doubting decon late yesterday, especially coming in and calling me town super late yesterday for making posts he agreed with without really saying which ones. With him clear I'm looking at lynching outside of:

VE
marv...\
decon./
JAT
Moosy

I promised I'd make an effort to reevaluate Palmar and Trfel, so I'm going to add them to the no-lynch list today as well as I accommodate that. Leaving us lynching into this pool (again, from my perspective):

Vivax
KelsierSC
Mr. Cheesecake
Hopeless1der

In spite of me reevaluating Palmar/Trfel, Vivax seems to have been having many of the same thoughts as me over the course of the game, or at the very least coming to some of the same conclusions, so I'll state up front that I want to lynch him the least.

Cheesecake is an anomoly. I really badly want to townread Cheesecake, but my guts tell me that's a bad thing. Well, my guts, my personal experience with him and marv twittering in my ear stating the same thing. Generally speaking it would make me a little suspicious, marv using this heuristic, but given that it's Cheese and given that marv has claimed cop, I have to at least factor in that I think that AS TOWN, marv thinks Cheese is suspicious for sounding townie. Further, Cheese seems to KNOW I'm town in his posting, from how he "understands why VE would find" him suspicious to how his formatting seems to mimic JAT, someone VE has hard townread, it all feels like a direct appeal to someone who is familiar with his meta. Or maybe that's just my ego. At any rate, Cheese is one I'd be interested in lynching today.

Kelsier is hard for me to read in general. I'm pretty sure I've always had a hard time reading him, and that trend continues this game. But again, he seems to share my thought process on some important reads, and he seems to openly disagree with others, so for now I'm throwing him in the town pile.

As I said earlier, Hopeless felt scummy yesterday to me, more so than boxerfred. I would have preferred a Hopeless lynch yesterday, and here we are today, Hopeless still alive and barely posting. The only thing that gives me pause is how many people seem to be just fine with a Hopeless lynch. But honestly the votes don't actually reflect that so maybe I'm just imagining things. I'm still fine with a Hopeless lynch today.

With that I'm going to go ahead and throw my weight behind the Cheesecake lynch but I'm conflicted because, a) because I like marv and JAT but b) the people openly stating they're okay with a Hopeless lynch are the ones piddle-dicking around and not voting, which makes me think that vote is better in general. I'd like to hear marv and JAT's thoughts on the matter in particular, but everyone is welcome to give input.

On August 30 2015 04:29 Hopeless1der wrote:
You said you were in agreement with someone. Who was/were that someone (s)?

On August 30 2015 04:34 Hopeless1der wrote:

And the part where I asked who you would rather lynch between CC and me? Can you read, then answer a question properly or not at all? Instead of giving half sarcastic answers like "both" and confusing people with bullshit like I didn't agree with anyone in particular. I want connections to people and why, not "the thread said so"

On August 30 2015 04:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:
wait VE u forgot about trfel, weren't u going hard on him earlier?

On August 30 2015 07:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Who's ruxxar?

On August 30 2015 08:34 MoosyDoosy wrote:

A guy who makes little to no sense as town but seems rather astute when he pulls Mafia. He is also an Oprah with his town reads early on in this game.

On August 30 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
Why does justanothertownie place so much value in rsoultin's reads when rsoultin was (presumably) wrong on justanothertownie for most of Day 1 and justanothertownie spent much of the game talking about how terrible rsoultin is at this game? I don't think it's significant, but I don't like it?

On August 31 2015 00:03 Vivax wrote:


Can you tell me where you got from that I'm hard to read? I'm actually pretty easy to read.

On August 31 2015 01:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Palmar clearly doesnt care about who gets lynched. Just look at yesterday.

On August 31 2015 01:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Vivax you are tunneling and its causing you to not analyze the game. I voted for you 7 hours before trfel did. My vote had nothing to do woth him. If you are mafia keep pressuring though.

On August 31 2015 01:32 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Palmar

On August 31 2015 05:07 justanothertownie wrote:

Maybe we should just lynch you instead.