EPTNewbie Student Mafia XII - Page 7
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At some point I'll weigh in on n00b's posts. | ||
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On July 17 2015 03:40 Fidei86 wrote: Okay, I am about and I'm going to go back to the start of the game and see if I can't solve this thing. If you have any specific questions for me, post them now and I'll get to them, I promise. Curious to hear your opinions on: Grokken, Tictock, Silentwarrior, TJHuggins and a world in which WonnaPlay could be scum. | ||
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*looks at Fidei innocently*  Well I hope you aren't mafia Fidei... /tinfoil | ||
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I'm going to assume medic save because like I said d1, I was RBed, and KSC was killed and a veteran would cause scum to stack RB/KP. | ||
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On July 17 2015 07:05 rsoultin wrote: There was no mod error. Rsoul best mod! Cheers for helping out Ras <3 And very nicely done Mr. Medic. <3 | ||
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Shortened nickname. First 1-2 games we had together we developed a nickname for her - Rasputin, sometimes I call her that or just Ras, a few call her by her first name, those that know her outside the game. Next bit is for TJHuggins On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote: Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order: 1. MoosyDoosy 2. Sulfuras 3. Grokken Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.) If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active. On July 16 2015 08:22 TJHuggins wrote: This was actually one of the major reasons I put him as #2 on my mafia list on day 1. I thought that it was probable he was caught and a lie and was tying to "talk" his way out of it. On July 16 2015 08:25 TJHuggins wrote: He characterizes it as a "mistake." But what he is describing isn't really what I would call a mistake; it's more like - I'm not sure what to call it- but not a mistake. If what he says is true, his thought appeared to get mumble jumbled just due to the time that passed between the time when he first started typing his post to when he finished. There's nothing he could do to avoid that really. It seems odd to call that a "mistake." So TJHuggins, Sulfurus is gone now obviously. Aside from the information you've been pinged from (the so called critical information) where do you stand on your reads? - Where do you stand on MD and Grokken? - Who are your remaining two scummers and why? | ||
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On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote: WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me. "1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier). He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me.. 2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell. 3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day.. " [...] Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean Can you explain how the WP read especially from the perspective of a first timer TL newbie, would make him exclusively mafia? And do you have any thoughts about Tictock's read progression? | ||
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On July 17 2015 19:02 Fidei86 wrote: @TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...). Haste to judgement (anyone) is generally a scum tell because scum need to find ways to spin things for their agenda. Namely finding a path to mislynches. The comment for Scott (second sentence) I also don't like because there is a world where a town Scott would say something like that. (If Scott is Mafia its not for that.) Setup speculation is NAI in most cases to begin with but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for a town veteran to say that in a newbie game (where newbies may not grasp mechanics). Even ignoring Scott's meta (which Tictock won't know regardless of alignment) the reaction could also come from any town who is already being scumread widely and this is true for Scott. He could be saying this as mafia but in reality as any alignment. What I can conclude is there is haste to judgement over the number of posts this has happened on Tictock's filter and not just the post on Scott. He fails to consider the potential town realm for any of the people he's commenting on, and a lack of demonstrating remedy - that is more of a problem when you see that over several posts. For example I already know Grokken's been doing a lot of parroting which in of itself has bothered me but newbies do that as either alignment but there are a few ways to split the newb behaviour from the scum behaviour. Tictock isn't doing that over the course of several posts. I believe n00bKing mentioned something earlier that was similar but that is what I see here. | ||
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On July 17 2015 16:21 Tictock wrote: As much as I want to hear from TJ I'm actually pretty down to lynch SW or Scott at the moment. For now SW takes priority for me. ## Vote: silentwarrior What in your mind makes SW a stronger candidate than TJH or Scott? | ||
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(on mobile at the airport....) | ||
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Point is, there are layers of behaviour that already indicate he's mafia and as for engaging him (or updating with new information), as long as he's AFK the previous stances aren't really going to go away. As for the point on scum making some sort of effort, as for how scum behaves, here's the thing, some can lurk if they see townies tunnelled on each other because they are more or less doing the job for him. There definitely have been student games where the townies were so tunnelled on each other that scum were able to coast and stay under the radar regardless of their own activity. Optimal mafia activity is - or should be - fluid which is why I say that - esepcially in newbie game where the average activity is lower anyhow - activity itself isn't necessarily going to be a scum tell, but can supplment his past behaviour and the current state of the game. Also going for TJ's partner doesn't make sense when you don't know TJ's alignment and when you seem to be less convinced of it. (unless that's what you meant by the third paragraph) If you think SW is independently scummy and the most scummy that's one thing OR since there's a flipped mafia if you think there's enough association there to implicate him then that's a separate issue. As for Ghandi saying that TJ is a bad lynch, that also doesn't mean he's right either. He admitted he might not have had the best grip on reads and especially if he wasn't a blue role where he could have had access to more perfect information. His sentiment was honest, but it's not always going to guarantee he's accurate. My VCA was 50/50 on SW, but I need to review the points that n00b also brought up. You do have a point on how "everyone is willing to lynch him" and how that creates some doubt but you also have to look into those sheeping for bad reasons or whether the evidence that is already there is powerful enough. Furthermore, with 10 players in the game, if TJ is scum, and with only one other scummer left, what choice does the remaining scummer have? I don't think making a ballsy play is relevant. Even if TJ were town, there's a crazy amount of people screwing up for that to happen, and the everyone wanting to lynch TJH argument, well it's also still pretty early in the day and others have yet to chime in. This is not to say that exploring pushing SW is wrong but I think you are discounting TJH for the wrong reasons. If there were say 9 players left, 3 of which were unflipped scum and then you have everyone piling onto one player, that point might have more validity. As for TJ's AFKness, I would expect him to show up at some point and explain himself, answer the questions that are in the thread and look for mafia or suggest alternatives if he isn't one of them. TLDR - the scummers need to be sought out separately before you make associations. You can make pre-associative cases for information but that should not be the brunt of the basis for the lynch. Cases can also be built on layers and not just one massive post (that's what I gathered you were implying from your use of the word case) and scum behaviour is WIFOM/fluid - you cant assume esp in a newbie game that a certain alignment will lurk or not (given your comment "needs to make some kina of effort") | ||
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I do not like the timing of the claim but again...this is a newbie game and this train was pretty run away. The first thing to do is wait for a counterclaim. I figured we're in a DT/medic situation but given he claimed with both of his checks right away it sounds believable. Given those he checked I am inclined to believe him. If there is no counterclaim and with the GF dead we lynch SW 100%. End of. If he flips town then TJH is autolynch. | ||
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