• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:11
CET 16:11
KST 00:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down14ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League73Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.167
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
Recent recommended BW games Oceanic Brood War - Join and chat! Sagi.gg Launcher Released Bot on ladder Do we even care about balance?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [BSL23] RO24 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9463 users

Newbie Student Mafia XII - Page 7

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next All
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 05:36 GMT
#639
When I can, I'll try and look through Grokken's filter to see if the progressions match the voting or if there's any other issues I might find. I haven't caught up since I AFKed....same goes for the others I may have reservations on.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 13:07 GMT
#651
Just an FYI, VCAs are pretty strong but they are just one set of data points. I probably wouldn't have suspected Tictock prior to the VCA.

At some point I'll weigh in on n00b's posts.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 18:45 GMT
#658
On July 17 2015 03:40 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay, I am about and I'm going to go back to the start of the game and see if I can't solve this thing. If you have any specific questions for me, post them now and I'll get to them, I promise.


Curious to hear your opinions on:

Grokken, Tictock, Silentwarrior, TJHuggins and a world in which WonnaPlay could be scum.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 21:52 GMT
#681
His list posts are generally terrible as both alignments.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 21:55 GMT
#682
And Fidei, I think you made some really good points on WP I didn't even realise the issues with his hypothetical post, going to try and sort through those if I'm still alive d3...

*looks at Fidei innocently*

Well I hope you aren't mafia Fidei...
/tinfoil
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:03 GMT
#687
???????
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:03 GMT
#688
Mod error or did no one die last night?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:05 GMT
#692
Well I've seen both notations - in games with multiple KP, the missing KP is omitted, but if no one dies, well I know I've explicitly stated "no one dies" I guess it could be either.

I'm going to assume medic save because like I said d1, I was RBed, and KSC was killed and a veteran would cause scum to stack RB/KP.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:07 GMT
#695
On July 17 2015 07:05 rsoultin wrote:
There was no mod error. Rsoul best mod!


Cheers for helping out Ras <3

And very nicely done Mr. Medic. <3
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:25 GMT
#701
I was not roleblocked.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 16 2015 22:37 GMT
#702
I want to hear more from Grokken when he returns, who is most likely scum: TJH, SW, WP, Tictock.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 06:21 GMT
#719
On July 17 2015 13:46 n00bKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2015 07:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Cheers for helping out Ras <3

Why would you call her "Ras?"


Shortened nickname. First 1-2 games we had together we developed a nickname for her - Rasputin, sometimes I call her that or just Ras, a few call her by her first name, those that know her outside the game.

Next bit is for TJHuggins

On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:

1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken

Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)

If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.


On July 16 2015 08:22 TJHuggins wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2015 08:18 Half the Sky wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=11#210

Those of you looking into Grokken consider this from D1.

This was actually one of the major reasons I put him as #2 on my mafia list on day 1. I thought that it was probable he was caught and a lie and was tying to "talk" his way out of it.


On July 16 2015 08:25 TJHuggins wrote:
He characterizes it as a "mistake." But what he is describing isn't really what I would call a mistake; it's more like - I'm not sure what to call it- but not a mistake. If what he says is true, his thought appeared to get mumble jumbled just due to the time that passed between the time when he first started typing his post to when he finished. There's nothing he could do to avoid that really. It seems odd to call that a "mistake."


So TJHuggins, Sulfurus is gone now obviously. Aside from the information you've been pinged from (the so called critical information) where do you stand on your reads?

- Where do you stand on MD and Grokken?
- Who are your remaining two scummers and why?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 06:37 GMT
#720
On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote:
WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me.
"1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
"
[...]

Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean


Can you explain how the WP read especially from the perspective of a first timer TL newbie, would make him exclusively mafia?

And do you have any thoughts about Tictock's read progression?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 06:58 GMT
#722
Voted TJ - hopefully he'll shed light from his perspective. Particularly if somehow he's town he can shed some light on the d2 voting.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 13:49 GMT
#732
To clarify the ninja voting comments, ninja voting is where you actually vote in the vote thread without a corresponding vote or explanation in the game thread. Ninja voting is a scum tell. In normal (traditional role/ruleset) games people cannot PM votes to the moderator. There are exceptions in themed games but that's beyond the scope here. This game is a normal.

On July 17 2015 19:02 Fidei86 wrote:
@TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...).


Haste to judgement (anyone) is generally a scum tell because scum need to find ways to spin things for their agenda. Namely finding a path to mislynches.

The comment for Scott (second sentence) I also don't like because there is a world where a town Scott would say something like that. (If Scott is Mafia its not for that.) Setup speculation is NAI in most cases to begin with but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for a town veteran to say that in a newbie game (where newbies may not grasp mechanics). Even ignoring Scott's meta (which Tictock won't know regardless of alignment) the reaction could also come from any town who is already being scumread widely and this is true for Scott. He could be saying this as mafia but in reality as any alignment.

What I can conclude is there is haste to judgement over the number of posts this has happened on Tictock's filter and not just the post on Scott. He fails to consider the potential town realm for any of the people he's commenting on, and a lack of demonstrating remedy - that is more of a problem when you see that over several posts.

For example I already know Grokken's been doing a lot of parroting which in of itself has bothered me but newbies do that as either alignment but there are a few ways to split the newb behaviour from the scum behaviour. Tictock isn't doing that over the course of several posts. I believe n00bKing mentioned something earlier that was similar but that is what I see here.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 13:54 GMT
#733
On July 17 2015 16:21 Tictock wrote:
As much as I want to hear from TJ I'm actually pretty down to lynch SW or Scott at the moment.

For now SW takes priority for me.

## Vote: silentwarrior


What in your mind makes SW a stronger candidate than TJH or Scott?
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 13:57 GMT
#734
You explained your issues for SW on page 36 but where is your comparison for why TJH ranks below him? if you've said that just link me to the page.

(on mobile at the airport....)
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 15:39 GMT
#737
Well the problem with TJ aside from his D1 play is that he also keeps piping in saying he's going to deliver stuff, at least Scott's done that to some extent and furthermore based on the content that already exists n00b's made several tie-ins to association cases (so lynching TJH can be argued as a lynch for information regardless of alignment yet there's a stronger case if he is independent most scummy) where TJ IS the common denominator plus the voting analysis implicates him to some degree.

Point is, there are layers of behaviour that already indicate he's mafia and as for engaging him (or updating with new information), as long as he's AFK the previous stances aren't really going to go away.

As for the point on scum making some sort of effort, as for how scum behaves, here's the thing, some can lurk if they see townies tunnelled on each other because they are more or less doing the job for him. There definitely have been student games where the townies were so tunnelled on each other that scum were able to coast and stay under the radar regardless of their own activity. Optimal mafia activity is - or should be - fluid which is why I say that - esepcially in newbie game where the average activity is lower anyhow - activity itself isn't necessarily going to be a scum tell, but can supplment his past behaviour and the current state of the game.

Also going for TJ's partner doesn't make sense when you don't know TJ's alignment and when you seem to be less convinced of it. (unless that's what you meant by the third paragraph)

If you think SW is independently scummy and the most scummy that's one thing OR since there's a flipped mafia if you think there's enough association there to implicate him then that's a separate issue.

As for Ghandi saying that TJ is a bad lynch, that also doesn't mean he's right either. He admitted he might not have had the best grip on reads and especially if he wasn't a blue role where he could have had access to more perfect information. His sentiment was honest, but it's not always going to guarantee he's accurate.

My VCA was 50/50 on SW, but I need to review the points that n00b also brought up.

You do have a point on how "everyone is willing to lynch him" and how that creates some doubt but you also have to look into those sheeping for bad reasons or whether the evidence that is already there is powerful enough. Furthermore, with 10 players in the game, if TJ is scum, and with only one other scummer left, what choice does the remaining scummer have? I don't think making a ballsy play is relevant. Even if TJ were town, there's a crazy amount of people screwing up for that to happen, and the everyone wanting to lynch TJH argument, well it's also still pretty early in the day and others have yet to chime in.

This is not to say that exploring pushing SW is wrong but I think you are discounting TJH for the wrong reasons.

If there were say 9 players left, 3 of which were unflipped scum and then you have everyone piling onto one player, that point might have more validity.

As for TJ's AFKness, I would expect him to show up at some point and explain himself, answer the questions that are in the thread and look for mafia or suggest alternatives if he isn't one of them.

TLDR - the scummers need to be sought out separately before you make associations. You can make pre-associative cases for information but that should not be the brunt of the basis for the lynch. Cases can also be built on layers and not just one massive post (that's what I gathered you were implying from your use of the word case) and scum behaviour is WIFOM/fluid - you cant assume esp in a newbie game that a certain alignment will lurk or not (given your comment "needs to make some kina of effort")
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 17 2015 15:44 GMT
#738
In any case I'm gone for awhile...I'll be back when I'm settled Stateside.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
July 18 2015 02:05 GMT
#778
I am settled in NYC, I am honestly knackered from the flight etc etc. so bear with me. Probably going to crash soon.

I do not like the timing of the claim but again...this is a newbie game and this train was pretty run away.

The first thing to do is wait for a counterclaim. I figured we're in a DT/medic situation but given he claimed with both of his checks right away it sounds believable. Given those he checked I am inclined to believe him.

If there is no counterclaim and with the GF dead we lynch SW 100%. End of. If he flips town then TJH is autolynch.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
21:00
WardiTV Mondays #110
IntoTheiNu 1221
WardiTV923
OGKoka 305
IndyStarCraft 204
Rex148
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko448
OGKoka 305
IndyStarCraft 204
Rex 148
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4347
BeSt 1326
EffOrt 823
Shuttle 659
Horang2 613
Soma 593
Mini 453
Light 362
Larva 354
Snow 303
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 271
ZerO 243
ggaemo 206
Soulkey 126
Rush 120
Zeus 110
Dewaltoss 89
Mind 85
Sharp 55
JYJ 41
Mong 38
Shinee 32
Terrorterran 31
Killer 29
Trap 28
ToSsGirL 27
Bishop 25
Hm[arnc] 22
Aegong 19
Sacsri 17
Shine 16
Sexy 16
sorry 15
Movie 14
zelot 14
yabsab 11
Dota 2
Gorgc17465
qojqva1443
syndereN247
BananaSlamJamma128
Counter-Strike
dupreeh503
byalli450
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr26
Other Games
singsing2389
B2W.Neo1311
hiko1274
Liquid`RaSZi1092
Beastyqt566
Pyrionflax283
crisheroes246
Mlord241
Hui .180
XaKoH 175
Liquid`VortiX144
RotterdaM110
Liquid`LucifroN66
QueenE38
ZerO(Twitch)12
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL32469
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 5
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1880
• WagamamaTV496
League of Legends
• Nemesis2125
• Jankos768
• TFBlade512
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
19h 49m
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 18h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 19h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Epic.LAN
4 days
Yamato Cup
5 days
Map Test Tournament
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - GSC
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
ShieldBattery League 1
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.