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On July 07 2015 12:08 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:05 Holyflare wrote:
like it doesn't matter what I said in the early game about being "burnt out" and going hard on him since that was simply me trying to pressure him into contributing and revealing his alignment but then he started asking those questions about Marv that he already knows the answers to and questions about me that had no response no matter what you answered, hence why it annoys me to no end when you try and undermine any kind of questioning i have with "god can't you read" or "he already said that" it doesn't really matter if he has I want him to answer for himself and do things for himself so I can get a read on him, not on you i've been trying to do that? it feels like you're not letting me no, what i should say is it feels like you're trying to marginalize me, and that irrationally pisses me off
Well when I ask people questions I expect reactions from the person and not someone saying no and back off and that's not indicative while i'm doing it before the person has responded 
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On July 07 2015 12:05 ObiWanShinobi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 11:56 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
I am surprised no one has brought up Lightningstrike's curious response when asked about his scumreads...Trfel and me being his top scumreads makes very little sense to begin with, and his reasons on top of it leave a lot to be desired. He could have simply stated he was sheeping HF but he made up a poor reason that seems convoluted. I think if by some miracle trfel is town then LS would be a pretty good lynch to look at. Elaborate?
You would have to explain what you specifically wanted to know. My conclusion is that it's clearly a tug of war here and one side contains a mafia, which I am siding with the side saying trfel is mafia. If he is town it is worth looking at the other side for mafia of course. It's a bit simplistic but I feel it works in this particular situation
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Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical.
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On July 07 2015 12:13 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:
eh, chem
i need to check that against something, geript
i'll do it before bed tonight rsoul can you do this? I'm starting to think you are mafia because i don't agree with anything you are saying and it doesn't help that you and HF are only talking about the trfel stuff.
to be quite frank with you i'm not in a place to take this post well and i'm trying not to bite your head off, so no -_-
i said i'd do it before bed. i will.
if you want to actually talk then do so
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On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical.
this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you
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The fact of the matter is this is a MAJORITY lynch which means the majority of people have to agree. That means you need to spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on one or two people and discussing them to death. Sure there are other people and if you guys have a better alternative, feel free to bring it up. I am doing my bit to push someone I think is scummy to all of you in order to get all of your opinions and reach a majority.
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On July 07 2015 12:13 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:08 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:05 Holyflare wrote:
like it doesn't matter what I said in the early game about being "burnt out" and going hard on him since that was simply me trying to pressure him into contributing and revealing his alignment but then he started asking those questions about Marv that he already knows the answers to and questions about me that had no response no matter what you answered, hence why it annoys me to no end when you try and undermine any kind of questioning i have with "god can't you read" or "he already said that" it doesn't really matter if he has I want him to answer for himself and do things for himself so I can get a read on him, not on you i've been trying to do that? it feels like you're not letting me no, what i should say is it feels like you're trying to marginalize me, and that irrationally pisses me off Well when I ask people questions I expect reactions from the person and not someone saying no and back off and that's not indicative while i'm doing it before the person has responded
noted
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On July 07 2015 12:14 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:05 ObiWanShinobi wrote:On July 07 2015 11:56 XEliteBlueHunter69X wrote:
I am surprised no one has brought up Lightningstrike's curious response when asked about his scumreads...Trfel and me being his top scumreads makes very little sense to begin with, and his reasons on top of it leave a lot to be desired. He could have simply stated he was sheeping HF but he made up a poor reason that seems convoluted. I think if by some miracle trfel is town then LS would be a pretty good lynch to look at. Elaborate? You would have to explain what you specifically wanted to know. My conclusion is that it's clearly a tug of war here and one side contains a mafia, which I am siding with the side saying trfel is mafia. If he is town it is worth looking at the other side for mafia of course. It's a bit simplistic but I feel it works in this particular situation
That's the most opportunistic thing I've ever heard someone say.
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On July 07 2015 12:16 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical. this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you
"yes he trolls sometimes" is that what you're going to say? I don't want an argument and it doesn't have to be. If my opinion is wrong, point out how.
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And I'm asking you to elaborate on why LS is scummy and how that's outweighed by Trfel being scummy.
You can't have both.
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On July 07 2015 12:15 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:13 Breshke wrote:On July 07 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:
eh, chem
i need to check that against something, geript
i'll do it before bed tonight rsoul can you do this? I'm starting to think you are mafia because i don't agree with anything you are saying and it doesn't help that you and HF are only talking about the trfel stuff. to be quite frank with you i'm not in a place to take this post well and i'm trying not to bite your head off, so no -_- i said i'd do it before bed. i will. if you want to actually talk then do so
hmm okay I am fairly sure you are town
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On July 07 2015 12:17 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:16 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical. this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you "yes he trolls sometimes" is that what you're going to say? I don't want an argument and it doesn't have to be. If my opinion is wrong, point out how.
yeah. especially early game and in large games :/ i'm not going to lie and say that this is an exceptional amount of nothing compared to what i'm used to, though
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On July 07 2015 12:18 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:15 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:13 Breshke wrote:On July 07 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:
eh, chem
i need to check that against something, geript
i'll do it before bed tonight rsoul can you do this? I'm starting to think you are mafia because i don't agree with anything you are saying and it doesn't help that you and HF are only talking about the trfel stuff. to be quite frank with you i'm not in a place to take this post well and i'm trying not to bite your head off, so no -_- i said i'd do it before bed. i will. if you want to actually talk then do so hmm okay I am fairly sure you are town
...i really don't get how this read changed based on that one post, bresh
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On July 07 2015 12:19 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:17 Holyflare wrote:On July 07 2015 12:16 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical. this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you "yes he trolls sometimes" is that what you're going to say? I don't want an argument and it doesn't have to be. If my opinion is wrong, point out how. yeah. especially early game and in large games :/ i'm not going to lie and say that this is an exceptional amount of nothing compared to what i'm used to, though
that should say "isn't"
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On July 07 2015 12:19 rsoultin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:17 Holyflare wrote:On July 07 2015 12:16 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical. this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you "yes he trolls sometimes" is that what you're going to say? I don't want an argument and it doesn't have to be. If my opinion is wrong, point out how. yeah. especially early game and in large games :/ i'm not going to lie and say that this is an exceptional amount of nothing compared to what i'm used to, though
That's pretty much the crux of it. I've looked at all his big games and if it's trolling at the start of the game it's only a few posts max. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and that's why I put pressure on him so he'd start and be logical and instead he went the totally opposite reaction which he has never done before. Hence, scum read.
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The fact he missed the part where we town read LS for the crack/weed thing kind of indicates to me that he isn't reading the thread and is making a case based on LS' filter alone, which is scummy in the context of Trfel, especially combined with everything else.
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On July 07 2015 12:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2015 12:19 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:17 Holyflare wrote:On July 07 2015 12:16 rsoultin wrote:On July 07 2015 12:15 Holyflare wrote:
Rsoultin this is nothing to do with trfel being afk. Trfel is here. Everytime Trfel is "here" in previous games he posts something logical. Here he is around and posting nothing logical. this isn't entirely true but i don't want to argue it anymore, if that's okay with you "yes he trolls sometimes" is that what you're going to say? I don't want an argument and it doesn't have to be. If my opinion is wrong, point out how. yeah. especially early game and in large games :/ i'm not going to lie and say that this is an exceptional amount of nothing compared to what i'm used to, though That's pretty much the crux of it. I've looked at all his big games and if it's trolling at the start of the game it's only a few posts max. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and that's why I put pressure on him so he'd start and be logical and instead he went the totally opposite reaction which he has never done before. Hence, scum read.
yeah i guess this makes sense >< i've said several times that i don't blame people for scumreading truffle even if i don't agree, but you just seemed way overly aggressive about it and i took you literally xP
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On July 07 2015 12:18 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
And I'm asking you to elaborate on why LS is scummy and how that's outweighed by Trfel being scummy.
You can't have both.
it isn't and I surely can, hyperbolic statements aren't going to sway me from my opinion.
as an aside, the last time you told some one to
"Elaborate?" you were scum so not sure what to make of that.
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On July 07 2015 02:48 Harkon wrote:
Rsoultin and HF.
Please stop shitting up the thread with this unless you have new relevant arguments about someones alignment. Yes, it is weird how dismissive and condescending Holyflare is towards you, rsoultin. I am well aware of that. But instead of ranting about it try to find actual arguments for why what he says about Trfel is not true. If you are town you are not achieving anything by throwing a fit.
HF stop trying to make her rage. It's the best excuse for her to avoid contributing meaningful things.
mafia
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These are your reasons for disagreeing but they are not really evaluated at all and don't address the points I actually raised. The burnt out scum thing was simply because I've experienced it before and it seemed very familiar. Sure, it could have been him being tired but then it continued into mafia redundant questions and processes which led me to believe it actually was just him being mafia and burnt out. Sure, you can say this is not relevant if you don't think so.
--It seems weird to interpret posting so narrowly. It is possible that he is burnt out mafia. But you could be just projecting. And frankly, I see no reason to trust what that others see things I don't see. At least at this stage of the game.
Then there is the point about his questions which lead nowhere and have answers that he already knows about - you didn't address this point.
--People use weird ways to establish points. I assume the point of the question is then not to attain information, but to see other's point of view on them. There have been a lot of dumb questions and responses in this thread. Look at LS's filter, for heaven's sake.
You also misinterpret the point about his read on me. Him saying I am mafia has nothing to do with it. He has no logical reason to think I am mafia because he has not stated why I am mafia but instead just repeats that I am. Yet, he was quite happy to elaborate (although badly) on LS when asked but not anyone else. LS is an extremely easy person to push as town due to his nature. His list of reads do not really have substance behind them. You say "what differentiates them from a town with unexplained reads" and the answer is that a towny will try his best to explain when asked because what has he got to hide? Nothing. Trfel repeatedly hides things and says he won't reveal it or that he'll save it for later. He is playing very dishonest and mafia like.
--Oh come off it. He is playing dishonest? What in the world does that even mean? I honestly think that being acerbic on the first day is towny. Why would mafia hide things, and refuse to explain? Anyone here is good enough to come up with at least a threadbare reason for their reads. Trfel isn't afraid of being lynched, and I like that. The idea of mafia as the furtive town in the corner is silly.
Trolling isn't indicative, sure. I troll a lot. Trfel does not particularly troll and if you read the database you would see that even if he does troll he actually plays seriously and logically.
--Trolling is fine as long as it doesn't get in the way of actual play. Trfel's has not.
The rest of the LS read you have not really addressed at all. How can trfel make a case on LS based on the early game but the early game is when he said he doesn't scum read LS? He changed his read on LS because of questions he asked LS about ritoky. Where are they in his case? They do not feature because he is simply reading LS' filter and making scummy narratives from them.
--LS's filter is SCUMMY. Read it. I can link a dozen posts that raised my eyebrow. Whether you are town or mafia, your job is to build narratives. The question is which are the most convincing. I didn't think Trfel's was particularly convincing, but at least he is offering up a thread that we can then weight.
Trfel isn't even towny. Just not scummy enough to be worth going to the voting thread and changing my vote. I like believing in myself, especially early on. I'll cede that you have probably played with him for than I have, and may be right.
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EPT
