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It's so fun how Vayne is still not responding
##vote VayneAuthority
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On June 08 2015 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
I thought marv was scum?
He's at least communicating, Vayne is not. Bro if you wanna go at me vote me and see me flip VT. I said I stop talking about marv.
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On June 08 2015 22:36 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 20:11 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2015 19:40 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2015 19:36 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 18:56 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2015 16:28 boxerfred wrote:
It's not about the phrasing. It's about a point. In my first game, my coach advised me to not only ask random questions or do "he's scummy" statements, but actually try to work towards a point or a conclusion which would help set up a picture of someone that is as bulletproof as it gets. You're not trying to do that. You take out one post out of my filter, put it in the only context where it looks even remotely scummy and insist that this post is a huge TMI blow that I made. I already answered Salty's questions. Then, I answered the ones you raised, explaining why I went for you and not for Salty or JAT. You see, I'm trying to collaborate. You're just holding your barrel at me, not even caring about anything else.
Actually can't get over how bad this interpretation is, gonna dissect it for my own amusement It's not about the phrasing. It's about a point. In my first game, my coach advised me to not only ask random questions or do "he's scummy" statements, but actually try to work towards a point or a conclusion which would help set up a picture of someone that is as bulletproof as it gets. You're not trying to do that. Totally irrelevant to anything? It's like criticising a tennis player for preferring to rally on the baseline or something, it means nothing to anything You take out one post out of my filter, put it in the only context where it looks even remotely scummy and insist that this post is a huge TMI blow that I made. The "only" context it looks "remotely scummy"? You mean it's a fucking beacon of townie shining light otherwise? You make a bunch of reads conditional on yamato being mafia, it doesn't take much putting in context. And I was 3rd to the punch! You keep attacking me for it, yet not the others before me, but we'll come to that... Also "a huge TMI blow"? I think my wording at the time was "this may be TMI-ish". Exaggeration much? I already answered Salty's questions. Then, I answered the ones you raised, explaining why I went for you and not for Salty or JAT. Yes, you answered the latter by going "I find these two people townie, so the points they make that are identical to yours are fine. Because I don't find you townie, these points that these 2 townies already mentioned are scummy coming from you." Yes, that doesn't make sense, sorry. You're going after me for points that aren't even mine because I'm the only one you can go after. But there is no logical sense behind it. You see, I'm trying to collaborate. lol Three ways to go on: a) you continue to pick away at my post, not asking a single question, interpreting things the worst way possible.b) you actually start asking questions that lead to a convincing point c) people just lynch me, I'll flip VT and boom scum shines. I don't even care about your answers at this point. You still did not say a single thing that sounds remotely like an indication of me being scum, yet you follow your read hardcore. Sounds like bussing to me. When you bring up sentences with a question mark again, I'll answer to what you're saying. I am not interpreting anything in the worst way possible. If you are going to claim that, demonstrate it. Because I didn't. ##Vote: boxerfredat the very least until you can demonstrate how this is even slightly true ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
sorry can't see a question mark
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On June 08 2015 22:37 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:36 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
I thought marv was scum? He's at least communicating, Vayne is not. Bro if you wanna go at me vote me and see me flip VT. I said I stop talking about marv. Dude if you keep this super defensive whiny attitude up I might just do that. Stop the martyring. Vayne rarely communicates as town. He just doesn't give a fuck usually.
Yeah then do just that. Holy fuck at this point it's all marv picking my posts instead of actually contributing so I go back to the guy who I was looking at anyways, which is Vayne. You can continue this now between me and marv in a pointless discussion, lynch martyring me and see me flip vt or you can actually try to contribute. Until there's nothing new on marv, I don't have anything to construct a case on. I am not going to get wrapped up in pointless discussions.
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On June 08 2015 22:38 marvellosity wrote:
To be very clear, I'd like very much how my post was "interpreting things in the worst way possible." i'd like specifics.
it would make me feel warm and fuzzy and you might get a bj out of it
On June 08 2015 18:56 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 16:28 boxerfred wrote:
It's not about the phrasing. It's about a point. In my first game, my coach advised me to not only ask random questions or do "he's scummy" statements, but actually try to work towards a point or a conclusion which would help set up a picture of someone that is as bulletproof as it gets. You're not trying to do that. You take out one post out of my filter, put it in the only context where it looks even remotely scummy and insist that this post is a huge TMI blow that I made. I already answered Salty's questions. Then, I answered the ones you raised, explaining why I went for you and not for Salty or JAT. You see, I'm trying to collaborate. You're just holding your barrel at me, not even caring about anything else.
Actually can't get over how bad this interpretation is, gonna dissect it for my own amusement Show nested quote +It's not about the phrasing. It's about a point. In my first game, my coach advised me to not only ask random questions or do "he's scummy" statements, but actually try to work towards a point or a conclusion which would help set up a picture of someone that is as bulletproof as it gets. You're not trying to do that. Totally irrelevant to anything? It's like criticising a tennis player for preferring to rally on the baseline or something, it means nothing to anything Show nested quote +You take out one post out of my filter, put it in the only context where it looks even remotely scummy and insist that this post is a huge TMI blow that I made. The "only" context it looks "remotely scummy"? You mean it's a fucking beacon of townie shining light otherwise? You make a bunch of reads conditional on yamato being mafia, it doesn't take much putting in context. And I was 3rd to the punch! You keep attacking me for it, yet not the others before me, but we'll come to that...Also "a huge TMI blow"? I think my wording at the time was "this may be TMI-ish". Exaggeration much? Show nested quote + I already answered Salty's questions. Then, I answered the ones you raised, explaining why I went for you and not for Salty or JAT. Yes, you answered the latter by going "I find these two people townie, so the points they make that are identical to yours are fine. Because I don't find you townie, these points that these 2 townies already mentioned are scummy coming from you." Yes, that doesn't make sense, sorry. You're going after me for points that aren't even mine because I'm the only one you can go after. But there is no logical sense behind it. lol
ok see those? Most of them are exaggerated, eg. "cant get over how bad it is". Next up: "3rd to the punch" yeah I explaind why I cared for your post only. I was not even denying that it looked like TMI. Also it's just wrong that you're the only one I'm attacking, my main points are still on vayne. also there's fucking 48 hours for the day and most of those hours I spent because you keep picking at my posts. Well done, well done. "doesn't make sense"? well it does Oo is there like a rule that says "don't go for one guy only but instead if you name 3 guys you lean to scum then you have to go for all of them in the same weight"? Sorry I missed that.
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On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote:
And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange.
I'm reading you town for this + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 06:26 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town. Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things: a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it.
Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down.
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On June 08 2015 22:47 NaCl`y wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:41 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 08 2015 22:36 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:35 justanothertownie wrote:
I thought marv was scum? He's at least communicating, Vayne is not. Bro if you wanna go at me vote me and see me flip VT. I said I stop talking about marv. Dude if you keep this super defensive whiny attitude up I might just do that. Stop the martyring. Vayne rarely communicates as town. He just doesn't give a fuck usually. Yeah then do just that. Holy fuck at this point it's all marv picking my posts instead of actually contributing so I go back to the guy who I was looking at anyways, which is Vayne. You can continue this now between me and marv in a pointless discussion, lynch martyring me and see me flip vt or you can actually try to contribute. Until there's nothing new on marv, I don't have anything to construct a case on. I am not going to get wrapped up in pointless discussions. Unfortunately, they have a point. You say marvellosity was looking worse for pointing out those things but never actually address that he wasn't the first to do so. You say that because Justanothertownie and myself looked towny then he is probably mafia for raising those points. Can you explain how this makes sense? If two people you think are towny had raised those points why does the third person who did the same thing look scummy?
Because the third one did not look towny to me before. We do not know the alignment of others, expect if we'd be scum or masons or whatever.
So:
I read person 1 as town.
I read person 2 as town.
I read person 3 as scum.
They all say the same: "Your behaviour looks scummy/TMI'ish". So I say: "well p1 is probably town. No need to go at them for that. p2? Same. But wait, there's p3. I thought he's scummy anyways, and now he goes at me? Wait a second.."
See the logic?
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On June 08 2015 22:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:49 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote:
And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange. I'm reading you town for this + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 06:26 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town. Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things: a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it. Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down. This is just deeply inconsistent - either the things on you are valid/scummy or they are not. So even if you think jat/salty are town, you should be attacking their reasoning, rather than simply attacking me for holding the same/similar reasoning.
It's valid that this was a TMI-ish call, can't deny that. If you go in my filter, you'll see that I needed a while to realize that. So I see why there's a scum lean on me.
Regarding the bolded part: oh should I? Why should I stop going after you?
|
On June 08 2015 22:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:49 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote:
And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange. I'm reading you town for this + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 06:26 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town. Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things: a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it. Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down. That's fine. It is a good reason to townread me. But if marv has the same thoughts about your posting than me then that itself cannot be scummy since I am town.Ok, so you claim he is only adding fuel to the fire. Maybe. But that's not all he is doing, right? He did not focus only on you. He made quite a few posts about mig for example. Do you think those posts are scummy too?
Explain the bolded part, I don't understand it. Why can't he be scum AND point out my TMI-ish behaviour?
"Do you think those posts are scummy too?"
Cant say. In general, asking questions and building cases is a good thing for town. Of course that can be a try to mis-lynch.
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On June 08 2015 22:54 justanothertownie wrote:
Like, I want you to read marvs filter and tell me what you think of it if you ignore his push on you.
That's a great idea. I'll do this.
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On June 06 2015 05:04 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 04:51 yamato77 wrote:
fecal is right tho, game is pretty boring
until BF does something that looks even remotely townie, I'm content sitting on the idea of lynching him,
you lazy fucks can do the scumhunting this game, I'm uninspired. scummy.
On June 06 2015 05:07 marvellosity wrote:
not funny. i've heard the "woe betide is me, i cba to do things, you guys do things" shtick before
and you've done it twice already.
Good posts on yamato being scum.
On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum.
No vote following that up however, and no reasoning. Lateron, he says it "was an emotional reaction".
See also:
On June 07 2015 01:13 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2015 01:11 NaCl`y wrote:On June 07 2015 01:06 marvellosity wrote:Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. i do this sort of thing all the time. so either you don't know my play at all, or you're just trying to guess how i'd play. both options suck. While you may lynch people like that "all the time" that is because you have simply eliminated the possibility of other people being mafia through repeated interactions and thinking. Something that is severely lacking from you in this game. I do not believe you call Artanis[Xp] confirmed mafia for his claim with the provision that you'll leave him alone unless someone counterclaims him: On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. and then see a counterclaim yet still call him possibly mafia but not want to lynch him 10,000 times over when this would pander to your ego for finding him. because the first quote is an emotional reaction the second is me making myself step back and think basically a massive towntell.
True, but what I don't like is that you point out that it's a towntell. That could be a scum play.
On June 06 2015 06:16 marvellosity wrote:
##unvote
##vote: fuba
come play, sweetie
Coming out of nothing, really. Just a pressure vote for an afk I guess.
Then, two pages of oneliners happen, with great posts like..
On June 06 2015 20:56 marvellosity wrote:
there should really be a "rules people should pay attention to" part of every OP
On June 07 2015 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
is my read on you reasonable, fuba?
On June 07 2015 01:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2015 01:21 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:17 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:15 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:12 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:08 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:04 marvellosity wrote:
boring. maybe you should lynch me then, that would be fun.
i don't really understand why jat thinks i might be mafia though. I had the feeling since your first posts and your reaction to the claims HAS been pretty weird in the sense that you agreed with my logic but still did not join my wagon and went for this lurker scumread on Fuba instead. And like salty said this mod question is just really really strange. Why do you understand other people scumreading you but not me? because i've not done very much, but usually you have been quite good at picking up on my tone as town, so i thought you would have in this instance too. also you know (re: getting on artanis' wagon) that i can be swayed by a logical argument but still not "feel it" as much as i maybe should. (or in fact shouldn't, given how things have turned out - seems i was right. being scumread for being right in the end would be annoying) Yes, it would be annoying but you were not right. You called my stuff convincing which means you thought Artanis was more than likely mafia. I don't know what's not to feel about that when you called him mafia BEFORE the counterclaim and then a counterclaim happens but you still do not want to lynch Artanis. so why would i play like that as mafia??? set up my lynch and then not go for it, for free, when you give me an ironclad argument i can vote on, and i will never, ever, ever come under scrutiny because i attacked artanis first? i don't get the logic Because you KNOW that Artanis is town and are cautious because if you also know that NaCl is town then you know something is up. you believe this? fine. that's ludicrous, but ok. whatever floats your boat.
"You don't like my reasoning? Well fuck it then". Not liking that.
On June 07 2015 07:27 marvellosity wrote:
bitch pls
get on my level
Quality
On June 08 2015 02:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 01:26 NaCl`y wrote:On June 07 2015 22:43 marvellosity wrote:
I don't care if I repeated or not, it's what I think ^^
it could be chez, but it could be several ppl really.
Who are these other people you speak of? I think these people are town: 1.marvellosity 2.justanothertownie 3. NaCl`y 4.prplhz
7. Alakaslam13. Artanis[Xp] slam is kinda squeezy in betweeny, but i'd still be surprised if he were mafia. so anyone not in that list basically
Why those two in particular?
On June 08 2015 19:42 marvellosity wrote:
also, boxerfred - bussing = attacking/voting a team-mate
watch that lingo, boy
Oh. I thought bussing = getting a vote train on someone going with the intention of a mis-lynch. :<
Regarding mic: well scum read with decent reasoning into meta town read, full circle. I like that he went off me and onto someone else, though he backed off rather fast. I'd like to know what he thinks about Vayne, as I pointed out before.
Re-reading my stuff vs. him - I might want to erase those posts from the thread, most of it is rather emotional and dumb. Shouldn't post late-night.
Fire at will now
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On June 08 2015 22:57 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:53 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:50 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2015 22:49 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote:
And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange. I'm reading you town for this + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 06:26 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town. Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things: a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it. Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down. This is just deeply inconsistent - either the things on you are valid/scummy or they are not. So even if you think jat/salty are town, you should be attacking their reasoning, rather than simply attacking me for holding the same/similar reasoning. It's valid that this was a TMI-ish call, can't deny that. If you go in my filter, you'll see that I needed a while to realize that. So I see why there's a scum lean on me. Regarding the bolded part: oh should I? Why should I stop going after you? I just explained? Literally everything you have on me is: 1. you don't like my shit-fight with yamato, which is just a feeling (NB: I have never, to my recollection, just randomly shit-fighted with any of my mafia partners for no reason whatsoever. But that's just a sidenote) 2. you are attacking my reasoning on you which somehow you accept is valid coming from two of your "townreads". no bueno.
Yeah true. And guess what, I voted Vayne thus far, not you.
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On June 08 2015 23:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 23:21 boxerfred wrote:On June 06 2015 05:04 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 04:51 yamato77 wrote:
fecal is right tho, game is pretty boring
until BF does something that looks even remotely townie, I'm content sitting on the idea of lynching him,
you lazy fucks can do the scumhunting this game, I'm uninspired. scummy. On June 06 2015 05:07 marvellosity wrote:
not funny. i've heard the "woe betide is me, i cba to do things, you guys do things" shtick before
and you've done it twice already. Good posts on yamato being scum. On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. No vote following that up however, and no reasoning. Lateron, he says it "was an emotional reaction". See also: On June 07 2015 01:13 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:11 NaCl`y wrote:On June 07 2015 01:06 marvellosity wrote:Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. i do this sort of thing all the time. so either you don't know my play at all, or you're just trying to guess how i'd play. both options suck. While you may lynch people like that "all the time" that is because you have simply eliminated the possibility of other people being mafia through repeated interactions and thinking. Something that is severely lacking from you in this game. I do not believe you call Artanis[Xp] confirmed mafia for his claim with the provision that you'll leave him alone unless someone counterclaims him: On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. and then see a counterclaim yet still call him possibly mafia but not want to lynch him 10,000 times over when this would pander to your ego for finding him. because the first quote is an emotional reaction the second is me making myself step back and think basically a massive towntell. True, but what I don't like is that you point out that it's a towntell. That could be a scum play. On June 06 2015 06:16 marvellosity wrote:
##unvote
##vote: fuba
come play, sweetie Coming out of nothing, really. Just a pressure vote for an afk I guess. Then, two pages of oneliners happen, with great posts like.. On June 06 2015 20:56 marvellosity wrote:
there should really be a "rules people should pay attention to" part of every OP On June 07 2015 00:13 marvellosity wrote:
is my read on you reasonable, fuba? On June 07 2015 01:32 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:21 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:17 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:15 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:12 marvellosity wrote:On June 07 2015 01:08 justanothertownie wrote:On June 07 2015 01:04 marvellosity wrote:
boring. maybe you should lynch me then, that would be fun.
i don't really understand why jat thinks i might be mafia though. I had the feeling since your first posts and your reaction to the claims HAS been pretty weird in the sense that you agreed with my logic but still did not join my wagon and went for this lurker scumread on Fuba instead. And like salty said this mod question is just really really strange. Why do you understand other people scumreading you but not me? because i've not done very much, but usually you have been quite good at picking up on my tone as town, so i thought you would have in this instance too. also you know (re: getting on artanis' wagon) that i can be swayed by a logical argument but still not "feel it" as much as i maybe should. (or in fact shouldn't, given how things have turned out - seems i was right. being scumread for being right in the end would be annoying) Yes, it would be annoying but you were not right. You called my stuff convincing which means you thought Artanis was more than likely mafia. I don't know what's not to feel about that when you called him mafia BEFORE the counterclaim and then a counterclaim happens but you still do not want to lynch Artanis. so why would i play like that as mafia??? set up my lynch and then not go for it, for free, when you give me an ironclad argument i can vote on, and i will never, ever, ever come under scrutiny because i attacked artanis first? i don't get the logic Because you KNOW that Artanis is town and are cautious because if you also know that NaCl is town then you know something is up. you believe this? fine. that's ludicrous, but ok. whatever floats your boat. "You don't like my reasoning? Well fuck it then". Not liking that. On June 07 2015 07:27 marvellosity wrote:
bitch pls
get on my level Quality On June 08 2015 02:18 marvellosity wrote:On June 08 2015 01:26 NaCl`y wrote:On June 07 2015 22:43 marvellosity wrote:
I don't care if I repeated or not, it's what I think ^^
it could be chez, but it could be several ppl really.
Who are these other people you speak of? I think these people are town: 1.marvellosity 2.justanothertownie 3. NaCl`y 4.prplhz
7. Alakaslam13. Artanis[Xp] slam is kinda squeezy in betweeny, but i'd still be surprised if he were mafia. so anyone not in that list basically Why those two in particular? On June 08 2015 19:42 marvellosity wrote:
also, boxerfred - bussing = attacking/voting a team-mate
watch that lingo, boy Oh. I thought bussing = getting a vote train on someone going with the intention of a mis-lynch. :< Regarding mic: well scum read with decent reasoning into meta town read, full circle. I like that he went off me and onto someone else, though he backed off rather fast. I'd like to know what he thinks about Vayne, as I pointed out before. Re-reading my stuff vs. him - I might want to erase those posts from the thread, most of it is rather emotional and dumb. Shouldn't post late-night. Fire at will now I have nothing to fire at will at, because this is a bunch of random commentary that shows nothing about anything 
After reading your filter and completely disregarding what happened between us two only, I feel like you're an uneasy person who rather fucks up mafia games by throwing in random oneliners and emotional responses. Also, your tone is rather arrogant. Your filter is more townish than scummy, and I hate to say that. :-*
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On June 08 2015 23:58 NaCl`y wrote:
I'd appreciate if you were more accommodating to new people. Thank you.
Nah it's okay. It's his way of posting, why change that. This is not a newbie game.
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I have a pretty good idea who nacl is. By the way salty, who are you scum reads as of now?
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Gonna look into Fuba in a few
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On June 09 2015 03:48 NaCl`y wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 03:31 boxerfred wrote:
I have a pretty good idea who nacl is. By the way salty, who are you scum reads as of now? Do share with the class! I do not particularly know at this time since half of the players have disappeared. If I had to base it primarily from reactions and such that I remember it would be some variant of you/Chezinu/Fuba, possibly FecalFeast. Fuba's post today left me most perplexed.
cakepie. Same style of writing/posting, very sophisticated and detailed. The thing that made me commit to that was your defense of new players. 
Regarding fuba - I think he has valid reasonings behind his stuff. Like when he initially voted me for my push on yamato into unvoting etc., that was an okay-ish argumentation. He then drew a connection between marv and me, here:
On June 06 2015 23:26 fuba wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:33 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote:Sorry, I was really out of it today. First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable. On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote:
boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you? No thought on you or fecal thus far On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently. I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing. ##Vote boxerfredGotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk. Sure, there's a town narrative that fits for Artanis[Xp] but not if you consider that he's Artanis[Xp]. Artanis[Xp] hasn't been lynched in like 15 town games. Survived or night killed every single one of them. Is that because he pulls shit like this as town? Or is it because his town is extremely solid and he can rely on just playing normally to not get lynched? How do you reconcile Artanis[Xp]'s meta of never getting lynched as town with his behavior this game? Do you think this is the behavior of someone who never gets lynched? I've never been mislynched either. Is it because of my sterling town play? Just feels like a silly metric to me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:34 prplhz wrote:
@fuba What do you think about marvellosity's read on boxerfred? The read where he says bf's opening sounds different than bf's newbie mafia game? I think it sounds like barely a read. Is that supposed to dissuade me from thinking he could be scum?
He completely unfollows that train of thoughts though.
I can't really find any points from which I'd give him a scum lean thus far. Only thing to note is that he never really commits to something. On the other hand, he genuinely explains his thoughts and soft pushes. I'd expect him to go harder at people when the game goes further but at this point, he's poking very softly and disappears again then. So at this point I'm willing to read him town.
Also, regarding me: FF says I'm looking rather frustrated than townish, fuba also goes for a null/town read on me, for other reasons though. It's interesting that Salty, while being all polite, obviously has a strong scum read on me. Hm.
So here's a "feeling ranking" of all the players:
marvellosity:
town tendency. His filter didn't give any clues of huge scum players or anything that would indicate a thing. Also, he started a case on Mig, I guess that's something.
justanothertownie
Town. Still for his read that I quoted earlier and nothing that would indicate a scum alignment.
NaCl`y
Town. If I remember correctly, he also went hard on yamato. gotta re-check but I'm kinda sure.
fuba
town tendency. see this post.
VayneAuthority
scum tendency. Because he didn't really answer my questions and pops up every now and then only
FecalFeast
town tendency. his posts feel good and are very reasoned. no derailing or similar.
So that makes me locate the living scum members at:
prplhz, chezinu, HTS, Mig, VA (in no particular order).
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On June 09 2015 04:16 Fecalfeast wrote:
boxerfrank if you think marv is unfairly twisting your words, why are you content to look elsewhere? Willfully misrepresenting someone is a scum trait and you could easily make a case on marv if you compiled all the ways in which he misrepresented your argument.
I think I did the most reasonable thing: I dived his filter without taking the clash between him and me into account to get a mostly objective read on him. I reacted way too emotional to his posts and let me drag down in fast typing without much thinking. Like, I skimmed his posts and answered without putting too much thought into it. That kinda sucks. That is why I am quite content with not checking if he actually twisted my words. I'll probably dive into that conversation once more sooner this day (or next day) but at this point, I feel like there are plenty of people to concentrate on.
Another thing I want to talk about is NaCl's (fake) Doctor claim when Artanis claimed Jailor.
On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77
This huge post basically shouts "I'M TOWN". What happened to the marv scum read, NaCl? I realized that you kept me in your recent list, while Chezinu went from "no idea about" to "scum". Why is he scum by now? I am asking that because the fight between me and Marv pulled (IMHO) too much attention off previous thoughts and cases. I don't want that to happen. Also, I want you to filter dive on me and make a case. You're posting in a fair and reasonable way and I'll try to explain anything you find in a genuine way.
|
Hm. JAT insisted on Artanis' claim to be a scum play. After like page 2-3, his filter dies, almost solely oneliners without much town stuff.
Here is why I townread him in the first place:
On June 08 2015 22:53 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2015 22:49 boxerfred wrote:On June 08 2015 22:45 justanothertownie wrote:
And you are still scumreading marv for pointing things out about you that I pointed out first while you are townreading me which is very very strange. I'm reading you town for this + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 06:26 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. This post is really good. The bad thing for me is that I have to trust in what he's saying on marv's and artanis' backstory in mafia, I don't have the experience to judge that. However, given how Yamato reacts to the claim ("it's so stupid to claim!!") this feels like he makes the claim look like a bad town move and not a genious scum move. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. There, Mig jumps the train, too. All those posts have one thing in common, and that is not Artanis, but Yamato. I really think he's a good lynch by now, even if he's town. Also, NaCl (who I read as town for his explanations and the idea behind his CC) made the spoilered post, mentioning Yamato in a reasonable way, too: + Show Spoiler +On June 07 2015 00:49 NaCl`y wrote:First and foremost, I'd just like to get this out of the way. I am NOT the doctor. I decided to do this for reasons twofold: 1) I felt that no individual would ever believe they were under pressure and mafia would have caught their breadcrumb and then hard claim jailkeeper on day 1. I could not believe that a town Artanis[Xp] would do this. Since I did not believe it, I had to test out his claim. I originally thought just claiming jailkeeper would make him either rescind his silly claim or if he was mafia, give up the game. He did not do this however so I concluded that from his reactions and interactions around it his claim was pretty much sincere. This is when I decided to enact the second phase of my plan. 2) I switched my claim to doctor in order to garner reactions. Since I am town and I am pretty sure Artanis[Xp] is town then the unbelievable situation is that we have both a jailkeeper and a doctor. I don't think anybody would think this would be balanced. At least, I don't think it would in a small game such as this. So, since this was the case I left it open that there were 2 healing power roles. I did want to let everyone respond but a lot of people are just afk. No matter, this led to some very interesting reactions indeed:
The first of which is Justanothertownie. I think his reaction is by far the most sincere in the game. Posts like: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 10:52 justanothertownie wrote:
Going to bed. Anyone who is even considering not lynching Artanis has to explain all this:
First of all you have to explain why NaCl is scum because there is no way there are 2 protective roles in a 10 vs 3 setup with 1 mafia KP and normal roles but EVEN IF THAT IS NOT ENOUGH FOR YOU ON ITS OWN and you think for some reason it is possible to have a JK AND a doctor in the same game:
The situation is the following - you are Artanis a pretty good and experienced town player and you happened to role JK. Halfway into day1 nothing much happened so far and all of a sudden marvellosity who you townread and who you think is a really good player is attacking and voting you. You played a lot of games together. Do you either try to convince him that you are town/play the game or immediately feel the need to claim?
The answer is even if Artanis thinks he will potentially get lynched he will never claim his really powerful role without trying to avert the lynch otherwise before (and his stats show that he is really good at not being mislynched).
On the other hand if you are scum Artanis then you might think to yourself - "I will probably not be able to avoid being lynched" for whatever reason (maybe because town marvellosity set his sights on you). Artanis had some really weak scumgames. In THAT CASE claiming JK is pretty good. If noone counterclaims you will survive AT LEAST a day and be able to push an agenda. If you get counterclaimed you outed a really important role (if scum has a vigi getting rid of our protective role basically means they need one less mislynch for example) and in the worst case you just still get lynched. Maybe you even survive because people are idiots.
So town Artanis obviously did not claim because of being afraid. So why would he?
Artanis says he claimed because he thought he was outed by a dumb breadcrumb (which I think is HIGHLY unbelievable itself) he did which marv put emphasis on. So what do you do in this situation?
The answer is you never ever ever claim right away. What does town get from your outing? Nothing. If you think you absolutely need to claim for whatever reason you can still claim during the end of the night to avoid getting shot if scum happen to not know about you. By claiming you are destroying any chance of them not knowing for no real benefit.
If Artanis is town he acted incredibly stupid to a degree that is absolutely insane. I refuse to believe this and that he would not put any thought in how to play as one of towns most important and strong roles. The likelihood of him being mafia is much much higher. Add to this the claim by NaCl and we will absolutely lynch Artanis today. On June 06 2015 07:42 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I fail to believe any mini game would be so utterly awful at that kind of balance. I am quite content to get lynched first for the trade. We don't know what roles scum have. I'm not quite as convinced as you, more so because I see little reason for you to fakeclaim as scum here. Then again, Toad did do it in LX or whatever so I guess it's possible, but it seems unlikely. On June 06 2015 07:37 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 07:27 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Which ruse? I've already fully owned up to being bad. Are you going to be bad with me? Your claim is so utterly terrible it is mindblowing. I have no idea how you can think doing this is a good idea (at least as town) regardless of your role. I refuse to believe that you actually felt threatened by 1 fucking vote. I have not been trying to figure out the game? When I was in the thread I was basically the only one to do this at all. I wasn't feeling all that threatened, I just figured that scum would figure out the crumb I made anyway after marv pointed it out. On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. Then you're either scum or there's both a doc and jk in the game, which given it's a closed setup is possible. I'm not sure which to believe. I also don't believe you thought scum would catch on to your ridiculous "crumb". You are not this bad. I actually figured you already figured it out when you kept talking about how bad I looked yet never voted or actually pushed me. I don't doubt that a 3-player scumteam would figure it out themselves. Noone would ever make the connectionof lock = jail. Are you kidding me. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:40 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:38 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:37 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:35 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:33 NaCl`y wrote:On June 06 2015 07:32 NaCl`y wrote:
@Artanis
I think you know which ruse I am talking about.
I counterclaim jailkeeper. More specifically, doctor. Not jailkeeper. If this is a harcclaim we are 100 % lynching artanis. care to explain? I'm all ears. There are never both jk and doctor in the game. If the salty guy hardclaims we are lynching the shit out of artanis. In the worst case he trades 1:1 with mafia NaCl. So you're banking on lynching claims in a closed setup? Yeah, no. Yeah, yes. There are never ever both jk and doctor in a 13 player mini with scum having 1 KP. NEVER. His reactions and surprise and looking at claims while analysing which ones make sense or not is very towny of him. I am quite happy to add him to the town pile of Artanis[Xp] and Justanothertownie thus far.
prplhz is more of a toss up, I'm not sure what to believe really. His initial reaction to the claims seemed a skeptical but also as if they were not at the same time: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:58 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 07:55 NaCl`y wrote:
@Everyone
I do not believe there would simply be 2 protective roles in this game. I would like the input of others that have not said anything towards this, it would be appreciated. Are there likely to be 2 town protective roles? Could Artanis[Xp] be the mafia roleblocker fake claiming since they are notified and it would be a good cover for somebody that notoriously does not play as mafia? Until recently there couldn't be godfather, framer, miller, cop in same game but then suddenly there was a game with godfather, framer, miller, cop. So I'm not inclined to this setup speculation either. Honestly I haven't a clue what to make of these claims, I'm pretty horrible with claims. What I'm pretty certain of is that one of you claimers is a giant moron. post that give me pause are posts like: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:45 prplhz wrote:On June 06 2015 08:43 justanothertownie wrote:
Ok, tell me:
1) Why would scum NaCl counterclaim if they can shoot town artanis in the night?
2) How on earth does Artanis play make sense from a town pov? Do you think he is usually a pretty stupid guy? No but I just said, the narrative of him being town, having his crumb outed, being scum read by marvellosity (who will probably get his lynch d1) and then being all frustrated and martyring and hard claiming shit, that sort of fits. Do you think scum would have done all this if they could have avoided it? This is pretty extraordinary. combined with Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 09:30 prplhz wrote:
seriously artanis has never been mislynched and that's not because he pulls off shit like this in all his town games
it's the exact opposite He pretty much outlines reasons that Artanis[Xp] could be town while still saying that we should lynch him which is incredibly confusing, hence why I'm not sure about his alignment right now.
I actually think marvellosity is mafia in this game. He has had several overblown reactions that I don't think he'd have as town and his reaction to this double protective role claiming is very sub par for him. I don't think he'd ever agree with Justanothertownie's reasoning for voting Artanis[Xp] and then just blindly lynch fuba. Ever. The reactions that I am talking about are: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:28 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:26 marvellosity wrote:On June 06 2015 05:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. You are going to be so disappointed. then why did you claim? what possible motivation when you have a total of 1 vote on you? Because the thread was boring and I figured with the attention you gave to that part mafia would've certainly noticed and probably figured it out. This way at least everyone has the info. that's so bad. this is why i'm playing less and less. i can't handle the sort of nonsense yamato + artanis are pulling this game. i don't find it enjoyable. it's too bad for me to find enjoyable both Artanis[Xp] and Yamato77 were marvellosity's scum reads. Yet, when they did such utterly terrible things it garnered this reaction from marvellosity. Now, he's played quite a few games with Artanis[Xp] and from what I've seen he catches him if he is mafia quite regularly and has seen Artanis[Xp] claim things like mafia but lynched him anyway. This is a stupid claim and his initial reaction is frustration at stupidity but we find out later that marvellosity is STILL scum reading Artanis[Xp]. This, in tandem with his reaction to Yamato77 (his other scum read) seems very disingenuous. Now, getting to the part of the claims. I never expected marvellosity to just sit back on a lynch when there were 2 protective roles claimed in the thread. ESPECIALLY if one of them was his original scum read that has now been outed. However, his reactions are so meek that I can only conclude that this is a mafia marvellosity. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 05:23 marvellosity wrote:
There is absolutely no way a town Artanis claims jailkeeper for no reason here.
None.
He is scum. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 06:12 marvellosity wrote:
yeah i guess unless someone hard counterclaims you, that might be a good idea. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 19:56 marvellosity wrote:
Mig: the context is all in my posts, my patience levels are even lower than what they used to be, I have nothing further to add
what jat wrote is honestly quite convincing about artanis, probably because i kinda believe it myself. still, it's possibly a risky play i guess just to randomly claim when you could talk yourself out of it? still can't decide firmly
like i said last night, I find the idea that I found artanis, it happened to contain the word lock, and he made the best of it not unlikely
that said, my vote is probably on mafia with fuba anyway.
soooo......
Actually i went back and read what jat wrote again, still pretty convinced. i'd lynch either. He barely mentions the fact that there are 2 claims. He in fact ignores it. He bypasses this fact to then just talk about Artanis[Xp]'s reaction instead. However, it's as if he doesn't even care about it. He'd rather just sit back and lynch whoever instead of trying to figure things out. Fuba is such a cop out lynch and not something I think he'd be doing. Regardless his play this game can be surmised as: Overblown reactions to Artanis[Xp]'s stupidity and a fake reaction to Yamato77 and nothing. Also: Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 20:00 marvellosity wrote:
Does mafia KP = 1 mean KP is factional and leaves room for the possibility of a mafia vigi, or is it 1 maximum? I do not think he'd ever ask this question as town. I'm actually blown away that he'd ever ask this when he 100% knows it would never get answered. He has also now claimed inactivity excuses. I think he is mafia.
Yamato77 is another person that I think is likely to be mafia. Out of all the reactions he had me scratching my head the most. He seemed to instantly believe that both claims were entirely real and that Artanis[Xp]'s post was most definitely a breadcrumb and never listened to logic that dictated otherwise. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:00 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:57 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:53 yamato77 wrote:On June 06 2015 07:48 justanothertownie wrote:On June 06 2015 07:46 yamato77 wrote:
Okay, JAT, we'll make assumptions about a closed setup and then blame balance and stupid hosting postgame when you're wrong and you lynched a fucking protective role that wasn't even directly counterclaimed.
Why should I not believe Artanis' claim? And unless NaCl is literally suicidal, why the fuck would he do this as mafia? You need to answer these questions rather than just scream your assumptions in the thread. Yes, doing this would be suicidal as NaCl. That's why we are lynching Artanis who made a claim that as town made no fucking sense at all and outed a powerrole in the process. It makes a lot of sense if you believe he's just fucking mafia. The crumb is obvious, and not something I think scum Artanis does very often. Town Artanis feels pressured, town Artanis feels like his role is outed anyway, so he claims. Is it really such a difficult sequence of events to understand? If NaCl IS town and he IS doctor, he's a fucking idiot for "counterclaiming" in a closed setup in the first place. If you don't believe Artanis' claim, MAKE GOOD POINTS ABOUT IT, DON'T "COUNTERCLAIM" WITH A DIFFERENT ROLE THAN THE ONE BEING CLAIMED It's fucking asinine that you're going along with this as well. Is town JAT honestly this fucking stupid to want to lynch into obvious claims? It is literally irrelevant if NaCl is an idiot or not. Artanis claim makes 0 sense from a town pov. The crumb is not obvious at all. Look, Artanis shouldn't have claimed when he did, but the crumb is quite obviously a crumb in hindsight If you don't think it's a crumb now, I don't know what to tell you Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote:
Fine, JAT, obviously you don't listen to me, so you can have your way.
I will have no part in this lynch however. I don't think he ever pondered the possibility that one of the claims was false or otherwise. Artanis[Xp]'s breadcrumb did not look like a breadcrumb at all and was actually in a standard phrase that many people use in mafia so "in hindsight" it still doesn't look like a breadcrumb at all. I think he has shown that he is using too much information to make a read and that becomes very evident in this situation.
I think mig's reaction: + Show Spoiler +On June 06 2015 16:59 Mig wrote:Some stuff I noticed, marv/yam interaction looks a little forced to me. Marv has to have played with yam 50 times by now. Yam is like this every game, the marv blow up seems overly emotional. I have seen marv blow up before but this seemed a bit much considering yam was just being his usual yam self. Just something to keep in mind. Feast/artanis interaction - If either of artanis/feast are scum it is very unlikely that the other is also. The claim/counter claim/ artanis vote feast stuff is too random. Just a weird/unlikely series of interactions if the scum team planned out an artanis fake claim. I honestly have no idea if having 2 protection roles would be OP for town or not. If mafia has a rber it doesn't seem that outlandish to me. That being said I am fine with lynching artanis. I read through Noir mini mafia that he just played and I actually think artanis played well that game. Day1 of that game was about as useless as this day1 has been and he still managed to actually post some useful thoughts. So far today he has posted a paragraph on being a little suspicious of JTA and that's it. Along with that his story for why he claimed is meh. Alternating between claiming because he was bored and because marv mentioned his line with the word lock in it. It was fairly clear that marv wasn't even saying that it was a bread crumb just that artanis was giving superfluous commentary. Assuming that mafia would have figured out he was JK from that is retarded. Seems more likely that artanis is bsing. Show nested quote +On June 06 2015 07:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also as scum if this had happened I'd know I'd have been caught and just afk for the rest of the day. Self-meta and all but it's probably accurate. Kind of funny he said this, made a few more posts then disappeared for the rest of the day as well. Artanis if you are town give your reads, make a case etc. actually looks quite genuine and thought out, it shows that he's analytically looking at the alignments of the big event that happened in the game so far and did some background reading to make sure. His interactions points seem a bit too surface level though so a bit hesitant to add him to a town circle but definitely not in a scummy circle quite yet either.
This is getting a bit long and i'm not sure people are going to read it so for the sake of clarity
People I am happy with and think are probably town: Artanis[Xp], justanothertownie People that I am happy with: mig, possibly fuba for analysing peoples' reactions (not mentioned in long post sorry), Alakaslam People that I am ok with: prplhz People that I have no idea about: VayneAuthority (not mentioned but I don't really have a clue, didn't like his reactions though), Chezinu (ignored most of the game), FecalFeast, People I think are scum: Marvellosity, Yamato77, boxerfred (I read his past game where he was mafia and it looked very similar)
##unvote
##vote yamato77 He also reads me as scum - well AMA then, really don't want to make you think that. Since you refer to my last game for your statement, I'll say 2 things: a) 1 game of many to come is not indicative of how I play, neither as scum nor as town. It was my first game ever on TL mafia, even my first game ever in a forum. b) Can you please point out the parallels that you are seeing so scum boxerfred can get rid of them? Nah kidding. You don't need to explain the parallels to me as of now but before you start a train on me getting a mislynch, I want to have the reasoning behind it. Since town is supposed to find scum I'm not mad at you for pointing out things on me that look scummy. It's fine, go on. I just don't like marv jumping that train. He's just adding fuel to the fire. Shame I'm adding more fuel by myself already, I need to calm down. That's fine. It is a good reason to townread me. But if marv has the same thoughts about your posting than me then that itself cannot be scummy since I am town. Ok, so you claim he is only adding fuel to the fire. Maybe. But that's not all he is doing, right? He did not focus only on you. He made quite a few posts about mig for example. Do you think those posts are scummy too?
However, this is like the only post that gives a clear and big town indication.
Here is his most recent top lynch list:
On June 09 2015 01:31 justanothertownie wrote:
Hm.
Right now I would lynch into Fuba, chezinu and maybe boxerfred too. Pretty disappointing how lazy all those suspects are. FF and Migs recent absence is also annoying.
JAT, can you actually elaborate on why Fuba, why chezinu, why me? If I missed explaining posts in your filter, just quote them to me.
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On June 09 2015 18:25 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 15:42 prplhz wrote:
justanothertownie's d2 impact is extremely lacking considering that he's universally townread and he has an 11 page filter. Who does he event want to kill today? Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 15:57 Mig wrote:
What has JTA done this entire game? He is around constantly, but how many people have you seen him push to get lynched? The only person this entire game that JTA has been 100% gunho on lynching was artanis. Show nested quote +On June 09 2015 16:35 Fecalfeast wrote:On June 09 2015 16:11 prplhz wrote:
probably not gonna read assassination/aperture.
jta is interesting to me because he hasn't done much today even though showing on d1 that he wanted to lead town. then everybody town read him and poof.
would you lynch jta over chez today if you could have it your way? i tend to agree with this I have probably done more than all 3 of you clowns together. Just sayin.If you do not know who I want to kill you did not read my filter. If you think I need to be gungho about lynching anyone as town you are wrong. Assassination is not representative of my mafia play but we can ignore that because more importantly Aperture is DEFINITELY NOT representative of my town play. I even made that a point after the game that people should not meta read me comparing to that game. Mig is probably excused because he wasn't around for that but it is probably one of the worst games you could use to try and meta me. But what's even more disturbing is how you say that the sandroba quote is fitting my play this time around? Seriously? You think I have been angry or detached this game at all? Please.
What have you done besides the Artanis theory crafting?
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